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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Talking to the air
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Lyda*Rose
Ship's broken porthole
# 4544
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Posted
This is embarrassing, but when I pray extemporaneously I have a feeling that I'm talking to the air, not to a person. In other situations when I talk to someone, there is a person I see or can experience. When I talk to God, even though I know he is listening, I feel silly and inept. I don't feel this quite so much when I chose an appropriate prayer from the BCP. I'm not sure why.
Does anyone else have this feeling and is there a remedy?
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"Dear God, whose name I do not know - thank you for my life. I forgot how BIG... thank you. Thank you for my life." ~from Joe Vs the Volcano
Posts: 21377 | From: CA | Registered: May 2003
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TurquoiseTastic
Fish of a different color
# 8978
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Posted
Might it help to write the prayer down, as though you were sending a letter?
Posts: 1092 | From: Hants., UK | Registered: Jan 2005
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Lyda*Rose
Ship's broken porthole
# 4544
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Posted
That's a thought. One doesn't expect an immediate, tangible response to a letter. It also came to me that praying to an image or icon might be good. I especially like the Divine Mercy image. At least I'd have a visual to focus on.
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"Dear God, whose name I do not know - thank you for my life. I forgot how BIG... thank you. Thank you for my life." ~from Joe Vs the Volcano
Posts: 21377 | From: CA | Registered: May 2003
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
Do you only have this when you're praying aloud, or also when you're innerly praying? I don't pray aloud a lot.
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
Posts: 9474 | From: Brazil / Africa | Registered: Aug 2002
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Lyda*Rose
Ship's broken porthole
# 4544
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Posted
Both, I'm afraid.
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"Dear God, whose name I do not know - thank you for my life. I forgot how BIG... thank you. Thank you for my life." ~from Joe Vs the Volcano
Posts: 21377 | From: CA | Registered: May 2003
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Oscar the Grouch
Adopted Cascadian
# 1916
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Lyda*Rose:
This is embarrassing, but when I pray extemporaneously I have a feeling that I'm talking to the air, not to a person. In other situations when I talk to someone, there is a person I see or can experience. When I talk to God, even though I know he is listening, I feel silly and inept. I don't feel this quite so much when I chose an appropriate prayer from the BCP. I'm not sure why.
Does anyone else have this feeling and is there a remedy?
a) Yes. For me, faith includes believing that my prayers are not just going into empty space, even though that is what I might feel.
b) I don't think that there's a full remedy. For me, it's just something I live with. It would be nice to always have the assurance that I "feel" my prayers are being heard. But I'm not that fortunate, it would seem. I don't think it makes me a bad Christian. (At least, I hope not!!)
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Faradiu, dundeibáwa weyu lárigi weyu
Posts: 3871 | From: Gamma Quadrant, just to the left of Galifrey | Registered: Dec 2001
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Lyda*Rose
Ship's broken porthole
# 4544
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Posted
Yeah, it's pretty dissatisfying, but I do have faith. My feelings are not the end-all. But the feelings sort of cut off a sense of closeness to God. And that is sad.
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"Dear God, whose name I do not know - thank you for my life. I forgot how BIG... thank you. Thank you for my life." ~from Joe Vs the Volcano
Posts: 21377 | From: CA | Registered: May 2003
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IngoB
Sentire cum Ecclesia
# 8700
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Posted
My take on this is that artifice is the grace killer. If you have nothing to say to God, then you have nothing to say to God. So what? That does not mean that you cannot pray. In fact, in my opinion the spiritual hierarchy of prayer has "silent" contemplation at the top, ritual / liturgical set prayer in the middle, and "chatting" prayer - whether inside your head or voiced - at the bottom. "And in praying do not heap up empty phrases as the Gentiles do; for they think that they will be heard for their many words." (Matt 6:7)
Personally, the only time I "talk" to God apart from ritual / liturgical prayer (mass, Divine Office, saying grace...) is when words burst forth spontaneously. And that usually means it's a case of snivelling begging (or "intercessory prayer", if you want to be nice about it) or rapid release of some strong tension / emotion ("ejaculatory prayer", the spiritual equivalent of expletives). I guess what sort of counts as well is when I have some internal debate, where I mull at length over things that have some religious connotations. Then I will sometimes end this by sort of tabling the whole mess with the higher Authority ("Yeah, well, I have no idea. Lord, could you please have a look at this?") But really the talking before that is more me talking to myself, if with a feeling of doing so before God.
I think your feeling that "chatting up God" is mildly absurd and basically "talking to the air" is telling you exactly what you should do. Namely stop doing that, and do something else with your prayer life. God is ever-present and closer to your heart than yourself anyhow. Prayer is about making you attend to God, not about making God attend to you. So use what gets you there, and drop what doesn't. The only time we should continue with spiritual practices that do not "click" for us is in a communal setting (there is great value in joining a community even if the means are not optimal for oneself), or when a competent spiritual director suggests that we should stretch ourselves in some way because we may be missing out on something. Otherwise, forget it.
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They’ll have me whipp’d for speaking true; thou’lt have me whipp’d for lying; and sometimes I am whipp’d for holding my peace. - The Fool in King Lear
Posts: 12010 | From: Gone fishing | Registered: Oct 2004
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Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528
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Posted
Have you tried telling God what you just told us (that it's like talking to air)? Couldn't hurt, though it might not help either. Sometimes I have a sense of his presence, but often a sense of his absence, and plenty of times a sense of nothing at all. But I'm not sure that's the same thing you mean.
One thing I did when I was first learning to pray (and still do, I'm very much a beginner). I had a corner set aside where I would do my praying, and some days I would galumph down in the corner, paste a surly look on my face, and say, "God, I'm here." And that was it for the minutes I was there. Just being there was all I had to give.
I think it was enough. It was certainly honest. And it was more important what God might want to do with me during that time than that I come up with things to say to him, whether I felt him or not.
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Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!
Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by IngoB:
My take on this is that artifice is the grace killer.
Well put, and I agree.
quote:
I think your feeling that "chatting up God" is mildly absurd and basically "talking to the air" is telling you exactly what you should do. Namely stop doing that, and do something else with your prayer life. God is ever-present and closer to your heart than yourself anyhow. Prayer is about making you attend to God, not about making God attend to you. So use what gets you there, and drop what doesn't. The only time we should continue with spiritual practices that do not "click" for us is in a communal setting (there is great value in joining a community even if the means are not optimal for oneself), or when a competent spiritual director suggests that we should stretch ourselves in some way because we may be missing out on something. Otherwise, forget it.
This makes a lot of sense. One of the outcomes of this board might be helping folk find ways to attend to God they hadn't treid before.
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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Sipech
Shipmate
# 16870
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Posted
I've always thought of prayer as one side of a conversation (the other side generally, but not wholly, consisting in bible study).
Though as with many conversations I find myself partaking in, there can be some very long awkward silences.
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I try to be self-deprecating; I'm just not very good at it.
Twitter: http://twitter.com/TheAlethiophile
Posts: 3791 | From: On the corporate ladder | Registered: Jan 2012
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balaam
Making an ass of myself
# 4543
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Posted
Long silences need not be awkward. But even with a history of silent prayer they can be. When see something devastating on the news I often feel I aught to pray, but I do't know what to say so I either feel uncomfortable about having nothing to say or I prattle on.
The prattling can be as uncomfortable as the silence. I know the theory, that we can take something to God and leave it there, but the practical side of things is that not saying anything and saying too much are both uncomfortable.
Embracing silence isn't easy.
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Last ever sig ...
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Posts: 9049 | From: Hen Ogledd | Registered: May 2003
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Lyda*Rose
Ship's broken porthole
# 4544
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Posted
balaam: quote:
Embracing silence isn't easy.
:sigh: You said it.
I appreciate what IngoB has to say about artifice, but my problem doesn't seem to be in feeling that I have to pray and then muffing it (although I did say I ended up feeling inept). I guess I'm wishing for more of a Br. Lawrence type approach, of easily sharing my thoughts with God on the go. A friend of mine speaks of talking to God A LOT every day, and it's a great comfort to her. Me, not so much; I envy her.
Probably I just have to accept me as me and work with what I have. I'll give letters to God a try, and pull out my BCP when I want to make intercessions for others and myself.
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"Dear God, whose name I do not know - thank you for my life. I forgot how BIG... thank you. Thank you for my life." ~from Joe Vs the Volcano
Posts: 21377 | From: CA | Registered: May 2003
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Fineline
Shipmate
# 12143
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Posted
I write down my prayers, because it's more concrete. When I pray in my head, even though I know God is listening, it doesn't feel like a real conversation, but just a jumble, because I am not getting immediate feedback as I would in a conversation with a human tangible person, and so the words feel like they are just floating away. But it's easier to conceptualise in writing, because I might write to a person and not get immediate feedback. And once I've written the prayers, they are not in a jumble, all loose and floating around in my head, but there on paper to return to. It's easier to conceptualise God keeping them and sharing them with me.
Posts: 2375 | From: England | Registered: Dec 2006
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Starbug
Shipmate
# 15917
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Posted
I recently started using Emotional Freedom Technique, which involves tapping on acupuncture points whilst talking about someone that bothers you. I soon found myself saying 'Amen' at the end of a round of tapping, even though it isn't a spiritual technique. I also find that I start off talking to myself about the problem, but then end up talking to God about it instead, finishing off with the Amen. I find this more helpful and 'real' than just praying. The combination of praying and tapping somehow makes it a more positive and 'definite' experience.
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“Oh the pointing again. They're screwdrivers! What are you going to do? Assemble a cabinet at them?” ― The Day of the Doctor
Posts: 1189 | From: West of the New Forest | Registered: Sep 2010
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Martin60
Shipmate
# 368
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Posted
In the words of Liam Devlin, entering The Studley Arms for the first time in Jack Higgins' The Eagle Has Landed: God bless all here.
What an exceptionally good thread I've come to murk.
IngoB on very best form.
I agree on the hierarchy of prayer. I oscillate between the first and third circles. I talk to God about His nullness. His Zenning ways. I visualize Him (Who? What?) exponentially less since seeing it months ago as silently willing us toward him, slapping His thighs in the fog to me a mad puppy gadding about deaf in in loss and shame and fear and the inner and outer howling and barking and growling that I can't stop. (Can I Ingo eh? ![[Smile]](smile.gif) ) By His grace I have some head space to commune in all this, tell Him what He knows. Realise that it's ALL OK. The broken ignorance.
The unknowing.
The realisation of Him by His grace, His word, The Spirit, in chinks of light in my benighted mind. Real, imagined, projected? It doesn't matter. Where I end and He begins. He's in the headspace. Those are His footprints on the sand. He is present. Always.
I tend to call Him Lord. I find His triunity distracting, confusing. I'm always looking for the right formula. And tell Him so. He nods in the fog. But Lord who?! Lord Father, Father, Abba, Daddy, Dad of Jesus Christ our Lord, Lord Jesus, Son of God, David, Man, Brother, Saviour, Friend. Spirit. Of Jesus. Of the Father. Holy Spirit, Dove, Eagle, Fire, Wind, Stream, Sip, Gelert [of] God.
Just a tad OCD
I said Lord just then and my eyes heated. He knows. He's here. As I write this and am therefore NOT present with Him who is until just before this paragraph for a moment.
Again, God bless all here.
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Love wins
Posts: 17586 | From: Never Dobunni after all. Corieltauvi after all. Just moved to the capital. | Registered: Jun 2001
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balaam
Making an ass of myself
# 4543
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Martin PC not & Ship's Biohazard:
His Zenning ways.
What a wonderful phrase.
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Last ever sig ...
blog
Posts: 9049 | From: Hen Ogledd | Registered: May 2003
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MrsBeaky
Shipmate
# 17663
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Posted
I love the idea of attending to God rather than trying to get him to attend to me.
I also think there's huge mileage/ wisdom in IngoB's advice: do what works.
(Your whole post was brilliant, thank you IngoB)
I personally find there's a difference between public/ private prayer and having sat through many a tricky session am no longer comfortable with a lot of extempore prayer- to me it seems far more appropriate for private devotions.
I also think sometimes words don't hack it so sometimes I use posture/ music/ one word meditations.
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"It is better to be kind than right."
http://davidandlizacooke.wordpress.com
Posts: 693 | From: UK/ Kenya | Registered: Apr 2013
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marzipan
Shipmate
# 9442
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Posted
I used to write letters to God. I wrote them in Welsh as i didn't want anyone else to find them & read them (plus it helped me to think about what i was trying to say)
About the only prayer I can manage lately is 'Are you there?' but that's probably a different thread.
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formerly cheesymarzipan.
Now containing 50% less cheese
Posts: 917 | From: nowhere in particular | Registered: May 2005
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Lyda*Rose
Ship's broken porthole
# 4544
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Posted
I'm baaack. ![[Biased]](wink.gif)
Once many years ago, I spoke to our newly installed priest about this issue. She told me that living my life mindful of God was prayer. That helped a bit. And frankly, back then when I was recovering from a breakdown, I felt much closer to God and hung on to him for dear life. Such is the gift of suffering.
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"Dear God, whose name I do not know - thank you for my life. I forgot how BIG... thank you. Thank you for my life." ~from Joe Vs the Volcano
Posts: 21377 | From: CA | Registered: May 2003
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