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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Sanders supporters
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Gwai
Shipmate
# 11076
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Posted
Dear Fellow Americans,*
You are intellectually dishonest, and I'm sick of it. I am damn tired of hearing you put your hands on your (metaphorical) cheeks and squeak "OH! Superdelegates! I'd never Heeaaaard of them! OH MY God! OH NOOOOES!" If you are so involved in the political system such that you are upset that super delegates are an advantage to insider candidates, why the fuck hadn't you heard of them? I'll be direct, I don't even slightly believe that you don't like the way super-delegates advantage some candidates. You just don't like that superdelegates are a disadvantage to YOUR precious little candidate.
*If you are not from the U.S., this is about super delegates and the Democratic (or Republican) primaries.
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A master of men was the Goodly Fere,
A mate of the wind and sea.
If they think they ha’ slain our Goodly Fere
They are fools eternally.
Posts: 11914 | From: Chicago | Registered: Feb 2006
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rolyn
Shipmate
# 16840
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Posted
* I was just gonna say WTF ![[Confused]](confused.gif)
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Change is the only certainty of existence
Posts: 3206 | From: U.K. | Registered: Dec 2011
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Leorning Cniht
Shipmate
# 17564
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Posted
Nobody can possibly have lived through Obama vs Clinton eight years ago without knowing what a superdelegate is. I'll give the kids a break - it's reasonable to be fired up about social justice without knowing all your party's electoral arcana, but anyone over 30 has no excuse.
Superdelegates are about 1/6 of the total, so if they all vote Clinton, Bernie Sanders needs 60% of the elected delegates. Personally, I think if the election goes 58-42 in Sanders's favour, some of the superdelegates will jump ship and support him.
In 2008, Obama and Clinton were pretty even in the primaries, and the superdelegates swung it for Obama. If Clinton and Sanders are fairly even this time around, there's no question that the superdelegates will line up behind Clinton. Put Sanders 55-45 or more in the lead, though, and it's a different question.
Posts: 5026 | From: USA | Registered: Feb 2013
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
To be honest, it is a bit daft.
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
Posts: 9474 | From: Brazil / Africa | Registered: Aug 2002
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Stetson
Shipmate
# 9597
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Posted
quote:
I'll be direct, I don't even slightly believe that you don't like the way super-delegates advantage some candidates. You just don't like that superdelegates are a disadvantage to YOUR precious little candidate.
There is a tendency, among low to mid-level political activists, to bewail certain features of the political system that happen to be hampering their favorite candidate or party, without acknowledging(or realizing?) that there are likely cases where it has benefitted their favorite candidate or party.
In Canada, the constant moan is "OMG!! This country is sliding into a fascist dictatorship!! The Widget Party has more than half the seats in the House, with only a minority of the popular vote!!"
In almost any case, instances could be found of that guy's party dining out on the same electoral discrepancies. I sometimes wonder if the people who do this complaining are being dishonest, or if they REALLY think that only their enemies have capitalized on the oddities of First Past The Post voting.
[ 11. February 2016, 19:13: Message edited by: Stetson ]
Posts: 6574 | From: back and forth between bible belts | Registered: Jun 2005
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Fr Weber
Shipmate
# 13472
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by LeRoc:
To be honest, it is a bit daft.
So's the Electoral College in general. It's a stupid anachronism, and it's time for it to go away.
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"The Eucharist is not a play, and you're not Jesus."
--Sr Theresa Koernke, IHM
Posts: 2512 | From: Oakland, CA | Registered: Feb 2008
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Nicolemr
Shipmate
# 28
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Posted
I am getting so tired of Sanders supporters dumping on Clinton. I know some who are brutal towards her, who says he won't vote for her at all if she wins over Sanders. And there are plenty more wh feel the same way. If we don't all pull together, the Democrats are once more going to pull defeat from the jaws of victory. ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
[ 16. February 2016, 22:02: Message edited by: Nicolemr ]
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On pilgrimage in the endless realms of Cyberia, currently traveling by ship. Now with live journal!
Posts: 11803 | From: New York City "The City Carries On" | Registered: May 2001
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Beeswax Altar
Shipmate
# 11644
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Posted
Republican superdelegates can't really influence the nomination. Democratic superdelegates have the power they do so that the party leaders can keep the base from nominating somebody like Sanders. If Trump wins, Republicans might have more superdelegates with more power to influence the nomination.
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Losing sleep is something you want to avoid, if possible.
-Og: King of Bashan
Posts: 8411 | From: By a large lake | Registered: Jul 2006
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passer
Indigo
# 13329
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Posted
Dodgy goings-on in US elections? My, my. I wonder how significant hanging chads are to the current state of world conflicts? Thanks Florida!
Posts: 1289 | From: Sheffield | Registered: Jan 2008
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alienfromzog
Ship's Alien
# 5327
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by passer:
Dodgy goings-on in US elections? My, my. I wonder how significant hanging chads are to the current state of world conflicts? Thanks Florida!
To be fair, the hanging chads were a small part of it.
The key factors include, the Governor of Florida striking lots of people off the electoral register on the basis that they *might* be criminals and the way the electoral controversy was managed.
Now, remind me, who was the Governor again?
Hmmmm...
The Supreme Court has a lot to answer for as well.
AFZ
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Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts.
[Sen. D.P.Moynihan]
An Alien's View of Earth - my blog (or vanity exercise...)
Posts: 2150 | From: Zog, obviously! Straight past Alpha Centauri, 2nd planet on the left... | Registered: Dec 2003
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
I understand that the biggest problem in Florida was the confusing layout of some of the ballots.
There were a number of issues with this, but there was a ballot that said in bold letters Vote on every page!
On page 1, people could put a cross by the name of their chosen candidate for president. On page 3 you could write the name if you wanted to vote for someone who was not on the list. (On page 2 you could vote for something else.)
There were a lot of people who put a cross by Al Gore on page 1, but who also wrote the name Al Gore on page 3.
This was interpreted as an attempt to vote twice, so these votes were declared invalid. Clearly this was an error in ballot design, and these people obviously intended to vote for Al Gore. If these votes had been counted, he would have been declared the winner by a rather large margin.
And yes, the fact that a tribunal illegally ruled on this, in a state where the governor is the brother of one of the candidates is also a big factor.
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
Posts: 9474 | From: Brazil / Africa | Registered: Aug 2002
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Alan Cresswell
Mad Scientist 先生
# 31
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by LeRoc:
There were a lot of people who put a cross by Al Gore on page 1, but who also wrote the name Al Gore on page 3.
Presumably there were also a lot of people who did the same for the other candidates, which all other things being equal would result in the discarding of those votes cancelling out. Yes, I know, not all other things are equal.
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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.
Posts: 32413 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001
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Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
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Posted
It's a very worrying thing that that governor now looks like a less awful option than the rest of the Republicans.
Posts: 5833 | Registered: May 2009
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
quote:
Alan Cresswell: Presumably there were also a lot of people who did the same for the other candidates, which all other things being equal would result in the discarding of those votes cancelling out.
Not really. This happened in a Democrat-favourable district. They actually counted how often this mistake happened (after the tribunal had declared Bush the winner) and counting these votes would have led to an advantage of something like 17,000 votes for Gore, more than enough to tip the Florida election.
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
Posts: 9474 | From: Brazil / Africa | Registered: Aug 2002
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Alan Cresswell
Mad Scientist 先生
# 31
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Posted
As I said, not all other things were equal. Issuing the confusing ballots only in some districts, and for those districts to favour one candidate, is one thing that is not equal. Another could be whether people for whom English is a second language were more easily confused by the ballot, and if that population favoured one candidate more than another.
This time around it seems to be voter ID that will be something that influences voter turnout in a manner that favours one candidate over the other.
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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.
Posts: 32413 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001
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alienfromzog
Ship's Alien
# 5327
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Posted
Yep, it really stinks.
And in the UK, the current government are starting to play the same kind of games.
AFZ
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Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts.
[Sen. D.P.Moynihan]
An Alien's View of Earth - my blog (or vanity exercise...)
Posts: 2150 | From: Zog, obviously! Straight past Alpha Centauri, 2nd planet on the left... | Registered: Dec 2003
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
There's a difference between not liking how the system works (superdelegates) and the system simply not working correctly (crappily designed ballot papers).
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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Pigwidgeon
Ship's Owl
# 10192
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
There's a difference between not liking how the system works (superdelegates) and the system simply not working correctly (crappily designed ballot papers).
Such as the infamous "butterfly ballot" used in Palm Beach County, Florida, in 2000.
![[Mad]](angryfire.gif)
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"...that is generally a matter for Pigwidgeon, several other consenting adults, a bottle of cheap Gin and the odd giraffe."
~Tortuf
Posts: 9835 | From: Hogwarts | Registered: Aug 2005
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RuthW
liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Nicolemr:
I am getting so tired of Sanders supporters dumping on Clinton. I know some who are brutal towards her, who says he won't vote for her at all if she wins over Sanders. And there are plenty more wh feel the same way. If we don't all pull together, the Democrats are once more going to pull defeat from the jaws of victory.
This goes both ways. I wonder if Clinton's prominent supporters realize it.
Posts: 24453 | From: La La Land | Registered: Apr 2001
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Nicolemr
Shipmate
# 28
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Posted
RuthW, It may be, and probably is, true of Clinton supporters too, but firstly, I am seeing much more Sanders supporters doing it, (though that is partly because of one specific person on my facebook friends list who just won't SHUT UP about it), and secondly, this is specifically a thread about Sanders supporters so I didn't mention the Clinton supporters.
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On pilgrimage in the endless realms of Cyberia, currently traveling by ship. Now with live journal!
Posts: 11803 | From: New York City "The City Carries On" | Registered: May 2001
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Beeswax Altar
Shipmate
# 11644
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:
quote:
Originally posted by Nicolemr:
I am getting so tired of Sanders supporters dumping on Clinton. I know some who are brutal towards her, who says he won't vote for her at all if she wins over Sanders. And there are plenty more wh feel the same way. If we don't all pull together, the Democrats are once more going to pull defeat from the jaws of victory.
This goes both ways. I wonder if Clinton's prominent supporters realize it.
You just like Sanders because of the cute boys. Well, there is a special place in hell just for you.
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Losing sleep is something you want to avoid, if possible.
-Og: King of Bashan
Posts: 8411 | From: By a large lake | Registered: Jul 2006
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Beeswax Altar:
You just like Sanders because of the cute boys. Well, there is a special place in hell just for you.
![[Overused]](graemlins/notworthy.gif)
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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RuthW
liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13
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Posted
The special hell is that there are so many hipster boys at the Sanders rallies. Who knew there was that much moustache wax in the whole world?
Posts: 24453 | From: La La Land | Registered: Apr 2001
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Belle Ringer
Shipmate
# 13379
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Nicolemr:
RuthW, It may be, and probably is, true of Clinton supporters too, but firstly, I am seeing much more Sanders supporters doing it, (though that is partly because of one specific person on my facebook friends list who just won't SHUT UP about it), and secondly, this is specifically a thread about Sanders supporters so I didn't mention the Clinton supporters.
Some Sanders backers don't think of themselves as Democrats. Some of my Sanders fan friends normally vote Libertarian or Green, so of course they would not vote for Clinton. What proportion of Sanders backers, I don't know.
Posts: 5830 | From: Texas | Registered: Jan 2008
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:
The special hell is that there are so many hipster boys at the Sanders rallies. Who knew there was that much moustache wax in the whole world?
Brrrr. I am picturing a convention of the last five or six years of douchy Top Chef contestants...
What are the Manbun stats?
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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Beeswax Altar
Shipmate
# 11644
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Posted
You know you like hipster boys.
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Losing sleep is something you want to avoid, if possible.
-Og: King of Bashan
Posts: 8411 | From: By a large lake | Registered: Jul 2006
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
I didn't even like hipster boys when they were age appropriate.
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
I didn't even like hipster boys when they were age appropriate.
When you were of hipster age, hipster hadn't been invented yet.
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
Actually yes, in the Bay Area they used that term. I would make people really mad calling them that. Mods, too. ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
Hippies, now-- different story all together.
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
Yes, at least hipsters bathe.
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
But hippies are more self-aware and consistent.*
Hipsters do generate some accidentally cool things, such as interesting entertainment and food. But the trendy buggers are fickle and those very same things can die as quickly as they appear.
*which is not always a good thing.
ETA: mt, your comment with your current sig is very amusing.
[ 21. February 2016, 17:23: Message edited by: lilBuddha ]
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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Sober Preacher's Kid
Presbymethegationalist
# 12699
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Posted
After the trainwreck that was GW Bush, after Ronald Reagan, after Newt Gingrich and his cabal of right-wing nuts, you guys get an honest Democratic Socialist and you have the balls to look a gift-horse in the mouth? ![[Paranoid]](graemlins/paranoid.gif)
What the fuck is wrong with you people?
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NDP Federal Convention Ottawa 2018: A random assortment of Prots and Trots.
Posts: 7646 | From: Peterborough, Upper Canada | Registered: Jun 2007
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
ETA: mt, your comment with your current sig is very amusing.
![[Killing me]](graemlins/killingme.gif)
Good eye!
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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Nicolemr
Shipmate
# 28
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Posted
quote:
After the trainwreck that was GW Bush, after Ronald Reagan, after Newt Gingrich and his cabal of right-wing nuts, you guys get an honest Democratic Socialist and you have the balls to look a gift-horse in the mouth? [Paranoid]
What the fuck is wrong with you people?
Personally, I actually intend voting for Sanders. But some of his other supporters are so damn obnoxious that I'm tempted to vote for anyone else other than him just to show them. Seriously, raging about "Hilbots" and "Shillery"... The person I was complaining about above almost NEVER posts anything good abut Bernie, instead we're treated to post after post of anti-Hillary bile. It's wearing.
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On pilgrimage in the endless realms of Cyberia, currently traveling by ship. Now with live journal!
Posts: 11803 | From: New York City "The City Carries On" | Registered: May 2001
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Pigwidgeon
Ship's Owl
# 10192
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Sober Preacher's Kid:
After the trainwreck that was GW Bush, after Ronald Reagan, after Newt Gingrich and his cabal of right-wing nuts, you guys get an honest Democratic Socialist and you have the balls to look a gift-horse in the mouth?
What the fuck is wrong with you people?
I'm just waiting until March 22 to vote for Bernie -- if there's still a contest after Super Tuesday and dozen or so in between.
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"...that is generally a matter for Pigwidgeon, several other consenting adults, a bottle of cheap Gin and the odd giraffe."
~Tortuf
Posts: 9835 | From: Hogwarts | Registered: Aug 2005
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simontoad
Ship's Amphibian
# 18096
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Posted
Hogwarts gets a primary? Cool ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
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Human
Posts: 1571 | From: Romsey, Vic, AU | Registered: May 2014
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Ariston
Insane Unicorn
# 10894
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Sober Preacher's Kid:
After the trainwreck that was GW Bush, after Ronald Reagan, after Newt Gingrich and his cabal of right-wing nuts, you guys get an honest Democratic Socialist and you have the balls to look a gift-horse in the mouth?
What the fuck is wrong with you people?
Easy. I'd like my honest-to-God democratic socialists to have a fucking clue, or even a slushy snowball's chance in the deepest, darkest brimstone-burning furnace in Hell, about politics and how to make a nice-sounding vision reality. Bernie sounds nice. I like the idea of everybody I know no longer having crippling debt they can't pay off. I'd like to live in a country where labor laws are enforced. I don't think Bernie can do any of the things he's promising, and "we'll start a revolution" isn't an actual plan.
Do I think his candidacy is important in that it pulls the person who does have a snowball's chance leftwards? Sure. It's like what my Wobblie friends do with dual-union campaigning—have a mainstream union recognized as the bargaining unit in front of the NLRB, and the other radical one influencing the ideology and strategy.
So yeah, I like some of the policies, but as for implementation? Think he'd crash and Bern.
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“Therefore, let it be explained that nowhere are the proprieties quite so strictly enforced as in men’s colleges that invite young women guests, especially over-night visitors in the fraternity houses.” Emily Post, 1937.
Posts: 6849 | From: The People's Republic of Balcones | Registered: Jan 2006
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cliffdweller
Shipmate
# 13338
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ariston:
quote:
Originally posted by Sober Preacher's Kid:
After the trainwreck that was GW Bush, after Ronald Reagan, after Newt Gingrich and his cabal of right-wing nuts, you guys get an honest Democratic Socialist and you have the balls to look a gift-horse in the mouth?
What the fuck is wrong with you people?
Easy. I'd like my honest-to-God democratic socialists to have a fucking clue, or even a slushy snowball's chance in the deepest, darkest brimstone-burning furnace in Hell, about politics and how to make a nice-sounding vision reality. Bernie sounds nice. I like the idea of everybody I know no longer having crippling debt they can't pay off. I'd like to live in a country where labor laws are enforced. I don't think Bernie can do any of the things he's promising, and "we'll start a revolution" isn't an actual plan.
...So yeah, I like some of the policies, but as for implementation? Think he'd crash and Bern.
Based on what, exactly? Unlike many of those running on the other side of the aisle, his record in Congress suggests he is, in fact, able to get broker deals and get things done.
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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner
Posts: 11242 | From: a small canyon overlooking the city | Registered: Jan 2008
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cliffdweller
Shipmate
# 13338
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Nicolemr:
Personally, I actually intend voting for Sanders. But some of his other supporters are so damn obnoxious that I'm tempted to vote for anyone else other than him just to show them. Seriously, raging about "Hilbots" and "Shillery"... The person I was complaining about above almost NEVER posts anything good abut Bernie, instead we're treated to post after post of anti-Hillary bile. It's wearing.
Agreed, although, as noted above, it seems to go both ways.
And it's in contrast to the debates, where the Dem debates seem so... adult compared to the sociopathic alpha-male posturing/ toddler tantrums we've seen from the GOP debates.
If Bern is still in the race by the time Calif's primary comes around, I'll be delighted to vote for him. But if Hillary gets the nod, I will happily vote for her-- no nose-holding required.
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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner
Posts: 11242 | From: a small canyon overlooking the city | Registered: Jan 2008
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RuthW
liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by cliffdweller:
If Bern is still in the race by the time Calif's primary comes around ...
Ha! We get our turn on June 7. It'll be worth turning out to vote in the Senate race, but I doubt very much the contest for the Democratic presidential nomination will drag out that long.
Posts: 24453 | From: La La Land | Registered: Apr 2001
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Nicolemr:
quote:
After the trainwreck that was GW Bush, after Ronald Reagan, after Newt Gingrich and his cabal of right-wing nuts, you guys get an honest Democratic Socialist and you have the balls to look a gift-horse in the mouth? [Paranoid]
What the fuck is wrong with you people?
Personally, I actually intend voting for Sanders. But some of his other supporters are so damn obnoxious that I'm tempted to vote for anyone else other than him just to show them. Seriously, raging about "Hilbots" and "Shillery"... The person I was complaining about above almost NEVER posts anything good abut Bernie, instead we're treated to post after post of anti-Hillary bile. It's wearing.
Even Bernie has complained about this shit.
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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cliffdweller
Shipmate
# 13338
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:
quote:
Originally posted by cliffdweller:
If Bern is still in the race by the time Calif's primary comes around ...
Ha! We get our turn on June 7. It'll be worth turning out to vote in the Senate race, but I doubt very much the contest for the Democratic presidential nomination will drag out that long.
Yes. Although I remember saying virtually the same exact thing about Obama (and Hillary) in '08.
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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner
Posts: 11242 | From: a small canyon overlooking the city | Registered: Jan 2008
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RooK
1 of 6
# 1852
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Posted
While I agree that there is not much chance of Bernie turning the US into socialist paradise, regardless of how you view his intended policies, there are many realistic things to suggest that he would be a good candidate.
As already stated, he has a track record of being able to accomplish negotiations and make progress. But further than just that, he is perhaps the least-divisive candidate. I realize that is not saying much considering the current state of US politics, but I still suspect that's not nothing. Bernie's ability to talk to conservatives and say, "we might not agree on much, but let's make progress on what we do agree on" is valuable.
And I do appreciate how his campaign is serving to drag Hillary somewhat left of center. I'm not sure it means anything outside of political showmanship for her, but it does show that she does at least understand progressive ideas.
But whatever. I think Bernie is the more tactically-sound choice for Democratic candidate this election cycle, and I like him a lot... BUT. I hope Hillary wins the nomination. And the presidency.
Why? Partly because I feel like she's the most qualified. Partly because it'll drive a whole bunch of conservative fuck-heads insane. Partly because I have a young daughter and I can't imagine anything more potent to her conceptualization of her potential than to grow into an understanding of the world with a female US president in office.
AAAAHHHH, the delicious contrast of the party nominations. The difficulty of picking between excellent options for Democrats, and watching the train-wreck-in-motion of the Repugnicans finding out which turd floats to the top of their bowl before getting flushed.
Posts: 15274 | From: Portland, Oregon, USA, Earth | Registered: Nov 2001
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Beeswax Altar
Shipmate
# 11644
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Posted
quote:
originally posted by cliffdweller:
Based on what, exactly? Unlike many of those running on the other side of the aisle, his record in Congress suggests he is, in fact, able to get broker deals and get things done.
What is Sanders going to offer the GOP to get single payer healthcare and free college education through congress? This is big progressive stuff. Would you be willing to give the Republicans something equally big in exchange? Would Bernie? I'm guessing no way in hell and I'll tell you why. Climate change is still an issue. Why haven't the Democrats offered the Republicans everything and a bag of chips to save the planet? Because saving the planet is less important than giving the Republicans what it would take to get them to drop their objections to a meaningful climate policy.
Of all the candidates running, Trump has the best chance of enacting most of his agenda. Why? Trump's two big issues are trade and immigration. Many Democrats share Trump's views on trade. Trump should be able to get the bipartisan backing he needs to renegotiate trade deals. Trump can use executive authority to reduce the number of illegal immigrants. I bet he could find Democratic support for reducing the number or increasing the cost of H-1B visas. Outsourcing and insourcing are unpopular with populists on the right and left. Could he get Mexico to pay for a wall? I doubt it. How many Trump voters will be that disillusioned with Mexico doesn't pay for a wall? Not many.
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Losing sleep is something you want to avoid, if possible.
-Og: King of Bashan
Posts: 8411 | From: By a large lake | Registered: Jul 2006
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Beeswax Altar:
What is Sanders going to offer the GOP to get single payer healthcare and free college education through congress? This is big progressive stuff. Would you be willing to give the Republicans something equally big in exchange? Would Bernie? I'm guessing no way in hell and I'll tell you why. Climate change is still an issue. Why haven't the Democrats offered the Republicans everything and a bag of chips to save the planet? Because saving the planet is less important than giving the Republicans what it would take to get them to drop their objections to a meaningful climate policy.
Republican objection to climate change is monetary. As in they, and/or those funding them, benefit financially by ignoring climate change. What could their opponents offer to compensate for that lost revenue? Could offer even more corporate tax breaks and further fuck the economy.
Compromise is working to address the varied concerns.
Compromise isn't I'll concede the B if you'll let me shaft you in the A.
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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Beeswax Altar
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# 11644
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Posted
I'm talking about political reality in Washington D.C. Call it whatever you want. Trump will call it making a deal and he's got more experience at it than Sanders. Hillary could argue that Bill was great at making deals with Republicans. I'm guessing she doesn't want to go there this year.
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Losing sleep is something you want to avoid, if possible.
-Og: King of Bashan
Posts: 8411 | From: By a large lake | Registered: Jul 2006
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Huia
Shipmate
# 3473
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by RooK:
While I agree that there is not much chance of Bernie turning the US into socialist paradise,
There's always hope...
Huia ![[Biased]](wink.gif)
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Charity gives food from the table, Justice gives a place at the table.
Posts: 10382 | From: Te Wai Pounamu | Registered: Oct 2002
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John Holding
Coffee and Cognac
# 158
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Beeswax Altar:
I'm talking about political reality in Washington D.C. Call it whatever you want. Trump will call it making a deal and he's got more experience at it than Sanders. Hillary could argue that Bill was great at making deals with Republicans. I'm guessing she doesn't want to go there this year.
Apropos of what you wrote above, I think you need to change your comment that Trump would get approval to renegotiate trade deals with the implication that all the US has to do is renege and everyone else will go along with this.
Of course he would get approval from the US to renegotiate, but those deals have been signed by a number of countries who -- if the US rips them up, which is what he really means -- will tell the US to take a long walk off a short pier and not bother coming up for air.
Really, really -- and this is not your stance but Trump's -- the US is not the king of the world and behaving as if it is will get him, and the US, nothing good at all.
John
Posts: 5929 | From: Ottawa, Canada | Registered: May 2001
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Beeswax Altar
Shipmate
# 11644
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Posted
I think the U.S. would come out fine in a trade war. We import more than we export. You seem confident that when the rubber meets the road all those countries will hang together. I'm not.
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Losing sleep is something you want to avoid, if possible.
-Og: King of Bashan
Posts: 8411 | From: By a large lake | Registered: Jul 2006
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cliffdweller
Shipmate
# 13338
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Beeswax Altar:
I'm talking about political reality in Washington D.C. Call it whatever you want. Trump will call it making a deal and he's got more experience at it than Sanders.
Not quite. Bernie has 26 years of experience making deals in a divided Congress. Trump has 0.
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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner
Posts: 11242 | From: a small canyon overlooking the city | Registered: Jan 2008
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