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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Writing in Tongues
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Firenze
Ordinary decent pagan
# 619
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Posted
I live in a place with two literary languages - English and Scots. Hamish Henderson's Freedom Come All Ye was sung at the opening ceremony of The Commonwealth Games - as this translation shows a lot of the power of the poem inheres in the Scots words. Scots is still in vigorous use - as witness this poem published a few weeks ago.
Scots, of course, is just the one I know about - there are a great many other dialects and stuff written in them. Possibly they leak into the mainstream more through music - like the Jamaican patois of No Woman No Cry.
As a writer, the dialect words you grew up with are always the 'real' words in a way that cannot be displaced. What do you think? Do you have another tongue which says things that cannot ever be quite translated?
[ 26. July 2014, 21:02: Message edited by: Firenze ]
Posts: 17302 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Jun 2001
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Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984
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Posted
My mother is from Yorkshire, though she hasn't a strong accent now. I've always felt an affinity for the dialect - and there are few words in my core vocabulary that I only realise are non-standard if I read a dialect dictionary.
This is a nice example, of switching in and out: Patrick Stewart
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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell
Posts: 19219 | From: Erehwon | Registered: Aug 2005
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Schroedinger's cat
Ship's cool cat
# 64
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Posted
I think all writers use the words that they grow up with. Most dialect words don't properly translate, because they have a feel that is distinct.
I write prose, but I suspect that for poetry, the cadence and rhythm of the words is far more important, so the sound and feel of the words that you grow up with, or you hear around you. They reflect more than just the meaning, they reflect the context.
So for me a jitty, ginnel, alley or cut-through all mean the same thing (a pedestrian only route between houses). But choosing the right word for a situation is important, because they are not interchangeable. They can all refer to the same place, but they all reflect the person or the people who are addressing the particular feature.
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Blog
Music for your enjoyment
Lord may all my hard times be healing times
take out this broken heart and renew my mind.
Posts: 18859 | From: At the bottom of a deep dark well. | Registered: May 2001
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Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061
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Posted
I need a lot of dialect and period-speak in my novels, and it is a constant challenge. It does not help that in some periods no one ever wrote down slang or profanity (the women and children might have their morals corrupted, after all!). In the good old days I would go through a Partridge's Dictionary of Period Slang with a pack of post-it notes in hand, marking dirty words that might be of use. These days the Internet is wonderfully helpful. This year I happily reverse-engineered a Latin obscenity back from English into its original crude Latin, for fictional use.
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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page
Posts: 6378 | From: Washington DC | Registered: Mar 2014
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Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
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Posted
That translation of the Freedom come all ye doesn't just show the power inherent in the Scots, it is itself a possibly deliberate demonstration of the power not inherent in English political upper echelon speak. That last line is ludicrous. You could rend the power of the bosses' chains better.
To have the two tongues is a great gift.
Posts: 5833 | Registered: May 2009
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
There is a good deal of poetry written in the regional language I grew up in, but to be honest I'm not very familiar with it.
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
Posts: 9474 | From: Brazil / Africa | Registered: Aug 2002
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mark_in_manchester
not waving, but...
# 15978
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Posted
Well, the land of my fathers has this to offer. I'll try to transcribe the accent properly, and you'll get it's from.
quote:
I bawt a lot of brandy
when I was cawtin Sandy
took eight to make 'er randy
and all I 'ad was shandy
another fing wiv Sandy
wot often came in 'andy
was passing 'er a 'Mandy'
she didn't 'arf go bandy
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
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"We are punished by our sins, not for them" - Elbert Hubbard
(so good, I wanted to see it after my posts and not only after those of shipmate JBohn from whom I stole it)
Posts: 1596 | Registered: Oct 2010
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Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081
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Posted
The only problem with Billericay Dickie that is that Ian Dury was born in Harrow, Middlesex. But he is sadly missed nonetheless.
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Let's remember that we are to build the Kingdom of God, not drive people away - pastor Frank Pomeroy
Posts: 17944 | From: 528491 | Registered: Jul 2002
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mark_in_manchester
not waving, but...
# 15978
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Posted
He apparently lived a while in Upminster, Essex - a town with which I have some association. The wierd thing is, he bigged-up that association as some kind of badge of honour - which compared to Billy Bragg's background in Barking, really comes across as a bit limp. Upminster is full of folks who commute to the city; buying a Guardian at the station is a tall order, given the huge piles of the Daily Mail which must first be negotiated. But Drury seems to have clutched at it, perhaps owing to its appearance on the tube map. Whatever - 'New Boots and Panties' is a masterpiece. Though one no longer on heavy rotation, since my kids started to pick out some of the lyrics:
quote:
I come awake - with the gift for womenkind
you're still asleep - but the gift don't seem to mind
When they started to say 'Dad, why is he singing ''arf way up your back" it seemed wise to keep it for post 9pm!
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"We are punished by our sins, not for them" - Elbert Hubbard
(so good, I wanted to see it after my posts and not only after those of shipmate JBohn from whom I stole it)
Posts: 1596 | Registered: Oct 2010
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agingjb
Shipmate
# 16555
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Posted
I write, well I try to, in the literary British English of the middle of the Twentieth century. This increasingly feels like a minority dialect.
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Refraction Villanelles
Posts: 464 | From: Southern England | Registered: Jul 2011
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Firenze
Ordinary decent pagan
# 619
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Posted
When you say 'literary British English' are you thinking of a vocabulary especially for poet-tree, or just English as spoken by literate people?
I don't think there is any one dialect for poetry: there's the language you need to make your point - a good example Tom Leonard's Six o'clock News.
Posts: 17302 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Jun 2001
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agingjb
Shipmate
# 16555
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Posted
Just the English I was taught at my school in the 1950s - a small country grammar school with a very good English teacher.
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Refraction Villanelles
Posts: 464 | From: Southern England | Registered: Jul 2011
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agingjb
Shipmate
# 16555
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Posted
To which I should add that I've described the English in which I try to write; I can, with luck, read an astonishing variety of dialects and variants of English.
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Refraction Villanelles
Posts: 464 | From: Southern England | Registered: Jul 2011
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