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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Here is something I think we all should stand for:
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Gramps49
Shipmate
# 16378
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Posted
When ISIS has taken over an Iraqi community, they will tell the Christians they have one of four choices: 1) Pay a very high head tax; 2) Convert to Islam; 3) Leave the community; or 4) Die for their faith. If they chose to leave the community, ISIS will confiscate all their possessions. One ancient Monastery run by the Syrian Christian Church was completely destroyed, though the monks were allowed to leave. We need to stand with our Christian brothers and sisters in Iraq. Please sign the petition below.
[link removed]
Iraq has a Christian Community of 600,000. 60,000 used to live in Mosul. Isis has not forced the last Christians to leave the community. This is the first time since the 15th century there are no Christians in Mosul.
[ 29. July 2014, 04:58: Message edited by: Eutychus ]
Posts: 2193 | From: Pullman WA | Registered: Apr 2011
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
While I share your concern (not only for the Christians), I also wonder: what exactly do they want the UN or the Arab League to do?
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
Posts: 9474 | From: Brazil / Africa | Registered: Aug 2002
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RuthW
liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13
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Posted
Do we have any way of verifying the claims made on that site? Who is behind this petition? What exactly do they want the UN and the Arab League to do?
And as we have actual governments representing us at the UN, wouldn't it make more sense for us to petition our governments to bring this up at the UN? Assuming of course that we think the UN could do something.
And finally, I am so friggin' tired of clicktivism.
Posts: 24453 | From: La La Land | Registered: Apr 2001
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RuthW
liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13
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Posted
Cross-post with LeRoc - great minds, etc!
Posts: 24453 | From: La La Land | Registered: Apr 2001
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mrWaters
Shipmate
# 18171
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Posted
I do share everyone's concerns about Christian and Shia population in Northern Iraq, however I sadly don't see a way in which the UN or any other international organization can help.
The situation is dreadful with the extremist militias on the streets and the new Caliphate. The Iraqi sectarian government is falling apart, army is divided and almost powerless.
ISIS is not recognized by anyone and the diplomatic solutions do not work too well with fanatics. Military response would certainly create problems for the terrorists,however I do not believe thousands of young white soldiers can destroy heavily motivated enemy such as ISIS' fighters without serious repercussions. The asymmetrical warfare tactics in Mosul would surely result in unimaginable civilian casualties to say the least.
Additionally sadly the deed is done already. Any serious response would be nothing better than an old fashioned revenge. Instead of writing hundreds of petitions I would propose to think how we can combat an ill idea. ISIS and their Islamic State is an idea. I do not believe one can combat an idea with guns.
Posts: 80 | From: Aberdeen | Registered: Jul 2014
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Gramps49
Shipmate
# 16378
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Posted
How can you verify the claims of this website?
You might want to google the claims yourself.
It has been heavily reported in US news media.
I found one report from the BBC
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-28397528
I think it is a little dated, through.
Why appeal to the UN and the Arab League?
The UN is involved in refugee resettlement--I see France has offered sanctuary for Christians fleeing Northern Iraq.
Why petition the Arab League? The Arab League is Sunni. ISIS claims to be Sunni. Perhaps the AL can exert some influence on ISIS--maybe even form relief columns for entrapped religious minorities (not just Christian)
I agree, petition your own governments to do more to help the Iraqis, though most governments have said they will not do anything as long as Malaki is in power.
Who is CitizenGo?
Foundation CitizenGO is a Spanish Foundation, registration number 1582, born from the experience and friendship of a group of people eager to serve society by ensuring that the dignity of the human person and the rights inherent to it are respected in all areas.
CitizenGO is a community of citizens who work together to empower and encourage participation in the public life of their countries, and in the international arena.
It wants to defend and promote life, family, and liberty in an effective way through online petitions and actions. It works to ensure that those in power respect human dignity and individuals’ rights.
http://citizengo.org/en/node/1
Now, I would admit some of the petitions CitizenGo is promoting I cannot sign, but this is one petition I can sign.
No, I do not know how effective this petition drive may be, but at least it has gotten a few of you to ask more questions about what is happening to Christians and other minorities in ISIS controlled areas.
Posts: 2193 | From: Pullman WA | Registered: Apr 2011
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Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081
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Posted
hosting/
quote:
Originally posted by Gramps49:
No, I do not know how effective this petition drive may be, but at least it has gotten a few of you to ask more questions about what is happening to Christians and other minorities in ISIS controlled areas.
Posting links to a petition is a breach of Commandments 8 and 9, however worthy the cause is felt to be, so I've removed the link in the OP.
Purgatory is for discussing ideas, and not for encouraging people to support one's own. As you yourself point out, this can be done without posting a link to the petition itself.
/hosting
[ 29. July 2014, 05:05: Message edited by: Eutychus ]
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Let's remember that we are to build the Kingdom of God, not drive people away - pastor Frank Pomeroy
Posts: 17944 | From: 528491 | Registered: Jul 2002
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Gramps49
Shipmate
# 16378
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Posted
00PS.
Sorry about that.
[ 29. July 2014, 07:04: Message edited by: Gramps49 ]
Posts: 2193 | From: Pullman WA | Registered: Apr 2011
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Martin60
Shipmate
# 368
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Posted
And in the mean time ... how do we stand with them? As in while we're waiting for God to do all the miracles we pray for ... what do we actually, really do? I.e. how do we be Christ without the lesser miracles? To ISIS?
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Love wins
Posts: 17586 | From: Never Dobunni after all. Corieltauvi after all. Just moved to the capital. | Registered: Jun 2001
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Raptor Eye
Shipmate
# 16649
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Posted
We stand with them primarily in prayer: to pray for God's love to reach those who are persecuting Christians who at the same time think they are serving God; to pray for God's love to reach those who are being persecuted, particularly remembering those who can't run and who therefore must die or pretend to convert; and to pray for God's guidance to reach all who can in effect make a difference.
It's far better for loud protest to be made in that part of the world than for 'the West' to shout the loudest. The latter simply fuels the prejudices which these evil sects rely upon.
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Be still, and know that I am God! Psalm 46.10
Posts: 4359 | From: The United Kingdom | Registered: Sep 2011
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Martin60
Shipmate
# 368
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Posted
Pray for what? We create these evil sects.
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Love wins
Posts: 17586 | From: Never Dobunni after all. Corieltauvi after all. Just moved to the capital. | Registered: Jun 2001
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Beeswax Altar
Shipmate
# 11644
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Posted
You seem to have a low opinion of Arabs.
Why is that?
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Losing sleep is something you want to avoid, if possible.
-Og: King of Bashan
Posts: 8411 | From: By a large lake | Registered: Jul 2006
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
quote:
Gramps49: The UN is involved in refugee resettlement--I see France has offered sanctuary for Christians fleeing Northern Iraq.
So, one of the things you want to achieve is that through UN pressure, more countries will grant sanctuary to refugees. I'm for that. (At the risk of repeating myself: not only for the Christians.)
quote:
Gramps49: Why petition the Arab League? The Arab League is Sunni. ISIS claims to be Sunni. Perhaps the AL can exert some influence on ISIS--maybe even form relief columns for entrapped religious minorities (not just Christian)
I don't know to which extent you can say that 'the Arab Leage is Sunni'. Sunni Muslims are the majority within its population, however some countries have shia majorities. The way I understand it, the Arab League is already trying to exert some influence over the conflict. To which effect I cannot say, I'm not an expert. The way I understand it, the Muslim world as a whole isn't overly enthusiastic about this caliphate.
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
Posts: 9474 | From: Brazil / Africa | Registered: Aug 2002
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Augustine the Aleut
Shipmate
# 1472
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Posted
As the situation of these communities is becoming more and more untenable, they are leaving. Perhaps the most useful thing which we can do is to pressure our own governments to increase their aid to the UNHCR, their support to the immediately receiving countries, and to open up sponsored refugee places in our own countries. The sooner concerned shipmates do this, the better.
Signing electronic petitions is not only close to totally useless, it is a dangerous activity in that it suggests that we have actually done something. Signatures cannot be verified and governments feel no obligation (as in None) to petitions sent from outside their countries.
Get out your pens and send a letter to your country's foreign minister or immigration minister. Postage is generally not a huge expense.
Posts: 6236 | From: Ottawa, Canada | Registered: Oct 2001
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Martin60
Shipmate
# 368
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Posted
Nothing's what it seems.
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Love wins
Posts: 17586 | From: Never Dobunni after all. Corieltauvi after all. Just moved to the capital. | Registered: Jun 2001
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Beeswax Altar
Shipmate
# 11644
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Posted
Well, the way you blame every wrong thing any Arab, lets expand that to any Muslim, does on the West or Christendom or the United States in particular, Muslims must have the EQ of a sleep deprived toddler. Furthermore, you assume Christians have far more power than they actually do. For instance, not even the wealthy and nefarious Christians in the United States have access to a time machine. A time machine would be the only way Christians could be responsible for the 1500 year old conflict between Sunni and Shia.
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Losing sleep is something you want to avoid, if possible.
-Og: King of Bashan
Posts: 8411 | From: By a large lake | Registered: Jul 2006
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mrWaters
Shipmate
# 18171
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by LeRoc:
The way I understand it, the Muslim world as a whole isn't overly enthusiastic about this caliphate.
Caliph is historically considered as Muhammad's successor and leader of all faithful. Caliphate means a great deal of unrest among population of just about every Arab League state. Look at its biggest member - Egypt with new president Al Sisi trying to keep the Muslim Brotherhood down with an iron fist. Other important members of the Arab League like Qatar or Saudi Arabia are also very invested in the fight against extremist organizations led by the US. As far as I know there is no recognized state that has any warm feelings towards the ISIS and their caliphate.
[code]
[ 29. July 2014, 21:56: Message edited by: Eutychus ]
Posts: 80 | From: Aberdeen | Registered: Jul 2014
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Martin60
Shipmate
# 368
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Posted
I blame Christendom's constant and worsening interference. Christendom destroyed the Ottoman empire, created Israel, created Syria, created Iraq and just keeps on creating. Except it WON'T create Palestine. Interesting that.
Christendom is way too powerful for its EQ.
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Love wins
Posts: 17586 | From: Never Dobunni after all. Corieltauvi after all. Just moved to the capital. | Registered: Jun 2001
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Beeswax Altar
Shipmate
# 11644
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Posted
All that is true it still assumes Muslims have the EQ of sleep deprived toddlers.
For the sake of argument, let's assume that Europe is Christendom. The Ottoman Empire spent centuries fighting wars in Christendom. Losing those wars weakened the Ottoman Empire. The Ottoman Empire ultimately collapsed fighting a war in Christendom. The Christians of Europe forced the Ottoman Empire to keep trying to expand their empire into Europe? What a complete load of nonsense. By the way, the Ottoman Empire is responsible for the deaths of 1.5 million Armenian Christians. Of course, they weren't Palestinian and weren't killed by Jews so they don't matter. Besides, Christians forced them to kill all of those Armenians by not allowing them to expand their empire into Europe. See, only true if we assume that Muslims have the EQ of a sleep deprived toddler.
The Europeans created some nations out of what was left of the Ottoman Empire believing their obligation as occupying powers to do so. Now, unless Muslims have the EQ of a sleep deprived toddler, this fact would not force them to start killing each other. They could have accepted the borders as drawn and started living together in peace and harmony instead of killing one another. They could have redrawn the borders to their liking instead of Europe's liking. They didn't. And the reason they didn't has very little to do with Europe or Christians. Was there ever peace in the Middle East prior to Christendom's meddling? Absolutely not.
Truth be told the implied reasons for blaming Christendom are not only insulting to Muslims but they are contradictory. Muslims needed the Ottoman Empire to keep them from killing one another but if the Europeans had stayed out of it they wouldn't have killed one another following the collapse of the Ottoman Empire? The West is responsible for ISIS because they overthrew Saddam Hussein who used brute force to keep the religious factions of Iraq from killing each other. At the same time, the US is guilty of not giving enough support to the protesters in Egypt trying to oust Mubarak even though Mubarak played much the same role in Egypt as Hussein did in Iraq. The US largely stayed out of Syria and yet ISIS formed in Syria due in part to living under the same kind of ruler as Saddam Hussein. So, the Muslims need a strong ruler to keep them from killing one another. Unless the ruler is too strong and then they'll start killing one another. Holding elections will put into power a government that is either too weak or too strong and the Muslims will start killing one another. Again, this is all the fault of Christendom because Muslims have the emotional EQ of sleep deprived toddlers and are in no way responsible for their own actions.
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Losing sleep is something you want to avoid, if possible.
-Og: King of Bashan
Posts: 8411 | From: By a large lake | Registered: Jul 2006
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Ad Orientem
Shipmate
# 17574
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Martin PC not & Ship's Biohazard:
I blame Christendom's constant and worsening interference. Christendom destroyed the Ottoman empire, created Israel, created Syria, created Iraq and just keeps on creating. Except it WON'T create Palestine. Interesting that.
Christendom is way too powerful for its EQ.
Eh?
Posts: 2606 | From: Finland | Registered: Feb 2013
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Beeswax Altar
Shipmate
# 11644
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Posted
You didn't know that?
Christendom is also responsible for the millions purportedly killed during the Chinese Warring States period. ![[Biased]](wink.gif)
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Losing sleep is something you want to avoid, if possible.
-Og: King of Bashan
Posts: 8411 | From: By a large lake | Registered: Jul 2006
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Martin60
Shipmate
# 368
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Posted
Nobody is responsible for their actions. There is no blame in any of it. Including and especially the feckless idiocy of Christendom, the most influential meme by far.
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Love wins
Posts: 17586 | From: Never Dobunni after all. Corieltauvi after all. Just moved to the capital. | Registered: Jun 2001
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Beeswax Altar
Shipmate
# 11644
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Posted
And yet you blame Christendom for all the evil in the world.
Whatever...
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Losing sleep is something you want to avoid, if possible.
-Og: King of Bashan
Posts: 8411 | From: By a large lake | Registered: Jul 2006
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Gramps49
Shipmate
# 16378
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Posted
If I remember my history of religious wars lectures (which I heard in college): all religious wars are started by a group of people who are looking to gain something, then seek to justify it in the name of their god.
Posts: 2193 | From: Pullman WA | Registered: Apr 2011
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