quote:

---

Originally posted by Amos:
Folks, the English of our generation greet each other by saying 'Orrigh?' I'm still working out what the correct reply is--I think it may be a simple repetition of the question.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Amos:
Folks, the English of our generation greet each other by saying 'Orrigh?' I'm still working out what the correct reply is--I think it may be a simple repetition of the question.

---

I've always found "Not bad, mate- and yerself?" to be quite effective, but I know it depends on the way in which the question is asked.

Of course, there's no possible (acceptable) response to indicate that you're not all right / orright: it's not the done thing, or somesuch. Anyone meeting with such a perculiar response will almost certainly ignore it, out of politeness. And quickly change the topic of conversation to their three-year-old's new bunny playboy girl outfit.
 

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Posted by mr_ricarno (# 6064) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ship's Meerkat:
Of course, there's no possible (acceptable) response to indicate that you're not all right / orright: it's not the done thing, or somesuch.

---

I remember a certain former US President (I forget which one) used to greet everyone with a warm handshake and the words 'I murdered my grandmother this morning'. Because of the way he delivered his message, no-one caught on to what he was realy saying and just assumed he was saying 'I'm fine, thank you'. Or somesuch.

Scary, isn't it?

Being a Brit myself, I recognise that it is we who are totally normal and you foreigners are the ones who are strange.

Um, please don't send me to Hell for that one...
 

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Posted by Balaam (# 4543) on :
 
Any nation which calls its uplands 'downs' has to be strange. In my neck of the woods we call them 'southerners'.
 

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Posted by Peppone (# 3855) on :
 
Before I left the UK, I thought our attitude to work- ie, we hate and avoid it- was the global norm. Then I met Americans, who get, as far as I can tell, about 5 working days vacation a year and are considered weak if they actually take it. And Hong Kongers, who stared at me uncomprehendingly when I got up to leave the office at 5pm. Most of them would be there until 10, maybe later.

So it turns out to be strange that we are a nation of workshy, malingering loafers.

Or maybe I just speak for myself.
 

---

Posted by Ship's Meerkat (# 5213) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Peppone:
Before I left the UK, I thought our attitude to work- ie, we hate and avoid it- was the global norm. Then I met Americans, who get, as far as I can tell, about 5 working days vacation a year and are considered weak if they actually take it. And Hong Kongers, who stared at me uncomprehendingly when I got up to leave the office at 5pm. Most of them would be there until 10, maybe later.

So it turns out to be strange that we are a nation of workshy, malingering loafers.

Or maybe I just speak for myself.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ship's Meerkat:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Peppone:
Before I left the UK, I thought our attitude to work- ie, we hate and avoid it- was the global norm. Then I met Americans, who get, as far as I can tell, about 5 working days vacation a year and are considered weak if they actually take it. And Hong Kongers, who stared at me uncomprehendingly when I got up to leave the office at 5pm. Most of them would be there until 10, maybe later.

So it turns out to be strange that we are a nation of workshy, malingering loafers.

Or maybe I just speak for myself.

---

Hmmm. I know someone who's worked for a multinational company on several continents, and made similar observations. I didn't work it out at the time, but us Brits do seem to have a very different working culture. Does anyone have any idea why?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Amos:
Where to begin? I've had a hell of a time learning to greet the English. I used to say 'Hello' or 'Good morning', and, as an American I thought the question 'Are you all right?' was a solicitous indication that either my neuroses or my underwear was showing. Now I know better. Folks, the English of our generation greet each other by saying 'Orrigh?' I'm still working out what the correct reply is--I think it may be a simple repetition of the question.

---

I was born here, I've lived here all my life, but I don't understand it either!!

Mind you, my mother is American (which probably explains a lot of other things about me too!) and my father is Scottish - which begs another question - are we talking here about British culture, or English culture?

As Flanders & Swan (icons of comedy for those of us who remember the 60's over here) used to say -

"The rule is, if we've done something wonderful, it's Another Triumph For Great Britain, but if it's bad, we say England Loses Again"


 

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Posted by Go Anne Go (# 3519) on :
 
Ah, having lived five years in England and the rest in America, I've dealt with many of these problems.

I still remember the first time someone said "All right?" to me. It was Malcolm, I was in a lecture hall waiting for the lecture to start, and having been the object of recent trauma of which Malcolm knew, I took it as a serious enquiry into my physical and mental state. Oops!

Lucky old Malcolm was also the subject of the time that he was explaining something to me, and then said "Bob's your uncle!" I was completely confused, as I had never heard the expression before, and do in fact have an uncle named Bob, and really could NOT figure out what Uncle Bob had to do with a conversation on how to change a tire.

Other fun conversational gaffes included trying to borrow a pair of braces/suspenders that hold your trousers up for a party. My friend Jonathan knew what I wanted, but didn't bother to correct my usage. Knowing that his housemate Rick had a pair of suspenders/garter belt from a Rocky Horror party, but not bothering to let me in on the joke, he got me to go up to Rick (who at that point I had met like twice) and say "Hey, Jon says you've got a pair of suspenders I can borrow?" Rick was quite embarrassed. Jon was terribly amused.

As for the work thing, my best friend's (he's a Brit) company was bought out recently by a US company, so now he works with the lawyers there. One of the new US lawyers just came from a big firm, where she worked 50 of the last 52 weekends for a year. Steve didn't understand why she brought this up. I informed him that in NY law firm culture, she's boasting, and trying to impress him. He thought this was totally sick. I think he's right.

[ 05. June 2004, 14:41: Message edited by: Go Anne Go ]
 

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Posted by AngelaSo (# 6699) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:

quote:

---

Hmmm. I know someone who's worked for a multinational company on several continents, and made similar observations. I didn't work it out at the time, but us Brits do seem to have a very different working culture. Does anyone have any idea why?

---

We like having time to spend with friends and family?

---

I'd lived in London UK for a year.... 15 year in Hong Kong as a child, and 10 years in Canada.

Why English people love to go to pubs??? I can't remember a week without going to pubs with my colleagues and friends when I was in the UK. And I can't understand why the UK doesn't have light beer for sale.

In Canada... or at least in London, Ontario and in Toronto, people love to spend time at coffee shops, especially the one called Tim Horton's. Canadians drink coffee like drinking water.

[fixed quote]

[ 07. June 2004, 11:05: Message edited by: Stoo ]
 

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Posted by starbelly (# 25) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by AngelaSo:
I can't remember a week without going to pubs with my colleagues and friends when I was in the UK.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by AngelaSo:
Why English people love to go to pubs??? I can't remember a week without going to pubs with my colleagues and friends when I was in the UK. And I can't understand why the UK doesn't have light beer for sale.

---

Light beer? What's that?

Seriously?

Most pubs serve Stella Artois, which must be a little light on the beer front so they can fit the feline urine in the keg. But I don't imagine that's the stuff you're referring to. I have no idea why anyone would want to drink it.


 

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Posted by RuthW (# 13) on :
 
Light beer is reduced calorie beer.

My questions:

What's a pub quiz?

How much do you really hate American tourists? I've read numerous complaints about American tourists on these boards, but when I travelled in Britain, even when I did things that apparently just aren't done - like strike up conversations with complete strangers on the train - no one rolled their eyes and said, "Oh crap, an American." Some folks were even quite friendly and asked where I was from, how long I'd be in the UK and what I was planning to see, what did I think of it, etc. Were they letting down the side?
 

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Posted by Papio. (# 4201) on :
 
A pub quiz is a quiz held in a pub. Do they not do that in America?

Light beer sounds grim.
 

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Posted by Qlib (# 43) on :
 
No, they weren't letting the side down; we like you really (most of you, anyway) but we like moaning even more. Also because the Brits (especially the English) are so uptight, some days we'd never talk to anybody if we didn't talk to puzzled foreign tourists. It's the closest a lot of us get to therapy.
 

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Posted by Seth (# 3623) on :
 
Amen!
 

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Posted by Papio. (# 4201) on :
 
It depends on the American tourists. We hate the loud, arrogant ones who expect some tiny little corner shop in the middle of nowhere to take dollars, make audible patronising comments about everything, go around with 2500 camera's around their necks and think people are stupid because they say "pavement" instead of "sidewalk" and "launderette" instead of "laundermatt". And get offended because people have British attitude and not American ones.

Most of the American toursits/exchange students I have met have been lovely, but the one or two who were like the above:

The type of American I have just described is the archtypical British stereotype of an American tourist, although I sincerely doubt that people actually think that more than a handful of Americans are actually like that.
 

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Posted by Ormo (# 4805) on :
 
Even the mean ones get slightly abrupt politeness, which often americans don't seem to recognise the abruptness and consider it as simple politeness...

[ 05. June 2004, 17:24: Message edited by: Ormo ]
 

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Posted by RuthW (# 13) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Qlib:
No, they weren't letting the side down; we like you really (most of you, anyway) but we like moaning even more. Also because the Brits (especially the English) are so uptight, some days we'd never talk to anybody if we didn't talk to puzzled foreign tourists. It's the closest a lot of us get to therapy.

---

(Realizing how much therapy I gave to Brits when I was there!)

This does make me wonder how on earth you make friends with each other, you know!
 

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Posted by Seth (# 3623) on :
 
By moaning,Ruth...
 

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Posted by Papio. (# 4201) on :
 
Ruth - what makes you wonder how we befriend each other?

Brits are usually polite to people faces even if we can't stand you. It's the tone of voice you need to watch.
 

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Posted by RuthW (# 13) on :
 
Seth: Ah, I see. So next time I visit the UK if I want to strike up conversations with people, I should grumble about the train being late or the weather being bad? The weather was stunningly gorgeous when I was there; perhaps I could have complained about the sun? After all, the farmers need the rain, don't they?

Edit because of cross-post: Papio, I was being facetious.

[ 05. June 2004, 17:32: Message edited by: RuthW ]
 

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Posted by Papio. (# 4201) on :
 
Well, in Yorkshire, if you ask someone how they are and they say "nae too bad, could be worse I suppose" then you know they are having a good day.
 

---

Posted by Seth (# 3623) on :
 

 

---

Posted by Seth (# 3623) on :
 
Isn't Ruth a decent sort?
 

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Posted by footdoc (# 4389) on :
 
What's strange about the English? The faith we place in tea.
Its more than a national beverage its almost a religion.

There is no trauma, injury, disaster, known to man that cannot be soothed by the comforting knowledge that the kettle is on and a cuppa brewing.

Im still in shock following my trip to PA a few years ago, where there was no kettle, and they suggested I got hot water out the tap to make tea!! BLEUGH!! Everyone in the house where I stayed only ever drank coke... gross.
 

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Posted by Papio. (# 4201) on :
 
Ruth, you just need to bear in mind that Brits aren't (on the whole) tremendously good at enthusiasm.
 

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Posted by Papio. (# 4201) on :
 
If you really want to strike up a conversation with a randon Brit some good subjects would be:

The Weather
The price of bread
Posh n Becks (with younger Brits)
How crap the trains are
 

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Posted by Ship's Meerkat (# 5213) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by footdoc:
What's strange about the English? The faith we place in tea.
Its more than a national beverage its almost a religion.

There is no trauma, injury, disaster, known to man that cannot be soothed by the comforting knowledge that the kettle is on and a cuppa brewing.

---

Are you suggesting that there is some event that can't be solved using careful application of tea?

For is it not written that neither death nor life, nor angels nor principalities nor powers, nor things present nor things to come, nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing shall be able to separate an Englishman from his tea. Or, at worst, it might just maybe separate us but nothing can stop us from politely moaning about its absense.

Oh damnation, that was heresy again, wasn't it?
 

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Posted by Kenwritez (# 3238) on :
 
I really, truly enjoy talking to complete strangers while waiting in line or whatever. Sure, I've run into some jerks but easily 95% of them have been at least polite to me, and sometimes we even have a great conversation, even if it's brief. (Often you meet the most fascinating people! I met Roy Orbison's nieces that way.) As a point, I would not have met one of my best friends had I not struck up a conversation with him when we were seated near each other at a writer's conference.

Am I correct in picking up from this thread that talking to strangers is "not done" in England? Would the natives look at me as if I were a lunatic if I talked to them? Does this hold in other parts of the UK: Scotland, Ireland, Wales, etc.?

A previous poster talked about different pubs have different cultures. What would be some examples of this?
 

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Posted by babybear (# 34) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Kenwritez:
Am I correct in picking up from this thread that talking to strangers is "not done" in England? Would the natives look at me as if I were a lunatic if I talked to them? Does this hold in other parts of the UK: Scotland, Ireland, Wales, etc.?

A previous poster talked about different pubs have different cultures. What would be some examples of this?

---

• On a train / waiting for a train / other public transport situation where everything's gone completely wrong. Give a rueful grin to someone, and if they acknowledge your presence, you may start a conversation about what a shambles it is, which may or may not eventually move on to a general conversation. Please note this is only if you have been delayed for a considerable amount of time, at which point the British phenomenon known as the "Dunkirk spirit" kicks in, and it would then be rude not to converse with your fellow sufferer. The point at which ignoring one another gives way to "all pulling together" is extremely difficult to define.
• If you and the other person are the only people for miles around and it would be rude not to acknowledge their presence.
• In the country, if you pass another walker, you may greet them as you go by.
• erm... there might be some more but I can't think of them for now. Anyone else got any bright ideas?

[cross-posted with bb, who is saying the total opposite... just goes to show that there are no hard and fast rules It's probably safe to say that the "don't talk to each other" rule applies more in big cities than anywhere else.]

[ 05. June 2004, 18:19: Message edited by: Norman the Organ ]
 

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Posted by RuthW (# 13) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Seth:
Isn't Ruth a decent sort?

---

But I talk to people on trains.

Thanks, Norman and babybear. Now I know that in Britain it's safe to talk to the bears, but not the organists.

Still wondering about the pub quiz thing. Do the pubs sponsor quizzes and give prizes, or is this an informal thing where some patron just stands up and says, "Right. Time for the quiz. We'll start with any easy one: how many of his wives did Henry VIII kill?"
 

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Posted by Qlib (# 43) on :
 
Usually there is a pub quiz league - they organise the question setter and the championship shield or whatever. Yes, I know it's sad but.... Anyway, the pubs offer hospitality (part of a room and maybe sandwiches) usually on a Sunday night when they have less customers. Because a pub quiz team is usually four people so that's at least 8 (two teams), generally 9 (Question master as well) on a night when your normal maximum is three, and a smelly old dog. They are all expected to buy drinks, you see.

P.S. Babybear doesn't do the full English uptightness thing because she lives in Wales (yes?). Celts are more outgoing and emotionally literate, as a general rule.

[ 05. June 2004, 18:55: Message edited by: Qlib ]
 

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Posted by Glass Angel (# 5779) on :
 
I think levels of tourist animosity depend on what area of the country you're in as well. I never disliked American tourists too much until I moved to Cambridge, which seems to have American tourists oozing out of the woodwork.

Between May and September it takes about three and a half hours to navigate King's Parade because it is packed with camera-wielding, postcard-buying, direction-asking tourists, and then they have the audacity to actually come into the Colleges! Can you believe it? But seriously, I think most visitors forget that the Colleges are actually home to an awful lot of people, and that yes, people really do live in them, and that we do not especially appreciate having people hanging round outside admiring the architecture. Nor do we like it when people wander in to have a look at the wonderful Medieval Hall when we are eating our dinner in it. Oh yes, and people wandering around wearing gowns do not want to have their photo taken, no matter how English/ old fashioned/ stupid they look. And what's more...oh hang on, this isn't Hell is it? Perhaps I should shut up now.

All American tourists are lovely really. Just don't ask for directions to the University.
 

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Posted by Amphibalus (# 5351) on :
 
In the more deeply rural parts of England's green and pleasant, the traditional response to any alien intrusion (such as anyone from the next village) is: ''Ere's a stranger, 'eave a brick at 'im'.

In the light of the above discussion, and having been a few times to the States and got used to the friendliness, I recall trying to strike up a conversation with a group of North Americans in a railway carriage earlier this year. It was like swimming through treacle - but they were Canadians. Does that make a difference?
 

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Posted by The Undiscovered Country (# 4811) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by dorcas:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Amos:
Where to begin? I've had a hell of a time learning to greet the English. I used to say 'Hello' or 'Good morning', and, as an American I thought the question 'Are you all right?' was a solicitous indication that either my neuroses or my underwear was showing. Now I know better. Folks, the English of our generation greet each other by saying 'Orrigh?' I'm still working out what the correct reply is--I think it may be a simple repetition of the question.

---

I was born here, I've lived here all my life, but I don't understand it either!!

Mind you, my mother is American (which probably explains a lot of other things about me too!) and my father is Scottish - which begs another question - are we talking here about British culture, or English culture?

As Flanders & Swan (icons of comedy for those of us who remember the 60's over here) used to say -

"The rule is, if we've done something wonderful, it's Another Triumph For Great Britain, but if it's bad, we say England Loses Again"

---

Good point, which I should thought about in using 'British' rather than 'English' in the title, especially isnce my wife is Scottish and, like most Scots, finds the English just as puzzling as everyone else.

When she moved to England, one of the things which bothered her was how the English would only offer a cup of tea or coffee and perhaps a biscuit to a visitor to their house. For ages she felt she was being positively unhospitable by making even the casual visitor anything less than a sandwich.
 

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Posted by Qlib (# 43) on :
 
Yes, in really touristy areas people mostly hate all tourists on principle. And at least you can forgive foreigners a bit because, being foreign, they, of course, don't know any better.
 

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Posted by Kenwritez (# 3238) on :
 
When I visit the UK metropolii, I shall be sure to wear the placard around my neck, FOREIGNER, and ring my cowbell while continuously begging forgiveness for my alienness....
 

---

Posted by Glass Angel (# 5779) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Qlib:
Yes, in really touristy areas people mostly hate all tourists on principle. And at least you can forgive foreigners a bit because, being foreign, they, of course, don't know any better.

---

Yes, and I'm of the opinion that those people who talked to Ruth on the train were probably only humouring her.
 

---

Posted by Papio. (# 4201) on :
 
Re: the pub quiz. A local pub (called the Firey Angle otherwise known amongst students as the Firey A-hole) has a weekly quiz with seperate rounds.

For example, they will have a series of questions on Sport, then TV, then General Knowledge, then History, then Pop-Music, then something utterly random like Kings and Queens in the Bible or something.

The winning team wins booze. My housemates and I (together with assorted girlfriends and random people we know) have won a grand total of once. Be impressed.
 

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Posted by Amos (# 44) on :
 
In the US, when your car gets mud and salt and grime on it, you generally take it to a carwash. There it goes through a giant scrubbing machine, and for a small fee and a decent tip, the young men employed by the carwash will polish it, vacuum it, and spray it with the scent of new plastic. You do this about once a month, max, or a little oftener if it's really filthy.

In the UK carwashing is a sacrament which another cannot perform on your behalf. Up and down the country, every weekend--sometimes every day, if they get home early--Britons are out on the street with hose and bucket and sponge, various bottles of simonizing solutions, and the family vacuum. There appears to be great shame attached to the dirtiness of the family car, and, indeed, I have noticed Britons who wash their cars more than they appear to wash themselves. Please, can someone explain this phenomena?
 

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Posted by Amos (# 44) on :
 
'Phenomenon'. Bugger.
 

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Posted by Jengie (# 273) on :
 
First off there is one clear exception to the no talk rule on trains .....

When the train is running ridiculously late. You know when this is because the train line starts offering you free drinks! Then the practise is to blether about whats going on, the worst train journey you ever had and whether you will get where you need to.

Actually there seems to be a policy that if you take something like knitting and try to do it on the train, then they can talk to you!!!

The other conversation that is acceptable is to ask about the train

quote:

---

Is this the 15:32 to Little Whammy and is it stopping at Great Budchester.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Qlib:
Yes, in really touristy areas people mostly hate all tourists on principle. And at least you can forgive foreigners a bit because, being foreign, they, of course, don't know any better.

---

I've lived in a couple of touristy places and, yes, I hate tourists*... because they damn well get in the way of me pursuing my daily life by crowding pavements and walking slowly gawking at things I've seen a thousand times before.

Of course, I've now moved to a town that sees very few tourists, so I've removed that source of stress from my life

As for tea? Don't drink the stuff. However, the reason it is seen as a panacea for all ills is its association with relaxation... which is usually a helpful thing to do when stressed by disasters.

Gremlin

* as a general rule, I have come across nice individuals, but as a group they are the pits.
 

---

Posted by Papio. (# 4201) on :
 
But you have to admit that Yorkshire folk have a special knack with understatement and lack of enthusiasm?
 

---

Posted by Amphibalus (# 5351) on :
 
'appen.
 

---

Posted by The Bede's American Successor (# 5042) on :
 
Taking notes from this thread, as there is a chance, still remote at this point--but the recruiter sounded upbeat--that I will be taking new employment that might require me to travel to London this summer.

Remember not to ask where the University is, or to snap pictures of the natives in their local plummage eating dinner. Only talk on the train to make sure one is on the correct one, or when things have gone terribly wrong. Practice understatement.

Now, how do I handle not being able to handle caffiene (read: tea)? As much as I like good tea (which around here usually means Canadian), if it isn't decaffinated, I become performance art. Really. I start yelling and screaming at people, which would probably break a few rules about not talking to strangers or practicing understatement.
 

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Posted by Amos (# 44) on :
 
That's okay. You ask for a glass of milk. In a dirty glass.
 

---

Posted by Qlib (# 43) on :
 
We do herb teas in most places in Britain. Fruit, peppermint or camomile. And also caffeine-free coffee. Caffeine-free cola never really caught on. It might still get you some strange looks in some places (Avoid 'caffs', as opposed to cafes, if you can tell the difference?) Have fun.
 

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Posted by dorcas (# 4775) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by The Bede's American Successor:
Taking notes from this thread, as there is a chance, still remote at this point--but the recruiter sounded upbeat--that I will be taking new employment that might require me to travel to London this summer.

---

And if you're in a public place don't ever ask for the bathroom or, even worse, the restroom - in the latter case, you'll probably be asked if you're allright and would you like a cuppa??
Instead, ask for "the loo", or "the ladies'" or "the gents'"

 

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Posted by The Bede's American Successor (# 5042) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Qlib:
We do herb teas in most places in Britain. Fruit, peppermint or camomile. And also caffeine-free coffee. Caffeine-free cola never really caught on. It might still get you some strange looks in some places (Avoid 'caffs', as opposed to cafes, if you can tell the difference?) Have fun.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Amos:
That's okay. You ask for a glass of milk. In a dirty glass.

---

To die. Alone.

Excuse me, I thought you were giving Ernest Hemingway's answer.

At least as a resident of Washington state that travelled to Alberta last summer, I don't need to worry about picking up Mad Cow while in England. I can do it right here at home.
 

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Posted by Amos (# 44) on :
 
You did get the allusion, Bede, didn't you?


(It's from 'Road to Utopia' with Bob Hope et al)
 

---

Posted by Nonpropheteer (# 5053) on :
 
I can't believe this hasn't made it to ten pages yet.

What about "aluminum"? I heard it pronounced recently on the BBC as "al-you-min-ee-um". That's a whole extra syllable, I think. Maybe we can get Mousethief in here to verify that.
 

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Posted by cms (# 3818) on :
 
We give it five syllables because it's spelt "aluminium". And we don't pronounce "nuclear" as "nucular" either.
 

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Posted by Ship's Meerkat (# 5213) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Nonpropheteer:
I can't believe this hasn't made it to ten pages yet.

What about "aluminum"? I heard it pronounced recently on the BBC as "al-you-min-ee-um". That's a whole extra syllable, I think. Maybe we can get Mousethief in here to verify that.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ship's Meerkat:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Nonpropheteer:
I can't believe this hasn't made it to ten pages yet.

What about "aluminum"? I heard it pronounced recently on the BBC as "al-you-min-ee-um". That's a whole extra syllable, I think. Maybe we can get Mousethief in here to verify that.

---

Ah, American English. So much to answer for.

Internationally impolite as it may perhaps be, I doubt we can find a Brit on this board who'll say that American English is a superior form of language to proper English... because it isn't! We're right, damn' it!

(pompous limey wipes spittle from mouth)

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Firenze:
I continually strike up conversations on, or waiting for, various forms of transport. By these means, you frequently learn valuable local information if you are the tourist, or impart it if you are the resident.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by cms:
We give it five syllables because it's spelt "aluminium".

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by cms:
We give it five syllables because it's spelt "aluminium".

---

So how do you pronounce "Cholmondeley"? It's got four syllables.
 

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Posted by Ariel (# 58) on :
 
Chumley. With 2 syllables.
 

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Posted by Seth (# 3623) on :
 


I'm going to contadict Ship's Meerkat and
say,as a Brit,that I prefer American English..

It's both more creative,IMO(African-American,'buffyspeak')and,so I hear,more archaic than British English,at least in Appalachia..
 

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Posted by Seth (# 3623) on :
 
I made a rather academic point badly then,but kudos to Sine
 

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Posted by krill (# 6537) on :
 
What I want to know is if yall can type without an accent, why can't yall talk without one

[ 06. June 2004, 12:06: Message edited by: krill ]
 

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Posted by Boopy (# 4738) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Amos:

In the UK carwashing is a sacrament which another cannot perform on your behalf. Up and down the country, every weekend--sometimes every day, if they get home early--Britons are out on the street with hose and bucket and sponge, various bottles of simonizing solutions, and the family vacuum. There appears to be great shame attached to the dirtiness of the family car, and, indeed, I have noticed Britons who wash their cars more than they appear to wash themselves. Please, can someone explain this phenomena?

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quote:

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Originally posted by Kenwritez:
A previous poster talked about different pubs have different cultures. What would be some examples of this?

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• Faux-chintz: the default setting. A sombre badly lit affair in maroon velvet, inhabited by one man and his whippet.
• The Real-Ale Experience: Has evolved from the faux-chintz by removing the paisley carpet and polishing the floor-boards. An extension to the bar allows it to serve 8 cask ales, 14 tap bitters, 4 stouts and 1 larger-substitute. Comes complete with two bearded stout fellows who can converse at length about yeast cultures and home-brew.
• The Country-Dinner: having passed through the real-ale stage this pub has evolved into a gourmet's delight. Cooking 'home' made food like the real-ale pie to perfection, which can be followed by an afternoon sunk in a plush leather sofa in-front of an open fire drinking port and smoking cubans. Unfortunately pubs that do this transition have to be far from town centres and bus routes to stop the oiks from coming in. If you can't afford the taxi, they don't wish your custom.
• The Painfully-Hip: For those establishments who wished to throw out their residential man 'n' whippet there has been the move to blue neon-lighting and spiral staircases leading nowhere. Will stock 4 types of larger that all taste recycled, but will be able to manufacture the perfect Manhattan at the drop of a cut-down black straw.
• The 'Weatherspoon-a-like': McDonald's with stuffed animals and weak beer. Venture in at your peril as are inhabited by men who wear shirts with base-ball hats. (Though I'm told this sartorial statement is more acceptable across the pond)
• My Local: includes cricket and Pimm's, and like all great pubs, it's location is a heavily guarded secret.

quote:

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Originally posted by RuthW:
But I talk to people on trains.

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quote:

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Originally posted by The Bede's American Successor:
I see I might have to add a new term to my vocabulary. I promise that if I drink caffinated tea I will need the loo.

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Bede: only girls go to the "loo". You need to ask for "the gents".

[ 06. June 2004, 17:20: Message edited by: Jack the Lass ]
 

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Posted by Nonpropheteer (# 5053) on :
 
Would a kind British scholar please help me with my spelling?

My neighbors favorite color is gray.

'nuff said.
 

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Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Jack the Lass:

quote:

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Originally posted by The Bede's American Successor:
I see I might have to add a new term to my vocabulary. I promise that if I drink caffinated tea I will need the loo.

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Bede: only girls go to the "loo". You need to ask for "the gents".

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quote:

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Originally posted by Nonpropheteer:
Would a kind British scholar please help me with my spelling?

My neighbors favorite color is gray.

'nuff said.

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Never mind the spelling, you missed an apostrophe
 

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Posted by Seth (# 3623) on :
 
I'm not sure,Kelly.'Loo' has no gender specificity for me!

There's definitely gender and class connotations for all these things in this country,though..

Also,in my experience,Americans only tend to close toilet doors when they're using them,whilst Brits are a bit more prissy and prefer to keep them closed at all times.Hence we're much keener on locking toilets when using them!
 

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Posted by Ship's Meerkat (# 5213) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Seth:
I'm going to contadict Ship's Meerkat and
say,as a Brit,that I prefer American English..

It's both more creative,IMO(African-American,'buffyspeak')and,so I hear,more archaic than British English,at least in Appalachia..

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More archaic? I beg to disagree! Consider the military rank of lieutenant- surely the correct pronunciation (leff-tenant) is more archaic? British culture, on which the language is based, is probably a much better source of the archaic than America; so I reckon we have a good headstart.

As for creativity, I plead ignorance- I'm an engineer. Although I'm not conceding anything yet!
 

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Posted by Seth (# 3623) on :
 
Gosh I'm slow-sorry!
i was responding to about 4 posts back..
 

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Posted by Seth (# 3623) on :
 
I think we're maybe more traditional,meerkat-but for a long time America was rather isolated,so some of their words are our old ones.If you know what I mean...
 

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Posted by Gracious rebel (# 3523) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Seth:
I'm not sure,Kelly.'Loo' has no gender specificity for me!

There's definitely gender and class connotations for all these things in this country,though..

Also,in my experience,Americans only tend to close toilet doors when they're using them,whilst Brits are a bit more prissy and prefer to keep them closed at all times.Hence we're much keener on locking toilets when using them!

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I'm with Jack the Lass - if I heard a bloke refer to the 'loo' I would do a brief doubletake. He's more likely to say gents or bog ... or even toilet!

The thing about doors and locks is interesting. while in the USA I got a bit freaked out by those door locks on toilets that you cannot verify if they are actually locked or not - the lever that operates the lock, also fastens the door, so from inside you cannot try to open the door to check the lock is functioning without, well, opening/unlocking it! This is most disconcerting for a Brit. If I'd known that for an American a closed door meant someone was in it, I guess I may have been a bit happier with this type of lock!!
 

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Posted by Seth (# 3623) on :
 
Am I making any sense at all?
 

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Posted by Chapelhead (# 1143) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Ship's Meerkat:
Consider the military rank of lieutenant- surely the correct pronunciation (leff-tenant) is more archaic? British culture, on which the language is based, is probably a much better source of the archaic than America; so I reckon we have a good headstart.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Chapelhead:
But the British can't agree what is the correct pronunciation. The army says leff-tenant, the navy says loo-tenant.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Ship's Meerkat:

quote:

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Originally posted by Chapelhead:
But the British can't agree what is the correct pronunciation. The army says leff-tenant, the navy says loo-tenant.

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I think the RAF plump for the leff variant, so a technical majority of the British armed forces seem to agree on that. And anyway I'm inclined to side with the army- they're generally scarier in person!

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And what about the Senior Service?
 

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Posted by LydaRose (# 4544) on :
 

quote:

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'The English accent is so cute'.
No it is not. It is different. You cannot describe the speaking tone of anyone above the age of five as 'cute', a word which is should really only be used to describe puppies at the best of times.

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Cute is a massively over-used Americanism, at least in the sense you speak of. Any person of any age and types of looks up to and including professional wrestlers can be cute; anything slightly amusing is cute; any thing -cars, houses, TV shows, national monuments- can be cute. Arrgh!!!

 

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Posted by Ship's Meerkat (# 5213) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Chapelhead:
And what about the Senior Service?

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Sorry, who? Again, pity a poor ignorant little oik.
 

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Posted by Amos (# 44) on :
 
Re. toilet (or loo) doors. My husband, stepsons, and grandson (British every man jack of them) have a disconcerting habit of shutting the door when they have finished having a pee, but leaving it ajar while they're in there. As an American, my assumption is that if the door is slightly ajar the loo is vacant and the door has been left a l'Americaine so that the bashful guest can figure out which room has the porcellain. This has caused much embarrassment over the years.
 

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Posted by Firenze (# 619) on :
 
Lyda Rose

If it's any consolation, we think of Dubya as a cute hoor*

*'term used to describe someone who will do whatever it takes to achieve what they want. Usually a cute hoor will not break the law but it is seen as willing to bend and use the law, use people or use situations to come out on top, by pulling dishonest or misleading stunts en route.'
 

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Posted by Kenwritez (# 3238) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by LydaRose:
Cute is a massively over-used Americanism, at least in the sense you speak of. Any person of any age and types of looks up to and including professional wrestlers can be cute; anything slightly amusing is cute; any thing -cars, houses, TV shows, national monuments- can be cute. Arrgh!!!

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Isn't she cute when she rants?!
 

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Posted by dorcas (# 4775) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by The Bede's American Successor:


So, I take it that England may have decaf coffee, but not decaf tea?

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It's ok, Sainsbury's sell Twinings decaffeinated tea!! Earl Grey and Traditional!!
 

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Posted by Norman the Organ (# 5477) on :
 
Earl Grey tastes like an infusion made from the sweepings of a Guinea Pig hutch

[normal tea, however, I am addicted to ]

[ 06. June 2004, 21:14: Message edited by: Norman the Organ ]
 

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Posted by dorcas (# 4775) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Ship's Meerkat:

quote:

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Originally posted by Chapelhead:
And what about the Senior Service?

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Sorry, who? Again, pity a poor ignorant little oik.

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When Brits say "the navy" they mean The Royal Navy (as opposed to The Merchant Navy) and because the navy was around before the Army or (well, obviously!) the Air Force they are called the Senior Service. (I wouldn't dare call them Senior Citizens though - my brother might read this!)
 

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Posted by Amos (# 44) on :
 
How do you know, Norman? They ought to pay you more.
 

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Posted by The Bede's American Successor (# 5042) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Norman the Organ:
Earl Grey tastes like an infusion made from the sweepings of a Guinea Pig hutch

[normal tea, however, I am addicted to ]

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quote:

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Originally posted by The Bede's American Successor:
Of course, if you are going to make sweetened iced tea as it is made in some of the southeastern portions of the United States, the sugar kills the taste of all the bad resins. So, Lipton's will work.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Nonpropheteer:
I actually lke Earl Grey tea, if I am drinking hot tea... English Breakfast as wll (assuming that's actually English). But how can someone not like sweet, iced tea? It definately shows the Brits have not fully overcome thier barbarous nature.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
I think the reason the British haven't taken to iced tea is that it needs to be sweetened and adding sugar/sweetener to tea is thought of as very wrong. Adjusting this notion for iced tea hasn't caught on.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Nonpropheteer:
I actually lke Earl Grey tea, if I am drinking hot tea... English Breakfast as wll (assuming that's actually English). But how can someone not like sweet, iced tea? It definately shows the Brits have not fully overcome thier barbarous nature.

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quote:

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Originally posted by krill:
What I want to know is if yall can type without an accent, why can't yall talk without one

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quote:

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Originally posted by Gracious rebel:

quote:

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Originally posted by Seth:
I'm not sure,Kelly.'Loo' has no gender specificity for me!

There's definitely gender and class connotations for all these things in this country,though..

Also,in my experience,Americans only tend to close toilet doors when they're using them,whilst Brits are a bit more prissy and prefer to keep them closed at all times.Hence we're much keener on locking toilets when using them!

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I'm with Jack the Lass - if I heard a bloke refer to the 'loo' I would do a brief doubletake. He's more likely to say gents or bog ... or even toilet!

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quote:

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Originally posted by Nonpropheteer:
I actually lke Earl Grey tea, if I am drinking hot tea... English Breakfast as wll (assuming that's actually English). But how can someone not like sweet, iced tea? It definately shows the Brits have not fully overcome thier barbarous nature.

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quote:

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Originally posted by The Bede's American Successor:

Note to person that was disgusted at using hot tap water for tea:

1. Some people have installed taps on their sinks that distribute 190 degree F (near boiling) water on demand.

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"Near boiling" - not good enough I'm afraid. Actual boiling water poured into a vessel which has previously been warmed is the only way to make decent tea.


[Cross posted wich Amphibalus making the same point!]

[ 06. June 2004, 23:51: Message edited by: Saviour Tortoise ]
 

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Posted by dorcas (# 4775) on :
 
And having drunk your decaff tea, and got to the loo in time, there are further linguistic minefields in which we love to trap Americans....

Are you through? says American (thinking finished)
Through what? says Brit (thinking keyhole)

Purse, pocketbook, chips, jelly, pants, vest, faucet...ooh, lotsa fun!


 

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Posted by Peppone (# 3855) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Moo:
Many years ago when I lived in Belfast, my Irish friends were repelled by the idea of iced tea. They assumed it was like hot tea which had cooled to room temperature.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Saviour Tortoise:

quote:

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Originally posted by The Bede's American Successor:

Note to person that was disgusted at using hot tap water for tea:

1. Some people have installed taps on their sinks that distribute 190 degree F (near boiling) water on demand.

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"Near boiling" - not good enough I'm afraid. Actual boiling water poured into a vessel which has previously been warmed is the only way to make decent tea.

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My office has one of those taps; makes bringing water up to the boil in the microwave for tea a snap.

I'm afraid tea drinkers have a tough row to hoe in a lot of US eateries, though. I'd actually suggest bringing a supply of your favorite in bags.

Charlotte
 

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Posted by AngelaSo (# 6699) on :
 
Oh... I've just thought of another one. American tourists beware.... Don't call those thing "fanny bags" when you are travelling in the UK. The word "fanny" has another meaning in Britian. Since this is the Heaven board, I don't think I should be explaining that alternative meaning here.

Angela
 

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Posted by Mousethief (# 953) on :
 
It's even worse, AngelaSo -- we call 'em Fanny PACKS.
 

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Posted by The Bede's American Successor (# 5042) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Saviour Tortoise:

quote:

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Originally posted by The Bede's American Successor:

Note to person that was disgusted at using hot tap water for tea:

1. Some people have installed taps on their sinks that distribute 190 degree F (near boiling) water on demand.

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"Near boiling" - not good enough I'm afraid. Actual boiling water poured into a vessel which has previously been warmed is the only way to make decent tea.

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quote:

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Kenwritez, they are talking a pile of pants.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Amphibalus:
NP, I personally have no objection to sweet, iced tea, and drank copious quantities of it while on holiday in the South some years ago. I just don't believe that it is really Tea™.

I hope I don't have to remind anyone following this thread that tea does not come in bags (other than the shopping bag in which you carried it home from the store). Tea bags are only used by members of the labouring classes, the indigent poor and students.

Tea is served from a china pot - which has been pre-warmed with boiling hot water (190° is merely lukewarm). The tea leaves are then spooned into the pot, one spoonful per person. ('One for the pot' is a matter of individual preference. Do it if you have to.) The pot is then filled with an appropriate amount of freshly boiled water.

Milk is poured into a china cup*, resting on its saucer, and the tea - having been infused for between one and four minutes depending on the blend - is then poured out. The silver tea strainer which great-grandmama bequeathed you may be employed in this operation if you really must. Milk may be replaced by a thin slice of lemon in the afternoon, but sugar does not even enter into the equation.

As to varieties of leaf, Assam Broken Orange Pekoe (the basis of English Breakfast) is a reasonable choice, or perhaps a Keemun, or Russian Caravan for the afternoon - but there are times when only Gunpowder Green will do.

*The English gentleman is a pre-lactarian. Post-lactarianism is a heresy and an abomination unto the Lord.

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Branching from a discussion in hell about whether chronicles of a certain pre-pubescent wizardly fellow constitute good books, and based on CS Lewis' idea that a good book is one that you enjoy...

Can we not define a good cup of tea as one that the person drinking it enjoys? And therefore subjective?

Perhaps not- my opinion on this may be worthless, as I'm a student and I use teabags.


 

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Posted by Chapelhead (# 1143) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Ship's Meerkat:
Sorry, who? Again, pity a poor ignorant little oik.

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The Royal Navy.

Tha RAF hardly count for anything, being just soldiers who've grown wings. The RAF are also a bit 'technical' and go against the British grain of wanting to be seen as incompetent at anything clever or important.
 

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Posted by Gill H (# 68) on :
 
Going back to the 'why do you hate tourists' thing:

As has been said, it's only the stereotype tourist we hate. And they exist in every culture. Stereotype Brits abroad are a hundred times worse (particularly the lager louts).

On our first visit to Paris we met an English family who complained loudly and frequently because everything wasn't written up in English everywhere. They didn't see why they should learn any French, and obviously thought the French were doing it just to spite them.

We referred to them forever after as 'Duggie and Jeanette' (from Shirley Valentine).

I've often had conversations with US visitors on the tube, because I use a tube line which goes to several of the big tourist hotspots. But then, coming from Wales, I'm used to hearing the life story and medical history of the stranger next to me on public transport.
 

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Posted by Jengie (# 273) on :
 
What no-one has told you here and is largely forgotten is the English have a working class tea, certainly in the North of England. It is normally made much the way Peppone describes Cold milk tea but is drunk hot. With the added ingredient that if it is not drunk immediately the tea is left on the heat to keep warm and tea and water added as required. The elements that have been used to maket it with include buckets and broom handles. It is always drunk very sweet and probably with lots of milk out of tin mugs. You are unlikely to be offered it anywhere today but it was still around twenty years ago. I a well run working class home there was always a pot on.

Today the tea-bag in the mug is the nearest equivalent.

Jengie
 

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Posted by Raspberry Rabbit (# 3080) on :
 
We're having a pub quiz in our church hall on Saturday night (we turn our little church hall into a pub (wine and beer only) rather than piling into the local pub. Sundry church members (the clever ones) are asked to compose some questions and send them in to our social convenor. Just think of the game Trivial Pursuit played in the presence of alcohol.....

Raspberry Rabbit
Penicuik, Midlothian
 

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Posted by footdoc (# 4389) on :
 
Im sorry, but someone has got to mention this...
THE BIRDIE SONG!

It really is too awful to describe... please please stay sober.
 

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Posted by PointlessAlbatross (# 4998) on :
 
Further to the car-washing comments. We don't have car washes with a plethora of people awaiting to polish and wax your car afterwards ( at least I have never seen one). We do have garages (another wonderful word that either means the covered lockable place where you store your car OR the petrol station OR the place where you get your car fixed) that have automatic car washes. I think they are a low grade version of the ones in the US, and with no additional personnel. Alternatively you can subscribe to the aforementioned carwashing ritual using half a dozen sponges (they must be bright yellow) and innumerable leather cloths for polishing and drying although this is not just a UK thing. It was commonplace in Germany as well. Note that the trend towards lavishing attention on your car does tend to fall off the further north you go as people learn that it will inevitably rain just after you have finished. The final option is to just leave the car as nature intended, although this invariably attracts the attentions of people who write in the dirt such classic comments as "Also available in white" especially on white cars.

I'm not as open as babybear it seems and always feel vaguely uncomfortable about starting a conversation with folk on public transport. Just look at UK mystery worshipper reports to see that it is a common problem even with the best will in the world. However I have adopted the approach that talking to apparent 'foreigners' is a safe bet. After all you have a whole gamut of questions to ask people about where they are from and what they are going to do. And you never know, you might even be able to give them some useful information and maybe help leave them with the impression that we aren't such a bad little country.

We do tend towards the one-answer-fits-all approach to questions about ourselves though. If anyone asks how we are you'll generally get an "alright", "not so bad", "could be better". People really don't do "I'm fantastic, thanks for asking", at least if someone does do that most people will try to sidle away very quickly. You can have just been in a hideous accident with a silage spreader and had one arm ripped off but you'll still say "could be better". I imagine most people do have a few friends that they'll actually tell the truth to, but you'll know if you are one of the selected few.
 

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Posted by Quidnunk (# 2901) on :
 

quote:

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I think the reason the British haven't taken to iced tea is that it needs to be sweetened and adding sugar/sweetener to tea is thought of as very wrong. Adjusting this notion for iced tea hasn't caught on.

Just an idea.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Ronist:
Most of my relatives are British by heritage so most of this is old hat, but I have never heard the word pants used like Baby Bear does.

quote:

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Kenwritez, they are talking a pile of pants.

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Truly it is a different language.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Moo:

quote:

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Originally posted by Ronist:
Most of my relatives are British by heritage so most of this is old hat, but I have never heard the word pants used like Baby Bear does.

quote:

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Kenwritez, they are talking a pile of pants.

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Truly it is a different language.

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The first thing I learned when I joined the ship was never say pants, always trousers.

Moo

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quote:

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Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:

quote:

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Originally posted by Moo:

quote:

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Originally posted by Ronist:
Most of my relatives are British by heritage so most of this is old hat, but I have never heard the word pants used like Baby Bear does.

quote:

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Kenwritez, they are talking a pile of pants.

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Truly it is a different language.

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The first thing I learned when I joined the ship was never say pants, always trousers.

Moo

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Quite right. "Pants" in UK english is short for "underpants".

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quote:

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Originally posted by Ferinjen:

And plimsolls are pumps

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I think you may find they're sandshoes but that may be a Scottish thing.
 

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Posted by Alarik the Goth (# 511) on :
 
Plimsolls are 'sandshoes' wheor they taalk proper, like.

GDS, Ah'm appalled. Yer Mam's a Tyke, and yer Da, why there's nee way Ah'd gan roond admittin' he's from Essex. Doon sooth indeed.

Both me folks are Sun'land born and bred (well me Mam's folks were from near Spennymoor).

And we allus said 'bog' for 'toilet', unless we meant 'netty' (Ah had a lad in me class who still had an ootside netty).
 

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Posted by kittykat (# 5839) on :
 
plimsolls are pumps, a dummy is a dit, an under stairs cupboard is a sbenj, the covered walkway between two houses in a terrace is a jennel and pants means that something is rubbish, as in 'kittykat is talking a load of pants'. Glad I could clear this up!
 

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Posted by dorcas (# 4775) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Oxymoron:
Tea should be made with extra strong tea bags (M&S do very good ones) and boil ing water, after about ten minutes (maybe more) you then add enough milk to make it cool enough to down in one, and enough more sugar than will happily dissolve. After a few of these the mug will turn a pleasant shade of brown and help infuse the brew with the correct flavour.

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Being a civil servant (public servant in US?) I am therefore an expert in tea, and can confirm that the pleasant shade of brown is essential - for reasons of hygiene I do wash my work mug occasionally, but something of the flavour is always lost
 

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Posted by GeordieDownSouth (# 4100) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Alarik the Goth:
<snip>

Both me folks are Sun'land born and bred (well me Mam's folks were from near Spennymoor).

<snip>

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I believe you just surrended your right to reply by that admission

And I spent the worst year of my life living in Spennymoor.
 

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Posted by GreyFace (# 4682) on :
 
I like your summary of the North-South divide, GDS. But what's wrong with Spennymoor? It's ideally located - you can reach civilisation by driving ten minutes in any direction.
 

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Posted by Alarik the Goth (# 511) on :
 
I've just looked at a map on the 'net and Spennymoor is a bit misleading - my Nana's birthplace was south-west of Bishop Auckland and Spennymoor's north-east of it.
 

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Posted by Eigon (# 4917) on :
 
Kittykat - we said "ginnel", with a hard "g" in Lancashire. Where does jennel come from? We also had the saying "he couldn't stop a pig in a ginnel" meaning someone who was bow-legged.
 

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Posted by Ferinjen (# 4719) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Alarik the Goth:
I've just looked at a map on the 'net and Spennymoor is a bit misleading - my Nana's birthplace was south-west of Bishop Auckland and Spennymoor's north-east of it.

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quote:

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Originally posted by GreyFace:
I like your summary of the North-South divide, GDS. But what's wrong with Spennymoor? It's ideally located - you can reach civilisation by driving ten minutes in any direction.

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I didn't have a car.
 

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Posted by Rex Mundi (# 7049) on :
 
One thing I've noticed from a few friends from the US is that those of them that have never gone further north than Watford have a very different view of the country from those that have ventured away from Old London Town (TM Disney).

It's certainly my own experience that drivers are more selfish down south, people are less likely to talk to each other on public transport, and the first question on a London pub quiz is "what are you lookin' at?" I know it's a gross generalisation, but I can only go on my own experience.

I have more than one friend from the US who has visited us here in Mancunia, taken in the Pennines, the lake district and been rather shocked that any of it existed - because if you read any Clancy, Watched US movies - the impression one often gets is that England is just London with some green bits around the edges.

The other thing that people visiting the country don't realise, is the real variety here - how accents vary over such a short distance. If you travel from Stockport northwards through Manchester to Oldham, in the distance of ten miles or so you will hear so many different accents.

Not sure what point I'm trying to make, the heat is making my head go funny
 

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Posted by Rex Mundi (# 7049) on :
 
Heck missed the 2 minute deadline.

Was going to add. I had a great friend at Uni from Colorado. After she'd spent a year with us all in Lancaster drinking Guinness, Theakstons and Irish Whiskey - watching football on the telly, and learning all the right swearwords - she went travelling around Europe.

Every letter and postcard she sent back to me usually had some dig or moan about all the annoying American tourists about the place.

One missive even described the weather in Vienna as being "a bit nesh". Our work was complete!
 

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Posted by ken (# 2460) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Kelly Alves:

quote:

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Originally posted by Jack the Lass:
Bede: only girls go to the "loo". You need to ask for "the gents".

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Seriously?

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quote:

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Eigon wrote: Kittykat - we said "ginnel", with a hard "g" in Lancashire. Where does jennel come from? We also had the saying "he couldn't stop a pig in a ginnel" meaning someone who was bow-legged.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Qlib:
We do herb teas in most places in Britain. Fruit, peppermint or camomile.

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quote:

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(Avoid 'caffs', as opposed to cafes, if you can tell the difference?) Have fun.

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quote:

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Originally posted by GeordieDownSouth:
I spent the worst year of my life living in Spennymoor.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ferinjen:
South West of Bishop takes you to Barnard Castle, doesn't it?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Moo:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ronist:
Most of my relatives are British by heritage so most of this is old hat, but I have never heard the word pants used like Baby Bear does.

quote:

---

Kenwritez, they are talking a pile of pants.

---

Truly it is a different language.

---

The first thing I learned when I joined the ship was never say pants, always trousers.

Moo

---

Quite right. "Pants" in UK english is short for "underpants".

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by RuthW:
Still wondering about the pub quiz thing. Do the pubs sponsor quizzes and give prizes, or is this an informal thing where some patron just stands up and says, "Right. Time for the quiz. We'll start with any easy one: how many of his wives did Henry VIII kill?"

---

A bit of both. But there are organised leagues. Also people who put on pub quizzess for a living.

Pubs are the locus of all indoor sports. Pubs have darts teams (our local has 2 teams taking part in 2 leagues), pool teams & so forth. People play dominoes in pubs. And even cards (for small stakes only )

Outdoor games too. Lots of pubs organise football or cricket matches. Usually with random numbers of participants and unfeasible quantities of beer.

Down in the real south-east of England - that is south of the Thames and east of the Solent - almost the last vestige of traditional folk culture is local ball-games like bat-and-trap (different rules in Kent and Sussex) or stoolball.
 

---

Posted by Alarik the Goth (# 511) on :
 
My mother's relatives were nearer West Auckland than Bishop A.* In a village called Evenwood, IIRC.

(*Incidentally, as a child, and before I'd seen it written down, I went for ages thinking the place was 'Bisha Borkland!!!
 

---

Posted by ken (# 2460) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Eigon:
we said "ginnel", with a hard "g" in Lancashire. Where does jennel come from?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by ken:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ferinjen:
South West of Bishop takes you to Barnard Castle, doesn't it?

---

I've never heard it called that before.

"Auckland", leaving off the episcopal part, yes. But not "Bishop". The place is called Auckland. Which Auckland? No, not the one in New Zealand - the one where the Bishop lives.

Simple really.

---

The denizens... sorry, residents of "Spenny" used to call it "Bish"
 

---

Posted by Schroedinger's cat (# 64) on :
 
Coming far too late to this discussion ...

"Loo" - is unisex. Toilet is what I would use in a restaurant, but loo is what I would use at a friends house. Bog would not be acceptable, IMO, except in a student house.

One important thing to remember is that, despite being very small, the UK has a very wide spread of culture. While there are huge differences between the North and the South, there can also be major differences between places 20 miles apart. It is generally wise to consider the UK to be as large as the states in terms of cultural differences.

The British are generally understated. If you come from a culture that is always very up front about things, you will find it very very hard. And these non-verbal signals vary from area to area.

As for Tea - it represents, I think, the reality that sitting down with a calming drink will usually help. And if not, life goes on. And if it doesn't, then it doesn't.
 

---

Posted by Rex Mundi (# 7049) on :
 
I think the British reserve, the stiff upper lip etc. doesn't really sit well with me as a Mancunian. People are straightforward and upfront here in my experience and don't have that reserve that seems to be stereotyped in so many "British" performances in American Books/Movies/TV Shows. Even the Simpson, an otherwise wonderfully observed show, can't seem to get Brits right - and continues with the reserved Londoner as representative of the nation.
 

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Posted by Lesley W (# 4445) on :
 
I'm far too late coming to this thread, but am wading through it with great pleasure.

Much earlier, Ronist said:

[QUOTE] We had been aprised of this strange ....[QUOTE]

This is the first time in years I have seen someone use the word apprised in correct context. It is lovely to see it! Thank you!

I even forgive you for mis-typing it .

Lesley
 

---

Posted by Campbellite (# 1202) on :
 
Question for our British cousins:

I have gathered from context that "posh" is Not A Good Thing™, but could someone tell me just what it means and WHY it is Not A Good Thing™?

Pub Quiz question: What was the name of the play Lincoln was watching when he was assassinated?
 

---

Posted by Qlib (# 43) on :
 
It's to do with our pernicious class system. When someone (George Mikes, I think) said, "An Englishman only has to open his mouth for another Englishman to despise him", he was referring as much, if not more, to class origins as to regional differences. Foreginers are exempt, which is another reason why we will talk to you. (But I agree with what's been said about people up North being friendlier in general.)
 

---

Posted by Chapelhead (# 1143) on :
 
I’m reminded of that ‘Not the Nine O’clock News’ sketch where two walkers are attracted to a country pub from which can be heard lots of merry talking, laughter and general jollity. As soon as they step over the threshold, however, the entire place falls deathly silent as every face, grim and foreboding, turns towards the strangers. The landlord, in the best northern accent Mel Smith could manage, glowered at the incomers and said…

quote:

---

If there’s one thing we don’t like round ‘ere, it’s unfriendly southerners.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Campbellite:
Question for our British cousins:

I have gathered from context that "posh" is Not A Good Thing™, but could someone tell me just what it means and WHY it is Not A Good Thing™?

---

1. Stuck up, nose-in-the-air, don't deign to notice lesser mortals (those with less money).
2. Public school educated, comes from one of the Home Counties, so has cut glass accent.
3. Moneyed, but not the very top bracket of money.

#1 type people are bad.

#2 and 3 type people can be bad, or can be thoroughly nice. It depends on character and stuff.

So posh isn't always bad.

Hope this helps

Sarkycow
 

---

Posted by Campbellite (# 1202) on :
 
I was under the impression that "posh" was a near equivalent to "highfalutin'", thinking too highly of oneself. Is that not too far off the mark? I was not aware that it was vulgar, but it certainly seems to be perjorative.

Any takers on the Lincoln question?

[ 07. June 2004, 17:52: Message edited by: Campbellite ]
 

---

Posted by Campbellite (# 1202) on :
 
Crossposted with Sarky.

Thanks. That helps.
 

---

Posted by RuthW (# 13) on :
 
Lincoln was watching Our American Cousin.
 

---

Posted by Amos (# 44) on :
 
Our American Cousin ?
 

---

Posted by Sarkycow (# 1012) on :
 


Posh can be pejorative, or vulgar, or approving, or a simple adjective. It all depends on the tone of voice, the speaker and listeners' social stara, and their thoughts and opinions.

So, if I described a house as 'posh', it could mean:

1. The house is in a rich area, and I don't like it.
2. The house is over decorated - the owners are showing off how much money they have.
3. The house is tastefully done - clearly the owners have money, but it's all nice stuff, and not screaming ££££ at you.
4. The house is in a rich as opposed to poor area.
   .
   .
   .
   .

Really, it's all about tone
 

---

Posted by Amos (# 44) on :
 
That wasn't a question, that was a cross-post.
 

---

Posted by ken (# 2460) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Qlib:
I agree with what's been said about people up North being friendlier in general.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Campbellite:
Question for our British cousins:

I have gathered from context that "posh" is Not A Good Thing™, but could someone tell me just what it means and WHY it is Not A Good Thing™?

---

Antisnobbery! In some circles there is a kind of unspoken convention that posh=bad, with similar characteristics to the pompous idea that common=bad, just inverted.

This was vaguely alluded to earlier in the thread, WRT tea. Try going into a caff, not a cafe, and asking for a cup of Earl Grey tea- you'll see what I mean.
 

---

Posted by Qlib (# 43) on :
 
Ken - Well, we're getting very subjective (and tangential)now, aren't we? I've heard the same thing said about Yorkshire, by a Yorkshire man. Conversely, I was brought up near Liverpool (but far enough away to have a 'posh' accent) and I always found it a very friendly place. Gender may play a role here. I've never had any problems in Hereford, for example, but male friends with Welsh accents have had some unpleasant experiences.
 

---

Posted by Custard123 (# 5402) on :
 
The whole chatting on trains thing seems to be very age dependent IMO.

I'm youngish, and I've never had a problem chatting to other young adults (18-30ish, dressed casually) on a train, but I think a lot of them would have been less willing to chat to someone older.

Nor do retired folks seem to have much problem chatting to anyone willing to engage them in converation.

That's what I've found anyway.

Custard
 

---

Posted by Schroedinger's cat (# 64) on :
 
Posh is usually pejorative - usually used in comparison. Describing someone/something as "posh" means "better than me/mine", in whatever sense of better is appropriate. But it carries with it the concept of "because they think they are better than us".

Northerners are not necessarily friendlier. It depends what you really mean by friendly - they show it in different ways.

Oh and Northerners in particular can be "blunt", but I still think they tend not to show the real depth of their feelings, unless you know how to read what they say, and how they say it.
 

---

Posted by cms (# 3818) on :
 
I don't know why you all think that Americans will understand anything up north - the two ladies who visited the coffee shop where my daughter works couldn't even cope with a midlands/Worcestershire accent. (Fortunately my daughter is southern born and bred.) And they had to be persuaded that British coffee is not always instant - sometimes it's made from real beans ground in the shop's own grinder.
 

---

Posted by Jengie (# 273) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by cms:
I don't know why you all think that Americans will understand anything up north - the two ladies who visited the coffee shop where my daughter works couldn't even cope with a midlands/Worcestershire accent. (Fortunately my daughter is southern born and bred.) And they had to be persuaded that British coffee is not always instant - sometimes it's made from real beans ground in the shop's own grinder.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by ken:
I'd say "gents" in a public place, "toilet" or just possibly "lavatory" in someone's house, "bog" with friends of my own age.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Kenwritez:
So if I'm in a pub or a cafe or restaurant in England, how do I order one of my favorite drinks: Iced tea (sugarless) with saccharine and extra lemon?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Kenwritez:
So if I'm in a pub or a cafe or restaurant in England, how do I order one of my favorite drinks: Iced tea (sugarless) with saccharine and extra lemon?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Kenwritez:
So if I'm in a pub or a cafe or restaurant in England, how do I order one of my favorite drinks: Iced tea (sugarless) with saccharine and extra lemon?

---

Why would you want that in England when you could get cider on tap perhaps (something you don't find everywhere you go in the States), or something else that they're actually going to have readily available there that you don't see every day here at home?
 

---

Posted by Amos (# 44) on :
 
Kenwritez--in the southern part of England you ask for a 'Vimto', as this beverage has been known for the better part of a century. In the North it's much simpler--just ask for a pint of Tetley's with ice. Even out there in California you must know that 'Tetleys' is a large Northern tea company.
 

---

Posted by Pânts (# 4487) on :
 
Exactly Ruth, dont people go abroad to see a different country and experience a different culture?
 

---

Posted by RuthW (# 13) on :
 
Tetley's exports to the US - you can get their stuff in the grocery stores.
 

---

Posted by Ariel (# 58) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Amos:
Kenwritez--in the southern part of England you ask for a 'Vimto', as this beverage has been known for the better part of a century.

---

Amos, you are evil.
 

---

Posted by The Bede's American Successor (# 5042) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Saviour Tortoise:
BTW - why saccharine? That stuff's bad for you! Why not nice, natural sucrose?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by RuthW:
Tetley's exports to the US - you can get their stuff in the grocery stores.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by The Bede's American Successor:

quote:

---

Originally posted by RuthW:
Tetley's exports to the US - you can get their stuff in the grocery stores.

---

The Tetley's sold in Canuckistani grocery stores tastes much better than the stuff (read: shit) sold in US stores. Of course, when I could still drink it, I prefered Canadian Red Rose tea for a "consumer" every-day product. And, yes, I used to buy really good stuff for special occasions.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by RuthW:
Why would you want that in England when you could get cider on tap perhaps (something you don't find everywhere you go in the States), or something else that they're actually going to have readily available there that you don't see every day here at home?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Kenwritez:
So if I'm in a pub or a cafe or restaurant in England, how do I order one of my favorite drinks: Iced tea (sugarless) with saccharine and extra lemon?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by The Bede's American Successor:
Taking notes from this thread, as there is a chance, still remote at this point--but the recruiter sounded upbeat--that I will be taking new employment that might require me to travel to London this summer.

---

We're on page 4 now, so I wonder - do you STILL think you want to come and work over here??
 

---

Posted by Corfe (# 633) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Kenwritez:
Cider on tap? Are we talking fermented or unfermented apple juice?

---

quote:

---

Secondly, I hate the taste of beer or whiskey, ISTM which the two main drinks of the UK (tea running a third?)

---

quote:

---

From tales I've heard, UK pubs don't understand the concept of adequate amounts of ice in a glass, and they probably wouldn't stock Diet Coke..

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Corfe:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Kenwritez:
Cider on tap? Are we talking fermented or unfermented apple juice?

---

Cider is fermented apples. Mostly, it's clear, golden, fizzy, over-chilled and manufactured in large processing plants. Alternatively, it can be very strong, cloudy, unchilled and almost flat. This is the traditional sort and sometimes called scrumpy.

---

Yeah, but it's only REAl scrumpy if there's a dead wasp floating in it
 

---

Posted by Amphibalus (# 5351) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Corfe:
Diet Coke is extremely widely available.

---

From which, may the good Lord deliver us.
 

---

Posted by The Bede's American Successor (# 5042) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by dorcas:

quote:

---

Originally posted by The Bede's American Successor:
Taking notes from this thread, as there is a chance, still remote at this point--but the recruiter sounded upbeat--that I will be taking new employment that might require me to travel to London this summer.

---

We're on page 4 now, so I wonder - do you STILL think you want to come and work over here??

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Real Ale Methodist:
What about the beer, one american visitor to my great embarrasment asked if we should return our pints (Timothy Taylors Landlord) due to their warmth and strange hoppy taste. Deary deary me.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by ken:
7) And then there are Tea Rooms. Tea Rooms are cafes to which one takes one's aunt.

---

Tea Rooms - like de Greys of Ludlow. They've just finished in the top five of the 'Best Cup of Tea in Britain' awards - and the winner came from Shropshire as well.

I was once in de Greys on a Sunday afternoon and was disappointed to find that they don't do fresh cream cakes on the Sabbath (some hygeine regulation or other). But the waitress did inform me that she could bring me 'a pleyte of fencies'. That sort of stuff is beyond price!
 

---

Posted by Alarik the Goth (# 511) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Saviour Tortoise:

---

I'm afraid you chain is being yanked. The Tetley's refered to by Amos is a rather exceptional Bitter brewed in God's Own Country, (or Yorkshire as it is sometimes known.) Exceptional when bought in a pub in Yorkshire, anyway. It does not travel well, IMHO, so when for sale in a pub outside of the environs of that fair county, and particularly when being despensed from one fo those nasty electric pumps, it should not be touched with a ten foot barge pole.

(BTW - My Great, Great, Great, Great Grandfather was Josiah Tetley, founder of said brewery.) [/QB][/QUOTE]

Flippin' eck! Old Jos. T. was your ancestor!
I agree that electrically-pumped Tetleys (esp. if chilled) is very dire. And even the hand-pulled stuff, as you say, doesn't travel well, and it needs a good cellarman to be 'looking after it'. It is quite good when/if you find a 'good pint' of the stuff (the Cardifgan Arms in Leeds used to do ok, as Karl LB will testify). But it isn't in the ale Premier League, as Timothy Taylor's or Black Sheep or Bateman's or Caledonian are.
 

---

Posted by Sparrow (# 2458) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by ken:
Add to the list of British cafes (always pronounced "caffy" in my childhood):

7) And then there are Tea Rooms. Tea Rooms are cafes to which one takes one's aunt.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Amanda B. Reckondwythe:
I'd be interesting in knowing what the Brits think of Pret a Manger.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Alarik the Goth:
But it isn't in the ale Premier League, as Timothy Taylor's or Black Sheep or Bateman's or Caledonian are.

---

Now why does that remind me of Saturday?

Oh yes, because I was at the Keswick Beer Festival.
 

---

Posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider (# 76) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Alarik the Goth:

I agree that electrically-pumped Tetleys (esp. if chilled) is very dire. And even the hand-pulled stuff, as you say, doesn't travel well, and it needs a good cellarman to be 'looking after it'. It is quite good when/if you find a 'good pint' of the stuff (the Cardifgan Arms in Leeds used to do ok, as Karl LB will testify). But it isn't in the ale Premier League, as Timothy Taylor's or Black Sheep or Bateman's or Caledonian are.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Corfe:

quote:

---

From tales I've heard, UK pubs don't understand the concept of adequate amounts of ice in a glass, and they probably wouldn't stock Diet Coke.

---

My experience is that in US-owned businesses here (eg McD) they craftily fill the container with ice first and you have to stop them or you only get the small amount of drink that fills the gaps. Usually in pubs they will stick in 2-4 ice cubes in a mixed drink. You could have as much as you like as they're saving on the volume of whatever you top it up with. Diet Coke is extremely widely available.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
What really irritates us ( me at least ), I believe, is where our grewat national treasures are used as backdrops to pictures of you. "This is me in Stratford-upon-Avon. This is my by tower bridge. This is my head impaled on a railing".

This applies to all tourists, not just Americans. I was in Israel with an English couple like that. "This is my grinning, ugly mug at Yad Vashem. Ah, and this would be my large intestine". It is about appreciating what is there, and not thinking that your butt-face actually adds anything to it. I know this viewpoint is not universally held.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
Another oddity in terms of language - lemonade. In the UK, this is a fizzy lemon flavoured drink. I still have a problem trying to get my head round being asked what flavour of lemonade I want, as some other countries use it as a general term for fizzy drink. So cherry flavoured fizzy water is cherryade, not cherry lemonade.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ormo:
In some parts of NI (and prob scotland and maybe north england) people will call a fizzy drink a mineral... Never really got this except it must be in some way linked to mineral water.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Kenwritez:
[Yes, but almost every restaurant and fast food joint over here will offer you free refills of soda pop, so if you're sitting down to a meal at such a place, you can have as much as you want.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Gracious rebel:
So let me ask something - when presented with this 'unlimited' beverage idea in a place like McDs, the temptation is for my family to just order one drink between us, and share it around a number of people, refilling as necessary. Would Americans ever do this or is it just 'not done'?

---

It is just 'not done'. Each person would get a separate cup.
The foolish bit is that people will pay extra for the "Supersize" cup, fill it once, and not be able to drink it all.
I prefer to get the smallest size, at a far smaller price, and refill it several times.
 

---

Posted by Gracious rebel (# 3523) on :
 
So people still pay more for a larger cup, even though everyone can get free refills? Crazy!

(edited to add....) but then I suppose getting refills would involve getting up off your butt and walking across the restaurant, too much effort obviously?!

[ 08. June 2004, 16:14: Message edited by: Gracious rebel ]
 

---

Posted by Saviour Tortoise (# 4660) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Alarik the Goth:
Flippin' eck! Old Jos. T. was your ancestor!

---

quote:

---

But it isn't in the ale Premier League, as Timothy Taylor's or Black Sheep or Bateman's or Caledonian are.

---

Black Sheep is simply fantastic. Am I right in thinking that the Theakston family (owners of the Masham brewery were said Ale is produced) have bought Theakston back? I heard a rumour recently.

Tim Taylor's suffers from the same problems as Tetley's in many places though (certain down here) - the nasty, chilled, electric pumps. Why do people do that?!
 

---

Posted by Saviour Tortoise (# 4660) on :
 
Sorry to double post - just remembered a story about the wife of a famous UK based Cathedral Organist:

Said Organist was on sabbatical running the music at a church in the US. His wife was singing with the adult choir. On finding she needed to make a correction to her score, but being unable to due the state of the eraser on the end of her pencil, she said the following.

"Blow me, this pencil's got a manky rubber on the end of it."

Apparently many of the rest of the choir found it difficult to sing for a while.
 

---

Posted by Tabby Cat (# 4561) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Amanda B. Reckondwythe:
I'd be interested in knowing what the Brits think of Pret a Manger.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ormo:
In some parts of NI (and prob scotland and maybe north england) people will call a fizzy drink a mineral... Never really got this except it must be in some way linked to mineral water.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Gracious rebel:
So people still pay more for a larger cup, even though everyone can get free refills? Crazy!

(edited to add....) but then I suppose getting refills would involve getting up off your butt and walking across the restaurant, too much effort obviously?!

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Rat:
My dad swears blind that when he grew up in Belfast the red raspberry sauce you could get the ice cream man to squidge on your ice cream cone was referred to as vanilla. He says when he first came over here and asked for vanilla on his ice cream people laughed hysterically and he couldn't understand why. Is that something you recognise?

---

Nope! Theres a good chance, though, that the particular ice cream man that would come around to his area mis-named his raspberry sauce that, possibly not knowing what vanilla actually was...
Or it is possible that if you asked for a vanilla ice cream it came standard with raspberry sauce, and as a young innocent child your father logically assumed that as the ice cream was, apparently, plain the naming must be after the sauce on that, apparently plain, ice cream. And as it seemed to work he stuck with it... Or perhaps another kid did that and then told your father that it was called vanilla...

I bet thats how a lot of these kinda things start... Logical, but misinformed, kids learning by trial and error...
 

---

Posted by Jengie (# 273) on :
 
Think we are about down to eight on the lists of grades of cafes so :

8) a coffee house. Main purpose is to roast and sell decent coffee (and sometimes tea) but in order to stay in business run a cafe business as well. You know you are in a coffee house when you ask for coffee they ask whether you want it "mild, medium, strong or decaff". They sometimes even offer as wide a range of tea. Cooked meals tend to be traditional English, but well done, and baking home made. You eat surrounded by the delicious smell of proper coffee. The one in Sheffield is very reasonably priced with coffee for £1.00 for a huge cup.

9) Tourist Tea Shop - found in touristy areas, normally packed with serve tea, homebaking, and quite often cooked on the premises hot meals in the middle of the day. Normally have eccentric English features for decor. Price ranges hugely depending on how popular the tourist spot is rather than the quality of the food. Are like to sell local specialities as well.

At least two other sorts to go!

Jengie
 

---

Posted by Qlib (# 43) on :
 
And another weird – possibly the weirdest – thing about the British is that you ask them a perfectly straightforward question about themselves and you end up with learned disquisitions on (to name a few)… the best way of making tea (compulsory), North v South, the class system, types of refreshment facilities (including of course what makes for a good pub), ice cream sauces, the class system, obscure linguistic derivation and U v Non-U arguments about certain words, etc., etc. (Apologies to anyone offended by being left out…. or put in ).

Just about the only thing we haven’t had so far are the old arguments about the relative merits of football (soccer), rugby and cricket and the people who play them. And the other thing is that we like weirdness. Eccentricity is a prized British characteristic.
 

---

Posted by RuthW (# 13) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Qlib:
the best way of making tea (compulsory)

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Qlib:


Just about the only thing we haven’t had so far are the old arguments about the relative merits of football (soccer), rugby and cricket and the people who play them.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Moo:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ormo:
In some parts of NI (and prob scotland and maybe north england) people will call a fizzy drink a mineral... Never really got this except it must be in some way linked to mineral water.

---

In New England they call it a tonic. Moo

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Kenwritez:
From tales I've heard, UK pubs don't understand the concept of adequate amounts of ice in a glass, and they probably wouldn't stock Diet Coke, so iced tea, coffee or water are what I imagine my last resorts to be.

---

quote:

---

"You have two sides, one out in the field and one in. Each man that's in goes out, and when he's out he comes in and the next man goes in until he is out. When they are all out, the side that's been out comes in and the side that's been in goes out and tries to get those coming in, out. Sometimes you get men still in and not out.

"When a man goes out to go in, the men who are out try to get him out, and when he is out, he goes in and the next man in goes out and goes in. There are two men called umpires who are all out all the time, and they decide when the men who are in are out. When both sides have been in and all the men have been out, and both sides have been out twice after all the men have been in, including those who are not out, that is the end of the game."

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ship's Meerkat:
Of tourists and photography...
Half of the year, I live in Cambridge, where such idiocy is rife. The rest of the year I spend in Walsall. For some reason, there's not so much of a problem with it there...

---

It seems odd really, as most photographs taken in Walsall would actually be improved by having an inanely grinning, fat, ugly face added
 

---

Posted by Ship's Meerkat (# 5213) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ship's Meerkat:
Of tourists and photography...
Half of the year, I live in Cambridge, where such idiocy is rife. The rest of the year I spend in Walsall. For some reason, there's not so much of a problem with it there...

---

It seems odd really, as most photographs taken in Walsall would actually be improved by having an inanely grinning, fat, ugly face added

---

Precisely! If anyone wants to take a photograph of something in Walsall and needs an inanely grinning ugly face adding, just let me know.


 

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Posted by Crotalus (# 4959) on :
 
Ah, Walsall. Like the old Soviet Union, but with McDonalds.
 

---

Posted by Papa_Smurf (# 1654) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Saviour Tortoise:

I always liked the rugby / football comparison which goes "rubgy is a hooligan's game played by gentleman and football is a gentleman's game played by hooligans."

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
Doughnuts in the UK are generally filled with jam, and don't have a hole in the middle.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Crotalus:
Ah, Walsall. Like the old Soviet Union, but with McDonalds.

---

It does seem do have grown a reasonable art gallery since I was growing up around there.

Walsall Art Gallery

I remember being enthralled by the Walsall Illuminations when I was little. Went back as an adult once. My God they're terrible.
 

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Posted by Margaret (# 283) on :
 
Walsall Illuminations are a form of folk art, as I once tried to explain to a bewildered Dutch couple...
 

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Posted by Crotalus (# 4959) on :
 
I'm told the new Walsall art gallery is good, but I've never been able to get in. It's always closed on Mondays. Just like the old Soviet Union.
 

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Posted by Qlib (# 43) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Papa_Smurf:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Saviour Tortoise:
I always liked the rugby / football comparison which goes "rubgy is a hooligan's game played by gentleman and football is a gentleman's game played by hooligans."

---

I always thought the comparison was
Rugby : Played by Hooligans, watched by Gentlemen
Football : Played by Gentlemen, watched by Hooligans

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Qlib:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Papa_Smurf:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Saviour Tortoise:
I always liked the rugby / football comparison which goes "rubgy is a hooligan's game played by gentleman and football is a gentleman's game played by hooligans."

---

I always thought the comparison was
Rugby : Played by Hooligans, watched by Gentlemen
Football : Played by Gentlemen, watched by Hooligans

---

I think Saviour Tortoise has the original version correct. As this is Heaven, I think I'll abstain from commenting on the accuracy of the observation.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Papio.:
But you have to admit that Yorkshire folk have a special knack with understatement and lack of enthusiasm?

---

I do??

Are you sure it was Yorkshire you went to?

[ 09. June 2004, 17:47: Message edited by: starrina ]
 

---

Posted by Gremlin (# 129) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Crotalus:
I'm told the new Walsall art gallery is good, but I've never been able to get in. It's always closed on Mondays. Just like the old Soviet Union.

---

Ah! So that's why my Dad always had Mondays off from work, and worked on Saturdays instead

Mind you, I didn't notice Mondays as being any more 'closed' than any other day in Moscow, Leningrad or Tbilisi when I visited them in August 1986.

Gremlin

p.s. the real reason was that he worked in a department store that was open on Saturdays (for obvious reasons) and shut on Mondays (so that the staff would have a two-day weekend, as was common at the time). Of course, they've long since abandoned 'closed on Mondays' in favour of seven day trading like everyone else, although my Dad did stick to Mondays as his day off for many years after the change.
 

---

Posted by The Bede's American Successor (# 5042) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Saviour Tortoise:
I'm afraid you chain is being yanked. The Tetley's refered to by Amos is a rather exceptional Bitter brewed in God's Own Country, (or Yorkshire as it is sometimes known.) Exceptional when bought in a pub in Yorkshire, anyway. It does not travel well, IMHO, so when for sale in a pub outside of the environs of that fair county, and particularly when being despensed from one fo those nasty electric pumps, it should not be touched with a ten foot barge pole.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by The Bede's American Successor:

Then again, this establishment is in Canada. After all, if Jesus had been Canadian, the elements at communion would have been poutine and beer.

---

But I don't eat poutine daily.... and I don't think every Canadian eats poutine daily either. I think the Canadian Jesus would choose bread over poutine too - unless the last supper were to take place in a restaurant in a Quebec small town.
 

---

Posted by Ariel (# 58) on :
 
I had to look this one up.

quote:

---

Poutine is a French-Canadian concoction comprised of french fries, gravy, and cheese curds.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ariel:
I had to look this one up.

quote:

---

Poutine is a French-Canadian concoction comprised of french fries, gravy, and cheese curds.

---

Is this true??

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by ken:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ferinjen:
South West of Bishop takes you to Barnard Castle, doesn't it?

---

I've never heard it called that before.

"Auckland", leaving off the episcopal part, yes. But not "Bishop". The place is called Auckland. Which Auckland? No, not the one in New Zealand - the one where the Bishop lives.

Simple really.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ariel:
I had to look this one up.

quote:

---

Poutine is a French-Canadian concoction comprised of french fries, gravy, and cheese curds.

---

Is this true??

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by ken:
"Auckland", leaving off the episcopal part, yes. But not "Bishop". The place is called Auckland. Which Auckland? No, not the one in New Zealand - the one where the Bishop lives.

Simple really.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ariel:
I had to look this one up.

quote:

---

Poutine is a French-Canadian concoction comprised of french fries, gravy, and cheese curds.

---

Is this true??

---

Sounds like a Canadian equivalent of the 'suicide sarnie' - a 1,000-calorie deep-fried chocolate sandwich, popular in Scotland, made of two slices of white bread enclosing a Cadbury Dairy Milk Bar, all covered with a thick batter and then deep fried.

With a deep-fried Mars bar for pudding.
 

---

Posted by Glass Angel (# 5779) on :
 
I think it's often used to indicate that something isn't simple at all. Well, that's how I'd use it anyway.

[Sorry, cross posted, I was replying to RuthW]

[ 10. June 2004, 14:52: Message edited by: Glass Angel ]
 

---

Posted by Ormo (# 4805) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Amphibalus:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ariel:
I had to look this one up.

quote:

---

Poutine is a French-Canadian concoction comprised of french fries, gravy, and cheese curds.

---

Is this true??

---

Sounds like a Canadian equivalent of the 'suicide sarnie' - a 1,000-calorie deep-fried chocolate sandwich, popular in Scotland, made of two slices of white bread enclosing a Cadbury Dairy Milk Bar, all covered with a thick batter and then deep fried.

With a deep-fried Mars bar for pudding.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by RuthW:
I've seen this phrase and its like - "simple really" or "all very simple" on these boards a kazillion times, almost always in posts by Brits, and I haven't been able to figure out just how condescending it's supposed to sound. Does the level of condescension depend on context? Is it only jokingly condescending?

---

Ruth,
The phrase is usually appended to the explanation of some relatively obscure fact which is self-evident to those privileged to be 'in the know', but totally incomprehensible to anyone not wearing an anorak. It is a minor weapon in the armoury of The British Sense of Humour™.

Simple, really.
 

---

Posted by Amphibalus (# 5351) on :
 
Whoops. So many cross posts here it feels like Clapham Junction in the rush hour.
 

---

Posted by Rat (# 3373) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Glass Angel:
I think it's often used to indicate that something isn't simple at all. Well, that's how I'd use it anyway.

---

Yes, it is sarcastic and slightly self-deprecatory, and implies the issue is actually very complicated indeed.

How interesting that it sounds patronising to US ears. No wonder all my American friends hate me
 

---

Posted by Schroedinger's cat (# 64) on :
 
"Simple really" is not, I don't think, intended as condescending, so it is interesting, as Rat has said, that it sounds so.

I can see that I might use it in the context, say, of explaining to someone how to get from A to B on the tube. It would carry the implication that the task was quite possible, as long as you follow the instructions to the letter, and nothing untoward happens.

There is the sense that this is perfectly clear and obvious ( and most importantly unambiguous ) when you are a local, but utterly illogical if you are not. So there is an acceptance of the apparent obtuseness inherent in the issue under discussion. ( and if that sentence doesn't belong in Purgatory, I don't know what does ).

Amphibalous - suicide sarnie - SEND ME A DOZEN! They sound fantastic.

[ 10. June 2004, 15:37: Message edited by: Schroedinger's cat ]
 

---

Posted by Ferinjen (# 4719) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by adsarf:

quote:

---

Originally posted by ken:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ferinjen:
South West of Bishop takes you to Barnard Castle, doesn't it?

---

I've never heard it called that before.

"Auckland", leaving off the episcopal part, yes. But not "Bishop". The place is called Auckland. Which Auckland? No, not the one in New Zealand - the one where the Bishop lives.

Simple really.

---

My mother is from Bishop and calls it Bishop. No-one would confuse it with Auckland in New Zealand, but St Helen Auckland is just down the road from Bishop Auckland, hence 'Bishop' rather than 'Auckland'.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
...suicide sarnie - SEND ME A DOZEN! They sound fantastic.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ariel:
I had to look this one up.

quote:

---

Poutine is a French-Canadian concoction comprised of french fries, gravy, and cheese curds.

---

Is this true??

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Amphibalus:
The advice to anyone intending to indulge in the aforementioned treat is that you telephone the emergency services before you go into the chippie - then at least you know that, as you have your heart attack, the ambulance is already on its way.

---

quote:

---

chip·py or chip·pie n. pl. chip·pies

1. A chipping sparrow.
2. Slang. A woman prostitute.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by The Bede's American Successor:
Upon looking up the definition of "chippie," I see it means...

---

quote:

---

chip shop. noun {C} (INFORMAL chippy) UK. a shop that sells fried fish, potatoes and other foods, which you take away to eat.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ariel:

quote:

---

chip shop. noun {C} (INFORMAL chippy) UK. a shop that sells fried fish, potatoes and other foods, which you take away to eat.

---

Such as pickled onions and eggs, saveloys, baked beans and battered sausages. With or without curry sauce.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Amphibalus:
And then there's the meat pies (never specifying what meat)

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ariel:
Such as pickled onions and eggs, saveloys, baked beans and battered sausages. With or without curry sauce.

---

and to pick up on the regional variations theme again, mushy peas and gravy (both available, nay fundamental, to any chip shop menu in certain parts )

smatt
 

---

Posted by Qlib (# 43) on :
 
'Chippy' is as Ariel explained. 'Chippie' in UK English is usually a carpenter. So.... Oh no, as this is Heaven, I'd better not.
 

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Posted by Gracious rebel (# 3523) on :
 
Yes, to properly understand what it means to be British, you really ought to know about Fish & Chip shops.

These are prolific big time in Britain. Like there will be one in most small shopping parades in the suburbs (a shopping parade is a row of shops, without dedicated parling facilities, along a street that is otherwise residential - do you get those in the states or is it all malls?)
So most people who live in British towns and cities will be within walking distance of a chippy. They are the original British fast food joint, although they have been around for longer than we've adopted the name 'fast food' from accross the pond. And typically they do not have a seating area, so it is 'take away' only.

The meals used to be wrapped in newspaper, but nowadays that is forbidden by law: they use white kitchen paper instead, with greaseproof paper bags inside to hold the individual items.

You can order your food 'wrapped' or 'open' - the latter means it is ready to eat with the fingers (or with little wooden chip forks - although these are more common at the seaside where the chips are more likely to be served on a polystyrene dish) as soon as you wander outside the shop. 'Wrapped' is for taking home, unwrapping and serving on plates.

During my childhood we always had fish and chips from such an establishment on Friday lunchtimes. In fact the fish (cod fried in batter) was the only type of fish I knew, and remember remarking that I quite liked the brown crispy outside of fish, but wasn't so keen on the white fleshy inside!!

Menu would be various types of fried fish ie cod, haddock, plaice, rock eel (this is down south - up north you just get anonymous 'fish'!), sausages in batter, fishcakes (fish flakes mixed with mashed potato and seasoning, covered in breadcrumbs and deep fried), various pies eg chicken, steak and kidney, all served with copious portions of chips (french fries to the americans, but chips from chippies tend to be much soggier).

Nowadays you are also likely to be able to get burgers, spring rolls and other slightly more 'cosmopolitan' dishes also.

[ 10. June 2004, 20:54: Message edited by: Gracious rebel ]
 

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Posted by dorcas (# 4775) on :
 
Getting back to the linguistic differences between the US and the UK, what about these little things?

..............

In the UK, one of these little dots at the end of a sentence is called, very logically, a "full stop" - because you've come to a complete stop. The end. Finished.

Over the water, however, they call this little dot a "period" - much to the confusion and embarassment of the British to whom it means - well, what DO they call "that time of the month" in the States?
 

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Posted by Jonah the Whale. (# 1244) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sir George Grey, back on page 2.:
One characteristic of British people that friends of mine have often complained to me about is that they won't say what they mean. Implication is an important part of conversation; it's impolite to give anything straight.

---

quote:

---

It is well known that the British do not always say what they really mean. So, with the growing international nature of business, the definitions below may help people from other nations understand their British counterparts better.


What They Say...What They Mean

I hear what you say...I disagree and do not wish to discuss it any further
With the greatest respect...I think you are a fool
Not bad...Good or very good
Quite good...A bit disappointing
Perhaps you would like to think about…./it would be nice if…....This is an order. Do it or be prepared to justify yourself
Oh, by the way/Incidentally...This is the primary purpose of our discussion
Very interesting...I don’t agree/I don’t believe you
Could we consider the options...I don’t like your idea
I’ll bear it in mind...I will do nothing about it
Perhaps you could give that some more thought...It is a bad idea. Don’t do it
I’m sure it is my fault...It is your fault
That is an original point of view/brave option to consider...You must be crazy
You must come for dinner sometime...Not an invitation, just being polite
Not entirely helpful...Completely useless

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by dorcas:

In the UK, one of these little dots at the end of a sentence is called, very logically, a "full stop" - because you've come to a complete stop. The end. Finished.

Over the water, however, they call this little dot a "period" - much to the confusion and embarassment of the British to whom it means - well, what DO they call "that time of the month" in the States?

---

Regretfully, Americans (and Canadians too!) call "that time of the month" "period" too.

Or you can use the m-word... but it's too mouthful.

[ 10. June 2004, 23:32: Message edited by: AngelaSo ]
 

---

Posted by Anselmina (# 3032) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Firenze:
Lyda Rose

If it's any consolation, we think of Dubya as a cute hoor

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by AngelaSo:
Regretfully, Americans (and Canadians too!) call "that time of the month" "period" too.

Or you can use the m-word... but it's too mouthful.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Campbellite:

quote:

---

Originally posted by AngelaSo:
Regretfully, Americans (and Canadians too!) call "that time of the month" "period" too.

Or you can use the m-word... but it's too mouthful.

---

What? "Menses" is too big a word?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Anselmina:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Firenze:
Lyda Rose

If it's any consolation, we think of Dubya as a cute hoor

---

I couldn't let this pass. 'Hoor' is the Belfast dialect for 'whore' as in 'Ye wee hoor, ye! Ye've been out wi' tha' eejit boyfriend o' yurs til 4 in the mornin'. Don't think I don't know what ye've been up tae. Ya dirty wee hoor!'

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Anselmina:

Also, in Northern Ireland doughnuts with holes in the middle are 'gravy rings' (why?).

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Lady R of Ashwood:
'How interesting' is also a term of derision, Rat.

---

I agree it is in your examples, especially when accompanied by an expressionless voice and a change of subject. But 'how interesting that yadda yadda yadda' is OK in my book since it implies you really are interested and want to carry on the conversation.

Goodness me, at this rate I'm not going to be able to say anything at all for fear of inadvertantly deriding someone. Some people, of course, might consider this a consummation devoutly to be wished
 

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Posted by Rat (# 3373) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:

Chippy - spelt either way - is the place for fish and chips. If you visit our country, you must try one. Unless you are visiting Anselmina, don't ask for a chip

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
One thing that is important to understnad about the British ( or at least the English ) is that a foreigner can be someone who comes from 10 miles away. When I was in Norwich, I remember a couple who had lived there for 40 years saying that they were starting to be accepted into the area. Another generation or two and they would be considered a part of the city.

---

quote:

---

Beloved, though a stranger among us.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Lady R of Ashwood:
'How interesting' is also a term of derision, Rat.

---

But not in USA. And boy did I find this out, when I went over there. I met various American friends of my hostess, who all asked what I'd done and seen and stuff. So I would tell them, talking about the differences, and what I thought of malls and flying and various different things. And they would respond: "How interesting." My hostess dragged me away from the first one, to explain that they really did mean that, before I retorted "Well you fucking asked."

Apparently when Americans say "How interesting" they really do mean that what you are talking about is... well, interesting. They want you to carry on talking. And yet, to me, it came across as a slap in the face putdown!

Ask RuthW

quote:

---

What They Say...What They Mean

Perhaps you would like to think about…/it would be nice if…....This is an order. Do it or be prepared to justify yourself

---

Ooops. I say this, and assume that it translates across. Guess it doesn't, and people think I actually mean it would be nice if they considered something, but that they don't necessarily have to do it?

Sarkycow
 

---

Posted by Jengie (# 273) on :
 
I should have put this in earlier.

There is a certain kind of northerner who prides himself on calling a spade "a spade", but does not realise that in order to call a spade "a spade" you do not have to call it "a bloody shovel".

Jengie
 

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Posted by Gremlin (# 129) on :
 
There is yet another use of the word 'chippy' that noone else has mentioned: a chippy is a carpenter (as in chips of wood).

As for a 'chipper' ... nah, that's just some southern softie talk.

Gremlin
 

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Posted by The Undiscovered Country (# 4811) on :
 
When I started this thread I didn't realise it would attract quite so many posts. 302 in 1 week! Is this a record? No doubt someone out there knows!
 

---

Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jengie:
I should have put this in earlier.

There is a certain kind of northerner who prides himself on calling a spade "a spade", but does not realise that in order to call a spade "a spade" you do not have to call it "a bloody shovel".

Jengie

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sarkycow:
I met various American friends of my hostess, who all asked what I'd done and seen and stuff. So I would tell them, talking about the differences, and what I thought of malls and flying and various different things. And they would respond: "How interesting." My hostess dragged me away from the first one, to explain that they really did mean that, before I retorted "Well you fucking asked."

Apparently when Americans say "How interesting" they really do mean that what you are talking about is... well, interesting. They want you to carry on talking. And yet, to me, it came across as a slap in the face putdown!

Ask RuthW

---

The thing is, if you had just gone with the usual British assumption that Americans don't do irony, you'd have been fine.
 

---

Posted by Chapelhead (# 1143) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Gremlin:
As for a 'chipper' ... nah, that's just some southern softie talk.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sioni Sais:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jengie:
I should have put this in earlier.

There is a certain kind of northerner who prides himself on calling a spade "a spade", but does not realise that in order to call a spade "a spade" you do not have to call it "a bloody shovel".

Jengie

---

And there are plenty who do not know the difference between a spade and a shovel, whatever the condition of the shovel.

Besides as a Lancashire lad we do not go in for "blunt speaking". If we are ever rude we do so deliberately and never to anyone below the rank of colonel. Those that indulge in "blunt speaking" are attempting to excuse their inability to avoid rudeness at any time, in any circumstances and to anyone whatsoever. Oddly enough, they are so often from Yorkshire. It wasn't the only reason for the Wars of the Roses but it'll do.

We from the western side of the Pennines major in the higher arts such as sarcasm, irony, micky taking and black humour. Oh, and we can't shut up and are a bit daft too.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by The Undiscovered Country:
When I started this thread I didn't realise it would attract quite so many posts. 302 in 1 week! Is this a record? No doubt someone out there knows!

---

I don't know what the record might be, but there have been threads in Hell that have managed pages per day. Especially once Erin gets into her stride!

Gremlin
 

---

Posted by Coot (Such a nice boy) (# 220) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Chapelhead:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Gremlin:
As for a 'chipper' ... nah, that's just some southern softie talk.

---

I don't think so, Southerners say chippy.

'Chipper' is Strine for 'good', isn't it? [/QB]

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
We may have some fun ( Sending you to Stratford E15 to see Shakespeare birthplace, for example ),

---

quote:

---

And frenssh she spak ful faire and fetisly, After the scole of stratford atte bowe,
For frenssh of parys was to hire unknowe.

---

Not Shakespeare's (Elizbethan upstart that he is...)

Still, at least I now have an encyclopaedic knowledge of how to get from Stratford, East London, to Stratford, Darkest Warwickshire, via public transport.

Deborah
 

---

Posted by Ham'n'Eggs (# 629) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
Those that indulge in "blunt speaking" are attempting to excuse their inability to avoid rudeness at any time, in any circumstances and to anyone whatsoever. Oddly enough, they are so often from Yorkshire. It wasn't the only reason for the Wars of the Roses but it'll do.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Coot (such a nice boy)
...straightlaced governess doing time in the outback educating the squattocracy's brats...

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Kenwritez:

quote:

---

Originally posted by LydaRose:
Cute is a massively over-used Americanism, at least in the sense you speak of. Any person of any age and types of looks up to and including professional wrestlers can be cute; anything slightly amusing is cute; any thing -cars, houses, TV shows, national monuments- can be cute. Arrgh!!!

---

Isn't she cute when she rants?!

---

quote:

---

Cute? Little puppies are cute. I want to be exotic and mysterious!

---

 

---

Posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider (# 76) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sarkycow:

quote:

---

What They Say...What They Mean

Perhaps you would like to think about…/it would be nice if…....This is an order. Do it or be prepared to justify yourself

---

Ooops. I say this, and assume that it translates across. Guess it doesn't, and people think I actually mean it would be nice if they considered something, but that they don't necessarily have to do it?

Sarkycow

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
If you want an insight into the English ( particularly ), you might want to watch an episode of Top Gear ( TV programme about cars ). In particularly, Jeremy Clarkson.

He is completely un-PC, in particularly, he will be rude to any country making cars. If he were a shipmate, he would last seconds before he so offended some country or other that he was banned.

And yet he is funny, and some of this humour is because we are laughing at ourselves. I wouldn't say that you have to enjoy Top Gear, or even Jeremy, to be English, but an appreciation of why he is funny wil help, I think, to appreciate the English way and approach. Even if you also hate him and his arrogant, opinionated ways.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Young fogey:
Like Simon Cowell?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:

He is completely un-PC, in particularly, he will be rude to any country making cars. If he were a shipmate, he would last seconds before he so offended some country or other that he was banned.

---

The irony is that he is really something of a europhile, liking France in particular.

Top Gear these days is pretty much an advert for British laddishness (not necessarily a purely male pursuit) and is as funny as it is informative.

To return to the subject of the Chippy, someone mentioned earlier that it's just fish up north. My experience of Stockport/Manchester/Lancashire is that we usually have a choice of cod, haddock or plaice.

I'm always amused by the variety of pies, there will be a pork pie, steak and kidney etc. And then the wonderful mysterious botulism russian-roulette of the Meat Pie. It's a northern version of Japan's Blow Fish and the lovely greasy little rat's coffin will leave you feeling wonderfully full or in urgent need of the bog. Clearly a food for those that like to live on the edge.

Of course equally important to British quisine is the curry. Essentially an Anglo/Indian menu that took Asian cooking and turned it into an entire branch of food designed for the English palate. One tends to find curry houses being a wonderful place for a romantic meal until last orders, then the drunks come in.

I've reached the age now where I go to the local curry house for a romantic meal more than I do for a drunken game of popadom frisbee. In my youth I followed the male tradition of 10 pints of bitter followed by the hottest curry on the menu, as I've got older I go for the one with the most subtle blend of spices. I still order lager with it though, unless with the girlfriend.

[ 14. June 2004, 18:29: Message edited by: Rex Mundi ]
 

---

Posted by Schroedinger's cat (# 64) on :
 
Rex Mundi - yes, you are spot on with Top Gear. I recommend it because I think the humour is very British. Last night, for example, he ( and his mates ) was being very rude about American cars ( they don't do corners, they don't understand luxury ), and I can see that any Americans watching could have been very offended. But he was, I think, close to right, in pointing out what was expected by the British in a car. His way is to be rude, but his understanding of "Britishness", I think, much better than appears from his brusque manner.

And Simon Cowell is just unpleasantly rude.

Northern chippys have traditionally ( IME ) done Cod or Plaice as the options for fish, and sausages in batter and without, and pies. And chips. This is from the Midlands where I grew up, and Wales where we often took our holidays. These days I would usually expect them to have a vegetarian offering, and a few other variants on the basic.

They can also be very variable. Our local one used to do really nice stuff, but it changed hands and now is awful. Price is not always an indication of quality.
 

---

Posted by Rex Mundi (# 7049) on :
 
In my experience of local chippies the Chinese ones have been better, I think this is due to chinese food having a lot of frying with higher temperature oil. So the chips are very nicely cooked without being soggy, whereas a few "English" local chippies tend to make rather a soggy chip at times. Thankfully the local place, where one would often see the chips tipped from a dirty bucket into the fryer, has been taken over by a Chinese family the quality of the food has improved somewhat.

Not that I partake. I recently managed to work through trying all the items on the menu (in successive visits I hasten to add) of my favourite local curry emporium. Now sans girlfriend I won't be turning up their every Friday evening after work and can now look to shedding the worrying amount of flab that I've built up thanks to my cuddly-bloke-loving cheesecake baking ex-girlfriend
 

---

Posted by rosamundi (# 2495) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
rosamundi - I have not ever actually done this. I have ( when I was working in Stratford E15 ) met some tourists who were looking for Shakespeares birthplace.

What they asked me for was a road nome, so it was a leaving comment that I only really heard too late, that it was Shakespeares place they were after.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
They can also be very variable. Our local one used to do really nice stuff, but it changed hands and now is awful. Price is not always an indication of quality.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ferijen:
Oh, whilst we're on the subject, "salunigar" means 'salt and vinegar' in these establishments. If you say no, as I always do, you tend to get an incredulous look.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Yangtze:
Salt and vinegar on chips is divine. Why on earth would you not want to have it?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sioni Sais:

We from the western side of the Pennines major in the higher arts such as sarcasm, irony, micky taking and black humour. Oh, and we can't shut up and are a bit daft too.

---

.. The only reason we have the western side of the Pennines is to stop all the excess rain from falling on "God's Own County" (Yorkshire)...

note to Non-Brits:
This is a typical example of "Northern Humour"!

MrP, "Born n Brewed in Leeds the traditional way".
(So too is that..)
 

---

Posted by Firenze (# 619) on :
 
Come to Scotland.

Here it's saltinsoss ('soss' = brown goop)
 

---

Posted by Ariel (# 58) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Oxymoron:
Every time I get fish'n'chips they ask I want salt and vinegar. I say salt, no vinegar. They then turn around, get the fish'n'chips, turn to face me, and put on salt and vinegar.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by MrPiccolo:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sioni Sais:

We from the western side of the Pennines major in the higher arts such as sarcasm, irony, micky taking and black humour. Oh, and we can't shut up and are a bit daft too.

---

.. The only reason we have the western side of the Pennines is to stop all the excess rain from falling on "God's Own County" (Yorkshire)...

note to Non-Brits:
This is a typical example of "Northern Humour"!

MrP, "Born n Brewed in Leeds the traditional way".
(So too is that..)

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sioni Sais:

And, of course, the only reason for the eastern side of the Pennines is to keep the worst of the wind off Lancashire.

---

.. "There's some lovely roads out of Lancashire; (any road out of Lancashire is lovely..)"
 

---

Posted by Ferijen (# 4719) on :
 
For the salt and vinegar thing - vinegar I've never cared much for, salt takes away the flavour and I never, ever add it to anything, even when cooking (yes, even when it says 'cook in salted water'). I am particularly traumatised when people add salt to things like lettuce and tomatoes. Not to mention what it might do for your blood pressure/heart etc. etc.

To understand English food properly, and the differences between North East and North West cuisine (speaking as someone with half the family from the NE and having lived in Lancashire for most of my life - do not let my southern residence deceive you...) is the fact that on one side of the pennines it is more traditional to 'mush' your peas, and in the other it is considered more stylish to solidify them into pease pudding. Both are equally vile...

[ 18. June 2004, 10:47: Message edited by: Ferijen ]
 

---

Posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider (# 76) on :
 
It's actually the purpose of the Pennines themselves, amongst other purposes.

The Pennines are actually for the following:

(1) Heralding winter with the first snow on Snake Pass. This means it's time to bring your non-frost hardy perrenials in.

(2) Forcing damp Atlantic air to drench Manchester before getting here.

(3) Nice walks in the summer

(4) Quaint Teashops to fleece daft southerners of their cash.

(5) Quaint Crafte Shoppes in market towns for the same purpose, but in larger amounts

(6) Somewhere to put the Cat and Fiddle Inn
 

---

Posted by Yangtze (# 4965) on :
 
Ferijen - remember on another thread I thought you were me? (At least I think that was you, if not this is a very weird comment.) Well now I realise you are the bit of me that went down the other trouser leg of time and space. Mushy peas are manna from heaven. Particularly when eaten with chips soused in vinegar.

Pickled eggs on the other hand are something I have never yet dared to get near.
 

---

Posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider (# 76) on :
 
Mushy peas are wonderful. Unfortunately there are many unenlightened souls who have yet to understand them.

Pickled eggs, on the other hand, just taste like hard boiled eggs with vinegar on them.
 

---

Posted by Ormo (# 4805) on :
 
Mushy peas are one thing that I wish more chippies here had...

Which side of the pennines is the mushy peas side? I hope it is the west side...
 

---

Posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider (# 76) on :
 
There are chippies WITHOUT mushy peas?

[ 18. June 2004, 11:04: Message edited by: Karl: Liberal Backslider ]
 

---

Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by MrPiccolo:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sioni Sais:

And, of course, the only reason for the eastern side of the Pennines is to keep the worst of the wind off Lancashire.

---

.. "There's some lovely roads out of Lancashire; (any road out of Lancashire is lovely..)"

---

A Blackburn lad wins £500,000 on the lotto and gets a nice house, tells the boss where to put the job and on return from holiday goes to the local luxury car dealer.

He has a look around and the salesman describes the really quick ones to him ending with the phrase "With one of these you can be in Halifax in 15 minutes". Our hero thinks for a few seconds then decides not to buy. The salesman, disappointed asks why. "Oh, it's a lovely car but why would anyone want to be in Halifax".
 

---

Posted by MrPiccolo (# 7103) on :
 
Lancashire dialect


The Lancashire dialect reverses the "u" sounds in "put" and "putt." A Lancastrian gave a lecture to a large mixed class on the Antarctic expedition led by Sir Vivian Fuchs. He called him F*cks throughout. A colleague remonstrated after the lecture: "You know, his name is Fuchs." "Oh yes; but I didn't like to say it with all those ladies present."

--J.E.Littlewood, "A Mathematician's Miscellany"

This could drag on and on ..
 

---

Posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider (# 76) on :
 
All the Lancastrians I know, in common with everyone else between Peterborough and Carlisle, pronounce "put" and "putt" the same.
 

---

Posted by MrPiccolo (# 7103) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
All the Lancastrians I know, in common with everyone else between Peterborough and Carlisle, pronounce "put" and "putt" the same.

---

i believe the lancastrian pronouciation of "put" could be expressed as "poot" as in "boot" instead of "but"; if that helps karl..

And i thought i was pedantic..
 

---

Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 
From what I recall the "put" and "poot" distinction is more East Lancs (anywhere east of a line through Bolton & Blackburn) than Lancashire in general.

"flood" is pronounced with a long "o" not "flud" and some pronounce "good" likewise.
 

---

Posted by Ariel (# 58) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
There are chippies WITHOUT mushy peas?

---

You bet. You know you're Up North, when you see guacamole in the chip shops.
 

---

Posted by MrPiccolo (# 7103) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
From what I recall the "put" and "poot" distinction is more East Lancs (anywhere east of a line through Bolton & Blackburn) than Lancashire in general.

"flood" is pronounced with a long "o" not "flud" and some pronounce "good" likewise.

---

Ahh yes, the great difference between yorkies and lancies, you over-emphasise the vowels: we just truncate them or lose them altogether; very symbolic of all our general manner of oral trans-pennine communication differences.. IMHO..

[ 18. June 2004, 12:13: Message edited by: MrPiccolo ]
 

---

Posted by MrPiccolo (# 7103) on :
 
PS Does Bolton still exist?? I thought it had been swallowed up in that great Leviathan called "Greater Manchester" !!
 

---

Posted by ken (# 2460) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Moo:
Coot, thank you for enriching my vocabulary with the word 'squattocracy'.

---

Only in Australia are squatters regarded as a privileged upper class.
 

---

Posted by Alaric the Goth (# 511) on :
 
Aye, Bolton's still there, yet is part of Greater Manc. As is Leigh, where t'wife comes from. The Most Exciting Small Town in Britain, if not the World...

Yorkshire: home to Ingleborough, Pen-y-ghent, Whernside, Swaledale, Goathland, Bempton Cliffs, York, Beverley Minster, the Keighley & Worth Valley Railway, Ribblehead Viaduct, Knaresborough, (the proper) Richmond, the Black Sheep and Timothy Taylor's breweries, the Royal Armouries, Leeds Utd. etc. etc.

Lancashire, home to...?
 

---

Posted by ken (# 2460) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ariel:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
There are chippies WITHOUT mushy peas?

---

You bet. You know you're Up North, when you see guacamole in the chip shops.

---

Mushy peas are more of a southern thing I think. Ubiquitous round here.

In Lancashire they have parched peas which are different.

We also have saveloys. No-one knows what is in a saveloy. Some people suggest they may contain meat, others prefer to think of it as a kind of vegetable resin, a bit like rubber.
 

---

Posted by Eigon (# 4917) on :
 
...Blackpool Tower (and the Tower Circus, and the Pleasure Beach), the Beatles, Granada TV studios, the Forest of Bowland, certain internationally renowned football teams, Robinsons brewery, and Moorhouses (Pendle Witches, Black Cat), Pendle Hill itself.
Look, we may be smaller than Yorkshire, but we pack a lot in!
 

---

Posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider (# 76) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Alaric the Goth:
Aye, Bolton's still there, yet is part of Greater Manc. As is Leigh, where t'wife comes from. The Most Exciting Small Town in Britain, if not the World...

Yorkshire: home to Ingleborough, Pen-y-ghent, Whernside, Swaledale, Goathland, Bempton Cliffs, York, Beverley Minster, the Keighley & Worth Valley Railway, Ribblehead Viaduct, Knaresborough, (the proper) Richmond, the Black Sheep and Timothy Taylor's breweries, the Royal Armouries, Leeds Utd. etc. etc.

Lancashire, home to...?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ariel:
You know you're Up North, when you see guacamole in the chip shops.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Eigon:
...Blackpool Tower (and the Tower Circus, and the Pleasure Beach), THE BEATLES , Granada TV studios, the Forest of Bowland, certain internationally renowned football teams, Robinsons brewery, and Moorhouses (Pendle Witches, Black Cat), Pendle Hill itself.
Look, we may be smaller than Yorkshire, but we pack a lot in!

---

"Woh woh, woh!!" As Peter Kay would say; you are trying to tell me the Beatles (from Liverpool, Merseyside) are Lancastrians!!!???

I'll be interested to see what our scouse friends will say about that..!!!
 

---

Posted by ken (# 2460) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Alaric the Goth:
Aye, Bolton's still there, yet is part of Greater Manc. As is Leigh, where t'wife comes from. The Most Exciting Small Town in Britain, if not the World...

Yorkshire: home to Ingleborough, Pen-y-ghent, Whernside, Swaledale, Goathland, Bempton Cliffs, York, Beverley Minster, the Keighley & Worth Valley Railway, Ribblehead Viaduct, Knaresborough, (the proper) Richmond, the Black Sheep and Timothy Taylor's breweries, the Royal Armouries, Leeds Utd. etc. etc.

Lancashire, home to...?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by MrPiccolo:
you are trying to tell me the Beatles (from Liverpool, Merseyside) are Lancastrians!!!??? :I'll be interested to see what our scouse friends will say about that..!!!

---

quote:

---

The Old Man of Coniston (never got flippin up it, did we?)
Half of the Forest of Bowland
Morecambe Sands
Thwaites Brewery

---

Ah, it is indeed true that only about half of Bowland is Lancastrian, t'other being in the West Riding. I have only ever seen that part of the world from its edges, namely the Western edge from the Preston-Lancaster main line, and the North-Eastern from the Skipton-Carnforth line.

Thwaites isn't anything to write home about. Moorhouses' would be , however!

And Eigon, Robinson's would be in Cheshire, not Lancs, wouldn't it. Wherever it is, it will never be forgiven for taking over and closing down the Hartley's (Ulverston) brewery which was in Lancashire. One of teh best ales ever, was 'proper' Hartley's.

I wouldn't mention NorthWest sports teams if I were you! Not to a Leeds fan.
 

---

Posted by MrPiccolo (# 7103) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by ken:
You'll be telling us that Hull isn't in Yorkshire I suppose?

Places don't stop being where they are just because the government changes a few administrative boundaries.

And even if they did, "Merseyside" was after the Beatles.

---

.. the difference is we've reclaimed Hull; Liverpool OTOH, is still firmly cast adrift in that misnomer "Merseyside"

Rugby teams..?
Leeds Rhinos, Bradford Bulls..? :
 

---

Posted by Ferijen (# 4719) on :
 
Lancashire has a lot of faults.

But Accrington Stanley? Surely that makes up for lots of things...

At least we don't have Bradford. Or Wakefield. At least our dump-like places (Burnley, Blackburn, Darwen, Colne, Nelson) are small dumps

And we have better cheese.

Ferijen (upset that she's about to go away from the computer for a week and going to miss this debate hot up even more)

*not for want of trying on Blackburn's part
 

---

Posted by ken (# 2460) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Alaric the Goth:
I wouldn't mention NorthWest sports teams if I were you! Not to a Leeds fan.

---

Leeds are becoming a Proper British sports team - its the Taking Part that counts, not the winning
 

---

Posted by Oxymoron (# 5246) on :
 
I really must protest, this thread seems to have been hijacked by Northerners.

How ghastly!
 

---

Posted by Alaric the Goth (# 511) on :
 
I must say, whether I lived in Yorkshire (as I do) or Lancashire, my negative attitude to the 'rugby league' thing means I would never be regarded as a 'true native' (I am Sunderland born, despite my fondness for Yorks. (and some aspects of Lancs., I'll admit!)) Have to see if my Leeds-born sons grow to like RL...
 

---

Posted by Alaric the Goth (# 511) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ferijen:
Lancashire has a lot of faults. ...

At least we don't have Bradford. Or Wakefield. At least our dump-like places (Burnley, Blackburn, Darwen, Colne, Nelson) are small dumps...

And we have better cheese....

---

What's wrong with Wakey? I worked there for several years and it's got a nice cathedral, good pubs, a (generally) nice town centre. And IMO it's smaller than Blackburn.

I won't try and defend Bradford (well not the city itself: Bradford MDC includes Ilkley Moor, Haworth, the Worth Valley Railway and the aforementioned Taylor's brewery, so does include some of me Favourite Things!).

('Not even') Wensleydale is better than 'Lancashire'. Both are better than Cheddar, of course.
 

---

Posted by MrPiccolo (# 7103) on :
 
its interesting to note that all the "defenders of Lancashire" on this thread" :
are now living elsewhere than their place of birth
I wonder what that tells us..
 

---

Posted by Ferijen (# 4719) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by MrPiccolo:
its interesting to note that all the "defenders of Lancashire" on this thread" :
are now living elsewhere than their place of birth
I wonder what that tells us..

---

(And I don't necessarily defend it that much: I just think its better than Yorkshire.)
 

---

Posted by ken (# 2460) on :
 
Sunderland. Now that's the proper North.

Weardale, Teesdale, Deepdale, Bowes, Barnard Castle, leeks, Vaux's beer (the memories are fonder than the taste), Castle Eden, Federation, Marsden Rock (the arch fell down ), the pit pond at Dawdon (they closed it ), pink snow (nae mair, nae mair), the Social Club on Browney Lane in Meadofield, the Colpitt's Tavern in Durham City, the Venerable Bede - we're having no truck with modern boundaries here, so Jarrow is in Durham and we can have the Jarrow March, the Miner's Gala, the Penshore Monument, the City of Durham itself and the wonderfullest Cathedral in the northern world.
 

---

Posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider (# 76) on :
 
True words were spoken above by Ken - places do not move just because administrative boundaries do.

Fact: Liverpool is in Lancashire, whether other Lancastrians want it or not.

Ditto Manchester

Even odder fact: a good proportion of Sheffield - Totley, Dore, Meersbrook, Woodseats, Beighton, Crystal Peaks, Waterthorpe - is in Derbyshire
 

---

Posted by Alaric the Goth (# 511) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by ken:
Sunderland. Now that's the proper North.

Weardale, Teesdale, Deepdale, Bowes, Barnard Castle, leeks, Vaux's beer (the memories are fonder than the taste), Castle Eden, Federation, Marsden Rock (the arch fell down ), the pit pond at Dawdon (they closed it ), pink snow (nae mair, nae mair), the Social Club on Browney Lane in Meadofield, the Colpitt's Tavern in Durham City, the Venerable Bede - we're having no truck with modern boundaries here, so Jarrow is in Durham and we can have the Jarrow March, the Miner's Gala, the Penshore Monument, the City of Durham itself and the wonderfullest Cathedral in the northern world.

---

Noo ye're taalkin'!
Marsden Rock: not the same since the incident you mention. And they blew up the smaller of the remaining stacks , claiming it was unsafe.

'Vaux' wasn't actually all that good, but it's a shame they closed it. You can still get 'Double Maxim' in bottles (quite canny), as a Sunderland brewery was set up (not on the Vaux site) with that brand name.

And it's Penshaw Monument, please!

('And when he'd etten aal he could
And when he had hees fill
He craaled away
And wrapped hees tail
Ten times roond Penshaa Hill')

Ironically the hill (above) in The Lambton Worm is probably Worm Hill and not the one with the Monument on it!
 

---

Posted by Ferijen (# 4719) on :
 
Alaric and Ken:



Not only by virtue of being a Durham alumna, but also because of my maternal family connections. County Durham over Lancashire every day (although still Lancashire over Yorkshire )
 

---

Posted by Yangtze (# 4965) on :
 
Dear Undiscovered Country (the original poster),

I suspect these recent posts have provided a practical example of what is strange about the British. Are you managing to follow them at all, or have the references to places and things unknown sent you fleeing?

Yours

Yangtze
 

---

Posted by Schroedinger's cat (# 64) on :
 
If you want to understand the British, you need to realise that the county you were born in is very very important. Despite the fact that they may seem rather small, and you may only have to go a few miles to get into a different one, they are foreign, different, and ( probably ) the enemy.

In fact, the variety of culture that you can experience in a very short time can be deceptive. That Yorkshire people and Lancashire people may seem to speak in a similar way, to an untrained ear, they are hugely different, as the above few posts show.

[I am half of each, so I am keeping out of the discussion]
 

---

Posted by Eigon (# 4917) on :
 
Mr Piccolo is right - I was born a Mancunian and I don't think I would ever go back.
 

---

Posted by Papa_Smurf (# 1654) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Oxymoron:
I really must protest, this thread seems to have been hijacked by Northerners.

How ghastly!

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
If you want to understand the British, you need to realise that the county you were born in is very very important. Despite the fact that they may seem rather small, and you may only have to go a few miles to get into a different one, they are foreign, different, and ( probably ) the enemy.

In fact, the variety of culture that you can experience in a very short time can be deceptive. That Yorkshire people and Lancashire people may seem to speak in a similar way, to an untrained ear, they are hugely different, as the above few posts show.

[I am half of each, so I am keeping out of the discussion]

---

What a quaint, paroachial, nay, perhaps "perculiar" island race we Brits. are!!
I think I hear the opening bars of "Land of Hope.." stirring in the background..
 

---

Posted by RuthW (# 13) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Yangtze:
Dear Undiscovered Country (the original poster),

I suspect these recent posts have provided a practical example of what is strange about the British. Are you managing to follow them at all, or have the references to places and things unknown sent you fleeing?

---

Undiscovered Country is British, isn't he?

Unless I miss my guess, mine is the first post by a non-Brit in almost a week. I have no idea what you're talking about anymore. But I am more convinced than ever that you're all very strange.
 

---

Posted by MrPiccolo (# 7103) on :
 
.."you don't have to be mad to live here; but it helps"
old english proverb..

 

---

Posted by Yangtze (# 4965) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by RuthW:
[Undiscovered Country is British, isn't he?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
True words were spoken above by Ken - places do not move just because administrative boundaries do.

Fact: Liverpool is in Lancashire, whether other Lancastrians want it or not.

Ditto Manchester

---

eeeeeerrrrrrrrmmm

get your facts RIGHT

Liverpool is NOT in Lancashire, it is in Merseyside, and dont talk to me about historically either because I was born in Merseyside and we dont discuss any former connections with Manchester that are MYTHS


 

---

Posted by Aliciaa (# 7668) on :
 
oh and I'm always nice to tourists, but is that to do do the Welsh in me or the Scouse in me, I'm not sure.

My Welsh family (mothers side) call Liverpool the capital of North Wales, I think what they mean is the shopping / clubbing capital.

meanwhile my dads side (Scouse) is close to pushing for total independence for Liverpool.

Yes we British are strange... but Liverpool is distinct from Lancashire, and we are very welcoming of all tourists (well not so much the Mancunian variety...

Liverpool - European Capital of Culture for 2008 ...
 

---

Posted by GeordieDownSouth (# 4100) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by ken:
Sunderland. Now that's the proper North.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Aliciaa:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
True words were spoken above by Ken - places do not move just because administrative boundaries do.

Fact: Liverpool is in Lancashire, whether other Lancastrians want it or not.

Ditto Manchester

---

eeeeeerrrrrrrrmmm

get your facts RIGHT

Liverpool is NOT in Lancashire, it is in Merseyside, and dont talk to me about historically either because I was born in Merseyside and we dont discuss any former connections with Manchester that are MYTHS

---

My facts are correct. Merseyside is an administrative creation of 1974 intended purely to administer those parts of Lancashire and Cheshire on either bank of the Mersey. They don't stop those places being in Lancashire and Cheshire.

That scousers don't feel worthy to be called Lancastrians is their self-esteem problem.

[ 09. July 2004, 09:37: Message edited by: Karl: Liberal Backslider ]
 

---

Posted by Aliciaa (# 7668) on :
 
Move with the times and get over it

Liverpool is the adminstration capital of MERSEYSIDE.



since I and most people of my generation have never lived in Lancashire it is factually incorrect for me and people of my generation.

this is why the British are wierd, some of us live in the past.
 

---

Posted by Aliciaa (# 7668) on :
 
and besides by what right have people in Chesterfield to tell me where I live?


 

---

Posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider (# 76) on :
 
It is the facts, not my location, that place you in Lancashire.

You were born in Lancashire. You live there now. The administrative counties were never intended to replace the traditional ones. That is the error you are making.


 

---

Posted by Aliciaa (# 7668) on :
 
oh get over it your giving us Brits a reputation for being strange



I will accept your apology in your next post, I was born in Liverpool, Merseyside, not part of Lanacashire in MY lifetime.
 

---

Posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider (# 76) on :
 
I should add to this the Government statement concerning this:

"The new county boundaries are administrative areas, and will not alter the traditional boundaries of counties, nor is it intended that the loyalties of people living in them will change, despite the different names adopted by the new administrative counties"

In other words, Liverpool is in the administrative county of Merseyside, but is part of the traditional county of Lancashire.

[ 09. July 2004, 09:54: Message edited by: Karl: Liberal Backslider ]
 

---

Posted by Aliciaa (# 7668) on :
 
and most of us younger folk know that tradition is not necessarily fact.
 

---

Posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider (# 76) on :
 
The traditional boundaries of Lancashire are pretty factual, though, don't you think?
 

---

Posted by Aliciaa (# 7668) on :
 
yep, Britons are strange, I agree with the OP, and advance this view by saying that SOME of us are so obsessed with TRADITION that they fail to observe change. Very strange.
 

---

Posted by Eigon (# 4917) on :
 
Liverpool's always been different though. I remember an April Fool on Look North, many years ago, where the "breaking news" throughout the programme was that Liverpool had declared UDI and was barricading itself off. It worked as a joke because it was so plausible.
 

---

Posted by Aliciaa (# 7668) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Eigon:
Liverpool's always been different though. I remember an April Fool on Look North, many years ago, where the "breaking news" throughout the programme was that Liverpool had declared UDI and was barricading itself off. It worked as a joke because it was so plausible.

---

thank you Eigon ... I love your town by the way and I remember reading about Hay on Wye declaring independence or something along those lines...

lots and lots of bookshops - my kinda place


 

---

Posted by Stoo (# 254) on :
 
[Tricorne Hat on]

Aliciaa,

It reads to me like you're verging on making personal attacks outside of Hell Commandment 4). Because you're new, I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you're being playful rather than vindictive.

You might find it useful to read the introductions to each board. Heaven's is here.

Gauging the tone of each board is something new posters can find tricky. It might help to read through several threads on each board before jumping in.

Hope this is of some use!

[Tricorne Hat off]
 

---

Posted by Aliciaa (# 7668) on :
 
I can assure you I am being playful not vindictive. ( Well I was - the funs suddenly faded )

What have I said that could offend?

If its about Manchester Its common knowledge that Liverpool and Manchester have local rivalry (its not really as bad as you think) and as for the other points I've made I am just setting the facts straight as I see them.

to borrow from AliG

I sit because I is scouse?
Or is it because I is 1/2 welsh?
or is it because I is new ... why pick on me?



Aliciaa - feeling victimised...
(why single me out?)
 

---

Posted by ce (# 1957) on :
 
I thought that all that "Murkeyside Contra Mundi" crap finally died a death after Deggsy fell off his perch and decided to become a rich bastard!
Perhaps you should tell the owners of this splendid 1812 Lancashire Map that it's a myth?
Oh and Liverpool is really a hamlet in the Hundred of West Derby.
It is possible to observe change without forgetting history, even though I still live in the County Of Middlesex.
 

---

Posted by Aliciaa (# 7668) on :
 
personally I think this kind of stuff is a personal attack rather than anything I said

oh well, God bless you all, I forgive you

Alicia turns the other cheek ( since other people round here seem to have no sense of humour and are obviously prejujiced against the beautiful city where I live )
 

---

Posted by Aliciaa (# 7668) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Aliciaa:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
[qb] Fact: Liverpool is in Lancashire, whether other Lancastrians want it or not.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Aliciaa:
I can assure you I am being playful not vindictive. ( Well I was - the funs suddenly faded )

What have I said that could offend?
...

Aliciaa - feeling victimised...
(why single me out?)

---

quote:

---

Alicia turns the other cheek ( since other people round here seem to have no sense of humour and are obviously prejujiced against the beautiful city where I live )

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Aliciaa:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Aliciaa:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
[qb] Fact: Liverpool is in Lancashire, whether other Lancastrians want it or not.

---

this is more of a personal attack than anything I said.

no dont defend your city Aliciaa - youre new round here.

---

Hi Aliciaa,
You are right to say that the above quote from KLB borders on being a personal attack: however, going back to Stoo's hosting comment, your reply to KLB saying he was obessed with tradition was also a personal attack!

(I never thought as a neutral yorkshireman(tm) i would be agreeing with a Lancastrian, but there you go..SOF is a strange place )

I think what Stoo was trying to say is that here on the "nice" SOF boards it is fair game to attack someone's argument or facts, but it is not ok to stray into the area of trading personal insults.
Personal attacks can only legitimately be made in Hell

Always attack the argument, not the author.
(It's a rule of thumb that works well round here; and yes, it took me a long while to learn it myself )
I hope you do make many more posts on SOF, Aliciaa, since I for one have found your posts helpful and interesting
I hope this clarifies things a bit..
 

---

Posted by ce (# 1957) on :
 
For "major city" read "major industrial city".
At least Liverpool has a proper water-front which is more than you can say for Manchester.
 

---

Posted by Stoo (# 254) on :
 
[Tricorne Hat on]

And we'll leave the derailment there then!

Ok... on with the strangeness of us Brits!

[Tricorne Hat off]
 

---

Posted by Aliciaa (# 7668) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Aliciaa:
[qb] [QUOTE]Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
[qb] That scousers don't feel worthy to be called Lancastrians is their self-esteem problem.

---

and this is not a swipe at me?

If your gonna criticise please do it fairly... I feel like Ive been singled out over others who are doing the same thing.

in any event I WAS just having fun just like I thought Karl was, to my mind it was just friendly banter, it only became serious when I alone was criticised.

I dont want to take any argument to hell because it only became an argument once you pointed it out. If that happens over something so trivial then I will just leave the boards.

but on the other hand I maintain that since other people dont live here what right do they have to tell me where I live?

and I tried to keep it on topic by saying that this is actually what is strange about the British, some of them live in the past and try to insist that other people see everything the same way. I dont see it that way, I live in Merseyside, the year is 2004 not 1971 or 1892, have we established that yet or will you allow other people and your critisism of one newbie to derail the discussion?

To anyone that has been offended by anything that I have said - I apologise unreservedly that was not my intention and I thought we were having fun.

However I am now unsure as to wether as a scouser with "low self esteem" who does not live in the county that she thinks she does and whos city has been described in other threads as a city of thieves and vagabonds and also as a newbie who simply hasnt followed the rules whilst others so impeccably have, well am I welcome here or not, because I am now feeling quite emotional and I dont know what to think.


 

---

Posted by Stoo (# 254) on :
 
[Tricorne Hat on]

Questions about Hosts judgement calls belongs in the Styx, not on this thread. If you post your questions there, I, or an admin, will come and answer them. (Better be quick though... I'm off for the weekend in 45 minutes)

Don't derail this thread any longer.

[Tricorne Hat off]

[ 09. July 2004, 11:15: Message edited by: Stoo ]
 

---

Posted by Aliciaa (# 7668) on :
 
oh, thank you for your post Mr Picollo, I think that was "cross posting" is it called? I must have been typing my last post at the same time.

Im very sensitive person by the way, and at the moment I am deeply hurt and I need a hug.
 

---

Posted by Jenny Ann (# 3131) on :
 
Try all saints. thats huggy.

J
 

---

Posted by MrPiccolo (# 7103) on :
 
Aliciaa,
please, don't feel singled out!
Let me re-iterate that, all Stoo was trying to do was explain the background rules by which the SOF operates; and which applies to all users .

It can take a while for newbies to grow accustomed to the various board "styles" (as i said in my own previous post ); but after you have gone through that steep learning curve, it does become easier, honest .

And yes, you're right, KLB should also receive a gentle warning from a host,(IMHO), for his provocative comments to you..

Take care
Ian.
 

---

Posted by MrPiccolo (# 7103) on :
 
Yet another cross-post above !! (Soz)
Yes, lets all have a hug!

 

---

Posted by Aliciaa (# 7668) on :
 
*hugs* go out to all
and a smile for Mr Piccolo
(and a special extra hug for Karl)
 

---

Posted by Aliciaa (# 7668) on :
 
if at all possible can we then move on ?

Us Brits really are strange folk arent we? lol


 

---

Posted by MrPiccolo (# 7103) on :
 
That's another strange thing about the British,
...We're so polite it's unbelievable!
 

---

Posted by Marvin the Martian (# 4360) on :
 
Another strange thing about the Brits: their apologies often take longer than the actual disagreement...
 

---

Posted by Eigon (# 4917) on :
 
I went to a writer's workshop run by David Gerrold once. As an American, he observed how "terribly, terribly polite" the English seemed in British made dramas. We went straight off after that to watch UFO, and cracked up laughing at how "terribly, terribly polite" the Moonbase team were.
 

---

Posted by MrPiccolo (# 7103) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
Another strange thing about the Brits: their apologies often take longer than the actual disagreement...

---

I guess it's due to the fact we still need to apologise for all that "Running The Empire(tm) thing!"

i.e. (..Since we did "use to run the world before the Americans!!" as Ricky Gervais once said..))
 

---

Posted by Eigon (# 4917) on :
 
I think we might have been like that when we did run the Empire....
 

---

Posted by ken (# 2460) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Eigon:
Liverpool's always been different though.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Eigon:
I went to a writer's workshop run by David Gerrold once. As an American, he observed how "terribly, terribly polite" the English seemed in British made dramas.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by ken:
That's because Americans sometimes can't tell when we are being rude. We're actually much nastier than them. But we use different signals to show it.

For example a shift into formality can signify rudeness from a Brit (or Australian, or Irish).

So an American who calls someone "Sir" or "Mr. so-and-so" might just be being polite to them. But - in certain contexts - a Brit using the same phrase might be mocking them. (Not all contexts - there are some where it is normal, but outside school or the armed forces they are now vanishingly rare)

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by ken:
That's because Americans sometimes can't tell when we are being rude. We're actually much nastier than them. But we use different signals to show it.

For example a shift into formality can signify rudeness from a Brit (or Australian, or Irish).

---

I am suddenly haunted by the fear that nobody I work with actually knows when I am pissed off, and just thinks I am prone to sudden, unheralded mood swings.

So the other day when I was on a conference call with people from the US, Belgium and France, and they said something that annoyed me, I quite naturally started talking to them very, very politely, using phrases like "I can assure you" and "With the greatest respect". Now to me (and any sane person I reckon) this obviously signals the chill before the storm, look out matey another step down that road and blood will be spilled.

It suddenly and horrifyingly occurs to me that to them it might have just sounded like I was backing down, or even (gulp) being conciliatory.

Surely not?
 

---

Posted by RuthW (# 13) on :
 
Can't speak for anyone else, but if someone started off a sentence addressed to me "with all due respect," I'd know they were giving me the finger under the table. Nobody ever says that and means it.
 

---

Posted by Ariel (# 58) on :
 
I think it was in "Yes Minister" where Humphrey, the civil servant, says, "With the greatest of respect, Minister", when he doesn't like something the MP has just decided to do, and Jim Hacker (MP) notes quietly to himself in his diary something along the lines of, "When Humphrey starts using phrases like that, I know he's really angry."
 

---

Posted by Custard123 (# 5402) on :
 
I can't understand the whole yorkshire / lancashire rivalry thing. I mean, we had a war about it, and Lancashire won, albeit with a little help from the Welsh (a lot of whom are scousers anyway).

So what are you arguing about? Lancashire is clearly better.
 

---

Posted by Rat (# 3373) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by RuthW:
Can't speak for anyone else, but if someone started off a sentence addressed to me "with all due respect," I'd know they were giving me the finger under the table. Nobody ever says that and means it.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by ken:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Eigon:
Liverpool's always been different though.

---

It is the only city in Britain I have ever been to where random people met on the street were rude or unfriendly to me. For example I asked someone the time and they just said "fuck off" or asked someone the way to somewhere and they deliberatly misled me for a joke. That sort of thing has happened to me about 5 times in Liverpool. In Leeds, Newcastle, Manchester, Glasgow, all of which I have visited often, people seem normal and helpful and friendly to strangers.

In Sheffield they are positively affectionate - its hard to wait at a bus-stop without hearing the story of someone's life.

But in Liverpool many people seem to hear a non-Liverpool accent and immediatly get aggressive. Even people serving in shops or cafes often act in an unfriendly way that I just haven't seen elsewhere, even as nearby as Warrington, or Manchester. Or, frankly, Birkenhead. Which is by comparison a nice place.

---

quote:

---

There are those who will show you the way, take our twin cathedrals for example, where else in the UK can you find such perfect Ecunumical Unity?

---

Sheffield
 

---

Posted by Glass Angel (# 5779) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:

quote:

---

There are those who will show you the way, take our twin cathedrals for example, where else in the UK can you find such perfect Ecunumical Unity?

---

Sheffield

---

And Norwich.
 

---

Posted by Chapelhead (# 1143) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ronist:
I used to think it odd that Americans especially southern were still fighting the Civil War. Then on this "ship" I discovered the the Brits were still fighting the War of the Roses. It's over guys. Time to move on.

---

Some of us are still on 1066. Or even earlier.
 

---

Posted by Ariel (# 58) on :
 
Sodding Romans Coming in here and taking our jobs away and building their bloody aqueducts all over the place and telling us we need planning permission to build huts. Planting their blasted foreign fruit and veg everywhere and introducing CATS. They can't even be bothered to learn our language, they expect us to speak theirs. Who do they think they are? Romanes Eunt Domus, that's what I say.
 

---

Posted by Corfe (# 633) on :
 
What's odd about us?
How about gurning or shin kicking?
These links are to a site advertising a book but it does demonstrate a few other odd pastimes. I can't quite see the attraction in getting kicked. Any ideas?

Anyone fancy a Ship online gurning competition? Unfortunately I couldn't compete convincingly as I was overlooked when ugliness was being handed out.
 

---

Posted by Chapelhead (# 1143) on :
 
The Romans. What have they ever done for us?

Celtic Christianity, that's what we should stick to.
 

---

Posted by Custard123 (# 5402) on :
 
Also interesting that British attitudes to foreigners are largely conditioned by wars a long time ago.

Hence the hatred for the French, with whom we were at war (on and off) from about 1200 to about 1850. And this despite their sterling service as human shields in the last two big wars.
 

---

Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 
It all went wrong with the Synod of Whitby (c AD 600, following the Unpleasantness at Aust (no, I don't mean the motorway service area).

That pretext of "converting the heathen Anglo-Saxons" was a cover for destroying the Celtic Church.

That should stoke it up again.
 

---

Posted by Chapelhead (# 1143) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
It all went wrong with the Synod of Whitby (c AD 600, following the Unpleasantness at Aust (no, I don't mean the motorway service area).

That pretext of "converting the heathen Anglo-Saxons" was a cover for destroying the Celtic Church.

---

Surely not. The Past Times catalogue is full of it.
 

---

Posted by Rat (# 3373) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ariel:
Sodding Romans Coming in here and taking our jobs away and building their bloody aqueducts all over the place and telling us we need planning permission to build huts.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Corfe:
What's odd about us?
How about gurning or shin kicking?

---

Speaking of "Strange" games.

I remember seeing on CBS news (America) (with Dan Rather ) that over here in Britain our folks were holding the annual "worm charming" championships.

It involved loads of people trying to charm worms out of the ground using various techniques.

That was strange! - and embarassing

I did'nt see it on TV over here in Britain but Dan was having a good old laugh about it in the States.


 

---

Posted by Eigon (# 4917) on :
 
A local village to us does worm charming - it also happens to be the home of a firm that breeds worms to put in compost bins.
Then there's welly-wanging, of course (throwing a wellington boot as far as you can).
The bog-snorkelling is, strictly speaking, in Wales.
 

---

Posted by Corfe (# 633) on :
 
Cheese-rolling anyone?
 

---

Posted by Pânts. (# 4487) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Corfe:
Cheese-rolling anyone?

---

Just down the road... great fun!!
 

---

Posted by Eigon (# 4917) on :
 
Oh, and pace egging (rolling hard boiled eggs down hills at Easter time) and those madmen who run around with burning tar barrels on their heads. Some old English customs are very strange indeed.
Has anyone mentioned morris dancing yet?
 

---

Posted by Moo (# 107) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Eigon:
Oh, and pace egging (rolling hard boiled eggs down hills at Easter time)...

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Moo:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Eigon:
[qb]Can you tell me where in England they roll Easter eggs?

---

I've seen it done in Preston, Lancashire.


After a while some of the older kids decided to throw them.

Then one of the adults present - a policeman - got out a bat (baseball? Cricket? I can't remember) and decided to bat them away. Very messily.


This is the only time I have ever witnessed a church outing throwing eggs at a policeman.
 

---

Posted by LydaRose (# 4544) on :
 
The policeman batting away- what? The older kids?

edit ps- They have an Easter egg roll at the White House most years.

[ 12. July 2004, 14:19: Message edited by: LydaRose ]
 

---

Posted by Crotalus (# 4959) on :
 

quote:

---

One day Lowder found the choirboys of St. Barnabas filling their pockets with stones and preparing to bombard a sandwichman who carried a Protestant sandwich board. "You must not hurt that unhappy man," said Charles, "it would be very wrong; it would not, however, be wrong to obscure the words he is carrying. Throw the stones away, and there is sixpence to buy rotten eggs with." Now, it was the year of the Great Exhibition, and Prince Albert had brought in the reign of plenty. Rotten eggs were very, very cheap that year, and you could get a lovely lot for sixpence. Consequently, the sandwich-board was successfully veiled in greenish yellow, and the Protestant Party complained to the Bishop. The Bishop was secretly rather amused and in private talked of Lowder's "ovation," but publicly he was very indignant and suspended Lowder for six weeks.

---

This is unattributed here, but it's from a sermon by H.F.B. Mackay.
 

---

Posted by Aliciaa (# 7668) on :
 
and dont even start the one about how football was invented


 

---

Posted by Ariel (# 58) on :
 
Football was invented by the Romans.

Or so I was told. (Which if true, would make Lazio one of the oldest teams on record.)
 

---

Posted by geroff (# 3882) on :
 
Phew
Its taken me a week to read through this thread.(I only get the odd 10minutes around lunchtime).

I think what makes the British Strange is village customs . Abbots Bromley is pretty strange anyway. (See the purgatory thread on ghosts.)
 

---

Posted by ken (# 2460) on :
 
What's really strange about the British is that we eat more carrots and watercress per head (per stomach?) than any other country in the world.

And we eat less beef per head (much less) than just about any other rich western country. And have a higher proportion of vegetarians in the population.

And a higher proportion of our population live abroad than of any other populous rich country (though to say that we have to define Ireland and New Zealand as "not populous" as even more of them leave home. Though culturally those places are next cousins to the Brits, so there must be something about us that makes us go far, far away Actually the "something" is probably just being islands.)

And we have a (much) lower murder rate than any othe large country, except Japan. But we get involved in more foreign wars than anyone else & have done so consistently for 3 centuries.

I sort of hope that these facts aren't connected - do we export our steak-guzzling murderers and retain the peaceful vegetarians?
 

---

Posted by Campbellite (# 1202) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by ken:
I sort of hope that these facts aren't connected - do we export our steak-guzzling murderers and retain the peaceful vegetarians?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by MrPiccolo:
its interesting to note that all the "defenders of Lancashire" on this thread" :
are now living elsewhere than their place of birth

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by geroff:
But this gets into another great British controversy - is it a cob, a roll, or a bap. this indeed could occupy a complete thread of its own.

---

quote:

---

A stotty cake is an even larger large flattish bread - large enough that you could call it either a large roll or a small loaf.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Alaric the Goth:
Posted by ken:

quote:

---

A stotty cake is an even larger large flattish bread - large enough that you could call it either a large roll or a small loaf.

---

Aye, stotties! At least that's the reet name for them in Newcassel and Sun'land. The queeor folks doon in Lancashire caall them 'barm cakes', Ah believe.

---

Now you see lads, you're both wrong!

A large flattish bread thingy is called a "new-cake" according to mi mam!; (And if you want to argue with her; i'll send her around to see ya with 'er clogs on.. )

[ 14. July 2004, 14:21: Message edited by: MrPiccolo ]
 

---

Posted by Gremlin (# 129) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by ken:
And we eat less beef per head (much less) than just about any other rich western country. And have a higher proportion of vegetarians in the population.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by ken:

quote:

---

Originally posted by geroff:
But this gets into another great British controversy - is it a cob, a roll, or a bap. this indeed could occupy a complete thread of its own.

---

No it couldn't. The situation is quite clear.

Rolls are a general term for small round bread thingies, too small to call a loaf.

Cobs are bigger - loaf size. By defintion.

A bap is a largish flattish roll. But smaller than a loaf.

A stotty cake is an even larger large flattish bread - large enough that you could call it either a large roll or a small loaf.

Simple.

---

Y'what? A cob isn't loaf sized! When I go to buy a "filled cob" I expect a sandwhich, not a whole bloody picnic!

(When I moved to Coventry to go to uni, I discovered these crazy southerners tend to call it a barm-cake. Confused the life out of me.)


Amorya
 

---

Posted by Ariel (# 58) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Amorya:
(When I moved to Coventry to go to uni, I discovered these crazy southerners tend to call it a barm-cake. Confused the life out of me.)

---

It would confuse the life out of me too. I never heard the word "barm-cake" before I came on these boards. Nor have I ever seen anything labelled as such in a shop. I'd imagine Coventry is probably as far south as it gets. I never heard of stotty cakes before reading this thread, either.

As far as I'm concerned I would understand a "barm-cake" to be a way of referring to barm brack, which is an Irish fruit bread akin to the Welsh bara brith.

In my part of the world you can buy rolls, or baps, which are larger. And many variations on a theme.

[ 15. July 2004, 02:13: Message edited by: Ariel ]
 

---

Posted by RuthW (# 13) on :
 
Sounds to me like you're all barmy.
 

---

Posted by LydaRose (# 4544) on :
 
Remind me never to try to order a sandwich in the UK.
 

---

Posted by Ariel (# 58) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by RuthW:
Sounds to me like you're all barmy.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by LydaRose:
Remind me never to try to order a sandwich in the UK.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Alaric the Goth:
Posted by ken:

quote:

---

A stotty cake is an even larger large flattish bread - large enough that you could call it either a large roll or a small loaf.

---

Aye, stotties! At least that's the reet name for them in Newcassel and Sun'land. The queeor folks doon in Lancashire caall them 'barm cakes', Ah believe.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ferijen:

quote:

---

Originally posted by LydaRose:
Remind me never to try to order a sandwich in the UK.

---

Would that be a butty or a sarnie?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Gremlin:
Isn't that just a little ironic given the French nickname for the British, Le Rost Bif

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ferijen:

quote:

---

Originally posted by LydaRose:
Remind me never to try to order a sandwich in the UK.

---

Would that be a butty or a sarnie?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Real Ale Methodist:
i recommend anyone in britain especially in lancaster to pop too the coop and seek out a Mumtaz curry.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Amorya:
Y'what? A cob isn't loaf sized! When I go to buy a "filled cob" I expect a sandwhich, not a whole bloody picnic!

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
I've never heard of a barm-cake or Stotty either. And I agree with Amorya that cob is roll-sized ( although possibly large roll sized ). Not loaf sized.

Baps would generally besmaller, but still sandwich sized. However the terms could be interchanged.

A roll would usually be smaller still, more a nibble than a sandwich.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Real Ale Methodist:
Bradford curry is a decidedly inner city thing not a thing from the toursit traps and is also world renowned - i recommend anyone in britain especially in lancaster to pop too the coop and seek out a Mumtaz curry.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Real Ale Methodist:

On another note i was recently exporting the weirdness of Britain to Prague - and the Americans we met there, the locals now think we are all mad - and incapable - however hard I tried I couldn't pronounce Narodni Trida (insert acents including other the r to make it a sort of r/g/z sound). The americans think we are all 'cool' which is interesting i wonder if this is a commenly held opinion - cool britania sort of thing??

---

I bet the whole world thinks we're mad barm cake eating vegetarian rosbeefs peacenik warmongers still fighting Hastings/ the Roses we collectively do seem mad thats for sure,


ps what would I do for a Chip Barm with Salad Cream right now. Darn that diet, all this talk of Barms / Baps is making me hungry.

Imagine Jesus "I am the bread of life,"

and Simon Peter goes " but which one Jesus, BarmCake,Bap or Cob?"


 

---

Posted by Amorya (# 2652) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by chukovsky:
I grew up in Warwickshire and went to school in Coven-tray and never, ever heard "barm-cake", Amorya. It is some of those North Warks/Derbyshire types pulling your leg I think. It is a bap or a roll.

---

Naah - it's written on the menu in all the various sandwich shops and chip shops round here. Pretty elaborate joke if it's all to fool me

Amorya
 

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Posted by Amorya (# 2652) on :
 
Oh, just to add another to the "name a roll" debate... at college you'd ask for a "chip batch" if you wanted your chips in a bread roll type thing.

Never seen anywhere else use that name though.


Amorya
 

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Posted by ken (# 2460) on :
 
"batch roll" is quite a well known name. Maybe that's where "chip batch" came from.

Batch rolls or batch loaves are made in a tray instead of individual tins & so have to be separated later. And have little marks on the side where they were stuck to their neighbouring bread product.

& while we're at it "barm" the froth on brewing beer, the meaning later extened to a yeast culture tkane from brewing beer. So a "barm" cake is a yeast cake - i.e. leavened bread - made with a beer culture.
 

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Posted by chukovsky (# 116) on :
 
Ken - or just "batches", as in "floury batch".

Amorya, I still maintain I have never seen a sandwich shop in Cov selling a barm-cake. Perhaps you have happened across the one shop owned and operated by someone who talks Lanky? Or was it Greggs? I think they're Northern.

This list suggests it is north-western use. And at De Montfort they warn unsuspecting southerners to watch out for cobs.
 

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Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 
I first heard about barm cakes from someone from Cheadle who had lived in that area of NE Cheshire (Stockport, Poynton, that area).

I don't know how general the term is though because my mum didn't use it and she was from Bury, just a bit further to the north of Manchester. Some of these things are very local indeed - a Local Word for Local People.
 

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Posted by Alaric the Goth (# 511) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
I first heard about barm cakes from someone from Cheadle who had lived in that area of NE Cheshire (Stockport, Poynton, that area).

I don't know how general the term is though because my mum didn't use it and she was from Bury, just a bit further to the north of Manchester. Some of these things are very local indeed - a Local Word for Local People.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Alaric the Goth:
They definitely use the term as far north as Leigh, and I think Bolton, so it must be quite close to Bury where it stops being used.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Crotalus:

quote:

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Originally posted by Gremlin:
Isn't that just a little ironic given the French nickname for the British, Le Rost Bif

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Rather dated, I believe; the current expression is les fuckoffs

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quote:

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Originally posted by Real Ale Methodist:
I was on holiday for a week and in that time someone insults Bradford (can't remeber who it took me ages to get through it all and eat second breakfast) deary deary me, even worse noone defended my birthplace.

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The problem is that Bradford is so easy to insult, and so difficult to defend

(I was brought up in W. Yorkshire, visited Bradford fairly often, and had my first paying job there)

Gremlin
 

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Posted by Amorya (# 2652) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by chukovsky:
This list suggests it is north-western use. And at De Montfort they warn unsuspecting southerners to watch out for cobs.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
I first heard about barm cakes from someone from Cheadle who had lived in that area of NE Cheshire (Stockport, Poynton, that area).

I don't know how general the term is though because my mum didn't use it and she was from Bury, just a bit further to the north of Manchester. Some of these things are very local indeed - a Local Word for Local People.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Amorya:
Oh, just to add another to the "name a roll" debate... at college you'd ask for a "chip batch" if you wanted your chips in a bread roll type thing.

Never seen anywhere else use that name though.

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quote:

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Let he who is Bradworthy cast the first scone.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Corfe:
All this bread-related talk is getting silly.

quote:

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Let he who is Bradworthy cast the first scone.

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I know ... Mankind cannot live on bread alone, even barmcakes,baps,rolls or scones won't do it.


 

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Posted by Gill B (# 112) on :
 
I grew up in St Helens and it was always a barm cake to us.
 

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Posted by ken (# 2460) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Gill B:
I grew up in St Helens

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We all have our problems.
 

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Posted by Amorya (# 2652) on :
 
Talking of things that pretend to be cakes... did you know that Jaffa Cakes are so called to avoid the tax on biscuits? Yes, the UK issues tax on biscuits (which are a luxury), but not on cake (which is apparently a staple food item )

Amorya
 

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Posted by kentishmaid (# 4767) on :
 
In East Kent bread rolls always used to be known as huffkins. I have a recipe for them somewhere, and they taste very nice indeed - quite creamy if you can imagine that in a bread.
 

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Posted by Inspector Hovis (# 7049) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Amorya:
Talking of things that pretend to be cakes... did you know that Jaffa Cakes are so called to avoid the tax on biscuits? Yes, the UK issues tax on biscuits (which are a luxury), but not on cake (which is apparently a staple food item )

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I think they proved they really were small cakes in court. The trick is that biscuits go soft with age, cakes go hard. And Jaffa Cakes go hard - they won the case. Hurrah!
 

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Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Inspector Hovis:

quote:

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Originally posted by Amorya:
Talking of things that pretend to be cakes... did you know that Jaffa Cakes are so called to avoid the tax on biscuits? Yes, the UK issues tax on biscuits (which are a luxury), but not on cake (which is apparently a staple food item )

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I think they proved they really were small cakes in court. The trick is that biscuits go soft with age, cakes go hard. And Jaffa Cakes go hard - they won the case. Hurrah!

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quote:

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Originally posted by Amos:
....Another thing--the way the English dress their tiny daughters: I think I mentioned on another thread the 'Porn Star' tee shirt spotted on a three year old. Will someone who was born here explain to me why so many six year olds are dressed like thirty year old slappers?

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Being from California, I know that Porn Star&trade is a brand of skateboards, so it's perfectly harmless for toddler-wear.

But, now, a question for the British is 'tea-time' the same as the US 'tee-time' or is it more like 'lunch-time'? It seems to be a large meal eaten approximately midday. Or so it seems from the British TV shows I watch nearly everyday.



 

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Posted by John Holding (# 158) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Sir Kevin:

But, now, a question for the British is 'tea-time' the same as the US 'tee-time' or is it more like 'lunch-time'? It seems to be a large meal eaten approximately midday. Or so it seems from the British TV shows I watch nearly everyday.

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Not a brit, but it's a class thing.

Middle-Upper -- tea is (or at least used to be, before people had jobs) at about 4:00, accompanied perhaps by a small sandwich, a crumpet, scone with cream, tea cake or the like (not all of them, just one of them), followed by a piece of cake or something small and sweet. Intended to tide one over until dinner at 7:30, don't you know.

Lower - tea is the evening meal, after coming home from work. It involves protein in some fashion, although the eater will have had "dinner" at noon.

John
 

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Posted by hermit (# 1803) on :
 
Oh, now you've gone and done it, Sir Kevin. And don't even ask about tiffin. It's all incomprehensible to me.
 

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Posted by Schroedinger's cat BA (# 64) on :
 
No, please not the British Meal Debate again. Please.

To people who do not understnad it, always check the time of meals, and the expected quantity, or plan to make changes to your established pattern. Do not try to understand the whole complex mess, do get your own position clarified. A few broad guidelines :

Evening meals are generally proper cooked food. Evening parties may have nibbles only, but may not.

Being invited around for late afternoon ( 3:30 - 4:00 ) tea or tea and cake will generally involve precisely that - cups of tea and cakes/buiscuits.
 

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Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on :
 
Thank you all! That's what I get for watching Foyle's War.
 

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Posted by Chapelhead (# 1143) on :
 
I will answer my own question by saying that if more than 25% of the biscuits in a tin of biscuits are chocolate biscuits then it is a tin of chocolate biscuits. Award yourself one ‘sad person’ point if you knew that. I have awarded myself ten ‘sad person’ points for asking it.

And having almost killed the thread by mentioning VAT, I will continue the subject by saying that apparently the latest subject HM Customs and Excise are keeping a close eye in is lap-dancing. The issue is how much of the fee should be subject to VAT - the whole fee or just that proportion the dancers pay the club owners for ‘rent’ of the booths. Our fine men and women from the ministry are closely investigating the matter thoroughly, gawd bless ‘em.

Which I suppose leads back to the question, ‘Why do the British get in such a tizzy about sex?’ I don’t think I buy the ‘protestant puritanism’ line. There just seems to be something about the British in particular that finds sex funny and embarrassing.
 

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Posted by Schroedinger's cat BA (# 64) on :
 
I can't remember if this has been covered yet, but one of those great British traits is saying sorry.

Non-brits need to realise that "Sorry" covers a whole range of things from "I'm sorry you're such a total loser" to "I have made a terrible mistake, and I admit my responsibility" via "I very nearly made bodily contact with you, in which case we would have had to have passionate sex, and neither of us want that".

We do tend to apologise for everything, beause we realise that most things are our responsibility at some point. This means that wehen we are apologising for you, we accept that somewhere the British probably made you the dumbwit you are, as you don't seem able to have done it yourself.

So sorry.
 

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Posted by ken (# 2460) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat BA:
"Sorry" covers a whole range of things from "I'm sorry you're such a total loser" to "I have made a terrible mistake, and I admit my responsibility" via "I very nearly made bodily contact with you,..."

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quote:

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Originally posted by ken:

quote:

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Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat BA:
"Sorry" covers a whole range of things from "I'm sorry you're such a total loser" to "I have made a terrible mistake, and I admit my responsibility" via "I very nearly made bodily contact with you,..."

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It can also mean "piss off you little turd".

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quote:

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Originally posted by Ferijen:
The word 'thank you' should be used as much as possible. If you don't mean thank you, but feel that some vague notion of politeness can be applied to the situation, use it anyway.

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quote:

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Originally posted by ken:
"Excuse me." means "let me past"

"Excuse me?" means "I didn't hear what you just said, please repeat it"

"Please excuse me." means "I am about to do something which is none of your business"

"Excuse me!" means "I'm going past so get out of the way or we will colide"

"Excuse me!" means "You have no right to be offended by what I just said"

"Excuse me!" means "you are an offensive little shitbag"

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quote:

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Originally posted by ken:
An well-brought-up English person is more likely to say "please" and "thank-you" to an animal, or even a machine, than they are to omit the words accidentally when talking to a human being.

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does anyone else occasionally say "thank you" when the hole in the wall presents them with cash ?
 

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Posted by Kenwritez (# 3238) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Chapelhead:
There just seems to be something about the British in particular that finds sex funny and embarrassing.

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quote:

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Originally posted by RuthW:
All of this obtains in the US as well. I can't see why you think any of the things you've said about intonation in spoken English is uniquely British.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Papa_Smurf:
does anyone else occasionally say "thank you" when the hole in the wall presents them with cash ?

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