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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Why did the disciples cross the lake?
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Gramps49
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# 16378
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Posted
To get to the other side
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+14%3A22-36&version=NRSV
Only Mark says that Jesus wanted them to go to Bethesda which was on the Gentile side of the lake.
However, they did not quite make it, landing at Gennesaret, which is close to Bethesda; but it is still on the Jewish side of the lake.
Obviously, when the Gentiles started to convert to Christianity; it caused some stormy seas for the church. But to land at Gennesaret suggest the church did not quite make the transition at the time of Mark or Matthew's writing.
More latter.
One last observation. What happens to Peter (the Rock) when he takes his eyes off Jesus? He begins to sink like--well, you know.
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Adam.
Like as the
# 4991
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gramps49:
One last observation. What happens to Peter (the Rock) when he takes his eyes off Jesus? He begins to sink like--well, you know.
I like this. 'Rock' is a polysemous metaphor, capable of various meanings. Peter has no choice but to be rock (that's Jesus' omnipotence), but he retains the freedom to choose how he will be rock (we are free to respond or not to God's grace).
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Gramps49
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# 16378
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Posted
Thing of it is, Peter is not officially named Peter, the Rock, until two chapters later.
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Trudy Scrumptious
BBE Shieldmaiden
# 5647
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Posted
But the order in which things happen in the Gospels is not always chronological.
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Adam.
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# 4991
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gramps49:
Thing of it is, Peter is not officially named Peter, the Rock, until two chapters later.
I thought of that after posting. In fact, the sequence is rather important. In this sea episode, the disciples as a whole will name Jesus as Son of God. It's Peter, later, who will actively remember this identification and add to it "Messiah." It's this that leads to Jesus' "Rock" statement.
If it was intended by Matthew, it's a connection you can only spot at your second reading (unless he's expecting readers to know the rock story before reading). I think Matthew would expect his work to get more than one reading, though, so that doesn't take away from it.
[ 02. August 2014, 03:04: Message edited by: Hart ]
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Ave Crux, Spes Unica!
Preaching blog
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Oscar the Grouch
Adopted Cascadian
# 1916
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Posted
When looking at stories which appear in more than one gospel, I always think it is important to pay attention to significant differences. What does one gospel leave out? What is unique to one gospel? In this case, it is only Matthew who adds to the story of Jesus walking on water:
a) Peter's attempt to imitate Jesus
b) The disciples' declaration of faith "you are the Son of God"
And I find it interesting that nowhere else in the Synoptic gospels do the disciples make this declaration. I think this points to the importance of the walking on water for Matthew's community. Quite why this is so important is another knotty question.
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Faradiu, dundeibáwa weyu lárigi weyu
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Charles Had a Splurge on
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# 14140
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Posted
I’ve always been puzzled by the declaration that Jesus is the Son of God/Messiah/Christ and when it occurs in the Gospel. Hadn’t noticed before that there are difficulties with The Rock as well.
John in his first chapter has Andrew telling Simon that Jesus is the Son of God, explaining this as meaning the Messiah, and also Jesus calling Simon, The Rock. John 1:40-42NRSV Now I know that there are a number of chronological differences between John and the synoptics, but this is fairly central, From the start Jesus has a Messiah movement. It isn’t that they follow a Rabbi and have it revealed to them that this Rabbi is the Messiah a la Mark.
Philip and Nathanael also have no difficulty in identifying Jesus as Prophet, Son of God and King John 1:49 NRSV.
Don't know what it means though.
Puzzled.
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"But to live outside the law, you must be honest" R.A. Zimmerman
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Gramps49
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# 16378
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Posted
Something I am teasing out.
Matthew says Jesus compelled his disciples to get in the boat. Actually, more than compelled, more like forced.
So the disciples find themselves in the middle of the storm. The struggle with the storm all night.
I wonder what was going through their minds during that storm.
Thank you, Jesus, for getting us in this pickle.
Where are you, Jesus, when we really need you?
They must have been near exhaustion when they see this adoration approaching.
I also find it interesting John does not mention Peter walking on the water.
However, in John 21 after fishing all night, when Peter realizes Jesus is on shore, he girds himself and swims to shore.
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Adam.
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# 4991
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Posted
So, after having read around this passage quite a bit this week, it seems the commentators are pretty split. Which of the following the you find more compelling:
1) Peter displays genuine faith in wanting to go to Jesus, to be as close to him as possible, but displays lack of faith (making him one of 'little-faith') in two ways: a) leaving the boat (=Church) to be close to Jesus; b) asking for a miraculous power for himself to get there, unlike Christ himself in the temptation who does not "put God to the test" by asking for extraneous miracles.
2) Peter displays genuine faith in wanting to go to Jesus, to be as close to him as possible, in wanting to imitate him, and in trusting him to grant an 'impossible' request, but displays lack of faith (and hence has 'little faith') in losing his trust and looking at the water rather than at his Lord.
Either way, I would say the major point of this passage is not in what Peter does, but in what Jesus does: revealing himself as Son of God by saving people.
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Ave Crux, Spes Unica!
Preaching blog
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Gramps49
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# 16378
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Posted
I favor point 2 in that it is easier to preach, but I agree the story is about the theophany of Jesus, not Peter's faith issues.
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Mamacita
Lakefront liberal
# 3659
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Hart:
Either way, I would say the major point of this passage is not in what Peter does, but in what Jesus does: revealing himself as Son of God by saving people.
Yes.
Our deacon used a gentle tone of voice when reading Jesus' statement "Oh you of little faith!" and it occurred to me that Jesus may well have been chuckling at this point, and half-teasing, half-chiding Peter softly in that way you do with children, when you pull them back to their feet after they've hurt themselves doing something stupid.
(In his sermon, the deacon also suggested that there was a line edited out of the text at an early date -- the line where the disciples yelled at Peter "Don't be an idiot! Get back in the boat! ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif) )
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Do not be daunted by the enormity of the world’s grief. Do justly, now. Love mercy, now. Walk humbly, now. You are not obligated to complete the work, but neither are you free to abandon it.
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Gramps49
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# 16378
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Posted
How often have I heard that "Don't be an idiot, get back in the boat" line before--in so many words. Along the lines of "We have never done it that way before."
Last thing the church wants to do in times of trouble is to step out in faith.
Good point.
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Gramps49
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# 16378
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Posted
There are a number of stories where Jesus is impressed by people of great faith--the centurion who asks Jesus to heal his boy slave, and the woman who asks Jesus to heal her daughter. Also the woman with the blood issue come to mind. See the new thread "Connections."
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