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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Richest 62 people own more than half world population
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
I heard this reported from Oxfam this morning:
Richest 62 people own as much wealth as half the world's population, says Oxfam (CBC).
I guess "trickle down" doesn't work. I have thought the taxation systems are set up wrong. That they enable this imbalance. That it results in companies having the ability to set social policies via having so much money and sponsoring things. That this results in life-death issues for people around the world. That it results in war and death. etc.
quote:
188 of 201 leading companies have a presence in at least one tax haven
The figures suggest that the biggest causes of poverty are ... political, economic and social marginalization of particular groups in countries that are otherwise doing quite well
I haven't clue how to address this.
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Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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Schroedinger's cat
Ship's cool cat
# 64
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Posted
The thing is, it is easy to have jealous comments about the very wealthy. I don't have a problem with some people being exceptionally rich. What I have a problem with is the disparity, that some have more money than they can spend while others are starving.
I do think Bill Gates has tried to show what can be done with vast wealth. He is using it to make a big difference. I just wish far more of the wealthy would use their spare* money for the good of others.
*Spare, in that they really don't need over a certain amount.
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Posts: 18859 | From: At the bottom of a deep dark well. | Registered: May 2001
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Gamaliel
Shipmate
# 812
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Posted
This isn't an issue of being 'jealous' of them ... nobody's suggesting they share their wealth with thee or me ...
It's a wider and more fundamental issue than that.
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Let us with a gladsome mind
Praise the Lord for He is kind.
http://philthebard.blogspot.com
Posts: 15997 | From: Cheshire, UK | Registered: Jul 2001
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Martin60
Shipmate
# 368
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Posted
Tax wealth. And every wealth transaction. Return it to the poor whence it came.
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Love wins
Posts: 17586 | From: Never Dobunni after all. Corieltauvi after all. Just moved to the capital. | Registered: Jun 2001
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
Monopoly. Buying elections. Enforcement of punitive intellectual property and copyright laws. Control the message, the brand, and enforce rigorously. Pry open foreign markets, buy resources, cut wages. Convince yourself that you are better able to spend the money in the private and public interest that might have elsewise gone to national budgets via taxation. Get the government to invade a country for you. Build a palace.
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Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
\_(ツ)_/
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
I need to research more about this, but I'm getting more and more the feeling that there is too much money in the world. It's becoming more and more difficult for a billionaire to find what to do with your money. After you buy a couple of mansions and Lamborghinis, it tends to become a bit of the same.
In the past, if you had a lot of money, you would buy or construct a factory that made things, sell these things and make more money. But since the purchasing power of the poor isn't increasing, this isn't a very valid strategy anymore. So you have a lot of money going around the world without doing anything.
(This also leads to billionaires doing silly things, like buying Premier League teams and running for president.)
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
Posts: 9474 | From: Brazil / Africa | Registered: Aug 2002
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itsarumdo
Shipmate
# 18174
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Posted
Money = Debt
For every cent of money, someone is in debt by one cent. "I promise to pay the bearer"... The only way that currency is created is by creating bonds or similar instruments of debt. The problem was recognised as far back as the Mesopotamian civilisations, when there were regular debt amnesties - and all credit notes (today = currency and other financial instruments) were declared null and void. The alternative was slavery and crushing poverty, and eventually people resorting to selling their own children. 5000 years, plus ca change. Except that although society is on the whole spomewhat kinder, it's been a long time since the last debt restructuring.
Posts: 994 | From: Planet Zog | Registered: Jul 2014
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gamaliel:
This isn't an issue of being 'jealous' of them ... nobody's suggesting they share their wealth with thee or me ...
It's a wider and more fundamental issue than that.
Saying "you're just jealous" when someone brings up the inequities and real damage done by such a concentration of wealth is just bulverism, which is ultimately a form of ad hominem. Yeah, maybe I'm jealous. That's nice. Now let's talk about the damage this set-up is doing to the planet and to the human race.
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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Marvin the Martian
Interplanetary
# 4360
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:
Richest 62 people own as much wealth as half the world's population, says Oxfam (CBC).
I wish I could see their data. I want to work out what percentage of the global population I own the same amount as.
quote:
Originally posted by Martin60:
Tax wealth. And every wealth transaction. Return it to the poor whence it came.
Taxation alone would not do anything to "return it to the poor". All it would do is transfer the wealth from individuals to governments - and as the report notes, "the biggest causes of poverty are ... political, economic and social marginalization of particular groups in countries that are otherwise doing quite well" (my emphasis). If the governments of those countries aren't doing anything about it now, what makes you think giving them even more tax income would change things?
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Hail Gallaxhar
Posts: 30100 | From: Adrift on a sea of surreality | Registered: Apr 2003
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
I have the feeling that the system is becoming top-heavy. Top-heavy things tend to tip over.
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
Posts: 9474 | From: Brazil / Africa | Registered: Aug 2002
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
quote:
Originally posted by Martin60:
Tax wealth. And every wealth transaction. Return it to the poor whence it came.
Taxation alone would not do anything to "return it to the poor". All it would do is transfer the wealth from individuals to governments - and as the report notes, "the biggest causes of poverty are ... political, economic and social marginalization of particular groups in countries that are otherwise doing quite well" (my emphasis). If the governments of those countries aren't doing anything about it now, what makes you think giving them even more tax income would change things?
Two of those countries are the UK and the USA. Two wealthy countries in which the poor have got poorer and the rich have got richer. We could actually vote the governments out and replace them with others that would do something about these political, economic and social circumstances, but we don't. For what it's worth I reckon it's because the government and the rich are one and the same and they have managed to scare enough voters to hang onto their coat tails.
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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Marvin the Martian
Interplanetary
# 4360
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
Two of those countries are the UK and the USA. Two wealthy countries in which the poor have got poorer and the rich have got richer.
I believe India was also mentioned.
quote:
We could actually vote the governments out and replace them with others that would do something about these political, economic and social circumstances, but we don't.
What that tells me is the majority of people - or at the least a sufficiently large number of people to affect every election in my lifetime - in three of the biggest democracies in the world aren't really that bothered about poverty. Not to the extent that they're willing to risk being worse off themselves, anyway.
There's your problem. If you can convince enough people to vote for Corbyn, Sanders, or whoever the comparable politician in India is then it won't matter what the rich people think.
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Hail Gallaxhar
Posts: 30100 | From: Adrift on a sea of surreality | Registered: Apr 2003
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
You missed the last sentence in my post, which tells the story. Many people are too scared and selfish to throw the bastards out!
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
Throwing the bastards out means getting another set of only slightly different bastards these days. The neoliberal economic policies since the 1970s are the policies of all. Small economies as well don't have the ability to change national economic policies very much.
I have personally benefitted greatly from these tax policies and economics. It's one of those luck things. Going into business at the right time.
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Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
\_(ツ)_/
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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Marvin the Martian
Interplanetary
# 4360
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
You missed the last sentence in my post, which tells the story. Many people are too scared and selfish to throw the bastards out!
As I said, they're not sufficiently bothered about poverty to risk being worse off themselves. You're using harsher language, but it's the same issue.
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Hail Gallaxhar
Posts: 30100 | From: Adrift on a sea of surreality | Registered: Apr 2003
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Dafyd
Shipmate
# 5549
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
You missed the last sentence in my post, which tells the story. Many people are too scared and selfish to throw the bastards out!
As I said, they're not sufficiently bothered about poverty to risk being worse off themselves. You're using harsher language, but it's the same issue.
You're both implying that people make decisions based on their rational self-interest. Largely we don't. If our rational self-interest doesn't fall within the current Overton window, generally speaking we won't vote for it regardless of whether the Overton window's current location is based on rational considerations or on propaganda.
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we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams
Posts: 10567 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Feb 2004
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Marvin the Martian
Interplanetary
# 4360
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Dafyd:
You're both implying that people make decisions based on their rational self-interest.
Our perception of our own self-interest, certainly. Whether that accords with what an independent, objectively rational observer would consider to be our self-interest is a different matter - if such a thing even exists. I'm sure we can all think of situations where we'd be objectively better off, but where the steps required to achieve it would be utterly unacceptable to us.
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Hail Gallaxhar
Posts: 30100 | From: Adrift on a sea of surreality | Registered: Apr 2003
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
Economist of acquaintance tells me that people will accept bad government, disparity between the rich and poor, and related things, so long as they believe that they are doing better than others they compare to. Because of our communications revolution with confusers, smarty phones etc we can compare easily to other countries and continents with ease and easily perceive ourselves better off.
It also makes me wonder if the perpetual war between Oceania and Eastasia (or whomever the belligerents may be from time to time) in the interests of the economic order in that it keeps us fearful and grateful both, and willing thus to sip sugar and eat fat, maintain our Windows 10 on the world, and buy things to curb our anxieties.
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Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
\_(ツ)_/
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
“Philanthropy is commendable, but it must not cause the philanthropist to overlook the circumstances of economic injustice which make philanthropy necessary.” - Martin Luther King, Jr.
Which is a very good point. I understand his birthday was recently celebrated is USA. Is there anyone anymore who considers that churches are supposed to be the conscience of a nation like he did?
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Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
\_(ツ)_/
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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Timothy the Obscure
Mostly Friendly
# 292
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Posted
"When I gave bread to the poor, they called me a saint; when I asked why the poor had no bread they called me a communist" --Dorothy Day
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When you think of the long and gloomy history of man, you will find more hideous crimes have been committed in the name of obedience than have ever been committed in the name of rebellion.
- C. P. Snow
Posts: 6114 | From: PDX | Registered: May 2001
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
I thought it was Dom Hélder Câmara?
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
Posts: 9474 | From: Brazil / Africa | Registered: Aug 2002
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itsarumdo
Shipmate
# 18174
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Posted
He was just quoting Dorothy Day ![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
[ 21. January 2016, 08:48: Message edited by: itsarumdo ]
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"Iti sapis potanda tinone" Lycophron
Posts: 994 | From: Planet Zog | Registered: Jul 2014
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