|
Source: (consider it)
|
Thread: Syncretism in prayer
|
Curiosity killed ...
Ship's Mug
# 11770
|
Posted
How do people feel about using aspects of other faith systems in their prayer?
This comes out of the suggestion of using the yoga Sun Salutation as active prayer. Yoga is one of those controversial topics in some religious circles as the breathing techniques and meditations have roots in Hinduism.
I like yoga to work out and when I was taking classes mentally Christianised it as I was doing it, but I was only using it as an exercise.
Is it possible to Christianise exercises from other faiths?
Can we successfully use syncretism in prayer?
--------------------
Mugs - Keep the Ship afloat
Posts: 13794 | From: outiside the outer ring road | Registered: Aug 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
|
Posted
Common in First Nations in Canada with some vast variations because the cultures are different as perhaps Norwegian is from Chinese culture.
( I hope I am not taking your thread too far afield with this post. Feel free to redirect please. )
In the Sweat Lodge - it's the Cree version I am familiar with - is conceptualized to a degree (nothing is nearly as tightly articulated and uniform as might be anticipated from a Christian and orthodox perspective) as the womb of your spiritual mother: God's womb from whence you came, which takes some consideration if you've been brought up to think of god as a boy. Typically 4 glowing hot rocks are put into the centre pit of the lodge by people outside, from a fire where they've been tending them all day, also in prayer. The doors are closed (it is typically in the prairie made of bent over saplings and covered with canvas, traditionally buffalo hide). Something is put on the rocks, like sweet grass or sage, and then water is sprinkled on them from a whisk made of sage or something. Doors open eventually, and cool off, repeat for 4 rounds. Four is a special number for the 4 cardinal directions. It is interesting to me that the sweat lodge is mother, that spirit or something I naively identify with sky is father, and I have no idea if this is cultural adoption or independent parallel.
The activities in a sweat lodge are prayer, singing, and often, crying and hallucinating. Rather profound. Different than my typical way of sceptically analysing things, trying to understand if the experience is one of physical duress promoting the emotional and cognitive responses misses the point. It is a personal experience and the visions are common, at least for the likes of me. It seems to be like the "thin places", but almost a conjuring up of one within the lodge, like I've heard about in Celtic culture.
I have spoken at length to an Anglican priest whose heritage and upbringing are traditional Cree, and he will not consider going into a sweat lodge now. But it was in the company of an Anglican lay reader and RC priest, among other laity that I've experienced this.
So in answer to your OP question, I guess I am hesitantly good with it, but such things should not be approached casually. Respect and reasonable caution are in order.
[ 02. October 2014, 22:34: Message edited by: no prophet ]
--------------------
Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
\_(ツ)_/
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
| IP: Logged
|
|
Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528
|
Posted
It depends upon 1) what it means to you, and 2) what it means to those observing you. The first simply means that whatever you do should not be crossing the First Commandment border "you shall have no other gods before me" but must be in service of the true God. The second has to do with charity and not misleading others--even if you "know" it's fine, others watching might imitate you to their own hurt if they don't possess the same understanding you have. Which is, for example, why I would never set an incense burner in front of family portraits, because our visitors would automatically assume we were worshipping those ancestors--rather than honoring the Lord who made them. And it's rarely possible to explain your rationale to EVERYBODY who might come across you doing something questionable looking.
I assume this is why your ethnic leaders flat out refused to take part. They are both Christian examples and members of the community, and what they do will be carefully scrutinized--much more than what an outsider does. But by the same token, no one will ask them WHY they participate (if they do) as they might ask you, an outsider. People will just assume (wrongly) that they are doing precisely the same thing with the same meaning as the nonChristian community members. You, for instance, might burn incense in front of a family picture with nobody raising eyebrows. In a Vietnamese Christian's home, this needs avoiding. Particularly for a leader.
--------------------
Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!
Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004
| IP: Logged
|
|
Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
|
Posted
Complicating my take on thing is the fact that I grew up in the Bay Area, during a huge cult explosion, and that many of these cults used somatic/ syncretic techniques to manipulate people. So, marathon meditation was used to enduce confusion, fasting was used to drive cult members into weakened, indecisive states, and emotional fervor was used to induce emotional catharsis-- to the point of estatic, hallucinogenic, altered states.
Famed child evangelist Marjoe Gartner, after he had long since proclaimed himself agnostic, once demonstrated his " slain in the Spirit" technique to a skeptical reporter. He basically had that person stand up and scolded and shamed them for their lack of faith until they were so emotioslly drained that all he had to do was smack their head and say, " recieve the Spirit!" and they fell down.
So, basically, my take is-- boy, do you have to know yourself to try this stuff. i mean, you have to have a sense when you are having a self-- soothing thought that doesn't coincide with reality, when you are bullshitting youself, when someone else is bullshitting you. If you are secure in the sense that the only important opinions in the process are yours and God's, go for it.
[ 03. October 2014, 21:49: Message edited by: Kelly Alves ]
--------------------
I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
Curiosity killed ...
Ship's Mug
# 11770
|
Posted
Kelly, I think you've put a finger on something I was uncomfortable with trying to Christianise yoga, well at least the meditation cool down sessions, when I was taking part in this class. It felt false and uncomfortable, neither properly meditating or properly praying. I miss the exercise aspects, but not that discomfort.
--------------------
Mugs - Keep the Ship afloat
Posts: 13794 | From: outiside the outer ring road | Registered: Aug 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
|
Posted
Interesting I kind of took to it. Our cool down consisted of concentrating on posture and breathing, and for me this encourage a kind of mindfulness that is hard for me-- I very much spend most of the time worrying about the future, so things that force me to be present do me good.
But my class was a community college intro sort of thing, so there wasn't any effort to promote any spiritual idea beyond "calming yourself helps your mind function better, " so it may have been presented differently to me. One visualization the instructor had us use was imagining our spines as a pillar of light. Nothing that either actively encourage me to "christianize" it or did anything to interfere with my Christian ethos.
--------------------
I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
Curiosity killed ...
Ship's Mug
# 11770
|
Posted
We got things like this on a good day, which sounds like what you got - relaxing the body and being conscious of the body. On a bad day we got something like this - which didn't help me relax. This one is talking about finding cosmic energy and how to link into it, complete with manipulative music.
--------------------
Mugs - Keep the Ship afloat
Posts: 13794 | From: outiside the outer ring road | Registered: Aug 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
|
Posted
Um. Yeah.
Personally all that yakking would drive me away from a meditative space, even if the yakking is an order to relax.
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif) By the way, if you're wondering, that seems to be an adorable Wisconsin accent the girl in the first video is sporting. ![[Axe murder]](graemlins/lovedrops.gif)
[ 05. October 2014, 08:47: Message edited by: Kelly Alves ]
--------------------
I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
itsarumdo
Shipmate
# 18174
|
Posted
I tend to think of it like a recipe book - it's fine having a four course meal, but I would't like to mix up the recipes in one pot for mushroom soup, waldorf salad, liver and bacon bubble and squeak and raspberry pavlova.
--------------------
"Iti sapis potanda tinone" Lycophron
Posts: 994 | From: Planet Zog | Registered: Jul 2014
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
Printer-friendly view
