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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: mr cheesy
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Bibliophile
Shipmate
# 18418
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Posted
The hosts have prompted me to move this discussion here from another thread after the following exchange on the 'British Royal Family and Nazism' thread.
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Originally posted by Bibliophile:
quote:
Originally posted by mr cheesy:
Dull. Move on.
Thats hilarious. Eighty two years ago some members of the royal family, who have now passed away, encouraged their children to perform a fascist salute as a joke at a private family occasion. You are outraged and you don't want to 'move on'
I point out that you were making defences of communist dictatorships just the other day and you think its dull and want to 'move on'.
What had prompted mr cheesy to ask me to 'move on' was the fact that I had pointed out the hypocrisy of him complaining about what a terrible outrage it was that some members of the royal family might perform a fascist salute as a joke on a private home movie eighty two years ago whilst he himself had made a litany of excuses for communist dictatorships just the other day.
This is a list of some of what he said
quote:
The argument in Vietnam doesn't even work - the nasty Communists won and then built a relatively stable country.
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Also I'd say that there are plenty of examples of oppressive, corrupt regimes based on forms of capitalism. Communism is not really much worse that most other systems. If it is unholy, then surely everything else is too.
quote:
quote:
Originally posted by Kaplan Corday:
No, it's going to be non-existent, and will remain so until Vietnam's communist government disappears into the dustbin of history.
Funny, though, that Vietnam's economy is growing at a very rapid rate. Maybe the Vietnamese do not want to consign it to the dustbin of history, perhaps they think it has been very successful.
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Cuba is often suggested as being an example of socialist success.
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the evils of Vietnamese Communism predicted by the US politicians in the 1970s never happened.
Vietnam is not free and is not by any means a perfect society, but is far better than many other societies which were not Communist.
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Some like to pretend that Communist states are the worst thing that have ever happened - even when examples such as Vietnam and Cuba clearly are many times better than many many worse non-communist states.
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Vietnam and Cuba are not the world's worst states even though they're Communist. Not by a long chalk.
That isn't whitewashing, that is just a fact.
Now at I pointed out this kind of defence 'I know they're far from perfect but they have done some good things and they're not the worst governments in the world' was exactly what some said about the fascist governments of Germany and Italy in the 1930s. I suspect mr cheesy would angrily denounce anyone who had made such an argument at the time. However it would be exactly the same as the one he has made about communist dictatorships. Remember that when the royal photo was taken in 1933 the fascist governments in Germany and Italy had not, by that time, done anything worse than what the dictatorships of Fidel Castro and Ho Chi Minh did when they were in power.
I think mr cheesy is being very much guilty of hypocritical judgement in this case
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Arethosemyfeet
Shipmate
# 17047
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Posted
Oh look! A Godwin in the first post. You really are a cretin, aren't you?
Posts: 2933 | From: Hebrides | Registered: Apr 2012
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mr cheesy
Shipmate
# 3330
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Posted
You just carry on, tosspot. I don't need to defend myself from an argument that has holes you can drive a tank through.
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arse
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Gamaliel
Shipmate
# 812
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Posted
In context, arethosemyfeet, I think the 'Godwin' is understandable given the context of the Hell-call.
As for the levels of hypocrisy involved ... pot meet kettle. Bibliophile, meet mr cheesy. Mr cheesy, meet Bibliophile.
A plague on both their houses. Neither of them have an ounce of nuance. They both live in binary-ville.
Neither of them can pitch an argument with any more shades of subtlety than the stripes on a zebra crossing.
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Let us with a gladsome mind
Praise the Lord for He is kind.
http://philthebard.blogspot.com
Posts: 15997 | From: Cheshire, UK | Registered: Jul 2001
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mr cheesy
Shipmate
# 3330
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Posted
Fuck off and die, you overgrown banana. You know nothing about me, and in contrast to the reigning monarch of the United Kingdom I was not born into power and prestige. And frankly if you say one other thing about the bogus war record of the royal family - given what my relatives actually experienced during the war rather than their cotton-wool existence - I'm likely to reach through the screen and help you regurgitate your breakfast.
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arse
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Sandemaniac
Shipmate
# 12829
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Posted
[troll] Buckingham Palace hit by cotton wool bomb! Oh, and the then-King had been on board HMS Collingwood at Jutland. Just saying.[/troll]
AG
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"It becomes soon pleasantly apparent that change-ringing is by no means merely an excuse for beer" Charles Dickens gets it wrong, 1869
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
quote:
Gamaliel: A plague on both their houses. Neither of them have an ounce of nuance. They both live in binary-ville.
Neither of them can pitch an argument with any more shades of subtlety than the stripes on a zebra crossing.
Tbh, when it comes to Vietnam and Cuba, I find mr cheesy rather more nuanced than Bibliophile.
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
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Gamaliel
Shipmate
# 812
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Posted
To be honest, so do I - but it doesn't stop mr cheesy being such an insufferable Pharisaical holier-than-thou twat.
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Let us with a gladsome mind
Praise the Lord for He is kind.
http://philthebard.blogspot.com
Posts: 15997 | From: Cheshire, UK | Registered: Jul 2001
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mr cheesy
Shipmate
# 3330
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Posted
Yes, because you are the only measure of reasonableness, sitting on your constant fence wielding your Golden Mean as if having two extremes makes your view the only reasonable one.
No, actually.
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arse
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Bibliophile
Shipmate
# 18418
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by LeRoc:
quote:
Gamaliel: A plague on both their houses. Neither of them have an ounce of nuance. They both live in binary-ville.
Neither of them can pitch an argument with any more shades of subtlety than the stripes on a zebra crossing.
Tbh, when it comes to Vietnam and Cuba, I find mr cheesy rather more nuanced than Bibliophile.
Nuance is fine. As someone mentioned on another thread its true that Tito's Yugoslavia wasn't as bad as Hitler's Germany just as Salazar's Portugal wasn't as bad as the Soviet Union under Lenin and Stalin. Talking about nuances like that is fine.
What I am objecting to is that when talking about communist governments he goes beyond pointing out nuances and moves towards apologetics. For him then then start angrily ranting about anything with even the most tangential connection with fascism (e.g. an old home movie from 1933 of some people making a fascist salute as a joke) is quite hypocritical.
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Bibliophile
Shipmate
# 18418
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mr cheesy:
You just carry on, tosspot. I don't need to defend myself from an argument that has holes you can drive a tank through.
Tetchy, aren't you.
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mr cheesy
Shipmate
# 3330
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Bibliophile:
Nuance is fine. As someone mentioned on another thread its true that Tito's Yugoslavia wasn't as bad as Hitler's Germany just as Salazar's Portugal wasn't as bad as the Soviet Union under Lenin and Stalin. Talking about nuances like that is fine.
What I am objecting to is that when talking about communist governments he goes beyond pointing out nuances and moves towards apologetics. For him then then start angrily ranting about anything with even the most tangential connection with fascism (e.g. an old home movie from 1933 of some people making a fascist salute as a joke) is quite hypocritical.
See, not only do you not know that, I really don't give a toss what you think about anything given that you've proven yourself unable to think in any discussion you've ever been involved with here.
Go play with the traffic.
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arse
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Bibliophile
Shipmate
# 18418
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mr cheesy:
quote:
Originally posted by Bibliophile:
Nuance is fine. As someone mentioned on another thread its true that Tito's Yugoslavia wasn't as bad as Hitler's Germany just as Salazar's Portugal wasn't as bad as the Soviet Union under Lenin and Stalin. Talking about nuances like that is fine.
What I am objecting to is that when talking about communist governments he goes beyond pointing out nuances and moves towards apologetics. For him then then start angrily ranting about anything with even the most tangential connection with fascism (e.g. an old home movie from 1933 of some people making a fascist salute as a joke) is quite hypocritical.
See, not only do you not know that, I really don't give a toss what you think about anything given that you've proven yourself unable to think in any discussion you've ever been involved with here.
Go play with the traffic.
If you're indifferent to my thoughts it seems strange that you would bother replying to my post. It sounds to me that you are quite riled up with me pointing out flaws in your perspective.
[ 20. July 2015, 16:16: Message edited by: Bibliophile ]
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Bibliophile
Shipmate
# 18418
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Posted
On a little more serious note I would say that I have noticed on this 'Hell' board that although people here will criticise each other often with quite robust language it doesn't seem usual for that language to include violent imagery. mr cheesy has used such imagery twice so far in the thread "I'm likely to reach through the screen and help you regurgitate your breakfast" "Go play with the traffic". mr cheesy may like to distance himself from 'Stalinism' but part of what enables things like purges, show trials, ideological denunciations etc to happen is that the angry imaginations of people like mr cheesy are manipulated by political leaders into directing their hatred against the people the leaders want to attack.
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Gamaliel
Shipmate
# 812
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Posted
I hate to say this, Bibliophile, but I'd also noticed that. I will sometimes say unsavoury things here in Hell but I don't recollect ever threatening anyone with physical violence or wishing them death or physical harm.
Not that this makes me any less of a hypocrite than mr cheesy.
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Let us with a gladsome mind
Praise the Lord for He is kind.
http://philthebard.blogspot.com
Posts: 15997 | From: Cheshire, UK | Registered: Jul 2001
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mr cheesy
Shipmate
# 3330
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Posted
Don't worry, I don't actually have the ability to reach through computer screens. And I don't suppose you'd actually take advice to play with traffic.
I'm only doing it for effect.
And Gamiliel, you have a short memory. I remember many times being told to do unmentionable things with icepicks by departed members in the past.
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arse
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Bibliophile
Shipmate
# 18418
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mr cheesy:
Don't worry, I don't actually have the ability to reach through computer screens. And I don't suppose you'd actually take advice to play with traffic.
Well yes I get that. The point is that the imagery you use in your language will reflect what is in your imagination. The violence of totalitarian states, like the 'stalinist' ones you distance yourself from, is in part made by the manipulation of that kind of anger.
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Bibliophile
Shipmate
# 18418
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mr cheesy:
I see. Amateur psychologist as well. Impressive.
A degree in psychology isn't needed to recognise self righteous anger.
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mr cheesy
Shipmate
# 3330
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Posted
No, that's right, you can tell just by looking at words posted on a bulletin board.
I'm surprised anyone else can fit in a planet with someone who has a brain as big as yours.
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arse
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Oscar the Grouch
Adopted Cascadian
# 1916
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mr cheesy:
I'm only doing it for effect.
That seems to me to be a perfect epitaph for you. As far as I can see, everything you say is done purely for effect.
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Faradiu, dundeibáwa weyu lárigi weyu
Posts: 3871 | From: Gamma Quadrant, just to the left of Galifrey | Registered: Dec 2001
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Bibliophile
Shipmate
# 18418
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mr cheesy:
No, that's right, you can tell just by looking at words posted on a bulletin board.
I'm surprised anyone else can fit in a planet with someone who has a brain as big as yours.
LOL. I thought you were planning to ignore me.
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Gamaliel
Shipmate
# 812
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Posted
That wasn't me, I hope, mr cheesy. Trotsky was a genius but someone picked his brains, as the old sick joke went ...
Meanwhile, you have reassured me. I thought for a moment that you did have the threatened ability to reach through the glass of my PC screen and make me regurgitate my breakfast.
I can sleep soundly in my bed tonight knowing that you do not have such powers.
Mind you, not that they are necessary. If I wanted to regurgitate my breakfast all I'd need do is read the self-satisfied bilge you continue to post online ...
![[Projectile]](graemlins/puke2.gif)
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Let us with a gladsome mind
Praise the Lord for He is kind.
http://philthebard.blogspot.com
Posts: 15997 | From: Cheshire, UK | Registered: Jul 2001
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mr cheesy
Shipmate
# 3330
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Posted
On reflection, I think Erin's insult might have involved rusty farm implements. Apologies.
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arse
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
Where does the rule come from that we don't use violent metaphors in Hell? I've seen much worse than mr cheesy, in fact I may have done so myself.
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
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Alan Cresswell
Mad Scientist 先生
# 31
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Posted
I think that rule is a figment of Bibliophile's fervent imagination. So, nothing new there.
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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.
Posts: 32413 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001
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Bibliophile
Shipmate
# 18418
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by LeRoc:
Where does the rule come from that we don't use violent metaphors in Hell?
Well its clearly not a rule but my observation is that the use of such metaphors here is not the norm.
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
quote:
Bibliophile: Well its clearly not a rule but my observation is that the use of such metaphors here is not the norm.
You're clearly new here. I think it would do you good to read some old Hell threads, for more than one reason. There are plenty of good ones in Limbo.
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
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Karl: Liberal Backslider
Shipmate
# 76
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Bibliophile:
On a little more serious note I would say that I have noticed on this 'Hell' board that although people here will criticise each other often with quite robust language it doesn't seem usual for that language to include violent imagery. mr cheesy has used such imagery twice so far in the thread "I'm likely to reach through the screen and help you regurgitate your breakfast" "Go play with the traffic". mr cheesy may like to distance himself from 'Stalinism' but part of what enables things like purges, show trials, ideological denunciations etc to happen is that the angry imaginations of people like mr cheesy are manipulated by political leaders into directing their hatred against the people the leaders want to attack.
Oh what utter shite. "Go play in the traffic" is what fathers say to their children over here when they're fed up with their daft prattle. Everyone knows they don't mean it. File under "take a long walk of a short pier" and "take a walk along the beach until your cap floats".
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Might as well ask the bloody cat.
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
"I'll kill tha bastard" "Next person who (does x) is dead" are common enough as well.
I'd mark mr cheesy off for style points, but as far as intimating murderous intent, meh.
Buncha delicate flowers growing in Hell lately.
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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Bibliophile
Shipmate
# 18418
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider: Oh what utter shite. "Go play in the traffic" is what fathers say to their children over here when they're fed up with their daft prattle. Everyone knows they don't mean it. File under "take a long walk of a short pier" and "take a walk along the beach until your cap floats".
Well I didn't think he was being literal and I wasn't personally upset by it. My point was that the (imaginary) violence in the language, in the context of many other posts in which he has displayed self righteous anger, is rather telling.
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romanlion
editorial comment
# 10325
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
Buncha delicate flowers growing in Hell lately.
Place ain't what it used to be, that is for certain....
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"You can't get rich in politics unless you're a crook" - Harry S. Truman
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
Ah yes, the golden age.
Presumably the tint was caused by whatever they were burning in the fires of Hell back then. Sorry, we've had cutbacks. I'm afraid the fuel budget has suffered.
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RooK
1 of 6
# 1852
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Posted
I hope you all fall down a well and die.
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Huia
Shipmate
# 3473
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Posted
Nah, that would pollute good clean water.
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Charity gives food from the table, Justice gives a place at the table.
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
quote:
Bibliophile: My point was that the (imaginary) violence in the language, in the context of many other posts in which he has displayed self righteous anger, is rather telling.
It is more telling to me that you need to grasp at straws like this. You called mr cheesy to Hell, remember?
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
Posts: 9474 | From: Brazil / Africa | Registered: Aug 2002
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by RooK:
I hope you all fall down a well and die.
Drafter's query: is it sufficient if each individual falls down a different well, or do all of them need to fall down the same well? Also, do they all need to fall down at the same time?
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Alan Cresswell
Mad Scientist 先生
# 31
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by RooK:
I hope you all fall down a well and die.
quote:
Originally posted by Huia:
Nah, that would pollute good clean water.
Wouldn't even need to die to pollute the water.
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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.
Posts: 32413 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
quote:
Originally posted by RooK:
I hope you all fall down a well and die.
Drafter's query: is it sufficient if each individual falls down a different well, or do all of them need to fall down the same well? Also, do they all need to fall down at the same time?
Further question:Can it by a dry well? Really hate to polute.
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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Bibliophile
Shipmate
# 18418
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by LeRoc:
quote:
Bibliophile: My point was that the (imaginary) violence in the language, in the context of many other posts in which he has displayed self righteous anger, is rather telling.
It is more telling to me that you need to grasp at straws like this. You called mr cheesy to Hell, remember?
Indeed I did. I pointed out at length why he is being a hypocrite and he tellingly responded with self righteous anger. The violent metaphors are very much of a pattern with this self righteous and hypocritical rage that he has displayed in the other posts I talked about.
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Barnabas62
Shipmate
# 9110
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Posted
I think you should stop digging, Bibliophile. Cod psychology and would-be mindreading are pretty chancy operations in an anonymous cyberspace, where any wannabe can pretend to anything they might occasionally wannabe.
Particularly in Hell. Hell is for the pissed-off, and pissed-off people come out with all sorts of stuff that is about as revealing of their characters as that 1933 footage was.
I'm beginning to wish I'd saved some classic RooK and Erin eviscerations as examples. mr cheesy is a pussycat compared with some of the verbal destruction I've seen in these depths.
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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?
Posts: 21397 | From: Norfolk UK | Registered: Feb 2005
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Gamaliel
Shipmate
# 812
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Posted
So, you are neither a hypocrite nor self-righteous either, Bibliophile? That's news to me ...
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Let us with a gladsome mind
Praise the Lord for He is kind.
http://philthebard.blogspot.com
Posts: 15997 | From: Cheshire, UK | Registered: Jul 2001
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mr cheesy
Shipmate
# 3330
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Bibliophile:
Indeed I did. I pointed out at length why he is being a hypocrite and he tellingly responded with self righteous anger. The violent metaphors are very much of a pattern with this self righteous and hypocritical rage that he has displayed in the other posts I talked about.
Ah yes, napalming Vietnam was morally justifiable according to Mr Brainbox. Whereas obviously saying that Communism has some positive aspects is obviously morally bankrupt.
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arse
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mr cheesy
Shipmate
# 3330
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Posted
OK, yes, I'm prejudiced against people who a) exist in a protected bubble of aristocratic, unearned privilege b) who almost took us into the arms of the Nazis in the early 20 century c) who sit in stately homes and who we are told are morally upright whilst actually doing the most disgusting things in private. Guilty.
Unlike you, Gam, I actually think some things are worth getting off the fence about and feel that those with power are more morally capable than the ordinary man in the street. Particularly when the ordinary man in the street would be vilified if he did this stuff whilst the aristocracy constantly get some kind of pass from the lily-livered apologists who seem to have swallowed all their bullshit.
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arse
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