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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: New carol at King's
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Baptist Trainfan
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# 15128
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Posted
I'm listening to the carols from Cambridge on the radio. To be honest it hasn't excited me much ... until we got to this new carol. I'm not too sure if it's a carol, really: more of a mini-oratorio. The words are amazing - although I suspect that some folk will object to the dragging of such reality into the service.
What did others think about it? (I'm not asking whether you "liked" the musical idiom, that's a matter of personal taste).
[ 24. December 2015, 15:17: Message edited by: Baptist Trainfan ]
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David Goode
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# 9224
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Posted
I'm not listening to the programme, but I followed your link and looked at the words. Far too angst-ridden for my taste.
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Og, King of Bashan
Ship's giant Amorite
# 9562
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Posted
I didn't get to give it a good listen, as I was busy chasing a toddler from one room to the next.
I think that the Church has a particular duty at this time of year to remember that, in one Gospel account, the Holy Family were political refugees. I also think that we need to think about and help, when possible, refugees, especially families and children.
At the same time, I sometimes worry that artists going out of their way to make a specific point risk beating the listener / viewer / reader over the head to the degree that the message is lost.
To the extent that that it makes people think about the fact that political violence is a constant human theme, and even (or especially) if it makes people uncomfortable, I like it, with the caveat that you avoid writing the church music version of "Do they know it's Christmas time at all."
[ 24. December 2015, 16:17: Message edited by: Og, King of Bashan ]
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"I like to eat crawfish and drink beer. That's despair?" ― Walker Percy
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Chamois
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# 16204
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Posted
I listened to the service but couldn't actually distinguish the words of this carol through its "busy" musical setting. So unless listeners had the text in front of them I don't think it would have had any impact whatsoever.
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The steadfast love of the Lord never ceases
Posts: 978 | From: Hill of roses | Registered: Feb 2011
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Schroedinger's cat
Ship's cool cat
# 64
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Posted
The lyrics are good - the idea of "rest at Bethlehem" is an interesting idea, the acceptance that the "Little town of Bethlehem" is in the middle of a war zone is something we need to remember.
I didn't hear the performance so cannot comment on that. But the idea of having good, relevant and honest carols is a good idea. So many of the traditional ones are twee and wrong. We should lose so many of them, so having new and more appropriate ones is a good idea.
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Lord may all my hard times be healing times
take out this broken heart and renew my mind.
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Chamois
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# 16204
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Posted
Originally posted by Schroedinger's Cat:
quote:
But the idea of having good, relevant and honest carols is a good idea.
Yes I agree. But this particular one needs much more accessible music if it's going to catch on as a carol. You would need a highly trained choir to attempt it in its present form, it's certainly not suitable for amateur singers. And the audience would need sur-titles or a crib-sheet in order to appreciate the words.
Don't you think carols should by definition be singable?
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The steadfast love of the Lord never ceases
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L'organist
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# 17338
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Posted
Its been done before - and IMHO better - by Malcolm Williamson to words by Mary Wilson. Called This Christmas Night it links traditional Christmas imagery with everyday concerns: quote:
How sweet and clear above the sounds of war
The clamorous bells are pealing their delight!
The angels sing of glory, as they soar
Among the man-made stars, this Christmas night.
And, once again, with spices and with gold,
Three Kings are riding through the sparkling snow
To this poor lodging in the bitter cold
Where Mary kneels within the lantern glow
To watch her Baby lying in the hay,
And think about the wonder of His birth:
And as he sleeps, to fold her hands
And pray For peace to come upon this troubled earth.
There's a dreadful rendition on YouTube but if you can find it there's a much better version by the choir of Worcester College, Oxford.
[ 24. December 2015, 18:12: Message edited by: L'organist ]
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Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet
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Baptist Trainfan
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# 15128
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Chamois:
I listened to the service but couldn't actually distinguish the words of this carol through its "busy" musical setting. So unless listeners had the text in front of them I don't think it would have had any impact whatsoever.
Sadly true.
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Japes
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# 5358
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Posted
Thank you for the warning I needed the words in front of me whilst listening as I'm glad to have read them.
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David Goode
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# 9224
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Chamois:
And the audience would need sur-titles or a crib-sheet...
Very good!
Posts: 654 | From: Cambridge | Registered: Mar 2005
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Schroedinger's cat
Ship's cool cat
# 64
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Chamois:
Originally posted by Schroedinger's Cat:
quote:
But the idea of having good, relevant and honest carols is a good idea.
Yes I agree. But this particular one needs much more accessible music if it's going to catch on as a carol. You would need a highly trained choir to attempt it in its present form, it's certainly not suitable for amateur singers. And the audience would need sur-titles or a crib-sheet in order to appreciate the words.
Don't you think carols should by definition be singable?
Yes they should be singable (as I said, I didn't hear it). If it is difficult to sing, it will not catch on, however good the words are.
There is a problem that carols (especially) become popular due to the catchiness of the tunes, not the depth of the theological insights. So it needs to have a singable and memorable tune, so that people can sing it having not heard it before, or since last year.
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Blog
Music for your enjoyment
Lord may all my hard times be healing times
take out this broken heart and renew my mind.
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ExclamationMark
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# 14715
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Posted
Good words, provided (as others' have said) you have them in front of you. I couldn't make them out through the tune.
On the whole, the singing was disappointing and rather screechy. I expected rather more given the stated focus on Willcocks' settings.
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jacobsen
seeker
# 14998
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Posted
According to the composer's blog, the words of the carol were printed in the congregation's service sheet.
IMO there are two kinds of carol; one is the easily accessible all join in variety, ad the other is a composed setting for a fairly skilled choir, as indeed the King's College Choir is.
So the congregation could read the words, but I would agree that the carol itself is unlikely to catch on with your average church choir, or the congregation.
But the poem is excellent.
[ 25. December 2015, 17:03: Message edited by: jacobsen ]
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But God, holding a candle, looks for all who wander, all who search. - Shifra Alon
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The man who made time, made plenty.
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Gee D
Shipmate
# 13815
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Posted
Neither of us could make out the words at all. Given the quality of the choir, I'd attribute this to the setting rather than the singing. That's not good. We did not find the setting very attractive and it has none of the joy of Christmas. No problem with the poem, but for a Christmas carol, the message it contains should be brought into the Christmas message rather better than has been done. Like others posting, I can't see this one taking off.
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Mudfrog
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# 8116
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Posted
Nope Does nothing whatever for me. The words are not particularly Christian or anything to do with Christmas, except for the almost incidental use of the word Bethlehem. What the words have to do with the birth of Christ I have no idea.
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G.K. Chesterton
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Leorning Cniht
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# 17564
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
There is a problem that carols (especially) become popular due to the catchiness of the tunes, not the depth of the theological insights.
This isn't a carol, and it contains no theological insights. I didn't listen to it, so I can't comment on the musical setting. As a poem, it's OK - it may not be terribly profound, but a plea to our common brotherhood doesn't necessarily need profundity.
I agree with Mudfrog - there's nothing especially Christian here. Concern for the plight of refugees is laudable, of course, but apart from name-checking Bethlehem, there's nothing in this song that couldn't happily be sung by anyone with any kind of new-age pantheistic beliefs.
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Ricardus
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# 8757
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Posted
It's a bit stream-of-consciousness, but I don't think it's just name-checking Bethlehem - I interpret "this child is our light" as saying Jesus' birth gives hope to refugee children, presumably (although it's not stated) because the Holy Family were themselves refugees.
The stream-of-consciousness effect isn't entirely to my taste, but I think if the message was more explicit it would also be less thought-provoking. It is deceptively well constructed in that each line has a distinct idea and each word has a distinct purpose (something which is hard to appreciate unless you have been exposed to a lot of crap song lyrics).
(Something seems to have gone wrong with the scansion in the first verse but maybe it makes sense within the musical setting.)
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Then the dog ran before, and coming as if he had brought the news, shewed his joy by his fawning and wagging his tail. -- Tobit 11:9 (Douai-Rheims)
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Pearl B4 Swine
Ship's Oyster-Shucker
# 11451
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Posted
I can't see this one appearing on anyone's music list for next Advent, no matter how good your choir is. Maybe as an anthem, in connection with social and political horror, but certainly not on a Carol sing. Remember they used to be dance tunes. And the poems stretched very thin to relate to some fact given us in Matthew and Luke. A dividing line should be there, between Carol Services and Choir Concerts IMO. Just mentioning the word "angel" or "king" or 'donkey" doesn't automatically make it a "Christmas Carol".
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"I do a good job and I know how to do this stuff" D. Trump (speaking of the POTUS job)
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Ricardus
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# 8757
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Posted
Well, the Nine Lessons and Carols service generally does make a distinction between carols for the congregation to sing (e.g. "Hark the Herald", "O Come All Ye Faithful") and carols/anthems for the choir to sing (e.g. "Bethlehem Down", "Gabriel's Message").
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Then the dog ran before, and coming as if he had brought the news, shewed his joy by his fawning and wagging his tail. -- Tobit 11:9 (Douai-Rheims)
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