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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Boycott £2 coins?
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leo
Shipmate
# 1458
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Posted
The Royal Mint's new £2 coins, by way of 'celebrating' the outbreak of World War one, have Lord Kitchener on the front (of whom it was said that he was better on a poster than in real life.)
Why not a coin than commemorates all who lost their lives.
I boycott stamps with a Christmas picture on them because we are a multi-faith society.
Should we boycott these new coins?
[ 04. January 2014, 14:10: Message edited by: leo ]
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My Jewish-positive lectionary blog is at http://recognisingjewishrootsinthelectionary.wordpress.com/
My reviews at http://layreadersbookreviews.wordpress.com
Posts: 23198 | From: Bristol | Registered: Oct 2001
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Albertus
Shipmate
# 13356
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Posted
Oh FFS. ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
If you get one and don't like it send it to me. In fact send me as many as you like. Of course, out of respect for your tender conscience, I won't stoop to validating these objectionable coins by sending you anything in return.
[ 04. January 2014, 14:13: Message edited by: Albertus ]
Posts: 6498 | From: Y Sowth | Registered: Jan 2008
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Zach82
Shipmate
# 3208
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Posted
So you'll what... give a lecture to any cashier or bank teller that gives you change you don't want?
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Don't give up yet, no, don't ever quit/ There's always a chance of a critical hit. Ghost Mice
Posts: 9148 | From: Boston, MA | Registered: Aug 2002
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Anglican't
Shipmate
# 15292
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Albertus:
If you get one and don't like it send it to me. In fact send me as many as you like. Of course, out of respect for your tender conscience, I won't stoop to validating these objectionable coins by sending you anything in return.
I'm happy to receive these too. Also, now that a second-class stamp is fifty pence, please feel free to send me any unused stamps that you can't bear to place on an envelope. Living as we do in an overwhelmingly Christian society, I've no objection to Christmas-themed stamps. Since I don't have a lot of spare cash at the moment, I'm happy to use a Christmas-themed stamp at any time of the year rather than buy a fresh book.
Posts: 3613 | From: London, England | Registered: Nov 2009
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daronmedway
Shipmate
# 3012
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by leo:
I boycott stamps with a Christmas picture on them because we are a multi-faith society.
Why?
Posts: 6976 | From: Southampton | Registered: Jul 2002
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Uncle Pete
Loyaute me lie
# 10422
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Posted
What an unbelievable OP! Money's money. Spare the lectures and ask for pound coins instead.
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Even more so than I was before
Posts: 20466 | From: No longer where I was | Registered: Sep 2005
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Firenze
Ordinary decent pagan
# 619
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Posted
Given how over-exposed, parodied and generally drained of meaning it has become, I'm surprised at the choice - I suspect they were going with 'iconic'.
I don't really think anyone proffering me change is in a position to influence design decisions in The Royal Mint. I can think of ways of generating a campaign against it, but introducing that little bit more hassle into the lives of shop assistants wouldn't be one of them.
Posts: 17302 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Jun 2001
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Jane R
Shipmate
# 331
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Posted
Or you could take each £2 coin with Kitchener's face on as a Sign that you should be more charitable, and give it away to the next beggar you see. They won't care whose face is on it as long as it's legal tender.
Posts: 3958 | From: Jorvik | Registered: May 2001
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hatless
Shipmate
# 3365
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Posted
Money has usually had nationalistic or jingoistic symbols on it. Roman coins might have the emperor with his foot on the neck of a foreign prisoner. Old British money often had Britannia. You generally see the monarch or the president. There might be a national flower, but that's about as mild as it gets. The face of Kitchener is, I agree, an unpleasant choice, but not surprising.
It's interesting that the person who campaigned for a woman to be depicted on a British bank note received death and rape threats on Twitter. There is some powerful symbolism here.
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My crazy theology in novel form
Posts: 4531 | From: Stinkers | Registered: Sep 2002
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leo
Shipmate
# 1458
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by hatless:
It's interesting that the person who campaigned for a woman to be depicted on a British bank note received death and rape threats on Twitter. There is some powerful symbolism here.
But our (I say 'our' because i had some minor involvement) campaign worked, didn't it?
That's why I am getting involved in a similar campaign on this issue.
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My Jewish-positive lectionary blog is at http://recognisingjewishrootsinthelectionary.wordpress.com/
My reviews at http://layreadersbookreviews.wordpress.com
Posts: 23198 | From: Bristol | Registered: Oct 2001
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Albertus
Shipmate
# 13356
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Posted
Hang on, leo old boy, shouldn't you be boycotting all coins? Look what it says on them- 'Fid. def.'- not very appropriate in a multi-faith society, is it?
Posts: 6498 | From: Y Sowth | Registered: Jan 2008
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leo
Shipmate
# 1458
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Albertus:
Oh FFS.
If you get one and don't like it send it to me. In fact send me as many as you like. Of course, out of respect for your tender conscience, I won't stoop to validating these objectionable coins by sending you anything in return.
Nothing to do with a 'tender conscience' but much to do about 'witness' and conscientizing - given the upsurge in protest against war, e.g. the Gulf War, I reckon as campaign here could make some important difference in what people take for granted.
The Church has much to say on this - remember how thatcher got annoyed when Archbishop Runcie didn't go along with the notion of a victory service after the Falklands War?
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My Jewish-positive lectionary blog is at http://recognisingjewishrootsinthelectionary.wordpress.com/
My reviews at http://layreadersbookreviews.wordpress.com
Posts: 23198 | From: Bristol | Registered: Oct 2001
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Anglican't
Shipmate
# 15292
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by hatless:
Old British money often had Britannia. You generally see the monarch or the president.
It does irk me that the female figure on British banknotes doesn't look like the Queen (I don't think so, anyway). The Canadians and Australians seem to do this much better. If we can't get it right I'd rather we reverted to Britannia. But of course this doesn't irk me so much that I refuse to accept banknotes.
Regarding stamps, I wonder whether Leo would refuse to use a stamp with a Buddhist or Moslem symbol on it?
Posts: 3613 | From: London, England | Registered: Nov 2009
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Albertus
Shipmate
# 13356
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Posted
Oh hang on, yes of course, there's the whole Queen's head thing, isn't there? I'm assuming leo isn't a republican, or he'd be in a real pickle- no stamps, no coins, only Scottish and Northern Irish banknotes.
Posts: 6498 | From: Y Sowth | Registered: Jan 2008
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hatless
Shipmate
# 3365
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Anglican't:
quote:
Originally posted by hatless:
Old British money often had Britannia. You generally see the monarch or the president.
It does irk me that the female figure on British banknotes doesn't look like the Queen (I don't think so, anyway). The Canadians and Australians seem to do this much better. If we can't get it right I'd rather we reverted to Britannia. But of course this doesn't irk me so much that I refuse to accept banknotes.
Which is right, though? The queen is now eighty seven and looks nothing like the face on our banknotes, but the stylised symbol is more real, I think.
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My crazy theology in novel form
Posts: 4531 | From: Stinkers | Registered: Sep 2002
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Anglican't
Shipmate
# 15292
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Albertus:
Oh hang on, yes of course, there's the whole Queen's head thing, isn't there? I'm assuming leo isn't a republican, or he'd be in a real pickle- no stamps, no coins, only Scottish and Northern Irish banknotes.
Or a socialist. He can't receive post from the Royal Mail but presumably can't receive post from any of its private sector rivals?
Posts: 3613 | From: London, England | Registered: Nov 2009
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Doc Tor
Deepest Red
# 9748
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Anglican't:
quote:
Originally posted by Albertus:
Oh hang on, yes of course, there's the whole Queen's head thing, isn't there? I'm assuming leo isn't a republican, or he'd be in a real pickle- no stamps, no coins, only Scottish and Northern Irish banknotes.
Or a socialist. He can't receive post from the Royal Mail but presumably can't receive post from any of its private sector rivals?
Oi. Some of us are perfectly sane.
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Forward the New Republic
Posts: 9131 | From: Ultima Thule | Registered: Jul 2005
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Anglican't
Shipmate
# 15292
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by hatless:
Which is right, though? The queen is now eighty seven and looks nothing like the face on our banknotes, but the stylised symbol is more real, I think.
When you say 'our' banknotes do you mean England? I'm afraid I don't think the portrait on British banknotes looks like the Queen at any point during her reign. I might well be in a minority here.
Posts: 3613 | From: London, England | Registered: Nov 2009
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Albertus
Shipmate
# 13356
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:
quote:
Originally posted by Anglican't:
quote:
Originally posted by Albertus:
Oh hang on, yes of course, there's the whole Queen's head thing, isn't there? I'm assuming leo isn't a republican, or he'd be in a real pickle- no stamps, no coins, only Scottish and Northern Irish banknotes.
Or a socialist. He can't receive post from the Royal Mail but presumably can't receive post from any of its private sector rivals?
Oi. Some of us are perfectly sane.
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
Posts: 6498 | From: Y Sowth | Registered: Jan 2008
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North East Quine
Curious beastie
# 13049
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Posted
I am willing to receive coins, banknotes etc from any republicans troubled by the Queen's image.
I'm also willing to accept Clydesdale Bank £20 notes from arachnophobes.
On a practical note, leo, how do you suggest this boycott should work? I signed the petition to have a woman on a banknote, but doing so didn't inconvenience anyone. It's easy to ask for ordinary stamps when buying stamps, and doesn't inconvenience the seller. Ask cashiers etc to sort through your change before handing it over is a whole different matter.
[ 04. January 2014, 15:36: Message edited by: North East Quine ]
Posts: 6414 | From: North East Scotland | Registered: Oct 2007
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Gill H
Shipmate
# 68
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Posted
Save them up and donate to an appropriate charity?
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Posts: 9313 | From: London | Registered: May 2001
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lily pad
Shipmate
# 11456
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Posted
This thread made me go look at our Canadian coins and I found this page that shows quite a lovely progression of the monarchs over the years and shows how Queen Elizabeth's image has aged.
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Sloppiness is not caring. Fussiness is caring about the wrong things. With thanks to Adeodatus!
Posts: 2468 | From: Truly Canadian | Registered: May 2006
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Firenze
Ordinary decent pagan
# 619
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Posted
I thought the point of a boycott was to lower demand for a product to the point of economic damage to the producer.
Can't see that happening with money.
Posts: 17302 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Jun 2001
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L'organist
Shipmate
# 17338
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Posted
Leo: conscientizing WTF?
Of course, as a retired teacher you can perhaps afford to boycott perfectly good money: those of us still working on till 66 + in the real world maybe can't afford such hyper-sensitive scruples.
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Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet
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L'organist
Shipmate
# 17338
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Posted
pydseybare
I think you'll find the average salesperson less than delighted if asked to exchange perfectly good coin(s) for other(s) of the same denomination.
And what about automated tills???
And Leo: if you're really so republican presumably you refuse to be a member of anything with a royal patron or with royal in the title?
So no National Trust, RSPCA, RSPB, etc...
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Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet
Posts: 4950 | From: somewhere in England... | Registered: Sep 2012
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Mudfrog
Shipmate
# 8116
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Posted
I think this must go down as the number 1 stupidist OP this year!
You don't buy Christmas stamps because we're in a multi-faith society? No we're not! We're in a Christian society with a small minority of adherents of other religions that are more or less conspicuous depending on the city you're in.
You don't want a £2 if it has Kitchener on it? Oh My Goodness how ridiculous.
These token gestures of mild outrage are utterly meaningless, entirely impotent and reveal the holder of such scruples to be just a little bit 'whiney' if you ask me.
Oh, and please give any evil £2 coins to The Salvation Army, we'll take money off any fool who wants to give it away!
[ 04. January 2014, 16:01: Message edited by: Mudfrog ]
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"The point of having an open mind, like having an open mouth, is to close it on something solid."
G.K. Chesterton
Posts: 8237 | From: North Yorkshire, UK | Registered: Jul 2004
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
quote:
pydseybare: In a similar way, a shop can refuse coins which they are not happy with (for example if they think they're fake).
I'm not sure about that. I had the impression that in most countries accepting the national currency is an obligation, not a choice. After all, the guarantee that people will accept it is where the value of a coin or note comes from.
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
Posts: 9474 | From: Brazil / Africa | Registered: Aug 2002
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by leo:
quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:
Leo: conscientizing WTF?
Liberation theology-speak for 'raising awareness'.
'fraid you haven't raised mine.
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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Albertus
Shipmate
# 13356
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by leo:
quote:
Originally posted by Albertus:
Oh hang on, yes of course, there's the whole Queen's head thing, isn't there? I'm assuming leo isn't a republican, or he'd be in a real pickle- no stamps, no coins, only Scottish and Northern Irish* banknotes.
Yes I am! Bugger - I hadn't thought of that!!!
Oh well, you obviously need to be conscientized, don't you?
*And of course those are no good if you object to Partition. I reckon cowrie shells or salt might be the way to go - so long, of course, as you can access them sustainably.
[ 04. January 2014, 16:06: Message edited by: Albertus ]
Posts: 6498 | From: Y Sowth | Registered: Jan 2008
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pydseybare
Shipmate
# 16184
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Mudfrog:
I think this must go down as the number 1 stupidist OP this year!
You don't buy Christmas stamps because we're in a multi-faith society? No we're not! We're in a Christian society with a small minority of adherents of other religions that are more or less conspicuous depending on the city you're in.
Most people are not Christians by any serious measure. Hence we cannot be a Christian society (and such a thing cannot logically exist anyway, given that a society cannot convert to Jesus).
quote:
You don't want a £2 if it has Kitchener on it? Oh My Goodness how ridiculous.
These token gestures of mild outrage are utterly meaningless, entirely impotent and reveal the holder of such scruples to be just a little bit 'whiney' if you ask me.
All boycotts can be claimed to be stupid and utterly meaningless. I dare say that the bus boycott was as easily dismissed by people who thought that it was fine for black women to be pushed around on buses. That's the thing with a boycott, you don't have to have a general poll to decide if it is the right thing to do, it is a conscience position.
quote:
Oh, and please give any evil £2 coins to The Salvation Army, we'll take money off any fool who wants to give it away!
There are no spare coins. There is nothing complicated with this idea.
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"If you act like an illiterate man, your learning will never stop... Being uneducated, you have no fear of the future."
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pydseybare
Shipmate
# 16184
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by LeRoc:
I'm not sure about that. I had the impression that in most countries accepting the national currency is an obligation, not a choice. After all, the guarantee that people will accept it is where the value of a coin or note comes from.
I don't know about other countries, but legal tender in the UK has a very specific meaning.
from the Royal Mint:
quote:
It does not mean that any ordinary transaction has to take place in legal tender or only within the amount denominated by the legislation. Both parties are free to agree to accept any form of payment whether legal tender or otherwise according to their wishes.
Nobody can force either party to accept the coins offered. Change is part of the transaction.
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"If you act like an illiterate man, your learning will never stop... Being uneducated, you have no fear of the future."
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Enoch
Shipmate
# 14322
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Posted
Contrary to the OP, I assume Lord Kitchener's picture will be on the back, with the Queen's on the front in the normal way. So one will continue to render the things that are Her Majesty's unto her, rather than be rendering them unto Lord Kitchener.
Noting our sigs, Leo if you want to get rid of any offending £2
coins, I can offer a facility to enable you to do so without even having to offend your republican sensibilities by using a stamp with the Queen's head on it to do so. If there are enough, I'll even come round and collect them.
As a Christian, in years where there has been a choice between proper Christmas stamps and ones with Santas, toys or other secular tat on them, I have deliberately bought the nativity ones. There are enough multi-faith and no-faith people around as it is. Being a Christian pips any commitment the government or any other secular body might want us to take on every time. The alternative would be like saying one supported the ordination of women because of the sex-discrimination legislation rather than because one believed it was the right thing for the Church of Jesus Christ to do.
[ 04. January 2014, 16:16: Message edited by: Enoch ]
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Brexit wrexit - Sir Graham Watson
Posts: 7610 | From: Bristol UK(was European Green Capital 2015, now Ljubljana) | Registered: Nov 2008
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Albertus
Shipmate
# 13356
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Enoch:
Contrary to the OP, I assume Lord Kitchener's picture will be on the back, with the Queen's on the front in the normal way.
I hope that Her Majesty is well guarded. AIUI country house guests of both sexes- admittedly rather younger ones than HM is now- used to be warned of the possible consequences of allowing His Lordship to get behind them.
Posts: 6498 | From: Y Sowth | Registered: Jan 2008
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fletcher christian
Mutinous Seadog
# 13919
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Posted
Posted by Leo:
quote:
I boycott stamps with a Christmas picture on them because we are a multi-faith society.
Lol, how is boycotting images of faith (regardless of what faith they happen to be) being a multi-faith society. It's like an inverted bigotry, utter crap.
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'God is love insaturable, love impossible to describe'
Staretz Silouan
Posts: 5235 | From: a prefecture | Registered: Jul 2008
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Zach82
Shipmate
# 3208
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Posted
What's convenient about this mission is that it gives you something to feel smug about without actually requiring any changes in your lifestyle.
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Don't give up yet, no, don't ever quit/ There's always a chance of a critical hit. Ghost Mice
Posts: 9148 | From: Boston, MA | Registered: Aug 2002
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EtymologicalEvangelical
Shipmate
# 15091
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by leo
I boycott stamps with a Christmas picture on them because we are a multi-faith society.
And I boycott people who wear red clothes, otherwise I would be discriminating against those who wear blue*.
In other words...
![[brick wall]](graemlins/brick_wall.gif)
* I'm not a Man City fan for nothing, ya know!
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You can argue with a man who says, 'Rice is unwholesome': but you neither can nor need argue with a man who says, 'Rice is unwholesome, but I'm not saying this is true'. CS Lewis
Posts: 3625 | From: South Coast of England | Registered: Sep 2009
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daronmedway
Shipmate
# 3012
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by leo:
quote:
Originally posted by daronmedway:
quote:
Originally posted by leo:
I boycott stamps with a Christmas picture on them because we are a multi-faith society.
Why?
My post says why.
Um, your post contains a massive non-sequitur?
Posts: 6976 | From: Southampton | Registered: Jul 2002
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
I don't have an oar in this dogfight, but it seems to me that ALL coins are defective. In my view all coins should have holes in them so we can string them on chains and wear them around our neck, ankles and wrists. Those who jingle loudly will convenience robbers and muggers, and cause increased safety for the rest of the population who are less weighted down.
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Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
\_(ツ)_/
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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Zach82
Shipmate
# 3208
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Posted
Who carries cash at all these days?
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Don't give up yet, no, don't ever quit/ There's always a chance of a critical hit. Ghost Mice
Posts: 9148 | From: Boston, MA | Registered: Aug 2002
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Spike
Mostly Harmless
# 36
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:
I think you'll find the average salesperson less than delighted if asked to exchange perfectly good coin(s) for other(s) of the same denomination.
That would also apply to other customers in the queue as you carefully go through your change to make sure you don't have an "incorrect" coin.
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"May you get to heaven before the devil knows you're dead" - Irish blessing
Posts: 12860 | From: The Valley of Crocuses | Registered: May 2001
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Leorning Cniht
Shipmate
# 17564
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by pydseybare:
Surely he/she only needs to refuse to accept change that contains the coin..
Now, that's an interesting question. Is the proffering of change by a merchant part of the initial negotiation over payment, in which case leo is free to refuse a £2 coin as part of his change (at the risk, of course, of the merchant telling him to sling his hook and take his business elsewhere) or is the proffering of change payment of a debt incurred by the merchant owing to leo's initial overpayment, in which case he is obliged to accept any form of legal tender in settlement of that debt.
I think the former is the case, but I'm not completely certain.
It's a relatively academic question, because businesses tend to want to satisfy reasonable requests made by their customers, and so (assuming there's adequate change in the till) leo is likely to be able to avoid receiving £2 coins in change.
However, I'm sure tempers will fly at some point during any such boycott, in which case the precise legal nature of change might be of relevance.
Posts: 5026 | From: USA | Registered: Feb 2013
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