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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: musical generational dividers
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Stetson
Shipmate
# 9597
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Posted
I recall in what must have been 1982, watching a news report about a Rolling Stones tour somewhere, and when they showed footage of Mick Jagger on stage and, well, just being Mick Jagger, my dad(born 1934) opined "This is the kind of crap you kids like today. Just a bunch of screaming and yelling."
In other words, my father thought that 13-year olds in 1982 were really into Mick Jagger.
Now, granted, yes, the style ushered in by(among others) the Stones did not die with the 1960s, and it's probably the case that someone who doesn't like them would also have disliked some of the more current rock bands of the early 80s, like Van Halen or Iron Maiden. It's also certainly the case that Mick and the boys did have a bit of a following among the younger set in that era, though they weren't the group that was appearing on a lot of t-shirts around school.
My main point here is that my dad, despite being twenty-five when the '60s started, and thirty-five when they ended, didn't know who the Rolling Stones were, apart from maybe having heard the name.
None of which would be very remarkable, except that I recall later watching another news report about a Chuck Berry tribute show somewhere, and my dad turned to me and said "That's really good music, you know". Ironically, that show was produced by Keith Richards, who was interviewed and expressed similar admiration for Berry.
Now, to me, this would be like someone now in his forties knowing who Nirvana were, but being clueless about Oasis. Okay, I would probably need to be told that I was watching Oasis if they turned up on my TV screen while I was channel-surfing, even though I would recognize Nirvana on sight. But, at the very least, upon hearing their name, I wouldn't categorize them as typifyng the tastes of teenagers in 2016.
Thinking about all this, I get the impression that, for people of my dad's generation, everything changed with the Beatles, and however high a tolerance or affection you might have had for Elvis, Jerry Lee Lewis, or Chuck Berry, your popular music awareness basically shut down after about 1963. BUT...
People of later generations(maybe starting with the so-called Boomers) are more likely to be aware of musical trends that continured throughout their lives, even after they have grown out of the target age demographic for popular music.
I'd be interested to know if other people have noticed the same thing, or if I'm just extrapolating from my own experience. I will say it does seem to have been a common divide among people I knew in my parents age bracket.
TL/DR: The last three paragraphs above sort of sum it up.
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I have the power...Lucifer is lord!
Posts: 6574 | From: back and forth between bible belts | Registered: Jun 2005
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Gamaliel
Shipmate
# 812
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Posted
Interesting. My Dad was born in 1936 and my mother in 1938 so both of them considered themselves too old for rock and roll - that was something their younger brothers and sisters got into.
My Dad was into The Temperance Seven, Tijuana Brass, Shirley Bassey, Tom Jones and crooners like Andy Williams and Perry Como. My mum enjoyed light classical music and some of the Lloyd Webber stuff ...
Her sister was into Bill Haley, Chuck Berry, Elvis and so on. My Dad's youngest brother was a big Rolling Stones fan and played in R&B bands. I remember my Gran's 1930s bungalow shaking to 12-bar blues riffs and my uncle and his mates setting off to the Isle of Wight Festival in a psychedellically painted Volkswagen with 'Love' emblazoned across the bonnet.
My Dad did seem to be aware, later on, of groups like The Who and Free but he wasn't 'into' them as such. But he knew what it was.
As far as my own kids go - aged 20 and 18, their tastes are pretty eclectic. My youngest is mainly into 'metal' tinged stuff - both older bands and newer ones but is also partial to ska and some punk. My eldest listens to all the stuff I listened to - The Clash, The Undertones, Stiff Little Fingers - and all points in between ... she's into Vampire Weekend, various singer-songwriters and plenty of people I've not heard of.
My impression these days is that da kidz listen to a wide range of material and the particular era it's from doesn't matter that much. My brother knows lads in the early 20s who'll listen to early Jethro Tull one minute and rap and hip-hop the next.
The whole thing is fragmentary and eclectic and da kidz seem to mix and match and draw from the back catalogue as it suits them.
Which is all very healthy I think.
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Let us with a gladsome mind
Praise the Lord for He is kind.
http://philthebard.blogspot.com
Posts: 15997 | From: Cheshire, UK | Registered: Jul 2001
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
I can speak of 13 year olds, of whom it has been my pleasure (mostly) to work closely with for the last two years. The vast majority of them are into whoever is currently hot on the radio. Some of them have heard of the Beatles, but only one of the 150 I worked with could actually name a Beatles song. They of course were appalled that I didn't know the name of the latest performers.
One or two from each class (of 30) liked something other than current pop hits. Only one liked things older than the 90s.
For myself my knowledge of pop music is strong through about 1978, fair-to-middling from then through 1985, and crap after that.
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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Ricardus
Shipmate
# 8757
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Posted
It's probably worth considering that the history of popular music in the twentieth century is seriously weird.
AFAIK folk music remained basically similar in style and idiom from the days of 'hey nonny nonny' up to whatever Holst and Vaughan Williams wrote down. At some point in the nineteenth century it became possible to mass manufacture pianos for the lower-middle classes, and the working classes gained enough surplus income to afford to go to the music hall - thus creating 'songs around the piano' and music hall numbers, which are a bit of a development, but not very far outside the tradition.
The sudden wave of different styles of music in the early to mid twentieth century - jazz, swing, rock, etc - must have come as a total revolutionary shock, the like of which has never been seen before. My guess is that the concept of generational music is therefore seriously anomalous and popular music is settling back into a steady state.
(Disclaimer: the above was written by someone whose idea of pop music is Gilbert and Sullivan ...)
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Then the dog ran before, and coming as if he had brought the news, shewed his joy by his fawning and wagging his tail. -- Tobit 11:9 (Douai-Rheims)
Posts: 7247 | From: Liverpool, UK | Registered: Nov 2004
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Og, King of Bashan
Ship's giant Amorite
# 9562
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Posted
I'm a dad, so I can say it: dads aren't cool. You can get grumpy about modern music, you can try to keep up with trends, you can stick with the stuff you love and try to expose your kids to it before they develop tastes of their own. But you aren't going to be setting trends ever again, and at some point, you are going to feel super out of place at the cool concert.
Although I will admit that, when I took my wife to a Katy Parry concert a few years back (average concert attendee: 12 and female), the fact that there were no lines for either beer or the men's room was pretty awesome.
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"I like to eat crawfish and drink beer. That's despair?" ― Walker Percy
Posts: 3259 | From: Denver, Colorado, USA | Registered: May 2005
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Og, King of Bashan
Ship's giant Amorite
# 9562
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ricardus:
'songs around the piano' and music hall numbers, which are a bit of a development, but not very far outside the tradition.
Some would argue that Paul McCartney falls squarely within this tradition. Yet I'm sure there were many dads steeped in the music hall classics who called it trash.
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"I like to eat crawfish and drink beer. That's despair?" ― Walker Percy
Posts: 3259 | From: Denver, Colorado, USA | Registered: May 2005
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Crœsos
Shipmate
# 238
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Posted
"Fun" fact: There is a shorter timespan between the release of the Rolling Stones' "Beggars Banquet" album and the Scopes monkey trial than there is between "Beggar's Banquet" and the present day.
Just a little perspective to help things along.
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Humani nil a me alienum puto
Posts: 10706 | From: Sardis, Lydia | Registered: May 2001
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Schroedinger's cat
Ship's cool cat
# 64
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Posted
My parents were (Mum still is) into classical music. It bored me, so there was a massive generational gap there.
Whereas me and my 22YO actually share a reasonable degree of broad musical appreciation. His tastes and styles are not too foreign (or musically inept), and mine are not too distant.
I was watching a documentary on Scott Walker today. He is an interesting character - most people will remember him from the 1960s with the Walker Bros singing "The sun ain't gonna shine any more" and "Take it easy on yourself". But he has continued since then to write and record very dark and avant-garde music.
Most recently that I knew of, he recorded with Sunn o)), a drone metal band. Not the sort of music that you would expect a 1960 crooner to be into. My son partly introduced me to Sunn o)), along with the wonderful Mary Anne Hobbs.
So I think there always will be a division between people who like the latest fashions, and those who dismiss them as "not as good as what I used to listen to" (and I loathe the Cowell-pop-clones that are so prevalent today). But this is not necessarily a generational thing.
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Blog
Music for your enjoyment
Lord may all my hard times be healing times
take out this broken heart and renew my mind.
Posts: 18859 | From: At the bottom of a deep dark well. | Registered: May 2001
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Jack the Lass
Ship's airhead
# 3415
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Stetson:
I recall in what must have been 1982, watching a news report about a Rolling Stones tour somewhere, and when they showed footage of Mick Jagger on stage and, well, just being Mick Jagger, my dad(born 1934) opined "This is the kind of crap you kids like today. Just a bunch of screaming and yelling."
This reminded me of watching Top of the Pops in the 1970s when Sham 69's "Hurry up Harry" came on. My dad (a diehard English folkie) (born 1942) was particularly appalled by it, and for years and years afterwards whenever he heard anything on TOTP that he didn't like he'd refer to it as an "'Urry Up 'Arry" song. It could have been New Romantic, R&B, punk, anything, but Hurry Up Harry became his definition of 'Not Proper Music'.
My daughter is only 2, so I have yet to experience the whole "what do YOU know about music, you're so OLD" thing. I am really glad she's finally out of her "Wind the Bobbin Up" phase though. If I never hear that song again it will be too soon.
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"My body is a temple - it's big and doesn't move." (Jo Brand)
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Posts: 5767 | From: the land of the deep-fried Mars Bar | Registered: Oct 2002
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chris stiles
Shipmate
# 12641
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Posted
From observation, musical scenes are far more fragmented these days, and music isn't as central to the identity of every youth scene in the same way as it once was.
Posts: 4035 | From: Berkshire | Registered: May 2007
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
My personal generation gap started with rap. Though it almost started with disco. But I realized girls like disco, so changed my mind. Or decided I did out of cognitive dissonance wrapped up in hormones. We changed the name of our proposed Disco Sucks university club to the Music Appreciation Club which also met requirements for a $25 grant.
We had the World Book Encyclopedia growing up. The 1968 Year Book (an update you subscribed to) quoted Leonard Berstein saying this in review of 1967, the year of Sgt Pepper and Beatles "dressing like girls" (my father's opinion). He was a recreational jazz trumpeter and constantly played all the 1940s stuff, so I developed an affinity. It wasn't hard to understand jazz motifs in Bach and later to broaden my exposure through romantic era music. Country music that doesn't do too much hurtin' to my ears reimagines Beethoven's horse running away with his missus.
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Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
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Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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Schroedinger's cat
Ship's cool cat
# 64
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by chris stiles:
From observation, musical scenes are far more fragmented these days, and music isn't as central to the identity of every youth scene in the same way as it once was.
Definitely true, but I think there is also a related issue that as people get older, they are not necessarily accepting the "maturing" aspects that our parents did. We no longer accept that we have to change our musical likes, fashion styles, habits in the same way.
It always annoys me when organisations - the church being the worst but not the only - like to divide people based on age range, and provide services for specific ages. Most of the time, they actually cater for a specific culture, that probably spans the age ranges far more than they appreciate.
Lets be clear, I am 53, and I like loud, thumping, dance music. That puts me in the same category as late teens/early 20s. It means that whenever I get a chance to be out listening to that, I am the oldest person present by a very long way, usually including the DJ. And I am unashamed of enjoying that.
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Blog
Music for your enjoyment
Lord may all my hard times be healing times
take out this broken heart and renew my mind.
Posts: 18859 | From: At the bottom of a deep dark well. | Registered: May 2001
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chris stiles
Shipmate
# 12641
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
Definitely true, but I think there is also a related issue that as people get older, they are not necessarily accepting the "maturing" aspects that our parents did. We no longer accept that we have to change our musical likes, fashion styles, habits in the same way.
I'm not sure that people really ever (ever being a fairly short timeline in this case) radically changed their musical likes, ISTR a lot of research suggesting that people continued to listen to whatever they listened to in their 20s/college era.
Or do you mean that they don't feel that they have to change their liking of whatever is contemporary? Which I don't think is necessarily contradicted by the music scene becoming more fragmented, and may even be enhanced by it.
I suppose in an earlier era, discovery itself was largely related to ones age cohort - so unless you were a 40/50 year old Q reader you were unlikely to have music presented to you in a way that made it acceptable - whereas these days people discover all sorts of things via extended social networks.
Posts: 4035 | From: Berkshire | Registered: May 2007
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SvitlanaV2
Shipmate
# 16967
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
It always annoys me when organisations - the church being the worst but not the only - like to divide people based on age range, and provide services for specific ages. Most of the time, they actually cater for a specific culture, that probably spans the age ranges far more than they appreciate.
Lets be clear, I am 53, and I like loud, thumping, dance music. That puts me in the same category as late teens/early 20s.
Unfortunately, traditional church music doesn't seem to 'span the age ranges' as much as we would like. Most mainstream churches would be perfectly happy if teens and twentysomethings enjoyed singing hymns, but on the whole they don't.
The churches that use more modern, livelier styles of music attract more young people. It seems unfair to criticise such churches for wanting to appeal to a demographic that's usually absent.
As for me, I've routinely been one of the 'young ones' in trad MOTR churches for most of my life. I'd probably be one of the 'older ones' in a more charismatic church - but IME such churches do have a considerable middle-aged contingent; they're often the parents of the teenagers, so why would the church banish them??
Posts: 6668 | From: UK | Registered: Feb 2012
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Ricardus
Shipmate
# 8757
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Og, King of Bashan:
quote:
Originally posted by Ricardus:
'songs around the piano' and music hall numbers, which are a bit of a development, but not very far outside the tradition.
Some would argue that Paul McCartney falls squarely within this tradition. Yet I'm sure there were many dads steeped in the music hall classics who called it trash.
I'm not really into either. All I can say is that on a visceral level syncopation and a strong beat push different buttons from songs round the piano.
To put it another way: given three pots
A: The Lincolnshire Poacher; Auld Lang Syne
B: Daisy, Daisy; Burlington Bertie from Bow
C: Hard Day's Night; Love Me Do
There is a progression between A and B, but it is nowhere near as dramatic as the difference between B and C. At least in my mind anyway.
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Then the dog ran before, and coming as if he had brought the news, shewed his joy by his fawning and wagging his tail. -- Tobit 11:9 (Douai-Rheims)
Posts: 7247 | From: Liverpool, UK | Registered: Nov 2004
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The Phantom Flan Flinger
Shipmate
# 8891
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Posted
Purely anecdotal, but the 16 - 18 ish year olds from my church that I sometimes give a lift to are quite happy with my mix of Skynyrd, Floyd, XTC et al.
I in turn enjoy listening to some current music - admittedly only the stuff that makes it onto the Radio 2 playlist...
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http://www.faith-hope-and-confusion.com/
Posts: 1020 | From: Leicester, England | Registered: Dec 2004
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Marvin the Martian
Interplanetary
# 4360
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Posted
Growing up, I never had a musical divide with my parents. We used to go to the same gigs together - Metallica, Iron Maiden, Guns N Roses, Def Leppard, Aerosmith, Placebo, Black Sabbath and so forth.
One of my favourite moments with dad was a few years ago when we were getting a train to somewhere and there were some kids playing rather loud generic rap in the carriage. We commented to one another that it was quite loud, and one of them laughed. We then had a chat between ourselves about the great rappers - Snoop, Dre, Tupac, Eminem, etc - and how they had intelligent lyrics and distinctive styles that set them apart, unlike so many wannabe rappers who just copy the same inane beats and lyrics, such as the current entertainment we were being given. The kids turned it off ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif) .
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Hail Gallaxhar
Posts: 30100 | From: Adrift on a sea of surreality | Registered: Apr 2003
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anoesis
Shipmate
# 14189
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Jack the Lass:
My daughter is only 2, so I have yet to experience the whole "what do YOU know about music, you're so OLD" thing. I am really glad she's finally out of her "Wind the Bobbin Up" phase though. If I never hear that song again it will be too soon.
With the disclaimer that this is evidently none of my business, I can't quite make this compute. Although I was born in the 1970s, I don't remember any TV from the period - I was too young. However, if I was any more than a couple of years older than I am, I would be too old to have a two-year old unless I was one very lucky lady. Of course, if Jack the Lass is not actually a Lass, the same rules do not apply...
Oh - and wait until she discovers 'I'm a gummy bear' on YouTube. You will wish for the days of nursery rhymes.
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The history of humanity give one little hope that strength left to its own devices won't be abused. Indeed, it gives one little ground to think that strength would continue to exist if it were not abused. -- Dafyd --
Posts: 993 | From: New Zealand | Registered: Oct 2008
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mark_in_manchester
not waving, but...
# 15978
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Posted
I think the musical generation gap happened once - a singularity - and I don't think it had much to do with music.
My Dad was born in 1942 and went to work in about 1957 (just avoiding national service). It's my strong impression that fate played a nasty trick on his generation - just as he got old enough to stop being young, young became the new old and he was past 'it' without ever having been 'it'.
That is, there was a gap between those who had never been teenagers, and those who had. That gap defined a big slug of youth culture in my growing up (b. 1970). His derision of youth always seemed motivated by envy, looking back, and we despised them in return. Now it has closed again...it's interesting. I wonder if teenagers and their parents today have relations more like those of the 1950s and before - and less like those of the 60s,70s, 80s and 90s.
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"We are punished by our sins, not for them" - Elbert Hubbard
(so good, I wanted to see it after my posts and not only after those of shipmate JBohn from whom I stole it)
Posts: 1596 | Registered: Oct 2010
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Caissa
Shipmate
# 16710
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Posted
As I read this thread I am listening to Trane's Blue Train. My music tastes are pretty catholic except for two genres: country and rap. I have the extreme pleasure of my 19 year old liking country and my 14 year old liking rap. ![[Projectile]](graemlins/puke2.gif) My parents liked show tunes and my father enjoyed country and western. I grew to appreciate these with age although jazz would be my most collected genre. I'm 52.
Posts: 972 | From: Saint John, N.B. | Registered: Oct 2011
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The Phantom Flan Flinger
Shipmate
# 8891
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Posted
Is longevity of music a factor also?
Today, it’s possible to find mainstream outlets playing music from the 80s, 70s & 60s – meaning that people can hear music from those decades alongside today’s stuff.
I’m willing to wager that in the 60s it was difficult, if not impossible to find mainstream outlets for music from the 30s, 20s & 10s – meaning that the two eras seemed far more distant from each other than is now the case.
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http://www.faith-hope-and-confusion.com/
Posts: 1020 | From: Leicester, England | Registered: Dec 2004
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Urfshyne
Shipmate
# 17834
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Posted
Quite a small difference in age can make for a large difference in musical tastes.
I am a toyboy by six years. This meant that I was 14 when Rock & Roll became big in the UK, and I was eager for anything new. My wife, on the other hand, was 20, and her musical tastes were already formed.
I was and am very much into Rock (after Folk and Jazz) but she - no.
I still love all types of music, and at present, are very much into Gogo Penguin.
Posts: 98 | From: Maidenhead - lost | Registered: Sep 2013
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mark_in_manchester
not waving, but...
# 15978
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Posted
I'm not sure about that - in the UK on R2 in the 70s I remember programs aimed at veterans of WW1 (though perhaps it was mainly for WW2 vets, thinking back), complete with 20s and 30s music (British strict tempo dance band stuff, music hall, novelty records etc). Anyone remember Charlie Chester - he did community announcements too 'Albert S. from Doncaster British Legion has a spare wheelchair which he'd like to offer to anyone needing such...'
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"We are punished by our sins, not for them" - Elbert Hubbard
(so good, I wanted to see it after my posts and not only after those of shipmate JBohn from whom I stole it)
Posts: 1596 | Registered: Oct 2010
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Og, King of Bashan
Ship's giant Amorite
# 9562
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ricardus:
All I can say is that on a visceral level syncopation and a strong beat push different buttons from songs round the piano.
To put it another way: given three pots
A: The Lincolnshire Poacher; Auld Lang Syne
B: Daisy, Daisy; Burlington Bertie from Bow
C: Hard Day's Night; Love Me Do
There is a progression between A and B, but it is nowhere near as dramatic as the difference between B and C. At least in my mind anyway.
True. There are a lot of McCartney songs that have American blues influences. But you also cannot deny that "When I'm Sixty-Four" and "Maxwell's Silver Hammer" (both fantastic songs, mind,) wouldn't sound the least bit out of place if played at a boardwalk carousel.
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"I like to eat crawfish and drink beer. That's despair?" ― Walker Percy
Posts: 3259 | From: Denver, Colorado, USA | Registered: May 2005
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Signaller
Shipmate
# 17495
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mark_in_manchester:
I'm not sure about that - in the UK on R2 in the 70s I remember programs aimed at veterans of WW1 (though perhaps it was mainly for WW2 vets, thinking back), complete with 20s and 30s music (British strict tempo dance band stuff, music hall, novelty records etc). Anyone remember Charlie Chester - he did community announcements too 'Albert S. from Doncaster British Legion has a spare wheelchair which he'd like to offer to anyone needing such...'
Charlie Chester went on doing that until 1996.
I (born 1959) spent my teenage years hoping that my contemporaries would grow out of their addiction to over-loud, tuneless rock music, which I hated.
I'm still waiting.
Posts: 113 | From: Metroland | Registered: Jan 2013
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The Phantom Flan Flinger
Shipmate
# 8891
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Og, King of Bashan:
True. There are a lot of McCartney songs that have American blues influences. But you also cannot deny that "When I'm Sixty-Four" and "Maxwell's Silver Hammer" (both fantastic songs, mind,) wouldn't sound the least bit out of place if played at a boardwalk carousel.
McCartney himself has said that he started writing with the ambition to write for Sinatra, and When I'm Sixty-Four was one of his early compositions with that in mind.
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http://www.faith-hope-and-confusion.com/
Posts: 1020 | From: Leicester, England | Registered: Dec 2004
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L'organist
Shipmate
# 17338
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Posted
I think it just comes down to the individual and whether or not they're prepared to listen to a variety of contemporary music.
Variety is the key word because there will always be anomalies in what is 'popular' - and what is really in favour at any given time is now much harder to ascertain. In the days of widespread record buying (both albums and singles) this was easier to see for two reasons: first, if people wanted to listen to a favoured artist they could buy a single very cheaply; second, if they were interested in music by acts that weren't releasing singles or on 'approved' playlists they had to buy the album. This meant that the variety of acts in with records in the top 30 was much wider than it is today when looking at the streaming data.
Taking 1970, for example: the albums wthat achieved the number 1 spot more than once were released by by Led Zeppelin, Simon and Garfunkel and Andy Williams. Other artists to get to number 1 included The Beatles, Rolling Stones, Bob Dylan and Black Sabbath.
The singles charts spread even wider: Jimi Hendrix's Voodoo Chile was knocked off the number 1 spot by Dave Edmunds with I hear you knocking, and Dana and the England football team had number 1 hits the same year.
I think what may have happened is that a lot of people stopped buying albums or singles at a certain time of life - often when they either got a mortgage or when they had a baby - and so the music they listened to at home stuck at a particular point.
Me? My album collection has everyone from Bachman Turner Overdrive to Sinatra, via Acker Bilk, Beatles, Stones, Electric Prunes, Focus, Led Zeppelin, Byrds, Coldplay, Dudley Moore Trio, Chris Barber, Bobby Brown, Snoop Dogg and George Michael - and I still have far more classical than 'popular'.
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Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet
Posts: 4950 | From: somewhere in England... | Registered: Sep 2012
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Liopleurodon
Mighty sea creature
# 4836
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Posted
I don't think there's anything particularly weird about this. I think there has been research done (by Robert Sapolsky, but probably others as well) that indicates that people often lay down their tastes in music in their teens and then the amount of new stuff they add to it tends to slow down as they go into their twenties and beyond. Young people are novelty seeking. Older people tend to know what they like and are novelty averse. (A general trend doesn't apply to every single person of course.)
My own tastes in music follow pretty much this pattern. I tend to like soul / funk type stuff from the 1960s and 1970s. I'm not the right age for that (I was born in 1980) but I got into it in my late teens and it's stuck around. I also enjoy some 1990s music, although not as much as I did at the time, and a fair bit of classical music that I've come into contact with through choral singing.
So to return to the OP: I can well imagine someone being really into Chuck Berry but not registering the Stones. If your dad was born in 1934 he'd be in his 30s by the time the Stones got anywhere. Musically, many of us are set in our ways by then. I certainly don't know much about what's popular at the moment.
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Our God is an awesome God. Much better than that ridiculous God that Desert Bluffs has. - Welcome to Night Vale
Posts: 1921 | From: Lurking under the ship | Registered: Aug 2003
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Lyda*Rose
Ship's broken porthole
# 4544
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Posted
I was into the usual sixties and seventies pop/rock as a teen and young adult. I still like a lot of it, but some tunes have worn thin, like some motifs have (I could live my life without seeing another pop daisy or hot orange and lime green combined into a design).
As I've grown older, the influence of singing classical pieces in choir has steered me toward classical music, especially baroque. This was a nice meeting place for my father and me. We went to the local symphony each season. He was a big fan of Mozart.
He actually liked the Beatles, but he liked Perry Como more. ![[Tear]](graemlins/tear.gif) Loud, rough music was filed under the heading of "protest music". Didn't like the politics, didn't like the music. He especially disliked Bruce Springstein for some reason.
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"Dear God, whose name I do not know - thank you for my life. I forgot how BIG... thank you. Thank you for my life." ~from Joe Vs the Volcano
Posts: 21377 | From: CA | Registered: May 2003
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Stetson
Shipmate
# 9597
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Og, King of Bashan:
quote:
Originally posted by Ricardus:
'songs around the piano' and music hall numbers, which are a bit of a development, but not very far outside the tradition.
Some would argue that Paul McCartney falls squarely within this tradition. Yet I'm sure there were many dads steeped in the music hall classics who called it trash.
Well, the McCartney canon runs the gamut from When I'm 64 to Helter Skelter, and even those two examples are just culled from a two-year period in the 1960s, never mind getting into Wings and later.
I think my dad would have thought When I'm 64 was a great song, especially if he heard it on one of the Easy Listening stations that he frequented. Helter Skelter he would have almost certainly dismissed as "the kind of crap you kids like today", even if he had heard it in the 80s.
Granted, Helter Skelter is a bit of an outlier in the McCartney opus, so it's probably safe to say that, on average, he made the most seamless transition of all the Beatles to Silent Generation appeal.
quote:
There are a lot of McCartney songs that have American blues influences. But you also cannot deny that "When I'm Sixty-Four" and "Maxwell's Silver Hammer" (both fantastic songs, mind,) wouldn't sound the least bit out of place if played at a boardwalk carousel.
This film was widely derided as a piece of sellout trash(well, as much as you can sell out without making any money), but in some ways, scenes like that one were probably just a case of McCartney coming home.
Posts: 6574 | From: back and forth between bible belts | Registered: Jun 2005
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Jolly Jape
Shipmate
# 3296
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Posted
My youngest son is 26. He's a drummer, and has very eclectic tastes in music, ranging from Sinatra through 60s and 70s pop, Madness, The Specials, Stone Roses, Oasis.... You get the picture.
It would have been inconceivable that someone born in the 50s (like myself) or 60s would have included music from 10 to 20 years before their birth (eg the aformentioned Sinatra) in their musical tastes, yet here we have a generation (I don't believe my son is at all unusual amongst his peers) who will happily include music from 70 years ago, or 40 years before their birth, within their music collection.
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To those who have never seen the flow and ebb of God's grace in their lives, it means nothing. To those who have seen it, even fleetingly, even only once - it is life itself. (Adeodatus)
Posts: 3011 | From: A village of gardens | Registered: Sep 2002
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Jack the Lass
Ship's airhead
# 3415
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by anoesis:
quote:
Originally posted by Jack the Lass:
My daughter is only 2, so I have yet to experience the whole "what do YOU know about music, you're so OLD" thing. I am really glad she's finally out of her "Wind the Bobbin Up" phase though. If I never hear that song again it will be too soon.
With the disclaimer that this is evidently none of my business, I can't quite make this compute. Although I was born in the 1970s, I don't remember any TV from the period - I was too young. However, if I was any more than a couple of years older than I am, I would be too old to have a two-year old unless I was one very lucky lady. Of course, if Jack the Lass is not actually a Lass, the same rules do not apply...
Oh - and wait until she discovers 'I'm a gummy bear' on YouTube. You will wish for the days of nursery rhymes.
No worries ![[Smile]](smile.gif) I was born in 1969, so late 70s telly is something I do remember (helped by the fact that the telly was on The Whole Time when I was growing up). I was a bit more of a late bloomer when it came to childbirth though - I had my daughter in my mid-40s.
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"My body is a temple - it's big and doesn't move." (Jo Brand)
wiblog blipfoto blog
Posts: 5767 | From: the land of the deep-fried Mars Bar | Registered: Oct 2002
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L'organist
Shipmate
# 17338
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Posted
posted by Jolly Jape quote:
It would have been inconceivable that someone born in the 50s (like myself) or 60s would have included music from 10 to 20 years before their birth (eg the aformentioned Sinatra) in their musical tastes...
That is simply not true. I know I'm not the only child of the 50s who has appreciated Sinatra since the 1960s, and the reason for that is that the man had talent. In the same vein, Ray Charles' recording of Hit the road, Jack was not only a hit when originally released (1961) but has acquired a following in the decades since then.
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Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet
Posts: 4950 | From: somewhere in England... | Registered: Sep 2012
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Anyuta
Shipmate
# 14692
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Posted
My parents were from a different place and time.. so different that their tastes in music could have been my great-great-great grandparent's tastes (well, OK, that's an exaggeration, but seriously.. rock was something entirely out of their sphere).
My dad could not have told you the name of a single band I listened to. Mom could name a very few, and generally got them wrong.
My kids however listen to "my" music. if you look at my daughter's collection and mine, there will be a great deal of overlap. I recognise some (not all) of the bands she listens to that are more current, and she recognizes almost all of my music.
MY son listens to a lot more stuff that I couldn't begin to recognize, other than "I don't like it". I have the reaction my parents had to my music.. i.e. "just yelling". he listens to a lot of metal and rap. He does ALSO however listen to a lot of "classic rock", which currently includes a lot of the bands I listened to.. certainly the more "hard" music. He doesn't share my love of John Denver and Simon and Garfunkel, but he does like Pink Floyd, Jethro Tull and Queen (all my faves as a youth).
Without a doubt the difference in musical taste between me and my parents is a HUGE abyss, whereas the difference between my kids and myself is barely a sidewalk crack, and the tastes of my two kids (who are 6 years apart) are more different from each other than either is from me.
And none of us like the "top 40" pop that plays on the radio today.
Posts: 764 | From: USA | Registered: Mar 2009
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Stetson
Shipmate
# 9597
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Posted
Anyuta wrote:
quote:
My dad could not have told you the name of a single band I listened to. Mom could name a very few, and generally got them wrong.
My parents knew, and quite liked, ABBA, which my sister listened to. But they were a group with one foot in disco and another in easy listening.
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I have the power...Lucifer is lord!
Posts: 6574 | From: back and forth between bible belts | Registered: Jun 2005
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Timothy the Obscure
Mostly Friendly
# 292
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Posted
I was born in 1953, and my musical awakening came with the Beatles--I remember some popular music before that, but it wasn't important to me except as I retroactively discovered early rock & roll. Being historically inclined, I did investigate earlier music, and now listen to a lot of blues from the '20s and '30s. It strikes me that the timespan from the first big hit pop records (about 1917) to the early proto-rock records is about 30-35 years. It's about twice as long from then till now, and stylistically, pop music has changed much less in the last 60 years than it did in the previous 30. Carl Perkins heard punk rock as a kind of rockabilly revival. Hip-hop is quite recognizably linked to '60-'70s funk (still recycling James Brown grooves), and EDM fans who weren't born in the 1970s still know who Kraftwerk was. My kids (who admittedly grew up in an environment full of a wider variety of music than average) have pretty broad tastes, historically speaking,and my daughter, especially, has introduced me to a lot of newer stuff--too which my response is often, "not bad, but I've heard it before--it's pretty much like what [insert 60s-70s artist] was doing back in the day." Whereas someone who grew up with Glenn Miller would likely have been baffled and outraged by Little Richard (as many were). If there's less of a generation gap, I think it's because popular music has changed far less in the past 60 years than it did in just the 25 years from, say 1940-1965.
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When you think of the long and gloomy history of man, you will find more hideous crimes have been committed in the name of obedience than have ever been committed in the name of rebellion.
- C. P. Snow
Posts: 6114 | From: PDX | Registered: May 2001
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
The Guess Who played continuously in Winnipeg. Bus booze cruises to concerts were a constant. These days Randy Bachman's Vinyl Tap plays on CBC 1 and 2. Recommended.
The Peg was a hard rockin town in the 70s. Lots of Chevy vans with teardrops, and fuzzy dice hanging from the rearview. I knew guys who'd wear a black tshirt with an empty deck of tailor mades in the sleeve just to look cool. Many would practice rolling Drum in Zigzags so they wouldn't waste dope rolling doobies.
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Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
\_(ツ)_/
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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Jolly Jape
Shipmate
# 3296
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:
posted by Jolly Jape quote:
It would have been inconceivable that someone born in the 50s (like myself) or 60s would have included music from 10 to 20 years before their birth (eg the aformentioned Sinatra) in their musical tastes...
That is simply not true. I know I'm not the only child of the 50s who has appreciated Sinatra since the 1960s, and the reason for that is that the man had talent. In the same vein, Ray Charles' recording of Hit the road, Jack was not only a hit when originally released (1961) but has acquired a following in the decades since then.
You might well be not unique, but I would guess you're pretty rare. Myself, I'm ambivalent about Ol Blue Eyes. I think he had great timing, and an awesome playfulness with rhythm, (which probably accounts for my son's affection for his music) but I really found his preference for sliding into a note rather than hitting it in the centre somewhat irritating, and I really didn't understand the liberties he took with both the lyrics and the melody, jazz tropes though they might be, at all. It always seemed a bit "clever clever", a barrier rather than an enhancement to musical communication. My opinion - YMMV.
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To those who have never seen the flow and ebb of God's grace in their lives, it means nothing. To those who have seen it, even fleetingly, even only once - it is life itself. (Adeodatus)
Posts: 3011 | From: A village of gardens | Registered: Sep 2002
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Stetson
Shipmate
# 9597
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Posted
Timothy wrote:
quote:
If there's less of a generation gap, I think it's because popular music has changed far less in the past 60 years than it did in just the 25 years from, say 1940-1965.
Yeah, just as an example, but if you listened to the entirety of the White Album in 1968, you were hearing pretty much everything from music-hall(Honey Pie) to hillbilly(Don't Pass Me By) to heavy metal(Helter Skelter). And since each of those genres bears a passing resemblance to at least half a dozen others, there really wasn't a lot that you could hear later that would seem alien to you, even if you didn't neccessarily like it all.
Granted, that particular album is a little more ecletic than most, but still, kind of representative as to just how cosmopolitan the average Boomer's exposure to musical styles had gotten.
[ 20. July 2016, 23:14: Message edited by: Stetson ]
Posts: 6574 | From: back and forth between bible belts | Registered: Jun 2005
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Og: Thread Killer
Ship's token CN Mennonite
# 3200
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Posted
Music has splintered so much that people can listen to whatever they want exclusively without gatekeepers. But there are still pop hits pipelines directed at teens and other pipelines directed at other age groups (including classical music stations playing soundtrack music).
As for how I divide my tastes in popular music:
the 60's were before my time
there wasn't much good in the 70's but some stuff is on my Spotify playlists
the 80's was school and uni so a lot of nostalgia related to events and enjoyment of stuff that most people didn't listen to - Fish era Marillion for example
BUT, my real listening pleasure is alternative music - the non-pop music of my 30's to today.
My go to radio station is the local alternative station, and CBC Radio 2's alt stuff after 3:30.
I think the generational dividers will always be there in that people will like to hear that which they discovered at a certain time in their lives. BUT, the idea that once you get past a certain age you can't listen to today's music to me is just bull puckey.
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I wish I was seeking justice loving mercy and walking humbly but... "Cease to lament for that thou canst not help, And study help for that which thou lament'st."
Posts: 5025 | From: Toronto | Registered: Aug 2002
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Og: Thread Killer:
I think the generational dividers will always be there in that people will like to hear that which they discovered at a certain time in their lives. BUT, the idea that once you get past a certain age you can't listen to today's music to me is just bull puckey.
I like this last para, but take exception to the comment about the 70's. Yes, some dreadful stuff came out of that era; rubbish like Starland Vocal Band, disco and (shudder) DJs. But some fantastic music was part as well. Hendrix, Santana, Queen, Creedence, Parliament, Sly and the Family Stone, Bootsie Collins, Al Green, The Eagles, etc.
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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Gramps49
Shipmate
# 16378
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Posted
I remember listening to some of the crooners my parents loved as a young child, but I can't deny it that the music introduced by Elvis Presley became my music which was expanded time and time again by the Beatles, the Rolling Stones and the like. I also dabbled in Folk songs and folk rock. I never really got into Western Country Music--but it is a genre that my eldest son really likes maybe as a dig to me. Been through Hard Rock, Heavy Metal, Disco, Techno Rock. Even as I have gotten older my tastes have expanded quite a bit--some rap to some classical.
Our schools have strong music programs in Jazz. Three of my kids know how to do improvisational jazz because of the teacher they shared. They all competed in a Regional Jazz Competition dedicated to Lionel Hamptom. In fact, they all got to meet him while in High School. I do think this has opened them up to many different types of music as well.
It will be interesting what my grandkids will buy into.
Recently a group of us met with some millennials and talked with them about what type of church music they prefer. They all panned what would be known as praise bands because they said there is no depth to the music. They actually prefer a more world beat, music from different cultures mixed into the same liturgy.
For instance, our congregation's favorite piece actually has a middle eastern--Arabic liturgy. We will mix in African drums, a cello, French and Spanish songs. Also songs that have originated in Japan, China and Australia/New Zealand are also thrown in from time to time.
Posts: 2193 | From: Pullman WA | Registered: Apr 2011
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Ricardus
Shipmate
# 8757
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Og, King of Bashan:
True. There are a lot of McCartney songs that have American blues influences. But you also cannot deny that "When I'm Sixty-Four" and "Maxwell's Silver Hammer" (both fantastic songs, mind,) wouldn't sound the least bit out of place if played at a boardwalk carousel.
I take your point. So maybe it is not a case of the earlier tradition being annihilated, but having so many extra ingredients thrown into it that it becomes (in many cases) almost unrecognisable.
My understanding is that these extra ingredients come ultimately from the influence of African-American music, and specifically from the fact that European music has traditionally been rather unimaginative regarding rhythm while African music has not. My feeling is that there is unlikely to be another such wave of extra ingredients because there is nowhere for such ingredients to come from.
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Then the dog ran before, and coming as if he had brought the news, shewed his joy by his fawning and wagging his tail. -- Tobit 11:9 (Douai-Rheims)
Posts: 7247 | From: Liverpool, UK | Registered: Nov 2004
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Timothy the Obscure
Mostly Friendly
# 292
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Posted
My last band that was a serious attempt at "making it" (late 80s-early 90s) was based on the premise that after Paul Simon and Peter Gabriel, the next big thing was rock finally becoming a true world music and incorporating all those African and Asian influences... Instead we got grunge. Not that it was bad music, but it was fundamentally reactionary, yet another example of rock "progressing" by reviving past glories rather than reaching out for new influences. Really, rock is the most conservative popular music ever. Since about 1969, every major new trend has been a revival.
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When you think of the long and gloomy history of man, you will find more hideous crimes have been committed in the name of obedience than have ever been committed in the name of rebellion.
- C. P. Snow
Posts: 6114 | From: PDX | Registered: May 2001
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Stetson
Shipmate
# 9597
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Posted
Timothy wrote:
quote:
Really, rock is the most conservative popular music ever. Since about 1969, every major new trend has been a revival.
Some would argue the most narcissistic, as well. I mean, think of how many rock songs there are that are ABOUT rock music itself.
Not that some of those aren't good songs(though I could probably have done without Twisted Sister's I Wanna Rock), but I doubt that any other genre has as many self-glorifying tunes in its canon. Are there a lot of opera tunes about how great opera is, for example?
[ 21. July 2016, 11:46: Message edited by: Stetson ]
Posts: 6574 | From: back and forth between bible belts | Registered: Jun 2005
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Jolly Jape
Shipmate
# 3296
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by The Phantom Flan Flinger:
quote:
Originally posted by Jolly Jape:
My youngest son is 26. He's a drummer
My condolences ![[Biased]](wink.gif)
Actually, I love him to bits. And he's a seriously talented musician. (I have to say that, 'cause he's 6'3" to my 5'6, and built like the proverbial masonry public convenience.)
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To those who have never seen the flow and ebb of God's grace in their lives, it means nothing. To those who have seen it, even fleetingly, even only once - it is life itself. (Adeodatus)
Posts: 3011 | From: A village of gardens | Registered: Sep 2002
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Stetson
Shipmate
# 9597
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Posted
quote:
Instead we got grunge. Not that it was bad music, but it was fundamentally reactionary, yet another example of rock "progressing" by reviving past glories rather than reaching out for new influences.
I think, though, that there were a couple of things about grunge(and I'm basing this largely on Nirvana) that distinguished it somewhat from most previous manifestations of rock.
Specifically, its general asexuality, and its defeatist tone. You didn't get the impression that too many oldsters would worry that Kurt Cobain was gonna ravish their daughters and burn down the schools. Though he may(or may not) have done a bit of the former, at least privately, it wasn't really part of the projected persona.
I could make the same broad observation about a lot of the music that came afterwards, like for example that Blind Melon song about being so depressed all you can do is sleep all day.
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I have the power...Lucifer is lord!
Posts: 6574 | From: back and forth between bible belts | Registered: Jun 2005
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L'organist
Shipmate
# 17338
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Posted
Maybe if people looked beyond the English speaking world? Try looking at people like Les Negresses Vertes, especially the stuff they produced in the 90s, or try Casa Babylon by Mano Negra.
I've been trying to have a cull of my CDs and have unearthed all kinds of treasure - at the moment I'm listening to a beautiful CD by Paulinho Moska, a fantastically talented Brazilian. Much of my 'broader' collection is a legacy of the days when I used to travel a lot and always bought music in the country where I was, rather than lugging CDs about; the intention was to dump them at the airport or leave them in the hotel but somehow they made it back to the UK!
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Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet
Posts: 4950 | From: somewhere in England... | Registered: Sep 2012
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Og, King of Bashan
Ship's giant Amorite
# 9562
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ricardus:
My understanding is that these extra ingredients come ultimately from the influence of African-American music, and specifically from the fact that European music has traditionally been rather unimaginative regarding rhythm while African music has not. My feeling is that there is unlikely to be another such wave of extra ingredients because there is nowhere for such ingredients to come from.
I would tend to agree. Although I will say that you still see quite a bit of segregation on American radio. I tend to favor traditionally Black musical genres, and it is pretty hard to find much of that on radio here. The best adult contemporary station here will play a bit of Reggae here and there, but it tends to be Bob or Ziggy Marley, Michael Franti, one song by Toots and the Maytals, and one song by Peter Tosh, the one where he plays with the Rolling Stones. If I want deeper cuts, I have to listen to the once a week show on a local public station with a Jamaican DJ. Same goes for Blues- the same station will play maybe one or two BB King songs, Eric Clapton, and Stevie Ray Vaughan, but if you want to hear Muddy Waters, Bo Diddly, or contemporary blues singers, you have to listen to the public Jazz station, which mostly has Black or Latino DJs. There are certainly hip hop stations, including throwback, which I love, but we also have at least one pop station that advertises "All of today's hot music, with no Rap!".
I suspect that musical boundary breakdown probably coincided with the beginning of racial boundary breakdown, but I think both boundary breakdowns have some room to go.
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"I like to eat crawfish and drink beer. That's despair?" ― Walker Percy
Posts: 3259 | From: Denver, Colorado, USA | Registered: May 2005
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