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Source: (consider it) Thread: Women, men and sex
Hiro's Leap

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Are there real differences between women and men in terms of sexuality? Are there different drives for promiscuity versus commitment? Are women more discerning about sexual partners? Are men more visual? Does status and wealth have a different impact on the desirability of men and women? Are there other differences? Or are any differences a pop psychology myth, with people projecting the image that society expects?

And if there are differences, then why? Are they innate to our biology or culturally determined?

I tend to I believe there are some differences in behaviour. For one, in my experience men *seem* to be more interested in casual sexual encounters. Still, it's very easy to let assumptions influence what you see. Sexuality is complicated, and there's an embarassing history of people having an idealised view of how men and women *ought* to differ according to the dominant ideology.

So, are there differences? And if so, what are they and why?

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quetzalcoatl
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One thing that strikes me is variation. I grew up in a tough area, and some of the girls were sexually very forward, but not all of them. I went to uni, and ditto. I became a lecturer, and some female students used to proposition me, but many didn't.

So I'm not sure here if there is an intersection of class, sex identity, gender, generation, individual psychology - very complicated!

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Enoch
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quote:
Originally posted by quetzalcoatl:
One thing that strikes me is variation. I grew up in a tough area, and some of the girls were sexually very forward, but not all of them. I went to uni, and ditto. I became a lecturer, and some female students used to proposition me, but many didn't.

So I'm not sure here if there is an intersection of class, sex identity, gender, generation, individual psychology - very complicated!

Admittedly that evidence is anecdotal, but if it is valid, it would strongly suggest that it's a matter of individual psychology rather than any of the other intersectors.

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lilBuddha
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ISTM, culture is one of the more dominant factors. And not just culture in the UK v. Carib. v. Asian sense, but with the class/economic level as well. Education is a factor within those other factors.
Predicting what any one individual might do can be difficult. Predicting the behaviour of groups, much less so. Pointing to a conclusion that the individual sublimates their individuality to the group far more often than we'd care to admit.

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George Spigot

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Generally speaking it's about individuals rather than male/female differences. Any anecdotal evidence that seems to point to men and women having different drives is more likely down to expectations and social pressures.
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SvitlanaV2
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I think sociologists have suggested that the differences in sexual behaviour between men and women are flattening out as women's independence and status in society increase, and of course due to the availability of contraception.

However, I don't think the approach overall will ever be entirely the same while women are the ones who risk unwanted pregnancy, bear the main burden of childrearing, yet also experience the much earlier biological clock.

In the future there may be societies where women are encouraged to conceive artificially, incubate their unborn babies in artificial wombs and perhaps have them raised communally. If that seems unlikely, it also seems unlikely that men will change their sexual and domestic behaviour to accommodate women's bodies and aspirations entirely.

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saysay

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quote:
Originally posted by Hiro's Leap:
Are there real differences between women and men in terms of sexuality?

Hi, I'm saysay, and I'm a serial monogamist who is friends with a bunch of serial monogamists. I also have a lot of friends who have done a fair amount of hooking up.

I'm going to say yes. With the usual caveat that there's a lot of variation in people. And I'm going to hope that everyone on this thread understands that pointing to a particular example of one man who is shorter than one woman does not disprove the notion that men are on average taller than women.

quote:
Are there different drives for promiscuity versus commitment? Are women more discerning about sexual partners?
Yes. All birth control methods have failure rates. Not all women are willing to get an abortion in case of an accidental pregnancy. Women are the ones who have to deal with the biological consequences of an unwanted pregnancy. If I choose an unsuitable partner and get pregnant, he can theoretically disappear, leaving me with quite a conundrum.

quote:
Are men more visual? Does status and wealth have a different impact on the desirability of men and women? Are there other differences? Or are any differences a pop psychology myth, with people projecting the image that society expects?
Yes, men are more visual. I can appreciate a good-looking guy, but he generally has to have movie-star good looks in order to make me do a double take or stare. This does not seem to be the case with most of the men I know; they have to train themselves out of doing it.

As to status and wealth: I learned in a sociology class a few decades ago that the highest status person in a room is expected to initiate any relationship. For women, the highest status woman is generally the prettiest. For men, the highest status man is generally the wealthiest or the one who holds a higher position in the political or business hierarchy. The whole class (of about 200 people) seemed to agree with this assessment, as we were all conditioned to understand that people higher up on the food chain tended to regard people lower down on the food chain as pests who weren't worth their time and energy. In terms of sexual desirability, men's natural attraction tends to be towards the women who are already viewed as high status by women. IME, women are often sexually attracted to people who they don't necessarily want a relationship with because of their lack of wealth or power. The need for a partner who can provide for a child should she become pregnant causes her to override those desires.

Basically, though, sexually speaking we're all looking for the best looking and wealthiest person who will have us. Men more often choose beauty over wealth while women chose wealth over beauty. (Of course, as the relationship develops, the presence or absence of certain character traits becomes more important - but those can't always be known when we're choosing who to hook up with or start a relationship with).

I'm sure there are lots and lots of people who try to project the image society expects in spite of their true feelings. The problem is that "society" is amazingly diverse. I've known people who have tried to project the image of an innocent, virginal, lacking in any sexual desire purity ball kind of girls because that's what they're subculture expects, as well as people who watched too much Sex in the City and convinced themselves that they were perfectly fine having lots of random sex with strangers because guys like doing that and we're all the same, so why not, and only realized later how unhappy it was making them. I think a lot of people try really hard to seem normal, however their culture or subculture defines normal.

quote:
And if there are differences, then why? Are they innate to our biology or culturally determined?
As with most things in the nature/nurture debate, I'd say it's likely a combination.

quote:
I tend to I believe there are some differences in behaviour. For one, in my experience men *seem* to be more interested in casual sexual encounters.


In addition to the aforementioned pregnancy issue, there's also the reality that for most men having an orgasm is relatively straightforward. It's a little more complicated for women. It's not that I've never had an orgasm the first time I've had sex with a particular man, but it generally involves a bunch of fooling around in different make-out sessions to show him what I like.

Casual encounters would seem to equal orgasm for him, no orgasm for me, and (depending on the type of sexual contact) the possibility of pregnancy. Can't see the percentage in my participating.

This is probably TMI.

quote:
Still, it's very easy to let assumptions influence what you see. Sexuality is complicated, and there's an embarassing history of people having an idealised view of how men and women *ought* to differ according to the dominant ideology.

So, are there differences? And if so, what are they and why?

The first one that comes to mind (that you didn't mention) is sex drive. It's not that I don't have a sex drive, and it's not that I won't initiate sex at times (or take care of things myself). But most of the men I've been with have had sex drives that are higher than mine, and they feel the desire to have sex more often than I do.

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Hiro's Leap

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quote:
Originally posted by George Spigot:
Generally speaking it's about individuals rather than male/female differences. Any anecdotal evidence that seems to point to men and women having different drives is more likely down to expectations and social pressures.

Traditional societies have made all sorts of assumptions about male and female sexuality. Much of this was flat-out wrong, or only true because it created cultural norms that forced people to conform - especially for female sexuality.

However, I think that we've now reacted against this by denying ANY differences, and I'm not sure that's right either. My female friends have significantly different attitudes to sex than my male ones. This may *all* be cultural, but I'm reluctant to assume so. Sexual dimorphism is virtually ubiquitous amongst animals.
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
And not just culture in the UK v. Carib. v. Asian sense, but with the class/economic level as well.

Yes, and age groups within each culture are important too.

quote:
Originally posted by quetzalcoatl:
One thing that strikes me is variation. I grew up in a tough area, and some of the girls were sexually very forward, but not all of them. I went to uni, and ditto. I became a lecturer, and some female students used to proposition me, but many didn't.

So I'm not sure here if there is an intersection of class, sex identity, gender, generation, individual psychology - very complicated!

In my culture there's definitely an expectation that men should do the running. Women hint that they're interested, or get friends to make enquiries, but it's still unusual for a woman to ask a guy out. You can see this with online dating - women get far more responses to their profiles than men. I suspect this is mostly cultural, but it's certainly a major gender difference around here.

And yes, it's very complicated! It's a huge subject - in hindsight maybe it would have been better to limit the scope a bit more (e.g. attitudes to casual sex, or sexual attraction) but I was interested to see what other issues people came up with.

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Hiro's Leap

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quote:
Originally posted by saysay:
quote:
Originally posted by Hiro's Leap:
[qb]Are there different drives for promiscuity versus commitment? Are women more discerning about sexual partners?

Yes. All birth control methods have failure rates. Not all women are willing to get an abortion in case of an accidental pregnancy. Women are the ones who have to deal with the biological consequences of an unwanted pregnancy. If I choose an unsuitable partner and get pregnant, he can theoretically disappear, leaving me with quite a conundrum.
Also, until very recently there would have been a high chance of the mother dying in childbirth. Why risk all that if the man isn't a suitable partner? In evolutionary terms the man loses nothing by casual sex, and gains the chance passing his genes on.

ISTM that this basic asymmetry must have influenced human sexuality (and culture) a lot. And while birth control and better medical care have made a big difference to modern society, our instincts have been shaped by 100,000+ years without it.
quote:
most of the men I've been with have had sex drives that are higher than mine, and they feel the desire to have sex more often than I do.
Apparently this is statistically true, but I've heard of a lot women who are dissatisfied with their man's lack of interest. Age perhaps has an influence, as well as high individual variation?
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mousethief

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quote:
Originally posted by saysay:
Basically, though, sexually speaking we're all looking for the best looking and wealthiest person who will have us.

Bullshit. We're not all as shallow as all that.

[ 11. March 2015, 01:49: Message edited by: mousethief ]

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lilBuddha
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quote:
Originally posted by Hiro's Leap:
Apparently this is statistically true, but I've heard of a lot women who are dissatisfied with their man's lack of interest. Age perhaps has an influence, as well as high individual variation?

I wonder how much libido varies by who has power in the realtionship.

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que sais-je
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quote:
Originally posted by Hiro's Leap:
Are there real differences between women and men in terms of sexuality? Are there different drives for promiscuity versus commitment? Are women more discerning about sexual partners?

I struggle with this. A small thought experiment: a group of say 100 male and 100 female heterosexual virgins find themselves on a desert island. A little maths will suggest that the average number of different sexual partners men have will be identical with the average number women have. After all, each new relationship is new for the man and the woman so both averages go up by the same amount.

Kinsey puzzled about this: he suggested that either there are some incredibly sexually active female sex workers who don't get interviewed in surveys, or men tend to exaggerate the number of their sexual encounters and women do the opposite.

So one difference between might be a tendency to exaggerate sexual prowess by men .... surely not.

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Timothy the Obscure

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As for accurate reporting of number of sexual partners, there was a study a couple of years ago in which men and women were asked (via computerized questionnaire) about various sexual subjects, including number of partners. Half of the participants were hooked up to a device they were told was a lie detector (it wasn't). The men's average number was about the same under both conditions, but the women who were connected to the pseudo-polygraph reported significantly more partners than the ones who didn't think anyone would know if they were lying (IIRC, the average went from a bit over 2 to over 4).

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saysay

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quote:
Originally posted by Hiro's Leap:
Apparently this is statistically true, but I've heard of a lot women who are dissatisfied with their man's lack of interest. Age perhaps has an influence, as well as high individual variation?

I'm sure age has an influence, as well as the presence or absence of small children and whether or not people have the kinds of jobs where they have the energy to do anything but collapse in exhaustion at the end of the day. I've also heard a few cases that sounded like porn addiction.

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I'll tell you all about it when I see you again"
"'Oh sweet baby purple Jesus' - that's a direct quote from a 9 year old - shoutout to purple Jesus."

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lilBuddha
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quote:
Originally posted by Timothy the Obscure:
As for accurate reporting of number of sexual partners, there was a study a couple of years ago in which men and women were asked (via computerized questionnaire) about various sexual subjects, including number of partners. Half of the participants were hooked up to a device they were told was a lie detector (it wasn't). The men's average number was about the same under both conditions, but the women who were connected to the pseudo-polygraph reported significantly more partners than the ones who didn't think anyone would know if they were lying (IIRC, the average went from a bit over 2 to over 4).

Because women who like sex are sluts and men ho do are just normal.

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IngoB

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quote:
Originally posted by que sais-je:
quote:
Originally posted by Hiro's Leap:
Are there real differences between women and men in terms of sexuality? Are there different drives for promiscuity versus commitment? Are women more discerning about sexual partners?

I struggle with this. A small thought experiment: a group of say 100 male and 100 female heterosexual virgins find themselves on a desert island. A little maths will suggest that the average number of different sexual partners men have will be identical with the average number women have. After all, each new relationship is new for the man and the woman so both averages go up by the same amount.
This seems to miss the rather obvious difference between what one wants and what one manages to get. Say one partner wants to have sex 21 times a week, but the other only once - and they end up having sex three times a week as their compromise. Then it is both true that they have the same amount of sex, and that nevertheless one partner is a lot more interested in sex. Likewise, one person may proposition to a few dozen potential partners, but only manage to sleep with one person. Whereas that sexual partner may never had interest in anyone but the person they had sex with. In which case by simply counting the number of actual sex acts, both are equally promiscuous. Still, clearly one has a much greater drive to promiscuity than the other.

Setting homosexuality aside, obviously both sexes will always be on even terms as far as actual sex acts go. But my experience at least suggests that the male side is usually more interested in making sex happen than the female side, and the more men get to determine compromises about sex, the more sex will in fact happen.

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saysay

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quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
Because women who like sex are sluts and men ho do are just normal.

I think you'll find most people think women who like sex are great - it's women with multiple partners, particularly in a short time frame, who are most commonly called sluts.

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Kaplan Corday
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quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
quote:
Originally posted by saysay:
Basically, though, sexually speaking we're all looking for the best looking and wealthiest person who will have us.

Bullshit. We're not all as shallow as all that.
True, but at the same time I notice that in my Christian (OK, evangelical) world where, theoretically at least, character and other factors are supposed to be just as important as appearance in the choice of a partner, good-looking Christians tend to marry good-looking Christians, and ordinary-looking marry ordinary-looking.
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Arethosemyfeet
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quote:
Originally posted by saysay:
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
Because women who like sex are sluts and men ho do are just normal.

I think you'll find most people think women who like sex are great - it's women with multiple partners, particularly in a short time frame, who are most commonly called sluts.
But men in the same situation would, at worst, be labelled "play boys". There is a definite disparity in attitude.
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George Spigot

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Further reading suggests that the child has phimosis. If it can't be cured by other means then that makes things different. It becomes a medical issue and less of a grey area.

Anecdotally speaking I had phimosis in my thirties and had to get circumcised. I can tell you that it was far from a pleasant experience.

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Hiro's Leap

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quote:
Originally posted by Timothy the Obscure:
The men's average number was about the same under both conditions, but the women who were connected to the pseudo-polygraph reported significantly more partners than the ones who didn't think anyone would know if they were lying

Well, yes. Women downplay there sexual past for cultural reasons. If anything, it's slightly surprising that the men weren't exaggerating.

As IngoB has pointed out though, the number of sexual partners men and women have doesn't tell us much about their desire for casual encounters.

Some observations:
  • Desirable high status men (pop stars, Premiership footballers, A-list actors etc) have the opportunity to sleep with a lot of women, and they are frequently happy to do so. Other men often see this as one of the best reasons to become famous.
  • Men are often envious of male porn actors, and believe they would happily do the job for free.
  • A common male sexual fantasy is to be the only man on an island of women (or after Armageddon etc), and sleep with them all.
I'm not saying that all men actually want to go through with any of the above - they might have moral scruples, or be aware that the fantasy would be different to the reality. I'm certainly not arguing that women are naturally monogamous or lack sexual curiosity. Still, the idea of casually sleeping with a lot of women seems to appeal to a great many guys. As far as I can tell, this doesn't seem to be true for women.

(Also: far, far more men - straight and gay - are prepared to pay for casual sexual encounters than women. Is this just cultural?)

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George Spigot

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So distressing in fact that to this day I'm apt to post in completely the wrong thread.

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Hiro's Leap

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quote:
Originally posted by Hiro's Leap:
Women downplay there sexual past

Oh, the shame. [Hot and Hormonal]
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Brenda Clough
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I read somewhere recently of the numbers of condoms sold. Which is a very different way to measure how much sex people are having. The quantity of condoms sold is but a fraction of the number of sex acts people report in polls. Even if you put aside all the people who have vasectomies/are past menopause/are using other birth control/could care less, the numbers do not jive. Somebody is lying, and the theory is that it is not the condom manufacturers, who have to report honestly to their stockholders and accountants.

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Jay-Emm
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quote:
Originally posted by que sais-je:
quote:
Originally posted by Hiro's Leap:
Are there real differences between women and men in terms of sexuality? Are there different drives for promiscuity versus commitment? Are women more discerning about sexual partners?

I struggle with this. A small thought experiment: a group of say 100 male and 100 female heterosexual virgins find themselves on a desert island. A little maths will suggest that the average number of different sexual partners men have will be identical with the average number women have. After all, each new relationship is new for the man and the woman so both averages go up by the same amount.
...
So one difference between might be a tendency to exaggerate sexual prowess by men .... surely not.

Although there can easily be oddities that emerge. To take two stereotype cases (and exagerate them still further).

If say women partnered once at 20 to men at 80 (and all die at 100). Then the average number of events for men is .2 and for women .8

Similarly if one of the men is exceedingly popular and the rest get ignored. The expected value (average) if you take out of the population as a whole is 1 in both cases. But if you take immediately after a random encounter, then it's 1-50. And of course it's easy to consider mechanisms that are more like the latter survey than the former.

Yet another related oddity is that if we split them randomly into groups, then the average female will be in a group with more females than males, and vice versa.

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saysay

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quote:
Originally posted by Arethosemyfeet:
quote:
Originally posted by saysay:
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
Because women who like sex are sluts and men ho do are just normal.

I think you'll find most people think women who like sex are great - it's women with multiple partners, particularly in a short time frame, who are most commonly called sluts.
But men in the same situation would, at worst, be labelled "play boys". There is a definite disparity in attitude.
Maybe where you live. In my high school and college they got called sluts as well.

I'll grant you people didn't seem to look down on them in the same way, but we were still of the generation that got told that we were supposed to wait for marriage to have sex and direct all of our sexual energy towards one person.

Still, saying that society looks down on women who like sex is different to saying that society looks down on women who have a lot of sexual partners.

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"It's been a long day without you, my friend
I'll tell you all about it when I see you again"
"'Oh sweet baby purple Jesus' - that's a direct quote from a 9 year old - shoutout to purple Jesus."

Posts: 2943 | From: The Wire | Registered: May 2004  |  IP: Logged
The5thMary
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quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
quote:
Originally posted by Hiro's Leap:
Apparently this is statistically true, but I've heard of a lot women who are dissatisfied with their man's lack of interest. Age perhaps has an influence, as well as high individual variation?

I wonder how much libido varies by who has power in the realtionship.
And does this idea of yours also affect same sex relationships? For instance, I have not a jot of power in my relationship with my wife...well, are we talking money? I do get a scant $200 more than she does on Social Security but she is the dominant one in our relationship. She tells me to jump and I ask how high! Anyway, she has no libido whatsoever whereas I am a perpetual "horn dog". So, that sort of takes your theory and turns it upside down.

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God gave me my face but She let me pick my nose.

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lilBuddha
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quote:
Originally posted by The5thMary:
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
quote:
Originally posted by Hiro's Leap:
Apparently this is statistically true, but I've heard of a lot women who are dissatisfied with their man's lack of interest. Age perhaps has an influence, as well as high individual variation?

I wonder how much libido varies by who has power in the relationship.
And does this idea of yours also affect same sex relationships? For instance, I have not a jot of power in my relationship with my wife...well, are we talking money? I do get a scant $200 more than she does on Social Security but she is the dominant one in our relationship. She tells me to jump and I ask how high! Anyway, she has no libido whatsoever whereas I am a perpetual "horn dog". So, that sort of takes your theory and turns it upside down.
Well, no, it doesn't. First, one counter example does not disprove a social theory.
And is was speaking generally. There will always be exceptions and variation.
Third, I am not proposing it as solid, observable fact, but floating the idea to see what people thought.

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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou

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Timothy the Obscure

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Human sexuality is enormously complicated, and most of the attempts to explain it are hopelessly reductionist, the just-so stories of evolutionary psychology no more than the "it's all about patriarchy and power" version.

On the hard-wired side, there is a fairly robust body of evidence suggesting that women are more prone to sexual boredom than men, and more responsive to sexual novelty (i.e., a new partner). The common decline in sexual activity in marriage is very likely to due to women just losing interest a too-familiar partner. There are, of course, massive cultural forces that have been deployed to conceal this and prevent women from following that proclivity for new men. There's really not much evidence that women are any more innately monogamous than men.

On the cultural side, the power dynamic can't be discounted. Historically, women's power has mostly been derived from the man they were attached to, and they derived that power by being able to grant or withhold sexual favors. In couple therapy, I've often worked with clients where mismatched sexual desire was the issue (it's not always male>female). I recall one woman who said she thought I was trying to get her to have sex when she didn't want to. I said, "I don't want you have any sex you don't want--but it's possible that you might end up wanting more sex." She visibly started and looked genuinely alarmed at the idea that she might come to have as much desire as her husband. She later said that if she actually desired sex she would feel less free to withhold it, and so would lose all her power in the relationship (which was probably not true, but it felt very real to her).

A couple of recent books exploring various facets of this are Sex At Dawn and What Do Women Want?, which don't come to exactly the same conclusions, but both agree that the traditional western cultural image of female sexuality is a fable constructed to relieve male insecurity.

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When you think of the long and gloomy history of man, you will find more hideous crimes have been committed in the name of obedience than have ever been committed in the name of rebellion.
  - C. P. Snow

Posts: 6114 | From: PDX | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
IngoB

Sentire cum Ecclesia
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quote:
Originally posted by Timothy the Obscure:
On the hard-wired side, there is a fairly robust body of evidence suggesting that women are more prone to sexual boredom than men, and more responsive to sexual novelty (i.e., a new partner).

What "fairly robust body of evidence" are you talking about? Mind you, it would be quite entertaining if this were true. Antique to pre-modern Christian societies have often been condemned for their consideration of women as being the bigger problem as far as lustfulness is concerned, in their monogamous cultural setting. That was supposed to be mere "patriarchal projection". Are you saying that we now have a "fairly robust body of evidence" that they got it right all along?

quote:
Originally posted by Timothy the Obscure:
... both agree that the traditional western cultural image of female sexuality is a fable constructed to relieve male insecurity.

The actual "traditional" Western cultural image of female sexuality does not seem to be particularly at odds with what you are saying here. It considered female sexuality to be more "active and adventurous", on average, and consequently considered the control of female sexuality to be a bigger issue in maintaining monogamous, faithful marriages. This is not at odds with men playing the visibly active role in a social sense concerning the setting up of sexual relations: women were considered to mainly tempt and seduce men into action. The idea that men are the sole actors in matter of sex, and women are merely responding reluctantly, is not so much "traditional" as perhaps early modern...

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They’ll have me whipp’d for speaking true; thou’lt have me whipp’d for lying; and sometimes I am whipp’d for holding my peace. - The Fool in King Lear

Posts: 12010 | From: Gone fishing | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged
itsarumdo
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The heredity figures from large scale genetic profiling suggests that about 4% of children are fathered outside the marriage (internationally this varies between 0.8 to 30%).

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"Iti sapis potanda tinone" Lycophron

Posts: 994 | From: Planet Zog | Registered: Jul 2014  |  IP: Logged
saysay

Ship's Praying Mantis
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quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
quote:
Originally posted by The5thMary:
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
quote:
Originally posted by Hiro's Leap:
Apparently this is statistically true, but I've heard of a lot women who are dissatisfied with their man's lack of interest. Age perhaps has an influence, as well as high individual variation?

I wonder how much libido varies by who has power in the relationship.
And does this idea of yours also affect same sex relationships? For instance, I have not a jot of power in my relationship with my wife...well, are we talking money? I do get a scant $200 more than she does on Social Security but she is the dominant one in our relationship. She tells me to jump and I ask how high! Anyway, she has no libido whatsoever whereas I am a perpetual "horn dog". So, that sort of takes your theory and turns it upside down.
Well, no, it doesn't. First, one counter example does not disprove a social theory.
And is was speaking generally. There will always be exceptions and variation.
Third, I am not proposing it as solid, observable fact, but floating the idea to see what people thought.

Well, if you'd like to know what I think, first you're going to have to define "power". Are we solely talking economic power?

More generally, I find the assumption that one person necessarily holds the power in a relationship depressing. And verging on a contradiction in terms.

But I'm still not sure what "traditional" views on sexuality are.

--------------------
"It's been a long day without you, my friend
I'll tell you all about it when I see you again"
"'Oh sweet baby purple Jesus' - that's a direct quote from a 9 year old - shoutout to purple Jesus."

Posts: 2943 | From: The Wire | Registered: May 2004  |  IP: Logged
lilBuddha
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quote:
Originally posted by saysay:
Well, if you'd like to know what I think, first you're going to have to define "power". Are we solely talking economic power?

However has the most control, in those relationships with such an imbalance.
quote:
Originally posted by saysay:

More generally, I find the assumption that one person necessarily holds the power in a relationship depressing. And verging on a contradiction in terms.

Depressing, I agree. Reality for some, though.
quote:
Originally posted by saysay:

But I'm still not sure what "traditional" views on sexuality are.

Not part of my question.

--------------------
I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou

Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008  |  IP: Logged
Gramps49
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# 16378

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There are some interesting studies out there that says many people chose their partners based on body odor--not that we should be stinky, but that we should not cover up how we naturally smell. One study I am familiar with say it is a way for the partners to find a genetic match

http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2013/sep/08/can-you-smell-perfect-partner

Interesting side story: with the promotion of Viagra and similar medications, STD's are increasing at a higher rate in older adults than young adults. Now retirement centers are encouraging the use of protection.

Posts: 2193 | From: Pullman WA | Registered: Apr 2011  |  IP: Logged
L'organist
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<tangent>

Rod Liddle wrote in The Times last week about fancying Adrian Turner, the actor playing Ross Poldark in the latest BBC series.

Today there are 3 more men admitting to crushes on other men (David Beckham amongst them, of course).
</tangent>

ANYWAY.

Maybe if people could finally accept that both sexes like and dislike sex in equal measure, depending on circumstance, things might move on a bit.

(And the thing about condom numbers above could partially be explained with their almost universal use over rifle barrels in the military to keep out moisture and muck.)

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Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet

Posts: 4950 | From: somewhere in England... | Registered: Sep 2012  |  IP: Logged
Jack o' the Green
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# 11091

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Such users obviously haven't heard the rhyme;
"This is a rifle, this is a gun. One is for firing, the other's for fun."

It loses something without the actions.

Posts: 3121 | From: Lancashire, England | Registered: Feb 2006  |  IP: Logged
Belle Ringer
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# 13379

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I have a couple of female friends who, at about menopause, decided to "have as much fun as they can" because "I got hitched (one homo, one hetero) early and missed the fun." One takes off a week at a time to go be with a different man, the other has lots of partners in the local area. The partners don't like it but the couples are still in their committed relationships.

I have no idea if these two are unusual, or if feeling "free" when the threat of pregnancy declines is "common" or if they are reflecting societal change and this will become "common."

"Swinging sixties" might be or become a phase of elder life rather than just a historical reference?

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quetzalcoatl
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# 16740

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I've known guys who decided that HRT women were itching for it; they seem to have found some agreement.

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I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.

Posts: 9878 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2011  |  IP: Logged
L'organist
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That sounds a bit like Robin Rinaldi and The Wild Oats project: but at the end of the year RR and her partner ended up parting and both now have different partners.

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Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet

Posts: 4950 | From: somewhere in England... | Registered: Sep 2012  |  IP: Logged
quetzalcoatl
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# 16740

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And I'm reminded of une femme d'un certain age (a woman of a certain age), who sometimes says, well, I thought I would be invisible after 45, but I've been asked out half a dozen times in the last fortnight.

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I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.

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cliffdweller
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# 13338

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quote:
Originally posted by quetzalcoatl:
And I'm reminded of une femme d'un certain age (a woman of a certain age), who sometimes says, well, I thought I would be invisible after 45, but I've been asked out half a dozen times in the last fortnight.

This has decidedly not been my post-45 experience. *small sigh* Thankfully I'm already happily paired.

But the invisibility thing has its advantages.

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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner

Posts: 11242 | From: a small canyon overlooking the city | Registered: Jan 2008  |  IP: Logged
quetzalcoatl
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# 16740

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quote:
Originally posted by cliffdweller:
quote:
Originally posted by quetzalcoatl:
And I'm reminded of une femme d'un certain age (a woman of a certain age), who sometimes says, well, I thought I would be invisible after 45, but I've been asked out half a dozen times in the last fortnight.

This has decidedly not been my post-45 experience. *small sigh* Thankfully I'm already happily paired.

But the invisibility thing has its advantages.

There are some theories that we radiate availability, when we feel it, I mean. I don't know if people who are paired get asked out less, cos they have a shut-in and harassed look, must remember the toilet paper, and the eldest is coming home this week-end with all his laundry, and fuck, the Chardonnay has run out, must renew.

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I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.

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