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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Elijah's still small voice 1 Kings 19
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venbede
Shipmate
# 16669
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Posted
In the Authorized Version, 1 Kings 19, 11-12 reads:
"11 And he said, Go forth, and stand upon the mount before the Lord. And, behold, the Lord passed by, and a great and strong wind rent the mountains, and brake in pieces the rocks before the Lord; but the Lord was not in the wind: and after the wind an earthquake; but the Lord was not in the earthquake: 12 and after the earthquake a fire; but the Lord was not in the fire: and after the fire a still small voice."
I would like to know about the translation of this still small voice.
In the RSV it was still a still small voice.
In the Message it is a gentle quiet whisper.
In NIV it is a gentle whisper,
In the old Jerusalem it was the sound of a gentle breeze.
But in NRSV it has become a sound of sheer silence.
That’s a very intriguing translation but is it faithful to the Hebrew? Has the NRSV introduced the concept of silence?
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Man was made for joy and woe;
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Adam.
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# 4991
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Posted
The Hebrew is ק֖וֹל דְּמָמָ֥ה דַקָּֽה (qol dmamah daqqah): "the sound (qol) of 'lean' (daqqah) silence (dmamah)"
Qol is a very common word, meaning sound or voice.
The adjective, daq (daqqah here in the feminine) occurs 15 times in the Hebrew Bible. In the Joseph cycle, it refers to "lean cattle" as opposed to "fat cattle." In Exodus, it refers the fineness of the manna. In Leviticus, it can refer to fine hair, finely grained incense, or a dwarf. In Isaiah, it means "fine dust."
The noun dmamah only occurs twice outside of the verse in 1 Kings. In Job 4:16, it refers to something that contrasts with a voice (presumably silence). In Psalm 107:29, it refers to the opposite of a storm (presumably stillness). While the noun is rare, it is closely related to the verb damam which means to be silent or still. This verb is pretty common in Biblical Hebrew and identical to a verb with the same meaning in Akkadian.
There's the philology for you, I'll leave the exegesis to others!
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Preaching blog
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Adam.
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# 4991
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Posted
Well, no-one else has jumped in, so I'll say something exegetically: I think too much has been made of this "sheer silence" (or however we translate it).
Here is vv. 11-12 with 13:
quote:
11 He said, "Go out and stand on the mountain before the LORD, for the LORD is about to pass by." Now there was a great wind, so strong that it was splitting mountains and breaking rocks in pieces before the LORD, but the LORD was not in the wind; and after the wind an earthquake, but the LORD was not in the earthquake;
12 and after the earthquake a fire, but the LORD was not in the fire; and after the fire a sound of sheer silence.
13 When Elijah heard it, he wrapped his face in his mantle and went out and stood at the entrance of the cave. Then there came a voice to him that said, "What are you doing here, Elijah?"
(NRSV)
God is not in the sheer silence! The silence is a signal to Elijah that it's safe to came to the entrance of his cave, as the dangerous accompanying signs of theophany are finished. Once he's come to the entrance, then he hears the voice.
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
But " dangerous accompanying sounds of theophany" suggests God was in the earthquake, storm, etc-- or at least generating it--which is the opposite of what the verse says. That may be why people assume the slience signals the arrival of God.
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Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
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Alan Cresswell
Mad Scientist 先生
# 31
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Posted
The expectation would have been that God was present in the dramatic - in pillars of smoke and fire, thunder and wind, in earthquake, in a burning bush and miraculous deliverance. In a water drenched sacrifice bursting into flame. With a God like that with you, what reason to be afraid?
Yet, Elijah is afraid. He has fled into the wilderness in fear of his life. The people of Israel have rejected God's covenant, destroyed the altars, murdered the prophets. Where was God? Where was the thunder and fire? Where were the armies of angels? Where were the boils, and flies and frogs punishing the enemies of God?
And, there God comes to visit - with all the drama he might have expected. And after all the noise and drama, in that silence that all the more silent because of the noise that it replaces, there is God. The message to Elijah is clear, God is saying "You expect me in the dramatic, and indeed I am there, but when there is no dramatic signs you think I am absent and you are afraid. But here I am, in the silence after the noise. I am always here, always with you, do not be afraid. Go and prophecy in my name".
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
The message to Elijah is clear, God is saying "You expect me in the dramatic, and indeed I am there, but when there is no dramatic signs you think I am absent and you are afraid.
But again, the text makes a big point to say "And the LORD was not in the (dramatic natural event)." Repeats it, even. To me that has always read as something along the lines of,"People look for the power of God in the wrong places."
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
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W Hyatt
Shipmate
# 14250
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Adam.:
God is not in the sheer silence! The silence is a signal to Elijah that it's safe to came to the entrance of his cave, as the dangerous accompanying signs of theophany are finished. Once he's come to the entrance, then he hears the voice.
I like that image because it sounds like it's more faithful to the original - thank you!
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venbede
Shipmate
# 16669
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Posted
Many thanks to Adam for the philology. At the back of my mind is finding Biblical imagery for contemplative prayer. Adam's exegesis rather blows that out of the water.
I'll come back to this in a few days' time.
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Man was made for joy and woe;
And when this we rightly know,
Thro' the world we safely go.
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
Forgive a humble preschool teacher for daring to converse in things theological, but I am still wondering why the phrase " but the LORD was not in [ x] " would be used three times if it wasn't supposed to mean something. Is there something in the Greek that puts a particular spin on this?
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
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balaam
Making an ass of myself
# 4543
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
But " dangerous accompanying sounds of theophany" suggests God was in the earthquake, storm, etc-- or at least generating it--which is the opposite of what the verse says. That may be why people assume the slience signals the arrival of God.
These are theophany as they were the visible signs when Moses was on this mountain receiving the law.
The importance is that the signs that signified the presence of God to Moses do not repeat here. God is absent when the signs appear. God is doing something new here.
God can be present in storms and in stillness.
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Baptist Trainfan
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# 15128
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Posted
Well, it's OT so it's Hebrew rather than Greek ...
What I find interesting is that God is not IN the earthquake, wind and fire (i.e. no communication with Elijah takes place at these times); but that he clearly seems to SEND these phenomena in order to prepare the ground for his eventual encounter.
(Cross-posted with Balaam).
[ 27. February 2016, 09:30: Message edited by: Baptist Trainfan ]
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Alan Cresswell
Mad Scientist 先生
# 31
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
The message to Elijah is clear, God is saying "You expect me in the dramatic, and indeed I am there, but when there is no dramatic signs you think I am absent and you are afraid.
But again, the text makes a big point to say "And the LORD was not in the (dramatic natural event)." Repeats it, even. To me that has always read as something along the lines of,"People look for the power of God in the wrong places."
Yes, the text says God was not there. Though I'm not sure if that was He wasn't there (how can God not be somewhere?) or that Elijah did not experience God through those things?
I think it's more if you expect the power and word of God to only be present in one place (or, a small group of places) then not only will you fail to experience Him elsewhere you will not experience Him even where you expect Him to be.
If we only expect to encounter God within our church buildings and services then eventually we will find that we're not encountering God there. If we only expect to encounter God in a charismatic tongues and prophecy fest then eventually we will go through the motions but they are empty of God. If we only expect to encounter God in silent contemplation, in service to others, in whatever ... eventually we will find we don't encounter Him there.
None of which says God isn't there, but He can be present and unobserved even by those looking for Him.
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agingjb
Shipmate
# 16555
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Posted
Who first used "still small voice"? The King James scholars, or earlier. I would have assumed Tyndale, except that as far as I know Tyndale didn't translate 1 Kings.
Coverdale has "styll softe hyssinge"
Douay Rheims has "a whistling of a gentle air"
Wycliffe has "the issyng of thinne wynd"
But Bishop's (1568) has: "small still voyce"
and Geneva (1587) has: "still and soft voyce"
some more:
New English Bible: "a low murmuring sound"
Revised English Bible: "a faint murmuring sound"
Knox: "the whisper of a gentle breeze"
(sorry if I've repeated some earlier examples)
Anyway my point, such as it is, is that "still small voice" has, whatever its merits as a translation, become, for me at least, the memorable phrase.
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Adam.
Like as the
# 4991
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Posted
My exegesis is dependent on Richard Nelson's commentary in the Interpretation series. I was giving the argument (well, just the conclusion really) from memory, but now I've pulled out my commentary and let me try to summarize. This is definitely not the reading of the text I 'grew up on.' Things in "quote marks" are direct quotes from Nelson, pp. 124-25 for those playing along at home.
Vv. 11-12a "use the traditional language of theophany, the natural events that heralded the coming of Y''* in war and worship: storm (Ps 18:12-14; Nah 1:3b); earthquake (Judg 5:5; Ps 68:8; Nah 1:5); fire (Isa 30:27)"
God is not 'in' these things, which should be expected: Jewish piety separated the divine presence from its outward manifestations. But, God is not completely absent. God's 'passing' is imminent, and the splitting of rocks happens 'before God.'
"The unwary reader tends to assume that, in contrast to the first three theophanic manifestations, God is really meant to present in the enigmatic small voice." But, nothing is said about God's presence here. There is no association triggered, so there is no need to deny it.
Nelson' conclusion: "The 'still small voice' is thus nothing more than a signal that the theophanic excitement is over and the Elijah can emerge so that God can try something else."
--
* Nelson is comfortable writing out the divine name with vowels. I prefer not to, even when quoting him
[ 27. February 2016, 14:25: Message edited by: Adam. ]
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
I have often heard this text as a justification for contemplative prayer or meditation also. I don't think Adam's explanation completely takes that away, but I do think it is an interesting take on it.
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Adam.
Like as the
# 4991
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by LeRoc:
I don't think Adam's explanation completely takes that away, but I do think it is an interesting take on it.
And I don't think that either! Let me be clear that I promote and practice contemplative prayer. I appreciate that some of you are probably in ecclesial contexts were you have to defend the "biblical basis" of contemplative prayer. My context doesn't demand that of me in the same way.
I'm not sure if this is the text to use, to be honest. But if we do, it should be something about the potential for silence to invite us to seek God's presence, as this seems to be what is happening with Elijah.
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Ave Crux, Spes Unica!
Preaching blog
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
quote:
Adam.: I appreciate that some of you are probably in ecclesial contexts were you have to defend the "biblical basis" of contemplative prayer.
Not really. I'm from an ecclesial context where "hey guys, I brought incense!" is more than sufficient defence for contemplative prayer ![[Smile]](smile.gif) However, I'm still interested in how it ties into the Bible.
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
There is something paradoxical about the phrase "sound of silence." But whatever it means, it doesn't mean "noise." "Voice of lean silence" could be a similar kind of idea -- a poetic way of just saying, "silence."
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
quote:
mousethief: There is something paradoxical about the phrase "sound of silence."
Someone should write a song about it!
(C'mon, it had to be said )
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by LeRoc:
quote:
mousethief: There is something paradoxical about the phrase "sound of silence."
Someone should write a song about it!
(C'mon, it had to be said )
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
(I've tried to look up whether Paul Simon explicitly used this verse as an inspiration when he wrote the song. I haven't found anything definitive yet.)
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by LeRoc:
(I've tried to look up whether Paul Simon explicitly used this verse as an inspiration when he wrote the song. I haven't found anything definitive yet.)
But my words like silent raindrops fell
And echoed in the argument from silence....
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
![[Overused]](graemlins/notworthy.gif)
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
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venbede
Shipmate
# 16669
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Adam.:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by LeRoc:
[qb] But if we do, it should be something about the potential for silence to invite us to seek God's presence, as this seems to be what is happening with Elijah.
I;m sure The Cloud of Unknowing, the Philokalia, John Main and all would agree that in a sense God is not "in" the silence, God is beyond any human concept, including that of silence is it is seen as a concept in its own right rather than a lack of other concepts.
The really interesting thing is that only the NRSV mentions silence. Have the other translations just chickened out?
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Man was made for joy and woe;
And when this we rightly know,
Thro' the world we safely go.
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venbede
Shipmate
# 16669
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Posted
My typing was terrible. My grammer wasn't too hot either.
Sorry.
For contemplatives God is beyond concepts, so silence is a preparation for prayer, not the object of prayer.
In my ecclesial context you don't seem to need a Biblical text to justify anything. But it's nice when you come across something that does.
Now press the preview button.
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Man was made for joy and woe;
And when this we rightly know,
Thro' the world we safely go.
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venbede
Shipmate
# 16669
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by LeRoc:
(I've tried to look up whether Paul Simon explicitly used this verse as an inspiration when he wrote the song. I haven't found anything definitive yet.)
Especially as no translation available at the time used that term. More likely the NRSV pinched it from Paul Simon.
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Man was made for joy and woe;
And when this we rightly know,
Thro' the world we safely go.
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Nick Tamen
Ship's Wayfaring Fool
# 15164
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by venbede:
quote:
Originally posted by LeRoc:
(I've tried to look up whether Paul Simon explicitly used this verse as an inspiration when he wrote the song. I haven't found anything definitive yet.)
Especially as no translation available at the time used that term. More likely the NRSV pinched it from Paul Simon.
Or, based on the Hebrew laid out by Adam., the NRSV translated the Hebrew more accurately than previous translations.
[ 27. February 2016, 15:51: Message edited by: Nick Tamen ]
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The first thing God says to Moses is, "Take off your shoes." We are on holy ground. Hard to believe, but the truest thing I know. — Anne Lamott
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
Or perhaps Paul Simon and the Deuteronomist independently came to the same phrase. It must be meaningful then.
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
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Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128
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Posted
Of course, the American composer John Cage notably wrote a piece consisting of the sound of silence - all 4 minutes 33 seconds of it. Nothing to do with Paul Simon though!
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venbede
Shipmate
# 16669
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by LeRoc:
Or perhaps Paul Simon and the Deuteronomist independently came to the same phrase. It must be meaningful then.
The sound of (something) silence is a contradiction in terms, a tautology. It is either a profound insight or pretentious gobbledygook.
I incline to profundity. I see it as the awareness of God that comes beyond concepts - the silence speaks.
There's plenty of precedent in the NT for using OT texts to illuminate Christian faith in ways the original author never intended.
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Man was made for joy and woe;
And when this we rightly know,
Thro' the world we safely go.
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
quote:
venbede: The sound of (something) silence is a contradiction in terms, a tautology.
I thought it was an oxymoron?
quote:
venbede: It is either a profound insight or pretentious gobbledygook.
I tend to miss the distinction after my second joint.
But yeah, I lean towards profundity also.
quote:
venbede: There's plenty of precedent in the NT for using OT texts to illuminate Christian faith in ways the original author never intended.
True.
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
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balaam
Making an ass of myself
# 4543
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
quote:
Originally posted by LeRoc:
(I've tried to look up whether Paul Simon explicitly used this verse as an inspiration when he wrote the song. I haven't found anything definitive yet.)
But my words like silent raindrops fell
And echoed in the argument from silence....
The words of the prophet are written on the subway walls and tenement halls.
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Posts: 9049 | From: Hen Ogledd | Registered: May 2003
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Nick Tamen
Ship's Wayfaring Fool
# 15164
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by LeRoc:
Or perhaps Paul Simon and the Deuteronomist independently came to the same phrase. It must be meaningful then.
God moves in mysterious ways.
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The first thing God says to Moses is, "Take off your shoes." We are on holy ground. Hard to believe, but the truest thing I know. — Anne Lamott
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Nick Tamen:
quote:
Originally posted by LeRoc:
Or perhaps Paul Simon and the Deuteronomist independently came to the same phrase. It must be meaningful then.
God moves in mysterious ways.
Kinda like neon.
quote:
Originally posted by venbede:
quote:
Originally posted by LeRoc:
Or perhaps Paul Simon and the Deuteronomist independently came to the same phrase. It must be meaningful then.
The sound of (something) silence is a contradiction in terms, a tautology.
"Contradiction" and "tautology" mean exactly the opposite. A contradiction cannot be true. A tautology cannot be false.
quote:
It is either a profound insight or pretentious gobbledygook.
Or, you know, poetry. Poetry can be profound or merely banal. (or 100 points in between). I think it's just a fancy way of saying "really strikingly silent silence after all that noise." But your point is not a bad one.
quote:
Originally posted by venbede:
The really interesting thing is that only the NRSV mentions silence. Have the other translations just chickened out?
But it's not the only one that mentions silence. One of the oldest meanings of "still" is "silent." We're mislead by viewing the KJV through modern definitions, forgetting the senses it would have had at the time it was written. (Shadows of St. Clive's "Studies in Words".)
Although it's somewhat archaic, we are all familiar with the phrase "be still" which you might say to your child if they are making noise when they shouldn't be. Even if they're holding all parts but their jaw and larynx immobile. "Still" means "quiet."
Stille Nacht, heilige Nacht .....
It's still in German, too. (SWIDT?)
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
quote:
Nick Tamen: God moves in mysterious ways.
That's U2.
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
quote:
mousethief: One of the oldest meanings of "still" is "silent."
But does still mean something else now, or is still still still?
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by LeRoc:
quote:
mousethief: One of the oldest meanings of "still" is "silent."
But does still mean something else now, or is still still still?
Where meek souls still receive "still,"
still the still "still" enters in.
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balaam
Making an ass of myself
# 4543
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by LeRoc:
Or perhaps Paul Simon and the Deuteronomist independently came to the same phrase. It must be meaningful then.
Paul Simon is Jewish, this is not the only time he has used Old Testament imagery in his songs.
I thing his song mentioning visions and prophesy within the sound of silence is significant. I could even help us to understand the text. Seriously.
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
Also Catholic imagery. And more paradoxical silence here, too:
And the train is gone suddenly
On wheels clicking silently
Like a gently-tapping litany
And he holds his crayon rosary
tighter in his hand
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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Mamacita
Lakefront liberal
# 3659
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Posted
Dang, mousethief, you made me look that one up. And to think I had the album!
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Do not be daunted by the enormity of the world’s grief. Do justly, now. Love mercy, now. Walk humbly, now. You are not obligated to complete the work, but neither are you free to abandon it.
Posts: 20761 | From: where the purple line ends | Registered: Dec 2002
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venbede
Shipmate
# 16669
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Posted
A The Common Jewish Bible has "a quiet, subdued voice" again not mentioning silence.
B Thank you very much, Mousethief, for pointing out "still voice" can mean "silent voice".
C Oxymoron, not tautology of course. I'll go and hide in a cave.
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Man was made for joy and woe;
And when this we rightly know,
Thro' the world we safely go.
Posts: 3201 | From: An historic market town nestling in the folds of Surrey's rolling North Downs, | Registered: Sep 2011
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agingjb
Shipmate
# 16555
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Posted
I regret the apparent loss of significance of the exact phrase "the still small voice"; but perhaps "the poetry does not matter..
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Refraction Villanelles
Posts: 464 | From: Southern England | Registered: Jul 2011
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
quote:
venbede: Oxymoron, not tautology of course. I'll go and hide in a cave.
As long as it's a roofless cave
I've been trying to find the phrase in modern English that comes closest to the philology that Adam gave. So far, I've come up with "the sound of small quietude". Would that work?
I was also wondering if there are any more slightly oxymoronic phrases like this one in the Bible.
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
Posts: 9474 | From: Brazil / Africa | Registered: Aug 2002
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
Hmm, thinking a bit more. I like quietude; it's a bit less oxymoronic than silence. But I want to bring this aspect of 'thinness' in.
The sound of meager quietude?
The sound of slender quietude?
Some of these have a poetic ring to them that I rather like.
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
Posts: 9474 | From: Brazil / Africa | Registered: Aug 2002
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leo
Shipmate
# 1458
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by venbede:
quote:
Originally posted by LeRoc:
Or perhaps Paul Simon and the Deuteronomist independently came to the same phrase. It must be meaningful then.
The sound of (something) silence is a contradiction in terms, a tautology. It is either a profound insight or pretentious gobbledygook.
Speak with someone who has spent the night in the desert.
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My Jewish-positive lectionary blog is at http://recognisingjewishrootsinthelectionary.wordpress.com/
My reviews at http://layreadersbookreviews.wordpress.com
Posts: 23198 | From: Bristol | Registered: Oct 2001
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by venbede:
I'll go and hide in a cave.
You have a prophet complex. ![[Biased]](wink.gif) It's not shameful, but nothing to crow about either.
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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Nick Tamen
Ship's Wayfaring Fool
# 15164
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
quote:
Originally posted by venbede:
I'll go and hide in a cave.
You have a prophet complex. It's not shameful, but nothing to crow about either.
Unlike a Peter Pan complex.
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The first thing God says to Moses is, "Take off your shoes." We are on holy ground. Hard to believe, but the truest thing I know. — Anne Lamott
Posts: 2833 | From: On heaven-crammed earth | Registered: Sep 2009
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Alan Cresswell
Mad Scientist 先生
# 31
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Adam.:
quote:
Originally posted by LeRoc:
I don't think Adam's explanation completely takes that away, but I do think it is an interesting take on it.
And I don't think that either! Let me be clear that I promote and practice contemplative prayer. I appreciate that some of you are probably in ecclesial contexts were you have to defend the "biblical basis" of contemplative prayer. My context doesn't demand that of me in the same way.
I'm not sure if this is the text to use, to be honest. But if we do, it should be something about the potential for silence to invite us to seek God's presence, as this seems to be what is happening with Elijah.
Sorry to come this far back up the thread, but something has been at the back of my mind since this part of the discussion. And, I think it's finally resolved into something I can express.
I was having a difficult time relating this passage to contemplative prayer at all. I think my problem is that I tend to view contemplative prayer or worship as us shutting out the noise of life to better hear the voice of God. Elijah has done that in one sense, he's in a cave in the wilderness away from all the distractions of people. In another sense he hasn't - it's clear that his mind is full of how the people of Israel have turned from God and killed the prophets, that he alone is left and they want to kill him too.
But, mostly my failure to connect the passage with contemplation is that Elijah, the potential contemplative, isn't the one who comes to God in quietness. It's God who comes to him in quietness.
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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.
Posts: 32413 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
Exactly.
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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Adam.
Like as the
# 4991
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Posted
Totally agree with your second paragraph, Alan.
And kind of with your last one. But kind of not. Definitely agree: it's God's quietness, not Elijah's; and God's coming is far more important than our coming. But, Elijah does come to the edge of the cave, and that's something.
It may not seem very bold compared with some of the things he's already done, but there is a daring in his coming to the edge of his cave. It's wonderfully comforting, to me at least, that when we come just to the edge of our caves, with our faces still bound, we discover God has bounded towards us. It's like the 'prodigal' son: when he nervously trudges to his father's house he finds the truly prodigal father running with abandon towards him. But he does trudge, and that matters.
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Ave Crux, Spes Unica!
Preaching blog
Posts: 8164 | From: Notre Dame, IN | Registered: Sep 2003
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