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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: hermeneutical Cirque du soleil
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cliffdweller
Shipmate
# 13338
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Posted
Inspired by a thread in Purgatory, you will be provided with an "alleged" biblical contradiction. But of course, Good Christian Brethren that we are, we know there are no biblical contradictions. So you provide the eisegetical gymnastics required to confound the tricks of Satan's minions. Back-flips, somersaults, and other death-defying flights of fancy strongly encouraged.
I'll start us off with an easy one-- this old chestnut:
Mark 6:8-9: These were his instructions: “Take nothing for the journey except a staff—no bread, no bag, no money in your belts. Wear sandals but not an extra tunic.
Matt. 10:10: take no bag for the journey, or extra tunic, or sandals or a staff; for the worker is worth his keep.
Luke 10:4: Do not take a purse or bag or sandals; and do not greet anyone on the road.
So, wait... what exactly are we supposed to take on the journey?
[ 06. June 2016, 14:54: Message edited by: cliffdweller ]
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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner
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fausto
Shipmate
# 13737
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by cliffdweller:
Inspired by a thread in Purgatory, you will be provided with an "alleged" biblical contradiction. But of course, Good Christian Brethren that we are, we know there are no biblical contradictions. So you provide the eisegetical gymnastics required to confound the tricks of Satan's minions. Back-flips, somersaults, and other death-defying flights of fancy strongly encouraged.
I'll start us off with an easy one-- this old chestnut:
Mark 6:8-9: These were his instructions: “Take nothing for the journey except a staff—no bread, no bag, no money in your belts. Wear sandals but not an extra tunic.
Matt. 10:10: take no bag for the journey, or extra tunic, or sandals or a staff; for the worker is worth his keep.
Luke 10:4: Do not take a purse or bag or sandals; and do not greet anyone on the road.
So, wait... what exactly are we supposed to take on the journey?
When Mark says to take a "staff" he means a walking stick, because that is just sensible, but when Matthew says to take "no staff" he means advisors and a press secretary and pollsters and market analysts and media coaches and a make-up crew, because they would merely muffle the direct voice of the Holy Spirit.
Similarly, when Mark says to "wear" sandals but don't take an extra tunic he is simply offering practical advice on traveling light in the days before God inspired Samsonite to make rolling luggage -- indeed, all three of them say not to take a bag. But if you don't have a bag to put the extra stuff in, it make sense not to "take" an extra pair of sandals (as Matthew and Luke advise) or extra tunic (as all three of them advise). Just wear what you need.
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"Truth did not come into the world naked, but it came in types and images. The world will not receive truth in any other way." Gospel of Philip, Logion 72
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fausto
Shipmate
# 13737
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by fausto:
But if you don't have a bag to put the extra stuff in, it make sense not to "take" an extra pair of sandals (as Matthew and Luke advise) or extra tunic (as all three of them advise). Just wear what you need.
Oops, I mixed up who advised no extra sandals and who advised no extra tunic there, and didn't catch it until the Ship's deadline for corrections had already lapsed, but the point remains that there is no contradiction. Wear only what you need and don't pack any extras, because it's just an excuse for the airlines to charge more, and the only wings you need are the Holy Spirit's anyway.
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"Truth did not come into the world naked, but it came in types and images. The world will not receive truth in any other way." Gospel of Philip, Logion 72
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cliffdweller
Shipmate
# 13338
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Posted
OK, Fausto, you provide the next demonic deception, er, contradiction for us to pole-vault over...
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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner
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Brenda Clough
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# 18061
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Posted
Well here is a nice one. I particularly admire that both verses are from Matthew. Guy, always re-read what you've written to be sure you haven't stepped on your own tail.
Matt 5:16 "In the same way, let your light shine before men, that they may see your good deeds and praise your Father in heaven." (NIV)
Matt 6:3-4 "But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, so that your giving may be in secret. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you." (NIV)
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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page
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cliffdweller
Shipmate
# 13338
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
Well here is a nice one. I particularly admire that both verses are from Matthew. Guy, always re-read what you've written to be sure you haven't stepped on your own tail.
Matt 5:16 "In the same way, let your light shine before men, that they may see your good deeds and praise your Father in heaven." (NIV)
Matt 6:3-4 "But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, so that your giving may be in secret. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you." (NIV)
Challenge accepted.
In the ancient Akkadian "light" means spirit, so when you let your light shine you're not exalting yourself and your good deeds, you're shining a light on the work of the Holy Spirit. A good way to do this is to point upward while the congregational applauds you for your testimony/ praise song/ recitation of 5 obscure chapters of Leviticus.
otoh, in ancient Hebrew culture, "left hand" is evil, whereas "right hand" is the place of Christ. So to let your "left hand" know what you're doing is to tip your hand to Satan. Crafty devil will be able to undermine your good works thru the Demon of Prideful Arrogance, bringing generational curses to you and your descendants to the 3rd generation. A simple prayer of deliverance (make sure to follow formula correctly!) will forestall this, effectively binding Satan and his minions, allowing you to clearly demonstrate the Good Works of your Right Hand without fear of Satanic interference. Just be sure to do that pointing to Jesus thing.
[ 06. June 2016, 15:53: Message edited by: cliffdweller ]
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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner
Posts: 11242 | From: a small canyon overlooking the city | Registered: Jan 2008
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fausto
Shipmate
# 13737
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by cliffdweller:
OK, Fausto, you provide the next demonic deception, er, contradiction for us to pole-vault over...
Oh, that's how it works? Okay...
And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. Genesis 1:31
God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him. I John 4:16
Out of the mouth of the most High proceedeth not evil and good? Lamentations 3:38
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things. Isaiah 45:7
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"Truth did not come into the world naked, but it came in types and images. The world will not receive truth in any other way." Gospel of Philip, Logion 72
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fausto
Shipmate
# 13737
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by cliffdweller:
quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
Well here is a nice one. I particularly admire that both verses are from Matthew. Guy, always re-read what you've written to be sure you haven't stepped on your own tail.
Matt 5:16 "In the same way, let your light shine before men, that they may see your good deeds and praise your Father in heaven." (NIV)
Matt 6:3-4 "But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, so that your giving may be in secret. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you." (NIV)
Challenge accepted.
In the ancient Akkadian "light" means spirit, so when you let your light shine you're not exalting yourself and your good deeds, you're shining a light on the work of the Holy Spirit. A good way to do this is to point upward while the congregational applauds you for your testimony/ praise song/ recitation of 5 obscure chapters of Leviticus.
otoh, in ancient Hebrew culture, "left hand" is evil, whereas "right hand" is the place of Christ. So to let your "left hand" know what you're doing is to tip your hand to Satan. Crafty devil will be able to undermine your good works thru the Demon of Prideful Arrogance, bringing generational curses to you and your descendants to the 3rd generation. A simple prayer of deliverance (make sure to follow formula correctly!) will forestall this, effectively binding Satan and his minions, allowing you to clearly demonstrate the Good Works of your Right Hand without fear of Satanic interference. Just be sure to do that pointing to Jesus thing.
But Jesus spoke in Aramaic and Matthew wrote in Greek. Besides, there was no "right hand of Christ" in ancient Hebrew culture. Talk about Satanic deception! Sheesh, you can do better than that.
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"Truth did not come into the world naked, but it came in types and images. The world will not receive truth in any other way." Gospel of Philip, Logion 72
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cliffdweller
Shipmate
# 13338
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by fausto:
But Jesus spoke in Aramaic and Matthew wrote in Greek. Besides, there was no "right hand of Christ" in ancient Hebrew culture. Talk about Satanic deception! Sheesh, you can do better than that.
shhhh...! A magician never tells his secrets. The secret to herementical Cirque du Soleil is smoke & mirrors-- slight of hand and distraction. Your audience doesn't know Akkadian, Aramaic, koine Greek or ancient Hebrew. But all that book larnin' is proof you know what you're talking about, cuz who can argue with "the original Greek says..." (unless you're in my current congregation full of OT scholars... but that's my cross to bear and no hermeneutical fun at all...)
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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner
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fausto
Shipmate
# 13737
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by cliffdweller:
quote:
Originally posted by fausto:
...Talk about Satanic deception! Sheesh, you can do better than that.
...The secret to herementical Cirque du Soleil is smoke & mirrors-- slight of hand and distraction. ...
Uh huh. As I was saying...
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"Truth did not come into the world naked, but it came in types and images. The world will not receive truth in any other way." Gospel of Philip, Logion 72
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jacobsen
seeker
# 14998
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by fausto:
And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. Genesis 1:31
God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him. I John 4:16
Out of the mouth of the most High proceedeth not evil and good? Lamentations 3:38
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things. Isaiah 45:7
It's really quite simple. God rested on the seventh day, and while he was sleeping, the sun went down, darkness fell, and evil crept out from under the stone where it had been hiding.
Was God prepared to admit being caught napping? No way - think of His reputation.
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But God, holding a candle, looks for all who wander, all who search. - Shifra Alon
Beauty fades, dumb is forever-Judge Judy
The man who made time, made plenty.
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cliffdweller
Shipmate
# 13338
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by jacobsen:
quote:
Originally posted by fausto:
And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. Genesis 1:31
God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him. I John 4:16
Out of the mouth of the most High proceedeth not evil and good? Lamentations 3:38
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things. Isaiah 45:7
It's really quite simple. God rested on the seventh day, and while he was sleeping, the sun went down, darkness fell, and evil crept out from under the stone where it had been hiding.
Was God prepared to admit being caught napping? No way - think of His reputation.
See, now THAT's the way we play hermeneutical Cirque du Soleil. Jacobsen, you pick next!
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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner
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cliffdweller
Shipmate
# 13338
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Posted
Clarifying rules: while the winner of the prior round is encouraged to put forth an entry, you're not required to wait for that. If you've got a juicy tidbit just waiting for some theatrical back-bends and flights of fancy, go ahead and put it out there for us to work our magic! ![[Yipee]](graemlins/spin.gif)
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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner
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fausto
Shipmate
# 13737
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Posted
No one has ever seen God. John 1:18
"Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good--except God alone." Mark 10:18
"If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I." John 14:28
"I and the Father are one." John 10:33
"If you really know me, you will know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him.” John 14:7
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"Truth did not come into the world naked, but it came in types and images. The world will not receive truth in any other way." Gospel of Philip, Logion 72
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cliffdweller
Shipmate
# 13338
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Posted
oh-ho, Fausto is challenging us to the real feats of strength, the timid need not apply!
OK, who's up for that gravity and apostasy- defying challenge? Remember, the more backflips and impossible cartwheels you turn, the greater the points!
[ 08. June 2016, 19:14: Message edited by: cliffdweller ]
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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner
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Banner Lady
Ship's Ensign
# 10505
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Posted
We live in a dark and fleshy world.
Obviously one needs the right coloured spectacles to see things that are of the spirit. In the first instant, John is addressing all those who do not possess such glasses. After handing out the spectacles, he is then fielding responses from all those now telling him "Oh look, I CAN see in the Spirit!"
"Yes, if you can see Jesus, then you can see the Father, too."
It's all about optics. And seeing farther.
[ 09. June 2016, 00:16: Message edited by: Banner Lady ]
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Women in the church are not a problem to be solved, but a mystery to be enjoyed.
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cliffdweller
Shipmate
# 13338
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Posted
cliffdweller doffs her ringmaster's hat in banner lady's direction.
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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner
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jacobsen
seeker
# 14998
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Posted
Matthew 18.9 …8If your hand or your foot causes you to fall into sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life crippled or lame than to have two hands and two feet and be thrown into the eternal fire. 9And ifyour eye causes you to fall into sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for youto enter life with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into the fire of hel
Matthew 5:22
But I tell you that anyone who is angry with his brother will be subject to judgment.
John 8:7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.
Deuteronomy 28:8
The Lord shall smite thee with madness, blindness and astonishment of heart.
John 15:12 This is My commandment, that you love one another as I loved you
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But God, holding a candle, looks for all who wander, all who search. - Shifra Alon
Beauty fades, dumb is forever-Judge Judy
The man who made time, made plenty.
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cliffdweller
Shipmate
# 13338
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Posted
It's all about stones. Judgment = stoning. In order to get the get-out-of-judgment free card, you have to be holding the magic stone. Whoever is holding the stone gets a free pass, which they are can transfer to anyone of their choosing (hence Jesus passing it to the woman). But if you let go of the magic stone, you are subject to judgment.
![[Ultra confused]](graemlins/confused2.gif)
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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner
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fausto
Shipmate
# 13737
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Posted
Cliffdweller, it's your turn!
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"Truth did not come into the world naked, but it came in types and images. The world will not receive truth in any other way." Gospel of Philip, Logion 72
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cliffdweller
Shipmate
# 13338
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Posted
Today we have a guest contestant, Sen. David Perdue, offering this aerobatic challenge:
Psa. 109:6 Appoint an evil man to oppose him;
let an accuser stand at his right hand.
Psa. 109:7 When he is tried, let him be found guilty,
and may his prayers condemn him.
Psa. 109:8 May his days be few;
may another take his place of leadership.
Psa. 109:9 May his children be fatherless
and his wife a widow.
Psa. 109:10 May his children be wandering beggars;
may they be driven from their ruined homes.
Psa. 109:11 May a creditor seize all he has;
may strangers plunder the fruits of his labor.
Psa. 109:12 May no one extend kindness to him
or take pity on his fatherless children.
Psa. 109:13 May his descendants be cut off,
their names blotted out from the next generation.
Psa. 109:14 May the iniquity of his fathers be remembered before the LORD;
may the sin of his mother never be blotted out.
Psa. 109:15 May their sins always remain before the LORD,
that he may cut off the memory of them from the ear
Matt. 5:43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’
Matt. 5:44 But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,
Don't worry if this challenge seems daunting: there seem to be no shortage of good Christian Republican ready to assist you in making the leap.
[ 11. June 2016, 04:05: Message edited by: cliffdweller ]
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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner
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jacobsen
seeker
# 14998
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Posted
Someone give that poor, hung-over psalmist an ice pack, seltzer and paracetamol. Once he's slept it off, he'll feel much more charitable.
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But God, holding a candle, looks for all who wander, all who search. - Shifra Alon
Beauty fades, dumb is forever-Judge Judy
The man who made time, made plenty.
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Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061
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Posted
Clearly the psalmist was in one of those kindergarten playground contests. Having recited this, his opponent yells, "I'm Teflon, you're glue!" and it all bounces back onto him.
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Banner Lady
Ship's Ensign
# 10505
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Posted
I commend the good senator for contrasting the Psalmists scriptural instructions - upon which the IRS/Taxation Dep't are founded - with the instructions of Jesus as quoted by his disciple Matthew.
This explains why the words of Jesus are not welcome within the walls of Government any more. They are not good for the economy at all.
Thank you Senator.
[ 11. June 2016, 21:54: Message edited by: Banner Lady ]
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Women in the church are not a problem to be solved, but a mystery to be enjoyed.
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fausto
Shipmate
# 13737
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Banner Lady:
I commend the good senator for contrasting the Psalmists scriptural instructions - upon which the IRS/Taxation Dep't are founded - with the instructions of Jesus as quoted by his disciple Matthew.
This explains why the words of Jesus are not welcome within the walls of Government any more. They are not good for the economy at all.
Thank you Senator.
I'm afraid we must jump back a few posts to Mark 10:18 ("Why do you call me good? There is none good but God") before choosing adjectives to describe Senator Perdue. The choice bits from Psalm 109 were his suggestion, when he was reminded recently that it is customary to pray for those in power, for how to pray for President Obama. Evidently Sen. Perdue has a little bit of Jonah's reluctance in him.
Anyway, the contrasting verse is cliffdweller's own contribution.
My take on Psalm 109 is that Sen. Perdue omitted the key verses, which are verses 2 and 3:
quote:
For the mouth of a wicked man and the mouth of a deceitful man have opened upon me; they spoke with me with a lying tongue.
And with words of hatred they have surrounded me, and they have fought with me without cause.
Obviously, this prophetic psalm anticipated not the presidency of Barack Obama, but the candidacy of Donald Trump.
Jesus "emptied himself" of his divinity to assume human form (Phil. 2:7), so he must have emptied himself too of his divine foreknowledge. Since he expected the imminent arrival of the Kingdom of God, of course he would not have foreknown that some 2,000 years later guys like Trump would still be spewing lies and hatred and coveting power. If he had retained his foreknowledge, he would have allowed exceptions, because when he talked about loving and forgiving everybody he was talking specifically about the citizens of the Kingdom, which he thought would arrive soon and include everybody -- not those who aspire to overthrow it.
[ 11. June 2016, 23:23: Message edited by: fausto ]
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"Truth did not come into the world naked, but it came in types and images. The world will not receive truth in any other way." Gospel of Philip, Logion 72
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jacobsen
seeker
# 14998
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by fausto:
Jesus "emptied himself" of his divinity to assume human form (Phil. 2:7), so he must have emptied himself too of his divine foreknowledge. Since he expected the imminent arrival of the Kingdom of God, of course he would not have foreknown that some 2,000 years later guys like Trump would still be spewing lies and hatred and coveting power. If he had retained his foreknowledge, he would have allowed exceptions, because when he talked about loving and forgiving everybody he was talking specifically about the citizens of the Kingdom, which he thought would arrive soon and include everybody -- not those who aspire to overthrow it. [/QB]
You don't need foreknowledge of liars, only postknowledge of what has gone before. Liars we have always with us. Knock off one Trump and more will follow, till the Last Trump.
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But God, holding a candle, looks for all who wander, all who search. - Shifra Alon
Beauty fades, dumb is forever-Judge Judy
The man who made time, made plenty.
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