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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Dying well
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HCH
Shipmate
# 14313
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Posted
In the thread on "Proclaiming healing", someone used the phrase "dying well". What does this mean to you?
To say someone died well, would you mean:
-- died in an adequate state of grace?
-- died having left affairs in order?
-- died without making a fuss?
-- died heroically?
-- died having done useful work that day?
-- died in bed surrounded by loved ones?
-- died kicking and screaming, trying to live longer?
Posts: 1540 | From: Illinois, USA | Registered: Nov 2008
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Jack o' the Green
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# 11091
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Posted
Dying with good preparation and wholistic care. In other words a chance to put practical affairs in order and say what needs to be said to friends and relatives. Good analgesia if needed, and whatever help and guidance I might need to face death with some level of acceptance.
Posts: 3121 | From: Lancashire, England | Registered: Feb 2006
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
Maintaining one's integrity as a human being. Which dementia doesn't fit....
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Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
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Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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Pyx_e
Quixotic Tilter
# 57
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Posted
It is my heart’s desire. To die well, longing to be with Him, to sing hymns to pray, to have given away all that this world has given me. To go home. Pray God.
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It is better to be Kind than right.
Posts: 9778 | From: The Dark Tower | Registered: May 2001
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Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081
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Posted
When I was in my mid-thirties I commented, to a roomful of fellow-pastors, that I wanted to "finish well". The room erupted in mirth at such a stupid ambition. I'm glad there are some people here who seem to think the same way as me.
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Let's remember that we are to build the Kingdom of God, not drive people away - pastor Frank Pomeroy
Posts: 17944 | From: 528491 | Registered: Jul 2002
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Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528
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Posted
Dang. Finishing well sounds like a very good goal to me. (It's one of mine, too)
Hadn't they ever read St. Paul?
[ 01. February 2014, 20:31: Message edited by: Lamb Chopped ]
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Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!
Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004
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agingjb
Shipmate
# 16555
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Posted
As someone who can scarcely claim to have lived well, and whose hope of salvation is entirely based on unmerited grace, I find it a little depressing that "fellow pastors" (none of my "fellows", BTW, are anything resembling pastors) could be indifferent to their or others end.
"On whatever sphere of being - The mind of a man may be intent - At the time of death": T.S.Eliot (quoting the Gita)
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Refraction Villanelles
Posts: 464 | From: Southern England | Registered: Jul 2011
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SvitlanaV2
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# 16967
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Posted
For the Victorians etc. I think it meant dying without fear, assured of divine grace, surrounded by their loved ones, and in their own bed. And fully conscious and aware of what was happening.
Today, I don't know. I'd like to die without fear and assured of divine grace, which are things I can work and pray for, but wanting the rest might be to hope too much. I don't mind dying in my sleep, but I don't expect to receive high quality care if or when I reach old age, so something else will probably carry me off first.
Posts: 6668 | From: UK | Registered: Feb 2012
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tessaB
Shipmate
# 8533
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Posted
Why not expect to receive high quality care? My father in law died 2 years ago. A lovely death. His wife had preceeded him by about 7 years, he had lung cancer but was pain free. After a short illness at home he went into hospital for about 2 weeks, when it was obvious there was no real need for him to be there (they could not help him and he was not in any medical need) he was transferred to a very nice nursing home near where his sons, myself and his grandchildren live. This was paid for by the NHS btw.
He saw all his family that was left over Christmas. A week after the new year his vicar gave him communion, he could respond to the service and prayers. The next day he slipped away with both his sons by his side.
In peace, in faith, pain-free and happy to be going to be with his God and the wife he had loved for over 50 years.
Please God such a death for myself and all I love ![[Votive]](graemlins/votive.gif)
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tessaB
eating chocolate to the glory of God
Holiday cottage near Rye
Posts: 1068 | From: U.K. | Registered: Sep 2004
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SvitlanaV2
Shipmate
# 16967
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Posted
I don't think there'll be much of an NHS left by the time I get old, and I won't have a lot of money, or younger family members living nearby who'll fight my corner for me or set me up in a granny flat.
When we talk about dying, these issues come into sharper focus. They're also beginning to influence my thinking on the kind of church community I should belong to, and where I should live.
Posts: 6668 | From: UK | Registered: Feb 2012
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Patdys
Iron Wannabe
RooK-Annoyer
# 9397
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Posted
I often talk about living well and dying well.
And that they are distinct and separate.
But both are designed to reduce suffering.
In living well, I include...
Finish unfinished business; have the conversations that need to be had. have the experiences that need to be had. Work on anything that may cause regret. As best able.
And cheat like crazy. Seriously. Cheat, cheat, cheat (if you wish)
Put a calendar in a room and that room becomes whatever date you set it to. Wedding anniversary in 6 months? Have your parties and get your diamond now (and if you're still alive in six months, ask for another).
Screw the wake- have your own celebration of your life now. And if you can only cope with 10 minutes, that is ok.
Too tired to swim with dugongs?, go on a dolphin cruise.
Can't walk in the bush. Get someone to push you in a wheelchair.
To me, living well is both addressing any symptoms, physical, emotional, social and spiritual as best able AND addressing goals and important things not yet done. There is peace in knowing that important things are taken care of.
It also includes a preparation for dying so that you know what you are likely to expect, and that friends and families will continue on afterwards.
Dying well is how I refer to a phase of life where the energy required to fight the disease/age etc, is more than the energy capacity of the person involved. You can see a physical slowing down, a running down. For some this is gradual process, for others, too damn quick.
Here, I encourage a letting go, for both the person dying and the family. An acknowledgement that we are all mortal and all will die and that despite the pain to us at your passing, we will let you go.
Symptom control is crucial*. And education. Both person and family need to know what they might expect, and how they can address each issue. And a safety net- who do I ring if it all turns to shit and i can't cope.
But the most important thing in dying well is knowing that you don't have to do it alone- either the person or the family.
This is never perfect. For we are not perfect. But it is in the attempt, the relationship, that we can demonstrate Christ and/or our humanity.
(Some people are really really hard. And relationships incredibly complex and/or damaged. We will and do fail in this at times. But our relationships are not ended with death. I believe we can express our grief, our sadness, our regrets, our anger after death and that is ok. I ask all to address these things early, but in my opinion, even with death, it is not too late).
* With the running down or slowing of the body and mind and running out of energy, there can be symptoms; confusion, agitation, breathlessness some pain etc depending upon the illness.
[ 01. February 2014, 22:05: Message edited by: Patdys ]
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Marathon run. Next Dream. Australian this time.
Posts: 3511 | Registered: Apr 2005
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Martin60
Shipmate
# 368
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Posted
What a PROPER thread. Excellent. With the demented, it's up to us to give the dignity they can't appreciate.
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Love wins
Posts: 17586 | From: Never Dobunni after all. Corieltauvi after all. Just moved to the capital. | Registered: Jun 2001
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jacobsen
seeker
# 14998
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Posted
MSBH, I wouldn't be too sure that the demented can't appreciate. I used to visit an old friend and teacher who had dementia, and who by the end could hardly string three words together. But when her half sentence failed her, she would get a look on her face which said quite clearly "Dammit, this is not working." There was awareness there at least some of the time. It has also been documented that music can bring people back to themselves and stir memory, at least in the early stages of dementia.
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But God, holding a candle, looks for all who wander, all who search. - Shifra Alon
Beauty fades, dumb is forever-Judge Judy
The man who made time, made plenty.
Posts: 8040 | From: Æbleskiver country | Registered: Aug 2009
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Huia
Shipmate
# 3473
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Posted
We had Dad's hospital room set up so his favourite music was playing. He seemed quite unaware until my sis-in-law change a CD mid stream when he made a loud noise of protest.
Huia
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Charity gives food from the table, Justice gives a place at the table.
Posts: 10382 | From: Te Wai Pounamu | Registered: Oct 2002
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Enoch
Shipmate
# 14322
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by SvitlanaV2:
For the Victorians etc. I think it meant dying without fear, assured of divine grace, surrounded by their loved ones, and in their own bed. And fully conscious and aware of what was happening. ...
Sounds good enough to me.
C S Lewis said somewhere that we should all pray for a good death, though I must admit I don't often remember to.
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Brexit wrexit - Sir Graham Watson
Posts: 7610 | From: Bristol UK(was European Green Capital 2015, now Ljubljana) | Registered: Nov 2008
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Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Enoch:
C S Lewis said somewhere that we should all pray for a good death, though I must admit I don't often remember to.
If God could provide a good and peaceful death He would grant one to all of us. To pick and choose who gets one would be unkind in the extreme.
As it is, He can't. Our bodies are designed to live, not die, which is probably a good thing overall.
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Garden. Room. Walk
Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008
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rolyn
Shipmate
# 16840
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Enoch:
C S Lewis said somewhere that we should all pray for a good death, though I must admit I don't often remember to.
'Holy Mary Mother of God , pray for us sinners now and in the hour of our death'.
I find this a handy little pray to use sometimes ,while driving or working . Don't suppose I have to be full-fledged RC to use it .
In a graveyard the other day, casting my eye over the stones, I pondered the finality of death and in a *ping* moment felt that all existence is like a river that keeps flowing . Our own death is merely to disappear into the river .
If I'm in a thinking state at the point of death then that simple thought will be dying well for me . We all hope there's no pain involved . If the Gethsemane account is anything to go by then I don't think Jesus was that keen on the idea of painful death either.
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Change is the only certainty of existence
Posts: 3206 | From: U.K. | Registered: Dec 2011
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Freddy
Shipmate
# 365
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Posted
I have been with many people when they died or when they were in the process of dying. It has helped me with my own perspective.
I think that most of us hope to die in a bed, surrounded by our loved ones. This is very common. But it is also very common for people to die with no one there - as if they waited for everyone to leave before setting off themselves.
One thing that I have noticed is that few people are at all concerned about their circumstances when they are dying. They just aren't relevant.
One of the nicest that I can remember is the death of a doctor who was one of the primary inventors of anti-depressants. He was on his death bed, but even a few hours before he actually died he was talking lucidly and calmly. Somehow in our conversation I made reference to "before he got sick", and he said "actually I don't think of myself as having gotten sick at all." There was a piano in the room and his daughter, a gifted musician, played his favorite piano sonatas as he passed away.
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"Consequently nothing is of greater importance to a person than knowing what the truth is." Swedenborg
Posts: 12845 | From: Bryn Athyn | Registered: Jun 2001
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Jack o' the Green
Shipmate
# 11091
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Posted
When I die, I want to go peacefully in my sleep like my Grandfather - not screaming in terror like his passengers.
Posts: 3121 | From: Lancashire, England | Registered: Feb 2006
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rolyn
Shipmate
# 16840
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Yonatan:
When I die, I want to go peacefully in my sleep like my Grandfather - not screaming in terror like his passengers.
Fell asleep behind the wheel of a tour coach in the Alps did he ?
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Change is the only certainty of existence
Posts: 3206 | From: U.K. | Registered: Dec 2011
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Martin60
Shipmate
# 368
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Posted
Rolyn. Convergence:
On the 'Proclaiming healing, as in the suspension of the laws of physics, is a lack of faith' thread, 01 February, 2014 22:44
"We need a Jesus pivot of the Trinity based Holy Mary Mother of God pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death. Amen"
Freddy. You are always worth it because of such gems in the ... substrate.
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Love wins
Posts: 17586 | From: Never Dobunni after all. Corieltauvi after all. Just moved to the capital. | Registered: Jun 2001
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Freddy
Shipmate
# 365
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Posted
Yonatan, I've been laughing all day at that.
Thanks, Martin.
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"Consequently nothing is of greater importance to a person than knowing what the truth is." Swedenborg
Posts: 12845 | From: Bryn Athyn | Registered: Jun 2001
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Stercus Tauri
Shipmate
# 16668
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Posted
The last words of Lady Mary Wortley Montagu, 1689-1762, are supposed to have been, "It has all been most interesting". I'd like to be able to leave the same way.
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Thay haif said. Quhat say thay, Lat thame say (George Keith, 5th Earl Marischal)
Posts: 905 | From: On the traditional lands of the Six Nations. | Registered: Sep 2011
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Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
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Posted
My Mum is in the process of dying.
I am very impressed with the end of life care given to her and all the family. She is at home and we never leave her alone. The drugs package covers all eventualities and the nurse is on call to administer them 24/7, if needed.
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Garden. Room. Walk
Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008
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Anyuta
Shipmate
# 14692
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Posted
from the Liturgy of St. John:
That we may complete the remaining time of our life in peace and repentance, let us ask of the Lord.
Choir: Grant this. O Lord.
--A Christian ending to our life, painless, blameless, peaceful, and a good defense before the dread judgment seat of Christ, let us ask of the Lord.
that's about it.
I want to go with dignity, without pain, peacefully, preferably after getting all my worldly affairs in order.
-- died in an adequate state of grace?
I don't get the whole "state of grace" thing in the RCC sense. I want to be able to say that my life was lived worthily, but that has nothing to do with a specific "state" I'm in at the moment of my death.
-- died having left affairs in order?
Yes, definitely that's part of it
-- died without making a fuss?
irrelevant. fuss or no fuss is not what makes it good, IMHO
-- died heroically?
I don't think dying heroically is a "good" death in this sense, although certainly it's better than many others.
-- died having done useful work that day?
that's nice, but not necessary
-- died in bed surrounded by loved ones?
definitely part of it, if it's possible
-- died kicking and screaming, trying to live longer?
I don't' think going kicking and screaming is a good death at all.
Posts: 764 | From: USA | Registered: Mar 2009
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HCH
Shipmate
# 14313
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Posted
In my original post, I did not intend that my list should be read as including all possible meanings of "die well" but simply as a starting point.
Some of the notions could be expanded. For instance, if one wants to leave one's affairs in order, does that refer to financial matters or to social matters? Is it more important to make a will or to make sure that all those you love are made aware of that fact?
Sometimes these decisions need to be made, as in the case of Evariste Galois, who was killed in a duel while quite young. He spent much of his last evening continuing his work in mathematics (and has been hailed ever since as a genius).
Posts: 1540 | From: Illinois, USA | Registered: Nov 2008
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L'organist
Shipmate
# 17338
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Posted
I suspect none of us will know if we've 'died well' until after the event - presumably too late to either confirm or deny the fact?
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Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet
Posts: 4950 | From: somewhere in England... | Registered: Sep 2012
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justlooking
Shipmate
# 12079
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Pyx_e:
It is my heart’s desire. To die well, longing to be with Him, to sing hymns to pray, to have given away all that this world has given me. To go home. Pray God.
Yes.
I felt something like this this once when attending a 'spirituality' training day. It was led by an Anglo-Catholic priest who was also one of those involved with the CofE's deliverance ministry. I can't remember much about what what he said but I can remember the deep sense of peace and the air of lightness about the building. It was a building I'd been to before for similar events but this time it felt different. Others commented on this too. I remember thinking that if I were to die right now it would be OK. On one level I knew it wouldn't be OK for many reasons but I felt in my soul a sense that that I would be going home, that Christ would be there and that I would always be me.
I believe in the immortality of the soul and in the resurrection of the body although I have no fixed idea of what this might mean. I hope to die with that sense of peace and of going home that I felt on that training day with that particular priest.
[ 05. February 2014, 15:58: Message edited by: justlooking ]
Posts: 2319 | From: thither and yon | Registered: Nov 2006
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Chorister
Completely Frocked
# 473
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Posted
Surely I can't be the only person who is filled with horror at the thought of nearing death, and dying, with everyone gathered around the bed looking at me? Maybe one very close person being there fairly regularly in case I need anything, but not the whole family!
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Retired, sitting back and watching others for a change.
Posts: 34626 | From: Cream Tealand | Registered: Jun 2001
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SvitlanaV2
Shipmate
# 16967
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by HCH:
If one wants to leave one's affairs in order, does that refer to financial matters or to social matters? Is it more important to make a will or to make sure that all those you love are made aware of that fact?
I understand that it makes things much simpler for all concerned if the deceased has made a will. Most people will agree with the importance of a will in theory, it's just that they put it off, get distracted by other things, find it too morbid to think about, etc. Or perhaps they simply don't care what the people left behind might have to go through to sort everything out.
I read recently that most British people make no plans at all for their funeral, and leave it all to their grieving family to make last-minute arrangements. I'm aware of the cultural distaste regarding any serious conversations to do with death, but I still think it's a shame, especially in people of an advanced age.
Posts: 6668 | From: UK | Registered: Feb 2012
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Adeodatus
Shipmate
# 4992
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Chorister:
Surely I can't be the only person who is filled with horror at the thought of nearing death, and dying, with everyone gathered around the bed looking at me? Maybe one very close person being there fairly regularly in case I need anything, but not the whole family!
You'd be amazed how many people actually want to die alone, or almost alone.
Interesting thread. At the hospital where I work we've been planning our local response to the demise of the Liverpool Care Pathway (a checklist and guidelines for care of the dying that was abandoned mostly - IMHO - because it turned out it wasn't being used properly). I'm heartened that hospital staff seem committed to raising important issues with patients before it's too late - making wills, inquiring about funeral arrangements and so on. They know that this kind of conversation is immensely difficult to have sometimes, but their idea of a good death is one where the patient and their priorities and choices are given utmost importance. There are lots of bad news stories about the NHS just now (no coincidence, by the way), but today I feel privileged to have spent some time with people whose respect for the dying person is beyond question.
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"What is broken, repair with gold."
Posts: 9779 | From: Manchester | Registered: Sep 2003
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Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Chorister:
Surely I can't be the only person who is filled with horror at the thought of nearing death, and dying, with everyone gathered around the bed looking at me? Maybe one very close person being there fairly regularly in case I need anything, but not the whole family!
You'd better let them know then!
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Garden. Room. Walk
Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008
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Nenya
Shipmate
# 16427
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by SvitlanaV2:
I read recently that most British people make no plans at all for their funeral, and leave it all to their grieving family to make last-minute arrangements. I'm aware of the cultural distaste regarding any serious conversations to do with death, but I still think it's a shame, especially in people of an advanced age.
I very much agree with this. My mum left very detailed instructions about her funeral so we were in no doubt about who she wanted to conduct it and which readings and hymns she wanted - even down to the detail that no one should go to the crematorium, we were all to go and have a party afterwards. This was in a sharp contrast to my brother who had died some months previously and left no such instructions so it was left to me and his partner to agonise over what he might have wanted.
My mum must have been one of the last people who was on the Liverpool Care Pathway. If it was being misused of course it needed reviewing but from what I saw it was respectful, gentle and deeply compassionate.
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They told me I was delusional. I nearly fell off my unicorn.
Posts: 1289 | Registered: May 2011
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Jane R
Shipmate
# 331
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Posted
Svitlana: quote:
Most people will agree with the importance of a will in theory, it's just that they put it off, get distracted by other things, find it too morbid to think about, etc. Or perhaps they simply don't care what the people left behind might have to go through to sort everything out.
If you have underage children it is vital to make a will, if only so that you can appoint a guardian in case you die before their 18th birthday. A former colleague was caught up in what turned out to be a rather nasty custody battle over her sister's child, orphaned as a result of a car crash. She was really the only member of the family in a good position to take care of another baby, but the grandparents on the other side of the family claimed custody as well. She did get custody in the end, but only after a lot of worry and expense and several nerve-wracking court hearings.
Making a will is not really the first thing on your mind when you're in New Parent Zombie mode, but it ought to be done... especially if you want to appoint a guardian from outside the family.
Posts: 3958 | From: Jorvik | Registered: May 2001
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Pyx_e
Quixotic Tilter
# 57
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Posted
Why are we (Christians) so passive in our approach? Why do we avoid it by worrying about practical details, wills and pain, and who will be there? St Francis went and lied down in the dirt, naked, reciting the psalms and holy poems.
Yes, I am afraid. Yes I struggle with the idea but when I do it feels like the struggle I always have with the world. He conquered sin and DEATH, I will go from gift to gift, from life to life. From faith in love to the full knowledge of love. Thank you Lord for today and thank you Lord for my eternity in you. I hope if and when I meet you the stories we shall share will be worthy of the gifts you gave me.
If faith is letting go of the trapeze and hoping God catches you, then everything is preparation and practise for that final letting go. Otherwise you just swing back and for ‘til you are left hanging by your finger nails. I want my final letting go to be accompanied by a enthusiastic “Geronimo!” not a soft plop into a hoped for safety net.
And this shall be our song as we go down to the grave Alleluia, Alleluia, Alleluia!
Fly Safe, Pyx_e
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It is better to be Kind than right.
Posts: 9778 | From: The Dark Tower | Registered: May 2001
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Jane R
Shipmate
# 331
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Posted
Pyx_e: quote:
I want my final letting go to be accompanied by a enthusiastic “Geronimo!” not a soft plop into a hoped for safety net.
![[Killing me]](graemlins/killingme.gif) That conjures up a wonderful image of a trapeze artist in spangled tights and a biker's helmet...
Posts: 3958 | From: Jorvik | Registered: May 2001
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Jane R
Shipmate
# 331
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Posted
quote:
And this shall be our song as we go down to the grave Alleluia, Alleluia, Alleluia!
...and funnily enough, that was the feeling we got in the hospice my father-in-law died in. You'd expect a hospice to be a depressing place, but there was a general air of 'The worst has happened and it's not as bad as we expected'. It was a far nicer place to be than the hospital.
It was still difficult, because he wasn't that old (mid-70s) and died after a fairly short illness, so we only had about six months to prepare ourselves. And we still miss him. But thanks to the hospice, he had a good death.
Posts: 3958 | From: Jorvik | Registered: May 2001
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Anyuta
Shipmate
# 14692
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Posted
I don't know if I want to go surrounded by my family, but I do want a chance to "say goodbye" to everyone. Not long before my Dad passed, we were visiting my parents for the holidays. when it was time to go home, and we were saying our goodbyes, I could tell that his goodbye with me was not a "
goodbye and I'll see you next time", but a more permanant "goodbye". it was so obvious to me, eve though he never said anything different than he would have normally. I recently was visiting an older friend with cancer, who is near the end of his life (doctors project weeks... although it's now been months). He also said godbye in that more final way. I want to be able to have that last goodbye with my loved ones.. not necessarily at the same time, and not necessarily AT my death. but knowing that its' coming soon, and a chance to really look at the person, hold them, think about their life interacting with mine, and the image of them I want to take to the beyond. If I've had that chance, I will think it a good death.
I dont' think it's a good vs bad (or not-good) issue. I think it's a spectrum, where some things make the death better and some make it worse. dying young.. worse. dying either suddenly and unexpectedly, somewhat worse (depending on situation), dying a lingering slow and painful death, definitely bad. but some aspects of any situation may be good and bad.. it's never going to be just one.
but if I had to choose just ONE aspect to determine the goodness of badness of my death, I would say having the chance to say a final goodby to my loved ones would be the thing that makes the difference.
and now I'm choking up thinking about this. ugh. I miss my Dad.
Posts: 764 | From: USA | Registered: Mar 2009
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la vie en rouge
Parisienne
# 10688
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Posted
I think setting your financial affairs in order is important to dying well. My flatmate’s mother died last year after being seriously ill with cancer for several years. The doctors had told her outright that she wouldn’t survive. Nonetheless when my flatmate had to sort out all the finances afterwards, it was clear that nothing had been set straight.
TBH, I think they were both in denial. For example, the family is originally from Guadeloupe and there was some debate in the family straight after she died about whether she would be buried back there or in Paris. Someone asked my flatmate if her mother had never expressed a preference about what she wanted. They had never discussed it. Not knowing what her mother wanted and having a huge financial mess to put in order made a distressing and painful situation even more difficult for her. Having died without making financial arrangements also made her passing extremely expensive for her surviving relatives, which caused additional anger and frustration.
Another decision that I made after seeing how distressed my flatmate was is that if I am ever that sick, I am going to make damn sure I have a DNR. It doesn’t make things any better for your relatives if their last memory of you is seeing you being ambulanced away wired up to a load of machines for a failed resuscitation.
OTOH, the experience has left me without a profound respect for my uncle, who died a few years back, also from inoperable cancer. Before the end, he put all his affairs in order, made sure his will was up to date and my aunt would be taken care of, even made all the arrangements for his own funeral (including choosing the hymns himself and leaving strict instructions that we were not to dress like “black crows”).
If I was in that position, I have no idea whether I would have the courage to face the reality of the thing straight on and make all those arrangements, or whether I wouldn’t deny it like my flatmate’s mum. I can’t judge her because I don’t know I wouldn’t do the same but I really hope that I would be able to leave my affairs in order. I don’t want to do that to my family.
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Rent my holiday home in the South of France
Posts: 3696 | Registered: Nov 2005
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Pyx_e
Quixotic Tilter
# 57
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Posted
If anyone can be arsed to have a funeral for me do what you like. Some jokes would be nice, and some Bob Dylan but honestly by that point I won't give a shit. Knock yourselves out.
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It is better to be Kind than right.
Posts: 9778 | From: The Dark Tower | Registered: May 2001
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Martin60
Shipmate
# 368
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Posted
Eeeeyoooooo! I wouldn't want to let go after you on the trapeze Pyx_e! In to the soft plop.
Superb by the way.
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Love wins
Posts: 17586 | From: Never Dobunni after all. Corieltauvi after all. Just moved to the capital. | Registered: Jun 2001
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SvitlanaV2
Shipmate
# 16967
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Pyx_e:
Why are we (Christians) so passive in our approach? Why do we avoid it by worrying about practical details, wills and pain, and who will be there? St Francis went and lied down in the dirt, naked, reciting the psalms and holy poems.
St. Francis had already sorted out his affairs, I imagine. Don't people have to do this when they enter religious orders? And I don't suppose he had much choice as to what kind of funeral he could have. Life was simpler for him.
Christians (including the clergy) are somewhat inconsistent when it comes to money, though. We don't like the smell of it, but our churches are institutions that need money to survive. Most of them are always short of money and always asking for more, so to imply that churchgoers shouldn't give any thought to money is disingenuous. I bet your church would find a nice legacy rather handy!
As for having lots of loved ones around my bed if I die in old age, I doubt it.
Posts: 6668 | From: UK | Registered: Feb 2012
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Pyx_e
Quixotic Tilter
# 57
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Posted
St Francis was surrounded by Knights on his death bed to stop people stealing his body, so you imagine wrong.
Thanks for including clergy in with the Christians. None taken.
And if all "dying well" means to Christians is sorting out the money we are all truly screwed. I'm spending most of mine on motorbikes, whatever is left I intend to waste.
Fly Safe,
Pyx_e
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It is better to be Kind than right.
Posts: 9778 | From: The Dark Tower | Registered: May 2001
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Chorister
Completely Frocked
# 473
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Posted
Pyx_e's last purchase. Burn, baby, burn!
I hope 'dying well' means being ready to go when you do go - spiritually and psychologically as well as materially. But I shouldn't think many people are calling out 'Wait, I haven't brought the washing in!' as Father Time hurries them off into the dark night. It's relationships with people that really matters.
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Retired, sitting back and watching others for a change.
Posts: 34626 | From: Cream Tealand | Registered: Jun 2001
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SvitlanaV2
Shipmate
# 16967
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Pyx_e:
St Francis was surrounded by Knights on his death bed to stop people stealing his body, so you imagine wrong.
So he has even less in common with us than I thought!
quote:
Thanks for including clergy in with the Christians. None taken.
I was probably more offended by your implication that the laity should die like monks. If we were all as poor as monks who would give the institutional church any money? Why are monks some kind of gold standard? I speak as someone who finds institutional church a problematic idea, and this is one of its most obvious problems: it swallows up money, yet despises it.
quote:
And if all "dying well" means to Christians is sorting out the money we are all truly screwed.
I'm not sure who said that sorting out money was all that should matter to dying Christians. As I said before, I simply think it's cruel to leave a financial mess for people in mourning to sort out. St. Francis solved that problem by not dying with any money whatsoever - but now you say he caused another headache by dying with a cult having grown up around him!!
In an earlier post I said I wanted to die in a state if grace with God. That's the most important thing to me. I'm unlikely to die with much money to speak of.
Posts: 6668 | From: UK | Registered: Feb 2012
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Jane R
Shipmate
# 331
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Posted
As you and la vie en rouge say, the point about setting your affairs in order is that dying intestate makes life very difficult and expensive for your heirs and may cause bad feeling in the family. I lost touch with that colleague I mentioned earlier, so I don't know if the two branches of her family were ever reconciled, but if they were it must have taken years.
St Francis would have set his affairs in order when he entered the monastery; he 'died to the world' then.
And it's not as if death is unexpected. Everyone dies, in the end.
[ 07. February 2014, 08:03: Message edited by: Jane R ]
Posts: 3958 | From: Jorvik | Registered: May 2001
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barrea
Shipmate
# 3211
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Posted
Everyone dies in the end yes, but that does not make it any easier.
When one is old as I am 87, next week the thought is always with you and you can't get away from it,
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Therefore having been justified by faith,we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.
Romans 5:1
Posts: 1050 | From: england | Registered: Aug 2002
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Pyx_e
Quixotic Tilter
# 57
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Posted
Well Happy Birthday! for next week. (just in case you don't make it.)
Fly Safe, Pyx_e
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It is better to be Kind than right.
Posts: 9778 | From: The Dark Tower | Registered: May 2001
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leo
Shipmate
# 1458
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Posted
A friend of mine died of liver cancer after 2 months warning. He was younger than me and an atheist.
He faced death with equanimity. I wondered if it was a front but it wasn't. He updated his will, said goodbye to his friends and family and said that he'd been lucky to enjoy 62 years of this life. After all, he might not have existed.
Sounds like a pretty good death to me and I am not surer that i would be so brave.
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My Jewish-positive lectionary blog is at http://recognisingjewishrootsinthelectionary.wordpress.com/
My reviews at http://layreadersbookreviews.wordpress.com
Posts: 23198 | From: Bristol | Registered: Oct 2001
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