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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: CofE Readers' collars
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Albertus
Shipmate
# 13356
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Posted
I came across a reference the other day, from the 1950s, to CofE Readers having the option of wearing a black (presumably pseudo-clerical?) collar. I'd never heard of this before: has aanyone else? Anyone got pictures?
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Spike
Mostly Harmless
# 36
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Posted
Where was this reference? I wonder if it's specific to a particular diocese as there was no standard dress for Readers across the Church of England until the blue scarf was introduced in the 1960s. Before that, what Readers wore depended on which diocese they were licensed to.
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"May you get to heaven before the devil knows you're dead" - Irish blessing
Posts: 12860 | From: The Valley of Crocuses | Registered: May 2001
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ElaineC
Shipmate
# 12244
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Posted
When I had my cassock made I had the option of having an open or a closed neck. I chose to have the neck closed.
Here we are in the crypt of Rochester Cathedral waiting for the start of our Licensing service. You might just see the difference. (I'm at the front on the right)
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Albertus
Shipmate
# 13356
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Spike:
Where was this reference? I wonder if it's specific to a particular diocese as there was no standard dress for Readers across the Church of England until the blue scarf was introduced in the 1960s. Before that, what Readers wore depended on which diocese they were licensed to.
It was in a Church Assembly debate, noting that as you say there was no standard dress at that time: some wore badges, some scarves, and then some apparently a collar of 'funereal black'. I suppose it might have meant, as Elaine suggests, a cassock with closed neck, but the reference was definitely to a collar.
[ 28. March 2015, 08:51: Message edited by: Albertus ]
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Corvo
Shipmate
# 15220
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Albertus:
I came across a reference the other day, from the 1950s, to CofE Readers having the option of wearing a black (presumably pseudo-clerical?) collar. . . .
We used to have a Reader (now RIP), who must have been first licensed in the 1960s, who wore a black shirt and a selection of (sober) ties. I wonder if this is what was meant rather than a black clerical collar.
In the 1950s many men still wore detachable collars. I remember my father would refer to the colour of his shirt by describing the collar, as in 'white collar' and 'blue collar' worker. Maybe Readers were being identified as 'black collar' workers ('black shirt' wouldn't have sounded appropriate).
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Spike
Mostly Harmless
# 36
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Posted
That sounds feasible. I also wonder whether it may be something akin to the collars some choirs wear with their robes.
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"May you get to heaven before the devil knows you're dead" - Irish blessing
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Corvo
Shipmate
# 15220
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Posted
There's a kind of parallel with members of the Iona Community who wear (used to wear?) dark blue shirts, laymen with a tie, clerics with the bit of white plastic.
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Oscar the Grouch
Adopted Cascadian
# 1916
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by leo:
I am soon to be ordering a new cassock - my present one is 40 years old!
Only 40? Tsah!
I rarely wear a cassock these days (being a cassock alb kinda guy) but I got my cassock second hand when I was first ordained. My mother-in-law then refurbished it for me. It's not entirely clear how old it is, but we estimate that it must be a good 50-60 years old.
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Faradiu, dundeibáwa weyu lárigi weyu
Posts: 3871 | From: Gamma Quadrant, just to the left of Galifrey | Registered: Dec 2001
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Spike
Mostly Harmless
# 36
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Oscar the Grouch:
I rarely wear a cassock these days (being a cassock alb kinda guy)
HERETIC!!! ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
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"May you get to heaven before the devil knows you're dead" - Irish blessing
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Oscar the Grouch
Adopted Cascadian
# 1916
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Spike:
quote:
Originally posted by Oscar the Grouch:
I rarely wear a cassock these days (being a cassock alb kinda guy)
HERETIC!!!
Guilty as charged, m'lud.
Wanna make something of it? ![[Devil]](graemlins/devil.gif)
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Faradiu, dundeibáwa weyu lárigi weyu
Posts: 3871 | From: Gamma Quadrant, just to the left of Galifrey | Registered: Dec 2001
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leo
Shipmate
# 1458
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Oscar the Grouch:
quote:
Originally posted by leo:
I am soon to be ordering a new cassock - my present one is 40 years old!
Only 40? Tsah!
I rarely wear a cassock these days (being a cassock alb kinda guy)
Same here but need cassock with surplice for choral evensongs and any big do's at the cathederal e.g. Chrism mass, admittance & licensing of readers.
[ 29. March 2015, 17:04: Message edited by: leo ]
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My reviews at http://layreadersbookreviews.wordpress.com
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Albertus
Shipmate
# 13356
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Oscar the Grouch:
quote:
Originally posted by Spike:
quote:
Originally posted by Oscar the Grouch:
I rarely wear a cassock these days (being a cassock alb kinda guy)
HERETIC!!!
Guilty as charged, m'lud.
Wanna make something of it?
Take him on, Spike. Anyone who wears a cassock alb is going to be a pushover. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
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TonyK
Host Emeritus
# 35
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Albertus:
quote:
Originally posted by Oscar the Grouch:
quote:
Originally posted by Spike:
quote:
Originally posted by Oscar the Grouch:
I rarely wear a cassock these days (being a cassock alb kinda guy)
HERETIC!!!
Guilty as charged, m'lud.
Wanna make something of it?
Take him on, Spike. Anyone who wears a cassock alb is going to be a pushover.
He might have support from unexpected quarters (though I only wear a cassock-alb for Eucharistic services - otherwise cassock and surplice)
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Yours aye ... TonyK
Posts: 2717 | From: Gloucestershire | Registered: May 2001
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Albertus
Shipmate
# 13356
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Posted
According to the 1950s source I mentioned in the OP, where readers then were allowed to wear scarves, they had to be of a colour which would not be confused with a priest's scarf or stole and did not have any liturgical significance. As a rule, in the CofE blue is not one of the liturgical colours, so presumably it was chosen because it was more dignified than, what, brown or orange. Grey might have worked, I suppose.
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Enoch
Shipmate
# 14322
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Posted
Lay Readers wear cassock, surplice and a blue scarf. They just do. That's it. Nobody else does. They don't wear a clerical collar. Priests wear a black scarf or a stole which is never blue. Deacons wear a black scarf or a stole. If they wear a stole it goes over one shoulder and clipped or tied at the side.
What do Readers wear in other countries? Don't they wear the same, or do other countries not have them?
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Offeiriad
Ship's Arboriculturalist
# 14031
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Albertus:
Grey might have worked, I suppose.
Grey was used in some dioceses into my living memory, but blue won the popularity contest.
Posts: 1426 | From: La France profonde | Registered: Aug 2008
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Albertus
Shipmate
# 13356
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Posted
Ah, not a bad guess, then!
BTW ISTR deaconesses wearing cassocks in a sort of reader blue. Was that a standard thing, or was it just that the two in our town happened to choose the same colour?
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My beard is a testament to my masculinity and virility, and demonstrates that I am a real man. Trouble is, bits of quiche sometimes get caught in it.
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Spike
Mostly Harmless
# 36
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Enoch:
Priests wear a black scarf or a stole which is never blue.
I've seen priests in blue stoles for feasts of Our Lady
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"May you get to heaven before the devil knows you're dead" - Irish blessing
Posts: 12860 | From: The Valley of Crocuses | Registered: May 2001
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Spike
Mostly Harmless
# 36
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Offeiriad:
quote:
Originally posted by Albertus:
Grey might have worked, I suppose.
Grey was used in some dioceses into my living memory, but blue won the popularity contest.
I may be wrong, but I've a feeling Readers on the Isle of Man wear grey scarves
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"May you get to heaven before the devil knows you're dead" - Irish blessing
Posts: 12860 | From: The Valley of Crocuses | Registered: May 2001
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Albertus
Shipmate
# 13356
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Posted
Yes, but blue for Advent or feasts of Our Lady is rather a minority thing here, and I'd guess was even more so in the 50s and 60s.
Isle of Man- all in blue here. A pity really because I think a dark steel or graphite would look rather smart and elegantly austere.
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Jengie jon
Semper Reformanda
# 273
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Albertus:
Ah, not a bad guess, then!
BTW ISTR deaconesses wearing cassocks in a sort of reader blue. Was that a standard thing, or was it just that the two in our town happened to choose the same colour?
Deaconnesses often wear blue but these are deaconesses in the sense of belonging to a order that is part of Diakonia.
Jengie
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