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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Imaginative Contemplation
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kingsfold
Shipmate
# 1726
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Posted
I first came upon imaginative contemplation many years ago on a guided retreat in daily life. The experience was a total disaster and put me off ever trying to do anything like that again (the retreat in daily life, I mean), largely because I couldn’t pray in that way, as my guide was suggesting, and I wasn’t able to articulate what the problem was so we weren’t able to move past that.
Anyhow, fast forward twenty or so years and whilst I have no desire to run away from guided retreats any more, I still really, really struggle with imaginative contemplation. I know it’s simply a way to pray – one of many – and that I should pray as I can, not as I can’t. But sometimes it “works” and I’ve had some incredibly powerful and moving experiences praying in this way, and so I think for me it’s probably something I need to keep struggling with from time to time.
So how do other folk get on with imaginative contemplation? My brain really isn’t wired visually, and so generally I have a hard time the minute you say “imagine this scene.” I know that imagination isn’t or needn’t be limited to visuals, but I find it really hard to get past that and find my “way in” to what’s going on.
Do you practice imaginative contemplation? Is it something you find worthwhile/moving/revealing? And how do you find your “way in”?
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I came to Jesus and I found in him my star, my sun.
And in that light of life I'll walk 'til travelling days are done
Posts: 4473 | From: land of the wee midgie | Registered: Nov 2001
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
I came across imaginative contemplation as a teenager and took to it like a duck to water. Admittedly, at the time it involved Tarot cards, but the principles can be (and subsequently were) applied to other things.
I find visualizations much the easiest way of working. Reading a novel can often be like watching a film scene unfold; in fact, thinking about it now, I find I usually need to compose a mental image of the leading characters to peg the story on. And so the same is true of the Gospel stories.
Suppose you were writing a scene in a novel (first-person, you're in it too). You'd describe the main character, what the setting was, what he said, what your honest, immediate reaction to it was... that sort of thing. It takes practice but it really can be worth it, as you've discovered yourself.
Different people need different things. Some people find the old traditional prayers are just what they need, some people derive great comfort from the Mass, others find it easier to visualize scenes or contemplate symbols.
[ 17. September 2014, 19:01: Message edited by: Ariel ]
Posts: 25445 | Registered: May 2001
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Thyme
Shipmate
# 12360
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by kingsfold:
I still really, really struggle with imaginative contemplation.[snip] But sometimes it “works” and I’ve had some incredibly powerful and moving experiences praying in this way, and so I think for me it’s probably something I need to keep struggling with from time to time.
I feel very similarly!
However I did the 30 Day Ignatian Spiritual Exercises at St Beuno’s and then another course about the exercises and that taught me a few things.
It's never going to be my first choice of prayer, it is very much my 'shadow side'. But forcing myself to develop it has been very rewarding.
It was hard work on the retreat because nothing happened! I just felt like a total failure. But apparently this is quite a common experience. And it would be wrong really to say that nothing happened, I had some very intense insights through the dreamwork and artwork that were transformative. But the sitting with a bible passage for an hour five times a day was hard work.
But the first 8 day guided retreat I went on, lots of things, songs – some hymns, some pop songs, personal history, bible passages came to mind involuntarily and the directors suggestions just acted as springboards to set me on the way and allow me to open myself to the guidance of the Holy Spirit. That was a very healing retreat.
I still can't force myself into a bible scene, but I can sit with a passage and read and re-read it for the required length of time and think about how it might have been and how the different characters might have felt. What I might have done/thought.
I also can’t cope with the lists of questions – my brain just freezes.
What I find is that I will find myself thinking about the passage in daily life – something like ‘I bet this is how XXX character felt’ I remember working up a good rant in the character of Martha while I was on a walk.
I admit that I rarely intentionally sit with a passage trying to do imaginative contemplation outside a retreat or quiet day. But I do read the Bible regularly, both via the daily office lectionary and the ‘Bible in One Year’ reading plan. So this gives me plenty of food for thought in daily life.
One exercise was writing out a passage and inserting my own name in the relevant places. A favourite with the retreat directors for this is Hosea 11: 1-4. I’d have to get my file to find the others, pm me if you are interested.
Also there is praying with the senses, just being aware of sights, sounds, tastes, smells, touch and being very present to the experience and giving thanks. Again, I have some resources on this if you want them.
I can’t cope with these ‘led’ meditations you get with someone telling to feel this or that, or visualise the other. If I have to take part I usually drift off somewhere else or just wait for it to be over. And I think a lot of what is labelled ‘Ignatian’ is not the real deal. Plus there is an awful lot more to Ignatian spirituality than imaginative contemplation which is what the term ‘Ignatian’ is generally used as shorthand for.
I do think you were short changed on your first guided retreat if your guide had no other resources than one method to offer you and help you find out what was best for you at that time.
A retreat in daily life shouldn't be restricted to doing imaginative contemplation, especially if even that isn't very well presented.
[ 17. September 2014, 20:09: Message edited by: Thyme ]
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The Church in its own bubble has become, at best the guardian of the value system of the nation’s grandparents, and at worst a den of religious anoraks defined by defensiveness, esoteric logic and discrimination. Bishop of Buckingham's blog
Posts: 600 | From: Cloud Cuckoo Land | Registered: Feb 2007
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Curiosity killed ...
Ship's Mug
# 11770
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Posted
It's not something I get much out of either. I've done it as an exercise a few times and fairly effortlessly do the descriptions as to what it would be like for the different people there, which others who were there enjoyed. But for me it's just a lot of unnecessary padding to get where I am anyway from reading.
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Mugs - Keep the Ship afloat
Posts: 13794 | From: outiside the outer ring road | Registered: Aug 2006
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Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528
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Posted
I have Lewis' problem, where, if told to imagine a biblical scene, I start going all archaeological and saying in my head, "No, I've got that bit wrong" and so forth. Endless elaboration and self-critique. And I can't turn off the critic.
I do better with visuals of situations which are NOT described in the Scripture, e.g. The moment of Jesus' resurrection, or what it would be like to be there with Jesus while he was otherwise alone, praying on a mountain or in the wilderness. I guess because there's not so much to get wrong.
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Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!
Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004
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Thyme
Shipmate
# 12360
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Posted
quote:
Crap spouted by leo:
BTW does anyone know where * can get some recorded meditations of this kind? * have a visually impaired friend who wants to try them.
* have found a few suggestions. Will post links later.
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The Church in its own bubble has become, at best the guardian of the value system of the nation’s grandparents, and at worst a den of religious anoraks defined by defensiveness, esoteric logic and discrimination. Bishop of Buckingham's blog
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Thyme
Shipmate
# 12360
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Posted
There are a lot of free audio versions of the Bible and also devotional material in Bible Gateway
Also David Suchets eading of the Bible
These would be excellent for biblical imaginative contemplation.
For guided meditations - if you google Christian meditation you tube you will find a variety of stuff. * guess the quality will be very variable and * haven't listened to them.
Amazon has various resources
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The Church in its own bubble has become, at best the guardian of the value system of the nation’s grandparents, and at worst a den of religious anoraks defined by defensiveness, esoteric logic and discrimination. Bishop of Buckingham's blog
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leo
Shipmate
# 1458
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Posted
Thank you - however maybe * didn't describe what * was looking for in enough detail.
* am thinking of the guided narratives e.g.
You hear that Jesus was come to town. How does it feel knowing that you have no way of getting into the crowded house?........As you can't walk, how does it feel to have to be totally dependent on others? ....To take you to the toilet...to give you money because you can't work?.....
Some of you friends say they are going to get you * through the roof. How do you feel now? Perhaps you are excited...perhaps you are frightened of the row it will cause....
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My Jewish-positive lectionary blog is at http://recognisingjewishrootsinthelectionary.wordpress.com/
My reviews at http://layreadersbookreviews.wordpress.com
Posts: 23198 | From: Bristol | Registered: Oct 2001
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kingsfold
Shipmate
# 1726
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Posted
It’s reassuring to discover that I’m not the only one who struggles with this.
As I said, my brain really isn’t wired visually, which means that I don’t create mental images of characters or situations when I read. So I really have no sense of what a character or a scene looks like unless the author explicitly says he has red hair/she walks with a limp/it was peat moorland and pissing with rain etc etc . So you can see that the conventional imagining a scene is mostly a non-starter. I’ve had more success with trying to work with how characters might feel, or how I might feel in that scenario.
I guess this is never going to be my first choice of prayer, which is fine. But I do want to try and develop it a bit as it does take me places other prayer doesn’t.
quote:
posted by Thyme:
I do think you were short changed on your first guided retreat if your guide had no other resources than one method to offer you and help you find out what was best for you at that time.
A retreat in daily life shouldn't be restricted to doing imaginative contemplation, especially if even that isn't very well presented.
The bad experience was a long time ago, when I was a lot younger and a lot less able to articulate what was or wasn’t happening. It was also a one-off: I’ve done a number of retreats in daily life since, and IGR, and my guides have been great and very able to deal with my lack of visual imagination. And that, in part, is why I am more willing to give it a go, even though I find it difficult.
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I came to Jesus and I found in him my star, my sun.
And in that light of life I'll walk 'til travelling days are done
Posts: 4473 | From: land of the wee midgie | Registered: Nov 2001
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balaam
Making an ass of myself
# 4543
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by kingsfold:
It’s reassuring to discover that I’m not the only one who struggles with this.
I guess this is never going to be my first choice of prayer, which is fine. But I do want to try and develop it a bit as it does take me places other prayer doesn’t.
Trying something you find difficult can be difficult. I find that not knowing what the place looked like isn't a problem, I tend to imagine Jesus speaking words in places I am familiar with: The sermon on the Mount in Golcar above Huddersfield for instance.
Imagining the Bible being spoken into your personal situation can help as well as the traditiona way of imagining.
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Last ever sig ...
blog
Posts: 9049 | From: Hen Ogledd | Registered: May 2003
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Fineline
Shipmate
# 12143
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Posted
I'm very visual and this sort of thing comes naturally to me. I've always done it. I didn't know it was called 'imaginative contemplation'.
Posts: 2375 | From: England | Registered: Dec 2006
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Thyme
Shipmate
# 12360
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by leo:
Thank you - however maybe * didn't describe what * was looking for in enough detail.
* am thinking of the guided narratives e.g.
You hear that Jesus was come to town. How does it feel knowing that you have no way of getting into the crowded house?........As you can't walk, how does it feel to have to be totally dependent on others? ....To take you to the toilet...to give you money because you can't work?.....
Some of you friends say they are going to get you * through the roof. How do you feel now? Perhaps you are excited...perhaps you are frightened of the row it will cause....
I've just come across this
Imaginative Contemplation
and remembered this thread.
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The Church in its own bubble has become, at best the guardian of the value system of the nation’s grandparents, and at worst a den of religious anoraks defined by defensiveness, esoteric logic and discrimination. Bishop of Buckingham's blog
Posts: 600 | From: Cloud Cuckoo Land | Registered: Feb 2007
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
FYI:
Visualizations, religious or otherwise, can be very helpful for some people, at some times.
They can also be an escape hatch for stuff that's rattling around inside you. Sometimes, that can be disturbing.
I had an uncomfortable incident on a retreat. Wound up skipping most of the rest of the activities. Had to put a fair amount of distance between me and that kind of thing for a long time.
Not saying don't do it--just be sensitive to yourself; remember you don't HAVE to do or complete a visualization; and get support, as you need.
[ 20. November 2014, 01:38: Message edited by: Golden Key ]
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
Leo--
Yes re directors. Also therapists, sensitive confidantes, etc., depending on the issues and the resources available.
Have you read any of Jack Kornfield's books, by any chance? I'm thinking especially of "A Path With Heart". Lots about giving/receiving spiritual direction, dealing with odd experiences, etc. He's a Buddhist teacher, in the Insight Meditation branch. He's been a seeker, monk, householder, spiritual director, and teacher. His advice is very level-headed. Might be useful in your line of work, FWIW.
Oh, and this sort of experience is why some fundamentalists and Evangelicals avoid visualization like the plague: from what I've read, they have disturbing experiences--and think it's an attack from the devil, because they don't have any other explanation in their framework.
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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