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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: In Memoriam: Sir Oswald Mosley
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Callan
Shipmate
# 525
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Posted
A Keynesian who rejected the timid orthodoxy of the Labour Party, a man of peace who worked tirelessly to find an understanding with Germany, a man of principle who suffered imprisonment for his sincerely held beliefs. The victim of snobbery among the Aristocracy who failed to recognise his Baronetcy as a legitimate noble title.
If I were to post this nonsense in Purgatory I would (rightly) get short shrift. If I were to post it in Hell I would (equally rightly) get my arse handed to me on a plate. If I were to post it in All Saints, based on Lothlorien's ruling on the Love In for dearly departed Fidel Castro I would, apparently, get a free pass.
If people want to post eulogies for their favourite politician shouldn't they have the guts to do so in Purgatory or Hell? Particularly when the politician in question operates outside the usual democratic norms? A cursory glance at the thread in question indicates that the participatees seem strangely unwilling to champion their man in the lists in the Purgatory Thread. If political types want to air their views on a politician shouldn't it be shunted over to Purgatory forthwith? (Or Hell, if Nigel Farage keels over from cirrhosis of the liver in the next few weeks). Is All Saints the venue for people who want to hold controversial views but not be challenged for them?
Perhaps the supporters of Communist Dictators should set up their own private boards. Provisional title: You Can't Make An Omelette Without Breaking Eggs.
[ 27. November 2016, 15:52: Message edited by: Callan ]
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How easy it would be to live in England, if only one did not love her. - G.K. Chesterton
Posts: 9757 | From: Citizen of the World | Registered: Jun 2001
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
I started the Castro thread in Purgatory because I did not think the level of adulation in All Saints was inappropriate and inaccurate for a figure such as Castro.
However, All Saints isn't for judging and as much as I disagree with the tone in that thread, I don't see it as violating the spirit of that board. The Purg thread can perfectly coexist, indeed as many topics do there and in Hell.
It is the beauty of the multiple boards.
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
Dagnabit! I do think the level inappropriate and inaccurate. But acceptable for AS.
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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Gee D
Shipmate
# 13815
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Posted
This might be an appropriate thread and board to make 2 comments.
1 If my failure to respond with suitable grief to Castro's death was against the spirit of All Saints, it seems to me that Uncle Pete's second post was similarly against the spirit of that Board and as worthy of hostly comment.
2. Uncle Pete said "Private messages don't do any good; but I started this thread in AS for a reason" which carries an implication that Callan and I did not respond to PMs he had sent us. I can't speak for Callan, but I received no PM from Uncle Pete.
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Not every Anglican in Sydney is Sydney Anglican
Posts: 7028 | From: Warrawee NSW Australia | Registered: Jun 2008
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Callan
Shipmate
# 525
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Posted
I did receive a PM but didn't respond to it immediately because I had gone out for an hour or so to do some shopping. Clearly I'm a decadent capitalist. Bite me.
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How easy it would be to live in England, if only one did not love her. - G.K. Chesterton
Posts: 9757 | From: Citizen of the World | Registered: Jun 2001
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Lothlorien
Ship's Grandma
# 4927
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Posted
Gee D, I made no specific reference to shipmates as I did not know if there had been any PMs exchanged. There were several shipmates and I thought a broad reference was better than signalling out names in particular. I referred to the general tone of the purpose of the thread and to keep to that in any future posts.
Just a general reminder all round.
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Buy a bale. Help our Aussie rural communities and farmers. Another great cause needing support The High Country Patrol.
Posts: 9745 | From: girt by sea | Registered: Aug 2003
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Lothlorien
Ship's Grandma
# 4927
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Posted
quote:
If I were to post this nonsense in Purgatory I would (rightly) get short shrift. If I were to post it in Hell I would (equally rightly) get my arse handed to me on a plate. If I were to post it in All Saints, based on Lothlorien's ruling on the Love In for dearly departed Fidel Castro I would, apparently, get a free pass.
Calllan, In Memoriam threads are not a Love in as you suggest, but neither are they places for attacks. I would not be happy with your paragraph which you think is suitable. It is possible to be polite and to note someone's death without expressing opinions which could be debated in other boards.
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Buy a bale. Help our Aussie rural communities and farmers. Another great cause needing support The High Country Patrol.
Posts: 9745 | From: girt by sea | Registered: Aug 2003
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Welease Woderwick
Sister Incubus Nightmare
# 10424
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Posted
I think a useful rule for memorial threads is that if you have nothing useful to add then saying nothing is generally more useful.
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I give thanks for unknown blessings already on their way.
Fancy a break in South India?
Accessible Homestay Guesthouse in Central Kerala, contact me for details
What part of Matt. 7:1 don't you understand?
Posts: 48139 | From: 1st on the right, straight on 'til morning | Registered: Sep 2005
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Gee D
Shipmate
# 13815
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Posted
Is it only praise which is useful then, rather than some unpleasant truths?
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Not every Anglican in Sydney is Sydney Anglican
Posts: 7028 | From: Warrawee NSW Australia | Registered: Jun 2008
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
I think it means that both are appropriate for the Ship, just in different places.
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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Callan
Shipmate
# 525
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Lothlorien:
quote:
If I were to post this nonsense in Purgatory I would (rightly) get short shrift. If I were to post it in Hell I would (equally rightly) get my arse handed to me on a plate. If I were to post it in All Saints, based on Lothlorien's ruling on the Love In for dearly departed Fidel Castro I would, apparently, get a free pass.
Calllan, In Memoriam threads are not a Love in as you suggest, but neither are they places for attacks. I would not be happy with your paragraph which you think is suitable. It is possible to be polite and to note someone's death without expressing opinions which could be debated in other boards.
What exactly, is the difference for my eulogy for Sir Oswald and Uncle Pete's eulogy for Castro (Cuba was lucky to have him for 55 years, forsooth!) beyond the fact that my version was obviously intended to be facetious and Uncle Pete's wasn't?
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How easy it would be to live in England, if only one did not love her. - G.K. Chesterton
Posts: 9757 | From: Citizen of the World | Registered: Jun 2001
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Doc Tor
Deepest Red
# 9748
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Posted
If you thought that his comments on Castro were beyond the pale, you could have called him to Hell - even from All Saints.
And that's why you're wrong. It might rankle to see an unchallenged, broadly positive comment regarding someone who you didn't like in life. But it's not like you can't challenge it. You can. Just not in AS. Pick your board and have at it.
Edited to add: and had you posted such a eulogy in AS for Mosley, I would have called you to Hell myself.
[ 28. November 2016, 08:45: Message edited by: Doc Tor ]
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Forward the New Republic
Posts: 9131 | From: Ultima Thule | Registered: Jul 2005
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Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:
If you thought that his comments on Castro were beyond the pale, you could have called him to Hell - even from All Saints.
My thoughts exactly, but Doc Tor beat me to posting them.
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Let's remember that we are to build the Kingdom of God, not drive people away - pastor Frank Pomeroy
Posts: 17944 | From: 528491 | Registered: Jul 2002
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Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081
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Posted
On the face of it, not, and my post doesn't say that it is.
However, the wording of your post (and the fact that you linked to Uncle Pete's post in the way you did, rather than actually quoting the contentious opinion) suggests to me that you may well be mad with him and where he posted rather than with his views.
In which case Hell is the appropriate venue, as suggested above by Doc Tor and agreed by me.
If I'm wrong, then carry on in Purgatory by all means. But if it goes downhill fast, don't say I didn't warn you.
[ 28. November 2016, 13:37: Message edited by: Eutychus ]
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Let's remember that we are to build the Kingdom of God, not drive people away - pastor Frank Pomeroy
Posts: 17944 | From: 528491 | Registered: Jul 2002
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RuthW
liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13
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Posted
I have no idea how you drew a conclusion about my state of mind based on my posting a link instead of a quote.
Posts: 24453 | From: La La Land | Registered: Apr 2001
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mdijon
Shipmate
# 8520
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Eutychus:
But if it goes downhill fast, don't say I didn't warn you.
If (whenever) Purgatory goes downhill rapidly the last thing on my mind will be to shout out "But Eutychus didn't warn us."
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mdijon nojidm uoɿıqɯ ɯqıɿou
ɯqıɿou uoɿıqɯ nojidm mdijon
Posts: 12277 | From: UK | Registered: Sep 2004
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Callan
Shipmate
# 525
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:
If you thought that his comments on Castro were beyond the pale, you could have called him to Hell - even from All Saints.
And that's why you're wrong. It might rankle to see an unchallenged, broadly positive comment regarding someone who you didn't like in life. But it's not like you can't challenge it. You can. Just not in AS. Pick your board and have at it.
Edited to add: and had you posted such a eulogy in AS for Mosley, I would have called you to Hell myself.
Thus far he hasn't turned up on the Purgatory thread, nor on Marvin's Hell Call. Nor does he have to. As things stand he can start a thread saying how fortunate Cuba was to have Uncle Fidel for the last 55 years and if he doesn't have the guts to defend it he can hide behind the convention of All Saints being a safe space. I have no problem with the concept of All Saints being a safe space or with the concept of safe spaces in general. I do have a problem with people abusing safe spaces to make points which ought to be made in contested spaces. Hence my point - if people want to pull that sort of stunt the hosts ought to punt it to Purgatory or Hell. I have no doubt that you would have called me to Hell over Sir Oswald but then, I wouldn't have, should I have felt the need to eulogise the old fascist, hidden in All Saints originally.
I'm not a great poster in All Saints but I recognise that it serves an important function. But I don't think that it exists to allow gutless wonders to hide from legitimate criticism.
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How easy it would be to live in England, if only one did not love her. - G.K. Chesterton
Posts: 9757 | From: Citizen of the World | Registered: Jun 2001
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Piglet
Islander
# 11803
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Welease Woderwick:
I think a useful rule for memorial threads is that if you have nothing useful to add then saying nothing is generally more useful.
I agree.
While my politics didn't coincide with Castro's, I see no harm in a simple "in memoriam" thread for him, and as others have said, there are other places on the Ship where less complimentary views may be expressed.
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I may not be on an island any more, but I'm still an islander.
alto n a soprano who can read music
Posts: 20272 | From: Fredericton, NB, on a rather larger piece of rock | Registered: Sep 2006
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
I've been looking for Simon Hoggart's article on the death of Richard Nixon. He didn't spare him much. He acknowledged that it was customary to do so but in this instance he couldn't.
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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Doc Tor
Deepest Red
# 9748
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Callan:
I'm not a great poster in All Saints but I recognise that it serves an important function. But I don't think that it exists to allow gutless wonders to hide from legitimate criticism.
I'm not going to agree or disagree with you here. But I am going to say that the separation of functions for each of the boards has generally served us well in the past, and probably will do continue to do so in the future.
That there are anomalies that might require a reappraisal of the rules is acknowledged - in my relatively short time as host, I've been impressed at the way the H&As have been both reactive and proactive at discussing changes as to the way the boards are run, both generally and specifically. There will always be a tension between promoting unrest and wanting an orderly board.
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Forward the New Republic
Posts: 9131 | From: Ultima Thule | Registered: Jul 2005
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Gee D
Shipmate
# 13815
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Posted
As a matter of fairness, Uncle Pete has now sent a PM to me, which I have accepted as an apology for his implication.
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Not every Anglican in Sydney is Sydney Anglican
Posts: 7028 | From: Warrawee NSW Australia | Registered: Jun 2008
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RuthW
liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:
But I am going to say that the separation of functions for each of the boards has generally served us well in the past, and probably will do continue to do so in the future.
Only if people respect them, which Uncle Pete did not.
Posts: 24453 | From: La La Land | Registered: Apr 2001
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