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Source: (consider it) Thread: Christian parents call cops over free book giveaway.
George Spigot

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# 253

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Christian parents call cops over free book giveaway. Cops inform them thats not illegal.

Generally speaking when you are on the book banning side it's time to take a good hard look at your priorities.

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C.S. Lewis's Head is just a tool for the Devil. (And you can quote me on that.) ~
Philip Purser Hallard
http://www.thoughtplay.com/infinitarian/gbsfatb.html

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Welease Woderwick

Sister Incubus Nightmare
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Hey, c'mon, surely it is obvious that if they don't know the word then they won't do the deed!

[Roll Eyes]

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Fancy a break in South India?
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passer

Indigo
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Looks as though all those who lobbied for this have thumbs.....


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L'organist
Shipmate
# 17338

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Thumbs? Thumbs?

Maybe its done differently in 'Merica!

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Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet

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George Spigot

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# 253

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quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:
Thumbs? Thumbs?

Maybe its done differently in 'Merica!

Well for one the males are more likely to have to cope without a foreskin....

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C.S. Lewis's Head is just a tool for the Devil. (And you can quote me on that.) ~
Philip Purser Hallard
http://www.thoughtplay.com/infinitarian/gbsfatb.html

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Sioni Sais
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quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:
Thumbs? Thumbs?

Maybe its done differently in 'Merica!

Those without opposable thumbs need to be more flexible. [Big Grin]

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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"

(Paul Sinha, BBC)

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Porridge
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Why don't these parents ban the Bible, with its tales of bigamy, incest and genocide? That can't be the kind of thing good Christians want their 10th-graders reading. (And it's often given away for free, too. What's up with that?)

[ 05. May 2014, 12:13: Message edited by: Porridge ]

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Spiggott: Everything I've ever told you is a lie, including that.
Moon: Including what?
Spiggott: That everything I've ever told you is a lie.
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EtymologicalEvangelical
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quote:
Originally posted by George Spigot
Generally speaking when you are on the book banning side it's time to take a good hard look at your priorities.

Very true.

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You can argue with a man who says, 'Rice is unwholesome': but you neither can nor need argue with a man who says, 'Rice is unwholesome, but I'm not saying this is true'. CS Lewis

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George Spigot

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# 253

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quote:
Originally posted by EtymologicalEvangelical:
quote:
Originally posted by George Spigot
Generally speaking when you are on the book banning side it's time to take a good hard look at your priorities.

Very true.
Heh. Touche'. I wouldn't agree with removing the bibles myself. Let people rwad them or ignore them as they wish.

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C.S. Lewis's Head is just a tool for the Devil. (And you can quote me on that.) ~
Philip Purser Hallard
http://www.thoughtplay.com/infinitarian/gbsfatb.html

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Schroedinger's cat

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# 64

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10th Grade are 15-16 YO. I am sure they already know the word, and have done the deed.

If the parents want their children to make good decisions, they need to bring them up asking the right questions, not keeping them away from anything that might "pollute" them.

As for the bible, I am sure they teach them a lovely, all-American cute version of it. Full of care-bears and sweetness. Just like all the other fairy tales they tell them.

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Blog
Music for your enjoyment
Lord may all my hard times be healing times
take out this broken heart and renew my mind.

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Pigwidgeon

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These days, people will call for a ban on just about any book. Even Laura Bush, who made such a big deal of being a former teacher and librarian, spoke out against it.
[Roll Eyes]

[ 05. May 2014, 13:54: Message edited by: Pigwidgeon ]

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"...that is generally a matter for Pigwidgeon, several other consenting adults, a bottle of cheap Gin and the odd giraffe."
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Alan Cresswell

Mad Scientist 先生
# 31

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[Admin Note]

The site linked to in the OP raises warnings of being affected by the Heartbleed bug. I'm not an expert of internet security, but as I understand it reading the article should be safe. However, if you wish to register on that site to post a response there you may want to think about using a different username/password combination than you use anywhere else.

Carry on.

Alan
Ship of Fools Admin

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L'organist
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# 17338

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One thing shines out of this one: the school should take careful note of the parents who have asked for the book to be withdrawn/banned because its likely to be their children who'll need the school to do the sex education bit.

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Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet

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art dunce
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My kids loved that book and my son read it in sixth grade since we have an open bookshelf policy in our house.


On a separate note Judy Blume has done a great deal to fight censorship.

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Ego is not your amigo.

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The Phantom Flan Flinger
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The book gets a thumbs-up from me [Two face]

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leo
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Judy is a brilliant and most spiritual author - no wonder fundies are scared of her.

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My Jewish-positive lectionary blog is at http://recognisingjewishrootsinthelectionary.wordpress.com/
My reviews at http://layreadersbookreviews.wordpress.com

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Stoo

Mighty Pirate
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quote:
Originally posted by passer:
Looks as though all those who lobbied for this have thumbs.....

Lucky bastards

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This space left blank

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Evensong
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# 14696

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quote:
Originally posted by George Spigot:
quote:
Originally posted by EtymologicalEvangelical:
quote:
Originally posted by George Spigot
Generally speaking when you are on the book banning side it's time to take a good hard look at your priorities.

Very true.
Heh. Touche'. I wouldn't agree with removing the bibles myself. Let people rwad them or ignore them as they wish.
Pity the same can't be done for the book in question. It seems it's on the required reading list.

Isn't it terrible how people object to ideas they find offensive?

[Roll Eyes]

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a theological scrapbook

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passer

Indigo
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quote:
Originally posted by Evensong:
Isn't it terrible how people object to ideas they find offensive? [Roll Eyes]

Indeed. That's why I visit this place, for the harmony and concord. In my experience, people on the Ship tend to keep schtum when they're offended by others' ideas, in a display of tolerance often not seen elsewhere.


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Kelly Alves

Bunny with an axe
# 2522

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quote:
Originally posted by Pigwidgeon:
These days, people will call for a ban on just about any book. Even Laura Bush, who made such a big deal of being a former teacher and librarian, spoke out against it.
[Roll Eyes]

How divorced from our mammalian selves are we getting that a kid can't "hop on pop" without Laura - for God's sake- Bush getting everyone up in arms?

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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.

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Rosa Winkel

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# 11424

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They use the whole arm?

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The Disability and Jesus "Locked out for Lent" project

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orfeo

Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878

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quote:
Originally posted by passer:
quote:
Originally posted by Evensong:
Isn't it terrible how people object to ideas they find offensive? [Roll Eyes]

Indeed. That's why I visit this place, for the harmony and concord. In my experience, people on the Ship tend to keep schtum when they're offended by others' ideas, in a display of tolerance often not seen elsewhere.


Ah, passer. As meta as always.

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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.

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mousethief

Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953

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quote:
Originally posted by Rosa Winkel:
They use the whole arm?

Just the part where the thumbs are.

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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...

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RuthW

liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13

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quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
quote:
Originally posted by Pigwidgeon:
These days, people will call for a ban on just about any book. Even Laura Bush, who made such a big deal of being a former teacher and librarian, spoke out against it.
[Roll Eyes]

How divorced from our mammalian selves are we getting that a kid can't "hop on pop" without Laura - for God's sake- Bush getting everyone up in arms?
I didn't click the link right away, and took "hop on pop" to be a euphemism for masturbation I simply hadn't heard before. And now I've ruined Dr. Seuss for myself. [Roll Eyes] [Eek!] [Roll Eyes]
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Rosa Winkel

Saint Anger round my neck
# 11424

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quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
quote:
Originally posted by Rosa Winkel:
They use the whole arm?

Just the part where the thumbs are.
Damn, was looking for new ideas.

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The Disability and Jesus "Locked out for Lent" project

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Porridge
Shipmate
# 15405

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quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:
quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
quote:
Originally posted by Pigwidgeon:
These days, people will call for a ban on just about any book. Even Laura Bush, who made such a big deal of being a former teacher and librarian, spoke out against it.
[Roll Eyes]

How divorced from our mammalian selves are we getting that a kid can't "hop on pop" without Laura - for God's sake- Bush getting everyone up in arms?
I didn't click the link right away, and took "hop on pop" to be a euphemism for masturbation I simply hadn't heard before. And now I've ruined Dr. Seuss for myself. [Roll Eyes] [Eek!] [Roll Eyes]
To add to your dismay, were you aware of his work developing anti-Japanese propaganda during WWII?

--------------------
Spiggott: Everything I've ever told you is a lie, including that.
Moon: Including what?
Spiggott: That everything I've ever told you is a lie.
Moon: That's not true!

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Evensong
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quote:
Originally posted by passer:
quote:
Originally posted by Evensong:
Isn't it terrible how people object to ideas they find offensive? [Roll Eyes]

Indeed. That's why I visit this place, for the harmony and concord. In my experience, people on the Ship tend to keep schtum when they're offended by others' ideas, in a display of tolerance often not seen elsewhere.


Public sexualization is not tempered for children in western society.

It should be.

But it's not an issue most of the Ship's denizens seem to care about.

I'm a theological liberal but a social conservative.

Sue me.

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a theological scrapbook

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Doc Tor
Deepest Red
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quote:
Originally posted by Porridge:
To add to your dismay, were you aware of his work developing anti-Japanese propaganda during WWII?

I'd have been more dismayed if he'd been working on anti-US propaganda.

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Forward the New Republic

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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713

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quote:
Originally posted by Evensong:
quote:
Originally posted by passer:
quote:
Originally posted by Evensong:
Isn't it terrible how people object to ideas they find offensive? [Roll Eyes]

Indeed. That's why I visit this place, for the harmony and concord. In my experience, people on the Ship tend to keep schtum when they're offended by others' ideas, in a display of tolerance often not seen elsewhere.


Public sexualization is not tempered for children in western society.

It should be.

But it's not an issue most of the Ship's denizens seem to care about.

I'm a theological liberal but a social conservative.

Sue me.

Forget legal action, but are you advocating sweeping things under the table? These kids are 10th graders, age 14-15. Even if they have been protected from the term few will be unaware of the act.

Your viewpoint isn't socially conservative, but wilfully ignorant.

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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"

(Paul Sinha, BBC)

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Evensong
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# 14696

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I said public sexualization.

We are a woefully sex obsessed society.

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a theological scrapbook

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Porridge
Shipmate
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quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:
quote:
Originally posted by Porridge:
To add to your dismay, were you aware of his work developing anti-Japanese propaganda during WWII?

I'd have been more dismayed if he'd been working on anti-US propaganda.
Given the US's internment of Japanese-American citizens during that war, one could argue that some if it was.

--------------------
Spiggott: Everything I've ever told you is a lie, including that.
Moon: Including what?
Spiggott: That everything I've ever told you is a lie.
Moon: That's not true!

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orfeo

Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878

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quote:
Originally posted by Evensong:
I said public sexualization.

We are a woefully sex obsessed society.

How the hell is book-reading anything to do with public sexualization? Exactly how many people did you used to have reading over your shoulder in the school library?

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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.

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Stoo

Mighty Pirate
# 254

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quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
How the hell is book-reading anything to do with public sexualization? Exactly how many people did you used to have reading over your shoulder in the school library?

More than in the toilet cubicle, that's for sure.

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This space left blank

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Evensong
Shipmate
# 14696

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quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
quote:
Originally posted by Evensong:
I said public sexualization.

We are a woefully sex obsessed society.

How the hell is book-reading anything to do with public sexualization?
Really?

quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
Exactly how many people did you used to have reading over your shoulder in the school library?

Tons.

I only read the best books.

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a theological scrapbook

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art dunce
Shipmate
# 9258

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Has anyone on this thread actually read the book? If not I highly recommend it. It's a coming of age story based on his lived experience and it is hugely popular because it resonates with countless young people.

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Ego is not your amigo.

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Ariston
Insane Unicorn
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quote:
Originally posted by Evensong:
I said public sexualization.

We are a woefully sex obsessed society.

So, let me read between a few lines here:

1. This book discusses things that teenagers do, or are curious about, but nobody's talking about. It's bringing what is normally taboo out of the shadows, into the light, safely destigmatizing it, showing new ways of looking at it, giving people—yes, people, not idealized Precious Little Angels—new perspectives on things that they might just want. You're saying that's sex obsession and a bad thing.

2. Sometimes, bringing dark, taboo, and unspeakable issues into the light from the darkness where we've put them, and where some social conservatives want them to stay, is kind of the point. Are we going to pretend that these things don't happen, or are we going to create narratives dealing with them, narratives and stories that could help others? Repression and silencing in the name of propriety helps nobody.

3. And forget about just sex. What about war, death, and violence? If you're 17 here in the States, you're old enough to enlist. Tim O'Brian's magnificent The Things They Carried, which deals very frankly about war, death, personal responsibility, and guilt (among many, many other things) is pretty commonly challenged. Would you have graphic descriptions of soldiers swearing, screwing, and stepping on land mines suppressed in the name of social conservatism? Just think of the children reading such things! Never mind that many of them have already signed up at the local recruiting office and are shipping out to basic training the day of their last final.

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“Therefore, let it be explained that nowhere are the proprieties quite so strictly enforced as in men’s colleges that invite young women guests, especially over-night visitors in the fraternity houses.” Emily Post, 1937.

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Kelly Alves

Bunny with an axe
# 2522

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While we are celebrating this bold, groundbreaking book that discusses adolescent masturbation, let us remember that Judy Blume already broke that barrier in 1973, with her book , Deenie. She got the same mountain of shit for it, too.

Respect. [Cool]

[ 07. May 2014, 18:43: Message edited by: Kelly Alves ]

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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.

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Porridge
Shipmate
# 15405

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quote:
Originally posted by art dunce:
Has anyone on this thread actually read the book?

I have not. I did assign a book during my brief part-time teaching stint which had been banned by various local high schools, and a parent of one of my ADULT (18-or-over, college freshmen) students did complain to my department head about the book. The parent had not read it, and when urged to do so by the department head, refused, saying (or so reported my Head) "I would never read trash like that!" (Don't ask me; I just worked there.)

I wish someone would keep track of how many would-be banners and objectors actually have the slightest idea what they're trying so hard to keep other people from reading.

I spend a little of my professional time in high schools when evaluating new admits to my program. My general impression is that trying to "protect" the average 14-15 y.o. from detailed sexual information is a job for King Canute.

--------------------
Spiggott: Everything I've ever told you is a lie, including that.
Moon: Including what?
Spiggott: That everything I've ever told you is a lie.
Moon: That's not true!

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art dunce
Shipmate
# 9258

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quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
While we are celebrating this bold, groundbreaking book that discusses adolescent masturbation, let us remember that Judy Blume already broke that barrier in 1973, with her book , Deenie. She got the same mountain of shit for it, too.

Respect. [Cool]

Her book "Forever" was the most secretly passed around book when I was in middle school. Declare something taboo and everyone is going to have to read it.

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Ego is not your amigo.

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art dunce
Shipmate
# 9258

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Sorry for double post didn't see Ariston's post. My kids both had "The Things They Carried" as an assigned reading and found the book to be powerful and moving. It was one of both their favorite readings in 10th grade and they still mention it from time to time.

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Ego is not your amigo.

Posts: 1283 | From: in the studio | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged
Curiosity killed ...

Ship's Mug
# 11770

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A story about sexual awareness and teenagers: I was supporting 4 statemented students in a year 10 or 11 (same sort of age) class - 14-16 year olds - when the teacher showed a film about just saying no, what people felt about their first sexual experience and why it was worth delaying. The class talked through it and when he asked me why I said that I thought I was sitting with the only two virgins in the class - two students with significant learning difficulties.

A couple of weeks later I brought in a sex ed video put out by BBC education aimed at that age group. In the film, one of the group of teenagers had symptoms of an STI - chlamydia. The film ended with the entire friendship group at the STI clinic to be checked out. And the class paid attention for the entire film - because it was relevant to them where they were, paired off, sexually active teenagers.

In fact, that film got shown to the entire year and I got a lot of stick in the staff room for bringing it in by one the DT teachers who had to cover the lesson one day.

Yes children are sexualised early, but that's talking about the overly sexual content of pop videos, fashion, advertising ... Teenagers also have hormones and sexual feelings. And teaching STI awareness or masturbation is not objectifying women, neither is it showing teenagers graphic porn, which is how many of the young people of my acquaintance find out about sex around parents who are too embarrassed to explain sex or try to put up taboos and hold their kids back. And that porn route gives far more unrealistic expectations than a book that, from the sound of it, is sensitively exploring what it is to be a teenager.

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Mugs - Keep the Ship afloat

Posts: 13794 | From: outiside the outer ring road | Registered: Aug 2006  |  IP: Logged
Kelly Alves

Bunny with an axe
# 2522

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quote:
Originally posted by art dunce:
quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
While we are celebrating this bold, groundbreaking book that discusses adolescent masturbation, let us remember that Judy Blume already broke that barrier in 1973, with her book , Deenie. She got the same mountain of shit for it, too.

Respect. [Cool]

Her book "Forever" was the most secretly passed around book when I was in middle school. Declare something taboo and everyone is going to have to read it.
Yes. Yes. The boy named his penis. Eye opener to curious young virgins nationwide.

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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.

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ArachnidinElmet
Shipmate
# 17346

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quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
quote:
Originally posted by art dunce:
quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
While we are celebrating this bold, groundbreaking book that discusses adolescent masturbation, let us remember that Judy Blume already broke that barrier in 1973, with her book , Deenie. She got the same mountain of shit for it, too.

Respect. [Cool]

Her book "Forever" was the most secretly passed around book when I was in middle school. Declare something taboo and everyone is going to have to read it.
Yes. Yes. The boy named his penis. Eye opener to curious young virgins nationwide.
That book is the reason (one of them) that I can't take anyone called Ralph seriously.

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'If a pleasant, straight-forward life is not possible then one must try to wriggle through by subtle manoeuvres' - Kafka

Posts: 1887 | From: the rhubarb triangle | Registered: Sep 2012  |  IP: Logged
orfeo

Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878

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quote:
Originally posted by Evensong:
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
quote:
Originally posted by Evensong:
I said public sexualization.

We are a woefully sex obsessed society.

How the hell is book-reading anything to do with public sexualization?
Really?
Yes, really. Because when I was a young lad - I don't remember exactly how old, but younger than these kids - my mother gave me a book to read as part of the birds and bees talk. In fact the birds and bees talk was pretty much 'here's a book, if you want to ask us any questions after, you can'.

And I already knew a reasonable amount of what was in the book.

What's woeful is parents who somehow fool themselves into thinking that they're the only source of information on sex, or parents who actually refuse to be a source of information on the topic at all.

Even if someone never 'does anything' before their wedding night, they should not be in the position of getting to their wedding night not knowing what's going to be happening. Nor should they be restricted to hearing whatever vague, unhelpful testimony they can get from parents who don't want to discuss such things and spend 2 perfunctory minutes 'explaining' and think they've done their parental duty.

Books are perfectly valid sources of information, and to my mind they're hardly 'public' in the way that films or TV shows or music videos are.

[Edited hours later when I suddenly noticed I had achieved a massive coding fuck-up. Sigh.]

[ 08. May 2014, 08:23: Message edited by: orfeo ]

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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.

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comet

Snowball in Hell
# 10353

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one of the kids I coached this year had a piece she performed that was brilliant. It was a study on mental illness, and done in a funny way. dealt with some really heavy issues. She gave a stellar, gripping performance.

At our community performance, I told the audience that all mature or difficult material would be in Act 2, in case parents wanted to remove younger children before that time. I NEVER limit what ages can attend a show of any kind, as I believe that is up to the parents to choose. But I did warn them.

After the show, I had a mom corner me and read me the riot act because she didn't want her 15 year old daughter to "have to hear such language!" I asked her what part of the piece she found disturbing, since we'd cut the foul language out of it already.

her problem wasn't the sensitive topic or the irreverent way it was treated. it was that my student said "blow job". That was it.

"I mean, I bring my daughter to a performance, I don't expect to have to explain such language later!"

Again. Daughter is 15. She could probably tell YOU what it means.

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Evil Dragon Lady, Breaker of Men's Constitutions

"It's hard to be religious when certain people are never incinerated by bolts of lightning.” -Calvin

Posts: 17024 | From: halfway between Seduction and Peril | Registered: Sep 2005  |  IP: Logged
Ariston
Insane Unicorn
# 10894

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quote:
Originally posted by ArachnidinElmet:
quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
Yes. Yes. The boy named his penis. Eye opener to curious young virgins nationwide.

That book is the reason (one of them) that I can't take anyone called Ralph seriously.
"I've heard from several young men who say: 'Judy, how could you do this to me?'" Blume admits. "I apologise to all of them. It's nothing personal."

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“Therefore, let it be explained that nowhere are the proprieties quite so strictly enforced as in men’s colleges that invite young women guests, especially over-night visitors in the fraternity houses.” Emily Post, 1937.

Posts: 6849 | From: The People's Republic of Balcones | Registered: Jan 2006  |  IP: Logged
Kelly Alves

Bunny with an axe
# 2522

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(crying with laughter.)

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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.

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Liopleurodon

Mighty sea creature
# 4836

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Books are absolutely brilliant for teaching adolescents about sexuality. You can get factual information into their heads, encourage them to read and improve their literacy (because they'll probably be interested in this topic, even if they aren't big readers), avoid the awkwardness of birds and bees talks, reduce the risk of them getting STIs and/or becoming parents before they're ready and most of the work is done by the kids in their own time. All you have to do is buy a few decent books on the subject and leave them lying around where they'll get picked up. I honestly don't know why every parent doesn't take this approach (assuming that the kids don't have problems with reading/reading comprehension of course. If they do I guess you need a different tactic.)
Posts: 1921 | From: Lurking under the ship | Registered: Aug 2003  |  IP: Logged
saysay

Ship's Praying Mantis
# 6645

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quote:
Originally posted by George Spigot:
Christian parents call cops over free book giveaway. Cops inform them thats not illegal.

Generally speaking when you are on the book banning side it's time to take a good hard look at your priorities.

They didn't ban the book, they just got it removed from the required reading list.

On the flip side, objecting to a book can apparently get you arrested.

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"It's been a long day without you, my friend
I'll tell you all about it when I see you again"
"'Oh sweet baby purple Jesus' - that's a direct quote from a 9 year old - shoutout to purple Jesus."

Posts: 2943 | From: The Wire | Registered: May 2004  |  IP: Logged
mousethief

Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953

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quote:
Originally posted by saysay:
quote:
Originally posted by George Spigot:
Generally speaking when you are on the book banning side it's time to take a good hard look at your priorities.

They didn't ban the book, they just got it removed from the required reading list.

But I'd argue that's the same side as book banning. Just not as far to the extreme end. Further, trying to prevent someone from giving out free books is even farther toward the extreme than merely banning it from the school library.

[ 09. May 2014, 19:51: Message edited by: mousethief ]

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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...

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