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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Steam Locomotive Restoration
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Sober Preacher's Kid
Presbymethegationalist
# 12699
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Posted
This thread is probably doomed, but I'll give it a kick anyway.
There has been enormous news on the steam preservation front in North America. Two Class I (mainline) railroads decided to return the two finest examples of North American steam locomotives to operating condition.
First, the Union Pacific repurchased 4-8-8-4 Big Boy #4014 with the intention running her. While of course debateable (see Chesapeake & Ohio's 2-6-6-6 Alleghanys or the Northern Pacific 2-8-8-4 Yellowstones), the Big Boys are considered the ultimate development of articulated design for freight service.
On the other side the Mississippi, Norfolk Southern is funding the return to steam of J-class 4-8-4 #611, which may be considered the ultimate steam passenger locomotive design in North America. 611 is recorded as running perfectly at 80 mph after her 1956 wreck on one cylinder, with the other driver and rod disabled. She is that well-balanced.
Those from across the pond will of course swamp this thread, but the restoration to main-line operation of two of the best designs ever built, and but their respective original owners to boot, is nothing short of miraculous.
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NDP Federal Convention Ottawa 2018: A random assortment of Prots and Trots.
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Sober Preacher's Kid
Presbymethegationalist
# 12699
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Posted
Sorry, meant to put this in Heaven. Could a friendly host please move it?
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NDP Federal Convention Ottawa 2018: A random assortment of Prots and Trots.
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Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128
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Posted
The J-Class were amazing. Pity none of the NYC Niagaras survived.
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Moo
Ship's tough old bird
# 107
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Posted
The 611 is now in the Museum of Transportation in Roanoke, Virginia. It will be used for passenger excursions.
ETA: It not only ran out of Roanoke. It was built in Roanoke.
Moo
[ 13. December 2015, 22:24: Message edited by: Moo ]
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Kerygmania host
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Posts: 20365 | From: Alleghany Mountains of Virginia | Registered: May 2001
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Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061
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Posted
Earlier this year I went to Frederick, MD and rode the coal-fired steam train. It runs on a short course, perhaps 6 miles and back again.
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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page
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Gee D
Shipmate
# 13815
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Posted
The Big Boys and J class were both outstanding designs, miles ahead of what others in other countries were offering at the time.
Restoration news in NSW has been good, with the Lachlan Valley Railway being able to maintain a decent programme - despite the closure of most lines in that valley. Their stock is well maintained and permission to run on public lines throughout the State has not been a problem. The really good news is that the restoration of 6029 - a 4-8-4 + 4-8-4 Garratt - has been completed and it also runs regular services.
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Not every Anglican in Sydney is Sydney Anglican
Posts: 7028 | From: Warrawee NSW Australia | Registered: Jun 2008
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Lothlorien
Ship's Grandma
# 4927
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Posted
Gee D, my brother may have passed on the links. I can't find my link but if you search on youtube garratt 6029, you will find a series of very well filmed videos of the Restored 6029 and runs from Canberra toGoulbutn and similar. There are quite a few in the links down the righthand side of page, all with that engine.
Mum grew up opposite the yards in Lithgow and all her life could identify the engine class by sound alone as it steamed past at Lawson. Sometimes the actual specific engine in the class, not just 3801.
[ 14. December 2015, 01:51: Message edited by: Lothlorien ]
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Stercus Tauri
Shipmate
# 16668
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Sober Preacher's Kid:
Sorry, meant to put this in Heaven. Could a friendly host please move it?
Anyone following the story of the the preservation and restoration of Sir Nigel Gresley's Flying Scotsman would probably think that Purgatory was not a bad call, however heavenly the outcome may soon be. But it was always a lovely locomotive and will be again quite soon. I hope I'll still be around and on this side of the ocean when UPRR's Big Boy is back in steam - I'd love to see it. But really, I like them a bit smaller. The Duke of Sutherland's Dunrobin will soon be running again at Beamish and will be at the very top of my list of engines to see, closely followed by the NGG16 Garratts in Wales, now I've seen some of them in Africa.
At some point we might have a profound and scholarly discussion on the evident connection between steam locomotives and hymns. Whenever I sing, "This is the day that the Lord has made" the strong rhythm and the restrained melody bring me a vision of a railway scene in the highlands, perhaps the Pass of Druimuachdar on a summer day...
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Thay haif said. Quhat say thay, Lat thame say (George Keith, 5th Earl Marischal)
Posts: 905 | From: On the traditional lands of the Six Nations. | Registered: Sep 2011
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Barnabas Aus
Shipmate
# 15869
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Posted
Stercus, Cecil J. Allen commented many years ago on the link between church music, church musicians and railway enthusiasm.
To GeeD and Lothlorien, news out this last weekend that 6029 has finally been granted permission to run within Sydney Trains territory and will be based out of Sydney on May and June next, with suburban runs and excursions to Gosford and Lithgow planned.
Posts: 375 | From: Hunter Valley NSW | Registered: Sep 2010
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Gee D
Shipmate
# 13815
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Posted
Thanks Barnabas - we shall probably hear it going up the grade from Epping through Pennant Hills to Hornsby. The restoration has been a labour of love for a group of dedicated volunteers for many years.
It would make a great trip to Virginia to see the J class in action, perhaps pulling a train of streamilned coaches again, rather than a standing exhibit. It was a very advanced loco indeed, and the BR standard class locos were just no match for it in either performance or ease of maintenance. The same for the restored Big Boy climbing Sherman Hill with a full load of freight behind it.
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Not every Anglican in Sydney is Sydney Anglican
Posts: 7028 | From: Warrawee NSW Australia | Registered: Jun 2008
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betjemaniac
Shipmate
# 17618
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gee D:
It was a very advanced loco indeed, and the BR standard class locos were just no match for it in either performance or ease of maintenance.
Over on another forum I'm a member of there is a periodic debate about whether there was any point to the BR standards, or should BR just have built more of the designs it already had and thought worked? I know they did this as well, but should it have been instead?
Given the strictures though of the post-war economy, I think the standards were remarkably good. The only one that people really thought didn't hit the mark was the Standard Class 6, but arguably if they'd built more than 10 of them they'd have had critical mass to iron out the problems. I hope the Hengist group eventually finish building their new one so we can see what they were really capable of.
I'm a member of the group building the new Standard Class 3 tank, which is essentially the mongrel offspring of an LMS tank and a Large Prairie. It will be good to see that finished.
But really you can't beat the Talyllyn.
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Posts: 1481 | From: behind the dreaming spires | Registered: Mar 2013
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Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by betjemaniac:
But really you can't beat the Talyllyn.
The folk at Boston Lodge might have something to say about that ...
Of course, one of the reasons that the late-model N&W steam locos were so successful was their advanced maintenance regime with "lubritoriums". I don't think any other railway/road ever did anything similar.
Posts: 9750 | From: The other side of the Severn | Registered: Sep 2009
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Jane R
Shipmate
# 331
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Posted
Stercus Tauri: quote:
At some point we might have a profound and scholarly discussion on the evident connection between steam locomotives and hymns. Whenever I sing, "This is the day that the Lord has made" the strong rhythm and the restrained melody bring me a vision of a railway scene in the highlands, perhaps the Pass of Druimuachdar on a summer day...
Oh, we can find more direct connections than that.
To take one example: my Other Half (whose train set is currently all over the living room floor as part of the Christmas decorations) sang one of his favourite hymns a couple of weeks ago: "Lo, he comes with clouds descending."
Nobody else in the choir could understand why we were singing "Thousand thousand saints attending, swell the triumph of his train " with big grins on our faces.
Then there's the line in "All things bright and beautiful": "He lights the Evening Star."
Posts: 3958 | From: Jorvik | Registered: May 2001
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Lothlorien
Ship's Grandma
# 4927
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gee D:
Thanks Barnabas - we shall probably hear it going up the grade from Epping through Pennant Hills to Hornsby. The restoration has been a labour of love...
I did not realise you could have heard it there. We used to hear the big goods trains at night coming down the hill from Eastwood to West Ryde on their way to the city.
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Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128
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Posted
Re. Hymns: there is the line "Jesus takes the highest station ..." - clearly Snowdon Summit.
The Americans might differ ...
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mr cheesy
Shipmate
# 3330
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Posted
I've heard that there is a problem for heritage lines in the UK getting hold of the "right kind" of coal. Is that an issue elsewhere?
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Moo
Ship's tough old bird
# 107
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Posted
In addition to the J class locomotives for passenger service, Roanoke also built the A class locomotives for freight. Here is a description of the A class from this site quote:
The Class A locomotive was known for its durability and power. It routinely pulled 150 cars loaded with coal at an average speed of 70 miles per hour. The N&W shops built 43 Class A engines in the 1940s. The 1218 on display is the only one that escaped the scrap yard.
Moo
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:
Re. Hymns: there is the line "Jesus takes the highest station ..." - clearly Snowdon Summit.
The Americans might differ ...
I'm surprised nobody's quoted "When through the whirls of wheels and of engines humming..."
Incidentally, any views on the new GWR livery? I would have thought if you're going to spend thousands on a new paint job, something a bit less disappointing might be good. I know it's supposed to be harking back to the glorious age of steam (and I still have vivid memories of sticking my head out of the window to enjoy the summer scenery and getting an eyewatering blast of smuts) but it doesn't really work for me and the trains don't seem to be going any faster.
Posts: 25445 | Registered: May 2001
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Stercus Tauri
Shipmate
# 16668
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Jane R:
Stercus Tauri: quote:
At some point we might have a profound and scholarly discussion on the evident connection between steam locomotives and hymns. Whenever I sing, "This is the day that the Lord has made" the strong rhythm and the restrained melody bring me a vision of a railway scene in the highlands, perhaps the Pass of Druimuachdar on a summer day...
Oh, we can find more direct connections than that.
To take one example: my Other Half (whose train set is currently all over the living room floor as part of the Christmas decorations) sang one of his favourite hymns a couple of weeks ago: "Lo, he comes with clouds descending."
Nobody else in the choir could understand why we were singing "Thousand thousand saints attending, swell the triumph of his train " with big grins on our faces.
I am not a devotee of the GWR, but have always admired the simplicity of the visual lines, and the elegance (to my eye) of the early Saints, and was very happy to learn that one would be reincarnated. "Reincarnation" means restored to flesh and blood, more or less, doesn't it? It really is the right word.
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Thay haif said. Quhat say thay, Lat thame say (George Keith, 5th Earl Marischal)
Posts: 905 | From: On the traditional lands of the Six Nations. | Registered: Sep 2011
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betjemaniac
Shipmate
# 17618
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:
I don't know - saints are Christian, reincarnation is Buddhist. Sounds dangerously syncretistic to me.
Anyway, I don't like the early Saints with the straight framing at the back, I prefer the sort with the dropped frames under the cab.
In any case, I prefer the "Star" class - one of which happily survives.
I wish a Bulldog had survived into preservation (I know there's a Dukedog, but that's not quite the same). As a devotee of all things Great and Western I'm quite excited about the new Night Owl. Periodically I think about volunteering on my local line (getting on for the quintessential GWR branch line), but never quite get around to it. They only have one steam engine, and that they hire in every year.
In my wild and mis-spent youth (ie when I was 14-15), I was an engine cleaner on one of the premier preserved lines. Then exams, university and life got in the way before I could pass as a fireman. I'll get back to it eventually.
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Posts: 1481 | From: behind the dreaming spires | Registered: Mar 2013
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Darllenwr
Shipmate
# 14520
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Posted
Betjemaniac, picking up on your remarks about the BR Standards, my guess would be that they were overtaken by the Modernisation Plan in 1955. Given that the first Standards appeared in 1951, I would say that there simply wasn't the will to do the necessary development work on the engines that were built, given that they were effectively obsolete as soon as they left the builders, hence the generally lacklustre performance of the Clans (Class 6). You would note that 71000 has done its best work in preservation, now that the draughting issues have been sorted out.
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If I've told you once, I've told you a million times: I do not exaggerate!
Posts: 1101 | From: The catbox | Registered: Jan 2009
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Stercus Tauri
Shipmate
# 16668
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:
I don't know - saints are Christian, reincarnation is Buddhist. Sounds dangerously syncretistic to me.
Anyway, I don't like the early Saints with the straight framing at the back, I prefer the sort with the dropped frames under the cab.
In any case, I prefer the "Star" class - one of which happily survives.
Dear BT, I must disagree with you most profoundly on this important matter. The straight line of the footplate under the cab of the early Saints gives an impression of lightness and speed, of god-like swiftness, whereas the dropped framing of the later engines suggests that it is sitting back in an armchair, waiting to be served a cup of tea. I know - this is the kind of thing that can make a theological dispute look quite tame if it gets out of control. But I can handle it.
As to reincarnation, I thought it was a safer word than resurrection, which might have had a few people working on a blasphemy charge.
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Thay haif said. Quhat say thay, Lat thame say (George Keith, 5th Earl Marischal)
Posts: 905 | From: On the traditional lands of the Six Nations. | Registered: Sep 2011
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Lothlorien
Ship's Grandma
# 4927
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Barnabas Aus:
Stercus, Cecil J. Allen commented many years ago on the link between church music, church musicians and railway enthusiasm.
To GeeD and Lothlorien, news out this last weekend that 6029 has finally been granted permission to run within Sydney Trains territory and will be based out of Sydney on May and June next, with suburban runs and excursions to Gosford and Lithgow planned.
I mentioned this to my brother, Barnabas. He knew of it already, straight from the horse's mouth so to speak. An assistant at a well known thriving hardware chain at Belrose worked on the restoration. Brother is planning on booking seat to Gosford. Lithow trip sounds inviting to me.
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Posts: 9745 | From: girt by sea | Registered: Aug 2003
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Enoch
Shipmate
# 14322
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Posted
Nerd alert
I would like to have seen a Clan but never did. There weren't very many and they had a very limited distribution. It's a bit of a puzzle why they were built. One would have thought a bigger 4-6-0 than the 73000 series, which was basically a Black 5 with Standard fittings, would have had better adhesion. If it had not been for Riddle's insistence on two cylinders, I'd have thought this could have been done starting from either the Rebuilt Scot or a Castle with different clearances and a firebox designed to burn northern as well as South Wales coal.
I've heard that when Scots began to run through from Leeds to Edinburgh via Carlisle, some drivers on the Waverley line preferred them to A3s because they were not as given to slipping.
I did see Duke of Gloucester in steam days.
If I were starting afresh with the BR Standard fleet, I think I'd have left out the Clans, the 75000 series, the 77000 series and possibly the 82000 series. It is a bit difficult to see what they were for.
I would also probably have carried on producing LMS Black 5s, Doodlebugs, Mickey Mice, the last series of LMS 2-6-4s and the small 2-6-2s, possibly with redesigned cabs, and not bothered designing the 73000, 76000, 78000, 80000 and 84000 series at all. They were almost identical to the LMS designs on which they were based.
Saints and Bulldogs had all gone before my time, and my earliest memories are mainly on ex-LMS territory. I did see quite a few Compounds and Garrets. People always say 'the Midland never built anything bigger than a 4-4-0 but Compounds were larger than some 4-6-0s on other lines. I also twice saw a Fowler Austin 7, which were rare unless you lived in the right place. I'd like to have seen a parallel boilered Scot, but didn't.
On holiday in 1956, I saw a Brighton Atlantic. One of those is being recreated. I also saw some SECR Ds.
If that leaves you envious rather than bored, you too are a nerd
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Posts: 7610 | From: Bristol UK(was European Green Capital 2015, now Ljubljana) | Registered: Nov 2008
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Sober Preacher's Kid
Presbymethegationalist
# 12699
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:
The J-Class were amazing. Pity none of the NYC Niagaras survived.
Many lines, like the Union Pacific, the Santa Fe and Chesapeake & Ohio had excellent locomotive fleets, though they were all standard designs based on standard practices. The N&W was in a class by itself.
The New York Central had a terrible record of preservation, which is all the worse because they initiated the "Superpower" era in the 1920's. The largest steam locomotive preserved from that line is a 2-8-0 Consolidation. This from the road that gave us 2-8-4 Berkshires, 4-6-4 Hudsons and of course the famous Niagaras.
I put it down to the NYC's straightened financial circumstances starting in the 1940's; it was the start of the long-slow descent into the abyss that became Penn Central.
The Pennsy was only marginally better at preserving its locomotives. That road was terribly managed starting in the 1940's (the NYC's management was better) and it showed.
There only two surviving Decapods, no J-1 Texas examples, no Santa Fe's and two K-4 Pacifics, neither of which run.
It's a big of irony that for most of its history the Norfolk & Western was controlled by the PRR.
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Posts: 7646 | From: Peterborough, Upper Canada | Registered: Jun 2007
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Moo
Ship's tough old bird
# 107
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Sober Preacher's Kid
The N&W was in a class by itself.
The N&W's main business was hauling large quantities of coal over the mountains. They built excellent locomotives because they needed them.
Moo
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See you later, alligator.
Posts: 20365 | From: Alleghany Mountains of Virginia | Registered: May 2001
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LA Dave
Shipmate
# 1397
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Posted
SPK, at least there is preserved at least one Pennsy Mountain and Atlantic. The Santa Fe Texans (which ran on PRR rails in Ohio in the 1950s under lease) were actually larger and several survive. There is a Nickel Plate Hudson which appears to be almost a duplicate of a NYC Hudson but, alas, no Niagara.
There is a movement to build a new PRR T-1, along the lines of our British cousins and the Tornado.
Posts: 981 | From: Take a guess | Registered: Sep 2001
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LA Dave
Shipmate
# 1397
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Posted
While I am not a huge fan of the J class locomotives of the N&W, they were impressive. Always preferred the GS-2/GS-4/GS-6 locos of the Southern Pacific, either in the great Daylight orange/red/black color scheme or in black.
Posts: 981 | From: Take a guess | Registered: Sep 2001
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Sober Preacher's Kid
Presbymethegationalist
# 12699
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by LA Dave:
SPK, at least there is preserved at least one Pennsy Mountain and Atlantic. The Santa Fe Texans (which ran on PRR rails in Ohio in the 1950s under lease) were actually larger and several survive. There is a Nickel Plate Hudson which appears to be almost a duplicate of a NYC Hudson but, alas, no Niagara.
There is a movement to build a new PRR T-1, along the lines of our British cousins and the Tornado.
The Pennsy built 125 J1 Texas 2-10-4 types in WWII based on a C&O design, that's what I referred to. They were unusual (for the PRR) in many respects, including their valve gear, radial-stay fireboxes. I wasn't referring to the ATSF leases, though I did refer to the Santa Fe (2-10-2) type.
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NDP Federal Convention Ottawa 2018: A random assortment of Prots and Trots.
Posts: 7646 | From: Peterborough, Upper Canada | Registered: Jun 2007
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Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by LA Dave:
While I am not a huge fan of the J class locomotives of the N&W, they were impressive. Always preferred the GS-2/GS-4/GS-6 locos of the Southern Pacific, either in the great Daylight orange/red/black color scheme or in black.
I like them both - not that I've ever seen them or, indeed, been to the US.
I didn't know that there was a scheme to reincarnate a Pennsy T-1. I wish them luck - they'll certainly need it. And they won't be able to use it to trundle up and down a preserved branch line, it will have to be main line Class 1 use or nothing!
PS Am I alone (says he, venturing into dangerous territory) the only one who'd like to see a GG-1 electric hauled out of a museum and used again? Mind you, there might be technological problems in doing that (interference with modern signalling or traction current systems, for example).
[ 15. December 2015, 07:05: Message edited by: Baptist Trainfan ]
Posts: 9750 | From: The other side of the Severn | Registered: Sep 2009
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betjemaniac
Shipmate
# 17618
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Enoch:
[QB]
On holiday in 1956, I saw a Brighton Atlantic. One of those is being recreated.
Even speaking as a GWR partisan, those are the most beautiful steam locomotives ever built (especially in fully lined BR black with the bicycling lion). I've been waiting for the Bachmann model to come out for 18 months now, and I haven't even got a 00 layout to run it on.
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Posts: 1481 | From: behind the dreaming spires | Registered: Mar 2013
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by betjemaniac:
quote:
Originally posted by Enoch:
[QB]
On holiday in 1956, I saw a Brighton Atlantic. One of those is being recreated.
Even speaking as a GWR partisan, those are the most beautiful steam locomotives ever built (especially in fully lined BR black with the bicycling lion). I've been waiting for the Bachmann model to come out for 18 months now, and I haven't even got a 00 layout to run it on.
I have to agree that the Brighton Atlantics were beautiful but the 4-4-2 arrangement, big or small, tender or tank, is naturally well-proportioned. The Adams 0415 4-4-2 tanks are beautiful too (even if they couldn't pull the skin off a rice pudding) and if anyone can think of an ugly or even plain 4-4-2 let me know.
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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betjemaniac
Shipmate
# 17618
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
if anyone can think of an ugly or even plain 4-4-2 let me know.
The 2 GWR French ones? La France and President.
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And is it true? For if it is....
Posts: 1481 | From: behind the dreaming spires | Registered: Mar 2013
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by betjemaniac:
quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
if anyone can think of an ugly or even plain 4-4-2 let me know.
The 2 GWR French ones? La France and President.
I think you have me there!
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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betjemaniac
Shipmate
# 17618
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
quote:
Originally posted by betjemaniac:
quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
if anyone can think of an ugly or even plain 4-4-2 let me know.
The 2 GWR French ones? La France and President.
I think you have me there!
it was the best of lines, it was the worst of lines...
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Posts: 1481 | From: behind the dreaming spires | Registered: Mar 2013
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Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128
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Posted
PS I don't know if you'd call them beautiful ... but the Milwaukee Road Class A and the Belgian Class 12 Atlantics were pretty special.
Posts: 9750 | From: The other side of the Severn | Registered: Sep 2009
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Darllenwr
Shipmate
# 14520
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Posted
Enoch, I believe that the logic for building the Clans was the desire to have a class 6 locomotive with a wide firebox - something not easily accommodated over a coupled axle. As you may be aware, Riddles' original thinking on what was to become the 9F's was a 2-8-2, again for the wide firebox. Riddles was concerned that having a coupled axle under the firebox would constrain the ashpan too much and inhibit air flow. I cannot remember which of his designers it was schemed out the ashpan used on the 9F's, showing that sufficient clearance could be achieved by using 5 foot coupled wheels. The rest, as they say, is history.
Riddles was concerned by deteriorating coal quality, hence the desire to fit large grates to the Standards wherever possible.
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If I've told you once, I've told you a million times: I do not exaggerate!
Posts: 1101 | From: The catbox | Registered: Jan 2009
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LA Dave
Shipmate
# 1397
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Posted
SPK: I know the difference between a PRR and an ATSF Texas. My point was that if we are to preserve locomotives, the ATSF version of the Texas was more impressive and the loss of the PRR example is not as serious. Sort of the way that the Nickle Plate Hudson at least gives the flavor of the NYC Hudson.
My greater regret is that we have no preserved Niagara, maybe the greatest Northern ever (though N&W folks will disagree, I'm sure).
BTW, I saw the Big Boy being prepped at the LA County Fairgrounds just beforeher journey up to Colton and then Cheyenne. At first they couldn't move her, then realized that her drivers had been welded to the track. (Earthquakes). Once the weld was freed, she rolled as easily as when she was outshopped at ALCO in 1941.
Also BTW, the T-1 restoration has a Facebook page. They are slowly trying to raise money. Apparently, the loco's reputation for wheel slippage may have been exaggerated, and more a function of engineer mistakes than of design. They were a tricky lot though.
Posts: 981 | From: Take a guess | Registered: Sep 2001
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Sober Preacher's Kid
Presbymethegationalist
# 12699
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Posted
I have a particular liking for the PRR Texas types, I admit. I like the CPR Selkirks (as they called them) even better, but they were the largest locomotives ever run in Canada.
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NDP Federal Convention Ottawa 2018: A random assortment of Prots and Trots.
Posts: 7646 | From: Peterborough, Upper Canada | Registered: Jun 2007
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by LA Dave:
Also BTW, the T-1 restoration has a Facebook page. They are slowly trying to raise money. Apparently, the loco's reputation for wheel slippage may have been exaggerated, and more a function of engineer mistakes than of design. They were a tricky lot though.
On the subject of duplexes, Francis Webb of the LNWR and Dugald Drummond of the LSWR designed "doubled singles" like this. Some of Webb's were very prone to slipping, not helped by the separate pairs of drivers rotating in different directions! Why Drummond bothered is a mystery as his 4-4-0's were plenty capable enough.
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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mark_in_manchester
not waving, but...
# 15978
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Posted
There was talk of Garrats in the thread above - I thought since my city was home to Beyer-Peacock, people might like to see this!
Our heritage museums are great, but East Manchester itself is a theme-park of post-industrial decay. The city must have been quite a place when it was busy.
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"We are punished by our sins, not for them" - Elbert Hubbard
(so good, I wanted to see it after my posts and not only after those of shipmate JBohn from whom I stole it)
Posts: 1596 | Registered: Oct 2010
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Enoch
Shipmate
# 14322
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Posted
In Algeria, there were some express Garratts. I'd like to have seen one.
I have to admit to being puzzled what the benefits actually might be of a Duplex that is not articulated and has rigid frames. As Sioni Sais has said, the Webb and Drummond ones seem to have been complete turkeys. Articulation creates its own problems, but enables one to have a bigger engine that can go round curves. That's why small narrow gauge ones were popular. In effect, a Garratt is a double header with one big shared boiler and one crew.
Darlienwr I think you're right about what the Clan was supposed to be, but I'm still not sure why not just build more Brits. The Clans didn't regularly work on lines Brits were too heavy for - or for that matter Scots. And Pacifics are much more given to slipping, viz the Bulleid ones.
Going back to Atlantics, I quite like the French ones, but the GWR's own Atlantics, which were a 4-6-0 with a trailing axle in stead of the rear driver do look a bit peculiar in photos. They got converted back again.
[ 15. December 2015, 22:51: Message edited by: Enoch ]
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Brexit wrexit - Sir Graham Watson
Posts: 7610 | From: Bristol UK(was European Green Capital 2015, now Ljubljana) | Registered: Nov 2008
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
On the subject of duplex drive I believe the principle was to reduce "hammer blow" but there are ways to do that which don't involve indecisive locomotives, such as cunningly phasing the motion, which can be done neatly with 3-cylinder arrangements.
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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LA Dave
Shipmate
# 1397
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Posted
Duplexes were pretty cursed on North American rails. The Baltimore & Ohio built one in 1937, which spent much time in the shops and was scrapped by 1950 (and the B&O was a late steam user).
My favorite duplex, the Pennsy's S-1 (6-4-4-6), was actually longer (locomotive size) than a Big Boy. She only served on the line for about four years however, and was scrapped at age 10 in 1949. The S-1 could, however, handle a 1200 ton train at 100 mph on level ground. As long as the wheels didn't slip. She was too long for much of the PRR's route, and basically handled trains only between Chicago and Crestline Ohio. I think that T-1s could venture as far east as Harrisburg, where GG-1s took up the slack.
The T-1s similarly had a short lifespan on the Pennsy, but it is also true that the railroad was pretty rapidly dieselizing its passenger traffic by the late 1940s, since its principal passenger locomotive, the K-4s, was aging rapidly and had to be double-headed on heavy trains.
Posts: 981 | From: Take a guess | Registered: Sep 2001
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LA Dave
Shipmate
# 1397
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Posted
SPK: Yeah, the Selkirks were impressive. Canadian steam is under appreciated in the states, but there are many examples of CN and CP locomotives that have been preserved I also liked the Pennsy Texas types, with their curved cab windows. Very snazzy.
Posts: 981 | From: Take a guess | Registered: Sep 2001
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Sober Preacher's Kid
Presbymethegationalist
# 12699
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Posted
Especially at the weird collection that is Steamtown National Historic Site.
I am perhaps drawn to the PRR Texas locomotives as the rest of the PRR's steam designs during that era were a failed freak show (like the S-1 and the T-1).
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NDP Federal Convention Ottawa 2018: A random assortment of Prots and Trots.
Posts: 7646 | From: Peterborough, Upper Canada | Registered: Jun 2007
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Albertus
Shipmate
# 13356
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Posted
This is an absorbing discussion, even for those of us who have little or no knowledge of North American locomotives. Although serious and well-informed it has at times a flavour of the great Myles na gCopaleen's 'For Steam Men' (and that is intended to be high praise).
Posts: 6498 | From: Y Sowth | Registered: Jan 2008
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Enoch
Shipmate
# 14322
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Posted
Something really curious from over here, about North American steam development are cab-forward locomotives. We had push-pull fitted tank engines, which could be driven from a driving compartment at the other end of the train. But engines built that way, we never had.
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Brexit wrexit - Sir Graham Watson
Posts: 7610 | From: Bristol UK(was European Green Capital 2015, now Ljubljana) | Registered: Nov 2008
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