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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Powell & Pressburger
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betjemaniac
Shipmate
# 17618
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Posted
A tangent from the Classic Hollywood thread for a writer/producer/director partnership that simultaneously managed to out-Hollywood Hollywood, whilst being about as far removed from tinseltown as it was possible to be whilst still making films.
I know there are other fans around on here, so what is it that made them great? I've spent years trying to put my finger on exactly why their films speak to me in a way that no others do (maybe you have to be English?)
The most interesting (to me) thought I've had so far is that there's potentially something in their Perry & Croft style loyalty to certain actors - they got far more out of Roger Livesey than anyone else ever did, and Pamela Brown's performance in I Know Where I'm Going! was the best thing she ever did.
Other potential thoughts - did they have to make A Canterbury Tale and IKWIG! in order to work up the sexual tensions needed for Black Narcissus?
To what extent did everything really hinge on Pressburger's writing above all? It's notable that one of their few comparative failures, Gone to Earth, was an adaptation of the Mary Webb novel not an original screenplay.
Or was it a true partnership, based on trust and mutual support (sample favourite quote something along the lines, from memory, of
Powell: "why's this girl trying to get to Kiloran anyway?"
Pressburger: "let's make the film and find out.")
How far should Jack Cardiff be counted as the third Archer? His cinematography was some of the most groundbreaking of the 20th century (IMO obviously).
Where did they truly reach the pinnacle of film-making?
And is there anyone out there who's never understood what all the fuss was about?
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Posts: 1481 | From: behind the dreaming spires | Registered: Mar 2013
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Tubbs
Miss Congeniality
# 440
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Posted
Ohhhhh! I love these films more than I can express!
What made them great was that their films weren’t like anything else being done at the time. Partly because they seem to have such a strong vision for how films should be – the look and feel, the themes, the writing etc – and they pretty much kept to that even when it wasn’t popular! They also gathered around them some amazing behind the scenes and front of house talent who made their vision come to life.
I think it was a true partnership as neither made anything solo that matched what they did together.
The pinnacle for me was "A matter of ..." and I did use it as a potential boyfriend sorter. If they didn't get it, there was no point! [Rev T got it, so I kept him! ;}]
Rev T’s out tonight, I shall have to break out a P&P …!
Tubbs
[ 25. February 2015, 11:31: Message edited by: Tubbs ]
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"It's better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than open it up and remove all doubt" - Dennis Thatcher. My blog. Decide for yourself which I am
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Adeodatus
Shipmate
# 4992
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Posted
Before I looked them up just now, the only P&P films I could have named were A Matter of Life and Death, Black Narcissus and The Life and Death of Colonel Blimp. (I thought the superb 1941 Gaslight with Anton Walbrook was one, but I didn't see it listed in their filmography.) All the ones I've seen are works of genius, though I admit I haven't seen any of them for years now. In particular, if AMoLaD isn't in everybody's list of top 10 British films ever made, then the list is wrong.
I think what made them great is partly that they didn't pay much attention to the cinematic rule book: they thought and did things that were just unconventional enough to make their films interesting beyond their immediate time and social context.
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"What is broken, repair with gold."
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Tubbs
Miss Congeniality
# 440
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Adeodatus:
Before I looked them up just now, the only P&P films I could have named were A Matter of Life and Death, Black Narcissus and The Life and Death of Colonel Blimp. (I thought the superb 1941 Gaslight with Anton Walbrook was one, but I didn't see it listed in their filmography.) All the ones I've seen are works of genius, though I admit I haven't seen any of them for years now. In particular, if AMoLaD isn't in everybody's list of top 10 British films ever made, then the list is wrong.
I think what made them great is partly that they didn't pay much attention to the cinematic rule book: they thought and did things that were just unconventional enough to make their films interesting beyond their immediate time and social context.
One of the problems with P&P having a cast of actors is that you assume that any film starring Actor X is one of theirs.
Gaslight (the UK one) is an excellent film. What I didn't know, until I looked it up just now to see who actually did direct it - Thorold Dickinson - was that MGM tried to destroy all the copies to pave the way for their not so great remake. ![[Disappointed]](graemlins/disappointed.gif)
That's list of 10 Greatest Films Ever Made. End of, BTW.
Tubbs
[ 25. February 2015, 11:42: Message edited by: Tubbs ]
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"It's better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than open it up and remove all doubt" - Dennis Thatcher. My blog. Decide for yourself which I am
Posts: 12701 | From: Someplace strange | Registered: Jun 2001
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betjemaniac
Shipmate
# 17618
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Posted
I've said it before but my favourite is A Canterbury Tale. Unfortunately it's a film of such delicate beauty, and hits me so squarely between the eyes, that I virtually never suggest it to anyone because I worry that they'll laugh at it.
I almost feel protective of it, and only want to show it to true believers.
If I ever find a girl who gets it the way I do, I will marry her!
Frankly Tubbs, I think you were on an easier gig using AMOLAD as a boyfriend screener...
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And is it true? For if it is....
Posts: 1481 | From: behind the dreaming spires | Registered: Mar 2013
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Tubbs
Miss Congeniality
# 440
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by betjemaniac:
... Frankly Tubbs, I think you were on an easier gig using AMOLAD as a boyfriend screener...
![[Killing me]](graemlins/killingme.gif)
It rid me of a few frogs over the years before I finally found my prince. [And, I'll add this before everyone else does! ![[Projectile]](graemlins/puke2.gif) ]
Tubbs
[ 25. February 2015, 12:44: Message edited by: Tubbs ]
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"It's better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than open it up and remove all doubt" - Dennis Thatcher. My blog. Decide for yourself which I am
Posts: 12701 | From: Someplace strange | Registered: Jun 2001
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L'organist
Shipmate
# 17338
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Posted
How can you talk about Powell & Pressburger without mentioning Battle of the River Plate?
One of the great WWII movies which faithfully reproduced the actions prior to the scuttling of the Graf Spee, two of the ships four allied ships involved were in the film.
Also missing from your P&P lists is The Red Shoes, another great film.
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Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet
Posts: 4950 | From: somewhere in England... | Registered: Sep 2012
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betjemaniac
Shipmate
# 17618
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:
How can you talk about Powell & Pressburger without mentioning Battle of the River Plate?
One of the great WWII movies which faithfully reproduced the actions prior to the scuttling of the Graf Spee, two of the ships four allied ships involved were in the film.
Also missing from your P&P lists is The Red Shoes, another great film.
I like the Red Shoes, but it's not one I revisit too often for some reason.
As a former sailor, I'm a big fan of the River Plate, but afaic it's a very straightforward war film, much like their other one (filmed the following year) Ill Met By Moonlight.
If I was going to try and convince people that P&P were cinematic geniuses I'm not sure I'd start with either.
On the other hand, if it had to be a war film I might consider 49th Parallel for the job - that really does have the power to take peoples' breath away.
But the ones that can actually make me *cry*:
A Canterbury Tale
The Life and Death of Colonel Blimp
A Matter of Life and Death
I Know Where I'm Going!
And Powell's earlier solo work, The Edge of the World.
A Canterbury Tale is a film everyone should watch before they die.
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And is it true? For if it is....
Posts: 1481 | From: behind the dreaming spires | Registered: Mar 2013
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betjemaniac
Shipmate
# 17618
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Posted
actually, sorry for double posting, I'll give you a couple of moment in River Plate where the Archers showed again what they were capable of:
the scene where the captains row over for a conference on the flagship, shot over the oars of one of the boats
the whole Montevideo waterfront sequence.
Christmas aboard the Graf Spee.
It's like P&P suddenly remembered who they were and stuffed a couple of moments of genius into a straight telling of historical fact.
But they don't really compare to:
- the shot of the operating theatre through Peter's closing eye
- launching a hawk into the air and it becoming a spitfire in a cross-cut (20 odd years before Kurbrick was lauded for doing the same thing in 2001 ASO).
- Roger Livesey diving into a swimming pool as an old man and emerging as a 20-something.
- the whole tracking shot through the ruins of Canterbury in ACT.
I think that's why I love them, the moments of genius in works of genius.
Their straightforward films are great, but their great films are transcendent.
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And is it true? For if it is....
Posts: 1481 | From: behind the dreaming spires | Registered: Mar 2013
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Niminypiminy
Shipmate
# 15489
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Posted
I love A Canterbury Tale. I love its allusive, dawdling, contingent nature - the wonderful cinematography, the use of sound - particularly music. And the way it's content to be mysterious.
(I'm taken, btw ![[Biased]](wink.gif) )
Posts: 776 | From: Edge of the Fens | Registered: Feb 2010
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Eigon
Shipmate
# 4917
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Posted
There's the duel in Colonel Blimp, too, where they're leading up to it being such an important event, and then you only see it from very high up and far away.
The first time I saw that film, I was really too young to understand what was going on, but the bit where his house "becomes a lake" made me cry.
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Laugh hard. Run fast. Be kind.
Posts: 3710 | From: Hay-on-Wye, town of books | Registered: Aug 2003
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Adeodatus
Shipmate
# 4992
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Tubbs:
quote:
Originally posted by Adeodatus:
Before I looked them up just now, the only P&P films I could have named were A Matter of Life and Death, Black Narcissus and The Life and Death of Colonel Blimp. (I thought the superb 1941 Gaslight with Anton Walbrook was one, but I didn't see it listed in their filmography.) All the ones I've seen are works of genius, though I admit I haven't seen any of them for years now. In particular, if AMoLaD isn't in everybody's list of top 10 British films ever made, then the list is wrong.
I think what made them great is partly that they didn't pay much attention to the cinematic rule book: they thought and did things that were just unconventional enough to make their films interesting beyond their immediate time and social context.
One of the problems with P&P having a cast of actors is that you assume that any film starring Actor X is one of theirs.
Gaslight (the UK one) is an excellent film. What I didn't know, until I looked it up just now to see who actually did direct it - Thorold Dickinson - was that MGM tried to destroy all the copies to pave the way for their not so great remake.
That's list of 10 Greatest Films Ever Made. End of, BTW.
Tubbs
Yes, Walbrook was in the P&P rep company, wasn't he? In Gaslight, just the way he says the name "Bella" sends a chill down my spine.
I think I need a P&P binge now, but I don't have any on DVD ![[Frown]](frown.gif) I've never seen A Canterbury Tale but it sounds like just my thing.
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"What is broken, repair with gold."
Posts: 9779 | From: Manchester | Registered: Sep 2003
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Sparrow
Shipmate
# 2458
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by betjemaniac:
I've said it before but my favourite is A Canterbury Tale. Unfortunately it's a film of such delicate beauty, and hits me so squarely between the eyes, that I virtually never suggest it to anyone because I worry that they'll laugh at it.
I almost feel protective of it, and only want to show it to true believers.
If I ever find a girl who gets it the way I do, I will marry her!
Frankly Tubbs, I think you were on an easier gig using AMOLAD as a boyfriend screener...
I love it too though it's a few years since I've seen it. It got me through that scene where the hero walks into Canterbury Cathedral and starts talking to the organist, and is invited to play the organ ... and starts playing the Bach Toccata. So moving.
![[Overused]](graemlins/notworthy.gif)
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For I am persuaded that neither death, nor life,nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present nor things to come, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
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betjemaniac
Shipmate
# 17618
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Sparrow:
quote:
Originally posted by betjemaniac:
I've said it before but my favourite is A Canterbury Tale. Unfortunately it's a film of such delicate beauty, and hits me so squarely between the eyes, that I virtually never suggest it to anyone because I worry that they'll laugh at it.
I almost feel protective of it, and only want to show it to true believers.
If I ever find a girl who gets it the way I do, I will marry her!
Frankly Tubbs, I think you were on an easier gig using AMOLAD as a boyfriend screener...
I love it too though it's a few years since I've seen it. It got me through that scene where the hero walks into Canterbury Cathedral and starts talking to the organist, and is invited to play the organ ... and starts playing the Bach Toccata. So moving.
One of the bits that always quietly sets me off is actually the end credits where the same children who were playing soldiers in the "battle" scene are now playing football.
No one ever approached "who are we and why are we fighting?" in quite the same way.
Awesome, awesome, awesome, genius.
And tragically (in some ways) made even more poignant by how much of it is now a historical record of what we *were* fighting for and yet have somehow lost since...
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Posts: 1481 | From: behind the dreaming spires | Registered: Mar 2013
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Albertus
Shipmate
# 13356
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Posted
It's one of those films- The Way to the Stars (not I know P&P) is another- that leaves me quiet and thoughtful and possibly slightly tearful for a couple of days after watching it, such is the sense of loss that it engenders.
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My beard is a testament to my masculinity and virility, and demonstrates that I am a real man. Trouble is, bits of quiche sometimes get caught in it.
Posts: 6498 | From: Y Sowth | Registered: Jan 2008
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betjemaniac
Shipmate
# 17618
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Albertus:
It's one of those films- The Way to the Stars (not I know P&P) is another- that leaves me quiet and thoughtful and possibly slightly tearful for a couple of days after watching it, such is the sense of loss that it engenders.
Not P&P, but it did have Anthony Asquith directing and a Terence Rattigan screenplay so it's not too shabby! It also features one of my candidates for most-underrated-whilst-at-the-same-time-recognisable-actor-of-the-1940s, Bonar Colleano, who is, of course, also in AMOLAD (playing basically the same character as far as I can work out).
Eric Porter (back on A Canterbury Tale) is a deeply odd anti-hero though, even by P&P's standards.
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And is it true? For if it is....
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Albertus
Shipmate
# 13356
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Posted
Oh yes- Bonar Colleano- I've seen who he is now- agree entirely.
BTW, had you noticed that the Warrant Officer aircrew (forget the character's name now) in TWTTS is played, under his earlier name of I think Rowbotham, by Bill Owen? There you are: AMOLAD to Last of the Summer Wine in two...
[ 26. February 2015, 13:43: Message edited by: Albertus ]
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My beard is a testament to my masculinity and virility, and demonstrates that I am a real man. Trouble is, bits of quiche sometimes get caught in it.
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Sarasa
Shipmate
# 12271
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Posted
When we hadn't known each other long I took my (now) husband to see The Life and Death of Colonel Blimp. I'm not sure what he made of it, but he loved my enthusiasm for P&P and that was enough to convince me it was a worthwhile relationship. We both think the start of A Matter of Life and Death is one of the best scenes in the history of cinema.
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'I guess things didn't go so well tonight, but I'm trying. Lord, I'm trying.' Charlie (Harvey Keitel) in Mean Streets.
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