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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: 'Pastoral care' - what's that then?
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South Coast Kevin
Shipmate
# 16130
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Posted
This is a spin-off from the 'I don't want to bother Father' thread. It seems there's plenty of disagreement about exactly what 'pastoral care' is, in the church / Christian context; so I thought it might be worth a thread.
A few people had been mentioning things related to counselling and listening, then Baptist Trainfan said this:
quote:
Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:
...what I find frustrating is that people seem much less willing to speak about specifically spiritual issues - to me, at least. And yet I feel more able to help them with these difficulties than in some of the others I've mentioned. [e.g. visiting the elderly, giving support to people in hospitals, talking through marital / children-related issues]
BT also asked why this might be; whether 'ministers and/or churches [have] unintentionally presented a wrong picture of what pastoral problems are' or whether people are 'unwilling to speak about their spirituality'.
What do you think, then? Should church pastoral people focus on spiritual development issues, or is pastoral care far broader than that? What about the final point; are most people reluctant to talk about their spiritual lives (with ministers? with anyone?) and is that a problem?
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Ad Orientem
Shipmate
# 17574
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Posted
When I hear the phrase pastoral care I automatically think of the parable of the shepherd who leaves the other sheep in order to find the one lost sheep. Pastoral care means nothing unless it's main purpose is spiritual care. That's not to say that it can't include other things, but without it pastoral care is just another form of social service.
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Evensong
Shipmate
# 14696
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by South Coast Kevin:
What do you think, then? Should church pastoral people focus on spiritual development issues, or is pastoral care far broader than that? What about the final point; are most people reluctant to talk about their spiritual lives (with ministers? with anyone?) and is that a problem?
What do you and Ad Orientum mean by "spiritual care" or "spiritual issues"?
[ 02. August 2014, 09:50: Message edited by: Evensong ]
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Chocoholic
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# 4655
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Posted
That does seem to be viewing spiritual issues and personal issues/situations as separate. Surely they come together? People don't have spiritual lives which are separate from their personal situations and often personal situations are those giving rise to spiritual questions.
I do think that people are less able to speak about spiritual issues too, so may talk more about the personal situation they are in, it doesn't mean there aren't related spiritual issues that may come up. It also doesn't mean the ministry of listening when people talk about the personal problems or being alongside them is any less valuable. It is sometimes at these times when people need to talk, to get things off their chests to someone they trust. Being that person is a privilege and not to be viewed lightly.
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Curiosity killed ...
Ship's Mug
# 11770
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Posted
The problem is that priests aren't trained to counsel, and should* recognise when they are out of their depth and refer people on. So pastoral care is recognition of people's needs but also knowing when additional support is necessary and when and where to refer on. The lines are always blurred but are getting more so with cuts in mental health services where there's this continuing need but nowhere to refer on to.
Would people say that pastoral support includes home communion and discussion of funerals?
* I've seen someone not recognise that they were out of their depth, but I've seen a lot of curates.
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Gamaliel
Shipmate
# 812
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Posted
I think South Coast Kevin has raised a crucial question here.
What exactly IS pastoral care?
And what does the 'spiritual' part of it look like?
Can we indeed 'unpack' the 'natural' from the 'spiritual'? Should it all be holistic?
I did have a spiritual director at one point - the arrangement seems to have lapsed - but at the first session the bloke was keen to shut me up. I wonder why that was?
![[Biased]](wink.gif)
I was chucking out Bible verses and theological issues and considerations drawn from this, that and the other tradition left, right and centre.
His main focus, at first, was to get me to cut through the crap and focus on the main issue.
With someone else it would have been different ... he might have had to tease things out of them ...
It comes down to expectations in the end.
The way South Coast Kevin envisages these things is commensurate with his charismatic evangelical spirituality. I'm not knocking that, simply making an observation.
So, consequently, he will focus on things that helps - as he sees it - people to develop their 'gifts' and play their part in building the Kingdom.
Consequently, within his particular paradigm that involves people feeling 'prompted' or 'led' towards particular courses of action and part of the package is developing discernment to sift out possible directions etc.
In other traditions that aspect will be there to some extent, but it won't be as prominent. There'll be other issues.
So whatever form 'pastoral care' takes, I'd suggest that its governed/determined by expectations created by our particular churchmanship or tradition.
It'll be shaped by that just as the way we read and interpret the Bible is, the way we worship is and the way we do anything else is.
So it all depends on where we stand and where we are coming from.
So there'll be innumerable variations between, 'More tea, vicar?' on the one hand and 'After prayer and fasting, I think we can both agree that the Lord is calling you to some form of entrepreneurial evangelistic ministry in inner-city Suchandsuchaplace.
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Let us with a gladsome mind
Praise the Lord for He is kind.
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Adeodatus
Shipmate
# 4992
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Posted
From my little silo of hospital chaplaincy, I'd say that exercising pastoral care is about using your gifts and skills so that those in your care might thrive. If you want a one-liner, I'd go to Irenaeus: "The glory of God is a human being fully alive". "Fully alive" is what pastoral care aims for.
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Angloid
Shipmate
# 159
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Posted
Conversely, there is often an assumption on the part of some Christians that conversation with one's pastor, or spiritual director, should be confined to 'spiritual' or religious topics. A bit like the children in school assemblies who expect the answer to any question to be "Jesus".
Apart from the difficulty of defining what is a 'spiritual' matter, that can imply a denial of the holistic nature of our relationship with God. A pastor should surely be concerned with the total welfare of his/her 'sheep', and while s/he may not have the expertise to help with many practical issues, can and should help to discern God's presence within them.
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Posts: 12927 | From: The Pool of Life | Registered: May 2001
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Jengie jon
Semper Reformanda
# 273
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Posted
Right I am going to be awkward. I have taken a course in basic pastoral care. As part of that I had to write a definition of pastoral care and I took a more historical line than most.
Today I would say pastoral care is like spiritual coaching. A good coach is not only interested in the physical training of an athlete, they are concerned about the whole of the athlete's well being because without taking it into consideration an athlete cannot perform their best. However it would be worrying if a coach was not primarily focused on the athlete's performance in sport. Thus, pastoral care is concerned with the whole of a persons life but if it is not focused on the individuals concerned's Christian discipleship then it has lost its focus. If you prefer you can take that focus on "living the Christian life"*. Without this focus it becomes a cross between social work and person centred counselling with a bit of ceremony thrown in.
This is very much in line with the historical practice of pastoral care. Where I differ from this is that while I believe teaching on the Christian faith and challenges to follow a more Christian lifestyle are part of it; I do not feel that it is the role of the carer to make judgements on behalf of the church. Anyone doing pastoral care is a player-coach and they are not the captain/manger of the team so are not authorised to make such judgements**. They do have a duty to deal with their own standards of play as well and receive coaching as well.
Jengie
*I have deliberately decided not to use spirituality; it too often gets overly concerned with devotional practices and forgets the wider claims of the Christian life.
**If Baptist Trainfan wants to consider why people will not talk about spiritual matters he might like to consider the way the judgemental role has often been the centre of pastoral care within the Reformed tradition. It no longer is but we are dealing with the legacy of the past.
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Gamaliel
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# 812
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Posted
That doesn't sound 'awkward' to me, Jengie Jon, it sounds like very wise and sensible advice.
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Let us with a gladsome mind
Praise the Lord for He is kind.
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Drewthealexander
Shipmate
# 16660
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Posted
I also am attracted to Jengie's "spiritual coaching" idea. In the modern discipline of coaching, the emphasis on development of potential as opposed to counselling which, of necessity, focuses on problem solving.
To add a provocative thought of my own.... Shepherd's tended sheep until the sheep was ready either to be eaten or, if it was a particularly fine specimen, to be sacrificed.
Is then, the highest goal of pastoral care, to prepare people as living sacrifices?
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Raptor Eye
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# 16649
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Posted
I'd say that pastoral care covers the whole remit of body, mind and spirit, but as its source is the Christian Church (however we define it) then God is included, as is any relationship the individual cared for may have with God. Every encounter will be different, but prayer and God's guidance will always be included.
Therefore the pastoral care comes from the Christian perspective of the giver, whether it's providing food, visiting a prisoner, or helping a fellow Christian along the pilgrimage of faith.
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Be still, and know that I am God! Psalm 46.10
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hatless
Shipmate
# 3365
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Posted
If Christ is present to us in the Church, then pastoral care must be a crucial part of our relationship with God in Christ. However, since Christ, like his father, is an awkward and slippery bugger, that relationship won't be straightforward, and nor will pastoral care work the way we most often expect and want it to work.
I think Baptist Trainfan is dead right that the churches have managed to create unhelpful ideas and expectations in this area. My suspicion is that the relationship with the church and its pastoral care is seen too directly as a relationship with a caring and paternalistic God. People look to ministers and others in the church to make them feel good. They may even assert a sort of right to sympathy. 'Something bad happened to me, you have to make me feel better.' 'Where was the church / minister / visitor when I needed it?'
But God isn't like that. God doesn't make it all better, but leads us through the loneliness and suffering. Pastoral care has to share this perplexing nature. It's certainly about being with people, noticing them and taking them seriously, but it isn't about dealing with their problems for them, even though it will include an endless interest in them.
The pastor has, I think, to sit alongside people as a sister or brother, not as an intermediary between them and God.
Two years ago I became a mental health chaplain after 30 years as a minister. I thought I might hate it, because I've often struggled with the role of pastor and preferred the business of preaching and teaching. However, pastoral care in a psychiatric hospital has turned out to be a wonderful experience, full of times of immense privilege. The honest and deep, urgent and personal conversations that I would have every now and then in the pastorate, can happen several times in a week in the hospital. I think it's because as a chaplain I am in a much more mysterious role than a minister is. There is no sense of a pastoral contract with a church for patients in a hospital. It's hard to say what a chaplain is for or why you might want to talk to one, but people do, and the conversations are often deeply sacramental.
Jerome Berryman talks about blessing as 'calling forth the good in people.' That's my current favourite description of what I think pastoral care is about.
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Posts: 4531 | From: Stinkers | Registered: Sep 2002
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Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by hatless:
But God isn't like that. God doesn't make it all better, but leads us through the loneliness and suffering. Pastoral care has to share this perplexing nature. It's certainly about being with people, noticing them and taking them seriously, but it isn't about dealing with their problems for them, even though it will include an endless interest in them.
The pastor has, I think, to sit alongside people as a sister or brother, not
And the Pastor has to listen, rather than immediately stepping in to give advice ... I am not always very good at this!
And I agree totally that "God doesn't make it all better". That's a fairy-godmother view of him, exploded for once and for all by Jurgen Moltmann. But if this is what ministers present in church, then we are storing up pastoral problems for later.
Thank you for a moving post, full of insight.
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