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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Christian ministry is all about serving
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shadeson
Shipmate
# 17132
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Posted
On the BBC 'Sunday' program (16FEB2013, 08:05) the statement was made that “at the end of the day, Christian ministry is all about serving”.
I suppose its my background, but the quote sums up a worry that I have had for some time.
It seems that the whole of the work of the church today is seen as being a sort of backstop for the social services.
The list of efforts, almost a fashion, includes the running of food banks, credit unions, crèches for toddlers, running coffee bars etc. (Maybe this is a reason for the thread about Christianity becoming exhausting)
Our own minister says that our purpose is to be out there showing people 'the love of Jesus'.
I am a universalist and so I don't have a problem with all this, but the thought keeps knawing at me that something has been lost.
Possibly, that 'something' is about the power of Chritianity. The people who set up and grew the church were initially found then changed by a belief and faith.
I wonder if because the church has become so confused about what it should be teaching, that it keeps it mouth shut and just becomes the servant which, admittedly, Jesus taught His disciples to be.
Posts: 136 | From: uk | Registered: May 2012
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Raptor Eye
Shipmate
# 16649
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Posted
It certainly does seem as if the church is seen as a free social service by some. Is that a bad thing? Yes, if it leads to the idea that we should be competing with other voluntary organisations for 'contracts', for funding, and/or for status. Yes, if it leads to the idea that it is our raison d'être. Yes, if it means that we're forbidden to include Jesus in our language.
If the church is truly serving God first, it will be listening to and following the guidance of the Holy Spirit, who will lead people into individual and corporate service as is God's will: some will go out into mission, some into lives of prayer, some into specific service to the community, some into the struggle for justice, human rights, or peace, others will equip them for that, help build them up in the faith, bring people closer to God, etc.
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Be still, and know that I am God! Psalm 46.10
Posts: 4359 | From: The United Kingdom | Registered: Sep 2011
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Tulfes
Shipmate
# 18000
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Posted
I always find it strange when, as an outsider, I attend a church service and not a single soul can make the effort to lift their eyes, look me in the face and smile or say spmething , anything, to make the slightest connection with me. I might as well be walking on Oxford Street or travelling on the London tube.
Posts: 175 | Registered: Feb 2014
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seekingsister
Shipmate
# 17707
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Tulfes:
I always find it strange when, as an outsider, I attend a church service and not a single soul can make the effort to lift their eyes, look me in the face and smile or say spmething , anything, to make the slightest connection with me. I might as well be walking on Oxford Street or travelling on the London tube.
Maybe they have their own issues, and might need a smile or hello from you, not the other way around?
I'm also trying to imagine a church service where no one looks at you in the face - so no Communion, no coffee/tea table, no exchanging of the peace, no greeter on the door. What kind of church is this?
Posts: 1371 | From: London | Registered: May 2013
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Tulfes
Shipmate
# 18000
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Posted
Its difficult to smile at someone who doesn't look at you. It may not be deliberate of course, just distraction.
Posts: 175 | Registered: Feb 2014
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Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081
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Posted
Tulfes, welcome to the Ship!
Please make sure and read our Ten Commandments and board posting guidelines as you embark with us.
You can also to introduce yourself on the Welcome thread which is in All Saints, here.
Enjoy finding you way around!
Eutychus
Purgatory Host
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Let's remember that we are to build the Kingdom of God, not drive people away - pastor Frank Pomeroy
Posts: 17944 | From: 528491 | Registered: Jul 2002
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South Coast Kevin
Shipmate
# 16130
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Raptor Eye:
If the church is truly serving God first, it will be listening to and following the guidance of the Holy Spirit, who will lead people into individual and corporate service as is God's will: some will go out into mission, some into lives of prayer, some into specific service to the community, some into the struggle for justice, human rights, or peace, others will equip them for that, help build them up in the faith, bring people closer to God, etc.
Hear hear! I think it's wonderful that many Christians are involved in working to make this world a better place, both by setting up and running explicitly Christian-based activities (like a church pre-school or a debt advice centre) and by getting involved in secular services.
Of course, there are restrictions on Christians who are working in secular organisations and on Christian-ethos organisations that accept public funding. But someone working for, say, their local council's social services department will have loads of opportunities to demonstrate the power of God through the way they do their job, which might counterbalance those restrictions on how upfront they can be about their faith while interacting with clients / service users.
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My blog - wondering about Christianity in the 21st century, chess, music, politics and other bits and bobs.
Posts: 3309 | From: The south coast (of England) | Registered: Jan 2011
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Horseman Bree
Shipmate
# 5290
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Posted
I remember, from some years back, a comment on these boards about a lady who evangelised by example. Her demeanour was so attractive that the commenter wanted to ask how she became that way.
Only upon being approached did she so much as mention her Christianity, but the underlying basis of her visible contentment/happiness was her belief.
The sad part is that this is so rare - the visible happiness, I mean.
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It's Not That Simple
Posts: 5372 | From: more herring choker than bluenose | Registered: Dec 2003
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StevHep
Shipmate
# 17198
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Posted
It is one of those 'preach the gospel at all times and, if absolutely necessary, use words too' kind of questions. Service, when given for other than mercenary reasons, is really another word for love. The reason why we do things is as important as the things which we do. If you serve your neighbour because you love them as you love yourself is the most important thing to make clear why you love them or that you love them?
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My Blog Catholic Scot
http://catholicscot.blogspot.co.uk/
@stevhep on Twitter
Posts: 241 | From: Exeter | Registered: Jul 2012
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LutheranChik
Shipmate
# 9826
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Posted
As the old saying goes, work is love made visible.
I think the problem is not that churches these days emphasize good works (my own denomination's tag line these days is "God's work, our hands"), but that they often fail to articulate the why of their good works. We live in a very mean, graceless world, and indeed a lot of Christian churches tend to labor under a graceless theology. Good works done in Jesus' name speak to a different, Gospel understanding of God -- a God who loves us, means us well and reaches out to help us independently of any merit on our parts.
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Simul iustus et peccator
http://www.lutheranchiklworddiary.blogspot.com
Posts: 6462 | From: rural Michigan, USA | Registered: Jul 2005
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shadeson
Shipmate
# 17132
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Posted
StevHep quote:
The reason why we do things is as important as the things which we do
That still doesn't sound quite right to me. I thought the reason was more important. I mean what made Christianity different from the Lions Club (no disparagement intended) was its power to change people inside. Is this still understood today or have things moved on?
Posts: 136 | From: uk | Registered: May 2012
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leo
Shipmate
# 1458
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Posted
Christians 'serving' is becoming a way of covering upo for welfare expenditure cuts.
Setting up foodbanks may help Christians feel good and also make them think people will admire them and come and join in worship.
But while it is OK to bandage up the Good Samaritan, we ought to get to the root of the problem as to why the jericho Road is dangerous (to paraphrase something Andy Flannggan said on the programme).
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My Jewish-positive lectionary blog is at http://recognisingjewishrootsinthelectionary.wordpress.com/
My reviews at http://layreadersbookreviews.wordpress.com
Posts: 23198 | From: Bristol | Registered: Oct 2001
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Pyx_e
Quixotic Tilter
# 57
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Posted
I am your servant, but you are not my master.
Fly Save, Pyx_e
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It is better to be Kind than right.
Posts: 9778 | From: The Dark Tower | Registered: May 2001
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Hairy Biker
Shipmate
# 12086
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by seekingsister:
I'm also trying to imagine a church service where no one looks at you in the face - so no Communion, no coffee/tea table, no exchanging of the peace, no greeter on the door. What kind of church is this?
It is perfectly possible to give someone a hymn-book, shake their hand and say "peace be with you" or hand them a coffee without ever meeting their eyes. I see it every week. As for Communion - eye contact is very much frowned upon where I come from.
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there [are] four important things in life: religion, love, art and science. At their best, they’re all just tools to help you find a path through the darkness. None of them really work that well, but they help.
Damien Hirst
Posts: 683 | From: This Sceptred Isle | Registered: Nov 2006
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chris stiles
Shipmate
# 12641
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by leo:
Christians 'serving' is becoming a way of covering upo for welfare expenditure cuts.
Setting up foodbanks may help Christians feel good and also make them think people will admire them and come and join in worship.
I agree with your first sentiment leo - but I don't think that the fact that something is misconstrued is reason enough to stop doing it. Ideally we should be fighting against structural injustices at the same time as combating the side effects of them.
Posts: 4035 | From: Berkshire | Registered: May 2007
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Chorister
Completely Frocked
# 473
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Posted
There was a time when many services only happened because Christian people made them happen. An obvious case in point is free schooling. We moved from that to an expectation that the government would provide everything. Which now appears to be breaking down again. But there's a long way to go before it gets to the stage pre 20th century. I don't have a problem with the church being one of a range of providers (along with others in the voluntary sector) but would start wondering, if the government relied on them too much, what on earth they were spending all those taxes on!
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Retired, sitting back and watching others for a change.
Posts: 34626 | From: Cream Tealand | Registered: Jun 2001
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Jane R
Shipmate
# 331
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Posted
Chorister: quote:
I don't have a problem with the church being one of a range of providers (along with others in the voluntary sector) but would start wondering, if the government relied on them too much, what on earth they were spending all those taxes on!
Oh, I can answer that... here's an example of some pointy whizzy things that our "austerity" government is lavishing several billion pounds on...
Posts: 3958 | From: Jorvik | Registered: May 2001
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Hairy Biker
Shipmate
# 12086
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Chorister:
There was a time when many services only happened because Christian people made them happen. An obvious case in point is free schooling. We moved from that to an expectation that the government would provide everything. Which now appears to be breaking down again. But there's a long way to go before it gets to the stage pre 20th century. I don't have a problem with the church being one of a range of providers (along with others in the voluntary sector) but would start wondering, if the government relied on them too much, what on earth they were spending all those taxes on!
WE moved from the church providing these things to the government because we, as a society, realised how valuable those things are. We decided through our democratic process to provide them for the good of our society. Then we became complacent and wondered whether there was any such thing as society. And we all were able to read about how there was no such thing as society, precisely because that society that didn't exist had given us the skills to read in the first place.
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there [are] four important things in life: religion, love, art and science. At their best, they’re all just tools to help you find a path through the darkness. None of them really work that well, but they help.
Damien Hirst
Posts: 683 | From: This Sceptred Isle | Registered: Nov 2006
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Emendator Liturgia
Shipmate
# 17245
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Posted
Something I remind our people on a semi-regular basis:
'Remember that you may be the only Bible some people read… you may be the only Jesus some people see…' (and by now the mists of time have removed any memory of where I first read it or by whom, apart from the similar words of Francis of Asissi.)
Reminds us that serving and witnessing is more than simply proclaiming the good news - it is being the good news! How that is done is one of the discoveries of our pilgrimage.
Posts: 401 | From: Sydney, Australia | Registered: Jul 2012
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Marvin the Martian
Interplanetary
# 4360
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Hairy Biker:
Then we became complacent and wondered whether there was any such thing as society. And we all were able to read about how there was no such thing as society, precisely because that society that didn't exist had given us the skills to read in the first place.
Society <> Government
[ 18. February 2014, 08:46: Message edited by: Marvin the Martian ]
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Hail Gallaxhar
Posts: 30100 | From: Adrift on a sea of surreality | Registered: Apr 2003
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Ethne Alba
Shipmate
# 5804
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Posted
Won't even attempt to speak for any other food bank in the UK, but the one in our deanery was set up purely because a couple of Vicars (rooted in their community, so knowing full well the people concerned) were appalled at the depth of poverty afflicting people in the surrounding parishes.
Having half an eye on adding numbers to their pews was nowt to do with the reason for setting it up.
And yes, at the same time, the very same people are also involved in preventative and (small p) political action to sort the mayhem caused by some of the changes brought in of late.
Suppose I'm saying, that if the people hurting are the people around us, the people who we share community with, how can we not act?
Posts: 3126 | Registered: Apr 2004
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seekingsister
Shipmate
# 17707
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Hairy Biker:
It is perfectly possible to give someone a hymn-book, shake their hand and say "peace be with you" or hand them a coffee without ever meeting their eyes. I see it every week. As for Communion - eye contact is very much frowned upon where I come from.
That frankly sounds awful. It seems like it's some sort of cultural thing - eye contact being frowned upon - but it flies in the face of how we're expected to treat each other.
I hope you and the person who posted about their experience can find other places to worship - or perhaps take the lead and start engaging people yourselves!
The book of Acts says that people were drawn to the church because of how the Christians loved one another. Seems we need a refresher course on that.
Posts: 1371 | From: London | Registered: May 2013
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Tulfes
Shipmate
# 18000
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by seekingsister:
quote:
Originally posted by Hairy Biker:
It is perfectly possible to give someone a hymn-book, shake their hand and say "peace be with you" or hand them a coffee without ever meeting their eyes. I see it every week. As for Communion - eye contact is very much frowned upon where I come from.
That frankly sounds awful. It seems like it's some sort of cultural thing - eye contact being frowned upon - but it flies in the face of how we're expected to treat each other.
I hope you and the person who posted about their experience can find other places to worship - or perhaps take the lead and start engaging people yourselves!
The book of Acts says that people were drawn to the church because of how the Christians loved one another. Seems we need a refresher course on that.
Nothing to do, in my situation,with cultural practice of avoiding eye contact. Just any one or more of indifference, laziness, self-absorption. And I wonder why,as a newbie here, my experience is dismissed as a load of bollocks until supported by a regular. I suppose that is the regular experience of outside the culture.
Posts: 175 | Registered: Feb 2014
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Ethne Alba
Shipmate
# 5804
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Posted
(wouldn't read too much into it....we're mostly all ok on here once you get to know us)
Posts: 3126 | Registered: Apr 2004
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que sais-je
Shipmate
# 17185
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Tulfes:
And I wonder why,as a newbie here, my experience is dismissed as a load of bollocks until supported by a regular. I suppose that is the regular experience of outside the culture.
It's not about being a newbie nor is your experience bollocks. This is a place for discussion - and given the diversity of the Ship you can be fairly confident that someone will disagree with whatever you say.
Being ignored is worse - it would mean your opinion wasn't even worth disagreeing with!
So if someone out there would please at least disagree with me ...
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"controversies, disputes, and argumentations, both in philosophy and in divinity, if they meet with discreet and peaceable natures, do not infringe the laws of charity" (Thomas Browne)
Posts: 794 | From: here or there | Registered: Jun 2012
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seekingsister
Shipmate
# 17707
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Tulfes:
And I wonder why,as a newbie here, my experience is dismissed as a load of bollocks until supported by a regular. I suppose that is the regular experience of outside the culture.
I'm not dismissing your experience, but it sounds so utterly unlike any church service I've attended in recent years that I'm more surprised that it's happening.
Posts: 1371 | From: London | Registered: May 2013
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LutheranChik
Shipmate
# 9826
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Posted
Tulfes: What you're choosing to interpret as deliberate snubs may simply be, as in my case, a non-response based on my wondering what your comment had to do with the OP.
I've been in church atmospheres much like the one you describe; places where even when I tried initiating conversation myself I simply got a stare or terse, almost annoyed response in return.
But that's not what this thread is about. From what I can see, we're talking about the relative importance of service to our neighbor in the scheme of Christian discipleship; with a secondary lstream of conversation about the relationship between social services provided by the Church and those performed by government...what is a reasonable expectation in a civilized society of the relative duties of the two spheres.
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Simul iustus et peccator
http://www.lutheranchiklworddiary.blogspot.com
Posts: 6462 | From: rural Michigan, USA | Registered: Jul 2005
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
Might we be well to separate "church" and "Christian ministry". They are not at all the same thing.
"The only meaning in life is to serve others." Leo Tolstoy.
"Church" may variously serve others or serve itself. I see churches mostly worried about their viability.
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Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
\_(ツ)_/
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by seekingsister:
quote:
Originally posted by Tulfes:
And I wonder why,as a newbie here, my experience is dismissed as a load of bollocks until supported by a regular. I suppose that is the regular experience of outside the culture.
I'm not dismissing your experience, but it sounds so utterly unlike any church service I've attended in recent years that I'm more surprised that it's happening.
I think the point was that you appeared to be acknowledging it as real experience for Hairy Biker, whereas you did not acknowledge Tulfes' highly similar experience at all.
[ 18. February 2014, 14:07: Message edited by: Eutychus ]
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Let's remember that we are to build the Kingdom of God, not drive people away - pastor Frank Pomeroy
Posts: 17944 | From: 528491 | Registered: Jul 2002
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cliffdweller
Shipmate
# 13338
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Tulfes:
quote:
Originally posted by seekingsister:
quote:
Originally posted by Hairy Biker:
It is perfectly possible to give someone a hymn-book, shake their hand and say "peace be with you" or hand them a coffee without ever meeting their eyes. I see it every week. As for Communion - eye contact is very much frowned upon where I come from.
That frankly sounds awful. It seems like it's some sort of cultural thing - eye contact being frowned upon - but it flies in the face of how we're expected to treat each other.
Nothing to do, in my situation,with cultural practice of avoiding eye contact. Just any one or more of indifference, laziness, self-absorption. And I wonder why,as a newbie here, my experience is dismissed as a load of bollocks until supported by a regular. I suppose that is the regular experience of outside the culture.
I don't know why you jump to the conclusion that the lack of eye contact w/in your faith community has nothing to do with culture and everything to do with self-absorption. You may be right, but I personally find it very difficult to read other people's minds and know intuitively their motives. Honestly, it does seem like you have a tendency to read too much into other people's actions.
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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner
Posts: 11242 | From: a small canyon overlooking the city | Registered: Jan 2008
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seekingsister
Shipmate
# 17707
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Eutychus:
I think the point was that you appeared to be acknowledging it as real experience for Hairy Biker, whereas you did not acknowledge Tulfes' highly similar experience at all.
I don't see them as similar. Hairy Biker said that where he/she is from, eye contact during Communion is frowned upon. That's a pretty specific comment and I have no reason to believe it to be false.
Tulfes said he/she goes into churches as a visitor and no one makes any effort to make eye contract or be friendly. That's a very general and sweeping statement, and it happens to go against my experience, so I am surprised to hear it. It would be easier perhaps for me to understand the point if there was more context.
Posts: 1371 | From: London | Registered: May 2013
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Eliab
Shipmate
# 9153
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Tulfes:
And I wonder why,as a newbie here, my experience is dismissed as a load of bollocks until supported by a regular. I suppose that is the regular experience of outside the culture.
Welcome Tulfes,
Eutychus has pointed you to the Welcome thread in All Saints. You might also like to note that the Styx board exists for discussion of Ship of Fools' business and the Hell board is there for if you feel slighted by another member and want to criticise them in turn. This is to keep personal conflicts our of threads meant to be for serious discussion. You probably want to keep out of Hell until you've found your feet here, but that's where complaints about someone else's perceived discourtesy belong.
I would guess, though, that from time to time we've all written posts we thought honest, insightful, wise, witty and inspired, and seen them sink without trace. It's almost never personal.
Eliab
Purgatory Host
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"Perhaps there is poetic beauty in the abstract ideas of justice or fairness, but I doubt if many lawyers are moved by it"
Richard Dawkins
Posts: 4619 | From: Hampton, Middlesex, UK | Registered: Mar 2005
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Hairy Biker
Shipmate
# 12086
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by seekingsister:
quote:
Originally posted by Eutychus:
I think the point was that you appeared to be acknowledging it as real experience for Hairy Biker, whereas you did not acknowledge Tulfes' highly similar experience at all.
I don't see them as similar. Hairy Biker said that where he/she is from, eye contact during Communion is frowned upon. That's a pretty specific comment and I have no reason to believe it to be false.
I believe it to be fairly common in high Anglican circles - we could head over to Eccles to discuss that one. But it always strikes me as weird when people offer a hand shake and a word of "peace" without actually looking at you.
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there [are] four important things in life: religion, love, art and science. At their best, they’re all just tools to help you find a path through the darkness. None of them really work that well, but they help.
Damien Hirst
Posts: 683 | From: This Sceptred Isle | Registered: Nov 2006
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Martin60
Shipmate
# 368
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Posted
Doing stuff is being something. Doing is the reason. We are supposed to be the ultimate social service doing something Social Services can never do.
Love.
Although Social Services can be done lovingly of course.
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Love wins
Posts: 17586 | From: Never Dobunni after all. Corieltauvi after all. Just moved to the capital. | Registered: Jun 2001
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Beeswax Altar
Shipmate
# 11644
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Posted
My parish is heavily involved in outreach to the local community particularly the poor and the addiction recovery community. Our ministry to the poor mainly takes the form of a once a week lunch available to all who come. In addition to the meal, we try to give away toiletries and other essentials not readily available. Lately, we've started making showers available to those who need them.
Our ministry to the recovery community is mostly passive. One of the main things we do is let 12 step groups use our buildings for meetings almost every day. Many churches do that. We do more than that and more than most but the extra that we do is also passive.
We've noticed that fewer and fewer people are attending the 12 step meetings. I was in the building for a vestry meeting when somebody from on of the 12 step meetings came early for one of the meetings. We started talking. She appreciated our making the building available. I said we've noticed a downturn in the number of people attending the meetings. She informed me that people were going to a charismatic-evangelical church devoted to entirely to addiction recovery but she didn't like it. I told her that we were discerning as a congregation if we needed to stay as focused on outreach to the recovery community if the need was being better met by somebody else. She said, "Well, why don't you start a meeting like the charismatic-evangelical church."
I thought to myself, "Because we are Episcopalians we don't do that sort of thing." I also thought to myself, "And that's the problem." What we believe and what we do on Sunday morning has no bearing on what we do the rest of the week. We know that we are Christians and Christians go to church on Sunday and do outreach. So, we do. The charismatic-evangelical church actually connects their faith and worship with outreach. Their worship is outreach because they believe in a God who can and will change lives.
Last Fall, I attended a conference with other priests under the 40. At night while having a few beers, one of my old seminary classmates, a politically very liberal, African-American female, in her late 20's went on a rant. She could at least identify where those conservative Christians are coming from. Yeah, some of them don't believe she should be a priest. Sure, she stotally disagree with them on gay and lesbian issues. Some of them even believe the world is 6,000 years old. But, you know what, at least they really believe in Jesus. She concluded that she was starting to think she had more in common with conservative Christians than her fellow liberals.
She isn't alone. Many mainline moderates, myself included, feel the same way. I keep thinking of Peter telling the blind man at the temple, "Silver and gold have I none but such as I do have give I to thee." I'm not sure most of us in the mainline church believe we have anything to offer other than silver and gold. If we do, we are very reluctant to share it less we risk offending somebody. The people at the charismatic-evangelical parish aren't one bit reluctant about sharing their faith. The result is people flocking to their meeting. Is some of the theology potentially dangerous? Of course it is. However, when we leave evangelism to them, who do we have to blame but ourselves?
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Losing sleep is something you want to avoid, if possible.
-Og: King of Bashan
Posts: 8411 | From: By a large lake | Registered: Jul 2006
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Beeswax Altar
Shipmate
# 11644
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by StevHep:
It is one of those 'preach the gospel at all times and, if absolutely necessary, use words too' kind of questions. Service, when given for other than mercenary reasons, is really another word for love. The reason why we do things is as important as the things which we do. If you serve your neighbour because you love them as you love yourself is the most important thing to make clear why you love them or that you love them?
Yeah, we mainliners love to quote St. Francis. St. Francis used words when he went to the Middle East with the intention of converting Saladin and upon finding him dead preached instead to Al-Kamil his successor. Most of those quoting St. Francis would consider such an action to be bigoted. Couldn't St. Francis stick to selling all his stuff and talking to animals?
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Losing sleep is something you want to avoid, if possible.
-Og: King of Bashan
Posts: 8411 | From: By a large lake | Registered: Jul 2006
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South Coast Kevin
Shipmate
# 16130
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Posted
Respect, Beeswax Altar. Your last-but-one post couldn't have been easy to write... ![[Votive]](graemlins/votive.gif)
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My blog - wondering about Christianity in the 21st century, chess, music, politics and other bits and bobs.
Posts: 3309 | From: The south coast (of England) | Registered: Jan 2011
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Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081
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Posted
Seconded. Just watch out you don't collide with me heading the other way ![[Biased]](wink.gif)
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Let's remember that we are to build the Kingdom of God, not drive people away - pastor Frank Pomeroy
Posts: 17944 | From: 528491 | Registered: Jul 2002
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Mudfrog
Shipmate
# 8116
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Posted
It's not a new thing - the 7 deacons in Acts were specifically charged to 'run a food bank'. The church has always run hospitals, fed the hungry, clothed the naked and educated children.
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"The point of having an open mind, like having an open mouth, is to close it on something solid."
G.K. Chesterton
Posts: 8237 | From: North Yorkshire, UK | Registered: Jul 2004
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