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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: R.I.P. Common sense, hope and fair reporting
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Schroedinger's cat
Ship's cool cat
# 64
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Posted
So Rochester has elected a UKIP MP. Because a portion of the electorate is clearly stupid there.
And this is a "major victory for UKIP", getting a sitting MP re-elected despite having shifted his views slightly to the right. If they can actually elect people standing against sitting MPs, that would be more significant. They are still a bunch of complete wankers though, and I strongly suspect that they will lose out at the general next year.
And apparently there is a non-existent part in fourth place, because their results seem not to be reported. In this report, Labour were ahead of them, in other reports, the Libdems were behind them. I wonder who they are?
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Blog
Music for your enjoyment
Lord may all my hard times be healing times
take out this broken heart and renew my mind.
Posts: 18859 | From: At the bottom of a deep dark well. | Registered: May 2001
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
I'm ecstatic. There is a very good chance that Mark Reckless will live up to his name.
Previously he has been a rather anonymous Tory MP, but now the spotlight is shining on him. In the run-up to the vote he had to withdraw a couple of statements about Polish plumbers and whether EU immigrants were to be allowed to stay or not. He has nearly six months left to make himself and UKIP look stupid and while Douglas Carswell is reasonably clued up, I don't think this clown is. I think Farage will clap him in irons and, as far as possible, keep him out of the limelight.
For stupidity however he has a rival in a neat bit of stereotyping by the former Shadow Attorney-General.. For goodness sake, in politics, if you're not sure what to say, say nothing.
[ 21. November 2014, 12:05: Message edited by: Sioni Sais ]
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
Reckless would probably have got in anyway. The Conservative voters already knew him, whereas the new candidate is a relative unknown. I suspect this election was more about personalities than parties.
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Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430
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Posted
Fourth in line was The Green Party, with an increase of about 3% from last time. Poor old Councillor Juby (Lib-Dem) received only about 350 votes, having apparently been completely abandoned by the pathetic so-called 'leadership' of his party. IIRC (not having the exact figures to hand), Greens polled about five times as many as him......
I remarked recently that I was fed up with seeing Reckless' face on the backs of our local buses. An acquaintance wondered if I'd rather see Reckless undera bus.......
......but I think it should be illegal for a defecting MP to stand for the same seat on behalf of the party to which he has prostituted himself.
The Tory candidate, a local lass (lives near me) rather new to the business, did quite well, all things considered, so I wouldn't be at all surprised if she won the seat back in 2015.
Meanwhile, a plague on all their houses, and especially on the Kipperbox.
Ian J.
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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)
Posts: 10151 | From: Behind The Wheel Again! | Registered: Jan 2004
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Matt Black
Shipmate
# 2210
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
So Rochester has elected a UKIP MP. Because a portion of the electorate is clearly stupid there.
Ah, so you're taking a leaf out of Emily Thornberry's book: don't like the voters, so slag them off? Whilst I am no fan of UKIP or their policies, dishing out ad homines on their voters, albeit in Hell, rather than seeking to address some of the concerns which might have led them to vote in that way, is scarcely going to win hearts and minds.
Anyway, this seat, together with that of Clacton, will turn from purple to blue again in six months; to win a by-election on a significant protest vote is one thing, to win a seat in a general election is quite another.
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"Protestant and Reformed, according to the Tradition of the ancient Catholic Church" - + John Cosin (1594-1672)
Posts: 14304 | From: Hampshire, UK | Registered: Jan 2002
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Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430
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Posted
![[Killing me]](graemlins/killingme.gif)
At least we can now get our High Street back - it's been awash with politicos (sp?)for weeks, and walking along it has been a positive health hazard.........
*sigh* ....but I suppose they'll all be back next May...... ![[Help]](graemlins/help.gif)
Ian J.
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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)
Posts: 10151 | From: Behind The Wheel Again! | Registered: Jan 2004
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Doc Tor
Deepest Red
# 9748
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Matt Black:
quote:
Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
So Rochester has elected a UKIP MP. Because a portion of the electorate is clearly stupid there.
Ah, so you're taking a leaf out of Emily Thornberry's book: don't like the voters, so slag them off?
SC is absolutely right: precisely 49% of the electorate are clearly stupid, because despite the polls being open all day, they found they couldn't spare 5 minutes to put an X on a piece of paper and stick it in a box.
Fuck 'em. They got what they deserved.
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Forward the New Republic
Posts: 9131 | From: Ultima Thule | Registered: Jul 2005
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Matt Black
Shipmate
# 2210
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Posted
Ah well, in that case I agree. I though he meant those exercising their democratic right who might have - shock horror! - voted in a way he didn't like...
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"Protestant and Reformed, according to the Tradition of the ancient Catholic Church" - + John Cosin (1594-1672)
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Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:
Because a portion of the electorate is SC is absolutely right: precisely 49% of the electorate are clearly stupid, because despite the polls being open all day, they found they couldn't spare 5 minutes to put an X on a piece of paper and stick it in a box.
Not stupid. Either lazy ("can't be bothered") or, more likely disengaged ("doesn't matter what I vote, they're all the same anyway"). We're experiencing a real disconnection by many people from the political process.
[ 21. November 2014, 15:36: Message edited by: Baptist Trainfan ]
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Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430
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Posted
Indeed - though, by our usual local standards (pretty abysmal, IMHO) it was a fairly high turnout.
Ian J.
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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)
Posts: 10151 | From: Behind The Wheel Again! | Registered: Jan 2004
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Dafyd
Shipmate
# 5549
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:
Not stupid. Either lazy ("can't be bothered") or, more likely disengaged ("doesn't matter what I vote, they're all the same anyway").
Story of the past twenty years in politics:
Labour does its best to demonstrate that they're all the same anyway; Tories successfully demonstrate that they're not the same at all.
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we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams
Posts: 10567 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Feb 2004
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Schroedinger's cat
Ship's cool cat
# 64
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Posted
A portion of the electorate are stupid - the ones who voted for the UKIP candidate, because they think UKIP are a good party. Sorry, but I think stupid is appropriate, because they clearly have no real idea what they actually stand for.
A portion of the electorate is stupid because they didn't bother voting.
I don't have a problem with people voting for a candidate I don't like. I don't have a problem with people who cannot get out to vote. I do have a problem with those who make politics so bland and meaningless that this can happen.
I don't mean - ever - that everyone who votes for people I don't like are stupid. I mean a portion of the electorate are stupid because we have a stupid system, and this allows extremist parties to have successes.
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Blog
Music for your enjoyment
Lord may all my hard times be healing times
take out this broken heart and renew my mind.
Posts: 18859 | From: At the bottom of a deep dark well. | Registered: May 2001
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Lord Jestocost
Shipmate
# 12909
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
A portion of the electorate are stupid - the ones who voted for the UKIP candidate, because they think UKIP are a good party. Sorry, but I think stupid is appropriate, because they clearly have no real idea what they actually stand for.
I dunno. This isn't something I would do myself, but I can understand a mindset that says "I am really pissed off with the Tories; in this by-election I will vote for a kipper, to send a signal of my pissed-off-ness, because he will be one of 2 MPs and have exactly zero power; then come May they may have come to their senses and I will vote for them again."
It's a dangerous plan, but it's a plan.
Posts: 761 | From: The Instrumentality of Man | Registered: Aug 2007
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Matt Black
Shipmate
# 2210
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Posted
If I wanted to protest against the present sorry lot, I'd vote Green myself, but that's just me.
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"Protestant and Reformed, according to the Tradition of the ancient Catholic Church" - + John Cosin (1594-1672)
Posts: 14304 | From: Hampshire, UK | Registered: Jan 2002
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
A portion of the electorate are stupid
They deserve representation too. ![[Biased]](wink.gif)
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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Matt Black
Shipmate
# 2210
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Posted
Well, quite, otherwise we sound like neo-cons complaining when electorates in the Arab world vote for people they don't like...
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"Protestant and Reformed, according to the Tradition of the ancient Catholic Church" - + John Cosin (1594-1672)
Posts: 14304 | From: Hampshire, UK | Registered: Jan 2002
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quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740
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Posted
There are lots of stupid people - Ms Thornberry for example, apparently disdaining the kind of voter that Labour should be gagging for.
I can find little that is sensible or hopeful in all of this. English politics has become a complete dog's breakfast now. I suppose it's not stupidity at the back of it, but fear, confusion,and so on.
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I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.
Posts: 9878 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2011
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by quetzalcoatl:
There are lots of stupid people - Ms Thornberry for example, apparently disdaining the kind of voter that Labour should be gagging for.
I can find little that is sensible or hopeful in all of this. English politics has become a complete dog's breakfast now. I suppose it's not stupidity at the back of it, but fear, confusion,and so on.
Stupidity is there, but it's mostly old fashioned greed and selfishness. Anyway, you name any aspect of sin, and you can point to some evil or another. It has always been thus.
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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Caissa
Shipmate
# 16710
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Posted
Voters always get the representation they deserve.
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quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
quote:
Originally posted by quetzalcoatl:
There are lots of stupid people - Ms Thornberry for example, apparently disdaining the kind of voter that Labour should be gagging for.
I can find little that is sensible or hopeful in all of this. English politics has become a complete dog's breakfast now. I suppose it's not stupidity at the back of it, but fear, confusion,and so on.
Stupidity is there, but it's mostly old fashioned greed and selfishness. Anyway, you name any aspect of sin, and you can point to some evil or another. It has always been thus.
That's true, but I think that the degree of alienation today seems radical. Not just between politicians and voters, but politicians themselves are all over the place. Everyone has moved to the right, I suppose, except the Greens and the SNP. The centre cannot hold, blah blah blah.
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I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.
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rufiki
Ship's 'shroom
# 11165
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Posted
Can anyone explain what was so bad about Thornberry's tweet? At face value it's a picture of someone's house, noting which town it's in. Seriously, what am I missing?
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Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
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Posted
For a start, she got the town wrong. It's Strood.
Second, despite that she said very little about the place, other people were able to read a lot into it that she may not have intended. She should have paid attention to a little internal voice saying "Other people may attribute meaning to the choice of white van and flags that won't do you any good." If she had no voice, that would be a problem in a politician.
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Schroedinger's cat
Ship's cool cat
# 64
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Caissa:
Voters always get the representation they deserve.
Not necessarily. If the voting system is not fair, we might not. If there is no real choice, we don't get the system we deserve.
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Blog
Music for your enjoyment
Lord may all my hard times be healing times
take out this broken heart and renew my mind.
Posts: 18859 | From: At the bottom of a deep dark well. | Registered: May 2001
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Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528
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Posted
I keep forgetting. What do white vans represent again? Because on this side of the pond, a white van is a van is a van, and all we'd care about the color is whether you have to wash it more often.
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Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!
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Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
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Posted
The white van is involved in the defining of "white van man", a person not working for the sort of company which can afford to have it sign written, possibly working for himself doing a bit of this and a bit of that in the black economy. There is an assumption that he only buys the sort of newspaper that is full of pictures of underdressed women, and is given to shouting out crudely sexist remarks at any woman in earshot. He is also expected to break the speed limit, shoot red lights, park on pavements (sidewalks), and generally ignore the highway code. In short, he is a sexist, rather stupid person who is probably not, as far as the law is concerned, squeaky clean.
Stereotyped, in fact. Oh, and I forgot to mention he's probably white.
[ 21. November 2014, 19:16: Message edited by: Penny S ]
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Honest Ron Bacardi
Shipmate
# 38
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Lamb Chopped:
I keep forgetting. What do white vans represent again? Because on this side of the pond, a white van is a van is a van, and all we'd care about the color is whether you have to wash it more often.
It's worth understanding this a bit, because it's relevant to a pecularly British form of dereliction.
Most people are aware of what the phrase "moral panic" means. But the original work which defined that concept looked at two related ideas. The other one was called "The Folk Devil". White van man is a folk devil. quote:
Folk devil is a person or group of people who are portrayed in folklore or the media as outsiders and deviant, and who are blamed for crimes or other sorts of social problems; see also: scapegoat.
The pursuit of folk devils frequently intensifies into a mass movement that is called a moral panic. When a moral panic is in full swing, the folk devils are the subject of loosely organized but pervasive campaigns of hostility through gossip and the spreading of urban legends. The mass media sometimes get in on the act or attempt to create new folk devils in an effort to promote controversy. Sometimes the campaign against the folk devil influences a nation's politics and legislation.
I think that's about as much as I can quote in one go. More here (Wikipedia).
In practice, the real white van man bears little resemblance to his stereotype. He seems fairly normal (genuine research), and better than some. Certainly a lot better than most who populate the political class, who still seem not to have noticed the widespread disaffection with them.
Fans of semiotics - not to mention psychology - will understand.
[ 21. November 2014, 21:56: Message edited by: Honest Ron Bacardi ]
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Anglo-Cthulhic
Posts: 4857 | From: the corridors of Pah! | Registered: May 2001
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cattyish
Wuss in Boots
# 7829
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Posted
I'll be interested to see when we next have a turnout for any vote like the recent Scottish referendum turnout which impressed me way more than any of the nonsense spouted about which way we should all be hoodwinked, emotionally blackmailed or bribed into voting.
Cattish, remembering that as I left the polling station, "Won't Get Fooled Again" came on my ipod.
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...to know even one life has breathed easier because you have lived, this is to have succeeded.
Ralph Waldo Emerson
Posts: 1794 | From: Scotland | Registered: Jul 2004
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Anglican't
Shipmate
# 15292
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Posted
In addition to the white van, there's perhaps also the view amongst people like Lady Nugee (as Emily Thornberry prefers not to be called) that anyone who displays a St George's flag (never mind three) is some kind of backward racist. George Orwell's words are probably still apt today:
quote:
In left-wing circles it is always
felt that there is something slightly disgraceful in being an Englishman
and that it is a duty to snigger at every English institution, from horse
racing to suet puddings. It is a strange fact, but it is unquestionably
true that almost any English intellectual would feel more ashamed of
standing to attention during 'God save the King' than of stealing from a
poor box.
Posts: 3613 | From: London, England | Registered: Nov 2009
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Oscar the Grouch
Adopted Cascadian
# 1916
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Posted
On a day when the best thing a Labour MP could do would be to keep quiet, keep their head down and watch the Tories squirm, how can this stupid woman give the neo-Nazi press something to divert peoples' attention from the Tory train wreck?
Brainless doesn't begin to describe her. I have to wonder if she's really a Tory mole.
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Faradiu, dundeibáwa weyu lárigi weyu
Posts: 3871 | From: Gamma Quadrant, just to the left of Galifrey | Registered: Dec 2001
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
Oscar, if you can tell the difference between the government and opposition front benches, do let me know. It seems to be no more than tie colour.
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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Anglican't
Shipmate
# 15292
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Oscar the Grouch:
[H]ow can this stupid woman give the neo-Nazi press something to divert peoples' attention from the Tory train wreck?
Has the Völkischer Beobachter enjoyed unexpected popularity in Britain or something?
Lady Nugee's train wreck has succeed in diverting attention from a deeper Labour problem: Labour held this seat* until 2010. They need to win in places like this in order to form a government and yet they've managed only 17% of the vote.
*Possibly on slightly different boundaries, but I think my point still stands.
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Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Anglican't:
Lady Nugee (as Emily Thornberry prefers not to be called)
I never realised that she was a "Lady" ... it always strikes me as a really outdated and even sexist concept that the wife of a Lord automatically becomes a Lady, especially when the reverse is not the case. So good on her for not using it!
(Not that this changes the main issue in this debate, of Labour losing touch with its core constituency).
Posts: 9750 | From: The other side of the Severn | Registered: Sep 2009
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Anglican't
Shipmate
# 15292
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Posted
Her husband is Sir Christopher Nugee, a High Court judge.
Posts: 3613 | From: London, England | Registered: Nov 2009
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rolyn
Shipmate
# 16840
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Posted
ISTM that the two main political parties that have dominated UK political since WW1 have somehow given a foothold to a fringe party and now they have not a clue as to how to stop it from gaining ground.
It's beginning to resemble a feeling among Europeans that existed 100 yrs ago and that alone makes it more than a little unsettling.
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Change is the only certainty of existence
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by rolyn:
ISTM that the two main political parties that have dominated UK political since WW1 have somehow given a foothold to a fringe party and now they have not a clue as to how to stop it from gaining ground.
It's beginning to resemble a feeling among Europeans that existed 100 yrs ago and that alone makes it more than a little unsettling.
Something like this happened back in the 1980's when the Labour Party was subject to a similar split when a substantial element of its right-wing jumped ship to form the Social Democratic Party. Until the next general election it carried all before in be-elections and opinion polls.
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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JoannaP
Shipmate
# 4493
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by quetzalcoatl:
quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
quote:
Originally posted by quetzalcoatl:
There are lots of stupid people - Ms Thornberry for example, apparently disdaining the kind of voter that Labour should be gagging for.
I can find little that is sensible or hopeful in all of this. English politics has become a complete dog's breakfast now. I suppose it's not stupidity at the back of it, but fear, confusion,and so on.
Stupidity is there, but it's mostly old fashioned greed and selfishness. Anyway, you name any aspect of sin, and you can point to some evil or another. It has always been thus.
That's true, but I think that the degree of alienation today seems radical. Not just between politicians and voters, but politicians themselves are all over the place. Everyone has moved to the right, I suppose, except the Greens and the SNP. The centre cannot hold, blah blah blah.
Whenever I feel despair at the state of politics in the UK, I read up on what is happening t'other side of the Pond and things don't seem so bad.
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"Freedom for the pike is death for the minnow." R. H. Tawney (quoted by Isaiah Berlin)
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." Benjamin Franklin
Posts: 1877 | From: England | Registered: May 2003
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rolyn
Shipmate
# 16840
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
Something like this happened back in the 1980's when the Labour Party was subject to a similar split when a substantial element of its right-wing jumped ship to form the Social Democratic Party. Until the next general election it carried all before in by-elections and opinion polls.
Remember it well SS. Everyone thought Labour would never govern again. Also very similar in that there was much media enthusiasm at the time. Now it's a case of Dr. david Who? crying in the wilderness.
If this UKIP thing is media driven it will surely fizzle. If however it really is a symptom of simmering discontent over the future reality of a United States of Europe it will not.
Europe has been a powder-keg for Centuries and the EU has successfully provided the bung for the past 60 yrs. Anyone who believes that mother doesn't have the potential to blow in the future, whether they're a fat-cat or a thin-cat, has come to take European peace and harmony for granted.
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Change is the only certainty of existence
Posts: 3206 | From: U.K. | Registered: Dec 2011
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
Splitter!
It looks like some cracks are emerging between Nigel Farage (leader of UKIP, has never been elected to Parliament) and Mark Reckless (now elected to Parliament twice, for different parties.
This doesn't look good for Farage, UKIP or Reckless for that matter. Moreover some of those who voted for UKIP will now be thinking 'Look, are you going to keep them out or aren't you? All political parties change policies, but if UKIP give the impression of doing it in reaction to every event, any credibility they will have had will evaporate.
There is clearly a God, and He has been listening to my prayers.
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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QLib
Bad Example
# 43
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Dafyd:
Story of the past twenty years in politics:
Labour does its best to demonstrate that they're all the same anyway; Tories successfully demonstrate that they're not the same at all.
Brilliant ![[Overused]](graemlins/notworthy.gif)
As for Thornberry: her label for the picture was completely noncommittal, so anyone who reads contempt into it should look to themselves. In the context of that day, it might simply have meant: 'UKIP will probably carry the day here". To say she was disrespecting the working class is ridiculous - and pretty fucking rich, coming from the Sun - as if all working class people drape their houses in flags. The Sun was trying to distract from a Tory defeat and Miliband played right into their hands. He should have told them to fuck off.
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Tradition is the handing down of the flame, not the worship of the ashes Gustav Mahler.
Posts: 8913 | From: Page 28 | Registered: May 2001
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Curiosity killed ...
Ship's Mug
# 11770
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Posted
The BBC building in Portman Place had "UKIP headquarters" and "Ministry of Truth" type graffiti sprayed on it when I wandered past last night. The old bit of Portland stone. I meant to take pictures but it was raining. Someone somewhere definitely thinks it's a media campaign.
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Mugs - Keep the Ship afloat
Posts: 13794 | From: outiside the outer ring road | Registered: Aug 2006
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Anglican't
Shipmate
# 15292
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by QLib:
As for Thornberry: her label for the picture was completely noncommittal, so anyone who reads contempt into it should look to themselves. In the context of that day, it might simply have meant: 'UKIP will probably carry the day here".
Was it non-committal? If one is a politician on the campaign trail and one takes the time to single out one particular house on a public forum, isn't one making some comment about it? And if the message was 'UKIP will win here', doesn't that say something about Thornberry and the Labour Party, that driving a white van / being a West Ham fan / supporting England are inimical to voting Labour?
quote:
To say she was disrespecting the working class is ridiculous - and pretty fucking rich, coming from the Sun - as if all working class people drape their houses in flags. The Sun was trying to distract from a Tory defeat and Miliband played right into their hands. He should have told them to fuck off.
Nice attempt to shift the focus on to the Sun, but criticism didn't come from some demonic 'right-wing press':
quote:
Simon Danczuk, Labour MP:
Everyone will know exactly what she meant by that comment.
I think she was being derogatory and dismissive of the people. We all know what she was trying to imply.
I’ve talked about this previously. It’s like the Labour party has been hijacked by the north London liberal elite and it’s comments like that which reinforce that view.
I want to see more people flying the British flag.
quote:
John Mann, Labour MP:
It insults people like me, it insults the people I know, my friends and family, Labour voters across the country, because white vans, England flags, they’re Labour values and actually pretty routine Labour values for most of us.
Should Ed Miliband tell them to fuck off, too?
Posts: 3613 | From: London, England | Registered: Nov 2009
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QLib
Bad Example
# 43
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Posted
I know I'm not alone in wondering what Simon Danczuk is doing in the Labour party. To his credit, he does seem to be taking action on the historical child abuse investigation, so I guess he's a man of integrity, but it seems he really believes that anyone to the left of Blair is either a Stalinist or a Trotskyist. I think he's wrong. And I also think suggesting that any leading figure in the Labour party holds ordinary working people in contempt is not only wrong but also very silly.
Both Milliband and Danczuk seem to be making the same mistake over the Murdoch press; it's a mistake Blair also made and it wrecked his integrity in the process. There's no point in trying to cosy up to Murdoch; the only way to deal with him and his minions is to know what you stand for and tough it out.
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Tradition is the handing down of the flame, not the worship of the ashes Gustav Mahler.
Posts: 8913 | From: Page 28 | Registered: May 2001
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Anglican't
Shipmate
# 15292
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Posted
..and John Mann? He's not exactly a Blairite, is he?
quote:
Originally posted by QLib:
Both Milliband and Danczuk seem to be making the same mistake over the Murdoch press; it's a mistake Blair also made and it wrecked his integrity in the process. There's no point in trying to cosy up to Murdoch; the only way to deal with him and his minions is to know what you stand for and tough it out.
There you go again. What has Rupert Murdoch got to do with this? A shadow cabinet minister tweeted a photograph. People on Twitter got riled at it and created a fuss. That fuss made its way into the press and mainstream media. I struggle to see evidence of some kind of shady goings-on here.
Posts: 3613 | From: London, England | Registered: Nov 2009
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Arethosemyfeet
Shipmate
# 17047
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Anglican't:
There you go again. What has Rupert Murdoch got to do with this? A shadow cabinet minister tweeted a photograph. People on Twitter got riled at it and created a fuss. That fuss made its way into the press and mainstream media. I struggle to see evidence of some kind of shady goings-on here.
I think the italicised part rather answers that question. Not every bullshit twitter storm makes its way to the front page of Murdoch's red-topped rag, but this one did. I suspect the reason for that has an awful lot to do with revenge for Labour promising to implement the findings of Leveson.
Posts: 2933 | From: Hebrides | Registered: Apr 2012
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quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740
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Posted
Journalists were saying that Murdoch wants revenge on both Tories and Labour for Leveson, plus the police, plus anybody else involved.
I have no idea if this is true or not; and it may be true that currently, Murdoch is more hostile to Labour.
Plus the UKIP factor - does the Sun support them? Both anti-EU, I think.
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I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.
Posts: 9878 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2011
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Anglican't
Shipmate
# 15292
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Posted
It could also be that Thornberry acted like an idiot and that is considered newsworthy.
Posts: 3613 | From: London, England | Registered: Nov 2009
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quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Anglican't:
It could also be that Thornberry acted like an idiot and that is considered newsworthy.
There is certainly a febrile atmosphere now; I suppose it will get worse from now on, and you can expect an all-out political assassination of Miliband.
I think Murdoch pretends that he influences politics, but as far as I can see, he tends to follow after the results, e.g. in Scotland.
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I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.
Posts: 9878 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2011
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