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» Ship of Fools   »   » Oblivion   » Michael Vaughan - a second-rate Geoffrey Boycott

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Source: (consider it) Thread: Michael Vaughan - a second-rate Geoffrey Boycott
Erroneous Monk
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Michael Vaughan says Jonathan Trott must accept team-mates and opponents will feel he did a runner

I don't care if Michael Vaughan feels conned. Unless any of us happen to be moonlighting as Jonathan Trott's psychiatrist, we don't know what his diagnosis is, how severely he is affected and what treatment he is undergoing. I wouldn't want to comment myself on whether he is or isn't ill, and whether his under-performance is or isn't caused by his illness.

However it is typical of the misunderstanding of and prejudice against sufferers from mental illnesses that lots of people (450+ commenters on the article) think that they *are* in a position to have a view.

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And I shot a man in Tesco, just to watch him die.

Posts: 2950 | From: I cannot tell you, for you are not a friar | Registered: Jan 2006  |  IP: Logged
Sioni Sais
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I've been waiting for this thread and I agree with what EM says except that it is a slur on Geoffrey Boycott.

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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"

(Paul Sinha, BBC)

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lilBuddha
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First, never read the comment section. It is for trolls and idiots.
Second, Vaughan is not dissing mental illness. If anything, it was Trott's disrespect for mental illness that set Vaughan off.
In a post-departure interview, Trott used terms such as nutcase and crazy. And Trott said he was not stressed, merely burnt out. Regardless, the interview seemed designed to segue Trott from the disabled list to playable.
Vaughan is correct to question, though not to diagnose.
Really, though, he is using what Trott himself said.
Though I am not diagnosing, I agree that it appears Trott abused the system to his own ends.

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Hallellou, hallellou

Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008  |  IP: Logged
Erroneous Monk
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quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:

Second, Vaughan is not dissing mental illness. If anything, it was Trott's disrespect for mental illness that set Vaughan off.
...
Vaughan is correct to question, though not to diagnose.

I agree that there are two sides to this, and certainly Trott didn't make any friends with the way he referred to mental illness (though isn't that, in itself, evidence of the stigma associated with it?) but is Vaughan correct to question?

Would he get an opinion piece in a broadsheet speculating about a player's physical health?

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And I shot a man in Tesco, just to watch him die.

Posts: 2950 | From: I cannot tell you, for you are not a friar | Registered: Jan 2006  |  IP: Logged
lilBuddha
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quote:
Originally posted by Erroneous Monk:
but is Vaughan correct to question?

Yes. The system should be protected. Both from those who would not see it used and from those who abuse it.
quote:
Originally posted by Erroneous Monk:

Would he get an opinion piece in a broadsheet speculating about a player's physical health?

Um, yes. It's kind if his job now. Broadcasting and such.

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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou

Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008  |  IP: Logged
Sioni Sais
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I look at it this way. Jonathan Trott has never been great 'on mike', except of course when things are going well. No one on earth is good in interviews and the like when they are mentally ill. Using the "wrong words" when you're ill is no surprise.

If anyone needs to be cut some slack, it's Trott, not Vaughan. Had he ever suggested that Graham Thorpe and Michael Atherton didn't really have bad backs (which contributed to their retirements), then the reaction would have been different. Moreeover, he would had more reason to feel "conned" as he was a team mate. He has no reason to feel "conned" now.

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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"

(Paul Sinha, BBC)

Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
Erroneous Monk
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quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:

quote:
Originally posted by Erroneous Monk:

Would he get an opinion piece in a broadsheet speculating about a player's physical health?

Um, yes. It's kind if his job now. Broadcasting and such.
As Sioni Sais says, has he written lots of opinion pieces about players affected by physical injury then? And speculated about whether their bad backs/dodgy knees/sprained fingers really are that bad, or whether they're just shit at cricket?

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And I shot a man in Tesco, just to watch him die.

Posts: 2950 | From: I cannot tell you, for you are not a friar | Registered: Jan 2006  |  IP: Logged
lilBuddha
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Fair enough. I admit to not being a great fan of cricket and not following Michael Vaughan's commentaries. From this pair of interview and commentary I judged and perhaps should not have.
It does not wholly excuse Trott for his language regardless, though perhaps it is understandable.
The qualification implied by the italics is not casting doubt, but merely not knowing.

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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou

Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008  |  IP: Logged
L'organist
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I think we should wait and see if Mike Brearley comments.

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Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet

Posts: 4950 | From: somewhere in England... | Registered: Sep 2012  |  IP: Logged
Marvin the Martian

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quote:
Originally posted by Erroneous Monk:
As Sioni Sais says, has he written lots of opinion pieces about players affected by physical injury then? And speculated about whether their bad backs/dodgy knees/sprained fingers really are that bad, or whether they're just shit at cricket?

If any of them had done an interview saying "I didn't really have a bad back/dodgy knee - it was just burnout due to poor form. I'm not a cripple", then yes I think he would have.

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Hail Gallaxhar

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quetzalcoatl
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I'm not sure if anyone is saying that burn-out is not a mental thing, but I'm pretty sure that it is. In fact, it is often linked with depression, although not synonymous with it.

I suppose Vaughan is trying to separate playing badly, from burn-out, from depression, but in reality, they can be going on simultaneously. I don't think an outsider can really diagnose this in someone else, either.

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I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.

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