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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Landry has two mommies, so he can just fuck off
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
A Montessori school in Texas refused admittance to a three-year-old boy because he is the child of a Lesbian couple.
Is there no low to which people will not stoop to extend their judgmentalism and hatred against LGBTQ people? What the hell did little Landry do? He can't help who his parents are. This is twisted and sick.
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lilBuddha
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# 14333
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Posted
No, no, not sick. Just Good Christian Belief©
Tossers. Apparently Virginia doesn't wish to be outdone by Texas.
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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Porridge
Shipmate
# 15405
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Posted
A fundie Christian outfit doing this -- esp. in Texas -- appalls, but doesn't surprise, me. I thought Montessori schools were meant to be a-religious.
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Spiggott: Everything I've ever told you is a lie, including that.
Moon: Including what?
Spiggott: That everything I've ever told you is a lie.
Moon: That's not true!
Posts: 3925 | From: Upper right corner | Registered: Jan 2010
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
Quoting from the article you post, lilBuddha:
quote:
"God has made her female and her dress and behavior need to follow suit with her God-ordained identity."
I had no idea that God specified exactly how females should dress and behave. I wonder which book that was in? I've read all of them (except the end of Sirach because it's SO FUCKING BORING), and I don't remember seeing anything about which precise styles of clothing count as female and which count as male.
Of course in modern western societies, there are no articles of clothing that are socially acceptable for males but not for females. None I can think of, anyway. I wonder if this school has a behavior code which specifies which things are girly and which boyish. I hope she doesn't play with Tonka™ Toys, since everybody knows Tonka™ Toys are made for boys. Maybe her Legos™ aren't pink? Can I kick these human-excuses in the goolies?
ETA:
quote:
Originally posted by Porridge:
A fundie Christian outfit doing this -- esp. in Texas -- appalls, but doesn't surprise, me. I thought Montessori schools were meant to be a-religious.
One wonders what Maria Montessori would think?
[ 30. March 2014, 23:45: Message edited by: mousethief ]
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Dubious Thomas
Shipmate
# 10144
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Posted
Two of the states where Black kids used to be turned away from schools. Coincidence?
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שפך חמתך אל־הגוים אשר לא־ידעוך
Psalm 79:6
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Gee D
Shipmate
# 13815
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Posted
Basically I agree, Mousethief, except for your sentence He can't help who his parents are. That suggest to me that there is something wrong with his parents.
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Not every Anglican in Sydney is Sydney Anglican
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Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Dubious Thomas:
Two of the states where Black kids used to be turned away from schools. Coincidence?
Nope.
It will be many years before they arrive in the 21st century.
![[Frown]](frown.gif)
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Garden. Room. Walk
Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008
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lilBuddha
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# 14333
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Posted
Hopefully it will still be the 21st century when they do.
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
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Posted
I see the girl in Virginia cut her hair to donate for cancer patients' wigs. What in the name of all that's holy gets into these people? And what an effective disguise for the Anti-Christ, should one happen to believe in that scenario.
Mind you, the hair thing has crept in over the years without any religious pressure over here. Short hair is very rare in younger female people.
Posts: 5833 | Registered: May 2009
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gee D:
Basically I agree, Mousethief, except for your sentence He can't help who his parents are. That suggest to me that there is something wrong with his parents.
True, and I certainly did not mean that; sorry I was clumsy and didn't more fully explicate myself. I meant to be showing that even from this benighted woman's point of view, wherein little Landry's parents were the vilest of sinners, that's not Landry's fault and she had no call taking it out on him. Using a child to punish its parents is pretty despicable as things go.
quote:
Originally posted by Penny S:
I see the girl in Virginia cut her hair to donate for cancer patients' wigs. What in the name of all that's holy gets into these people? And what an effective disguise for the Anti-Christ, should one happen to believe in that scenario.
Exactly this. If we do get a literal Antichrist, in the form of an evil being who leads the world astray, you would not be amiss to put money on his/it being a staunch supporter of socially conservative Christian prejudices. "To fool the very elect."
quote:
Originally posted by Penny S:
Mind you, the hair thing has crept in over the years without any religious pressure over here. Short hair is very rare in younger female people.
I'm thinking that their reaction in this case has to do with the popular image (accurate or not) of the "butch" Lesbian with military-short hair. A guilty-by-association thing, perhaps.
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Dubious Thomas
Shipmate
# 10144
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
I'm thinking that their reaction in this case has to do with the popular image (accurate or not) of the "butch" Lesbian with military-short hair. A guilty-by-association thing, perhaps.
As everyone knows, THIS WOMAN with very short hair is a militant lesbian! Don't let those ear rings and the make-up fool you!
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שפך חמתך אל־הגוים אשר לא־ידעוך
Psalm 79:6
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Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
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Posted
And I was thinking of the shift from it being normal for girls to have short hair of various styles - and girls to be told by their mothers that they couldn't grow their hair, for all sorts of sensible reasons involving tangles, absence of hair driers, nits, time taken plaiting it and so on. Now we have girls being told by their mothers that they can't have it cut, and some mothers are even opposed to their daughters having it styled in ways that make it safe to take part in PE or swimming. No plaits. It's got to be loose. I think it's part of the pink business. And very non-religious commercial moves to prepare girls for a future as eye candy. (The Exclusive Brethren girls were always like it, of course.)
It can't be the hairdressers...
For plaits, read braids.
[ 31. March 2014, 16:56: Message edited by: Penny S ]
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Penny S:
And very non-religious commercial moves to prepare girls for a future as eye candy.
Ouch. Good point. And evidence of a deeply disordered society.
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Porridge
Shipmate
# 15405
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Posted
Don't religion-run schools ever get afflicted with lice? It's quite common in public elementary (primary) schools here, and one common response for kids with lots of hair, especially of the tightly-springy type, is to cut it off close to the scalp, making it easier to deal with the nits.
I suppose Real Christians (TM) Don't Get Lice.
[ 31. March 2014, 19:53: Message edited by: Porridge ]
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Spiggott: Everything I've ever told you is a lie, including that.
Moon: Including what?
Spiggott: That everything I've ever told you is a lie.
Moon: That's not true!
Posts: 3925 | From: Upper right corner | Registered: Jan 2010
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Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
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Posted
I originally thought the hair thing was geographic. I went to school, and initially taught in South East Kent - Folkestone and Dover. Mostly short hair. I moved to North West Kent, where the hair was mostly long. However, the only adults with long hair tended to be Brethren. But it has grown as those girls grew, and is now general.
When I recall how much work my hair took when it was long (ish - it never grew as long as I wanted) and how I would wake after a night in the pub with my nose full of the smell of other people's ciggies (obviously no longer an issue), I can't see the attraction. I can see how the imposition of the time (and money - hair straighteners, products to make it look fuller, bouncier and so on) spent on hair management contributes to the amount of time which can't be spent on useful activities. (And that goes for companies which insist on women wearing makeup in their dress code, too.) But I'm not convinced that any MCP has consciously thought that out as part of the patriarchal conspiracy to keep women in their place.
(I, now retired, use the time gained for lolling about like a teenager. Must do better.)
[ 01. April 2014, 09:20: Message edited by: Penny S ]
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Pomona
Shipmate
# 17175
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Posted
I have long hair - because I like the look of it, and also because my hair grows quickly and keeping it short costs a lot in terms of visiting the hairdresser (I really don't trust myself to trim it myself!). You can also do a lot with long hair in terms of styles.
However when I was at primary school, my hair was kept shorter (shoulder length) and usually tied back unless it was cut shorter. Plaits and ponytails were the norm, though short hair wasn't particularly usual. As has been said, the only girls with very long hair were the Exclusive Brethren girls, though they usually had it in a long plait. This was in Coventry in the mid 90s btw.
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Consider the work of God: Who is able to straighten what he has bent? [Ecclesiastes 7:13]
Posts: 5319 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2012
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Horseman Bree
Shipmate
# 5290
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Posted
IOW, hair fashions cycle through the variations and then recycle
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It's Not That Simple
Posts: 5372 | From: more herring choker than bluenose | Registered: Dec 2003
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Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
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Posted
You can do things with long hair if you have the sort of long hair that you can do things with. Mine is fine and slippery, and doesn't like being "up". And attempts to pull it back flat in the manner of Eva Peron leads to lots of odd loops like solar prominences sticking up through the top layer. And I couldn't get the opposite sides, when page boy length, to curl up in the same direction.
People should be allowed to do with their hair what they want to do with their hair, consistent with what that hair has within it to do. Same as other parts of them. Whether involving others or not. To get back on point.
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Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Dubious Thomas:
Two of the states where Black kids used to be turned away from schools. Coincidence?
This has led to a thought - taken together with a piece on Woman's Hour this morning about intersectionality, with an American academic, about discrimination against black women. She made the point about America's history with racial discrimination.
It occurred to me that this connection between the areas where there was initially slavery, then serious discrimination against black people, and those where girls are to be girls, and homosexuality is strongly argued against is definitely not a coincidence. (I exclude Uganda here, after reading a piece from a gay Ugandan in the Guardian last weekend - the prejudice is definitely due to an incomer from one of those states.)
If the louder churches in those areas developed with a style of belief in which people's self worth was predicated on being born better than others, initially those under the curse of Ham, then what is happening with women's status and homosexuals fits in with that. And in the case of homosexuals, there is the advantage of it being possible (thought obviously not truthfully) to believe that it is a choice. It has become impossible to act as if the curse of Ham can be reflected in society, and is becoming impossible to discriminate against those born wit the curse of Eve. But homosexuality, if it is chosen, well, we are obviously better than they are.
Forgetting about whose prayers are most aceptable to God. If they have been brought up with that sort of mind set, it's going to be difficult to break out of it.
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quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740
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Posted
Very interesting analysis of the correlation between different forms of bigotry.
Also I notice quite a lot of comment today that gays are an ideal target, as they are not numerous really; whereas, say, divorced people are fairly numerous, and not noticeably absent in Christian churches. Therefore to start targeting divorce as a great sin might be unwise; but gays are ideal as a target, although of course, they do tend to pop up in awkward places, e.g. your own family.
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I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.
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Dubious Thomas
Shipmate
# 10144
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by quetzalcoatl:
Very interesting analysis of the correlation between different forms of bigotry.
Also I notice quite a lot of comment today that gays are an ideal target, as they are not numerous really; whereas, say, divorced people are fairly numerous, and not noticeably absent in Christian churches. Therefore to start targeting divorce as a great sin might be unwise; but gays are ideal as a target, although of course, they do tend to pop up in awkward places, e.g. your own family.
In the reader discussion on the article, "In Praise of Evangelical Identity", some comment authors are arguing back at this point by asserting what I'll paraphrase this way: "Actually, many evangelical churches treat divorced people like crap just as much as they treat gay people like crap! So, actually, they're consistently faithful in their authoritarian works righteousness!"
Here's one "choice" comment from a proud evangelical: quote:
As I said, there are many churches ... that treat divorce quite seriously and would call a person likely a non-believer if they get divorced for most reasons.
Yup! That's right. Get divorced and you're a "non-believer"! ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
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שפך חמתך אל־הגוים אשר לא־ידעוך
Psalm 79:6
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quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740
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Posted
I'm very relieved to hear it; it irked me that bigotry could be so inconsistent, or should I say, non-intersectional.
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I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.
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stonespring
Shipmate
# 15530
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by quetzalcoatl:
Very interesting analysis of the correlation between different forms of bigotry.
Also I notice quite a lot of comment today that gays are an ideal target, as they are not numerous really; whereas, say, divorced people are fairly numerous, and not noticeably absent in Christian churches. Therefore to start targeting divorce as a great sin might be unwise; but gays are ideal as a target, although of course, they do tend to pop up in awkward places, e.g. your own family.
Also as I said in another thread "out" gay couples who behave like straight couples in public are visible in their deviance from traditional sexual norms in a way that a couple of remarried divorced persons is not. Even unmarried cohabiting couples are not as visible of a deviation if people just don't look at people's ring fingers and don't ask questions. Out gay couples enrage some people because they "dare" to behave in public like they have nothing to hide or be ashamed of. Unmarried and divorced straight couples have already been able to do this for decades, and a lot of conservatives have gotten used to it even if they don't like it. Actually, the greater threat that people perceive from homosexuality has done a lot to deflect the attention of conservatives and put non-traditional straight couples off the hook in a way that they definitely would not have been 100 years ago.
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Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
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Posted
A bit of further thought on predicating one's religious position on comparison with other lesser souls, with no connection with any of the dead horses mentioned above - I think. A church near where a friend lives had a visitation of the Toronto blessing. And the congregation was split, between the blessed ones and the rest, who felt that they were now not seen as full members.
We seem very prone to "God, I thank you that I am like this humble publican and not like that Pharisee..."
[ 02. April 2014, 19:49: Message edited by: Penny S ]
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The Silent Acolyte
Shipmate
# 1158
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Posted
quote:
Landry has two mommies, so he can just fuck off
![[Killing me]](graemlins/killingme.gif)
Despite winning my semi-annual emoticon, I gotta say, mousethief, that I'm shocked, shocked, that you slap Sirach like that. Some of the best stuff in the bible is in those last bits!
[ 04. April 2014, 02:44: Message edited by: The Silent Acolyte ]
Posts: 7462 | From: The New World | Registered: Aug 2001
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by The Silent Acolyte:
quote:
Landry has two mommies, so he can just fuck off
Despite winning my semi-annual emoticon, I gotta say, mousethief, that I'm shocked, shocked, that you slap Sirach like that. Some of the best stuff in the bible is in those last bits!
I've never made it to the last bits. I get about 27,000 chapters in and give up.
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Palimpsest
Shipmate
# 16772
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Posted
Never mind Landry; the whole troop can fuck off.
There's a church in Seattle with scout troop with a Gay Leader who has been doing the job for some time. Thanks to the Boy Scouts of America, Boy scout troop loses charter over Gay leader
It makes a pleasant advance that the church and the troop have decided to part ways with the Boy Scouts of America rather than kick him out. But think of the message it sends gay kids who are newly tolerated as scouts until they are adults. They might get the impression you can be gay and "morally straight".
Posts: 2990 | From: Seattle WA. US | Registered: Nov 2011
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Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
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Posted
Could they establish a link with another national Scouts group? Canada, maybe? Or be direct offshoots of the international organistaion? Presumably they would no longer be entitled to take part in international jamborees at the moment.
I see the BSA is trying to wheedle the parents to move the boys elsewhere, which I suppose they think of as a correct response to de-authorising this troop.
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Net Spinster
Shipmate
# 16058
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Penny S:
Could they establish a link with another national Scouts group? Canada, maybe? Or be direct offshoots of the international organistaion? Presumably they would no longer be entitled to take part in international jamborees at the moment.
I see the BSA is trying to wheedle the parents to move the boys elsewhere, which I suppose they think of as a correct response to de-authorising this troop.
Well not a 'Scout' group since the Boy Scouts of America have a monopoly on the word (odd monopoly in that the Girl Scouts share in it [there was a spat over it back in the 1920s but the Girl Scouts were able to hold on to it]). In addition the international organization only recognizes one national scouting organization per country [in a few cases there are more than one but they form a federation and it is the federation that the international organization recognizes). Foreign Scouting groups are allowed but only for foreigners (e.g., I believe a Canadian Scout troop is based in the D.C. embassy but only non-Americans allowed as members). There are other similar organizations but most are either more conservative (e.g., the group that formed when the BSA allowed gay youth) or co-ed (which this troop might be fine with). None have anywhere near the resources of the BSA (Campfire would be the closest [other than the Girl Scouts but they are single sex for the other sex]).
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spinner of webs
Posts: 1093 | From: San Francisco Bay area | Registered: Dec 2010
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stonespring
Shipmate
# 15530
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Posted
Will International Scouting become like the Anglican Communion with competing jurisdictions because Dead Horse issues?
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Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
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Posted
I think International Scouting ought to have a think of their own about this.
And I begin to understand why an organisation had to be invented for "Up".
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Palimpsest
Shipmate
# 16772
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Posted
I suspect the current Boy Scouts "compromise" position will eventually crumple of embarrassment, as did their prohibition against gay youth. Are they seriously going to have a leave-taking ceremony for openly gay boys who have been through scouting? If you're looking for dead horse analogies, it seems more like the Women can be priests but not bishops position in the Anglican Church. It doesn't seem like a stable position.
It's probably simpler for the troop to simply roll their own than spend a lot of time trying to become outposts of foreign scouting. I could see a cross gender outreach. Perhaps the Girl Scouts will sponsor a mixed gender troop with a gay scoutmaster.
Posts: 2990 | From: Seattle WA. US | Registered: Nov 2011
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Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Palimpsest:
I suspect the current Boy Scouts "compromise" position will eventually crumple of embarrassment, as did their prohibition against gay youth. Are they seriously going to have a leave-taking ceremony for openly gay boys who have been through scouting? If you're looking for dead horse analogies, it seems more like the Women can be priests but not bishops position in the Anglican Church. It doesn't seem like a stable position.
It's probably simpler for the troop to simply roll their own than spend a lot of time trying to become outposts of foreign scouting. I could see a cross gender outreach. Perhaps the Girl Scouts will sponsor a mixed gender troop with a gay scoutmaster.
I think you are probably right, sadly, since a local decision would cut the boys off from global connections, which is why I was faffing about flying links.
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Jane R
Shipmate
# 331
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Posted
Palimpsest: quote:
Perhaps the Girl Scouts will sponsor a mixed gender troop with a gay scoutmaster.
Great idea! The Guide/Girl Scout movement has Depraved Sex badges* and everything, according to a previous Hell thread opened by someone - not a Guide - who objected to the removal of the clause 'to love my God' from the Guide Promise. I am sure they'd be very happy, once they'd got over the anger of being rejected by BSA. And it would be nicely ironic, since the original Girl Scouts wanted to be part of the (Boy) Scouts and were fobbed off with a separate organisation.
(declaration of interest here: former Guide and proud holder of the Depraved Sex badge - aka Hostess/Party Planner).
Posts: 3958 | From: Jorvik | Registered: May 2001
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Leorning Cniht
Shipmate
# 17564
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Palimpsest:
I could see a cross gender outreach. Perhaps the Girl Scouts will sponsor a mixed gender troop with a gay scoutmaster.
The Girl Scouts are very much oriented around "Girl" rather than "Scout". Pretty much every piece of literature they produce is about empowering women, feminism, equality, body image and the like, and almost none of it is about tying knots, pitching tents and lighting fires. I think the chance of Girl Scouts going mixed is zero.
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Palimpsest
Shipmate
# 16772
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Posted
That's probably the case. There is a mixed gender group called Adventure Scouts but I don't know how real or prevalent they are.
Posts: 2990 | From: Seattle WA. US | Registered: Nov 2011
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Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
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Posted
That looks good - and it also looks as if it is a deliberate response to the other version as it emphasises, over and over again, that it is inclusive and non-discriminatory, and that no
one will be made to feel that they are not good enough to be a Scout. The FAQ show that they are a part of worldwide Scouting.
Hey, if were over there, I would join.
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Jane R
Shipmate
# 331
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Posted
Leorning Cniht: quote:
Pretty much every piece of literature they produce is about empowering women, feminism, equality, body image and the like, and almost none of it is about tying knots, pitching tents and lighting fires.
Possibly, but they still do the knots and camping - or at least the companies I was involved with both as a Guide and a Guide Leader did. Maybe things are different in the USA. Or my information is out of date (quite likely; I haven't been a leader for over 10 years and missed most of the panic over cyberbullying and internet porn).
If they ever did decide to go co-ed it is more likely that they'd just merge with the Scouts.
I like the sound of the Adventure Scouts, though.
Posts: 3958 | From: Jorvik | Registered: May 2001
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Palimpsest
Shipmate
# 16772
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Jane R:
If they ever did decide to go co-ed it is more likely that they'd just merge with the Scouts.
That assumes the Boy Scouts shared their decision. Given that the Boy Scouts is lead by a group containing a lot of Mormons I think it's going to take them a lot longer to get there. They're still working on the role of young women as missionaries.
[ 25. April 2014, 01:55: Message edited by: Palimpsest ]
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Jane R
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# 331
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Posted
Palimpsest: quote:
Given that the Boy Scouts is lead by a group containing a lot of Mormons I think it's going to take them a lot longer to get there.
Things are very different in the USA. There aren't many Mormons in the UK.
I don't think it's very likely that the worldwide movements will merge anyway - even if the American Mormons didn't object, most of the Muslim companies would.
Posts: 3958 | From: Jorvik | Registered: May 2001
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The5thMary
Shipmate
# 12953
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Dubious Thomas:
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
I'm thinking that their reaction in this case has to do with the popular image (accurate or not) of the "butch" Lesbian with military-short hair. A guilty-by-association thing, perhaps.
As everyone knows, THIS WOMAN with very short hair is a militant lesbian! Don't let those ear rings and the make-up fool you!
Oh, jeez! HOW did you know I have secret sexual fantasies about Joyce Meyer? Ooops! Not so secret anymore, is it.
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God gave me my face but She let me pick my nose.
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