|
Source: (consider it)
|
Thread: "We are colour-blind"
|
Alan Cresswell
Mad Scientist 先生
# 31
|
Posted
Well, that's how Mr Farage describes his party. Or, he said before back-peddling.
Race relations legislation are among that list of laws I would be delighted to see abolished when they are genuinely no longer needed. It would be brilliant if Britain were truly colour-blind, and we didn't need laws to prevent discrimination and harassment against people who happen to have a different skin tone, be born in different countries, or otherwise differ from what someone like Farage would arbitrarily describe as "British".
But, with over 3000 employment related cases under the race relations acts per year (plus however many under other parts of the acts) we're a long way from that. And, the likes of Farage making comments about who he would want to live next to he's not leading people the right way to make things better.
--------------------
Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.
Posts: 32413 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Jane R
Shipmate
# 331
|
Posted
<sarcasm on> Oh, I think he could legitimately claim to be "colour-blind" - he is prejudiced against white people from other parts of Europe, too. <\sarcasm off> Witness his recent remarks about Romanians.
Posts: 3958 | From: Jorvik | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
marzipan
Shipmate
# 9442
|
Posted
as I just saw on FB:
quote:
Farage saying racism is no longer a problem is like having the dangers of antibiotic resistance dismissed by a talking petri dish of MRSA.
(or perhaps he meant - we're not just racists, we're also sexist homophobic probably ageist bigots so basically we hate everyone ever)
--------------------
formerly cheesymarzipan.
Now containing 50% less cheese
Posts: 917 | From: nowhere in particular | Registered: May 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
Liopleurodon
Mighty sea creature
# 4836
|
Posted
Nobody's colour-blind. Hell, even blind people have an idea of different ethnicities and how society perceives them, even if they can't physically see skin colour. More often than not it's just the go-to phrase of people who don't want to accept that racism is a problem that they should have to do anything about.
--------------------
Our God is an awesome God. Much better than that ridiculous God that Desert Bluffs has. - Welcome to Night Vale
Posts: 1921 | From: Lurking under the ship | Registered: Aug 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
Porridge
Shipmate
# 15405
|
Posted
It's possible that color-blindness isn't even a good idea.
Individual human beings differ; most of us understand this and (in widely varying degrees & ways) accept this fact, positively or negatively -- that is, we may celebrate difference, or deplore it, or fail to notice difference. As humans are also social beings, we tend to identify ourselves as belonging to various subgroups which also differ. Some of these differences are visible, like skin color or eyefold formation; many others aren't.
It seems to me that we get into conflict with each other as readily by ignoring -- that is, failing to acknowledge, respect, and accommodate -- difference as we do by focusing on it.
--------------------
Spiggott: Everything I've ever told you is a lie, including that.
Moon: Including what?
Spiggott: That everything I've ever told you is a lie.
Moon: That's not true!
Posts: 3925 | From: Upper right corner | Registered: Jan 2010
| IP: Logged
|
|
LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
|
Posted
Years ago, there was a anti-racism campaign in my country which had as its slogan "Be colour-blind". I don't agree with this.
--------------------
I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
Posts: 9474 | From: Brazil / Africa | Registered: Aug 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
|
Posted
I argue that race and colour perception is heavily culturally influenced from my personal experience. Having spent the first parts of my life in an area where the majority of people were Cree, with the next largest groups Métis and Dené, I remember being shocked at coming to the city and someone singling out a girl I knew as 'black'. I had no reference for this and thought she was simply the same as the rest of us. With the subsequent development of the understanding of the terms of reference common elsewhere, I understand that her tightly curled hair and brown complexion are labelled 'black', but I find myself able as an older adult to do a perceptual 'code switch' and see people who might be seen as black in some contexts as not. The current American president is about as 'black' as my friend was.
[You've got to be] Carefully Taught, youtube link to the song from South Pacific, the musical. I agree with James A. Michener on this. You have to carefully taught and enculturated to be racially conscious and racist, and it is possible to be at least somewhat colour blind.
--------------------
Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
\_(ツ)_/
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
| IP: Logged
|
|
orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Porridge:
It seems to me that we get into conflict with each other as readily by ignoring -- that is, failing to acknowledge, respect, and accommodate -- difference as we do by focusing on it.
Absolutely. Because, as I occasionally mention on these boards drawing from whatever stuff they threw at me in human rights law lectures all those years ago, discrimination does not just consist of taking irrelevant differences into account. It also consists of failing to take relevant differences into account.
The question/problem is: when is this difference relevant? Not often, but sometimes it is. Mostly because skin colour can be an indicator of heritage and culture, which, unlike the amount of melanin in a person's skin as an objective fact, can be quite important.
People want a nice simple concrete rule like "always be colour-blind", but that just doesn't work any more than "always be gender-blind" works - because there ARE times, occasionally, when the differences between men and women are relevant. We need to be contextual, which is more difficult.
--------------------
Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
Marvin the Martian
Interplanetary
# 4360
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by LeRoc:
Years ago, there was a anti-racism campaign in my country which had as its slogan "Be colour-blind". I don't agree with this.
I thought the whole point of anti-racism - a point that I heartily support - is to treat everyone the same regardless of race.
If that's not the same as "colour-blindness" then what is?
--------------------
Hail Gallaxhar
Posts: 30100 | From: Adrift on a sea of surreality | Registered: Apr 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
Teufelchen
Shipmate
# 10158
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
quote:
Originally posted by LeRoc:
Years ago, there was a anti-racism campaign in my country which had as its slogan "Be colour-blind". I don't agree with this.
I thought the whole point of anti-racism - a point that I heartily support - is to treat everyone the same regardless of race.
If that's not the same as "colour-blindness" then what is?
People's existing situations, due to existing and historic racism, are not the same. Ignoring that effect isn't treating people fairly: it's expecting the unprivileged to compete with the privileged as though the playing field were level.
t
--------------------
Little devil
Posts: 3894 | From: London area | Registered: Aug 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Teufelchen:
People's existing situations, due to existing and historic racism, are not the same. Ignoring that effect isn't treating people fairly: it's expecting the unprivileged to compete with the privileged as though the playing field were level.
t
Exactly. Fixing this is often what the "I don't see colour" brigade fight doing.
--------------------
I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
|
Posted
Being colour-blind is precisely what used to get you only one kind of "flesh-toned" Band-Aid.
--------------------
Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
Huia
Shipmate
# 3473
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
Being colour-blind is precisely what used to get you only one kind of "flesh-toned" Band-Aid.
When I bought my first pair of hearing aids about 8 years ago that yukky "Band-Aid flesh tone was one of colour options for the piece behind the ear. Three years ago they had changed it to a transparent option.
I chose purple both times.
Huia
--------------------
Charity gives food from the table, Justice gives a place at the table.
Posts: 10382 | From: Te Wai Pounamu | Registered: Oct 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
|
Posted
It's easy to claim to be colour-blind when you don't live, day in and day out, with the deleterious effects of being discriminated against for the color of your skin. People don't get arrested for driving while pasty white, but black people are regularly pulled over if they're driving in a tony neighborhood. Being colour-blind means pretending this doesn't happen. You can't fight racism if you pretend it doesn't exist.
In short, "I'm colour blind" is the statement of white privilege.
--------------------
This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
|
Posted
I'm all for equal rights, but if I take the term 'colour-blind' quite literally, it would mean that I wouldn't see anymore that people are black. For many of them, their blackness is part of their identy, and I can't deny that to them.
--------------------
I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
Posts: 9474 | From: Brazil / Africa | Registered: Aug 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
Marvin the Martian
Interplanetary
# 4360
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
People don't get arrested for driving while pasty white, but black people are regularly pulled over if they're driving in a tony neighborhood. Being colour-blind means pretending this doesn't happen.
The hell it does. Treating everybody the same way is the polar opposite of that kind of racial profiling.
--------------------
Hail Gallaxhar
Posts: 30100 | From: Adrift on a sea of surreality | Registered: Apr 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
People don't get arrested for driving while pasty white, but black people are regularly pulled over if they're driving in a tony neighborhood. Being colour-blind means pretending this doesn't happen.
The hell it does. Treating everybody the same way is the polar opposite of that kind of racial profiling.
You know, I'm not sure I understand either of you guys. Maybe you're just too angry and/or wedded to your own rhetoric.
--------------------
"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
| IP: Logged
|
|
Kitten
Shipmate
# 1179
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
People don't get arrested for driving while pasty white,
People are often stopped for driving while young and male, irrespective of their colour,
--------------------
Maius intra qua extra
Never accept a ride from a stranger, unless they are in a big blue box
Posts: 2330 | From: Carmarthenshire | Registered: Aug 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
People don't get arrested for driving while pasty white, but black people are regularly pulled over if they're driving in a tony neighborhood. Being colour-blind means pretending this doesn't happen.
The hell it does. Treating everybody the same way is the polar opposite of that kind of racial profiling.
"Color blind" doesn't mean treating everybody the same way. It means pretending there are no differences. Which would include pretending there are no differences in the way people are treated. Until we have equality, we cannot afford to be color blind. It perpetuates injustice.
quote:
Originally posted by Kitten:
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
People don't get arrested for driving while pasty white,
People are often stopped for driving while young and male, irrespective of their colour,
So start a thread "we are gender blind" and don't hijack this one. This is more white privilege talking. "But white people are discriminated against tooooooo! Waaaaah!"
Good show.
--------------------
This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Teufelchen
Shipmate
# 10158
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
People don't get arrested for driving while pasty white, but black people are regularly pulled over if they're driving in a tony neighborhood. Being colour-blind means pretending this doesn't happen.
The hell it does. Treating everybody the same way is the polar opposite of that kind of racial profiling.
You know, I'm not sure I understand either of you guys. Maybe you're just too angry and/or wedded to your own rhetoric.
They appear to be at cross purposes. Sure, a mythical colour-blind cop might not produce the wildly biased stop patterns that real flesh-and-blood cops do. But a colour-blind observer of those real cops would not notice the bias, or think it relevant, because hey, 99% of targets being black is just the same as 30%, right?
If we ignore race, we ignore the effects of racism.
t
--------------------
Little devil
Posts: 3894 | From: London area | Registered: Aug 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
Kitten
Shipmate
# 1179
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
People don't get arrested for driving while pasty white, but black people are regularly pulled over if they're driving in a tony neighborhood. Being colour-blind means pretending this doesn't happen.
The hell it does. Treating everybody the same way is the polar opposite of that kind of racial profiling.
"Color blind" doesn't mean treating everybody the same way. It means pretending there are no differences. Which would include pretending there are no differences in the way people are treated. Until we have equality, we cannot afford to be color blind. It perpetuates injustice.
quote:
Originally posted by Kitten:
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
People don't get arrested for driving while pasty white,
People are often stopped for driving while young and male, irrespective of their colour,
So start a thread "we are gender blind" and don't hijack this one. This is more white privilege talking. "But white people are discriminated against tooooooo! Waaaaah!"
Good show.
My point was not to imply white people are discriminated against but to suggest that if a young black male driver is stopped, it is not automatically their race that is a factor
--------------------
Maius intra qua extra
Never accept a ride from a stranger, unless they are in a big blue box
Posts: 2330 | From: Carmarthenshire | Registered: Aug 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
|
Posted
First of all, mousethief, you don't get to dictate the course of threads. Second of all, when someone says "young and male, irrespective of colour" and you shout "WHITE PRIVILEGE!" you just look bloody stupid. Irrespective of colour doesn't mean white.
You brought up driving. To accuse someone of derailing the thread because they tried to suggest that, actually, your assertion that race is the big factor in being pulled over might not be correct, and that age and gender might be big factors, is just showing that you've decided to be an insecure little twerp who can't handle being challenged.
[ 13. March 2015, 13:34: Message edited by: orfeo ]
--------------------
Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
Teufelchen
Shipmate
# 10158
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
First of all, mousethief, you don't get to dictate the course of threads. Second of all, when someone says "young and male, irrespective of colour" and you shout "WHITE PRIVILEGE!" you just look bloody stupid. Irrespective of colour doesn't mean white.
This is exactly the sort of thing we're talking about. If one person says that a particular demographic, partly defined by race, is discriminated against, then responding that an otherwise identical group without a racial identifier is also discriminated against may or may not be true, may or may not be helpful.
But erasing blackness from the equation certainly can be a manifestation of white privilege. 'Regardless of race' can be that, if it means 'ignore the specifically black aspects of this story'.
Anyone actually got stats on motor vehicle stops by demographic characteristics of drivers? Do we actually know which factors produce statistically significant differences?
t
--------------------
Little devil
Posts: 3894 | From: London area | Registered: Aug 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Teufelchen:
Anyone actually got stats on motor vehicle stops by demographic characteristics of drivers? Do we actually know which factors produce statistically significant differences?
t
Who cares? Mousethief has already declared for us the answer. That's my point. He doesn't want anyone to do something daring like look at facts.
When statistics and data were brought into the Ferguson debate to show that, hey, there was data that suggested that black cops were more likely to shoot blacks and white cops were more likely to shoot whites, the twists and turns that people went through to deny that this could even possibly be true were a sight to behold.
Don't get me wrong, I'm convinced that prejudice exists. But it becomes a mantra incapable of being questioned.
[ 13. March 2015, 13:39: Message edited by: orfeo ]
--------------------
Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
Teufelchen
Shipmate
# 10158
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
When statistics and data were brought into the Ferguson debate to show that, hey, there was data that suggested that black cops were more likely to shoot blacks and white cops were more likely to shoot whites, the twists and turns that people went through to deny that this could even possibly be true were a sight to behold.
Did anybody bother to look for obvious confounders? Like the numbers of police of different races sent to neighbourhoods with different demographic makeup? Or the kinds of reasons and circumstances involved in each shooting?
Because the excuses produced in the recently-reported cases of cops shooting black men seem flimsy enough to suggest that there's a high degree of racism involved in those cases, separate from questions about the background rate.
But by all means go on trying to ignore the racial element.
t
--------------------
Little devil
Posts: 3894 | From: London area | Registered: Aug 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
When statistics and data were brought into the Ferguson debate to show that, hey, there was data that suggested that black cops were more likely to shoot blacks and white cops were more likely to shoot whites, the twists and turns that people went through to deny that this could even possibly be true were a sight to behold.
Alright, what do you think this statistic means?
--------------------
I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
deano
princess
# 12063
|
Posted
I am red/green colour blind you racist fascists!
How do you think people like me feel when bigots like you lot hijack OUR WORDS, for yourselves and abuse them.
Find your own phrases you Nazi's!!!!
Posts: 2118 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: Nov 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
Lyda*Rose
Ship's broken porthole
# 4544
|
Posted
![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
--------------------
"Dear God, whose name I do not know - thank you for my life. I forgot how BIG... thank you. Thank you for my life." ~from Joe Vs the Volcano
Posts: 21377 | From: CA | Registered: May 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
Doc Tor
Deepest Red
# 9748
|
Posted
I don't know what's worse. The notion that deano thinks his post is funny, or that he can't use an apostrophe correctly.
Go home, deano. You're drunk.
--------------------
Forward the New Republic
Posts: 9131 | From: Ultima Thule | Registered: Jul 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
molopata
The Ship's jack
# 9933
|
Posted
But Farage, like Deano, is colour-blind. He thinks purely in terms of black and white.
--------------------
... The Respectable
Posts: 1718 | From: the abode of my w@ndering mind | Registered: Aug 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
When statistics and data were brought into the Ferguson debate to show that, hey, there was data that suggested that black cops were more likely to shoot blacks and white cops were more likely to shoot whites, the twists and turns that people went through to deny that this could even possibly be true were a sight to behold.
Alright, what do you think this statistic means?
It means, combined with the overall rate of shooting by race of cop, there's no evidence that white cops suddenly get trigger happy in the one permutation that gets all the headlines.
If we're going to accept and make use of the statistic that police in Ferguson have been racially biased in their arrest rates, then surely we should also be accepting other statistics that don't indicate a national bias in shootings.
[ 13. March 2015, 22:13: Message edited by: orfeo ]
--------------------
Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
|
Posted
Personally, I think it represents something good and something terrifying.
Good in that education/awareness can have an effect. Bad in that it means cops* will do what they think they can get away with, rather than what is right.
What it does not say is that racial bias has changed.
*A significant portion, not all of them.
--------------------
I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
Personally, I think it represents something good and something terrifying.
Good in that education/awareness can have an effect. Bad in that it means cops* will do what they think they can get away with, rather than what is right.
What it does not say is that racial bias has changed.
*A significant portion, not all of them.
You are giving me a serious WTF moment. I don't even know which "it" you're talking about for certain, but right now you sound like the loopiest conspiracy theorist going "ah, but they all collude across the entire continent to make sure that they shoot enough white people to keep the score even and make sure that their shootings of black people don't look suspicious".
[ 13. March 2015, 23:45: Message edited by: orfeo ]
--------------------
Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
|
Posted
Dude. You aren't stupid, connect a few more cells.
It isn't a fucking conspiracy.
Cops know they face more questions when they shoot someone of another colour/group than if they shoot one of their "own", so they are less likely to show restraint in encounters with like than with unlike. That they do show restraint in this aspect shows that they are capable in others, but do not exercise said restraint.
More simply put in case this is still necessary:
If a x colour cop shoots a x colour person, it is less likely that bias will be considered a factor.
--------------------
I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
More simply put in case this is still necessary:
If a x colour cop shoots a x colour person, it is less likely that bias will be considered a factor.
That's like saying that if I run over a dog in my car, it is less likely that my alleged hatred of cats will be considered a factor.
And that this is conclusive proof that I really do hate cats, but take extra precautions to avoid hitting them so that no-one has any concrete evidence.
Honestly, you could not get a better example of fitting the facts to a pre-existing conclusion.
Suppose, just suppose, that in my heart of hearts I really do harbour a serious dislike of cats. If this does not actually show in my behaviour towards cats, and in fact my behaviour could equally be explained by the far less complex proposition that I am neutral about cats, why the fuck does anyone care?
[ 14. March 2015, 00:36: Message edited by: orfeo ]
--------------------
Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
|
Posted
Orfeo:
Fuck yourself. And don't even think you can talk for me or say what I think or desire.
--------------------
This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
Fuck yourself.
Hand me the dildo when you've finished with it.
--------------------
Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
Fuck yourself.
Hand me the dildo when you've finished with it.
Clever one. You're like deano, only more Australian.
--------------------
This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
|
Posted
Like deano? Deano?
![[Killing me]](graemlins/killingme.gif)
Ah, I needed a laugh. Later today I'm hoping it won't be a half-sarcastic, angry, bitter laugh at the sheer moronity of people trying to teach me all about human rights and discrimination law when I've actually studied and worked in those areas and they're just operating off some kind of cultural vibe, but it's a start. And comparing me to the Ship's resident right-wing nutjob who wants to carpet-bomb Iraq and can't distinguish one bunch of towelheads from another and solves his personal problems by putting people in hospital IS genuinely amusing.
--------------------
Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
Dave W.
Shipmate
# 8765
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
And comparing me to the Ship's resident right-wing nutjob who ... solves his personal problems by putting people in hospital IS genuinely amusing.
Did you really buy that story about how he supposedly severely injured one of his playmates?
Posts: 2059 | From: the hub of the solar system | Registered: Nov 2004
| IP: Logged
|
|
mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
And comparing me to the Ship's resident right-wing nutjob who wants to carpet-bomb Iraq and can't distinguish one bunch of towelheads from another and solves his personal problems by putting people in hospital IS genuinely amusing.
Ah, so you're still in denial. Because right- or left-wing doesn't matter in how one reacts to people one disagrees with. In that matter, you two are twins.
--------------------
This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
And comparing me to the Ship's resident right-wing nutjob who wants to carpet-bomb Iraq and can't distinguish one bunch of towelheads from another and solves his personal problems by putting people in hospital IS genuinely amusing.
Ah, so you're still in denial. Because right- or left-wing doesn't matter in how one reacts to people one disagrees with. In that matter, you two are twins.
Disagree with? I hardly ever disagree with you, mousethief. In fact it might even have been deano who accused of being each other's sockpuppets or having a society with decoder rings. What I disagree with is the way you sometimes have of handling your own disputes, and in this case you basically tried to junior Host Hell. When has any Hellhost appreciated that move by anyone?
You were jerkish and hysterical. The main thing that your angry "you can't talk about prejudice against young males, that's denying prejudice against blacks, WHITE PRIVILEGE" outburst reminded me of is the folk who start yelling about anti-Semitism the minute anyone suggests that Israel isn't perfect.
[ 14. March 2015, 02:24: Message edited by: orfeo ]
--------------------
Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
|
Posted
The problem is when someone starts a "black lives matter" hashtag and white people start whining "but white lives matter tooooooo!!!!!"
Which is fatuous, and denies black people a right to bitch about their own problems without having white people define the discussion. It is, in fact, a manifestation of white privilege.
--------------------
This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
More simply put in case this is still necessary:
If a x colour cop shoots a x colour person, it is less likely that bias will be considered a factor.
That's like saying that if I run over a dog in my car, it is less likely that my alleged hatred of cats will be considered a factor.
And that this is conclusive proof that I really do hate cats, but take extra precautions to avoid hitting them so that no-one has any concrete evidence.
Honestly, you could not get a better example of fitting the facts to a pre-existing conclusion.
Suppose, just suppose, that in my heart of hearts I really do harbour a serious dislike of cats. If this does not actually show in my behaviour towards cats, and in fact my behaviour could equally be explained by the far less complex proposition that I am neutral about cats, why the fuck does anyone care?
Except this is a poor example. To make it comparable, you would have to be the local animal control. Previously, you had run over cats as well as rounded them up for incarceration and euthanasia. You have been lectured to try not to run them over and so now you are more careful not to run them over as often. You still round them up without due care to determine they are strays or feral. And you treat them more harshly when you do catch them.
1. Some cops are racist and hate.
2. Some cops are racist and don't hate.
3. Some cops are not racist but think minorities are more likely to be criminals due to circumstance.
4. Some cops are as neutral as possible.
Good so far?
I think the last category is the rarest, because neutrality is rare in people across the board.
--------------------
I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
|
Posted
How's that again?
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
...towelheads...
c.f. quote:
http://movies.about.com/od/towelhead/a/towelheadtitle.htm
Towelhead, like its many cousins -- nigger, spic, gook, etc. -- is an ugly word.
[ 14. March 2015, 02:54: Message edited by: no prophet's flag is set so... ]
--------------------
Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
\_(ツ)_/
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
| IP: Logged
|
|
orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
The problem is when someone starts a "black lives matter" hashtag and white people start whining "but white lives matter tooooooo!!!!!"
Which is fatuous, and denies black people a right to bitch about their own problems without having white people define the discussion. It is, in fact, a manifestation of white privilege.
...I'm sorry, did I miss a phase where you suddenly acquired a lot of melanin? You ARE a white person defining the discussion. Or trying to.
--------------------
Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
The problem is when someone starts a "black lives matter" hashtag and white people start whining "but white lives matter tooooooo!!!!!"
Which is fatuous, and denies black people a right to bitch about their own problems without having white people define the discussion. It is, in fact, a manifestation of white privilege.
...I'm sorry, did I miss a phase where you suddenly acquired a lot of melanin? You ARE a white person defining the discussion. Or trying to.
Can you try just a little harder to miss the point? You're almost completely there, but it could use a tiny bit of work.
--------------------
This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:
How's that again?
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
...towelheads...
c.f. quote:
http://movies.about.com/od/towelhead/a/towelheadtitle.htm
Towelhead, like its many cousins -- nigger, spic, gook, etc. -- is an ugly word.
I know it's an ugly word. That was kinda the point in doing my best deano impression.
--------------------
Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
The problem is when someone starts a "black lives matter" hashtag and white people start whining "but white lives matter tooooooo!!!!!"
Which is fatuous, and denies black people a right to bitch about their own problems without having white people define the discussion. It is, in fact, a manifestation of white privilege.
...I'm sorry, did I miss a phase where you suddenly acquired a lot of melanin? You ARE a white person defining the discussion. Or trying to.
Can you try just a little harder to miss the point? You're almost completely there, but it could use a tiny bit of work.
What point do you think I'm missing? My criticism isn't of your view that people get pulled over for 'driving while black'. I have in fact explicitly agreed with that proposition on a previous thread. My criticism is of your attempts to control the discussion, and for you to complain about white people defining the discussion is quite bizarre.
Whatever point you think you're making, that's the point that I was making.
--------------------
Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
|
Posted
So you see no difference between:
A. From one white person to another, don't be a dick who tries to tell black people what they can and cannot talk about
and
B. Hey black people, you can't talk about that without also talking about what I want to talk about.
??
Seriously? Because you are conflating them. I am saying that (B) is not acceptable. In order to say (B) is not acceptable, I have to say (A). But to you they're the same thing.
Interesting.
--------------------
This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Printer-friendly view
