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Source: (consider it) Thread: UK National Bird?
Jengie jon

Semper Reformanda
# 273

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The UK does not have a national bird. In 1966 the favourite bird to be our national bird was the Robin but nothing has been done about it since.

The Vote National Bird lists 10 possible options
  • barn owl
  • blackbird
  • blue tit
  • hen harrier
  • kingfisher
  • mute swan
  • puffin
  • red kite
  • robin
  • wren

but all you can do on that site is vote. Here on this thread you can give your reason for selecting that bird or even choose one not on the list.

I suspect the robin would still get my vote as they are common and popular birds but I do wonder if for a group of Islands where the sea forms such part of our identity whether the puffin might be better. Especially with the current political climate which rather suggests that spending the winter fishing in the north Atlantic might be better than being this close to Europe.

Jengie

p.s. I do not think that site is limited to UK residents. So if people who are not resident want to join in please do. It may help ups to "see ourselves as others see us"

[ 11. April 2015, 12:26: Message edited by: Jengie jon ]

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Alan Cresswell

Mad Scientist 先生
# 31

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We have several national flowers in the UK (though, no UK national flower). Why have just one bird?

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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.

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crunt
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I'd go with swan, because of the relationship the crown has with swans (don't they all 'belong' to the queen, or something?).

Even though it's not an option; I'd also like to give my second choice to the raven / crow, because of their iconic place in the Tower, as well as their intelligence, and also because of their link with my hometown in south Wales (Valley of the Crow).

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Dafyd
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# 5549

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The robin: aggressive, bold, and sings beautifully.

Blue tits are more charming but just don't seem to chime with any reasonable construction of the national character.
The birds I see most often in the garden are great tits and woodpigeons.

What really does one want out of a national bird? To reflect the nation's idea of itself? To be most liked? To be the most common? or common indigenous? or endemic?

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balaam

Making an ass of myself
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No starlings in the list? A cloud of starlings coming in to roost are a wonderful site (or sight, or both).

And you can teach them tunes. We had one which would roost and sing in a tree near the back garden. So I'd whistle back. The bird would them mimic the whistle.

And it recognised me. It surprised people when I was at the bus stop that a bird would land in the a nearby tree and wolf-whistle. (Yes, that is what I taught it, I really am that shallow.)

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Leorning Cniht
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quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
We have several national flowers in the UK (though, no UK national flower). Why have just one bird?

I have never understood the obsession with having official state flowers, trees, birds, crustaceans and all the rest of it. It's a load of nonsense.

What purpose would a "UK national bird" have? Nothing. The UK has a wide variety of native birds, and there's no reason to prefer one over the other in this way. Similarly, the UK has a wide variety of people.

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Kitten
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I have a soft spot for the red kite

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Oscar the Grouch

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WHY would the UK need a national bird? OK - it's not that essential, but it is about a visual image that helps sum up what the nation is about. I would quite warm to a national bird.

WHICH BIRD should it be? I don't think it is easy to look beyond the robin. It is a well-known and well-loved garden bird and can sum up some of the best bits about being British: indomitable, willing to take on anything larger than itself in defence of its territory; colourful and musical.

If you're looking for a bird which somehow represents "Britishness", I don't think that there is a better contender.

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Cottontail

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I think it should be the ptarmigan, because that is the Best Word Ever. But I take the point made on the radio, that the robin is a design classic.

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Sparrow
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quote:
Originally posted by Jengie jon:

I suspect the robin would still get my vote as they are common and popular birds but I do wonder if for a group of Islands where the sea forms such part of our identity whether the puffin might be better.

Having just come back from Iceland I think they have already laid claim to the puffin. Although they do eat them!

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Boogie

Boogie on down!
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I'm amazed you didn't put a good word in for the sparrow, Sparrow!

I think they are smashing little birds. Sadly 'my' flock has left us since we cut the bushes down at the side of the fence [Frown]

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Garden. Room. Walk

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Sparrow
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quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
I'm amazed you didn't put a good word in for the sparrow, Sparrow!

I think they are smashing little birds. Sadly 'my' flock has left us since we cut the bushes down at the side of the fence [Frown]

I didn't think of it! I haven't seen one for years.

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For I am persuaded that neither death, nor life,nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present nor things to come, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

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St. Gwladys
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I thoughjt that the red kite was the national bird of Wales. We saw two on the way from Abergavenny to Hereford today. [Smile]

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"Careful what you say sir, we're on board ship here"
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lilBuddha
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quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
I'm amazed you didn't put a good word in for the sparrow, Sparrow!

I think they are smashing little birds. Sadly 'my' flock has left us since we cut the bushes down at the side of the fence [Frown]

Sparrows cannot be the UK national bird! Sparrows don't queue.

ETA:Sparrows mob and fight, so they could be the representative bird of football fans...

[ 11. April 2015, 19:29: Message edited by: lilBuddha ]

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Baptist Trainfan
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We are blessed in this neck of East Anglia with a colony of Tree Sparrows, which I understand are quite rare. They ain't half noisy as they flutter around!

Of course the national bird of West London (where we used to live) is the green parrakeet.

[ 11. April 2015, 19:37: Message edited by: Baptist Trainfan ]

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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58

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I'm voting for sparrows. Iconic London bird.

Otherwise the mallard would do - they're ubiquitous, most people like them, and "feeding the ducks" is a pleasure that lasts beyond childhood.

quote:
Originally posted by St. Gwladys:
I thought that the red kite was the national bird of Wales. We saw two on the way from Abergavenny to Hereford today. [Smile]

Wait till you get to Oxfordshire. In some parts of the county they seem to outnumber any other kind of bird. (Possibly they intimidated them into moving elsewhere, or ate them, or something.)
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Enoch
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The reason why the Red Kite is associated with Wales is because they were common everywhere until about the time of Jane Austin. They then got wiped out by gamekeepers and others except for a very small number that hung on around Tregaron. For about 70 years they were down to about 6.

The ones in Oxfordshire descend from a very successful reintroduction near High Wycombe. There have been other reintroductions elsewhere - just north of Leeds for example. The ones in Wales began to spread outwards about 30 years ago, and have now reached Shropshire. So they are a natural comeback, not an assisted one.

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Oscar the Grouch

Adopted Cascadian
# 1916

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quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
I'm amazed you didn't put a good word in for the sparrow, Sparrow!

I think they are smashing little birds. Sadly 'my' flock has left us since we cut the bushes down at the side of the fence [Frown]

I did consider the sparrow, on the grounds that it's been taken across the world and where ever it has gone it has taken over, squeezed out the resident population, and makes a loud racket in doing so.

We had a pair of sparrows nesting in a box in the garden next door, last year. They were hugely successful and had at least two broods. By the end of the summer there was a little flock of the noisy blighters. Sadly, the new neighbours have removed the nesting box and cut back the shrubs and the sparrows have moved on.
[Frown]

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Faradiu, dundeibáwa weyu lárigi weyu

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Drifting Star

Drifting against the wind
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The red kites are fed daily in a number of places in Ceredigion, so there is a degree of assistance.

The numbers in Ceredigion are very high - we would expect to see between 5 and a dozen on any 10 mile journey, and we have seen more than 20 at one time on several occasions.

[ 11. April 2015, 21:04: Message edited by: Drifting Star ]

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IngoB

Sentire cum Ecclesia
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Emma Watson?

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They’ll have me whipp’d for speaking true; thou’lt have me whipp’d for lying; and sometimes I am whipp’d for holding my peace. - The Fool in King Lear

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Teufelchen
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quote:
Originally posted by IngoB:
Emma Watson?

Or, you could try not being gratuitously sexist.

t

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Chocoholic
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A recent question on family fortunes was to name small birds. Genuinely one of the answers on the board (so more than 1 person said it) was Kylie Minogue.
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Athrawes
Ship's parrot
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Puffins! Puffins are wonderful. Why not go with something so beautiful, hardy, intelligent and fun?

Boogie, I know where your sparrows went. They hitched a ride to Australia and live in my back yard, where they come into the house and eat the dog biscuits. Do you want them back?

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Explaining why is going to need a moment, since along the way we must take in the Ancient Greeks, the study of birds, witchcraft, 19thC Vaudeville and the history of baseball. Michael Quinion.

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Macrina
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quote:
Originally posted by Teufelchen:
quote:
Originally posted by IngoB:
Emma Watson?

Or, you could try not being gratuitously sexist.

t

I actually chuckled at that *shame faced*
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Welease Woderwick

Sister Incubus Nightmare
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I think I'd go for the humble starling, most amazing and beautiful birds - and seen up close their colouring is stunning!

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Oscar the Grouch

Adopted Cascadian
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quote:
Originally posted by Welease Woderwick:
I think I'd go for the humble starling, most amazing and beautiful birds - and seen up close their colouring is stunning!

And one of the funniest, as well. They're great to watch in flocks as they feed. And watching them coming together at dusk to roost is awesome.

But I'm not sure they represent "Britishness" as such to be the National Bird.

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Faradiu, dundeibáwa weyu lárigi weyu

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bib
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When I receive Christmas cards from the UK they always seem to have robins on them and so I tend to see robins as particularly British. (Mind you, we also have robins in Australia.)

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Firenze

Ordinary decent pagan
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Starlings? Starlings! You know they come here from Northern Europe? Perch on our pylons, take our plumbing jobs, open delicatessens selling weird starling foods...
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Golden Key
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Presented for your consideration:

Ben Franklin wrote to his daughter about which should be the US bird--the eagle or the turkey. The top of the article has a great mock-up of what our national seal would be with Franklin's preferred bird.
[Smile]

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Boogie

Boogie on down!
# 13538

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quote:
Originally posted by Athrawes:

Boogie, I know where your sparrows went. They hitched a ride to Australia and live in my back yard, where they come into the house and eat the dog biscuits. Do you want them back?

Yes - please - I will provide the air fare. I miss them! We put decking in the garden as it was becoming a swamp due to such high rainfall - but the sparrows went away.


Here is the new decking where the sparrows' bushes used to be. I enjoy the decking, but miss 'my' birds! They are fine, there's a huge park nearby. But I used to love to watch them eating, bathing and generally sparrowing [Smile]

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Garden. Room. Walk

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Alan Cresswell

Mad Scientist 先生
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quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
Otherwise the mallard would do - they're ubiquitous, most people like them, and "feeding the ducks" is a pleasure that lasts beyond childhood.

And, they come in sets of three on the walls of living rooms across the country.

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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.

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Athrawes
Ship's parrot
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quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
quote:
Originally posted by Athrawes:

Boogie, I know where your sparrows went. They hitched a ride to Australia and live in my back yard, where they come into the house and eat the dog biscuits. Do you want them back?

Yes - please - I will provide the air fare. I miss them! We put decking in the garden as it was becoming a swamp due to such high rainfall - but the sparrows went away.


Here is the new decking where the sparrows' bushes used to be. I enjoy the decking, but miss 'my' birds! They are fine, there's a huge park nearby. But I used to love to watch them eating, bathing and generally sparrowing [Smile]

The decking is very impressive ( as are the occupants [Big Grin] )

[Overused] as to the sparrows, it might be a bit hard to shift them. They are very happy (except when I have to help them find their way out of the house again) and in addition to the (very expensive) dog biscuits, I have several parrots who throw their seed all over the ground. The place must resemble an All you can eat buffet for them.

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Explaining why is going to need a moment, since along the way we must take in the Ancient Greeks, the study of birds, witchcraft, 19thC Vaudeville and the history of baseball. Michael Quinion.

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Curiosity killed ...

Ship's Mug
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quote:
Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:
Of course the national bird of West London (where we used to live) is the green parrakeet.

- they are right across London now and out the other side into East Anglia. I had one on my bird feeders a couple of months ago. You too will be enjoying green parakeets soon!

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Ariel
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# 58

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quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
And, they come in sets of three on the walls of living rooms across the country.

I haven't seen the flying duck wall ornaments in England since the late 1970s. I think they would be quite rare now.
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Kelly Alves

Bunny with an axe
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quote:
Originally posted by Firenze:
Starlings? Starlings! You know they come here from Northern Europe? Perch on our pylons, take our plumbing jobs, open delicatessens selling weird starling foods...

[Big Grin]

Starlings are underrated. Yeah, I know they are an invasive species. Yeah, I know they kick little mourning doves out of their nests and make a lot of racket on the roof. But they have lots of personality, and like Wod said, they have lovely feathers.

Around here, they flock with the blackbirds. Do they cross- breed?

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Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
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system1
Apprentice
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The answer is eagle and swan - but not together.
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Dafyd
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# 5549

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quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
Around here, they flock with the blackbirds. Do they cross- breed?

Unlikely - they're not closely related. (They're closer to European blackbirds than they are to American blackbirds, but starlings of all kinds form a distinct family of their own regardless.)

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we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams

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Albertus
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quote:
Originally posted by Macrina:
quote:
Originally posted by Teufelchen:
quote:
Originally posted by IngoB:
Emma Watson?

Or, you could try not being gratuitously sexist.

t

I actually chuckled at that *shame faced*
And me. Mind you, given the datedness of the term, I'd thought it might be Barbara Windsor.
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Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984

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What no pidgeon (rock dove for pr) ?

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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell

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balaam

Making an ass of myself
# 4543

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quote:
Originally posted by system1:
The answer is eagle and swan - but not together.

A sweagle would be an interesting hybrid. You are wrong on both counts though, the Golden eagle works for the Scots, but is not the UK bird. Swans stole my daughter's sandwich on Windermere, so that won't do. It has to be the starling. But welcome to the ship anyway.

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Posts: 9049 | From: Hen Ogledd | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged
Alan Cresswell

Mad Scientist 先生
# 31

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quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
And, they come in sets of three on the walls of living rooms across the country.

I haven't seen the flying duck wall ornaments in England since the late 1970s. I think they would be quite rare now.
Ah, but you see then you also bring in the British sense of nostalgia. By the time someone actually adopts a national bird the 1970s will be the setting for period dramas. The equivalent of Downtown Abbey seen by billions around the world will have sets of three mallards on every wall, and that will be our national bird. Perfect marketting.

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Welease Woderwick

Sister Incubus Nightmare
# 10424

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With one taking a nosedive per Hilda Ogden?

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Eirenist
Shipmate
# 13343

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Our national bird should be the wren. It may be small (it was on the reverse of our smallest coin, the farthing, until they were abolished), it is indigenous, and according to legend became the king of all birds by perching on the head of the eagle ('the special relationship'?). So it punches above its weight.

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Doublethink.
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# 1984

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Wasn't it tortured for wassailiing as well, sounds like the kind of history you need to be a national icon.

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Sipech
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# 16870

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I was a bit annoyed that the pigeon wasn't on there. It's ubiquitous, rather annoying and shits all over the place - a perfect metaphor for the British.

I am rather fond of barn owls, kingfishers and puffins for being beautiful birds, but can't see how they embody much national identity, particularly given how rare they are.

Rarity also probably rules out the hen harrier.

The red kite is a great success story. I recall, as a child, having to travel to a remote part of Wales in order to see them; now you can see them from the M40!

The wren has nothing on either the robin or the blue tit.

I would probably go with the mute swan. It's not so rare you have to go hundreds of miles to see one, majestic at times and a bit vicious at others.

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la vie en rouge
Parisienne
# 10688

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I’m another one kind of disappointed not to see the humble sparrow on the list. I know they’re kind of ubiquitous and unexceptional, but that’s why I like them.

(My Dad puts out food for the birds and gets a lots of sparrows in his garden. Every now and again a sparrow hawk swoops down and flies off with one. Rather than being filled with ornithological wonder at the sight of this magnificent bird of prey, my Dad gets mightily pissed off that one of “his” sparrows got eaten.

Mum en rouge: That’s how nature works. The sparrow hawk’s a carnivore, he has to eat.
Dad en rouge: (grumpy) I don’t care. Let him go and eat someone else’s sparrows and leave mine alone.

[Big Grin] )

When I was a student in Surrey I used to see robins quite often, but since they are not common in the Midlands where I grew up, they always felt quite exotic to me.

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Welease Woderwick

Sister Incubus Nightmare
# 10424

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Billions of sparrows over here - just go to any market area anywhere in India and you will see your fill of them but our National Bird is the Keacock - a bird that qualifies as stupid even by bird standards!

And we have many varieties of Kingfisher, most days I see several.

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Welease Woderwick

Sister Incubus Nightmare
# 10424

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[Hot and Hormonal]

I meant, of course, Peacock!

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Sipech
Shipmate
# 16870

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quote:
Originally posted by Welease Woderwick:
the Peacock - a bird that qualifies as stupid even by bird standards!

I'll second that. They roam free around Whipsnade zoo, where I used to work. They just amble along in the middle of the road, oblivious to any cars or pick up trucks that might run them over.

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Dafyd
Shipmate
# 5549

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quote:
Originally posted by la vie en rouge:
I’m another one kind of disappointed not to see the humble sparrow on the list. I know they’re kind of ubiquitous and unexceptional, but that’s why I like them.

They're not as ubiquitous now as they were twenty five years ago, although they're beginning to reappear. We didn't use to realise just how pretty the cock sparrows are.
They are nevertheless highly sociable and extravert birds, and I think not really how the UK sees its dominant culture.

[ 13. April 2015, 12:21: Message edited by: Dafyd ]

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