quote:

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RuthW said: Americans are not all exactly the same. Please learn to tell us apart. Perhaps we should issue a field guide.

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I propose we start the field guide(s) here. Please list items to be included in the "Field Guide to Americans" and "Field Guide to the British"

Please remember where you are.....

[ 30. March 2004, 05:22: Message edited by: Coot W*nkMeister Eckhardt ]
 

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Posted by Campbellite (# 1202) on :
 
Field Guide to Americans (for our British cousins)

Not all Americans are "Y*nkees". For those of us south of the Mason-Dixon, calling someone a y*nkee is fightin' words.

Y*nkees - can't live with 'em, can't shoot 'em. Well, not any more.
 

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Posted by zephirine of the roses (# 3323) on :
 
our southern neighbors have cute accents and freak out when they see a snowflake. (closing down the towns and stocking up on milk and bread)

*~~~~ducking and running
 

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Posted by MarkthePunk (# 683) on :
 
Our flakey astral-projected organic California cousins do things like rendering $20 billion verdicts against eeevil tobacco companies, voting for Barbara Boxer, and eating tofu. Their flakiness is contagious and eventually infects other Americans, Texans excepted.

Texans like to shoot things, including Californians.
 

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Posted by golden_key (# 1468) on :
 
American cookies = Britich biscuits

British cookies = American dog biscuits

American biscuits = Don't know the British equiv.
 

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Posted by Chip Unicorn (# 3355) on :
 
Californian (L.A.): Obsessed with thinness, following strange religions, status, and the right parties. Unless they're not in the movie business.

Californian (Silicon Valley): Thick glasses, minty green skin from computers, fascination with all things computerish, and currently out of work.

Californian (San Francisco): Wildly left-wing compared to the rest of the country. Called liberals, radicals, or socialists by anyone outside of that area of California. In short, a place liberal enough in the United States that it would politically be among the center of the Tories, rather than the Thatcherite wing.
 

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Posted by Scot (# 2095) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by MarkthePunk:
Texans like to shoot things, including Californians.

---

Of course some Californians shoot back. And we can do it from a car moving 70 mph on the freeway.
 

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Posted by Zach82 (# 3208) on :
 
Field Guide to Americans- Everyone from outside the Midwest is FREAKIN' INSANE!

Zach
 

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Posted by logician (# 3266) on :
 
There is actually a great book on the subject, The Nine Nations of North America by Joel Garreau. Published in 1984, it's a touch dated. Premise: there are 9 nations in NA, not three plus a bunch of small islands, each with its own attitudes, capital, economy, etc. I knew immediately that this guy knew what he was talking about when he cut off southwestern Connecticut from New England and put it with New York.

1. New England, including the Canadian Maritimes and excluding Hartford and below. Cap. Boston

2. The Foundry, running across the top of the US and the bottom of Canada from New Haven to Chicago. (Manhattan is an anamoly) Cap. Detroit

3. Dixie, creeping up into the bottom of Indiana and Southernillinois, but excluding the southern half of Florida. Cap. Atlanta

4. The Islands. Southern Fla to the north coast of South America. Cap. Miami

5. The Breadbasket. The Great Plains, the Midwest, whatever, including the southern halves of Alberta, Saskatchewan. Cap. Kansas City.

6. Ecotopia (also called Cascadia) West of the moutains from San Jose to Juneau. Cap. Seattle

7. Quebec, the only nation following political boundaries

8. Mexamerica, with dual capitals at Houston and LA.

9. The Empty Quarter. Everything else, with untapped minerals, huge forests. Capital. Denver.

I could draw a British culture map for 1600, because of how it imnfluenced American settlement, but I couldn't even begin to draw one for 2000. I would love to know the inside skinny on the "real" regions of the UK.
 

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Posted by The Wanderer (# 182) on :
 
An American friend, studying in Durham for a year, commented:
"At home a scarf is a fashion item. Here you wear them to keep warm!"
 

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Posted by Zach82 (# 3208) on :
 
That's strange, I wear scarves for warmth. Your friend must come from one of the list of crazy places I listed above. ((Ie, outside of the midwest))

Zach
 

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Posted by Lady A (# 3126) on :
 
Pacifica Northwestia - These interesting Americans are often found in wet habitats. If you can remove their shoes, they will have webbing between their toes. If you cannot catch one to remove it's shoes, you can find them by going among trees and finding the ones that have moss on the wrong side. They are also embedded with treebark from tree hugging or tree logging. They have a fascination with mountians, particularly volcanoes when they can see them. Native Pacifica Northwestia are often afraid of the sun and rarely remove sunglasses when outside. They are particularly happy when it is raining. Final test: Do you know what a gooeyduck is? Can you describe the sun?
 

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Posted by Mousethief (# 953) on :
 
Being a born and bred native of Ecotopia, I can tell you it's a different world here from the rest of North America. Perhaps this joke will explain.

A Texan, a Californian, and a Seattleite walk into a bar. The Texan says, "Barkeep, give me a bottle of your best tequila."

The barkeep gives him the bottle.

He takes one swig from the bottle, then throws it up into the air, whips out his revolver, and shoots it, sending glass and tequila flying everywhere.

The bartender says, "What did you do that for?!"

The Texan says, "Where I come from, we have plenty of Tequila."

The Californian, not to be outdone, asks for a bottle of Chardonnay. The bartender uncorks the bottle and hands the bottle, and a glass, to the Californian.

The Californian takes a swig from the bottle, then throws it up into the air, whips out his revolver, and shoots it. Glass and wine go flying everywhere.

"What did you do that for?!" sputters the bartender.

"Where I come from, we have plenty of Chardonnay."

The Seattleite then steps up to the bar and asks for a microbrew. He takes a sip, throws the bottle into the air, whips out his revolver, shoots the Californian, and deftly catches the bottle out of the air without spilling a drop.

"What did you do that for?!" shouts the bartender.

"Where I come from, we have plenty of Californians, but I'd be fined if I didn't recycle this bottle!"

Reader Alexis
 

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Posted by Mousethief (# 953) on :
 
Us natives, at least, can spell geoduck.

Reader Alexis
 

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Posted by Mad Geo (# 2939) on :
 
Americus Californius (Southern Subspecies): A special breed. Requires serious amounts of sunlight. Even albino variants are known to sit in the sun till a nice golden brown or red. Is known to form large static herds on freeway systems during rainstorms. Snow is known to cause raging fits of hysteria that appears to be related to fright. Requires one season year round with temperature variations no less than 65 degrees F to 95 degrees F.

Requires easy access to both mountains and oceans. Females of species are known to extensively use ornamentation, the extreme examples of which include surgical alterations using polymers.

Young variants extensively use the sound "dude" and "like" in vocalizations. Example "Dude! That is, like, totally, like, cool" and "Like, that was awesome Dude".

Adult species are known to sit in shops drinking liquified organic matter while vocalizing how "Al Gore really was smart". The workers of the species are generally attractive members of the species waiting for something they call "their big break". They do not do very well in maze tests.
 

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Posted by The Wanderer (# 182) on :
 
No one's said much on Guide to the British side, so let me give one. When you offer a Brit a drink, or a chocolate, or whatever, and they say, "No, I shouldn't," they mean, "Yes please, I'd love one!" Don't walk away at that point, thinking they've refused your kind offer. All you have to say is, "Oh, go on," they will reply, "All right then," and all will be sweetness and light.
 

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Posted by troy (# 2516) on :
 
No one pays attention to Ohio or Ohioans -- we are the most uninteresting lot in the country. At least Indiana has a cool "faux Southern" accent.

Notice that in all of the movies where aliens attack the Earth, you never see an attack on Cleveland or Columbus! A lone farmer in Bucks County Pennsylvania was accosted by alien invaders in Signs, but they all seemed to forget about Ohio.

News anchors study the Ohio accent for its plainness (except near Lake Erie, where all of the vowels and both accented and nasal). Example: Cat - really say that 'a' strongly and say most of it through your nose.

We're like the quiet neighboor that always smiles and waves.

Perfect for when the revolution comes.....yes... excellent....

-troy
 

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Posted by Island Exile (# 1340) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by troy:
No one pays attention to Ohio or Ohioans -- we are the most uninteresting lot in the country. At least Indiana has a cool "faux Southern" accent.

Notice that in all of the movies where aliens attack the Earth, you never see an attack on Cleveland or Columbus! A lone farmer in Bucks County Pennsylvania was accosted by alien invaders in Signs, but they all seemed to forget about Ohio.

---

quote:

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Originally posted by MarkthePunk:
Our flakey astral-projected organic California cousins do things like rendering $20 billion verdicts against eeevil tobacco companies, voting for Barbara Boxer, and eating tofu. Their flakiness is contagious and eventually infects other Americans, Texans excepted.

Texans like to shoot things, including Californians.

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quote:

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Originally posted by golden_key:


American biscuits = Don't know the British equiv.

---

Scones.

American scones = Something that the woodlouse crawled out from underneath. Put it back so he isn't homeless - you'll break your teeth trying to eat it.
 

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Posted by Chorister (# 473) on :
 
British People are usually divided into Country types and city types. Of course this is a gross generalisation but here are three sorts of country types:

OOOarrrooaarrrray, oi wuz born in a turnip field and wears smocks and drinks me own zider all day, leanin' over a fence with a straw in me mouth, sayin' 'ow be you then'. Usually found in or near farmland and in the bars of country pubs. drive beat up farm trucks or old bangers far to fast as they own the lanes anyway (going back to domesday)

Eaugh jolly good show, Daddy's organising the hunt and I only wear Barbour jackets and green wellies. We are all terribly busy as we run everything in the village and get to town early on market day with our wicker baskets to snap up all the best produce before the little people arrive. We have a little man to help us in the garden and a woman who 'does' three times a week - must dash, Camilla is entering the pony show and we have such a lot to do! Afterwards we will relax in the lounge bar of the village local - such a lovely country pub, before driving home in the people carrier (however did we manage before these were invented and we only had a volvo estate?!)

Peace and Serenity, be in touch with your inner self. In between weaving my children's own nappies and knitting rainbow-striped meditation mats, I campaign for banning foxhunting, converting everyone to vegetarianism and buying / growing organic food. I educate my children at home to a free curriculum, the schools are so stifling of my child's creativity, poor little Karma could stand it no longer. I'm off to Glastonbury at the weekend to buy more crystals and attend a 'heal your inner being' seminar. We don't go into the pub, but sit in small groups (at the intersection of two ley lines) eating and drinking our shared organic produce and elderflower cordial as the sun goes down over the horizon. We are so in touch with nature! Of course, although we don't believe in owning cars (so wasteful on the earth's resources) we are a special case as we live in the country, so we own a bright yellow 2CV (with rainbow motif), stating our individuality wherever we go.

OK< that's enough from me - perhaps someone else can do 'city'.
 

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Posted by CJ (# 2166) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by chukovsky:

quote:

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Originally posted by golden_key:


American biscuits = Don't know the British equiv.

---

Scones.

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NO NO NO NO NO. NO. NO nononononoono

They look similar, but they're completely differnt species. Biscuits are made (properly) with buttermilk and are soft and fluffy and you can eat them with savoury things (like chicken over biscuits - yummy chicken and gravy and biscuits). Scones are solider and crumblier and for afternoon tea with jam and butter or cream- can you imagine having scones and gravy?!

Common misconception with potentially messy consequences

Carolyn (who has dual nationality and therefore usually stays well away from any America/British threads for her own safety)
 

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Posted by Erin (# 2) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by logician:
3. Dixie, creeping up into the bottom of Indiana and Southernillinois, but excluding the southern half of Florida. Cap. Atlanta

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by CJ:

quote:

---

Originally posted by chukovsky:

quote:

---

Originally posted by golden_key:


American biscuits = Don't know the British equiv.

---

Scones.

---

NO NO NO NO NO. NO. NO nononononoono

They look similar, but they're completely differnt species. Biscuits are made (properly) with buttermilk and are soft and fluffy and you can eat them with savoury things (like chicken over biscuits - yummy chicken and gravy and biscuits). Scones are solider and crumblier and for afternoon tea with jam and butter or cream- can you imagine having scones and gravy?!

Common misconception with potentially messy consequences

Carolyn (who has dual nationality and therefore usually stays well away from any America/British threads for her own safety)

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So do I!

You use biscuit dough to make strawberry shortcake, according to my copy of Fannie Farmer. So you can have them with sweet things. They taste pretty much like scones, according to me. The recipe is actually the same until you get into adding cheese or raisins to scones. I think it's the flour that makes them taste slightly differently. British flour has less gluten in.
 

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Posted by Zach82 (# 3208) on :
 

quote:

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At least Indiana has a cool "faux Southern" accent.

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quote:

---

Originally posted by chukovsky:

quote:

---

Originally posted by golden_key:


American biscuits = Don't know the British equiv.

---

Scones.

American scones = Something that the woodlouse crawled out from underneath. Put it back so he isn't homeless - you'll break your teeth trying to eat it.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Zach82:

quote:

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At least Indiana has a cool "faux Southern" accent.

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Take that back! The Hoosier dialect is merely English in its purest form, the southerners have faux Hoosier accents!

Zach

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by chukovsky:

quote:

---

Originally posted by golden_key:


American biscuits = Don't know the British equiv.

---

Scones.

American scones = Something that the woodlouse crawled out from underneath. Put it back so he isn't homeless - you'll break your teeth trying to eat it.

---

Oh, of course, should've thought of scones! Thanks!

I don't know what American scones you've had, but there are lovely *soft* ones out here in Ecotopia! I'm very fond of them.


 

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Posted by logician (# 3266) on :
 
It's an old story around here, but perhaps new to you -- I mean, y'all.

To most of the world, a Yankee is an American.
In America, a Yankee is someone from north of the Mason-Dixon line.

North of the Mason-Dixon, it means a New Englander.

In New England, it means someone from NH or VT.

In NH and VT it means a rural native.

To rural natives of NH and VT, it means someone who has pie for breakfast.

(An idea we got from our East Anglian ancestors, by the way.)
 

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Posted by ChrisT (# 62) on :
 
Right, far too little about the UK. And someone asked about geographical differences. I think. So here goes:

Southern
(Below Sheffield, although this is under debate)
Three types:
East - 'Fen-men', flat land, flat accent, boring
West - the 'oo-ar' yokels as described above
Central - posh, rich, work in London, educated at Oxbridge

Northern
(Above Sheffield, but again this is open to debate)
Three types:
East - Newcastle twoccers, don't even try to understand their native language
West - Man/Liverpudlian scallys, keep your car doors locked at ALL time, including waiting at traffic lights
Central - Yorkshire grumpies, drink real ale, believe Yorshire is the centre of the universe

Then we have the Welsh, the Scottish and the Irish, but I've upset enough people by now so I'll leave them to others.
 

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Posted by Moo (# 107) on :
 

quote:

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Premise: there are 9 nations in NA, not three plus a bunch of small islands, each with its own attitudes, capital, economy, etc.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by logician:
4. The Islands. Southern Fla to the north coast of South America. Cap. Miami

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quote:

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Originally posted by ChrisT:
Central - Yorkshire grumpies, drink real ale, believe Yorshire is the centre of the universe

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quote:

---

Originally posted by chukovsky:

They taste pretty much like scones, according to me. The recipe is actually the same until you get into adding cheese or raisins to scones.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by chukovsky:
Fannie Farmer.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Rat:

quote:

---

Originally posted by chukovsky:

They taste pretty much like scones, according to me. The recipe is actually the same until you get into adding cheese or raisins to scones.

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NO NO NO!

You do not put cheese or raisins in scones. Especially not cheese.

Not unless you want me to shout NO NO NO at you. A lot.

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quote:

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'A British Day Out'

It is not a real British day-out till the dog has been sick in the car on the way back, Ah, happy days![/QB]

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Anselmina, this is all too awfully familiar! But you left out the one small white-faced kid in the car on the way back, suffering horribly from car sickness! (that was me ....)
 

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Posted by Bill Rea (# 1129) on :
 
Central - Yorkshire grumpies, drink real ale, believe Yorshire is the centre of the universe
----------------------------------------------
As Brian Redhead [a radio presenter] once said "Never ask a man if he's from Yorkshire: if he is, he'll already have told you, if he isn't, why insult him?"

Also, on American perceptions of Britain-anyone red the latest Tom Clancy: "Red Rabbit"? Try the Amazon.co.uk site to get a flavour...
 

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Posted by Bill Rea (# 1129) on :
 
Interesting but pointless paraprax-I meant to say "read", not "red", but maybe you'd guessed that.
 

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Posted by ChrisT (# 62) on :
 
Alaric, you are firmly supergluing your colours to any mast in sight - Leeds United? The 'Best Team in the World'? Hmmmm.

Mind you you would say that, coming as you do from Elmet (known in the Domesday Book as 'That Posh Place Top Side of Leeds'.

But you're right about Black Sheep, Riggwelter is nectar of the gods.


 

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Posted by Ann (# 94) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Anselmina:
It is also compulsory that picnic spots are situated beside the biggest wasps' nest in all creation; or should that choice place already be occupied, the largest ants' nest in all Christendom.

---

The picnic spot is also as far away from any public convenience as possible, or all too close to one in high summer; in the latter case, it's been several weeks since the start-of-the-season clean and it's run out of paper.

The only bushes around giving both ground cover and sufficient height require tracking through marshy ground of a squelchiness guaranteed to soak the socks. The wind will be wafting at gale strength from the only quarter not occupied by other picnicers. By the time a suitable bush has been found, the head of the household will be sounding the horn ready to go and getting stuck in any traffic jam on the way home can be blamed on the tardiness of the person making use of such a bush.

This is also a good time for a botanical lesson on the difference between dock leaves and nettles.
 

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Posted by Campbellite (# 1202) on :
 
I simply must register my protest regarding the (US) Southern "accent".

There is no such thing.

We do not have an accent. Y*nkees of various types have accents. We do not.

The Southland has preserved the original pronunciations from the time of the settlement at Jamestown (long before those Johnny-come-lately's in Massachusetts).

Even our beloved British cousins have shown changes in pronunciation over the years. If y'all want to know how Shakespeare was meant to sound, get someone from Birmingham (Alabama, that is) or Charleston, South Carolina to perform it.

I was 13 years old before I found out "damy*nkee" was two words.

Asterisk provided for the benefit of ladies and minors. Wouldn't want to offend their delicate ears, you know.
 

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Posted by Miss Nomer (# 1430) on :
 
Anselmina et al you are bringing back such happy memories of picnics. I do remember a young friend accidentally sitting on a nettle patch behind a bush......

As my h2b has pointed out the only things missing from the perfect British day out is the chorus from the back seat of Are we there yet? to be repeated at 5 minute intervals. And having to listen to Mr Blobby {replace with own inane childrens tape} over & over & over again. World War Three breaking out as child 1 stealing child 2's lollipop and then being poked in the eye with the stick.

Oh the joys of picnics - thank goodness its autumn and we have to stay indoors.......
 

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Posted by ken (# 2460) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by logician:
I would love to know the inside skinny on the "real" regions of the UK.

---

In direct tribute to a previous post, and at serious risk to my life, sanity, and and reputation; and making no attempt whatsoever to be truthful, impartial, or avoid stereotyping my fellow-shipmates unmercifully; and completely ignoring anywhere that arguably might not beBritain as a convenient way of not mentioning the North of Ireland, or Northern Ireland, which Anselmina has already encapsulated for you, and about which I only need to add that the real geography of Ulster was the original for the fantasy geography of Narnia; and with comments on their relationship to the settlemt of North America, I proudly present:

The Field Guide to the 15 Real Nations of Britain:

(1) West of Scotland - the Western Isles, Argyll, the Clyde and it's firth, those parts of the Highlands that drain west. Think of Scotch mist, whisky, moorland, Gaelic (pronounced "the garlic"), poetry, deserts wi' windows (i.e. vast housing projects with no jobs), deep-fried Mars-bars, and schism. The friendliest people in Britain apart from the inhabitants of Sheffield. Also the most violent, apart from the inhabitants of Nottingham. These are the ancestors of the Scots of Nova Scotia, the great Plains, and Texas. You can tell by the place-names: Houston is a suburb of Glasgow, Calgary a little village on Mull.
Industries: shipbuilding, steel, fish-farming, Robert Burns, and emigration.
Capital: Glasgow.
Main outside influences: Ireland, the USA, the western Isles
Religion: football.
National Sport: religious bigotry and apparently random thuggery.

(2) East of Scotland - Everything north or East of (1) above. A dour region for dour folk. No-one has any fun (the Edinburgh festival might look fun but it actually consists of Glasgow promoters putting on English shows for for reign tourists. to American tourists) The posh people speak with English public-school accents (Brits can think of Tam Dalyell), the working classes speak a broad Scots nearer to Norse than English. Or so it seems to one who is more familiar with the sing-song voice of Glasgow.
Industries: law, medicine, oil-rigs, coal, trawlers, and turnips.
Capital: Edinburgh
Main outside influences: the North Sea
Religion: money
National Sport: trying to be better than the west of Scotland

(3) Borders - all of Scotland south of Glasgow, most of the English county of Northumberland, and all of Westmorland and Cumberland and south west to the Lake District and north Lancashire. Hill country, moorland, with a long, noble and bloody tradition of independence. These were the main ancestors (along with the Ulster folk who Americans call Scots-Irish) of the people of Appalachia, and it shows.
Industries: fudge, sheep and liberalism.
Capital: Roxburgh, Selkirk & Peebles
Main outside influences: none since the Vikings: people leave there, they don't go there.
Religion: rugby union
National Sport: reiving

(4) Anglo-Walia - Wales that speaks English. Defined by language, not borders. On paper Anglo-Wales it is about 80% of Wales, in the papers about 20%. Shirley Bassey, Dylan Thomas, Max Boyce, and male-voice choirs, names of geological eras with no land animals, very large rugby players.
Capital: Cardiff
Industries: Coal, steel, the usual. All long gone, as usual.
Main outside influences: William Webb Ellis, George Whitefield
Religion: once Methodism but these days more likely fish & chips.

(5) Cymry - Wales that speaks Welsh. The original British, and if you ever visit there, don't you dare forget it. Divided eternally and completely between north-Walian and south-Walian, but as an English speaker I can't tell them apart.
Industries: Sheep, slate, and schoolteaching.
Capital: Aberystwyth. It should be Machynlleth, but no other bugger can pronounce it.
Main outside influences: The Holy Land. Wales is full of towns with names like Bethel and Bethesda. (As is the part of the USA that the Welsh took iron working to)
Religion: Druidism
National Sport: cottage-burning

(6) Cornwall and the far South-West - the bit that sticks out of the bottom-left-hand-side of your map. The climate is wonderful, the scenery attractive, the wildlife is tame, the mines are worked out, and the people are unemployed.
Capital: Exeter. Exeter isn't actually in Cornwall, but then these are colonial boundaries.
Industries: mines (once upon a time), fishing (fished out), smuggling (long ago over), showing tourists round gardens
Main outside influences: Wales, Brittany, the Atlantic Ocean

(7) North-East of England - Tyneside and the denser parts of Northumberland, County Durham, and the parts of Yorkshire within spitting distance of the river Tees. Eeh, it's cold oop North. If you can see the Penshore Monument you know you're in the north-east. Tyneside is the British equivalent of the Ruhr, except it didn't make it through the 1950s. The place was tooled up to build the ships to fight the First World War - huls, engines, guns, armour, ammunition, lasted to the second, then spent a generation as the land of Get Carterand the Likely Lads.
Capital: Newcastle
Main outside influences: Norway
Industries: once upon a time: steel, coal, ships, armaments. These days: insurance and making TV documentaries about the North.
National Sport: football (again)
Religion: the Labour Party and the Trade Union movement. (Now, like most minor deities, mostly worshipped from afar)

(8) North-West of England - traditional Lancashire & adjacent parts of a few other counties. Everyone in the south thinks they are desperately poor and half-starving. In fact, apart from Liverpool (which really is totally broke) and some decaying inner suburbs of a few other large towns, the north-west is quite a prosperous place. Also a diverse place. There are towns here where the local accent is completely different from the next town maybe only 4 or 5 miles away. The north-west is the only part of England outside London that ever nrearly succeeded in being cool, Manchester & Liverpool used to take alternating goes as the pop capital of the world. But now all they have left is football. Most of the the ships that people from the rest of the Old World used to travel to North America departed from Liverpool. First the slave ships, then when the bottom was shot out of that market by the Haitian revolution and the Evangelical Revivial, they converted to emigrants.
Capital: Manchester, England's Second City.
National Sport: football (it gets boring, doesn't it?)
Main outside influences: Ireland, India
Industries: Once upon a time cotton, these days just about everything.

(9) Yorkshire - Real Yorkshire isn't quite the same as Yorkshire on the map because it is a state of mind more than a place. Being Yorkshire involves thinking you are better than anyone else, so much better in fact that you never bother to tell them. If you find yourself in a picturesque, if gritty, stone-build village on the edge of the moors and all the doors are shut - you're probably in Yorkshire. Except for Sheffield of course. Sheffield is so much unlike Yorkshire that it hardly fits here at all.
Capital: York
National Sport: horse-racing
Main outside influences: Outside? Influence? When ah were a lad, they 'ad no truck with them there outsiders, and the only influence they ever saw was aunt Maisie's nice cup of tea.
Industries: moaning about soft southerners
National Sport: cricket

(10) East Anglia - the big bulge on the east coast just north of London, including the counties of Essex, Suffolk, Norfolk, and Cambridgeshire, along with a few other little ones no-one can ever remember. The flat part of England. For our purposes we have to add in rural Lincolnshire and some of the flatter parts of the east midlands.
Capital(s): Cambridge for education, Norwich for bad TV shows.
Main outside influences: the Netherlands
Industries: keeping unfeasibly large numbers of poultry in sheds big enough to see from orbit
Religion: once upon a time a hot-bed of puritanism and non-conformism. The Pilgrim Fathers came from Boston in Lincolnshire (Plymouth was just a place they stopped off on the way to get a last pint of decent beer) as did Oliver Cromwell.

(11) London London is, er, London. The default city of the modern world. The Great Wen. The Heart of Darkness. The Smoke. The place the banks keep your money. Like all other great cities it evokes a completely different set of images in those who live there than those who don't. Tourists think of Tower Bridge, fog, beefeaters, helpful cabbies, and the Changing of the Guard. Locals think of Battersea Power Station, expensive beer, the Tube Map, 300 bus routes, and endless conversations about house prices. Oh those endless, endless conversations about house prices. People from London owned the ships that people from teh rest of Britain and Euroipe used to travel to North America, but they never went there themselves. You'd have to get off the housing ladder if you wanted to emigrate. And there might not be a tube.
Capital: London, of course
Industries: money
Main outside influences: Ireland, the West Indies
Religion: desperate fun
National Sport: reading late-night bus timetables and arguing about the tube map.

(12) The Motorised Banana - imagine a large banana-shaped piece of land to the north and west of London, curving from Cambridge in the north-east to somewhere around Baskingstoke in the south-west, bulging out west along the Thames Valley to Oxford, and taking Milton Keynes and the outer suburbs of London on the way. This is the most prosperous part of Britain, and also the part that makes most sense to Americans, as nearly everyone lives in suburbs, shops in malls, and drives cars.
Capital: Heathrow Airport
Industries: commuting to London, driving round the M25
National Sport: five-a-side football, driving round the M25
Religion: television, driving round the M25

(13) South -Central England and the South Coast A triangle whose outlying edges are Exeter, Chichester, and Oxford. Rolling green meadows, villages of thatched houses, little cathedral towns nestled in the folding hills, quiet country pubs - you've seen the Miss Marple programs. Picturebook England.
Capital(s): it really ought to be Southhampton, the only big city in the region, but the spiritual home of the place is Bournemouth, which is about equally composed of retired gentlewomen in distressed circumstances and young thugs tanked up on cheap cider.
National Food: Cream Teas
Industries: none
Main outside influences: the Isle of Wight

(14) The Real South East - the bulge south of London: Kent, Surrey and Sussex, together with the outer suburbs of South London and adjacent parts of Hampshire. On the main routes from London to everywhere else. Combines really quite downmarket fading naval or port towns like Dover or Chatham, or Portsmouth; with vast swathes of exurbia posing as countryside, such as the huge Mega-Village One that has metastatised just north of Brighton.
Capital: Brighton
Industries: transport, scenery, commuting, education, trying to be near to London without being part of London.
Main outside influences: France, the rest of Europe
National Sport: Sport? In a region who's best-known football team is Brighton & Hove Albion? Come off it!

(15) The Rest The rest of Britain is all those parts that don't fit into the 14 categories defined above.
Capital: Birmingham. People who have seen both Birmingham and Akron, Ohio, usually say they find Akron more charming.
Religion: the car
Other interesting facts: none known. No-one likes Birmingham. Except people who live there, and as no-one else ever goes there no-one knows why they like it.
 

---

Posted by Amos (# 44) on :
 
There is a land elsewhere!

Thank you, thank you ken for leaving us out!
 

---

Posted by OgtheDim (# 3200) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by ChrisT:
....
West - Man/Liverpudlian scallys, keep your car doors locked at ALL time, including waiting at traffic lights
I've upset enough people by now so I'll leave them to others.

---

Scousers and gud Lanky stawk r same?

RUBIIISSSSHHHHH
 

---

Posted by Campbell Ritchie (# 730) on :
 
Ken (bl**d* good post that, BTW. Can I send it to my friends please?) and ChrisT:-

What makes you think Yorkshiremen (I am by no means one, but now live there) believe Yorkshire is the centre of the universe, or thinking you are better than anyone else?

No Yorkshireman would believe or think such things, any more than he would believe or think grass is green.
 

---

Posted by nicolemrw (# 28) on :
 
the new yorker: people are constantly saying we're rude. we are. wanna make something of it? none-the-less, we can be the nicest people in the world, going out od our way to help people. tourists are constantly telling me how amazed they are by how nice and helpful we can be.

new yorkers can come from any part of the world and be any race, color or religion. what defines us as new yorkers is that we'd rather be here than anywhere else, even when we complain about it brutally.

new yorkers are a tolerant lot. basicly we don't care what anyone is doing as long as they don't do it in the street and scare the tourists. we like to mind our own business a lot.

the true new yorker knows that this is the capital of the world and has a faint air of gentle condencension towards everyone else. after all, its not your fault you aren't here, but still, you aren't so what else is there to say?
 

---

Posted by zephirine of the roses (# 3323) on :
 
does your true new york encompasss the remainder of the state?

`waving from a wee nook on lake ontario
 

---

Posted by nicolemrw (# 28) on :
 
well, no, i ment the city, but WHERE on lake ontario? anywhere near olcot???? (she said with great trepidation, hardly daring to hope that after the booting of the vile shaitan there might still be someone from near my summer cottege....)
 

---

Posted by Timothy L (# 2170) on :
 
Anselmina, in a very funny post wrote:

quote:

---

All chocolate is melted despite the coolbag and is given to the dog who alone will be without enough pride to be willing to lick the wrappers.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by nicolemrw:
well, no, i ment the city, but WHERE on lake ontario? anywhere near olcot???? (she said with great trepidation, hardly daring to hope that after the booting of the vile shaitan there might still be someone from near my summer cottege....)

---

we're around sodus... apple country. quite a few miles to the right.

we drove through olcott on our way to toronto back in august. actually... we let the teen drive the parkway. he did well til he got lost in niagara falls.

olcott's very nice. i loved some of the gardens i saw - esp. one with a jillion windchimes hanging from the porch. i noticed lots of russian sage in use out there. it seems to be getting very popular as a cottage flower.
 

---

Posted by Zach82 (# 3208) on :
 
The post about British picnics has depressed me so much.
 

---

Posted by Laudate Dominum (# 3104) on :
 
In the list of definitions of Californians, they forgot:
Californian (Slightly North of San Francisco): Showing influence of the Midwest, probably due to its extensive agricultural areas. Neither as tolerant nor as radical as the San Franciscans. Main industries: agriculture, food, wine, tourism, and a little bit of everything else. Capitol: unknown. Parts of Napa and Sonoma come close to being included below.

Californian (Further North of San Francisco): Can best be dscribed by their belongings; either a red hat with earflaps and a rifle, or a flowing white gown, wreath worn on the head, and a marijuana cigarrette. The latter type usually expresses an obsessive interest in the art and music of Asian, African, and Celtic cultures. Main industries: none which would be admitted to by the inhabitants, although there are some water-bottling plants. Capitol: Mendocino or Humboldt, depending on how far north you get.
 

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Posted by Vertebrate (# 1244) on :
 
ken, I normally just scroll through posts as long as yours. But yours was spot on. Are you from rural Lancashire by the way? You're spot on about the accents. The kids who came to my school from the Blackburn direction spoke completely differently from those from the Burnley direction.

Vert.
 

---

Posted by ken (# 2460) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Campbell Ritchie:
Ken (bl**d* good post that, BTW. Can I send it to my friends please?)

---

quote:

---

the true new yorker knows that this is the capital of the world and has a faint air of gentle condencension towards everyone else.

---

I hadn't noticed the faintness of the air or the gentleness of the condescension.

Moo
 

---

Posted by ken (# 2460) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Vertebrate:
But yours was spot on. Are you from rural Lancashire by the way?

---

No, Brighton! Not even Hove, actually, but east Brighton of grotty council estates and failing schools. But I live in London now.

But my Mum & my sister lived in Preston for a while & my parents came from Glasgow and Tyneside & I went to college in Durham. Which is why I am so vague on the English Midlands - I know the end bits of Britain quite well, but everything between, say, Finchley Road in north London and Sheffield in south Yorkshire is pretty much the outer darkness, to be passed through as quickly as possible on a high-speed train.

 

---

Posted by ken (# 2460) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Chip Unicorn:
Californian (L.A.): Obsessed with thinness, following strange religions, status, and the right parties. Unless they're not in the movie business.

---

If I remember correctly the anglo-American migrants to LA between about 1880 and 1920 were widely castigated as "mid-west, middle-aged, and middle-class". Back then it was also I think the whitest large city in the USA and the one with the highest proportion of US-born citizens. The most significant foreign contingent in that part of California being from Canada. The website www.ci.ontario.ca.us isn't called that because of US imperialism. Even if it isn't far from Imperial Valley)

Things changed after that...

I of course, know everything about LA, even though I have never been there, because I have Seen it in the Movies. Along with everyone else. It is the backdrop to a quarter of the TV & 3/4 of the films that I grew up with. I'm sure if I went there I would start recognising alien planets from Star Trek. (in space opera California is Mars, just as Old Earth stands in for England)

These days LA in films doesn't look like LA any more. When I was a lad LA was a Great Big Freeway, with a absurdly large number of palm trees interpenetrating an endless sea of low-rise detached houses. The only tall building was City Hall. It was the lowest-rise large city in the English-speaking world, fewer tall buildings than Washington DC, fewer skyscrapers than even London (i.e. none at all)

But sometime between the TV making 77 Sunset Strip and Angel, it all changed. Now it seems to be full of huge buildings and back alleys and large objects that give off steam whilst making unpleasant sounds. Maybe they film Angel on the back lot of a studio in New York
 

---

Posted by Gill B (# 112) on :
 
Ken, I agree about your analysis of the north-west being spot on. Except for one thing - national sport. Whatever happened to Rugby League? Hardly played outside Lancashire and West Yorkshire, but here in its heartland, it surely ranks equally with football.

I'm from St Helens BTW (which gets me nicely out of any United v City controversies - I just say my affiliations are to St Helens RLFC).
 

---

Posted by Gill H (# 68) on :
 
Ken, that's wonderful.

Here's something a friend forwarded me. (Dudley is in the Midlands, largely famous for Not Being Birmingham). The humour may not survive the transatlantic crossing!

URGENT - DUDLEY EARTHQUAKE APPEAL

At 00:54 on Monday 23 September an earthquake measuring 4.8 on the Richter scale hit Dudley, UK causing untold disruption and distress -

* Many were woken well before their giro arrived

* Several priceless collections of momento's from the Balearics and Spanish Costa's were damaged

* Three areas of historic and scientifically significant litter were disturbed

* Thousands are confused and bewildered, trying to come to terms with the fact that something interesting has happened in Dudley

One resident, Donna-Marie Dutton, a 17 year old mother-of-three said
"It was such a shock, little Chantal-Leanne came running into my bedroom crying. My youngest two, Tyler-Morgan and Megan-Storm slept through it.
I was still shaking when I was watching Trisha the next morning."

Apparently though, looting did carry on as normal.

The British Red Cross have so far managed to ship 4000 crates of Sunny Delight to the area to help the stricken masses.

Rescue workers are still searching through the rubble and have found large quantities of personal belongings including benefit books and jewellery from Elizabeth Duke at Argos.

HOW YOU CAN HELP

* £2 buys chips, scraps and blue pop for a family of four
* £10 can take a family to Stourport for the day, where children can play on an unspoiled canal bank among the national collection of stinging
nettles

* 22p buys a biro for filling in a spurious compensation claim

PLEASE ACT NOW

Simply email us by return with your credit card details and we'll do the rest!

If you prefer to donate cash, there are collection points available at your local branches of Argos, Iceland and Clinton Cards
 

---

Posted by ChrisT (# 62) on :
 
Thats fantastic Gill, very true

And Ken, I stand in awe. Such insight, such wondrous observation. Such truth. But horse-racing? Come on, you got to be kidding.

And Campbell, I apologise profously. Of course Yorkshiremen know they are better than everyone else, just as they are utterly certain they Yorkshire is the centre of the universe.

Yorkshire Ayup Magazine
 

---

Posted by Vertebrate (# 1244) on :
 
In the interests of Transatlantic comprehension I am posting a non-exhaustive list of British phrases. It is well known that the British do not always say what they really mean. So, with the international nature of the Ship, the definitions below may help people from minor nations understand their British shipmates better.

Sorry if some of you have seen this before. The first phrase is what is said. The second phrase is what is meant. This is understood by all but the most socially inept Brit, or foreigners, or Yorkshire folk.

I hear what you say
I disagree and do not wish to discuss it any further

With the greatest respect
I think you are a fool

Not bad
Good or very good

Quite good
A bit disappointing

Perhaps you would like to think about. / it would be nice if.
This is an order. Do it or be prepared to justify yourself

Oh, by the way/Incidentally
This is the primary purpose of our discussion

Very interesting
I don't agree/I don't believe you

Could we consider the options
I don't like your idea

I'll bear it in mind
I will do nothing about it

Perhaps you could give that some more thought
It is a bad idea. Don't do it

I'm sure it is my fault
It is your fault

That is an original point of view/brave option to consider
You must be crazy

You must come for dinner sometime
Not an invitation, just being polite

Not entirely helpful
Completely useless

I have found this list invaluable in understanding the complete bewilderment of my international colleagues, who, whilst speaking virtually perfect English, can occasionally entirely fail to understand a simple statement, such as this one.

Vert.
 

---

Posted by Rat (# 3373) on :
 
Ken,

That was spot on and very funny. Can I pinch "A dour region for dour folk" for my 'from' field?

The Festival can be fun though, honest, the secret is to pretend to be a tourist

Rat
 

---

Posted by ken (# 2460) on :
 
pinch away!

Anyway...

continuing the Modern British idiom list:

"Anyway..." = "I am now about to tell you what I wanted to talk about before you so rudely interupted with your own unwarranted opinions"

"Please" = "do what I tell you at once"

"thankyou" = "you did what I told you when I said 'please'"

"sorry" = "you stepped on my toe! If you do it again I will hit you"

"bog standard" = "completely ordinary, normal, default"

"the dog's breakfast" = "all messed up and completely useless"

"the dog's bollocks" = "wonderful, awesome, the best of its kind"

NB It is not a mark of politeness to say "please" and "thank you" to strangers in England, it is a matter of rudeness not to. "Please" often accompanies even direct orders. Prison guards can say "please" to prisoners, teachers to students.
 

---

Posted by sarkycow (# 1012) on :
 
Whoever divided England up earlier did it wrongly. It is divided by a line running horizontally through the Watford Gap, and one running perpendicular southwards to this line, straight through Oxford.

Civilisation is south of the Watford Gap and east of Oxford.

Rural but ok area is south of the Watford gap and west of Oxford.

Barbarian country with big "Here be dragons" signs lies north of the Watford Gap.

Viki, living in the heart of civilisation
 

---

Posted by Campbell Ritchie (# 730) on :
 
Thank you Ken. Of course the Yorkshirefolk know Yorkshire is the centre of the Universe, and Nicolemrw's "centre of the universe," is only a newer version of it!

Sarkycow, you must explain to non-Midlanders that Watford Gap is nowhere near the town of a similar name in Herts. And that civilisation is this side of it.
 

---

Posted by Mad Geo (# 2939) on :
 
Ken Said:

quote:

---

"the dog's breakfast" = "all messed up and completely useless"

"the dog's bollocks" = "wonderful, awesome, the best of its kind"

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mad Geo:
Ken Said:

quote:

---

"the dog's breakfast" = "all messed up and completely useless"

"the dog's bollocks" = "wonderful, awesome, the best of its kind"

---

Can anyone explain to me why the Dog's Breakfast is bad versus the Dog's Balls is good?

On second thought, maybe I don't want to know....

---

It's bollocks, MadGeo, bollocks....

 

---

Posted by Mad Geo (# 2939) on :
 
Sorry, forgot where I was for a minute
 

---

Posted by The Machine Elf (# 1622) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mad Geo:
Can anyone explain to me why the Dog's Breakfast is bad versus the Dog's Balls is good?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mad Geo:
On second thought, maybe I don't want to know....

---

TME
 

---

Posted by Anselmina (# 3032) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by The Machine Elf:

The dog's bollocks (or the cat's whiskers) are (for humans) things that can't be licked!
TME

---

Ahem! More like (for humans) shouldn't be licked?
 

---

Posted by Lady A (# 3126) on :
 
If someone from York could enlighten me... When I was there, I mentioned that I was part Scottish. My mother's friend gleefully told me that it was still quite legal to shoot a Scot by arrow from the walls of York (I haven't seen this mark of a Yorkshireman yet in the posts....)
 

---

Posted by Campbellite (# 1202) on :
 
In Texas, it is a legal defence to say that the victim "needed shootin'".
 

---

Posted by jedijudy (# 1059) on :
 

quote:

---

ken said:
Capital: Birmingham. People who have seen both Birmingham and Akron, Ohio, usually say they find Akron more charming.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Anselmina:

quote:

---

Originally posted by The Machine Elf:

The dog's bollocks (or the cat's whiskers) are (for humans) things that can't be licked!
TME

---

Ahem! More like (for humans) shouldn't be licked?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by jedijudy:

quote:

---

ken said:
Capital: Birmingham. People who have seen both Birmingham and Akron, Ohio, usually say they find Akron more charming.

---

Is that pronounced "Bir-min-HAY-yam"?

jj

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Alaric the Goth:
No, jj, it's pronounced 'Burmingum' or just 'Brum'.

---

Unless you come from Dudley in which case you say "BER-bi-gub"

 

---

Posted by ChrisT (# 62) on :
 
Leeds (UK), and maybe some other shipmates will back me up on this one, is MUCH better than it used to be. They have made huge improvements to the city centre, and (in some circles at least) it is Britains Second City. I think that many local councils are attempting to do something to make town and cities more attractive. But have you noticed the first buildings to get a makeover are the council offices and town halls? Hmmmmm
 

---

Posted by Alaric the Goth (# 511) on :
 
'Twas Leeds (and Bradford, in that order) that I was referring to when I posted this:
Posted by me!:

quote:

---

West Yorkshire is full of students and former students, curry houses and Tetley's pubs (see below). It has two big cities, one of which is better than it used to be and the other is as bad as it ever was.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by The Machine Elf:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Anselmina:

quote:

---

Originally posted by The Machine Elf:

The dog's bollocks (or the cat's whiskers) are (for humans) things that can't be licked!
TME

---

Ahem! More like (for humans) shouldn't be licked?

---

A dog can lick his, and a cat can lick hers, but men and women can't lick theirs, so the DB or CW is something it's not humanly possible to 'lick' (ie beat).

TME

---

Men AND women?
 

---

Posted by Anselmina (# 3032) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by The Machine Elf:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Anselmina:

quote:

---

Originally posted by The Machine Elf:

The dog's bollocks (or the cat's whiskers) are (for humans) things that can't be licked!
TME

---

Ahem! More like (for humans) shouldn't be licked?

---

A dog can lick his, and a cat can lick hers, but men and women can't lick theirs, so the DB or CW is something it's not humanly possible to 'lick' (ie beat). TME

---

<sigh!> I know. I was trying (and obviously failed) to indulge in a little light-hearted 'wordplay'. If you read the line you wrote, in a literal sense: The dogs bollocks are for humans things that can't be licked. Then my reply of ' for humans shouldn't be licked?' was a whimsical reflection on the advisability of a human licking a dog's bollocks. <sigh> Sorry not to have made that more explicit..... I'll try better next time.
 

---

Posted by The Machine Elf (# 1622) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Rhisiart:
Men AND women?

---

dogs-> men
cats-> women

How many women do you know that can lick their whiskers?

(I know you were playing with the words Anselmina, but this is a thread for clarifications )

TME
 

---

Posted by Campbellite (# 1202) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by ken:
Unless you come from Dudley in which case you say "BER-bi-gub"

---

Hmmm...

That's how we pronounce the one in Alabama, but only if we have a REALLY BAD head cold.
 

---

Posted by jedijudy (# 1059) on :
 
Oooh! I got a map in the mail! (Wesley sites in Britain.) I see that lots of places were named after sites here in Florida:

Brighton, Inverness, Dunbar, Pembroke (they forgot the Pines),
Penzance,Windermere...goodness! Isn't that interesting! Just like home!

jj
 

---

Posted by kenwritez (# 3238) on :
 
My ancestors are from Cornwall, according to my geneologically-able mom. I know nothing about it, except it's on the coast and cold, I think. I am thinking about coming out there sometime in the next few years to check it out and see if I really do have any distant family there.

Of course, some poor family trying to eat dinner and hearing a knock on their front door, open it to see ME there, in all my glory. "Hi! I'm your cousin 312 times removed!"
 

---

Posted by ChrisT (# 62) on :
 
Ah, Alaric, you never fail to impress me. Apologies abound in your direction. But there are parts of Bradford I like very much, the main part being at the bottom of Morley Street, an establishment known as the Kashmir...
 

---

Posted by Ian M (# 79) on :
 
'Ber-bi-gub' - that's it, the whole bad head cold sound is right there. That's brilliant.

I just had to keep repeating it to myself (under my breath) while I read the rest of the thread, and was crying with laughter by the end...

Ian
 

---

Posted by Linux Rose (# 2257) on :
 
Under Yorkshire you left out

Religion: The cult of St Geoffrey de Fitzwilliam

Rosie

quote:

---

Originally posted by ken:
(9) Yorkshire - Real Yorkshire isn't quite the same as Yorkshire on the map because it is a state of mind more than a place. Being Yorkshire involves thinking you are better than anyone else, so much better in fact that you never bother to tell them. If you find yourself in a picturesque, if gritty, stone-build village on the edge of the moors and all the doors are shut - you're probably in Yorkshire. Except for Sheffield of course. Sheffield is so much unlike Yorkshire that it hardly fits here at all.
Capital: York
National Sport: horse-racing
Main outside influences: Outside? Influence? When ah were a lad, they 'ad no truck with them there outsiders, and the only influence they ever saw was aunt Maisie's nice cup of tea.
Industries: moaning about soft southerners
National Sport: cricket

---

quote:

---

My ancestors are from Cornwall.

---

Originally part of the Celtic fringe, with its on language (Cornish, would you believe), called Kernow. Separated from England (Devon) by the River Tamar, invaded by the Philistines (literal sense not metaphorical) something like 3000 years ago in search of the tin ore, which was mined near St Austell until about 10 years ago.
Near the coast, as you say, and often damp, but by no means cold. In fact frost is considered unusual so close to the Gulf Stream.
The coast is incised deeply by long fjord-like inlets called rias, with the woods and fields going virtually straight to the high-tide mark. It is easier to travel by ferry than to try bridging many of these. The coast has rocks and sandy beaches. Good Atlantic swell makes it popular for surfing at places like Newquay. Water crystal-clear.
Inland (like Devon) quite hilly, with bleak moors particularly near the County Town of Bodmin (that is right, isn't it, any Cornishmen reading?). The main roads can be very crowded in Summer (except in 1999; fright about overcrowding for the eclipse meant that those of us who went to the West Country that Summer found deserted roads); the minor roads hilly and narrow.
Principal industries, tourism, retirement from the rest of Britain, complaining about how the economy has gone wrong (with good justification, I am afraid), agriculture. The latter produces the clotted cream which was discussed in the "afternoon tea" thread which used to be here in Heaven. Also daffodils in January and February.
Breweries at Helston (Blue Anchor) St Austell (St Austell) and Skinner's (I forget name of town) etc. [Note to admins]Can we have a beer smiley please?[/Note to admins]
Includes southernmost part of mainland Britain (the Lizard) and Land's End, which is by no means the westernmost part of Britain.

I haven't been there since last year in June; ought to go again; my sister lives in Devon only about 15 miles from the border with Cornwall.
 

---

Posted by CJ (# 2166) on :
 
Not bad, Campbell but not quite full marks

A few pedantic points...

Originally part of the Celtic fringe, with its own language (Cornish, would you believe), called Kernow.
The county is called Kernow in tne Cornish language, which is called Kernewek (determined revival of which goes on with not much effect)

tin ore, which was mined near St Austell until about 10 years ago.
Tin ore was mined in the north part of mid-Corrnwall, especially round Camborne and Redruth, and down onto the far west. China Clay (now used mainly in paper manufacture rather than plates)is still mined round St Austell (locally pronounced something like 'snozzle')

Near the coast, as you say, and often damp, but by no means cold. In fact frost is considered unusual so close to the Gulf Stream.
We do get some frost, and even snow, but it's pretty mild. The weather can be glorious - and can also be very wet, and foggier than anywhere I've ever lived before.

The coast is incised deeply by long fjord-like inlets called rias
in theory.. but no one actually calls them that. Good for sailing though.

Inland (like Devon) quite hilly, with bleak moors particularly near the County Town of Bodmin (that is right, isn't it, any Cornishmen reading?).
Nonononono! Truro (and before that it was Launceston)

The main roads can be very crowded in Summer (except in 1999; fright about overcrowding for the eclipse meant that those of us who went to the West Country that Summer found deserted roads)
I was on call in casualty that summer. It was hilarious. They'd doubled our staffing levels in anticipation of the rush and we sat around twiddling our thumbs and fighting over any patients who did turn up. The week after the eclipse, staffing went back to normal and all the tourists came back and it returned to the usual summer pandemonium.

Over and above all that, it's a startlingly beautiful and varied place, and I'm very lucky to live here.
 

---

Posted by Campbellite (# 1202) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by jedijudy:
Oooh! I got a map in the mail! (Wesley sites in Britain.) I see that lots of places were named after sites here in Florida:

Brighton, Inverness, Dunbar, Pembroke (they forgot the Pines),
Penzance,Windermere...goodness! Isn't that interesting! Just like home!

jj

---

quote:

---

Tin ore was mined in the north part of mid-Corrnwall, especially round Camborne and Redruth, and down onto the far west.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by jedijudy:
Oooh! I got a map in the mail! (Wesley sites in Britain.) I see that lots of places were named after sites here in Florida

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by CJ:
NO NO NO NO NO. NO. NO nononononoono

They look similar, but they're completely differnt species. Biscuits are made (properly) with buttermilk and are soft and fluffy and you can eat them with savoury things (like chicken over biscuits - yummy chicken and gravy and biscuits). Scones are solider and crumblier and for afternoon tea with jam and butter or cream- can you imagine having scones and gravy?!

Common misconception with potentially messy consequences

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by CowboyUK:
Remembering the time when as a Brit living in Arizona I vacationed in southern Utah and stayed at Ruby's Inn, Bryce Canyon

There were a couple of coachloads of my countrymen staying there and in the line for the Breakfast Buffet I heard a yorkshireman comment to his wife as an American helped himself to biscuits and gravy :- "Here Mary, they're a strange lot these yanks, they put soup on their scones"

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by whitelodge:
cricket in Yorkshire

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Campbell Ritchie:
Thank you Ken. Of course the Yorkshirefolk know Yorkshire is the centre of the Universe

---

That's true !! After all astronomers tell us the centre of the universe is a ruddy great black hole which pretty well sums up Tykeland (AKA Yorkshire)
 

---

Posted by Campbell Ritchie (# 730) on :
 
CJ. Sorry I haven't read your post from Sunday.
I meant the County is called Kernow.
How's that for bad grammar in my last post.

CR
 

---

Posted by kenwritez (# 3238) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by ken:
Biscuits and gravy does sound rather odd

---

Oh, it may sound odd to the uninitiated, but to sit down to a bowl of savory sausage gravy and some fresh, hot biscuits is a breakfast to dream of!

Heck, fresh biscuits with butter and jam are fantastic as well.
 

---

Posted by RuthW (# 13) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by CowboyUK:
And don't even get me started on the problems of asking for an eraser on the first day in the office (but using the British name for one)

---

quote:

---

Biscuits and gravy does sound rather odd

---

Oh, Lordy I have a craving for good biscuits and gravy with lots and lots of salt and pepper now.

It's just soooooo good....

Zach
 

---

Posted by Zach82 (# 3208) on :
 
Oh my gosh, I just looked up the British word for "eraser."

Zach
 

---

Posted by jedijudy (# 1059) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by babybear:
Next year is the 300 years since John-boy was born. There are going to be major celebrations within the Methodist Church. Many many books have been written and will be available to the public. There are also plans for some sort of Wesley Heritage Route going through Wales!

bb

---

I got my map from an advertisement/invitation to go on one of the Wesley tours. I wish I could, that way, maybe I could meet some of my Shipmates IRL!

jj

ps...If someone could sneak in a church music seminar or two, maybe I could go with my continuing ed money!
 

---

Posted by Sauerkraut (# 3112) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Zach82:
Oh my gosh, I just looked up the British word for "eraser."

Zach

---

I just looked it up. It is truely proof we are two peoples seperated by a common language.
 

---

Posted by CowboyUK (# 3428) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by RuthW:

quote:

---

Originally posted by CowboyUK:
And don't even get me started on the problems of asking for an eraser on the first day in the office (but using the British name for one)

---

LOL! Just out of curiosity, did you ask a man or a woman?.

---

quote:

---

And please tell me you tried biscuits and gravy while you were here.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by CJ:
China Clay (now used mainly in paper manufacture rather than plates)is still mined round St Austell (locally pronounced something like 'snozzle').

---

The citizens of Liskeard seem to pronounce it "St Awful".
 

---

Posted by CJ (# 2166) on :
 
My mother moved to Scotland from the States shortly after qualifying as a teacher. Her first job here was in a huge comprehensive near Edinburgh. Despite being a new teacher in a fairly 'challenging' school, she never had much problem with discipline. She attributes this to the way she reacted when in one of her first classes a boy asked for 'a rubber'. The class concluded that if she got that mad at a simple request for a bit of stationary, they better tread carefully!
 

---

Posted by Miffy (# 1438) on :
 
Writing from the land of the motorised bannana:

'Real' scones (pronounced scones not 'scohnes'): mix flour, eggs, milk and sugar to produce fluffy, light discs. Wrap in clean tea-towel to keep warm. What are popularly known down south as Scots pancakes or drop scones.

False scones: Those lumps of reinforced concrete that I can never get to rise properly. A staple ingredient of cream teas.

Oh, and has anybody started the great crumpet/pikelet debate yet?
 

---

Posted by Miss Nomer (# 1430) on :
 
Lady A you asked about shooting Scots from the city of York.

I don't know whether that is true but in Chester it is still legal to shoot a Welshman from the city walls - but only using a longbow.

Bet they don't tell all those Welsh ladies shopping in M&S that they could be shot
 

---

Posted by babybear (# 34) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Miss Nomer:
Bet they don't tell all those Welsh ladies shopping in M&S that they could be shot

---

Quite simply because they are not WelshMEN!

bb
 

---

Posted by Zach82 (# 3208) on :
 

quote:

---

The attractive young lady who was giving the stationary out

---

quote:

---

I did . . . . . . unfortunately
Not so bad as "Grits" though

---

quote:

---

Not so bad as "Grits" though

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Zach82:

quote:

---

The attractive young lady who was giving the stationary out

---

LOL! What did she do?

---

quote:

---

Isn't grits just maize-meal?

---

quote:

---

Better with white African maize than yellow American maize (which is one of the things behind the Zimbabwean rejction of US GM corn - yellow maize is cattlefood)

---

quote:

---

Better with white African maize than yellow American maize

---

Or white American corn.

quote:

---

(which is one of the things behind the Zimbabwean rejction of US GM corn - yellow maize is cattlefood)

---

quote:

---

that's a tom-ar-toe not a tom-ay-toe

---

Pronounced in the proper Indiana fashion it's "tuh-may-doe."

Zach
 

---

Posted by Anglicub (# 3413) on :
 
Actually, I think grits are made of coarsely-ground hominy, which is corn (maize) treated with lye. I guess that makes it sort of the vegetable analog of lutefisk...

And while I'm a native of the American Southwest, I live in Philadelphia, where you can't get biscuits and gravy to save your life. And now I'm craving them. Grrr...
 

---

Posted by duchess [green] (# 2764) on :
 
My mom sounds fake Southern...she is originally from Iowa. She says "Oleo" instead of margarine and also "Now wait a cotton-picking minute" " and other choice phrases which I have inherented.

In California, we have what is affectly called "West Coast Accent". If you go into broadcasting, I read somewhere that you should adopt a "West Coast accent". To me, this means NO ACCENT. I don't hear an accent when I listen to people from Michigan, Washington, Nevada and other places...yes and Utah. What's up with that?

I look like a hippie...I dress casual and wear comfortable shoes. I also eat a lot from Trader Joes (a popular organic like grocery market). I shock people when they discover I am this Conservative born-again Christian. My roomate too.

Most here are GEEKS and wear that label with pride (Silicon Valley). There are more men than women but I still can't get a date. Of course I have (REALLY!) had bizarre encounters with men who do realise the gravity of their situation...it is just that they are always a little off and scary, never nice normal well-adjusted guys.

I am very much in the minority and probably belong more in my mom's town of Red Oak, Iowa than San Jose, CA in my thinking..but I love it here and can not think of living anywhere else.

So, Mark the Punk, I vote against the tide every election, so shoot around me.

PS: Mark the Punk: I heard in Texas only "wusses" dance two step if they are guys...that "only women country line dance in Texas". I dance country line dancing...and I wonder if that is true?
 

---

Posted by Zach82 (# 3208) on :
 
Us midwesterners don't have accents... it's the city slickers from the coasts that have accents.

Zach
 

---

Posted by kenwritez (# 3238) on :
 
Since I'm from Southern California, I can legally call other men "Dude."

"Dude, great to see you!"
"Whoa, dude! No way!"
"Dude, look at that dude over there macking big-time on that Buffy!"
"Dude, the classic Anglican position on antisacramentalism vis-a-vis the Seven Council decisions and interpreted via classic Orthodox doctrinal is positional in like, you know, the extreme."
 

---

Posted by Duo Seraphim (# 3251) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Miffy:
Writing from the land of the motorised bannana:

'Real' scones (pronounced scones not 'scohnes'): mix flour, eggs, milk and sugar to produce fluffy, light discs. Wrap in clean tea-towel to keep warm. What are popularly known down south as Scots pancakes or drop scones.

False scones: Those lumps of reinforced concrete that I can never get to rise properly. A staple ingredient of cream teas.

Oh, and has anybody started the great crumpet/pikelet debate yet?

---

Aaah, crumpet - the food of the immortals, with honey and butter or with raspberry jam. Of course so very "Carry On" as well.

I know what you mean by "pikelet" - strange flabby little disc of batter cooked on a griddle. They are known as drop scones Oop North. I could never warm to them.

On the other hand, that authentic Welsh delicacy, the Welsh cake as cooked by my Auntie Peggy.... It's a sweet short pastry dough with sultanas, rolled out, stamped into rounds and cooked on a hot stone (i.e. griddle) and eaten at once. (I also miss "fat rascals" a sort of rock cake you get in North Yorkshire, served warm with butter.) Happy days. I have lost a lot of weight since I became an expatriate Brit in Australia.

You can keep your biscuits and gravy, kenwritez.
 

---

Posted by Timothy L (# 2170) on :
 
There are lots of British/American dictionaries on the net:

• American-British British-American Dictionary
• British American Dictionary
• English (British) American Dictionary
• American-British Dictionary
• UK English for the American Novice
• BritSpeak

I do wonder if any of them draw from as big a pool of users of the language as we have on the Ship, however. This could end up being the definitive dictionary! (hmm...idea for the admins...forget books on religion, go for Travel Helps).
And I think this thread needs an Oz Addendum.
 

---

Posted by Amos (# 44) on :
 
Dear Duo Seraphim,
Some of us put a leavening agent (Baking Powder for choice) in our scones, and find they are much lighter!
 

---

Posted by Zach82 (# 3208) on :
 
Wow, interesting stuff. While trolling about those linguistics sites, I discovered that the differances between American and British English are actually due to British pronunciation changing and American pronunciation staying the same. This certainly surprised me, one would think is would be the other way around!

An example is the word "party." Historically, the "r" was pronounced, which is why it is in the word in the first place. That "r" has persisted in the American dialect, but has faded in the British dialect.

Zach
 

---

Posted by babybear (# 34) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Zach82:
An example is the word "party." Historically, the "r" was pronounced, which is why it is in the word in the first place. That "r" has persisted in the American dialect, but has faded in the British dialect.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by kenwritez:
[QB]Since I'm from Southern California, I can legally call other men "Dude."

---

Sure, but have you ever called anyone "Dudette"? The first time I heard this (in Orange County in the 80s) I thought seriously about leaving California.

Then, of course, I came to my senses.

duchess, shopping at Trader Joe's should not make people think you're gonna be a liberal - when people make that mistake, just tell them all the smart Republicans in Orange County shop TJ's too.
 

---

Posted by Gill H (# 68) on :
 
Didn't The Proclaimers do a song about people who 'throw the r away'?

'Party' in South Wales doesn't have an 'r' in it. But if you're near Cardiff it'll have the dreaded Cardiff 'a'. As in:

"Aak aak the laak in Caadiff Aams Paak".

It's a very harsh vowel - almost like Liverpool. Great for confusing tourists!
 

---

Posted by Miss Nomer (# 1430) on :
 
When I spent 2 years at school in Scotland we were taught to roll our r's. Makes for much nicer pronunciation

However 20+ years back south of the border & I have a pretty neutral middle class english accent OK so everyone can understand me but its not the same.

Young people throughout England are now starting to speak Estuary English which involves the glottal stop [missing out t's in the middle of words] e.g. bot'el instead of bottle and other lazy mispronunciations. Apparently its all due to the TV which now doesn't seem to emply people who speak the Queen's English
 

---

Posted by Miffy (# 1438) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Duo Seraphim:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Miffy:
Writing from the land of the motorised bannana:

'Real' scones (pronounced scones not 'scohnes'): mix flour, eggs, milk and sugar to produce fluffy, light discs. Wrap in clean tea-towel to keep warm. What are popularly known down south as Scots pancakes or drop scones.

False scones: Those lumps of reinforced concrete that I can never get to rise properly. A staple ingredient of cream teas.

Oh, and has anybody started the great crumpet/pikelet debate yet?

---

Aaah, crumpet - the food of the immortals, with honey and butter or with raspberry jam. Of course so very "Carry On" as well.

I know what you mean by "pikelet" - strange flabby little disc of batter cooked on a griddle. They are known as drop scones Oop North. I could never warm to them.

On the other hand, that authentic Welsh delicacy, the Welsh cake as cooked by my Auntie Peggy.... It's a sweet short pastry dough with sultanas, rolled out, stamped into rounds and cooked on a hot stone (i.e. griddle) and eaten at once. (I also miss "fat rascals" a sort of rock cake you get in North Yorkshire, served warm with butter.) Happy days. I have lost a lot of weight since I became an expatriate Brit in Australia.

You can keep your biscuits and gravy, kenwritez.

---

No no no no no!!

Your pikelets=my Drop Scones=English Scots pancakes.

My pikelet (courtesy of W Midlands husbsand) = skinny crumpet!
 

---

Posted by Miss Nomer (# 1430) on :
 
What is the world's fastest cake?
...
...
...
...
...
...
...
...
...
...
...
...
scone...........
 

---

Posted by ken (# 2460) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by duchess [green]:
I don't hear an accent when I listen to people from Michigan, Washington, Nevada and other places...yes and Utah. What's up with that?

---

quote:

---

I look like a hippie...I dress casual and wear comfortable shoes. I also eat a lot from Trader Joes (a popular organic like grocery market). I shock people when they discover I am this Conservative born-again Christian. My roomate too.

---

Hmmm... maybe another specific US thing. I can't remember hearing any sermons against casual dressing & comfortable shoes round here.

Having looked at my daughter's photos from "Soul Survivor" (a sort of summer camp with added worship meetings) the post-hippy braided-hair beads-and-Doc's look seems quite the thing among teenage Christians in Britain. Maybe it is something to do with all these dance-trippy Christian bands from a few years ago. Perhaps that didn't happen in the USA - I'm sure the alt.worship boards on the Ship could fill you in on the details.
 

---

Posted by ken (# 2460) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by babybear:
The 'r' that most English people use

---

What "r"? There is no such consonant in my language. I come from Brighton, where we have the right to call each other "mate" and never pronounce the sounds other people associate with the letters "r" and "t" at all. At most they are a vowel glide and a glottal stop.

So "a pint of bitter" is "uh piyn uv bi'uh" and the name of the city, "Brighton" is "Bwai'un".

quote:

---

(Although nothing like the fake Scottish accents used in old American films.)

---

quote:

---

Oh, and has anybody started the great crumpet/pikelet debate yet?

---

quote:

---

Aaah, crumpet - the food of the immortals, with honey and butter or with raspberry jam.

---

quote:

---

Maybe because Utah, like California, was settled by people from midwest, whose accents mixed together, then others from all over North America and Europe?

---

quote:

---

Perhaps that didn't happen in the USA

---

If only it didn't
 

---

Posted by ken (# 2460) on :
 
But you aren't differing - you are agreeing with me! The original question was why people in Utah sounded like people in California. If they do (I have no idea, I've never been to Utah & I can't remember ever meeting a Utan (Utasian? Utie? Ute? Utishman?) But my guess is that, if they sound like Californians, it is because they were settled by people from all over the place and unlike the midwest haven't yet had time to develop their own local dialect.
 

---

Posted by Campbellite (# 1202) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by ken:
But my guess is that, if they sound like Californians, it is because they were settled by people from all over the place and unlike the midwest haven't yet had time to develop their own local dialect.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by CowboyUK:
I did . . . . . . unfortunately
Not so bad as "Grits" though

---

quote:

---

But you aren't differing - you are agreeing with me!

---

Um.... I was just making sure you were paying attention.

quote:

---

if they sound like Californians, it is because they were settled by people from all over the place and unlike the midwest haven't yet had time to develop their own local dialect.

---

quote:

---

We have at least seven distinct dialects within the Commonwealth. Those who have a good ear for such things can narrow down to which county a native Virginian hails from.

---

quote:

---

Grits- pronounced "Gah-REE-its" Best if eaten with runny fried egg (I know, it's not healthy and out of fashion), and crispy fried bacon-all smashed up together.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Duo Seraphim:
[QUOTE]You can keep your biscuits and gravy, kenwritez.

---

quote:

---

The original question was why people in Utah sounded like people in California. If they do (I have no idea, I've never been to Utah & I can't remember ever meeting a Utan (Utasian? Utie? Ute? Utishman?) But my guess is that, if they sound like Californians, it is because they were settled by people from all over the place and unlike the midwest haven't yet had time to develop their own local dialect.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sparrow:
Crumpets are for eating with butter and Marmite!

---

quote:

---

No! Grits are best with butter, salt, and pepper.

---

No, grits *IS* best with butter, salt and pepper.

Actually, grits is good almost any way you prepare them.
 

---

Posted by duchess [green] (# 2764) on :
 
RuthW, up here in Northern California, we are woefully ignorant on Orange County...I am afraid I one of them. Rich people around here are the biggest hippies, so there are really no conservative areas...in fact Marin (where Johnny Walker is from) is a very posh area with scary Radicals...they just don't make as much noise as the Berkeley ones. Are they conservative in Orange county? maybe I should relocate if I move south.

One guy at work actually kept on going on about how how he was voting for Al Gore and how Dubya sucked (about 90% of my office). I try not to discuss politics and religion too much at work since debates ensure and take up work time...so I tried for once in my life to keep my mouth shut. He loudly kept badgering me until he point blank said "Aren't YOU going to vote for Al Gore?" and I just shook my head no. He FREAKED OUT! He could not believe it! "Whaddya mean...you are voting for Bush? Bush?" It was like I shook his paradigm or something. He was from Boston though...maybe in Boston comfortable shoe type woman like myself vote for Gore? I dunno. At the time, it upset me...but now, looking back, I believe it was a good thing.

Anyway, about the dialect thing, interesting theories.

Hoosiers try to sound like Canadians...eh.
Some sound like waterdown Canadians...
speaking of which...one of my territories in sales is Canada...and I can hear it in their voices. "Hi, eh, can you tell me ABOOT your product?" I mean it literally is that thick! The French Canadians are easy to spot "Bonjour, Meeee-llliiiisss-sa, I need you...to Heeellpp me wit dis pricing?"

About the scone thing...when I lived in London in 1989...I ate scones a lot from a deli. They were all packed up like cookies and cheap..so I bought lots. I can not find them here...but they ROCKED. Maybe TJ has them and I didn't look hard enough...or maybe Cost plus would have them...
 

---

Posted by Miss_Molly (# 2339) on :
 
Ken Said:

quote:

---

The original question was why people in Utah sounded like people in California. If they do (I have no idea, I've never been to Utah & I can't remember ever meeting a Utan (Utasian? Utie? Ute? Utishman?) But my guess is that, if they sound like Californians, it is because they were settled by people from all over the place and unlike the midwest haven't yet had time to develop their own local dialect.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Lady A:
Final test: Do you know what a gooeyduck is? Can you describe the sun?[/QB]

---

Raised as a Pacific Northwesterner, I DO know what a "gooeyduck" is, and I know that it's spelled "geoduck" too. The sun is the shiny warm thing up in the sky. I'm rather fond of it, and that's why I live in Silicon Valley now. For the record, I would like to add that I am one of the statistically rare residents of this part of CA who is not a computer geek and who did not vote for Barbara Boxer, let alone Gray Davis (our current governor, hopefully soon to be our recently replaced governor). We are the few, the proud, the California Conservative Christian Right-wingers...
 

---

Posted by Zach82 (# 3208) on :
 
I have never heard a Hoosier that speaks like a Canadian, except in jest of course.

And no Hoosier at any point in history has ever said "eh?" Ever.

Zach
 

---

Posted by wee_sleekit (# 3372) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by troy:
Sigh, it seems that only we who huddle close to the Lake are holding the line against any drawls or twangs.
-troy[/QB]

---

Folks in Oregon (OR-a-gun) and Washington are fighting the good fight as well. I've heard tell news anchors train there, too. And no one has ever been able to "place" me, because they can't discern an accent!

[Duplicate post deleted]

[ 18. October 2002, 15:26: Message edited by: Belisarius ]
 

---

Posted by ken (# 2460) on :
 
I still find it remarkable that anyone thinks you can tell someone's theology from the chain stores they use

What woul;t that be like in England? Would theological liberals go to WH Smith's & conservatives to Boots?
 

---

Posted by babybear (# 34) on :
 
A times I have seen 'get off your franny'. I am aware that 'fanny' can be used in the States to to mean posteror. (It means vigina in the UK.)

So what does 'franny' mean?

bb
 

---

Posted by duchess [green] (# 2764) on :
 
I guess I have just encountered some guys in my youth who talked like Canadians and drank beer a lot...wore the snow hat...kind of reminded me of SCTV...
 

---

Posted by RuthW (# 13) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by duchess [green]:
Are they conservative in Orange county? maybe I should relocate if I move south.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by duchess [green]:
?

I look like a hippie...I dress casual and wear comfortable shoes. I also eat a lot from Trader Joes (a popular organic like grocery market). I shock people when they discover I am this Conservative born-again Christian. My roomate too.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by ken:
I still find it remarkable that anyone thinks you can tell someone's theology from the chain stores they use

What woul;t that be like in England? Would theological liberals go to WH Smith's & conservatives to Boots?

---

Ken, I was thinking about this last week and I think judging by dutchess, that the UK equivalent might be closer to Holland and Baratt for the liberals while conservatives might find themselves shopping at Sainsbury's or even Waitrose. Perhaps they would also buy their clothes at Debenhams. (V. Popular UK dept store very much straight laced and everyone seems to get their wedding list from there!). Liberals perhaps use Ikea?
 

---

Posted by ken (# 2460) on :
 
Waitrose? The food branch of John Lewis Partnership, the nation's largest workers co-operative? The place that all good lefties (including me) go when they find the need to go to a department store?

The place that my daughter, aged about 10, called "Marks and Spencer's for people who don't want to admit they go to Mark's and Spencer's"?

I still don't see the theological connection
 

---

Posted by Annie P (# 3453) on :
 
Oops, forgot that!
There probably isn't one suffice to say that places like sainsbury's are highly respectable places and highly regulated (I know, I've seen the product specifications for them) so in a way... conservative?? You're probably right and we shouldn't pigeon hole people's theology for where they shop.
I think your daughter is right about Waitrose!

To completely change the subject, has anyone thought to takle the differences between USA guys and UK Blokes - and what about snogging???!
 

---

Posted by Gill H (# 68) on :
 
Waitrose are very good at organic, ethical, fairtrade, supporting local farmers etc etc, and so nice and lefty. You do pay a bit more, but hey, it's worth it (especially when you have a discount card like me!) But it can be Middle-Class Central, I admit.
 

---

Posted by Zach82 (# 3208) on :
 

quote:

---

But it can be Middle-Class Central, I admit.

---

What's wrong with middle class?

quote:

---

To completely change the subject, has anyone thought to takle the differences between USA guys and UK Blokes -

---

quote:

---

and what about snogging???!

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by ken:
Doesn't US "making out" imply going a bit further than British "snogging"?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by chukovsky:

quote:

---

Originally posted by golden_key:


American biscuits = Don't know the British equiv.

---

Scones.

American scones = Something that the woodlouse crawled out from underneath. Put it back so he isn't homeless - you'll break your teeth trying to eat it.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by chukovsky:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by golden_key:
[qb]

American biscuits = Don't know the British equiv.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by duchess [green]:
Scot, what the blazes is "OC conservative" mean? Pray tell, pls explain sir.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by ken:
Doesn't US "making out" imply going a bit further than British "snogging"?

---

as a Brit guy, who lived across the pond for a while, I can't say I ever found much difference between the two
 

---

Posted by Sauerkraut (# 3112) on :
 
On the Conservatives in OC, let's not forget San Diego County, which, tradtionally, has been a bastion for Conservatism as well. That may have more to do with the strong military presence in the area than anything. When so many people's jobs depend on a heavilly-funded military, people will tend to vote for job security. If I remember correctly, no Democratic presidential canidate has won San Diego County since WWII.

Dutchess,
You're a NR reader too! It's good to see someone else on this board who's a WFB fan.
 

---

Posted by duchess [green] (# 2764) on :
 
Yes, I read NR.
 

---

Posted by Zach82 (# 3208) on :
 
I also read the National Review. Hooray!

Zach
 

---

Posted by kenwritez (# 3238) on :
 
I've seen the National Review on newsstands but haven't read it. Is it similar to the American Spectator?
 

---

Posted by Sauerkraut (# 3112) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by kenwritez:
I've seen the National Review on newsstands but haven't read it. Is it similar to the American Spectator?

---

NR is a different beast than the American Spectator. If you have ever read anything by William F. Buckley Jr., his influence permeates the magazine. It has more of a higher culture feel than the Spectator. I actually read National Review for six months, and it boosted my English portion of the SAT by about 100 points.
It's OK for everyone to go back to arguing about scones or biscuts and gravy.
 

---

Posted by logician (# 3266) on :
 
Which do I join? The part about NR, or making out, or one of the other topics?

I subscribed to NR for several years but now take it mostly online. It remains the best evidence that the creative disagreement is coming from the right these days.

As to making out. The phrase has changed in meaning over the years. My parents' generation would have regarded "making out" as sexual intercourse or pretty darn close, while "making love" would be closer to kissing, or even just flirting. In my generation the terms have reversed in the intensity of encounter they describe. I don't know if a 20 y/o American would have a slightly different meaning.
 

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Posted by Zach82 (# 3208) on :
 
Yup, "making love" is just a nice was of saying "having sex."

Zach
 

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Posted by Zach82 (# 3208) on :
 
An American quirk I thought of on another thread.

Americans are quite happy to complain about the weather amongst themselves. But if a foreigner complains about the weather, it's because he needs to toughen up. Actually, it goes for anyone from a region with a differant climate from the speaker as well.

English guy- "Indiana is so bloody cold!"

Zach- *with blue lips and chattering teeth* "Nah, you Brits just need to toughen up!"
 

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Posted by Ultraspike (# 268) on :
 
After a recent visit to England in several locations I must say I think the Brits have much thicker blood than Yanks, if the temperature of their abodes is any indication. Most American homes are overheated and we whine if it gets the least bit chilly. I personally prefer it cooler rather than warmer but I did a few times keep singing "London Homesick Blues" (that's Jerry Jeff Walker to all you non-Texans): "Well it's cold over here, and I swear, I wish they'd turn the heat on."

And what's up with those toilets over there? I think the last day I was there I finally got the hang of flushing. There's a certain wrist action, as Cosmo explained to me. And forget about flushing twice. If you don't get it right the first time you have to wait about an hour to flush again.
 

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Posted by nicolemrw (# 28) on :
 

quote:

---

Yup, "making love" is just a nice was of saying "having sex."

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ultraspike:
After a recent visit to England in several locations I must say I think the Brits have much thicker blood than Yanks, if the temperature of their abodes is any indication. Most American homes are overheated and we whine if it gets the least bit chilly. I personally prefer it cooler rather than warmer but I did a few times keep singing "London Homesick Blues" (that's Jerry Jeff Walker to all you non-Texans): "Well it's cold over here, and I swear, I wish they'd turn the heat on."

And what's up with those toilets over there? I think the last day I was there I finally got the hang of flushing. There's a certain wrist action, as Cosmo explained to me. And forget about flushing twice. If you don't get it right the first time you have to wait about an hour to flush again.

---

I will raise my hand [insert imaginery hand raising icon]that I always kevitch about how cold it is ANYTIME I set my foot outside California (unless in Florida or some other sunny spot). I just can not bear cold weather. I fought to get those funny looking white pipes things in London to work when it was cold with my landlord (and I won!). We don't have those in California..I don't think any part of the USA has them. What are they called [to any Brit reading this]? My flatmates all were content to freeze including the British flatmate we had. I though can take great heat more than a lot of people I know during heat waves (my roomie gets on my case to open the window a lot).

Regarding the toilets over there...I LOVED THEM! They flush so well! You could flush a small kitten down the toilet by accident if you weren't careful In France too! (I remember getting up in the middle of the night to use the fascilities in a hotel room in Paris and inadvertently flushing some francs down the toilet). My sister heard "flush...clink-clink-clink" and started LOL.

The toilets in California are designed to save water. You must flush more than once to get rid of evidence for the next user. It is awful but I guess they do help conserve. Give me a nice British toilet anytime. *Sigh*
 

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Posted by Zach82 (# 3208) on :
 

quote:

---

We don't have those in California..I don't think any part of the USA has them. What are they called [to any Brit reading this]?

---

Those would be radiators. We have those here in Indiana, which is nice and frigid in the winter.

I really despise hot weather. I'd much rather bundle up than wear short and short-sleeves.

Unfortunatly, Indiana has 90 degree summers with high humidity. Harsh summers AND harsh winters.

Zach
 

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Posted by JB (# 396) on :
 

quote:

---

...I always kevitch about how cold it is ANYTIME I set my foot outside California...

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by JB:

quote:

---

...I always kevitch about how cold it is ANYTIME I set my foot outside California...

---

Every summer my daughter visits New Mexico from her home in Arizona, and she complains about the cold.

---

quote:

---

I know a woman in North Yorkshire who thinks everywhere south of Sheffield is too hot.

---

Scary! Brrr! When I was in Chester (near Wales), I can remember buying scarves (which I still have) because I was FREEZING MY YANKEE BUTT OFF!


 

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Posted by Pym (# 74) on :
 
Back to US lavatories: Why, in public facilities, are the doors so inadequate? The gap under the door is sufficient to allow an average 3-year old under, and there is a significant gap around the door. It's all very reminiscent of my English boarding school. Agree that you can't flush the results of a satisfactory evacuation away over there in one go.
 

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Posted by Campbell Ritchie (# 730) on :
 
What's this got to do with lavatories? I thought they didn't have them in the States, only bathrooms and restrooms. And I thought nobody ever talked about them.

Not like my trip to Portsmouth Youth Hostel once (90 miles by bicycle on a beautiful but freezing cold winter's day). On arrival I met a transatlantic chap who asked whether I was afraid of having my bicycle stolen.
No.
Well, what if you have to leave it when you go to the bathroom?
No. I just lock it up.
Well, what if you're out in the country and there aren't any bathrooms? [understanding dawning smilie]
Oh, I just nip behind the nearest tree.

I was quite relieved when he moved on.

Of course, if the tree is in a field, it brings us back to the original subject of this thread.

CR
 

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Posted by ken (# 2460) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Zach82:
An American quirk I thought of on another thread.

Americans are quite happy to complain about the weather amongst themselves. But if a foreigner complains about the weather, it's because he needs to toughen up. Actually, it goes for anyone from a region with a differant climate from the speaker as well.

English guy- "Indiana is so bloody cold!"

Zach- *with blue lips and chattering teeth* "Nah, you Brits just need to toughen up!"

---

We have people like that in Britain as well. We call them Northerners.

Actually London is unpleasantly hot for most of the year. The cold in this part of Britain is much exagerrated. Look at the figures - the climate of London is more or less the same as that of Paris (though Paris is colder in winter), Melbourne (though it rains more in Melbourne) or San Francisco (though fog is more common in San Francisco).

You hardly beed a coat. You can do quite well in London for 10 months of the year in shirt sleeves with a hat or umberella to keep the occasional rain off.

The trouble is, there is no way of telling which ten months

Here we have weather. Other people have climate.

Climate is more extreme than weather - but it is more predictable.

Yes we know it gets cold in Iowa in winter. And we know that the Iowans wrap up warm and put chains on their car wheels. That's because they know when winter is likely to be.

No-one in the south of England ever dreamed of claiming that our weather ever approaches being as nastily hot, or cold, or wet, or dry as most other countries (though it can get bloody windy). The first frost of winter is often not till after Christmas. Most years it doesn't even snow here. The hottest it ever gets is about 30 degrees C, and that typically for no more than 2 or 3 weeks a year. (Away from London it rarely gets even that hot).

But how can you tell which 3 weeks will be hot? You can't. They can come at any time between April and September. When will our rain fall? Whenever it wants to. Any time of day, any time of year. To an Englishman the very idea of a "rainy season" is humorous.

Typical English weather is not the fogs the Americans insist on putting in films. It is dry but overcast, with neither rain nor sunshine, and a temperature of about 15 degrees C, give or take 5 degrees. A bit chilly for sitting around in without a coat, but a bit too warm for walking with one. Days like that can occur in any month of the year. And usually do. Sometimes it goes on like that for weeks on end. It isn't very dramatic, it isn't at all inconvenient, it can be quite pleasant in a sort of way. User-friendly weather.

Then all of a sudden it snows, or their is a drenching rainstorm, or a heatwave, or 100-mile-an-hour winds, and everybody gets caught by surprise and moans about the weather.

All these remarks don't hold true for Scotland or the far north of England. There are places in Scotland where the average rainfall is an inch a day
 

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Posted by Campbell Ritchie (# 730) on :
 
Posted by Duchess [green]

quote:

---

Chester (near Wales)

---

Chester is in England. Not near Wales. There is nowhere in either country (not even places like Chepstow where one can fling a stone into the other country ) that admits to being "near" the other country.

And what ken forgot to mention is the spatial as well as temporal variability of the British weather.
I can go to work here at Linthorpe in heavy winter rain and see people who have driven in from Coulby Newham (about 3 miles away and 100 feet higher above sea-level) with two inches of snow on their car rooves.

We went to Richmond once and met somebody from Scorton, who told us it was always so much colder at Richmond. It is about 6 miles from Richmond to Scorton.

We can have rain here and see on the TV that the A66 has been closed coming out of Scotch Corner, barely 20 miles from here, by snow.

CR
 

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Posted by Annie P (# 3453) on :
 
Too true Campell! and I'm glad Ken that you explained about the UK whether system. As another example: at the mo, over in Stokesley it's as clear as crystal (and you can probably see all the way to the North Sea if you were standing on top of the N York moores - say on Carlton Bank for instance). But this is no garantee (can't spell) that it will stay this way. By the afternoon we could have rain or lots of cloud or flying pigs - you just don't know.

And that's why the brits are so obsessed with weather. If you want to start a conversation with anyone, anywhere in the UK then say something about the weather because you're bound to get a reaction. Complete stranger walking into shop will be able to talk to other complete stranger by saying - "it's a bit nippy today" - full discussion on the state of the economy and what they are buying friends for Christmas will follow. Not only that, but a Brit will remember what the weather was like 2 weeks ago (esp if the sun shined) and be able to give you a full forecast for the next 48 hrs. Weather is never predictable here and always interesting.

Also, as a northerner - we do have the habit of taking the rip out of the people below us - "Soft Southerners" is a cry oftern heard north of Birmingham. Not that we're tough or anything...
 

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Posted by Sparrow (# 2458) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Campbell Ritchie:

We can have rain here and see on the TV that the A66 has been closed coming out of Scotch Corner, barely 20 miles from here, by snow.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Zach82:
Those would be radiators. We have those here in Indiana, which is nice and frigid in the winter.

---

quote:

---

You could flush a small kitten down the toilet by accident if you weren't careful

---

quote:

---

I don't think we have those metal plates here in the US, Zach, at least I haven't seen them. We have nice FAT pipes and coil type steam radiators here in New York. Most of the time those metal plates in Britain never seem to heat up or maybe I don't know how to turn them on.

---

She just said "those funny looking white pipes things," which I assumed to be radiators.

I must have been wrong.

Zach
 

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Posted by duchess [green] (# 2764) on :
 
http://www.chestergrosvenor.co.uk/location/map3.html
(map to see Chester in England bordering Wales)
Since Chester is right next to Wales even though it is in England, I say it is "near Wales". I guess that when I came back from Wales years ago...me and my flatmates went though Chester on our way back to London. I have learned not to make this faux pas anymore...I will from now say "Chester, which is in England, bordering on Wales".
 

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Posted by ken (# 2460) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Annie P:
Also, as a northerner - we do have the habit of taking the rip out of the people below us - "Soft Southerners" is a cry oftern heard north of Birmingham. Not that we're tough or anything...

---

quote:

---

As my Dad was born in Jarrow I feel quite at liberty to call Stockton the Soft South.

The North starts at Consett!

---

Aye, ken, as someone born in Sunderland and brought up north of the Wear (till Ah wez over 18), Ah used to think Stockton wez way doon sooth. But Ah mean, ye've admitted ye were born in Brighton, and live in London, so Ah think ye'r a bit of an extreme Southerner yerself!
 

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Posted by Annie P (# 3453) on :
 
I can see where you both are coming from, but Stockton South? South? I don't think so! Stockton is positively north. I'll have to come clean and say that I'm actually a Lancashire girl, so finding myself on the North East side o' country is a tad strange. To think I work in Yorkshire
Stockton is north and very east for me.

quote:

---

"Ah" he said, sadly "Ah'm a stranger here meself. Been here twenty year..."

It turned out that he came from Houghton-le-Spring.

---

I didn't realise it was quite that bad as I thought you only needed a passport to get in to the region of the NE!? I am an "in comer" and am at a distict disadvantage as I have NO family over this side. Visibly noticable in church as everyone is related to everyone else - I've never been in a place where there's so much inbreeding!
 

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Posted by Campbell Ritchie (# 730) on :
 
Duchess [green}, I have been away so only saw the map you quoted in your post of 24th October today.

It is a very informative map, not simply geographically, but in showing the regional prejudices we have in Britain. You can tell that it is possible to drive to the Scottish border in 3 hours, but not that London is the same distance away. In fact the map doesn't show places as far south as Shrewsbury Whitchurch or Stoke-on-Trent.

Now a map of Britain with London expunged . . .

And it is a British map, having parts of England Scotland and Wales on
 

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Posted by Clergyman'sdaughter (# 3136) on :
 
Ken, I think you should publish your posts. Write a book or something - they're brilliant.

Some relitaves of mine came over from Canada in the summer, and they were slightly bemused, because we told them that we lived in Bedfordshire, near Cambridge (actually our back garden is in Cambridgshire). We explained that we don't live in London, but that its easy to get to on the train (about 35-40 mins to Kings Cross).
I over heard one of them on the phone telling someone back in the states "We're staying in Bedfordshire... its in North London."

I suppose that what constitues "near" or "in" somwhere depends on the size of the country you live in.
I guess that relitavely speaking, if my house was a similar sort of distance from New York, I'd call it the suburbs? Correct me if I'm wrong.
 

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Posted by Clergyman'sdaughter (# 3136) on :
 
Sorry, sorry, sorry, I know Canada is NOT in the States, before anyone points it out....

*memo to self - check repies CAREFULY before posting*
 

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Posted by Clergyman'sdaughter (# 3136) on :
 
replies - damn it!
 

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Posted by Zach82 (# 3208) on :
 
A thirty minute train ride is an awfully short distance in America. (And Canada, I guess.)

I've heard that Europeans think 100 miles is a long way, and Americans think 100 years is a long time.

Zach
 

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Posted by RuthW (# 13) on :
 
Zach: exactly. A thirty-minute train ride would only get me halfway to downtown Los Angeles. And probably to a place where I wouldn't want to get off the train.
 

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Posted by Paul W (# 1450) on :
 
Here is a link my brother just sent me. It's a little guide to the British, written for Americans.

Oi Yanks

Disclaimer: I take no responsibility for the contents or opinions of the above linked site.

Paul W
Hoping this hasn't already been posted on the five pages of thread that I can't be bothered reading right now.
 

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Posted by Zach82 (# 3208) on :
 
That site says you shouldn't talk at the train station in England. It's the same down here in the lower Midwest. From what outsiders tell me, we have a reputation of being pretty dour. Even the kids from the big cities tell me we Hoosiers always seem so unhappy.

We just like our misery.

Zach
 

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Posted by Anselmina (# 3032) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by ken:
I was once walking over Framwellgate Bridge in Durham at about 3 o'clock in the morning, rather the worse for drink, and I met an old man, a retired miner I guess, who was less sober than I was. He asked me where I was from. I told him I was born in Brighton.

"Ah" he said, sadly "Ah'm a stranger here meself. Been here twenty year..."

It turned out that he came from Houghton-le-Spring.

---

20 years? Talking to a born and bred tradesman in our local town about a woman who had recently died, he shook his head and said: 'course, won't be a big funeral; she wasn't even local. Only lived here forty years.' And he was quite serious. Shades of Royston Vasey or what?

 

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Posted by logician (# 3266) on :
 
Being born in a location has an amazing cachet in New England. My brother, who was born in East hamptom MA 45 years ago, left at 4 months old, and did not return until returning to Montague last year, is regarded with relative comfort by the local Yankees, despite spending the last 25 years of his life in Southern California. They regard him as a ruined and eccentric local.

"Ebeneezah, aftah all these yeahs, don't ya think I should be c'nsidahed a native of VERmont?"

"Wal, just because my cat had kittens in the oven, I wouldn't call 'em biscuits."
 

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Posted by Janine (# 3337) on :
 
It's nice that we can trace my father's family back to & beyond the French fishing village "we" came from; nice that there are X-number of generations of us here in South Louisiana... but, around here, no one seems to worry much about whether folks are newcomers.

Must be the way Cajun culture embraces & absorbs things, taking delight in useful bits and enjoying the esoteric bits in annual festivals meant for that purpose. For instance, there's a terrific Oktoberfest in Ponchatoula, La., and there's some sort of Powwow several times a year. You can still find pockets of older folks who speak only French, and call English-speaking folks from exotic foreign locales like North Louisiana "Americans".

You know you've been here long enough to be accepted, at least as a beloved neighbor, when we start asking you "HowzyaMaminem?" (your Mama and them, the folks back home.)
 

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Posted by Timtim (# 2643) on :
 
IMHO no-one has properly explained the regions to the Americans. Those outside London will denigrate my portioning of Britain, and - fair cop - I am from London, but now seen from afar in the distant Antipodes my view of the UK seems to be even more true.

There are three things all people in the UK tend to have in common.

1) Pessimism.
Commonly this is thought to be because of the country's declining importance over the last fifty years. Not so. It is because of the weather. It varies from fatalistic London gloominess to Glaswegian black humour. People from sunnier climes such as SA, Aus and NZ tend to slide into melancholy after a while too.

2) Conservatism
In the UK nothing is new. Even piles of litter may well contain Henry V's empty chip packet. People travel to work on ancient trains and work in ancient buildings. The government sits surrounded by mediaeval heraldic splendour. This leads to a strong sense of continuity and an aversion to try new things, but does lead to a certain ingeniousness in working within those boundaries.

3) Privacy
This is particularly so in the southern half of the country but across the rest too. Brits have a strong sense of privacy and unwittingly treat an encounter with a new acquaintance like the opening of a game of chess. It is easy for the unfortunate American to fall foul of coming on too strong. Join in the game of chess, and you will be fine. The 'chess' principle is true regardless of class or region. A Glaswegian might disagree with me on this, if comparing to a southerner, but that same Glaswegian should then compare his or herself with most people from other countries round the world.

There are only three regions - I list them in order of importance.

1) London.
Geographical area: Not just the GLA, but the entire built up area including Reading and Luton, home to roughly half the entire population of the UK.

As this is both the largest, wealthiest and most diverse region in Europe it's difficult to sum up but I will try. It is an area of dense inhabitation and a reasonably wet climate. It is slightly more Americanised than the rest of the UK. People are less reserved but also less friendly and fair-minded than popularly thought. Very conservative round the edges, slightly mad and innovative in the centre.
Its is one of the world's great centres and is a focal point for people across the Commonwealth and other areas of the world.

Capital: (inner) The West End (outer) Reading.
Religion: designer sports gear.
Language: Ali G/Queen Elizabeth II.
Sport: football, with cricket a distant second.
Food: Fashion food (overpriced) Curry (underpriced). Australian wine.
Regional Film: Bend it like Beckham.

2) The Provinces
Geographical area:
England outside of London.

Also known as 'Middle England' I have included Yorkshire in with it as typical Yorkshire parochialism is typical of the rest of the region. Home to post-industrial cities which have always, and continue to, generate wealth for London. Countryside in the Provinces contains the lion's share of Britain's wealth of historic and beautiful buildings. The Staffordshire Bull Terrier, a dog bred for fighting, comes from this region.

Capitals: Manchester, Leeds, Birmingham and possibly Bristol.
Religion: Patriotism.
Language: Urdu.
Sport: football; rugby league in the north and rugby union in the south, and cricket.
Food: Fish and chips; and curry. Bitter beer.
Film: The Full Monty.

3) The Celtic Fringe.
Geographical area: Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland.

Generally post industrial and impoverished areas which have started to rediscover their past identity (Scotland was independent less than three hundred years ago). Home to post-industrial cities which have ceased to generate any wealth for London with the exception of Aberdeen which is a cold, grey town sitting on a lake of oil and is to be avoided unless you work for BP. However, these areas may in time generate wealth for Brussels. Home to the best hillwalking in the UK. People in Northern Ireland are very friendly... to outsiders.

Capital (Scotland) Glasgow, (Wales) Cardiff, (N.I) Belfast.
Religion: Nationalism.
Language: Not English.
Sport: Football, and rugby union. In Glasgow- stealing cars.
Food: Anything fried. Vodka.
Film: Trainspotting.
 

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Posted by Annie P (# 3453) on :
 
Hi TimTim. Thanks for your condensed desciption of the UK. Just wondered if you'd had a chance to look at Ken's more ellaborate post ( ) which I think you'll find highly amusing. It's on page 2 (and since I'm a pathetic person who can't do links) you'll have to find it on your own. Sorry!
 

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Posted by Eanswyth (# 3363) on :
 
Question for Brits:
What are O levels and A levels? I know they are levels of education, but what specifically?
 

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Posted by Miss Nomer (# 1430) on :
 
Eanswyth 'O' levels were the exam taken at 16 these were ordinary level exams. They were used alongside CSE (certificate of secondary education) which required a lower standard to pass. They have now been replaced by GCSE - general certificate of secondary education. This is supposed to be a fairer more equal system.

A levels (advanced levels) still exist and are generally sat at 18 after 2 years of further study. This is what is required for entry to university.
 

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Posted by Eanswyth (# 3363) on :
 
Thank you.
 

---

Posted by Timtim (# 2643) on :
 
I did read Ken's post and it was most amusing, but I think he split the UK into too many regions.
 

---

Posted by Annie P (# 3453) on :
 
I actually quite liked the way ken broke them up as living in the north of England I don't consider myself part of middle England. I suspect that most of Yorkshire think the same!! Also, Lancs and Yorks don't always like being grouped together. Sorry mate!
 

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Posted by Astro (# 84) on :
 
In politics I have discovered that roads round a capital are important in both countries so
inside the beltway (US)
and inside the M25 (UK)
mean the same time when talking about politics (as distict from geographic location when they are an ocean apart)
 

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Posted by ken (# 2460) on :
 
M25? That's the outer darkness mate! What London Transport Zone is it in? 6-and-three-quarters or something.

Never trust anyone who lives beyond Zone 2. Maybe Zone 3 if they have to...
 

---

Posted by Miss Nomer (# 1430) on :
 
Ken I live in zone D - what do you make of that
 

---

Posted by ken (# 2460) on :
 
Zone D? Is that the one with Moose Jaw in it? About 13 days out on the Metropolitan Line, beyond the Chilterns? You probably need an escort of Cossacks to get there safely without being ambushed.
 

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Posted by Robert Miller (# 1459) on :
 
Got this in my inbox recently:

State Motto's

Alabama: Hell Yes, We Have Electricity
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Alaska: 11,623 Eskimos Can't Be Wrong!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Arizona: But It's A Dry Heat
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Arkansas: Literacy Ain't Everything
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
California: By 30, Our Women Have More Plastic Than Your Honda
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Colorado: If You Don't Ski, Don't Bother
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Connecticut: Like Massachusetts, Only The Kennedy's Don't Own It -- Yet
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Delaware: We Really Do Like The Chemicals In Our Water
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Florida: Ask Us About Our Grandkids
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Georgia: We Put The "Fun" In Fundamentalist Extremism
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Hawaii: Haka Tiki Mou Sha'ami Leeki Toru
(Death To Mainland Scum, But Leave Your Money)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Idaho: More Than Just Potatoes ... Well Okay, We're Not, But The Potatoes Sure Are Real Good
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Illinois: Please Don't Pronounce the "S"
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Indiana: 2 Billion Years Tidal Wave Free
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Iowa: We Do Amazing Things With Corn
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Kansas: First Of The Rectangle States
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Kentucky: Five Million People; Fifteen Last Names
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Louisiana: We're Not ALL Drunk Cajun Wackos, But That's Our Tourism Campaign
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Maine: We're Really Cold, But We Have Cheap Lobster
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Maryland: If You Can Dream It, We Can Tax It
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Massachusetts: Our Taxes Are Lower Than Sweden's (For Most Tax Brackets)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Michigan: First Line Of Defense From The Canadians
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Minnesota: 10,000 Lakes... And 10,000,000,000,000 Mosquitoes
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Mississippi: Come And Feel Better About Your Own State
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Missouri: Your Federal Flood Relief Tax Dollars At Work
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Montana: Land Of The Big Sky, The Unabomber, Right-wing Crazies, And Very Little Else
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Nebraska: Ask About Our State Motto Contest
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Nevada: Hookers and Poker!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
New Hampshire: Go Away And Leave Us Alone
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
New Jersey: You Want A ##$%##! Motto? I Got Yer ##$%##! Motto Right Here!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
New Mexico: Lizards Make Excellent pets
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
New York: You Have The Right To Remain Silent, You Have The Right To An Attorney ...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
North Carolina: Tobacco Is A Vegetable
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
North Dakota: We Really Are One Of The 50 States!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ohio: At Least We're Not Michigan
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Oklahoma: Like The Play, Only No Singing
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Oregon: Spotted Owl... It's What's For Dinner
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Pennsylvania: Cook With Coal
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Rhode Island: We're Not REALLY An Island
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
South Carolina: Remember The Civil War? We Didn't Actually Surrender
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
South Dakota: Closer Than North Dakota
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Tennessee: The Educashun State
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Texas: Si' Hablo Ing'les (Yes, I Speak English)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Utah: Our Jesus Is Better Than Your Jesus
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >
Vermont: Yep
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Virginia: Who Says Government Stiffs And Slackjaw Yokels Don't Mix?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Washington: Help! We're Overrun By Nerds And Slackers!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Washington, D.C.: Wanna Be Mayor?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
West Virginia: One Big Happy Family... Really!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Wisconsin: Come Cut The Cheese
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Wyoming: Where Men Are Men . . . and the sheep are scared!
 

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Posted by Miss Nomer (# 1430) on :
 
Ken those of us from outside the M25 deep in the Chilterns know no fear on that old Met Line or the good old A40.
 

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Posted by ChrisT (# 62) on :
 
After Robert Millers appraisal of US STates, how about a list for UK Counties?

Yorkshire: We welcome foreigners, as long as you leave quick

Lancashire: Not all black pudding and coal, we have hills as well

Any more...?

London, Cambridgeshire, Scotland, Wales, Devon/Cornwall etc etc...
 

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Posted by Miss Nomer (# 1430) on :
 
Buckinghamshire - not in my backyard
 

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Posted by Campbellite (# 1202) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by jedijudy:
Oh, dear. Cold. brrrr!

It was cold here last week. Daytime temp was in the low 80's!!! Nightime was about 64 degrees! Now, I love the heat as much as anyone, but must admit to enjoying that little bit of nippiness.

But...we're back to 90 degrees, and 73 at night. ***sigh***

jj

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I'm with you on this one, Sister Judy. Any place you cannot grow cotton is not fit for year round human habitation.
 

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Posted by Erin (# 2) on :
 
It's not going to make it out of the 60s here today. That is just wrong, man.
 

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Posted by Miss Nomer (# 1430) on :
 
Dipped below 40 today at my house - nice & fresh
 

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Posted by sharkshooter (# 1589) on :
 
Current temperature -9° C (that is approx. 16° F).

I'd take mid-60's right now.
 

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Posted by logician (# 3266) on :
 
I loved the state mottoes. We do need to get some variety for the southern sates. One joke isn't enough. I think "It's not the heat, it's the humidity," should go in there, as well as the northern version "But it's worse with the wind chill."

Canadians care to have a go?
 

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Posted by Sparrow (# 2458) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by ChrisT:
After Robert Millers appraisal of US STates, how about a list for UK Counties?

Yorkshire: We welcome foreigners, as long as you leave quick

Lancashire: Not all black pudding and coal, we have hills as well

Any more...?

London, Cambridgeshire, Scotland, Wales, Devon/Cornwall etc etc...

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quote:

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Originally posted by logician:
...

There is also a running misery competition among the cold regions, reminiscent of Monty Python's "Four Yorkshiremen" sketch. One wins by losing, so to speak. I will say this for cold, however: it does keep the riffraff out.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Henry Troup:
Ottawa is now the third coldest capital city - after Ulan Bator and Moscow.

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