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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: lack of healing and hope
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Zoey
Broken idealist
# 11152
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Posted
My GP records start with three markers for long-term or permanent conditions – one physical health problem, two conditions related to how my mind functions – all three conditions causing me some difficulties in my life day-to-day, week-to-week, year-to-year. I have zero expectation that I will be healed of any of these conditions this side of heaven. (I also have little or no conception of heaven, whether heaven is real, what will happen to me when I die, etc.)
There’s a bit in the Eucharist / communion service, which in RC churches is now: “Lord, I am not worthy that you should enter under my roof, but only say the word and my soul shall be healed”.
I think my view is that one’s mind and one’s soul are linked but nevertheless distinct entities. I’m finding working out the implications of this problematic both in general terms and for myself personally.
I think it’s fairly easy to conceive of a person who is severely physically impaired or unwell but has a healthy soul (showing fruits of the spirit such as joy, peace, patience, generosity, etc). Ditto a person with a profound learning disability / substantial cognitive impairment.
But conditions of the mind which aren’t about intellectual ability – those which are about our emotional states, our behavioural responses to the world, how we relate to other people, etc – (examples of such conditions including, but not necessarily limited to: mental-health conditions, drug and alcohol addictions, autistic spectrum conditions, dementias, various other neurological conditions) – can they not sometimes be so close to the antithesis of the fruits of the spirit that it may be impossible for an individual significantly affected by them to have a soul which is in any way healthy? I‘ve realised, while composing this post, that this question might come across as being offensive. I suppose I’m not asking it about anybody other than myself. My reason for asking it is that 2 of my 3 long-term / permanent conditions are in this category and it feels to me as though, by definition, they make it pretty damn unlikely for my soul to be “healed” (this side of heaven).
Another difficulty is this. I think there are reasonable grounds to believe that if I were ever to meet somebody with whom I could form a good-enough marriage, this would probably significantly improve my emotional and social functioning and health. However, for various reasons, I think the chances of this happening are very small. Which leads on to the following thoughts. God either isn’t very interventionist on this and/or God doesn’t think the best thing is for there to be any realistic prospect of me marrying anytime in the foreseeable future. So does this mean that despite the argument a good-enough marriage would improve my emotional health, it is not the best thing for my spiritual health? If so, how on earth does one square emotional health and spiritual health being so apparently opposed like that? Moreover, given that I’m a grumpy, anti-social sod who generally finds life somewhere between ‘fairly difficult’ and ‘intolerable’, how on earth am I meant to grow spiritually or show any evidence of any fruits of the spirit? I think I don’t expect my soul to be healed – does this mean I’m just stuck spiritually?
I considered posting this in Purg rather than All Saints. I have gone for All Saints because I think there are some Shippies who read and contribute to All Saints more often than Purg whose contributions on this subject might be helpful and insightful, however I am looking for analytical discussion about the issues raised, *not* votives and hugs.
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Pay no mind, I'm doing fine, I'm breathing on my own.
Posts: 3095 | From: the penultimate stop? | Registered: Mar 2006
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Jengie jon
Semper Reformanda
# 273
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Posted
Zoey
In many ways, your post needs a more considered response than I can do this evening but equally something odd happened this evening that relates to it
I am going to take the relevant part:
quote:
There’s a bit in the Eucharist / communion service, which in RC churches is now: “Lord, I am not worthy that you should enter under my roof, but only say the word and my soul shall be healed”.
I was at an evening Eucharist today where that was used. I am aware of the complexities of the phrase but I found myself praying
quote:
“Lord, we are not worthy that you should enter under our roof, but only say the word and we shall be healed”.
For me in so doing it became a prayer for the Church, for our brokenness and sinfulness in it and for the need for all in the Church to receive Christ's love.
This for me as someone who struggles with Christian healing for reasons that are similar but slightly different gave a place of entry into that prayer.
Jengie
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"To violate a persons ability to distinguish fact from fantasy is the epistemological equivalent of rape." Noretta Koertge
Back to my blog
Posts: 20894 | From: city of steel, butterflies and rainbows | Registered: May 2001
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Banner Lady
Ship's Ensign
# 10505
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Posted
I agree: reality often sucks. Tomorrow I get to do morning prayer with an elderly group of dying people. They are not a cheerful bunch, resting in " the Peace that passes all understanding", but a group of broken, decaying, often crotchety old women who mostly wish death would come for them soon.
I love being with them. Not because they have the faith thing all worked out, or are wonderful encouragers of each other -but because they are exactly the opposite yet turn up every week anyway.
Their lives are not a valiant battle but a long suffering groan as bit by bit their bodies give out and they slowly succumb to the power of whatever illness is invading body and mind.
But somehow together we stand in front of the tsunami and find strength in the ageless words that speak to our spirits.
The reading from the book of Joel that I will use tomorrow is for Ash Wednesday:
"Let all the inhabitants of the land tremble, for the day of the Lord is coming, it is near...a day of darkness and gloom, a day of clouds and thick darkness! Like blackness spread upon the mountains a great and powerful army comes; their like has never been from of old, nor will be again after them in ages to come. Yet even now, says the Lord, return to the Lord, your God, for he is gracious and merciful, slow to anger, and abounding in steadfast love...."
And then we praise the Lord anyway. And go on determining to look for whatever chinks of Light we can see around us each day until we meet again. If we meet again.
Glad you popped in here Zoey.
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Women in the church are not a problem to be solved, but a mystery to be enjoyed.
Posts: 7080 | From: Canberra Australia | Registered: Oct 2005
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Welease Woderwick
Sister Incubus Nightmare
# 10424
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Posted
20 years ago, or very nearly, when I was having my last [and hopefully final] breakdown I took great comfort from the line:
Blessed are the cracked for they shall let in light
I have no answers and I somehow distrust those that say they do BUT I have come through many years of social work - sure I'm not unscathed but I was there - and now many years of the life beyond and one of the huge constants in that is change. I've changed, the world has changed - and it will continue to change - and it will be okay.
There is a lovely line in the movie The Best Exotic Marigold Hotel where the hotel manager says:
quote:
Everything will be all right in the end, and if everything is not all right then it is not the end.
I have a very woolly idea of God and I get very angry with God sometimes...
...but I love the sense of humour!
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I give thanks for unknown blessings already on their way.
Fancy a break in South India?
Accessible Homestay Guesthouse in Central Kerala, contact me for details
What part of Matt. 7:1 don't you understand?
Posts: 48139 | From: 1st on the right, straight on 'til morning | Registered: Sep 2005
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Piglet
Islander
# 11803
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Posted
I rather like the Exotic Marigold Hotel bloke's philosophy. Perhaps Julian of Norwich had the same sort of idea:
quote:
All shall be well, and all shall be well and all manner of thing shall be well.
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I may not be on an island any more, but I'm still an islander.
alto n a soprano who can read music
Posts: 20272 | From: Fredericton, NB, on a rather larger piece of rock | Registered: Sep 2006
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
Zoe--
Thanks for being specific about what you want/need from us. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Corrie ten Boom wrote a book about doing religious work with people with developmental disabilities. The mind vs. soul question came up. Corrie quoted a nun who said something like "Why would anyone think that the soul is limited by the mind?"
FWIW.
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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Stercus Tauri
Shipmate
# 16668
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Posted
Advice that came from a very experienced minister is that when we pray, we need to know the difference between healing and curing. That sounds simplistic almost to the point of triteness, but it has helped me in difficult times. I know the cancer may not be cured - even if it's lying low for now and may stay that way - but that doesn't prevent a sense of spiritual healing and peace with life. We are still whole people despite the physical and emotional changes that we are stuck with. I am not sure if I have expressed that well or if I shall always be able to say it, but for now, it seems to work.
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Thay haif said. Quhat say thay, Lat thame say (George Keith, 5th Earl Marischal)
Posts: 905 | From: On the traditional lands of the Six Nations. | Registered: Sep 2011
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
ST--
I read something similar about people who made a pilgrimage to Lourdes to be cured/healed. Some were reportedly cured. Others developed the kind of healing peace you mentioned. I don't know if there was anyone with no positive reaction, or with a negative one.
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528
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Posted
My grandmother had Alzheimer's for several years before her death, so I spent a lot of time thinking about this stuff. And I've come to the conclusion that not all of a person's emotions are part of the spirit (I'm going to use this term for simplicity, to mean the invisible eternal part of a person). Some emotions derive mainly or wholly from the body. So a brain injury will produce emotions (and resulting actions) that really can't be credited to the spirit at all. Or blamed on it, either.
I think of the invisible part of a human being as being sort of like an onion. The innermost parts are what I'm calling spirit; they last after death. The outer layers of the onion are emotions, beliefs, etc. that derive from the body and fall away at death. That would include (for example) rages inspired by Alzheimer's; calm and peace inspired by nothing more than a good digestion; and probably a lot of stuff during extremes of bipolar episodes.
I really, truly don't think that those outer onion layer things affect the spirit at all; they are stuff that happens to you more than stuff that you choose to do, and so I don't think it leaves a mark on the spirit/soul. So if you've got an old lady who showed a beautiful spirit all her life and then turned into a foul-mouthed violent bitch as a result of dementia, I really think that last stuff is happening to her, not something she's actively doing; and I don't think it changes the state of her spirit at all. It sucks to have bad biochemistry (I do) but that's just outer onion skins and will fall away someday.
Why do I think this? Part of it's just because I can't imagine God being so incredibly unjust as to hold people to account for what they didn't choose and can't help. But part of it is because of stuff I've witnessed--like the minutes when the dementia suddenly lifts for no reason that I can see, and Grandma is her old self again. If there really WAS soul/spirit damage, I don't see how that could happen. But if the soul/spirit remains the same and only the outer covering gets messed up, then it's easy for me to see how that might get swept aside for a moment or two (just long enough to see the true self) before the darkness comes back again.
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Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!
Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004
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Huia
Shipmate
# 3473
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Posted
Lamb Chopped thank you for that. I have a brother with Parkinson's and what you have written was vey helpful.
Huia
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Charity gives food from the table, Justice gives a place at the table.
Posts: 10382 | From: Te Wai Pounamu | Registered: Oct 2002
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Tobias
Shipmate
# 18613
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Posted
This is a question I have been thinking about for a long time: several of the things Zoey has said in the original post are true of me also. I've started writing a response three or four times but haven't been able to get it right.
I agree absolutely with what Lamb Chopped has written. It was the main point that I wanted to make but which I couldn't work out how to say. Thank you for putting it so well, LC!
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Vocatus atque non vocatus, Deus aderit.
Posts: 269 | From: Terra Australis Incognita | Registered: Jul 2016
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
We all can have a Companion and some comfort on the journey. Which is the worst case scenario. I think a lot of us live in the worst case scenario.
The healing, heaven, and everything else is about hope I think, some true, some false, some indeterminate. Many get more mileage out it than I.
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Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
\_(ツ)_/
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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