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Source: (consider it) Thread: PTSD
Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528

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I know there's a bunch of Shipmates with PTSD. I'm wondering... what do you do when it flares up again? Besides seeing the doc, I mean. I'm wondering about at-home comfort-type measures.

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Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!

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Huia
Shipmate
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Because being raped was one of the major causes of my PTSD I have tried to turn the anniversary of that day into a time of enjoyment. Sometimes I get out of the city and go and watch the dolphins on Akaroa Harbour. There's something about dolphins that lifts my spirits.

Bubble baths and shower gels - Huia's do-it- yourself aromatherapy.

Reading. Have a holiday in someone else's world.

Some form of outside exercise, beach walking, or lately gardening, which has the double advantage of producing something tangible that I can enjoy in the future.

Soup making from scratch. This one is a bit more sociable than my other activities as I share the results with others.

Getting into the bush. Unfortunately Christchurch itself is devoid of native bush apart from a tiny scrap where I sometimes go and sit.

I'm not sure how helpful this list may be for you, given our very different environments and circumstances, but I hope something might spark a useful idea.

Huia

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Charity gives food from the table, Justice gives a place at the table.

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saysay

Ship's Praying Mantis
# 6645

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The section on 'Think about your body as well as your head' has some of what I was going to write.

I try to make sure I stick to eating nutritious meals, even if it means I have to get someone else to cook them. And regular exercise. And paying attention to how my body feels so that when the adrenaline dump starts I can get up and walk around instead of waiting until I'm crying and shaking because I'm trying so hard to pretend that I'm not having an adrenaline rush because it's all in my head and no one's pointing a gun at me right now so what the hell is my problem.

Weird trick that works for me: briefly doing some form of exercise that raises my heart rate (jumping jacks, stepping on and of a stair or curb really quickly, etc.) It seems to trick my mind into thinking there's a good reason for the elevated heartbeat and rapid breathing which makes it easier to calm down. (This requires understanding coworkers, which you may not have). Finger games and squish toys can help when that's the case.

Music. Dance. Not formal ballroom dancing, just moving to the music.

Talking with others about whether or not the danger I fear is real or only in my head (when possible).

Accepting that I will never understand the mindset of someone who deliberately lies/ does things solely in order to hurt someone else, and consciously not putting myself in their position in order to try to understand why they would do something like that. I will never understand.

Telling people to cough or make some kind of noise when they come in a room I'm in so I know that they're there and don't jump sky high when I look up from my book/computer monitor/whatever and am surprised to see them.

Telling people that for right now it would be better if they didn't approach me from behind especially if they are going to touch me. In general when I'm jumping that high over nothing it's a good idea to make sure I see you and know that you are going to touch me before you do so. Reminding people that it's not them, it's me, and they didn't do anything wrong by seeing that I was upset and trying to put a hand on my shoulder to comfort me. Remembering that even though I'm jumpy and wary of touch even from people I trust, people need a certain amount of non-sexual touch, and I should get it from people I trust or animals.

That's what I come up with off the top of my head, but I feel like I'm forgetting something.

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"It's been a long day without you, my friend
I'll tell you all about it when I see you again"
"'Oh sweet baby purple Jesus' - that's a direct quote from a 9 year old - shoutout to purple Jesus."

Posts: 2943 | From: The Wire | Registered: May 2004  |  IP: Logged
no prophet's flag is set so...

Proceed to see sea
# 15560

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The epidemiology of PTSD is rather high, so it quite reasonable that a sizeable group are a represented shipboard. I was already looking at this today so had it in another browser tab when saw this thread. From National Center for PTSD (USA):

quote:
The National Comorbidity Survey Replication (NCS-R), conducted between February 2001 and April 2003... lifetime prevalence of PTSD among adult Americans to be 6.8% (1). Current past year PTSD prevalence was estimated at 3.5% (2).The lifetime prevalence of PTSD among men was 3.6% and among women was 9.7%. The twelve month prevalence was 1.8% among men and 5.2% among women (3).
Key things I think of (not repeating from above) are remembering that it was specific and narrow circumstances and not letting the mind spread perception of risks wider. That's probably the most important one. Being damn careful to not take on others' trauma either. One way to keep brain on track is repeating something, like a piece of music, poem or a well practiced prayer. I like some cadences of words from liturgy.

Vigourous physical activity, or something else that's strainful enough to make the sweating in the moment a lot more important than other thoughts. It's got to be a routine, though I'd call it preventative maintenance versus dealing with flare-ups. I like building it into the day as something to look forward to.

Dog. Cat. They live in the moment and seem to be good teachers about that.

Not listening to some news stories and avoidance of some media (TV, movies, books) completely.

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Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
\_(ツ)_/

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saysay

Ship's Praying Mantis
# 6645

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quote:
Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:
Key things I think of (not repeating from above) are remembering that it was specific and narrow circumstances and not letting the mind spread perception of risks wider. That's probably the most important one. Being damn careful to not take on others' trauma either. One way to keep brain on track is repeating something, like a piece of music, poem or a well practiced prayer. I like some cadences of words from liturgy.

And that's what I was forgetting.

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"It's been a long day without you, my friend
I'll tell you all about it when I see you again"
"'Oh sweet baby purple Jesus' - that's a direct quote from a 9 year old - shoutout to purple Jesus."

Posts: 2943 | From: The Wire | Registered: May 2004  |  IP: Logged
chive

Ship's nude
# 208

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I find when I wake up with nightmares it's useful to have a piece of paper stuck up next to my bed with things like 'My name is chive. I am depressing years old. It was a nightmare and it wasn't real. Go downstairs now and do whatever' written on it very useful as it reorientates me as to what is reality and what is nightmare.

I also find knitting useful when I'm struggling to cope. Wool is soft and soothing, following a pattern involves just enough concentration to keep my mind on that rather than what's going on in my head.

Randomly I also find chewing gum useful as it gives me something tangibly physical in the present to concentrate on when flashbacks etc confuse me about the present and the past.

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'Edward was the kind of man who thought there was no such thing as a lesbian, just a woman who hadn't done one-to-one Bible study with him.' Catherine Fox, Love to the Lost

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Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528

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My doctor told me I should listen to music for at least half an hour, but it had to be something I knew well enough to anticipate what came next--something about the way the brain anticipates and is satisfied, I think.

It seems to help.

--------------------
Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!

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ArachnidinElmet
Shipmate
# 17346

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I've read in a couple of different places about how playing Tetris, and presumably other similar puzzle-like games, helps. It occupies the brain, without leaving space for unwelcome thoughts.
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Stercus Tauri
Shipmate
# 16668

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quote:
Originally posted by Lamb Chopped:
My doctor told me I should listen to music for at least half an hour, but it had to be something I knew well enough to anticipate what came next--something about the way the brain anticipates and is satisfied, I think.

It seems to help.

That is very good advice. Familiar books can have the same securing effect - they can be a time machine to let you travel a different, safer, time and place, but have to be used carefully, because you have to come back afterwards.

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Thay haif said. Quhat say thay, Lat thame say (George Keith, 5th Earl Marischal)

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Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528

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I can use this right now. Just got word that my sister's ovarian cancer has been changed from stage 1 to stage 3 (spread into abdomen).

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Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!

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Welease Woderwick

Sister Incubus Nightmare
# 10424

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Note, please, that I don't have PTSD, but...

In the past, when under a lot of stress, I found screaming useful. I didn't scream in the office, much though I would have liked to, but I did scream at home, into a pillow or cushion held [by me!] across my face and also I used to scream on my way home in the car, usually in the Mersey Tunnel - closed car, noisy tunnel, visualise the person or situation, three deep breaths and then the longest, loudest scream I could manage - quite often followed by a mild giggle.

I also found the very fact of travelling the tunnel to be useful so I was more demonstrably leaving work behind and being reborn into another life.

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I give thanks for unknown blessings already on their way.
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What part of Matt. 7:1 don't you understand?

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maleveque
Shipmate
# 132

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quote:
Originally posted by Stercus Tauri:
quote:
Originally posted by Lamb Chopped:
My doctor told me I should listen to music for at least half an hour, but it had to be something I knew well enough to anticipate what came next--something about the way the brain anticipates and is satisfied, I think.

It seems to help.

That is very good advice. Familiar books can have the same securing effect - they can be a time machine to let you travel a different, safer, time and place, but have to be used carefully, because you have to come back afterwards.
Fascinating! I wonder if this is why I am so perturbed when the spousal unit puts music on 'shuffle'? Also, I think I may have been self 'medicating' by reading, re-reading, re-re-reading Dorothy Sayers, wringing every last cosy bit out.
- Anne L.

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Life isn't all fricasseed frogs and eel pie.

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Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528

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Ooh, I do that too! I suppose it's the mental equivalent of a duvet day. Nothing can get me under the covers...

--------------------
Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!

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North East Quine

Curious beastie
# 13049

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I don't have PTSD, but I've just flipped out over something today, and realised that my reaction is disproportionate.

Two days after our son was stillborn, husband and I were at the undertakers organising the funeral. One thing we had to decide was whether we should buy a family plot, and bury him in it, or whether he should be buried in the stillbirth section of the cemetery.

The undertaker said that we had to think - if one of our older children died, would we want all our dead children in the same plot (i.e. buy a family plot) or would we be ok with them buried separately. And I wanted to weep and wail and tear my hair at the very thought that we might bury one of our older two, but of course I couldn't, because we had a funeral to organise. So I had to remain very calm and discuss our plans for the potential deaths of our older children. And remaining calm was difficult anyway, because it was two days after the stillbirth and two days after our first two were born I was at home in my PJs, whereas this time I had to cope physically with getting dressed and going into town for an appointment, despite the physical aftermath of birth, like bleeding and leaking milk, and physically still being sore, and I had to choke down the grief and be rational. It was just very hard, even before the undertaker said I also had to think about the possible deaths of my older two.

In the event, we didn't buy a family plot.

But somehow, having calmly discussed it, it has seemed hideously possible that we might have to bury one of the older ones one day.

Anyway, to today. Yesterday husband drove over some loose chippings and now the brakes hiss when the brake pedal is depressed, which apparently means there's a small hole in a membrane which will be serious over time as it will grow bigger, but isn't serious yet (brakes work just fine). And we have booked the car into the garage, so it will be fixed before it develops into a real problem. But when my husband said he couldn't see why I shouldn't drive our daughter in the meantime, I flipped.

The words "problem with brakes" and "daughter in car" in the same conversation and I lost all sense of proportion. I was back in that undertaker's office, discussing whether we'd want all our children listed on the same gravestone, or whether we'd be okay to have our dead children buried in some sort of random distribution in different places.

This is not healthy, nor fair on my husband. And I have lost two hours this morning to feelings of panic and dread, and I need to get a grip.

(I can get a grip re letting the kids do things they want - they've both travelled, I don't stop them, or restrict them. But I do get panicky if I think there's any specific threat, even if, as with the car today, it's nebulous.)

I feel sick, and breathless and I'm seeing that undertaker's office again. I'm ok for months on end and then this hits me again.

Posts: 6414 | From: North East Scotland | Registered: Oct 2007  |  IP: Logged
Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984

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You can choose not to use the car until its repaired. If you know doing so, or your husband doing so, will make you very distressed - that is an entirely rational decision. Your grief and trauma are a real and important things - and you are entitled to make decisions that take them into account.

In so far as it possible, given how you are currently feeling, try to distract yourself and be kind to yourself. Try doing something that needs a little concentration candy crush or crosswords, a little reading.

[ 30. June 2015, 12:36: Message edited by: Doublethink. ]

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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell

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mark_in_manchester

not waving, but...
# 15978

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NEQ - this is a man's reply, in the worst possible way - but as you've perhaps been advised the hiss means your 'servo- assisted' brake function will slowly get less effective. All this means is you will be braking like it's 1970 again - ie both feet on the pedal and bum out of the seat before you can get the wheels to lock. Brakes will not 'stop working' with no warning - but of course it is not ideal to prod the pedal and not be entirely confident how much retardation will result, so getting the (rather minor) fix done soon is a good idea. It may just be a hose between the brake servo and the vacuum supply, whether that's the inlet manifold (petrol) or vac pump (diesel).

Well, facts help my background sense of panic and unease, sometimes

[Smile]

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"We are punished by our sins, not for them" - Elbert Hubbard
(so good, I wanted to see it after my posts and not only after those of shipmate JBohn from whom I stole it)

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jacobsen

seeker
# 14998

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@NEQ - a horrendous potential decision to be asked about, and no wonder you lost it rather over the car. Be gentle with yourself.


[Votive]

PS - Do undertakers receive any training on how to approach distraught customers? The choice he was giving you may have been good business practice, but was dreadful, both humanly speaking and as customer relations.

[ 30. June 2015, 17:23: Message edited by: jacobsen ]

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But God, holding a candle, looks for all who wander, all who search. - Shifra Alon
Beauty fades, dumb is forever-Judge Judy
The man who made time, made plenty.

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North East Quine

Curious beastie
# 13049

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Update - I realised I wasn't going to relax and there would be friction between myself and the North East Man until it was fixed. I found out that the city Honda dealership garage could see the car today, rather than our usual local garage which was fully booked up.

So I drove into the city, with the hiss getting, I thought, steadily worse but the brakes working fine, or so I thought.

And it turned out our front brakes were totally buggered and non functioning, and when I'd braked, only the back brakes had been working. Which is bad, apparently. The mechanic said he wouldn't have allowed any of his children to travel in our car, given the state of the brakes.

The brakes weren't going to "stop working" in a crashing into things sense, instead the hiss was going to morph into a grinding metal sound, at which point whoever was driving would have had to pull into the side of the road and wait for assistance. There are a couple of accident black spots on my route into the city where I wouldn't have felt safe at the side of the road.

Anyway, several hours (and several hundred pounds later [Frown] ) I'm back home and thanking God for my "over-reaction" this morning.

But I'd still prefer to be more rational, and not have the jittery, panicky reaction and the flash backs. And if I'd been calm, I could have lost only the 5 hours involved in driving in and out, and waiting for the car to be fixed, rather than preceding that with two hours of panic and one hour of jitters and writing the whole day off.

Posts: 6414 | From: North East Scotland | Registered: Oct 2007  |  IP: Logged
Anglo Catholic Relict
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# 17213

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quote:
Originally posted by North East Quine:
I don't have PTSD, but I've just flipped out over something today, and realised that my reaction is disproportionate.
...

I feel sick, and breathless and I'm seeing that undertaker's office again. I'm ok for months on end and then this hits me again.

Are you sure you don't have PTSD?
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Anglo Catholic Relict
Shipmate
# 17213

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quote:
Originally posted by North East Quine:

But I'd still prefer to be more rational, and not have the jittery, panicky reaction and the flash backs. And if I'd been calm, I could have lost only the 5 hours involved in driving in and out, and waiting for the car to be fixed, rather than preceding that with two hours of panic and one hour of jitters and writing the whole day off.

As it happens you were rational, and your response was proportionate, even if it did not feel like it. Well done!

I would have been the same, I think; I don't take chances with brakes or tyres. (I have PTSD).

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Anglo Catholic Relict
Shipmate
# 17213

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quote:
Originally posted by Lamb Chopped:
I know there's a bunch of Shipmates with PTSD. I'm wondering... what do you do when it flares up again? Besides seeing the doc, I mean. I'm wondering about at-home comfort-type measures.

I never see my doctor; far too traumatic.

If I am very bad I ring a friend. If I can manage then I will listen to music, watch a film (especially well known musicals), do gardening; anything like that to distract me from the memories.

If they are too bad then I sometimes try writing down what happened; then I find myself reading it over and over again. I think I am trying to find a way to prevent it happening again, which is pointless because usually it is a random event or someone else's nastiness, and not in my control at all.

And I dissociate because I have DID. I do that a lot; nearly all the time. It is not a good thing to do, and not really helpful at all, but I have no other strategies to use; I gave up trying to interest the NHS in helping me. Instead it replicates the neglect and emotional abuse of my parents. As indeed did my former church.

Weirdly I think it must be me; I must make this happen.

So I stay home, watch films and when I am well I paint pictures.

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North East Quine

Curious beastie
# 13049

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Thank you for all replies.

quote:
Do undertakers receive any training on how to approach distraught customers? The choice he was giving you may have been good business practice, but was dreadful, both humanly speaking and as customer relations.
I can't imagine what training would make that a bearable question. He had to ask. We had to answer. IIRC he pointed out that once D was buried in the stillbirth section, that was it. We couldn't have him exhumed later and re-interred in a family plot. So perhaps it's something that happens. Perhaps parents change their minds, and it's something that has to be discussed.

quote:
Are you sure you don't have PTSD?
I don't think so. It seems very low down on the scale of traumas. Some of what other people have posted on this thread feels familiar, but I've had bereavement counselling and no-one has suggested PTSD.

The difficult thing is that life can be perfectly normal, then something relatively innocuous happens - husband drives over loose chippings and somehow damages the front brakes - and BAM! suddenly I'm struggling to cope.

Although - Thank God - it turns out that not coping was for the best today.

Posts: 6414 | From: North East Scotland | Registered: Oct 2007  |  IP: Logged
Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528

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NEQ, the trauma was the stillbirth (and subsequent horrific visit to undertaker). That's a pretty big trauma and certainly more than enough to trigger jitters and flashbacks, whether anyone calls it PTSD or not. Plus PTSD is probably a spectrum, at least to some extent. Not that it matters really, but I hope you're being gentle with yourself, because it's a real thingy and not the least bit out of proportion or odd. (Heck, if you only lost a day to the experience, you are doing very well indeed!)
Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004  |  IP: Logged
Huia
Shipmate
# 3473

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NEQ - FWIW, I think Lamb Chopped has it nailed. She's good at that [Overused]

Please treat yourself gently.

Huia

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Charity gives food from the table, Justice gives a place at the table.

Posts: 10382 | From: Te Wai Pounamu | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged
Heavenly Anarchist
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# 13313

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I agree, it would be quite understandable to still be emotionally affected by such a great loss and the thought of another similar triggered your reaction (though, given the circumstances, it turns out your reaction was quite rational and correct). Flashbacks would seem to indicate that the trauma is still affecting you, as it does in PTSD. Be kind to yourself, what you are experiencing is natural and your subsequent reaction is not unreasonable in any way. Your wanting to find a way forward from this is a positive step.
My own panics are not due to PTSD but due to my bipolar disorder. I use deep breathing exercises to help me manage anxiety (good for nausea and hyperventilating too) and a process of talking myself through a rationalisation of the situation (this is instinctive to me now though as it is how I usually manage my mania). I have regular yoga classes which have also helped improve my ability to cope with stress.

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'I love deadlines. I like the whooshing sound they make as they fly by.' Douglas Adams
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North East Quine

Curious beastie
# 13049

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You are all very kind. I really appreciate all your comments (even if I couldn't understand Mark - inlet manifold? - I appreciated that you cared and posted.) Thank you all.

I feel I should be coping better because:

a) it was fifteen years ago.

b) Stillbirth is very common. There have been dozens, maybe coming close to hundreds, more burials in the stillbirth section since we buried D and of course many stillborn babies are cremated or buried in family plots. So it's a very everyday trauma.

c) I have two healthy children. At one point at church there were four of us of comparable age who had had still born babies, and the other three had one living child each. So I know I've been lucky.

d) It was a choice to go to full term knowing that the likelihood was that D would be stillborn; I could have terminated the pregnancy at any point after the twenty week scan showed up the bone dysplasia. I was last offered a termination at 35 weeks pregnant, but I chose to go to term. I do still think that was the right choice for me. But for other women, who go into labour expecting a live baby - their trauma must be so much greater. Of course, a termination at 35 weeks, or even 28 weeks would have still meant labour and a funeral. But I had an element of choice most women don't have, and at no point after the 20 week scan did I think I was going to have a normal labour and "perfect" baby, and from 35 weeks on I knew that stillbirth was the "most likely" outcome.
Actually, (maternal boast alert!) I was rather proud that my boy managed to hang on in there till 40 weeks. The consultant said that in her experience it was "virtually unprecedented" for such an "adverse pregnancy" to go to full term, but he did it!

But having to discuss theoretical burial places for the older two - I didn't see that one coming.

Posts: 6414 | From: North East Scotland | Registered: Oct 2007  |  IP: Logged
Thyme
Shipmate
# 12360

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For various reasons I did a lot of reading etc around the grief process after a stillbirth, miscarriage, or loss of a newborn, and loss of a child generally.

I concluded that we never get over the loss and it is the hardest grief to bear. (I'm not suggesting we get over other losses, just that the loss of a child has a special quality).

Whether you call it grieving or a PTSD experience, perhaps it might help to consider it part of the normal grieving process.

Maybe you expect too much of yourself in thinking it was a long time ago, or other's circumstances are/were worse and you shouldn't feel like this.

Undertakers have to do what they have to do, and this aspect may have been the thing that your grief attached itself to in the longer term.

Your gried is valid and it is valid for it to continue to be expressed in this way.

I found a quote:

Dwight D. Eisenhower, American president
"There's no tragedy in life like the death of a child. Things never get back to the way they were."

Maybe the way forward is not to expect that these reactions should or will cease but to honour them as part of your loss, the trauma surrounding that and your continuing love for your son and find the best ways for you of coping with them when they do.

Much what Lamb Chopped said with different words.

Fifteen years ago not so much was known about the long term effects of loss of a child, especially the spiritual aspects.

My situation was very different but I did find a lot of prayer helps and if you want to know more about that side of things pm me.

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The Church in its own bubble has become, at best the guardian of the value system of the nation’s grandparents, and at worst a den of religious anoraks defined by defensiveness, esoteric logic and discrimination. Bishop of Buckingham's blog

Posts: 600 | From: Cloud Cuckoo Land | Registered: Feb 2007  |  IP: Logged
Moo

Ship's tough old bird
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quote:
Originally posted by North East Quine
Stillbirth is very common. There have been dozens, maybe coming close to hundreds, more burials in the stillbirth section since we buried D and of course many stillborn babies are cremated or buried in family plots. So it's a very everyday trauma.

The death of parents and spouses is also a very everyday trauma, but that doesn't make it less of a trauma.

I have the impression you think you shouldn't feel the way you do. There is no right or wrong involved. Your feelings are facts that should be accepted.

I sympathize deeply with what you are going through.

Moo

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Kerygmania host
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See you later, alligator.

Posts: 20365 | From: Alleghany Mountains of Virginia | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
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Everybody is right, and if you were here I'd make you soup or something. Most traumas are common, including child abuse, rape, and so forth. [Tear] And being blessed in so many ways (like having other children) is wonderful, but really has no impact on whether you're allowed to have normal traumatic reactions to a separate tragedy. (I lost my son's twin at six weeks in and we had to have emergency surgery--it's totally normal and okay for me to be having grief/PTSD reactions to that event, even though we were so wonderfully blessed to have LL survive.)

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Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!

Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004  |  IP: Logged


 
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