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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: God spoke to me today!
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PDA
Apprentice
# 16531
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Posted
Ever hear this at the beginning of a preach?
Have any of you guys ever had the pleasure?
I havent and whenever I hear it in a church I always want to jump out of my seat and demand to know :
1)What exactly where you doing at the time? was it before or after cornflakes?
2)What accent did he have ? English? Espanol ? Patwah ?
3)Why didnt you record it and play it to us?
Dont get me wrong I sometimes feel guided by God in various ways but the way this seams to be presented in many churches I have been to is to almost separate the Pastor/Rev/Preacher/Evangelist or whatever from the congregation to make the latter feel that the person standing before them is almost Christlike in their relationship with God and get to converse with him and deliver messages and without them we simply wouldnt get the important memos handed out via the anointed.
The last time I heard this in church was the pastors wife who had apparently spoken to God that morning and he had told her that she should hijack her husbands sermon and tell us what a good parent she is, it was cringe worthy.
(I call this pastors wife syndrome, when pastor lets his wife takeover things she is not suitable for just because she is his wife , some of the worst singers i have ever heard in my life have been wives of church leaders simply because nobody thinks its appropriate to say "your singing isnt good enough to be the lead singer and have a microphone but you can sing as much as you like with the rest of the congregation where you cant ruin worship for everybody".
[ 07. July 2014, 12:54: Message edited by: PDA ]
Posts: 40 | From: Essex | Registered: Jul 2011
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Adeodatus
Shipmate
# 4992
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Posted
Sorry to kick off the thread on a cynical note, but to me this usually means "I'm going to lay down the law with you lot and claim God's authority so you can't argue with me." It's a manipulative and abusive trick, and I long for the day when a voice comes from heaven saying, "No I bloody didn't!"
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"What is broken, repair with gold."
Posts: 9779 | From: Manchester | Registered: Sep 2003
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Alan Cresswell
Mad Scientist 先生
# 31
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Posted
My first thought would be, why were you waiting until this morning before thinking about what to preach?
When preparing a sermon, I wouldn't say I've ever heard God speak but after reading the texts a few times there's usually a point or two that seem to stand out from the text around which I can work to write a sermon, pick the hymns, prepare a childrens address, write some prayers etc. But, that's a lot more time than the morning before I walk into the pulpit.
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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.
Posts: 32413 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001
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PDA
Apprentice
# 16531
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Adeodatus:
Sorry to kick off the thread on a cynical note, but to me this usually means "I'm going to lay down the law with you lot and claim God's authority so you can't argue with me." It's a manipulative and abusive trick, and I long for the day when a voice comes from heaven saying, "No I bloody didn't!"
I found this post more sensible than cynical.
Posts: 40 | From: Essex | Registered: Jul 2011
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Adeodatus
Shipmate
# 4992
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gwai:
If we need to know that you think it's from God before we care, I doubly doubt whether it's from God.
Indeed. A preacher saying, "God spoke to me," always sounds a bit too much like someone saying, "Trust me, I'm a politician."
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"What is broken, repair with gold."
Posts: 9779 | From: Manchester | Registered: Sep 2003
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Gamaliel
Shipmate
# 812
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Posted
I get criticised for over-using this phrase, but it's a case of 'over-egging the pudding.'
I have no problem with someone saying, 'As I was reading such and such a passage I was struck by ... etc' Or, 'It strikes me that such and such is an important point in this passage ...'
But to claim that God 'spoke' to them about it immediately raises it above contradiction or challenge.
Without putting too fine a point on it, the preacher is almost invariably talking bollocks if he - and it's usually a he - descends to as manipulative a tactic as this.
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Let us with a gladsome mind
Praise the Lord for He is kind.
http://philthebard.blogspot.com
Posts: 15997 | From: Cheshire, UK | Registered: Jul 2001
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Raptor Eye
Shipmate
# 16649
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Posted
I haven't heard it used in those terms, but I have heard the words ' the Holy Spirit is giving me something to say other than what I prepared' as the minister came in scribbling on a piece of paper. On the few occasions it happened, the sermon was often an improvement ![[Biased]](wink.gif) It seems to me that this gave us the message that it was important for all of us to listen to God, rather than one that said we must listen to the minister as he was special.
I think that it depends upon how it's said and who it points toward as to whether or not it is OK. If it's saying 'look at me, how connected to God I am' it's really not OK. If it's said humbly, perhaps almost apologetically, as per the prophets of old who had to pass on God's words, and if it points toward God, then it might be helpful.
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Be still, and know that I am God! Psalm 46.10
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Gamaliel
Shipmate
# 812
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Posted
How do you know it was an improvement on what he originally planned to say?
Or are you saying it was an improvement on how he normally preached?
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Let us with a gladsome mind
Praise the Lord for He is kind.
http://philthebard.blogspot.com
Posts: 15997 | From: Cheshire, UK | Registered: Jul 2001
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
This sort of assertion always makes me wonder about the motivations, thoughts and feelings of the person saying it. Along the lines of wondering about what need of the individual does the hearing of God at all meet, and what needs does the message meet. Thus, thinking that the voice of God is a conjuring of their own mind and motivations, notwithstanding that the alleged voice is normally not a voice at all, and God didn't really talk to the person saying this, but rather that they developed a strong feeling about something. More honest might be "I got a really strong feeling today about [X], and I think God made me feel it".
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Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
\_(ツ)_/
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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Martin60
Shipmate
# 368
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Posted
Now, when I talked to God I knew he'd understand
He said, "Stick by my side and I'll be your guiding hand
But don't ask me what I think of you
I might not give the answer that you want me to"
Oh well
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Love wins
Posts: 17586 | From: Never Dobunni after all. Corieltauvi after all. Just moved to the capital. | Registered: Jun 2001
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Byron
Shipmate
# 15532
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by PDA:
quote:
Originally posted by Adeodatus:
Sorry to kick off the thread on a cynical note, but to me this usually means "I'm going to lay down the law with you lot and claim God's authority so you can't argue with me." It's a manipulative and abusive trick, and I long for the day when a voice comes from heaven saying, "No I bloody didn't!"
I found this post more sensible than cynical.
Totally, alongside its close cousin, "the Bible clearly teaches ..." (translation, "I interpret the Bible to clearly teach ...")
It's the crudest power-play, putting your personal opinions beyond question. Given all the contradictory messages the Spirit appears to have given, either the third person is wicked schitzo, or some people aren't as tuned-in as they'd like to be.
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leo
Shipmate
# 1458
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Posted
If I heard someone claim that God had spoken to them, I'd probably tell them that I was surprised that God was so uninspiring and unintelligent.
Posts: 23198 | From: Bristol | Registered: Oct 2001
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Lyda*Rose
Ship's broken porthole
# 4544
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Posted
I'd just nod at them with a blank, sunny smile.
Sort of like this: ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
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"Dear God, whose name I do not know - thank you for my life. I forgot how BIG... thank you. Thank you for my life." ~from Joe Vs the Volcano
Posts: 21377 | From: CA | Registered: May 2003
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L'organist
Shipmate
# 17338
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Posted
You say God is speaking to you - but a clinical psychiatrist might conclude that you're hearing voices.
How to tell the difference?
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Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet
Posts: 4950 | From: somewhere in England... | Registered: Sep 2012
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quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740
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Posted
It's a wonderful title. It reminds me of the Beatles, 'God spoke to me today, oh boy, about a lucky man who made the grade, and though the news was rather sad ...'
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I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.
Posts: 9878 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2011
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Pigwidgeon
Ship's Owl
# 10192
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by quetzalcoatl:
It's a wonderful title. It reminds me of the Beatles, 'God spoke to me today, oh boy, about a lucky man who made the grade, and though the news was rather sad ...'
No, no! That was "I heard the Good News today, oh boy..."
![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
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"...that is generally a matter for Pigwidgeon, several other consenting adults, a bottle of cheap Gin and the odd giraffe."
~Tortuf
Posts: 9835 | From: Hogwarts | Registered: Aug 2005
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Starbug
Shipmate
# 15917
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Posted
You both know that John Lennon's going to haunt you for that, don't you?
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Posts: 1189 | From: West of the New Forest | Registered: Sep 2010
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Al Eluia
Inquisitor
# 864
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by leo:
If I heard someone claim that God had spoken to them, I'd probably tell them that I was surprised that God was so uninspiring and unintelligent.
This made me howl with laughter!
I've always been uneasy with people saying "God spoke to me" or "The Lord told me" this or that. I wonder if some of it comes from the prophets writing "The word of the LORD came to Isaiah, etc.", which for all we know could be shorthand for a longer process of discernment and reflection on the situation the prophet was facing rather than a direct message from heaven. I've certainly had the sense at times that God was "speaking" to me or through me, but I'm really uncomfortable talking as if God is sitting on my shoulder like Jiminy Cricket whispering messages in my ear.
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Consider helping out the Anglican Seminary in El Salvador with a book or two! https://www.amazon.es/registry/wishlist/YDAZNSAWWWBT/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_ep_ws_7IRSzbD16R9RQ
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Posts: 1157 | From: Seattle | Registered: Jul 2001
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The Midge
Shipmate
# 2398
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Posted
The favourite trick in our place is for the leader to stand up and say "Now X will bring us God's word". It is the same as above but has somehow become institutionalised.
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Some days you are the fly.
On other days you are the windscreen.
Posts: 1085 | Registered: Feb 2002
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quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Starbug:
You both know that John Lennon's going to haunt you for that, don't you?
Well, he already does, and he reports that he's in eternal conscious torment, but is writing songs about it, so it's a bit like living in Liverpool.
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I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.
Posts: 9878 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2011
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Gamaliel
Shipmate
# 812
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Posted
Ha ha ha ...
I think I've shared this before, ('shared' - now there's an old evangelical buzz-word!) but I knew a chap who used to edit a Christian magazine.
People would regularly send in the most awful doggerel poems for inclusion (even though it didn't take poetry) with the claim that the 'Lord had given them' the verses.
He said that he used to toss them into the wastepaper basked saying, 'The Lord gaveth, and the Lord taketh away ...'
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Let us with a gladsome mind
Praise the Lord for He is kind.
http://philthebard.blogspot.com
Posts: 15997 | From: Cheshire, UK | Registered: Jul 2001
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Lyda*Rose
Ship's broken porthole
# 4544
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Posted
![[Killing me]](graemlins/killingme.gif) Quotes file!
ETA: John Lennon in familiar-style torment, that is.
[ 07. July 2014, 18:36: Message edited by: Lyda*Rose ]
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"Dear God, whose name I do not know - thank you for my life. I forgot how BIG... thank you. Thank you for my life." ~from Joe Vs the Volcano
Posts: 21377 | From: CA | Registered: May 2003
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Schroedinger's cat
Ship's cool cat
# 64
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Posted
Interesting, because I think it depends exactly what is said.
If someone when preaching says "God spoke to me and told me xxx" I will listen and accept that this is how they were inspired about this particular point. I don't have a problem with that, any more than someone telling me that they looked it up in a concordance or a book. I am not sure why I need to know it, because it will not in fact change how I deal with the point being made.
Someone who starts by saying something like "God told me to preach this" I will tend to ignore everything they say, because it implies that they haven't bothered to do any work, just waited for inspiration. I do remember hearing one person who did this, and it was so bad, so ridiculous, and so meaningless that I walked out. God DOES NOT tell people what to preach. In fact, I doubt very much whether God gives a flying shit about sermons.
Yes, God does talk to people, in all sorts of ways. I don't really need to know about this, unless God has asked you to tell me.
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Blog
Music for your enjoyment
Lord may all my hard times be healing times
take out this broken heart and renew my mind.
Posts: 18859 | From: At the bottom of a deep dark well. | Registered: May 2001
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Gamaliel
Shipmate
# 812
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by no prophet:
This sort of assertion always makes me wonder about the motivations, thoughts and feelings of the person saying it. Along the lines of wondering about what need of the individual does the hearing of God at all meet, and what needs does the message meet. Thus, thinking that the voice of God is a conjuring of their own mind and motivations, notwithstanding that the alleged voice is normally not a voice at all, and God didn't really talk to the person saying this, but rather that they developed a strong feeling about something. More honest might be "I got a really strong feeling today about [X], and I think God made me feel it".
Sure, but does God actually MAKE people do anything? Sure, we can find instances in the scriptures of people apparently not being given a great deal of choice in the matter, but by and large I'd go with the view that God doesn't tend to over-ride our integrity as individuals.
Just as someone can't excuse a sin by saying, 'The Devil made me do it!' I'm not sure we can lay claim to any virtue or insight by saying, 'God made me say it.' or 'God made me read that passage ...' or whatever else it might be.
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Let us with a gladsome mind
Praise the Lord for He is kind.
http://philthebard.blogspot.com
Posts: 15997 | From: Cheshire, UK | Registered: Jul 2001
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Fineline
Shipmate
# 12143
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Posted
To me, it depends what God has supposedly said to them. If God has spoken to them and let them know that certain people in the church are doing something wrong, then I take that to mean the pastor is using God as a way to control the congregation. But if God has spoken to the pastor about his/her own behaviour, and the pastor feels convicted and want to share this, then I respect that - because I think that is how God does tend to speak to people, by getting them to look at their own lives first. And I respect people who are open to being corrected and developing self-awareness, and have the humility to share what they learn from their mistakes with others. It seems a more genuine approach to one's faith - not dictated by ego or desire to control.
Posts: 2375 | From: England | Registered: Dec 2006
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Green Mario
Shipmate
# 18090
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Posted
I agree with everyone who doesn't like "God told me" when its done too much or too confidently.
I am entirely comfortable with people saying "I think God might have spoken to me" or "this verse that I had never noticed before really stood out and I think the Holy Spirit was drawing my attention to it" or "I saw this picture or had this dream and I think this might have been from God and this might be what it means"
When I hear this sometimes I think the people telling me this may well have heard from God, other times I think they probably were mistaken (this may be more correlated to how sceptical I am feeling than anything else) but I don't feel manipulated.
If God is real as he is revealed in the New Testament I would find it incredible if he doesn't speak to his people - given that Jesus talk about his sheep hearing his voice; and Acts talks about how the Holy Spirit being poured out is evidenced by dreams and visions. Beyond any proof texting there is a huge amount of tone in the new testament that talks about fellowship with God and with the Holy Spirit; God as Father etc; i.e. relationship which strongly implies communication to me, and it doesn't seem possible to reconcile this with a God who is aloof from us and never communicates.
Posts: 121 | Registered: Apr 2014
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Raptor Eye
Shipmate
# 16649
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
Someone who starts by saying something like "God told me to preach this" I will tend to ignore everything they say, because it implies that they haven't bothered to do any work, just waited for inspiration. I do remember hearing one person who did this, and it was so bad, so ridiculous, and so meaningless that I walked out. God DOES NOT tell people what to preach. In fact, I doubt very much whether God gives a flying shit about sermons.
I strongly disagree with the statement that God does not tell people what to preach. If they say ' May I speak in the name of Almighty God' does this really mean 'I'm going to tell you what popped into my head this week'? Sermons surely must be prepared prayerfully. God surely does have some input. I agree that the legwork has to go into it too.
I'm sure God does care what is said in His name.
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Be still, and know that I am God! Psalm 46.10
Posts: 4359 | From: The United Kingdom | Registered: Sep 2011
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Raptor Eye
Shipmate
# 16649
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gamaliel:
How do you know it was an improvement on what he originally planned to say?
Or are you saying it was an improvement on how he normally preached?
The latter, with a wink.
I agree with your later comment that God doesn't make anyone do anything. He invites, sometimes so strongly that it is a command, but we must always have the 'no' option so that we are always responsible for our actions.
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Be still, and know that I am God! Psalm 46.10
Posts: 4359 | From: The United Kingdom | Registered: Sep 2011
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bib
Shipmate
# 13074
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Posted
I'm afraid that as soon as I hear "God spoke to me today" at the beginning of a sermon, I tune out completely and either drift into a reverie or spend the time looking through my hymn book (I hate hymns projected onto screens).
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"My Lord, my Life, my Way, my End, accept the praise I bring"
Posts: 1307 | From: Australia | Registered: Oct 2007
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Schroedinger's cat
Ship's cool cat
# 64
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Raptor Eye:
quote:
Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
Someone who starts by saying something like "God told me to preach this" I will tend to ignore everything they say, because it implies that they haven't bothered to do any work, just waited for inspiration. I do remember hearing one person who did this, and it was so bad, so ridiculous, and so meaningless that I walked out. God DOES NOT tell people what to preach. In fact, I doubt very much whether God gives a flying shit about sermons.
I strongly disagree with the statement that God does not tell people what to preach. If they say ' May I speak in the name of Almighty God' does this really mean 'I'm going to tell you what popped into my head this week'? Sermons surely must be prepared prayerfully. God surely does have some input. I agree that the legwork has to go into it too.
I'm sure God does care what is said in His name.
"God has input" does not mean "God told me to preach this".
I think if God really cared that much about what was said in his name, there would be so many more thunderbolts. And I do believe that God has far better ways today of communicating with his flock than through sermons.
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Blog
Music for your enjoyment
Lord may all my hard times be healing times
take out this broken heart and renew my mind.
Posts: 18859 | From: At the bottom of a deep dark well. | Registered: May 2001
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Komensky
Shipmate
# 8675
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Posted
Those are 'running words'. If you hear them, run—someone is about to lie to you.
K.
Posts: 1784 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2004
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Mudfrog
Shipmate
# 8116
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Posted
Dear Cynics Anonymous...
I understand what you say about sermons - and 'last minute messages' etc, However in my experience people who have said this have often then gone on to say words of encouragement and help - I felt God saying to me/us that he is with us, he is leading us.
I've heard people say that God has led them to a verse or a passage of Scripture and they wanted to read it just to assure people that God is here.
Very often the words God spoke to me are part of a testimony and not a sermon - and it might be that God spoke to them through the Bible, a song, a conversation with someone.
Is this really so off-the-wall?
It's ironic perhaps that many people who reject sola scriptura in favour of on-going revelation would be cynical when someone claims that God has in fact revealed or confirmed an existing truth.
Now, if someone said, 'God spoke to me and told me that there are no black people in heaven or that Obama was the Second Coming, then yes of course it's crazy; but when people sincerely say that God 'spoke to their heart' and it was simply a word of encouragement and inspiration then what's the problem?
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"The point of having an open mind, like having an open mouth, is to close it on something solid."
G.K. Chesterton
Posts: 8237 | From: North Yorkshire, UK | Registered: Jul 2004
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Komensky
Shipmate
# 8675
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Mudfrog:
[snip]
Very often the words God spoke to me are part of a testimony and not a sermon - and it might be that God spoke to them through the Bible, a song, a conversation with someone.
Is this really so off-the-wall?
Yes.
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"The English are not very spiritual people, so they invented cricket to give them some idea of eternity." - George Bernard Shaw
Posts: 1784 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2004
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Komensky
Shipmate
# 8675
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Mudfrog:
Dear Cynics Anonymous... [snip]
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it."
- George Bernard Shaw
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"The English are not very spiritual people, so they invented cricket to give them some idea of eternity." - George Bernard Shaw
Posts: 1784 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2004
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South Coast Kevin
Shipmate
# 16130
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Posted
Just a quick comment - in my experience, when people say 'God spoke to me', they don't usually mean they literally heard an audible voice which they attributed to the Almighty. I wince slightly at this inaccurate use of language - personally, I prefer to say things like 'I think God wants me to say this' or 'I think God has given me something to share' - but that's how it is, ISTM.
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My blog - wondering about Christianity in the 21st century, chess, music, politics and other bits and bobs.
Posts: 3309 | From: The south coast (of England) | Registered: Jan 2011
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Alan Cresswell
Mad Scientist 先生
# 31
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Komensky:
quote:
Originally posted by Mudfrog:
[snip]
Very often the words God spoke to me are part of a testimony and not a sermon - and it might be that God spoke to them through the Bible, a song, a conversation with someone.
Is this really so off-the-wall?
Yes.
Care to expand on that? Why is it so off-the-wall for God to communicate to us?
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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.
Posts: 32413 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001
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Komensky
Shipmate
# 8675
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
quote:
Originally posted by Komensky:
quote:
Originally posted by Mudfrog:
[snip]
Very often the words God spoke to me are part of a testimony and not a sermon - and it might be that God spoke to them through the Bible, a song, a conversation with someone.
Is this really so off-the-wall?
Yes.
Care to expand on that? Why is it so off-the-wall for God to communicate to us?
Sure. It's completely subjective, unreliable, unproven, unprovable and open to abuses of the most heinous sort; but apart from that it's fine.
K.
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"The English are not very spiritual people, so they invented cricket to give them some idea of eternity." - George Bernard Shaw
Posts: 1784 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2004
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Alan Cresswell
Mad Scientist 先生
# 31
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Posted
So, you do not think that God communicates with us at all I take it.
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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.
Posts: 32413 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001
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Arminian
Shipmate
# 16607
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Posted
I found it particularly irritating when worship leaders changed the songs during the service 'because the spirit told me to' when apparently the almighty couldn't tell the rest of us the day before during band practise.
Posts: 157 | From: London | Registered: Aug 2011
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Latchkey Kid
Shipmate
# 12444
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Lyda*Rose:
I'd just nod at them with a blank, sunny smile.
It's not from a sermon, but I took someone to the airport today who said something like "God told me I must go and visit my mother." (The mother is probably in the terminal stages of cancer.) I think I tried an encouraging smile.
Back in the 70s I got annoyed with a housemate who kept saying "God has revealed to me ...." and asked him why he didn't just say "I think ..."
In the OT it is often related that "The word of the Lord came to xxx." Is this at all like the subject of the OP? Or are some people just being pretenders or false prophets?
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'You must never give way for an answer. An answer is always the stretch of road that's behind you. Only a question can point the way forward.'
Mika; in Hello? Is Anybody There?, Jostein Gaardner
Posts: 2592 | From: The wizardest little town in Oz | Registered: Mar 2007
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Adeodatus
Shipmate
# 4992
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
So, you do not think that God communicates with us at all I take it.
I'd say that I would rather take responsibility for what I say, than ascribe it to God and risk misrepresenting him.
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"What is broken, repair with gold."
Posts: 9779 | From: Manchester | Registered: Sep 2003
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mdijon
Shipmate
# 8520
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Komensky:
Sure. It's completely subjective, unreliable, unproven, unprovable and open to abuses of the most heinous sort; but apart from that it's fine.
Just like declarations of romantic love then.
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mdijon nojidm uoɿıqɯ ɯqıɿou
ɯqıɿou uoɿıqɯ nojidm mdijon
Posts: 12277 | From: UK | Registered: Sep 2004
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South Coast Kevin
Shipmate
# 16130
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Adeodatus:
quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
So, you do not think that God communicates with us at all I take it.
I'd say that I would rather take responsibility for what I say, than ascribe it to God and risk misrepresenting him.
That seems to be the Biblical (certainly the New Testament) model - what is it Paul says in 1 Corinthians, 'the spirit of a prophet is subject to the prophet'? God's guidance and direction does not overwhelm our decision-making powers such that we have no control over what we say, ISTM.
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My blog - wondering about Christianity in the 21st century, chess, music, politics and other bits and bobs.
Posts: 3309 | From: The south coast (of England) | Registered: Jan 2011
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Alan Cresswell
Mad Scientist 先生
# 31
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Adeodatus:
quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
So, you do not think that God communicates with us at all I take it.
I'd say that I would rather take responsibility for what I say, than ascribe it to God and risk misrepresenting him.
There are two issues. One is the question of does God communicate at all, which Komensky considered to be "off-the-wall". The other is whether, if we get a message from God, we repeat that with an emphatic "God told me".
I'm with you, if I think God has told me something that he also wants me to tell others I would hedge that statement with a good collection of "I think this is important", "you may find this useful", "it's possible that God wants you to think about this". Personally, I would only use the phrase "God spoke to me this morning" if what follows is to repeat a reading from the Bible.
But, as an occasional preacher, I think there is an important point about sermons. That is, the sermon should be a means by which God communicates with the congregation (and the preacher!). That may not be the message I think I'm preaching on, it's surprising how many different things people can get from a sermon - most of them not what the preacher thought the sermon was about. I hope my sermons are interesting and people pay attention, but to be honest if someone zones out and finds themselves thinking about the Gospel text or the words of a hymn that doesn't worry me too much.
"Now X will bring us God's word" is not entirely inappropriate. The sermon exists to open the Scriptures (as an evangelical I would call that "Gods Word") and guide people through hearing something from them. I would want a preacher to bring the Word of God into my life and the life of the congregation, to once again make it real and relevant. I would expect the preacher to have taken time to meditate upon the texts, to prayerfully consider whether there is any particular message that would be appropriate for the congregation, and be open to the Spirit guiding her preparation.
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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.
Posts: 32413 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001
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Gamaliel
Shipmate
# 812
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Posted
Mudfrog, I don't reject Sola Scriptura in favour of ongoing revelation - the issue I have with Sola Scriptura is that 9 times out of 10 it isn't Sola Scriptura at all but 'Sola my interpretation of scripture ...'
Which may not necessarily be the same thing.
Besides, if God had wanted us to make up what we preach week by week, then why would he have given us the Lectionary?
More seriously, I don't think it's entirely off-the-wall to suggest that there are times when God might highlight something for a particular purpose.
I once heard a very astonishing - and to my mind, convincing - testimony in this respect from a highly conservative evangelical setting where such things weren't generally expected at all. And all the more convincing for that very reason, I would say.
I also remember a very middle-of-the-road verging on liberal female priest telling me that all of a sudden during the liturgy one day she felt very strongly prompted to say something in addition to the 'set' prayers on the page.
She let it pass and didn't do anything with it. Afterwards she spoke to someone in the congregation who told her something that made her realise that what she would have said would have been particularly pertinent to this person's need.
So, no, I'm not quite as cynical as Komensky when it comes to this sort of thing.
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Let us with a gladsome mind
Praise the Lord for He is kind.
http://philthebard.blogspot.com
Posts: 15997 | From: Cheshire, UK | Registered: Jul 2001
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Mudfrog
Shipmate
# 8116
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Komensky:
quote:
Originally posted by Mudfrog:
[snip]
Very often the words God spoke to me are part of a testimony and not a sermon - and it might be that God spoke to them through the Bible, a song, a conversation with someone.
Is this really so off-the-wall?
Yes.
Why?
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"The point of having an open mind, like having an open mouth, is to close it on something solid."
G.K. Chesterton
Posts: 8237 | From: North Yorkshire, UK | Registered: Jul 2004
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SvitlanaV2
Shipmate
# 16967
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by South Coast Kevin:
Just a quick comment - in my experience, when people say 'God spoke to me', they don't usually mean they literally heard an audible voice which they attributed to the Almighty.
I've heard restrained Methodist preachers refer to the importance of 'listening to God's voice' and 'letting God speak', but this doesn't seem to refer to anything audible. It certainly isn't taken as a sign that the speaker has turned into a 'holy roller' or some kind of prophet.
It just goes to show that the same religious language can mean different things in different church traditions.
Posts: 6668 | From: UK | Registered: Feb 2012
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PDA
Apprentice
# 16531
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gamaliel:
Mudfrog, I don't reject Sola Scriptura in favour of ongoing revelation - the issue I have with Sola Scriptura is that 9 times out of 10 it isn't Sola Scriptura at all but 'Sola my interpretation of scripture ...'
Which may not necessarily be the same thing.
And all Gods people said Amen
Posts: 40 | From: Essex | Registered: Jul 2011
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PDA
Apprentice
# 16531
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Posted
And all Gods people said Amen (ok maybe not all of them)
It is often the implication that God invented a secret code that can get us to heaven but without these people standing before us and unlocking the code we would be damned.
Removing the focus in my mind from God and placing power in their hands.
This is not always the case but it often is.
Some of the deepest spiritual insights i have received are from people who lack any kind of advanced theological knowledge and I would generally consider below average intelligence in the academic sense.
As Bill Shankley stated about football so is also true of the Gospel in my opinion," Football is a simple game complicated by idiots".
A behaviour left over from when Christianity was used to control poor people perhaps.
Posts: 40 | From: Essex | Registered: Jul 2011
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