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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Moral Priorities
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PilgrimVagrant
Shipmate
# 18442
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Posted
I rather like the idea of the whole world working away, voluntarily, at those wrongs which seem to each individual most urgent. I like the democratic, freedom in service, liberal agenda of it. We each choose the wrongs most important to us, that make of the world a sub-optimal place, and strive to right them. I am sure, left to our own devices, we would eventually right the all the world's wrongs, and make the Earth a place fit for Jesus to return to, in His glory, and have no necessary work to do. And I think He deserves that holiday.
And now I'm going to spoil that cosy vision. Some things just are more morally important than others. I'm all for donkey sanctuaries, free and sterile needles for addicts, the end of veal crates worldwide, litter-picking expeditions, etc. But I really think that the top of the agenda ought to be working out some way to end global, fatal, spirit-eroding poverty while simultaneously remaining comfortably within the global ecological carrying capacity. Without the jargon, a fair deployment of the world's wealth, without messing up the world we depend on to create that wealth.
So, how do we decide moral priorities, communally, while keeping the keen motivation of a completely voluntary contribution, but coordinating the efforts of all those volunteers to achieve maximum effectiveness?
Cheers, PV.
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Omnes Qui Errant Non Pereunt
Not all who wander are lost
Posts: 210 | From: In Contemplation | Registered: Jul 2015
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quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740
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Posted
I'm not sure that we do work out moral exigencies communally, nor that we should. It seems to me that individuals respond, well, individually, to different aspects of the world. I have a friend who is concerned with preserving rare plants, I certainly don't want to go to her and tell her that she should be doing something else.
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I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.
Posts: 9878 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2011
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PilgrimVagrant
Shipmate
# 18442
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Posted
I applaud your friend. And I don't want to denigrate anyone whose life and vocation leads them to tackle this issue or that.
But should we really say that all moral issues are equivalently important, or (as some might have it, compared to getting rich) equivalently unimportant?
Cheers, PV.
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Omnes Qui Errant Non Pereunt
Not all who wander are lost
Posts: 210 | From: In Contemplation | Registered: Jul 2015
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Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528
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Posted
Do recall that it's no use sending a hammer to do a screwdriver's job.
You wouldn't want me working political campaigns, or dealing with economics. Seriously. Unless you wanted a world even more fucked up than usual.
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Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!
Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004
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Honest Ron Bacardi
Shipmate
# 38
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Posted
PV wrote: quote:
...We each choose the wrongs most important to us, that make of the world a sub-optimal place, and strive to right them. I am sure, left to our own devices, we would eventually right the all the world's wrongs,...
You think so? Isn't this assuming that everyone is going to agree with you on what those wrongs are, let alone which are the most important.
I think you'll be waiting a long time for that. Some may genuinely disagree with you on whether something is wrong at all, and of course vice versa.
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Anglo-Cthulhic
Posts: 4857 | From: the corridors of Pah! | Registered: May 2001
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PilgrimVagrant
Shipmate
# 18442
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Posted
No, I don't think I do assume that. People may very well be working on moral issues I think scarcely worth bothering about. Like chastity before marriage. I am quite happy to admit that I may be wrong in considering this a trifling matter.
But even if it isn't, I think we can prioritise between this, and the fate of the world entire.
Best wishes, PV.
[ 21. September 2015, 17:02: Message edited by: PilgrimVagrant ]
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Omnes Qui Errant Non Pereunt
Not all who wander are lost
Posts: 210 | From: In Contemplation | Registered: Jul 2015
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Enoch
Shipmate
# 14322
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Posted
As so often, I rather agree with Lamb Chopped. Also, when there are many great evils in the world, there's something to be said for trying to do something about one that you can do something about, even if it's a small one, than deploring the iniquity of the big ones like world poverty or the Syrian Civil War that are a bit out of one's reach to do anything about.
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Brexit wrexit - Sir Graham Watson
Posts: 7610 | From: Bristol UK(was European Green Capital 2015, now Ljubljana) | Registered: Nov 2008
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PilgrimVagrant
Shipmate
# 18442
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Enoch:
As so often, I rather agree with Lamb Chopped. Also, when there are many great evils in the world, there's something to be said for trying to do something about one that you can do something about, even if it's a small one, than deploring the iniquity of the big ones like world poverty or the Syrian Civil War that are a bit out of one's reach to do anything about.
Generally, I would agree with you. I just worry that while we are busy tackling trifling issues that bug us a little, we may be missing out on big, important features of our moral universe that, left unaddressed, could end the world as we know it.
We might ask politicians to do this prioritising, coordinating global leadership role for us. But they are concerned with party advantage and parochial, national interest. Or we could ask the churches, synagogues, temples and mosques to provide that moral leadership. But their role is institutional continuation, rather than saving the world.
Or we could do it ourselves, in democratic debates like this, and consign authority to its proper role, which is enabling good things to happen, rather than squabbling about social policy or who gets to sleep with who.
Cheers, PV.
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Omnes Qui Errant Non Pereunt
Not all who wander are lost
Posts: 210 | From: In Contemplation | Registered: Jul 2015
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Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061
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Posted
Surely we have to work within our own callings. It is idle to ask me to overthrow empires and end evil; for one thing my eyesight is not good and you do not want me to use a firearm.
My calling is the long-range covering fire for the imagination. Because before people can do something, they have to imagine it. If you want me to conjure up a world in which the moral and spiritual ramification of sexbots or immigration are explored (cheaply! easily! without any commitment of major resources!) then I can do that for you.
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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page
Posts: 6378 | From: Washington DC | Registered: Mar 2014
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Enoch
Shipmate
# 14322
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by PilgrimVagrant:
... Or we could do it ourselves, in democratic debates like this, and consign authority to its proper role, which is enabling good things to happen, rather than squabbling about social policy or who gets to sleep with who.
I have no hesitation in admitting that I have much greater respect for those that are actually doing something themselves, even if only at a local level, than for those that think it is enough to campaign to get somebody else to do something.
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Brexit wrexit - Sir Graham Watson
Posts: 7610 | From: Bristol UK(was European Green Capital 2015, now Ljubljana) | Registered: Nov 2008
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Leorning Cniht
Shipmate
# 17564
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by PilgrimVagrant:
But should we really say that all moral issues are equivalently important, or (as some might have it, compared to getting rich) equivalently unimportant?
Who is saying that?
If I go and volunteer for cause X, I'm not saying that X is more morally important than any other cause - I'm saying that here is something that I can do.
If we're talking about monetary donations, then obviously there's more scope for that kind of analysis - I can send money anywhere with equal ease, whereas it makes sense for me to volunteer to do things that I'm good at rather than things I'm bad at, and it makes sense for me to volunteer where I am, rather than where I am not.
Posts: 5026 | From: USA | Registered: Feb 2013
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Twilight
Puddleglum's sister
# 2832
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Posted
I hear you, Pilgrim!
With all due respect for each other's views, this difference is noted in my house daily. My son receives begging letters from such places as "Farm Sanctuary," which I hand to him saying, "Your chickens want more money!"
Yesterday he was sitting behind me while I computerized and read a passage of his book aloud. It was all about the need for a global push to limit families to two children through government incentives and readily available, free birth control and sterilization. I said, "That sounds like me!" He said, "I know, Mom. It was written in 1969."
I still think my way would have a nice trickle down effect that will benefit everyone in the long run. Even chickens.
Posts: 6817 | Registered: May 2002
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
It is much easier to reach out on-to-one than it is is to have a revolution.
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Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
\_(ツ)_/
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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Enoch
Shipmate
# 14322
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:
It is much easier to reach out on-to-one than it is is to have a revolution.
Was anyone advocating a revolution? Revolutions do not actually have a very good record for righting wrongs and improving the lives of the world's citizens or any subset of them - apart perhaps from the particular clique that happens to come out on top.
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Brexit wrexit - Sir Graham Watson
Posts: 7610 | From: Bristol UK(was European Green Capital 2015, now Ljubljana) | Registered: Nov 2008
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
It was a reflection on the OP, and my existential woe about the seeming polarity between drop-in-the-bucket individual action and the catastrophic hopefulness-cum-hopelessness of change en masse.
While there may be a time to light the compost on fire, mostly we drip the perfume on the manure one drop from the bucket at a time.
[tangent]
Internally, I am reflecting on the reports from one of my children who has this past week been from Serbia to Vienna to Budapest telling me about advocating here for the group and there for the individual, and around and around again, now in yet another country which I won't name just now.
[/tangent]
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Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
\_(ツ)_/
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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