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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Going all in
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Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528
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Posted
I've no idea. But it's interesting that Jesus doesn't seem particularly bothered by her prospects. I can only assume (as Captain Obvious) that he knows more about it than I do, and apparently the outcome is good.
[ 02. November 2015, 18:44: Message edited by: Lamb Chopped ]
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Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!
Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004
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mr cheesy
Shipmate
# 3330
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Posted
It seems to me that this is one of those occasions where the popular teaching is at odds with what the text actually says.
Rather than the widow being an example to emulate, ISTM that in fact the widow in 12:44 is an example of the exploitation described in 12:38-40, reflecting prophetic OT teaching in Psalm 68:5, Isaiah 1:17, Zech 7:10 and elsewhere.
The gospels depict the Lord to be alive to the exploitation of the widow, including as examples in parables, such as Luke 18:3
The epistle tradition also seems to include the idea that a major function of the early church was helping and protecting the widow; 1 Tim 5, Acts 6:1
So, of course this is conjecture, but I think the clear teaching of the gospels and tradition of the church is in protecting the widow from those who exploit. And the Lord is here clearly decrying the thieving teachers of the law.. so I think the natural conclusion is that someone gave the woman some food and/or money to live on and gave the teachers of the law in the temple The Look ![[Disappointed]](graemlins/disappointed.gif)
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arse
Posts: 10697 | Registered: Sep 2002
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Adam.
Like as the
# 4991
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mr cheesy:
Rather than the widow being an example to emulate, ISTM that in fact the widow in 12:44 is an example of the exploitation described in 12:38-40, reflecting prophetic OT teaching in Psalm 68:5, Isaiah 1:17, Zech 7:10 and elsewhere.
Exactly. This text, as presented in the lectionary, is an occasion for self-examination and conviction: how does our self-aggrandizement force others to give up their livelihoods? The good news is that Jesus, who actually merits the place of honor, chooses to take his place among the little ones, and give all he has.
I like to think of this widow as being an encouragement to him as he continues on his way to death in Jerusalem.
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Ave Crux, Spes Unica!
Preaching blog
Posts: 8164 | From: Notre Dame, IN | Registered: Sep 2003
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
This commentary suggests that after having given all she had, the widow would rely on the Temple institution to provide for her.
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
Posts: 9474 | From: Brazil / Africa | Registered: Aug 2002
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
I've just read a couple of commentaries, and I came across the following reasons why the widow put this penny in the offering box:- She gave voluntarily, out of faith. We should do the same thing. (I guess this is a good sermon for when the congregation members need to make their financial pledges for the next ecclesiastic year.)
- She gave out of despair. Maybe by giving the last she had, the Temple would provide for her needs. When we're in despair, we can give everything up to Jesus too.
- After the Scribe had put money in the box, she was obliged to do the same. This is an example of how exploitative the Temple system was. We should look for and denounce exploitation in our own systems.
Maybe we should place bets on which approach we'll be hearing coming Sunday? ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
Posts: 9474 | From: Brazil / Africa | Registered: Aug 2002
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
Sorry for the triple post, but I just realised something. Is Jesus in (or near) the Temple again, the day after he flashed His whip and overturned the tables? I bet some of the money changers cast a leery eye in His direction!
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
Posts: 9474 | From: Brazil / Africa | Registered: Aug 2002
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Mamacita
Lakefront liberal
# 3659
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Posted
This is all very interesting and helpful. I wish I could figure out how to teach it in Children's Chapel without turning it into a Kiddie Stewardship talk.
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Do not be daunted by the enormity of the world’s grief. Do justly, now. Love mercy, now. Walk humbly, now. You are not obligated to complete the work, but neither are you free to abandon it.
Posts: 20761 | From: where the purple line ends | Registered: Dec 2002
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
Depending on the age of the children, maybe something like: everyone is looking at the Scribe with his flashy clothes, no-one notices the widow except Jesus. Are there people today who we don't notice?
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
Posts: 9474 | From: Brazil / Africa | Registered: Aug 2002
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rolyn
Shipmate
# 16840
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Posted
Jesus probably wanted to demonstrate that special generosity often occurring in people of limited means. The better off people become the more guarded they get about how and where they dedicate generous giving, if at all.
It's impossible to know what became of the widow after she'd given everything she had, other than that she surely passed through the eye of the needle that many of us cannot.
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Change is the only certainty of existence
Posts: 3206 | From: U.K. | Registered: Dec 2011
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W Hyatt
Shipmate
# 14250
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Posted
ISTM that one way to read the passage, without taking away from the other points about exploitation, is that Jesus is pointing out that God judges the heart where we tend to judge the apparent result. The part we should emulate is that her heart is in her deeds, as much as that she gave generously.
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A new church and a new earth, with Spiritual Insights for Everyday Life.
Posts: 1565 | From: U.S.A. | Registered: Nov 2008
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pimple
Ship's Irruption
# 10635
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by rolyn:
Jesus probably wanted to demonstrate that special generosity often occurring in people of limited means. The better off people become the more guarded they get about how and where they dedicate generous giving, if at all.
It's impossible to know what became of the widow after she'd given everything she had, other than that she surely passed through the eye of the needle that many of us cannot.
After stopping to rebandage the victim looked after by the good Samaritan and warming his soup.
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In other words, just because I made it all up, doesn't mean it isn't true (Reginald Hill)
Posts: 8018 | From: Wonderland | Registered: Nov 2005
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rolyn
Shipmate
# 16840
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Posted
Quite so.
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Change is the only certainty of existence
Posts: 3206 | From: U.K. | Registered: Dec 2011
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
Thought just popped in my head:
What if she was Mary?
Granted, the timing might not work out, depending on how old "old" was then. But something to play with.
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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Anselm
Shipmate
# 4499
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Posted
Maybe an 117 year old Anna!
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carpe diem domini
...seize the day to play dominoes?
Posts: 2544 | From: The Scriptorium | Registered: May 2003
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Tukai
Shipmate
# 12960
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by rolyn:
Jesus probably wanted to demonstrate that special generosity often occurring in people of limited means. The better off people become the more guarded they get about how and where they dedicate generous giving, if at all.
It's impossible to know what became of the widow after she'd given everything she had, other than that she surely passed through the eye of the needle that many of us cannot.
From my experience when I was a [volunteer] door-to-door collector for the Salvation Army, almost everyone in the poorer districts of town gave something [usually a gold coin] , as soon as I said "I'm collecting for the S.A." , or even as soon as they saw my ID badge. Often they said something like " I know X who the SA has helped". But many of the richer doors stayed resolutely shut even when it was obvious that there were people inside.
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A government that panders to the worst instincts of its people degrades the whole country for years to come.
Posts: 594 | From: Oz | Registered: Sep 2007
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Belle Ringer
Shipmate
# 13379
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Tukai:
quote:
Originally posted by rolyn:
Jesus probably wanted to demonstrate that special generosity often occurring in people of limited means. The better off people become the more guarded they get about how and where they dedicate generous giving, if at all.
It's impossible to know what became of the widow after she'd given everything she had, other than that she surely passed through the eye of the needle that many of us cannot.
From my experience when I was a [volunteer] door-to-door collector for the Salvation Army, almost everyone in the poorer districts of town gave something...Often they said something like " I know X who the SA has helped". But many of the richer doors stayed resolutely shut even when it was obvious that there were people inside.
My experience is that the lower rungs of the working poor are very generous with each other. If someone needs a shirt they are given one; if someone loses a job, bags of groceries appear on their doorstep weekly. They identify with the need.
Also, they save little or nothing for the future. Partly, they live in the midst of endless concrete needs now. But also, their lifestyle expectations mean they don't need major savings. Retirement income will be social security, only. Old age assisted living will be provided by the kids taking Mom into their home.
Meanwhile, the middle class I know see themselves as needing an impossibly huge amount of savings. They need a huge amount for retirement because they don't know how to live on the little soc sec pays, they need to save a huge amount for the kids' education so the kids can get a good job, and they need a huge amount to pay for the amazingly expensive assisted living place -- their kids live in a small condo in Manhattan with no space for grandma.
Very different sets of needs translates to very different giving patterns.
Also, the poor give and receive help among each other, while the rich have to buy help.
What happened to the widow? One person left bags of groceries on her doorstep, another checked on her daily to make sure she was OK, another came over and fixed the leak in her roof, free. Giving the coin given didn't mean she wouldn't eat.
But if she had been rich and then lost everything, probably neither rich nor poor helped her.
Posts: 5830 | From: Texas | Registered: Jan 2008
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Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528
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Posted
A slightly different view--
We've got loads of poor elderly people who are in fact very needy, often because they've been cut off by their kids (not judging this one, it may be justified in some cases). Nevertheless these people don't have the kind of support you mention, Belle Ringer, though they are definitely Social Security only (if they are fortunate enough to have that). Their friends are all as elderly and poor as they are, and so they depend on the care center and the churches for basic needs.
These people are Vietnamese immigrants, so what makes the difference in their experience is possibly that they haven't lived lifelong in their current neighborhoods. The networks they possess are composed almost wholly of people in their precise bind, who are therefore not able to help out much.
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Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!
Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004
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