Thread: Heaven: The Flirting Thread Redux Board: Limbo / Ship of Fools.


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Posted by Curiosus (# 4808) on :
 
Ladies and Gentlemen,

Regulars will recall that we had a thread in Heaven last year on How to Flirt.

Following on from recent postings on TDA, I have been persuaded by certain people (you know who you are!) that it is time to revive the Flirting Thread.

The purpose of the thread is provide a place for Expert Flirters to impart their wisdom about the mysteries of flirting to the rest of us. Eager students may ask questions and practise their Flirting Technique.

Let the flirting begin..............

[ 19. June 2005, 06:20: Message edited by: KenWritez ]
 

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Posted by Codepoet (# 5964) on :
 
Codepoet draws up a chair, and rubbing his thighs, sits down and eagerly looks around keen to learn.

 

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Posted by ChastMastr (# 716) on :
 
If the pictures of the person you see online seem to show a crazed or desperate maddened gleam in their eye, do not try to flirt with them. Even if you feel sorry for them, or think they might be a nice piece of rough trade, or a combination of both.

... no one else has this problem, do they? The cub is so much better than I am at saying, right off the bat, that they look insane, and I go unerringly for them right away...
 

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Posted by Esmeralda (# 582) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Codepoet:
Codepoet draws up a chair, and rubbing his thighs, sits down and eagerly looks around keen to learn.

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First rule of flirting: don't rub your thighs. It will make you look altogether too eager.

Second rule: don't rub anyone else's thighs either, until you are fairly sure they would like it.
 

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Posted by Glimmer (# 4540) on :
 
Is rubbing anything allowed? Or is it right out altogether? Been so long since I had a flirt. Or a rub, come to think of it.
 

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Posted by Go Anne Go (# 3519) on :
 
Once you've already got a good flirty conversation going, I would say that rubbing someone's hand can be a very flirtatious move.
 

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Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Go Anne Go:
Once you've already got a good flirty conversation going, I would say that rubbing someone's hand can be a very flirtatious move.

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quote:

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Originally posted by ChastMastr:
If the pictures of the person you see online seem to show a crazed or desperate maddened gleam in their eye, do not try to flirt with them. Even if you feel sorry for them, or think they might be a nice piece of rough trade, or a combination of both.

... no one else has this problem, do they? The cub is so much better than I am at saying, right off the bat, that they look insane, and I go unerringly for them right away...

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quote:

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Originally posted by Go Anne Go:
Once you've already got a good flirty conversation going, I would say that rubbing someone's hand can be a very flirtatious move.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Janine:
If the other person seems to be in a playful mood you could always try the Turning The Other's Palm Up On The Table To Trail Your Fingertips Lightly Over It While Pretending To Trace The Lines & Fortell Their Future move.

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Good heavens! I'd read either of those as a direct pass, rather than a flirt, and would never think of doing either (unless I was intending to, ahem, follow through). Is US culture perhaps more tactile than UK? Or am I just showing my lack of flirting skills again?
 

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Posted by Esmeralda (# 582) on :
 
Touching is so culturally conditioned, isn't it? I read about some research once ago about how many times two men touched each other in a conversation of the same length. In Brazil, I think, it was 88; in America or Britain, none.

So, if you happen to be a 'wave your hands around while you talk, and touch people for emphasis' sort of person, it's quite easy to pat someone's knee in the course of conversation, and accidentally leave it there (as I did once at a party, which led not long after to the man in question nibbling my earring off ).

But if you're not naturally a touching person, any move you make becomes so much more significant.

I'm personally a words person and a touchy person, so I use both in flirting (and before anyone leaps in and points out that I'm married, yes I know that. My husband is not the flirty type at all, so I have to get my excitement somewhere!)
 

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Posted by Ahleal V (# 8404) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Janine:
And there's the Shaking Hands Upon Meeting, Gently Clasping The Other Person's Hand In Both Of Yours And Giving It A Nice Pat.

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To be honest, I think it find that rather creepy!

I've always found lingering eye contact to work for me...and if it's going really badly there's always the 'helpless' smile.

x

AV
 

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Posted by Vikki Pollard (# 5548) on :
 
I'm beginning to think Janine is some pervy Anglican priest - she sure reminds me of someone I knew as a child... <thinks and shudders>

I think my GLE teachers frowned on flirting in any case. I'm darned sure clasping hands wasn't allowed till you were engaged.

'Superflirt' is a great book. But I'm disappointed as I've never experienced the 'Triangle' - where a guy looks you in the eyes, then at your lips, then flicks his gaze down and goes back to your eyes. Either I know too many Christians or they don't bother with the eyes and mouth gazing.
 

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Posted by Craigmaddie (# 8367) on :
 
I have to admit that I find "dating tips" as such just a shade creepy. In my mind such conscious attempts to reel in another person are connected with books (and I use that term very loosely) like The Rules which essentially advocate double-handedness and manipulation. Call me old-fashioned, but ain't it just better to be yourself and let the other person respond to something more resembling the real you?

No, it's never worked for me either...

From my own perspective as a male, I find the tragic incompatibility between men and women lies in how we initially respond to each other. Women almost seem to be genetically programmed to respond to "cocky confidence" in a man and so often hook up with men who don't give a flying toss about them. Conversely, as a man, I find that if I really like a certain woman then my social skills retard to that of a 5 year-old and I say things that will cause my cheeks to flush with shame for weeks afterwards. Of course, if I'm not terribly interested in them as a prospective partner then I can engage them in witty and amusing conversation without a flicker of nervousness on my part and very often succeed in unwittingly attracting them.

I'm sure someone up there must be enjoying themselves at our expense...
 

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Posted by Little Miss Methodist (# 4367) on :
 
I thought i'd post some tips that I learned from the film "Hitch" - about a guy who teaches men to flirt and be attractive to women, which I went to see last night with some friends.

Hitch's top tips:

• If a girl wants to kiss you at the door, she will play with her keys before unlocking the door.
  A girl who just unlocks the door isn't interested.
• Being confident will make her notice you more - don't be over confident, just sound at ease with yourself.
• Don't try to sound knowledgeable about something you know nothing about (even if its her favourite thing) - you'll get caught out and look dumb.
• Don't do any "mad" dancing. Girls don't like that.

These are the things I remember from the film - not my own suggestions, so they carry no endorsements!

Actually, the main tip in the film is to be yourself. Its a great film - made us laugh alot. The bit at the end is just great.

I think the keys thing is interesting, 'cause if I get walked to my front door by a guy (ie - never), i'd ask them in for a drink if I liked them, so would automatically unlock the door straightaway. Maybe it's a cultural thing?

I'm a hopeless flirt. I can flirt if I want to - as chaplain my students used to say that I could get whatever I wanted just by smiling the right way (its true ), however I can only do that when it doesn't really matter. As soon as I think I might like someone, I lose all flirting abilities, and try desperately to cover up any signs I might be giving out that I like them. Clearly this is a problem. Its not too bad - I do eventually relax, but I sometimes wonder how many opportunities I miss just because I don't think the person could possibly like me too, and an terrified of looking stupid and getting embarassed.

One last thing - one of the things Hitch does is google all the women he helps set up men with. Is this a general phenomenon?

LMM
 

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Posted by Vikki Pollard (# 5548) on :
 
Googling is fairly common. I have googled guys I've met online (on dating sites) if they have given me any personal info, for safety purposes. If they say they work at a Uni and there they are on the staff list, I somehow feel slightly happier!

Women almost seem to be genetically programmed to respond to "cocky confidence" in a man and so often hook up with men who don't give a flying toss about them.
NO!!!! No no NO. Though I must concede, lots of women DO seem to be attracted to total pillocks. I guess someone has to be.

Conversely, as a man, I find that if I really like a certain woman then my social skills retard to that of a 5 year-old and I say things that will cause my cheeks to flush with shame for weeks afterwards.
A lot of us find that very endearing - though we try not to think where the blood from your brain has rushed to...

Of course, if I'm not terribly interested in them as a prospective partner then I can engage them in witty and amusing conversation without a flicker of nervousness on my part and very often succeed in unwittingly attracting them.
Ogod. No wonder men find me 'easy to talk to'.

Damn, damn DAMN!!!
 

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Posted by Janine (# 3337) on :
 
I saw Hitch the other day, it was great. It's the sort of romantic comedy with some dramatic bits that actually engages my interest.

And the fact that the FG enjoyed Will Smith in Independence Day and the two MIB flicks and Fresh Prince of Bel Air just might get him to go with me to see it himself.

Some additional good points of that movie were also:

*strike a balance between originality and sturdy stable tradition

*don't be afraid to gracefully admit it when you've messed up

and

*do please Google thoroughly if you're going to Google at all!
 

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Posted by Corfe (# 633) on :
 

quote:

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Rat said:
I can't do flirting, so I will read with interest and hope to be educated.

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quote:

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selected words of Craigmaddie:
I have to admit that I find "dating tips" as such just a shade creepy....

.... as a man, I find that if I really like a certain woman then my social skills retard to that of a 5 year-old .... if I'm not terribly interested in them as a prospective partner then I can engage them in witty and amusing conversation without a flicker of nervousness on my part.

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Yes. I think I give in. I can't do it. And yet, I was drawn to this thread.

A question: How do you get within touching distance without them spotting you and running away?
 

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Posted by Sine Nomine (# 3631) on :
 
Hmm...well, in my experience:

Get just inside their personal space while you talk to them. Make constant eye contact and smile while you're doing it.

If they move in closer then it's OK to put your hand on their shoulder occasionally while you continue talking to them.

Maintain the eye contact and the smiling the whole time. Do not look away. Do not let them look away. But the eye contact must be accompanied by the smiling otherwise you'll come over as too aggressive.

At the end of the conversation, especially if it's in a church situation, give them a brief hug in Christian Love, subtly running your hand down their side as you disengage to check for the dreaded love handles.

It's best to know these things up front so you don't waste anymore time on them in the future.
 

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Posted by Go Anne Go (# 3519) on :
 
The rubbing of someone's hand I suppose could be a direct pass instead of just a flirty thing. Where does the line lie? A guy I was dating once greeted me this way all the time, rather than embarrass everyone by kissing me. I kinda liked it, and I found it real flirty.

As for the "suddenly develop social skills ofa five year old" it can be endearing to us gals. That is, once we figure out that's what it is. I went out on a date a couple of weeks ago, had a great time, and the guy walks me to the train stop at which point I actually thought to myself "why did his IQ drop 80 points just now?" Then I realized it was because it was the first kiss point of the evening. Oh goody. But it still took him a while to work up to it, and in the interim there was the dreaded.....
pat on the arm. (Cue ominous music.)

It said to me "oh, no, he dosn't want to kiss me, he just doesn't now how to exit the situation gracefully."

Which meant of course that when he did kiss me, it caught me totally offguard and I was not at my finest. Thankfully I am to be given a second chance. Whew!
 

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Posted by KenWritez (# 3238) on :
 
I remember two things that helped me enormously. (Hey, I was engaged three times before I found the SW, so I had to've been doing something right.)

1) Everyone loves the sound of their own name.

2) Everyone has a sign hanging around their neck: "Make me feel important."

Learn it, live it, love it.
 

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Posted by Craigmaddie (# 8367) on :
 
The mention of Googling people makes me suspect that in the near future someone will come along and create a wesbite in the style of Amazon or eBay where you can check out the ratings for a potential partner...

Craigmaddie - Avg. 2 1/2 Stars

2 Stars - "Wore white socks on our first date!"

3 Stars - "Nice guy - shame about the car..."

Stop the world I want to get off!
 

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Posted by Curiosus (# 4808) on :
 
I'm absolutely hopeless at recognising when guys are flirting with me. It never occurs to me that they're interested in anything more than the conversation we're having.

As for my flirting skills, the less said the better. I always feel so self conscious that I tend to avoid it at all costs with anyone that I fancy, just in case they aren't interested. So of course they assume that I'm not interested in them, with the inevitable result that nothing happens.

I think I'm going to have to start practising. A question. Is this flirting business as obvious and contrived as it feels?
 

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Posted by Sine Nomine (# 3631) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Curiosus:
Is this flirting business as obvious and contrived as it feels?

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Well, if it's not somewhat obvious it kinda misses the point, doesn't it?

As to contrived, not really, in my opinion. KenWritez is absolutely correct. If you like someone you need to let them know it. Of course it doesn't have to necessarily be a potential life-partner. It's amazing to me how much you can enrich your life if you just really focus on whomever you're talking to. Most people don't.

They're too busy worrying about how they're coming across or what they're going to say next to really listen to what the other person is saying. The quote I currently have tatooed on my forehead is "the first duty of love is to listen". I'd say it's the first duty of "like" also.

Essentially you've got to make them feel like they're they most important person in the world, at least for the duration of the conversation. And for God's sake, don't let your eyes wander while you're listening to them.
 

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Posted by Girl with the pearl earring (# 9151) on :
 
One of the tips I saw (for girls) on one of these 'improve your flirting skills/have a makeover/find your partner for life' programmes, which I've always remembered, (and use every now and then!) is to put your hand up near your cleavage/run it over the skin at the base of your neck when the guy you're with is talking, and move it away when he stops. Subconsciously (maybe even consciously!) he wants you to keep your hand there, so he keeps talking. It keeps conversation going!

I'm pretty hopeless at working out where guys are flirting with me - I frequently leave a pub with my friends and they all reckon that one of the guys we've been chatting with was coming onto me, and I never notice it. One night I was in the pub with my best mate, and some of ther friends, and didn't notice that the guy I was sitting next to was getting closer and closer to me until I nearly fell of the other side of my chair - I'd been edging away without even realising what was happening!

GWTPE x
 

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Posted by Vikki Pollard (# 5548) on :
 
What Curiosos said. All of it.

Let's face it, we're all DOOMED.

I find flirting that I have to plan or think about feels false. Apparently I do it naturally anyway. Just a shame that I have no idea whether the guy I'm with is seeing me that way (although given my point above re being easy to talk to, I think I'm right to assume usually not! lol)

Dammit, I want to be loved for ME, not for my ability to 'do the flirting right'.



I'm quite curious about when my Romantic Optimism will cave in under the weight of my Cynical Realism. At the moment I live balanced between the two, but I fear there's a window which will close one day - after which I'll just get more and more cats and spend more time practising the piano. Alone...
 

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Posted by Janine (# 3337) on :
 
Whether you're interviewing for a potential babysitter, or whether you're trying to pick a realtor, or whether you're meeting new people at a work-related party, or whether you're attending a family party to meet some cousin's new fiancee, or whether you're trying to get to know your kid's teacher, or whether you're trawling the bookstore for a potential date...

You offer yourself, conversationally I mean -- you offer your interest. And you find something interesting about the other person. And you build on that.

Is that flirting, or just conversation with panache?

If you want to build up the interpersonal side and downplay the potentially troublesome physical side, just be Jesus at them for a while.

The best film Jesus I ever saw managed to focus on the person He was talking to. To be there in that moment with them, right? That's how I always imagined Jesus.

That's how to be to collect new people into your life. Then go from there to cultivate the potential romances, IMO.
b
 

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Posted by Vikki Pollard (# 5548) on :
 
Maybe flirting has a sexual connotation for Brits that it don't for those who eat grits..?
 

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Posted by Curiosus (# 4808) on :
 
Never mind flirting, just talking seems to have different connotations in the UK. Everyone seems to assume that as soon as you talk to a guy you must be interested in him, or vice versa. There's so much pressure before anyone has had the chance just to become friends.
 

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Posted by Sine Nomine (# 3631) on :
 
No, there's a sexual undertone in the Grits Belt too. But you can make people feel special and attractive without there being any real intention of bedding them.

Lord knows women flirt with me all the time, I guess because it's "safe". I don't think they'd be very happy if I suddenly said "Your place or mine, Baby?"
 

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Posted by Vikki Pollard (# 5548) on :
 
Yes...

Well I'm going to a party tonight, so I promise to report back.

But... why am I not expecting to meet any possibles??

BTW I simply don't flirt if someone has a wedding ring or appears to be with someone. Maybe it's different for younger people but I have a horror of being 'improper'. Maybe that's different in the UK too - or is it just me?



<feeling less attractive by the minute>
 

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Posted by Vikki Pollard (# 5548) on :
 
The 'yes' was to the post before Sine!

A guy who visits our office (and is VERY married) tries it on with all the women - in jest. One week we decided I should appear to take him up on it, and we predicted how he'd respond.

LOLOLOLOL

Ran a mile.

In fact, even though he now knows I was joking, it does seem to have cured him. You can actually discuss work with him, now.

[ 12. March 2005, 12:00: Message edited by: Vikki Pollard ]
 

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Posted by Sine Nomine (# 3631) on :
 
Well, Janine's advice above is excellent. Try not to think about yourself. Of course Southern women are good at making people feel "special". It really is something they're brought up to do. (Or at least used to be, in some circles.)

You know, you can never go wrong with picking lint off of a man's lapel. I'm not joking. Do not, however, do it to a married man.
 

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Posted by Vikki Pollard (# 5548) on :
 
I don't think about myself. Which is why I'm supposed to be 'good fun'.

I know about the lint - however that comes under my 'forced moves' list and I'm sure if I did that to someone he would just think I was a nit-picker.

I'm beginning to think there is more of a cultural difference here than I suspected. In my part of the UK it is only good manners to be as Janine describes. Visitors from the South comment on our being anything fromm 'friendly' to 'overfamiliar'. Certainly anyone talking as Janine does, from my part of the country would, however, be seen as extremely sexualised. We just don't interpret every interaction in terms of how good we've made someone feel about themselves, although we are very likely to know all about our travelling companions' bowel habits or divorce within five minutes of meeting them.

I was genuinely taught in my GLE circles that some of the behaviour described on here would be 'leading people on' - not that I think that now, but I wonder what US GLEs are taught...?
 

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Posted by Sine Nomine (# 3631) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Vikki Pollard:
I was genuinely taught in my GLE circles that some of the behaviour described on here would be 'leading people on' - not that I think that now, but I wonder what US GLEs are taught...?

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Well sometimes it is leading people on.

I've had a bit of a puzzlement with a guy at church about that. As best I can tell he's saying "I think you're hot and I'd like to go to bed with you, but it will have to be in an alternate universe since I've got a lover in this one."

It's still fun though.
 

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Posted by Vikki Pollard (# 5548) on :
 
It's fun when someones feeling strong.

It's NOT fun when someone's feeling lonely.

I never know how people are feeling, so...

Anyway bless ya honey, you have fun!!
 

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Posted by Esmeralda (# 582) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Vikki Pollard:
I know about the lint - however that comes under my 'forced moves' list and I'm sure if I did that to someone he would just think I was a nit-picker.

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No Vikki, she said lint . Picking nits off someone would just be gross.

I'm with LMM, I've always been a natural flirt when it didn't much matter (though I tried not to give encouragement to unwanteds). But as soon as I really fancied someone I would go all inept and say entirely the wrong things.

Probably a good thing, these days, as Spouse™ doesn't need to worry! (though I did accidentally have an email 'romance' with someone I really like, a couple of years ago, which was very unsettling and traumatic - and I told Spouse™ all about it, and he was OK with it). Which leads me to ask:

Is it easier to flirt by email?

[ 12. March 2005, 13:56: Message edited by: Esmeralda ]
 

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Posted by Sine Nomine (# 3631) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Esmeralda:
(though I did accidentally have an email 'romance' with someone I really like, a couple of years ago, which was very unsettling and traumatic...).

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quote:

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Essentially you've got to make them feel like they're they most important person in the world, at least for the duration of the conversation. And for God's sake, don't let your eyes wander while you're listening to them.

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quote:

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Picking nits off someone

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What Vikki said made me think this too. Maybe it would be good advice for gorillas wanting to broaden their social horizons.

The fluff-picking just makes me think of a mother smoothing ruffled hair or wiping the nose of a 6 year old son.
 

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Posted by Vikki Pollard (# 5548) on :
 
I think I'd rather have someone pick nits off me than wipe my nose...

So - generally NOT a good move with British men, the lint-picking.

OK.

Apparently this party is a Karaoke so I get to embarrass Lucy. Not that I've ever tried karaoke, but I can sing. Although I'm driving so it'll be on water. Maybe not a good idea. There again, beats hell out of lint-picking.
 

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Posted by The Lady of the Lake (# 4347) on :
 
I agree that 'advice' on this subject is a little bit odd, as if we should try to behave differently from how we really are.
I don't think people need to flirt to show that they are attracted to someone. In some cultures people are just incredibly, disarmingly polite to the person they like and smile a lot and look at their face as much as possible.
I can certainly identify with repressing behaviour if I do actually like someone, but that's often because we become friends anyway.

 

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Posted by Esmeralda (# 582) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Sine Nomine:

quote:

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Originally posted by Esmeralda:
(though I did accidentally have an email 'romance' with someone I really like, a couple of years ago, which was very unsettling and traumatic...).

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As parenthetical sentences go, that's a pretty good one. Especially the "accidentally" part.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Vikki Pollard:
They approached from behind before I could give any flirting signal at all (not even that - I was sitting down).

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Apparently you're a living, breathing "flirting signal".
 

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Posted by Janine (# 3337) on :
 
I want to know just how the two guys groped you when you were sitting down.

Just exactly what did they grope?

And were they working the room in tandem?

And if they came from behind and decided on you, you must be a real looker -- they decided on you based on your rear view...

And why would conversation with a tone-deaf midget mean you are gonna stay single? 'Splain yourself!

I've been married just about 24 years now, so must have forgotten a lot about such parties.
 

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Posted by Vikki Pollard (# 5548) on :
 
According to Lucy I 'always look glamorous'.

We try...
 

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Posted by Scots lass (# 2699) on :
 

quote:

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Sine wrote:
Essentially you've got to make them feel like they're they most important person in the world, at least for the duration of the conversation.

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Absolutely! I used to know a guy who, every time I spoke to him, used to make me go away feeling really special and as if he fancied me. He didn't, and I knew he didn't, but it was only later that I realised it was because when he spoke to women he made them feel like they were the only woman in the world! It was fantastic .

What I need is advice on how to read subtle signals! From guys who I know already, rather than guys I meet in a pub, where generally it's pretty obvious. So, subtle guys, how do you flirt with your friends who you might like? I sometimes wonder if I've missed out by not reading signals and so not giving the response I would have done if asked outright !
 

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Posted by share a ferret (# 8975) on :
 
I'd like to know that too! I've got this friend that I've liked for...I don't know...maybe nearly two years! And I always act as normal as possible around him because I'm scared that if he thought I fancied him it would just make things wierd!!
 

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Posted by The Lady of the Lake (# 4347) on :
 

quote:

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The mention of Googling people makes me suspect that in the near future someone will come along and create a wesbite in the style of Amazon or eBay where you can check out the ratings for a potential partner...

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There's always this site. I seem to remember Off Centre View put his pic on there recently and some of us rated him...
 

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Posted by Craigmaddie (# 8367) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Vikki Pollard:
But I think my fate as a single woman was sealed when I was (and this is the absolute truth) chatted up by a tone-deaf, drunken midget.

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quote:

---

Originally posted by The Lady of the Lake:

quote:

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The mention of Googling people makes me suspect that in the near future someone will come along and create a wesbite in the style of Amazon or eBay where you can check out the ratings for a potential partner...

---

There's always this site. I seem to remember Off Centre View put his pic on there recently and some of us rated him...

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quote:

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What I need is advice on how to read subtle signals! From guys who I know already, rather than guys I meet in a pub, where generally it's pretty obvious.

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See now, we guys are very well practised at masking our feelings. We also don't do subtlety very well. If a guy likes you, either he will be extremely obvious about it, or he will hide it so well it will be impossible to tell. The other problem is that what might be a "sign" from one guy, from another guy will just be "being friendly". So unless you get your friend to pass notes to his friend at play time, there's no way to tell. And even that might not work.
 

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Posted by Emma. (# 3571) on :
 
guys huh! How do they think women are going to find out if they like them then?!
 

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Posted by Captain Caveman (# 3980) on :
 
telepathy
 

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Posted by Emma. (# 3571) on :
 
darn it seems I missed that one

(I always wanted to be like counsellor troy (thats the right one isnt it?) that knew peoples emotions and all that )
 

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Posted by Codepoet (# 5964) on :
 
It is easy to tell which guys fancy you - it is the ones that pull your hair on the playground.
 

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Posted by Corfe (# 633) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Emma.:
guys huh! How do they think women are going to find out if they like them then?!

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quote:

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Originally posted by Codepoet:
It is easy to tell which guys fancy you - it is the ones that pull your hair on the playground.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Kelly Alves:

quote:

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Originally posted by Codepoet:
It is easy to tell which guys fancy you - it is the ones that pull your hair on the playground.

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Ok since I am a big flop at picking up boy signals I got one for you--

I am having a pleasant,somewhat intimate conversation with a man, in a rather businesslike setting. The convesation lulls. Eye contact is made. Gentleman gives me long, hard stare, gulps, then goes on a brief stroppy tirade about the choice of soda I made.

Is that kind of like the hair-pulling thing?

---

Exactly the same! Make your move and quickly!
 

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Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :
 
Ah, this was a couple years ago. Beginning to learn, though.
 

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Posted by IngoB (# 8700) on :
 
Flirting? Hmmm... 1) Enjoy what you are doing, be comfortable in your surroundings, and then focus on the interesting person as a bonus. I find I'm most successful when I'm clearly in full swing with whatever may be going on, and then direct much (but not all) of my attention to the special person. And you must mean it, i.e., if the person doesn't react when attention is turned to them, switch back and enjoy the party (or whatever).

2) Hook, line, and sinker - bait helps. First goal must be a "hook", find something that will lead to a second meeting. A shared interest is good, but prosaic stuff like asking for help on something works well too. Then feed them "line": find opportunities for more time together, drop them an email, ask if they want to check out this weekend market together, etc. Finally, you need a "sinker" - do not let it stay on the merely "friendly" level for long. At some stage you need to risk a bit more. I find non-verbal signals way better than talking to get more serious. Finally, "bait" does help. My personal "bait" is (a) very "sensitive" hands (inherited from my mum). If I can get hold of her hands, I can work some magic. And if I can give a proper massage, well, ... (b) I've read a lot of (classic) Japanes love poetry and I'm decent (so I'm told) at writing my own in that style. Works well. Another killer skill, which I do not have but which my brother uses with amazing results, is cooking. Find and hone your own "bait" skill.

3) Are you ready? Are you realistic? My success at flirting and dating improved dramatically once I actually meant it. Before that, I tended to lust a lot after girls/women which - upon reasonable reflection - simply were bad "targets". Like those who had a boyfriend/partner. Or women who were clearly aiming at a different sort of guy (as evidenced by whom they were running after!). If you find yourself "unlucky" most of the time, consider whether that's because you subconsciously are choosing "low percentage" chances. Further, reflect all your "expectations" back onto yourself. If you are looking for an intelligent woman, with good sense of humor and a fantastic body - well, are you intelligent, good humored and have a fantastic body? Really? There's no particular reason why your partner should be less choosy than you. So - cut them at least as much slack as you need yourself.

4) Don't go for the princess, go for the maid. If you are aiming for everybody's darling, you will be competing with - everybody. Which presumably is great fun and perhaps satisfying if you "win", but you wouldn't be reading this if you were Casanova, would you? There's lots and lots of great people out there who are not in the top ten of the universal popularity contest. Finding someone special is not equivalent to finding someone who appears special to everybody. There's a tendency at parties for most people to cluster around a few "chosen ones". That tunnel vision is detrimental. Not all that glitters is gold.
 

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Posted by Gort (# 6855) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by IngoB:[...]
There's a tendency at parties for most people to cluster around a few "chosen ones"...

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Vikki Pollard:
Dammit, I want to be loved for ME, not for my ability to 'do the flirting right'.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by KenWritez:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Vikki Pollard:
Dammit, I want to be loved for ME, not for my ability to 'do the flirting right'.

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This is the whole problem in a nutshell, and illustrates the misconsception about flirting... Every single facet of flirting has this as its foundation: "You are interesting to me."

Flirting is not about you. Flirting is about the other person...

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by The Coot:
Oh, to hell with it. I think you should just go for a good old aussie attempt:

"G'day, Sheila. How about a root?"

---

I've had mixed success with with that one. Make sure you iron your VB (or Fosters if you've no taste whatsoever) t-shirt before trying it though.

Needless to say I'm not keen on sarsaparilla anymore.

 

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Posted by Vikki Pollard (# 5548) on :
 
Nothing wrong with being tone-deaf as long as your opening gambit isn't, "I DID DAMN GOOD, DINNIIII? <grab for table and miss>

However flirty a Yorkshirewoman is, there's no way she's going to say you sang well if she's musical and you didn't.

I think there may be a certain misconsception here akin to the thread where people spent two pages trying to cheer my up about my non-existent depression about the past.

FACTS.
1) I know HOW to flirt. Just for me personally the 'harder stuff' comes under my personal category of game-playing. This is because
2) I have been led on (yes, seen AND responded) so many times by men who later casually mentioned their Significant Others (one a LOT later, after a couple of dates) that yes, maybe I am slightly damaged, I'll grant you. however it has left me with
3) a horror of flirting and being taken up on it by an attached guy. Of COURSE this leads to
4) ambiguous signals BUT IMHO this is better than
5) encouraging some guy to cheat on someone, or
6) inadvertenly leading on some guy 'to make him feel good' and then buggering off and leaving someone wondering what the hell went wrong.

OK I'll admit to a certain jaded slant to that - but heck, I have seen affairs at work, been offered affairs on several occasions, know hardly any single guys, seen a lot of people REALLY SERIOUSLY HURT and moreover, now know through experience that even someone who tells you he's single might not be.

Do you know what? I'm going to stick my neck out here to pump a little adrenalin into this thread and ask you how you draw the line between flirting and prick-teasing when you have no idea whether you are with someone emotionally vulnerable or not.

Perhaps it's being in my forties - Im sure it wasnt like this at 20. Possibly I know an inordinate number of guys I care too much about to lead them on. I know I had this discussion with one on here and he agreed with what I've just said but, interestingly, wasn't certain he wanted to post on here.

So let's up the ante.

Convince me this is loving Christian behaviour. `
 

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Posted by Esmeralda (# 582) on :
 
I can't do that, because I'm not sure it is. There's flirting and flirting... I think there's a kind of mild flirting that is entirely harmless, where you both know it's just a heightened, lighthearted form of conversation. Maybe that's the kind of flirting every girl needs to do with her Dad in her teens (and every boy with his Mum?).

Then there's 'over the line' flirting, which gives the message that there's a real possibility of a romantic relationship. That's the dangerous sort, if one partner is not serious or not available. And it's so easy for one sort to slide over into the other...

Since honesty is a Christian virtue, maybe it's best either to be very sure where you draw the line, or not to flirt at all. I know my story of the 'accidental email romance' above was put in a humorous manner, but actually it caused me a lot of pain (though apparently it caused the man concerned, who had just separated from his second wife, to feel wanted and valuable).

My problem has always been that deep down, I don't believe anyone I like would like me. So I've always flirted in the hope of getting even a tiny response. And sometimes got more than I bargained for.
 

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Posted by Vikki Pollard (# 5548) on :
 
Aw, Esmerelda. I bet loads of people can empathise with that one. I certainly can.

Just as men get confused by the difference between what women SAy they want in a man (New Man, Sensitive) and the ones they assume all women end up with (Neanderthal Serial Cheats), I find it very difficult when guys say they don't go for 'Game Players'. But I suspect there's a fair mix of fear, lack of self-esteem and extreme generalisation going on here!
 

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Posted by Vikki Pollard (# 5548) on :
 
Er, that's ON THE THREAD, not (just) in my head!!lol
 

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Posted by Craigmaddie (# 8367) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Vikki Pollard:
Just as men get confused by the difference between what women SAy they want in a man (New Man, Sensitive) and the ones they assume all women end up with (Neanderthal Serial Cheats), I find it very difficult when guys say they don't go for 'Game Players'. But I suspect there's a fair mix of fear, lack of self-esteem and extreme generalisation going on here!

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Esmeralda:
I can't do that, because I'm not sure it is. There's flirting and flirting... I think there's a kind of mild flirting that is entirely harmless, where you both know it's just a heightened, lighthearted form of conversation. Maybe that's the kind of flirting every girl needs to do with her Dad in her teens (and every boy with his Mum?).

Then there's 'over the line' flirting, which gives the message that there's a real possibility of a romantic relationship. That's the dangerous sort, if one partner is not serious or not available. And it's so easy for one sort to slide over into the other...

---

The trouble is, that I'm not sure that everyone can tell the difference, or would have the same definitions of what is just mild fun and what is 'real' flirting.

I think the 'mild fun' stuff is OK with people you already know well, but even that could be potentially dangerous with people you've only recently met.
 

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Posted by 3M Matt (# 1675) on :
 
The purpose of flirting is not to "pull", it's merely to give the other person a "heads up" that you're interested.

Once you've done that, you're on your own. No technique can help you. Either you're personality will be attractive to the person you are persuing or it won't.

The aim of flirting is to provide a quick "filter" to find out who may be receptive and respond positively if you make a move on them and ask them on a date.


Either they will respond positively..in which case just stop with the flirting and ask them out..or they will respond negatively, in which case, try a nother couple of gentle probes, and then give up. If they reject more than 3 subtle advances, they are either inept at reading social signals or else they are just not interested in you.

So, how to give them the "heads up"? Well, subtlety is the key. Invading their personal space in a gentle way is the classic indicator. If they are happy to let you do so, they are interested, if not, you're out of luck, move on.

A gentle touch on the elbow with eye contact and smile as you say "hello" is probably enough to get a reliable positive or negative response.

However, in the 21st century, there is a new even more reliable way to flirt and get that all important red or green light to ask the person out.

FLIRT TEXTING.

Here is a proven method to determine, with minimum embarrassment, whether or not someone is interested in you. It's all in how you "sign off" your texts, and in how they respond.

You start by signing texts just with your name. Then, try putting a "x" after your name, if they respond likewise when they text back..add an extra kiss on the next text. If their reply has either two or three kisses on it, then sign your text "Love <name> xx " And see if they respond in kind.

other step ups include signing off with "Love ya", and finally "Love you," (plus the obligatory x x x)

It's important to note that the key to whether you are onto a winner here is whether your target responds with a higher level of intensity of affection or the same, or lower.

Some people, women in particular, always put "xx" on their texts...so, when you "step up" the intensity, you have to look for any "value added" over and above what you demonstrated in your texts in the replies.

Consider these two examples:

EMMA AND PAUL.

Paul sends an SMS to Emma..adding "xx" to his name, as a first flirting step:
"Hi, gr8 2 c u the other day. hopefully next week c ya again? Paul xx"

Emma replies:
"Yeah, woz gud. Might be busy next week, we'll c! love ya Em x x x x"

Paul, encouraged by the intensity of response, increases his own intensity. (were he an expert in "reading" text flirts, he would immediately spot that Emma's response is TOO positive to indicate genuine flirtation. She's just naturally very "Friendly" in her text writing style)

"Oh well, txt bk & let me know if you're free k? Love you 2! Paul x x x x x "

(This is an extremely aggressive gambit...the "wink" is the highest possible level of text flirtation, especially when combined with the extra kiss...it's the biggest possible head's up.)

Emma, spots this, and, as she is not interested in Paul replies with the following:

"Yeah, I will do, anywayz better get on with my Essay for uni! Em x"

Ouch. Stinging. Here, Emma clearly declines the gambit, giving Paul nothing back but a sympathy "x". Paul mis-read her inital "positive" signs as being flirtacious, when in fact that was just Emma's normal texting manner.

Let us consider a second scenario:

JACK AND JILL

Jill's first text is purely functional:

"Hi Jack, was gr8 2 c everyone last night. Just wondered, did u find a scarf? Think I left it in the pub. Jill."

Jack decideds to flirt a little by adding some affection to his sign off, a couple of kisses and a "love" make the point:

"Hey, Jill. yeah, woz gud, and gr8 2 c u after so long!! No, sorry, but I think Alice may have done? I'll ask her 4 u. Love Jack. xx"

Jill's response, although less intense than Jack's intial gambit, is in fact a step in the right direction from her previous texts...she adds two kisses:

"aww...would you? Thanks! Maybe c u tomorrow then. Jill xx"

Jack is probably onto a winner here, provided he doesn't push to far too fast.

And that's it, all there is to flirting in the 21st century in a nutshell. Comments?

[ 14. March 2005, 12:04: Message edited by: 3M Matt ]
 

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Posted by Curiosus (# 4808) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by 3M Matt:

And that's it, all there is to flirting in the 21st century in a nutshell. Comments?

---

Flirt texting hadn't even occurred to me until I read Matt's post. Now there's something else for me to worry about.

Going back to proper flirting, what do Shipmates think about flirting with someone when the flirter hasn't quite made up their mind whether they're interested in the flirtee? From time to time I've met really lovely guys at parties etc and have been tempted to flirt with them whilst I'm getting to know them. However, I always end up avoiding flirting just in case I decide that I'm not interested as I'd hate to lead anyone on. Am I being silly? (OK, more silly than usual......)
 

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Posted by Vikki Pollard (# 5548) on :
 
Oh, flirt texting is ancient! The current trend seems to be that guys wind up the girls with more and more signals, then take it back down again (at least this is the complaint of daughters and friends!).

quote:

---

The purpose of flirting is not to "pull", it's merely to give the other person a "heads up" that you're interested.

---

Ah - but not according to the earlier posts on this thread. See, this is where I part company with those. If I assume it's all harmless fun, but end up playing with someone who thinks the above (and I agree with it, BTW) then you're in trouble.

I don't think there's anything wrong with flirting as you check someone out - in principle. What's wrong with it from MY point of view is that lots of guys indulge in that to check me out whilst forgetting the important things. Like their wives and children. Otherwise, though, I'd say flirting at a party and having a light, fun chat with someone where you know you're both checking each other out - nothing wrong at all with that. IMHO
 

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Posted by The Lady of the Lake (# 4347) on :
 
Ken Writez, your post is a gem.
It's confusing all this stuff about flirting being about oneself and therefore inherently manipulative. It reminds me of the view that we shouldn't make an effort re: presentation and appearance as this would mean someone was not attracted to the 'inner me'. I'm afraid I find that view a little frumpish and unhelpful, even though I can see where it's coming from.

Re: text flirting strikes me as a bit creepy - internet sites are enough of a handful. I recently had a rather dodgy (Christian) man send me a row of 'x's telling me how he wanted us to be lovers, etc. Maybe the row was just to dispel ANY feminine apprehension that 'x' is just an innocent signature for greeting, but I don't use it with people I've never met.
 

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Posted by Vikki Pollard (# 5548) on :
 
Frumpish, MOI?!

lol

Well I'm DEFINITELY helpful anyway...


 

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Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by KenWritez:

Now, a caveat; the draw the other feels for you may not be enough for them to consider pursuing you romantically or even liking you, but if you never try, you'll never know, and no one bats .1000.*

-------
*Baseball expression, means no one is perfect.

---

quote:

---

Craigmaddie:
she said that I should try to be less "nice" and a bit more of a "bastard" when it comes to women.

---

This is the equivalent of an alcoholic telling you how wonderfully interesting you'd be if you drank more.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
Pardon my ignorance but shouldn't "perfect" batting be 1.000, not .1000? Heck, some pitchers can hit one-in-ten!

---

Erk. Yes, it should be 1.000. My bad. Chalk it up to posting after driving all day.

Vikki, I hope I didn't come across as jumping up and down on you, I was responding to the "I've gotta be me" thing.

Something else about flirting I've learned from a related field, from when I was a salesman. When someone is talking about something they love, something they enjoy, they have a much larger emotional investment in the conversation. If you find someone you want to flirt with, ask them about their hobbies or about what is important to them, and then allow them time and discussion for those things. When a pause comes up, here's the magic phrase: "Tell me more."

(If it helps, pretend you're an actor on stage and your role is that of a flirt who's trying to find out about the objay du flirt.)

I'll copy 3M's format here:

You: "1drful! Y R u here @ party?"
Objay du flirt: "Why are you talking like a text message?"
You: "Sorry, wrong post. I meant to ask, 'How do you spend your time when you're not counting fish brains?'"
OduF: "Ohh, I like occasionally messing about with my cyclotron and creating new elements, but most of the time I dance the polka."
You: "How long have you been dancing the polka?"
OduF: "Since I was wee."
You: "I'm not familiar with the polka, but it sounds interesting. Would you please tell me more about it and why you like it?"

When in conversation, most people listen to what the other person is saying primarily to wait for a cue to break in with their own observations, opinions, anecdotes, whathaveyou. When you make the other person's conversation more important than your own, that goes a long, loooooong way toward making you interesting to the other person, because hardly anyone is willing to relinquish getting their own words into the majority of the conversation.

quote:

---

The always excellent VikkiP:
how you draw the line between flirting and prick-teasing when you have no idea whether you are with someone emotionally vulnerable or not.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by The Lady of the Lake:

But I do think that the view that flirting is inherently self-centred and manipulative is. Of course it can be so depending on the intentions of the flirt.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Vikki Pollard:
Really I think we're talking semantics and I think there are several ways to flirt.

---

I agree entirely. And would add that there are enormous individual variations in flirting, and that context is extremely important.

One thing that hasn't been discussed on this thread is the variations in people's personal charisma. I've known several people who had so much personal charisma that even when they weren't trying to make you feel like you were the only person in the world when they talked to you, that's how you felt.

Another thing that I think should qualify some of the advice is that the same gesture does not always mean the same thing. Some people habitually touch others when they talk to them and don't mean a thing by it, not even casual flirtation. Others almost never touch people when in conversation, and of course lots of people fall somewhere in between those two extremes. If you don't know the person, it can be hard to interpret what touching might mean.

Same thing goes the other way around for the person being touched. If I strike up a conversation with a man I don't know, it is quite enough that he shows interest in talking with me--I don't want him to touch me. I dislike being touched by strangers, even if they're attractive men with whom I might share interests. So someone following some of the advice about touching given on this thread would be going wrong with me.
 

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Posted by Vikki Pollard (# 5548) on :
 

 

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Posted by aj (# 1383) on :
 
RuthW, I'd be interested (curiously and not sarcastically) to see how you tackle the discussion on personal charisma.

Is it something that we can gauge in ourselves? Not sure about that. Do we see, say, female friends, taken in by a guy's `charisma', when we ourselves can see straight through it as being shallow (and maybe it is sincere but in our own cynicism/jealousy/protective nature/etc....)
 

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Posted by Vikki Pollard (# 5548) on :
 
Absolutely. This is at the core of the 'Nobody wants a Nice Guy' myth. (Sure I do!)

Women also suffer daily as they see their man-eating friends and colleagues snap up men who gaze at them like puppies, knowing all too well that those poor guys will be minced by the end of the week.


 

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Posted by sewanee_angel (# 2908) on :
 
Ok, flirting experts, please advise me on the situation below.

I've had a series of conversations (over the course of several months) with a guy in my building. Topics of conversation are usually but not exclusively our dogs, the incompetent leasing office, work, and the local uni sports. Both of us have initiated conversations and some have lasted 15-20 minutes (we're not talking smile and wave as you pass in the stairwell). I know he lives alone and he knows I live alone. He has never mentioned a girlfriend (there have been clear times to mention her, if she existed) but I've never picked up on any potential romantic interest in me. However, I'd have to be hit by the clue train before I'd pick up the clue.

Have we been flirting with each other or not?
 

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Posted by Alan Cresswell (# 31) on :
 
This was a related story to an online news item about the Mystery Worshipper product that will no doubt be very useful here ...

Online flirting will send you straight to Hell.
 

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Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by sewanee_angel:
Ok, flirting experts, please advise me on the situation below.

I've had a series of conversations (over the course of several months) with a guy in my building. Topics of conversation are usually but not exclusively our dogs, the incompetent leasing office, work, and the local uni sports. Both of us have initiated conversations and some have lasted 15-20 minutes (we're not talking smile and wave as you pass in the stairwell). I know he lives alone and he knows I live alone. He has never mentioned a girlfriend (there have been clear times to mention her, if she existed) but I've never picked up on any potential romantic interest in me. However, I'd have to be hit by the clue train before I'd pick up the clue.

Have we been flirting with each other or not?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Vikki Pollard:
I'm going to stick my neck out here to pump a little adrenalin into this thread and ask you how you draw the line between flirting and prick-teasing when you have no idea whether you are with someone emotionally vulnerable or not.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Vikki Pollard:
Absolutely. This is at the core of the 'Nobody wants a Nice Guy' myth.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by aj:
RuthW, I'd be interested (curiously and not sarcastically) to see how you tackle the discussion on personal charisma.

Is it something that we can gauge in ourselves? Not sure about that. Do we see, say, female friends, taken in by a guy's `charisma', when we ourselves can see straight through it as being shallow (and maybe it is sincere but in our own cynicism/jealousy/protective nature/etc....)

---

Charisma isn't always shallow. Some people are extremely attractive to lots of other people because they really do think you're the only person in the world when they're talking to you. There is a false charisma, though, the sleazy used-car sales sort of thing, which does fool some people, or else sleazy sales types wouldn't use it, and if that's what you're seeing through as "shallow," more power to you.

And sorry, ken, but I really must take issue with your claim that the "nobody wants a nice guy" myth is true. I'm sure it seems that way to a lot of nice guys. And there are certainly plenty of women with serious issues who are falling for the bad boys again and again. It's just as disheartening to see men fall for shallow users and goldbrickers and women with more care for their hair than the men they're with. But I know far more women who truly want a nice guy than otherwise. I have never been interested in bad boys. I briefly dated one just out of morbid curiosity, but every man I have been really interested in has been a board-certified Nice Guy™. Hands up, all women on this thread who prefer nice guys.
 

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Posted by Glimmer (# 4540) on :
 
Here's another Agony Aunt letter to the Flirting Experts.
I'm not a kissy huggy person with people I only know as 'acquaintances', so a handshake is fine by me for Passing The Peace and similar. However, there are two women I know (one a fairly close colleague in church and one a client's secretary) who always kiss me directly on the lips. Both are married. I don't know what passes for normal currency amongst kissy huggy people so should I not pay any attention or should I be careful not to unwittingly encourage intimacy of the wrong sort. I get on with them well and always make my best efforts to be happy and well behaved.
Is the outer thicko Glimmer not reading neon signs or is inner lusty Glimmer imagining things?
 

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Posted by RuthW (# 13) on :
 
Not a Flirting Expert, but ...

ick.

[Edit: I hasten to add, "ick" refers to kisses on the lips from married people, not to you, Glimmer.]

[ 15. March 2005, 17:05: Message edited by: RuthW ]
 

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Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 
Our church is huggy but not kissy. Some newcomers misunderstand but their peers ask them to watch what others do and when in Rome as it were...

As far as these ladies are concerned I recommend you take the initiative. Move towards them but on final approach move sharp left and give the luvvy "mwah" non-kiss to cheek instead, very quietly.

Good luck.
 

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Posted by share a ferret (# 8975) on :
 
Well i'm a very kissy/huggy person, but i generally don't kiss friends on the lips. I do on the cheek sometimes, but not usually on the lips. There is however, one exception. A girl i know is even more kissy/huggy than me, and we kiss on the lips when we meet/part, but there is nothing in it, we are not at all interested in each other in anyway.

To be honest, i think you have to decide for yourself what they mean by it, because for some people it is normal, for others it is not. I would just check to see if they kiss other people or whether it's just you, i think that could give away their intentions.
 

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Posted by Glimmer (# 4540) on :
 
Thanks, everyone!
Just going out to a Cursillo reunion so I shall practice my swerving. Better safe than sorry.
 

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Posted by sewanee_angel (# 2908) on :
 
Glimmer, I'll raise Ruth's ick. I'm more of a touchy type person but kisses on lips from another person's spouse crosses all sorts of lines for me.

raises hand Vikki, I'm another girl who really does want to go out with a nice (I'll add funny) guy. I've never gone out with a "bad boy."
 

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Posted by Vikki Pollard (# 5548) on :
 
Ken, it referred to 'charisma'.

Glimmer - ICK to the Nth! Is this person English? I used to practise my swerves (to no avail) on a dear old Canadian lady who puckered up and smackered everyone who came near. Bleurgh.

<BREAKING NEWS>
I am currently exchanging e-mails with a guy from a dating site. He has just mail-flirted!
(A kiss on the end of his third mail).

Be still, my beating heart.

So tell me - is there anyone on here who finds it flattering if people blow cyber kisses at you when they have no idea what you're really like?

Mwaa mwaa everyone.

[ 15. March 2005, 21:29: Message edited by: Vikki Pollard ]
 

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Posted by The Lady of the Lake (# 4347) on :
 
Well I find it silly if someone sends 'X's to a woman they've never met. I seem to get silly opening lines/emails though. IRL nobody would come up to me and say things like 'Hi babe girl, beloved I believe we should hook up', etc. as if I don't really have a name, for God's sake . The other extreme happens too, e.g. 'I would like to discuss process theology with you' . Online nothing beats just being nice to people and taking an interest in them, I reckon.
 

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Posted by 3M Matt (# 1675) on :
 

quote:

---

<BREAKING NEWS>
I am currently exchanging e-mails with a guy from a dating site. He has just mail-flirted!
(A kiss on the end of his third mail).

---

And how did you reply Vikki? If you're interested you should "see him and raise him.." up the stakes and send two or three kisses back.

I feel I should write a book on this...I could be on Richard and Judy.
 

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Posted by Vikki Pollard (# 5548) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by The Lady of the Lake:
'I would like to discuss process theology with you'

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
Our church is huggy but not kissy. Some newcomers misunderstand but their peers ask them to watch what others do and when in Rome as it were...

As far as these ladies are concerned I recommend you take the initiative. Move towards them but on final approach move sharp left and give the luvvy "mwah" non-kiss to cheek instead, very quietly.

Good luck.

---

Ha. Here, everyone is kissy. It's like a head start! The first thing you do when you meet someone new at church is swap names and kiss them. I think it's a great custom.



of course, it can be a double-edged sword, but i easily avoid the downside of having to kiss unattractive people by saying how frightfully british i am, and i couldn't possibly kiss a stranger.

and then you can start to read all kinds of things into the perfunctory double-sided "luvvy" kisses...

"was it me, or did she linger a little tiny bit?" kind of thing...


 

---

Posted by Paul Mason (# 7562) on :
 
The "Nice Guys Don't Get the Girl" thing reminded me of this post from one of my old sparring partners in alt.tv.buffy-v-slayer. I was rather prone to believing this but Rose certainly made me think.

Short version for those averse to clicking links - "nice guys" aren't alway nice just bad in other ways, and genuinely nice guys do get the girl but not necessarily the leggy buxom blonde of their dreams.

(None of which is true of Ken I'm sure )
 

---

Posted by Rat (# 3373) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Exiled Youth:
Ha. Here, everyone is kissy.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Rat:
So imagine my shock when, just at a moment when my attention had wandered, a large Belgian woman in a fur coat launched herself at me with no warning and planted a big smacking kiss on me. I nearly fainted. Then a second took me equally by surprise from the other side. The third and fourth I managed to handle with a modicum of dignity, since by that time I'd worked out what was going on.

I'm pretty sure they weren't try to flirt with me, though.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Exiled Youth:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Rat:

Then a second took me equally by surprise from the other side. The third and fourth I managed to handle with a modicum of dignity, since by that time I'd worked out what was going on.

---

I think you might be right there....you obviously weren't "frightfully British" enough! But four kisses -- it could be flirting, it could be Belgian custom!

---

Ah, I wasn't clear. It was four Belgian ladies who kissed me once each, not four kisses from one Belgian lady.

I'm not sure which would be more disconcerting to an uptight Scottish lass.
 

---

Posted by dj_ordinaire (# 4643) on :
 
The only time I attended an RC Mass in Belgium (again, don't ask what I was doing there) I remember no such thing. A few people in nearby pews shook hands, but of women launching themselves at me, nary a one.

So, either Rat does have a powerful affect on the Christians of the low countries, or it was just because I was at a Cathedral, where Things Are Different.
 

---

Posted by The Lady of the Lake (# 4347) on :
 
For what would discussing process theology be a euphemism ?
 

---

Posted by Janine (# 3337) on :
 
One solution to the kissy thing is to wear a generous slathering of very very bright lipstick. This will mark anyone who insists on kissing you on the lips.
 

---

Posted by KenWritez (# 3238) on :
 
Yeah, but what do I tell my wife when she asks why I'm wearing very very bright lipstick?
 

---

Posted by Janine (# 3337) on :
 
You could always wear her shade, then y'all'd match.

Or, you could point out someone who smooched you and say the lipstick came from that lady insisting on kissing you during the Peace or at the door.

If it will make you feel better, you could only point out to her the men who smooch you.
 

---

Posted by KenWritez (# 3238) on :
 
Too much beard burn.
 

---

Posted by nomadicgrl (# 7623) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Vikki Pollard:

<BREAKING NEWS>
I am currently exchanging e-mails with a guy from a dating site. He has just mail-flirted!
(A kiss on the end of his third mail).

Be still, my beating heart.

So tell me - is there anyone on here who finds it flattering if people blow cyber kisses at you when they have no idea what you're really like?

Mwaa mwaa everyone.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by KenWritez:
Too much beard burn.

---

quote:

---

Ha. Here, everyone is kissy. It's like a head start! The first thing you do when you meet someone new at church is swap names and kiss them. I think it's a great custom.

---

What a fantastic idea. I think shall put that into practice at my church ASAP.

Which church is this a custom at? I never figured church was a great place to pull...but obviously I'm wrong!
 

---

Posted by Vikki Pollard (# 5548) on :
 
You're in the wrong country, Matt. Try France. Or even Yorkshire, come to that.
 

---

Posted by 3M Matt (# 1675) on :
 
Yorkshire being a different country then huh?

By the way vikki..do you really look anything like Grace Kelly? (Go on...feed my fantasy!)
 

---

Posted by Vikki Pollard (# 5548) on :
 
Hmmm... people keep asking me that!

Well - comparing with a photo of me, I'd say the smile is very similar.

I heard she had a rather wilder - er 'Flirting Life' than me, even after her marriage.

So - the smile. That's about it, except I did once address a huge meeting in Monte Carlo...
 

---

Posted by saysay (# 6645) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by The Lady of the Lake:
Well I find it silly if someone sends 'X's to a woman they've never met. I seem to get silly opening lines/emails though. IRL nobody would come up to me and say things like 'Hi babe girl, beloved I believe we should hook up', etc. as if I don't really have a name, for God's sake .

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by The Lady of the Lake:
Well I find it silly if someone sends 'X's to a woman they've never met. I seem to get silly opening lines/emails though. IRL nobody would come up to me and say things like 'Hi babe girl, beloved I believe we should hook up', etc.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by saysay:

IRL, people do come up to me and say things like that.

I usually respond with something along the lines of, "Has this approach ever actually worked?"

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Craigmaddie:

When I threw caution to the wind and put my photo on to an internet dating site last year one of the first emails I received consisted of the line,

"Hi u look pretty sexy...if you wanna".

---

quote:

---

there is something really unappealing in being chatted up with sloppy English.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Vikki Pollard:
Aw Craig, this Y U dont ansa my PMs?

---

Hey ill always right back 2 u viks coz u r dead cool innit!??!!

x 1,000,000!

quote:

---

Originally posted by Janine:
Couldn't you fancy a nice cuddly close dinner for two, to try & communicate with eyes and hands and body language, hmm?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Vikki Pollard:
<sighs wistfully>

U SURE U not got olda bruv Craig?

---

Admit it, Viks, you're fascinated by the idea of a date conducted via semaphore, aren't you?

i can b any aj u want me 2 b babe!

[ 24. March 2005, 17:57: Message edited by: Craigmaddie ]
 

---

Posted by Vikki Pollard (# 5548) on :
 
ooooh Xiting stuff A!

(Only flag I can find on here is which seems appropriate. )
 

---

Posted by aj (# 1383) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Craigmaddie:


i can b any aj u want me 2 b babe!

---

Ahem. That's aj™ to y'all.
 

---

Posted by Janine (# 3337) on :
 
Doesn't anyone else wanna urge Craigums and Vik-P to go off somewhere for coffee?
 

---

Posted by Celsti (# 4523) on :
 
*bump*

they do seem to be getting along well. And he speaks her language - Innit.

(No, but yeah, but kaffy stole me lager, and it's not fair, innit...)

Um I'm going to a party this weekend, can I please have a couple of tips and a cheer squad for flirting with some of the nice boys who are going to be there?

(Disclaimer - due to a) hating parties b) not having been in the market for about 18 months c) being socially incompetent I require a kick in the pants if I'm actually going to talk to any boys)

By boys, I mean men, but it sounds less scary.
thanks in advance. Now, who can lend me a hair straightener?
 

---

Posted by Vikki Pollard (# 5548) on :
 
Cee Eee Elll
Esss Teee IIIIiii

You just look 'em IN THE EYE!!!

GOooo Celsti, GOooooo Celsti!

Celsti's sweet and Celsti's cute,
Just don't mess with her toot-toot!

Gooooo Celsti, GOOOoooo Celsti!

Erm... is that enough??

Blimey, just read the last few posts on this thread.



Hey Celsti, hope you really enjoy the party. The best tip I can give for shyness is, assume the other person is as shy as you and needs putting at their ease. Think up three questions you can ask which lead to answers other than 'yes' or 'no'. For example - "How do you know (party-giver)?" "What do you do in your spare time?" etc...

Make eye contact, smile, hold your head up. After all even if the worst happened and something disastrous occurred, you never need to see them again!

What do YOU find approachable about others? Do that.

And remember my motto: Everybody's bluffing.

ENJOY!
 

---

Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 
Another conversational ploy, once you are past the "nice day isn't it" and those Vikki mentions is to start imagining who the other people are, the conversations they are having and to what purpose).

It's nice and conspiratorial and you have to do this confidentially and quietly. It builds intimacy well, so be careful.
 

---

Posted by Janine (# 3337) on :
 
Couple that with "good gossip".

You know, like how the host was such a good friend to you when you moved here, or how that fellow over there helped set up the refreshments, or brought some good music; also conspirational -- and true, if you're talking about people you know. Adds to conversational possibilities.
 

---

Posted by RuthW (# 13) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
Another conversational ploy, once you are past the "nice day isn't it" and those Vikki mentions is to start imagining who the other people are, the conversations they are having and to what purpose).

It's nice and conspiratorial and you have to do this confidentially and quietly. It builds intimacy well, so be careful.

---

This is flirting?!? I do this all the time just because I think it's amusing.
 

---

Posted by Vikki Pollard (# 5548) on :
 
NOOooooooo...

...this is Celsti not being too shy to speak to anyone!
 

---

Posted by Zappa (# 8433) on :
 
What a wunderbar thread. Reminded me of the time at a big national conference and I was just Getting To Know Kuruman, (it was the day after the "could you help me with such and such" and the follow-up accidentally touching knees under the table at post-help dinner. We got to the sharing of the peace - which was just after the "oops I've got my cuff button tangled in her hair" moment (splutter splutter oh I'm sooo embarassed ) and it came to the peace, that moment of expressing the human longing for eschatological oneness and blah blah blah and I was aiming for the air kiss one centimetre to the left of kuruman's right ear and oops.

Thwacko. Smack on the smackers.

And also with you.

Now the art is to flirt, surrounded by anything from 2-8 children, 7 years later.

Anyone free to come and babysit?

[ 29. March 2005, 22:21: Message edited by: Zappa ]
 

---

Posted by Janine (# 3337) on :
 
Yeah, that's the trouble, isn't it.

Successful flirting and a bit of luck, and you find yourself a few years later hoping you'll find the opportunity for the full course flirt-to-finish.
 

---

Posted by Vikki Pollard (# 5548) on :
 
Ah, but a few years after that...
 

---

Posted by Craigmaddie (# 8367) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Celsti:
they do seem to be getting along well. And he speaks her language - Innit.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Celsti:
Um I'm going to a party this weekend, can I please have a couple of tips and a cheer squad for flirting with some of the nice boys who are going to be there?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Craigmaddie:
...although I do have an accent like a car exhaust dragging along tarmac.

---

quote:

---

And I'm not sure if Vikki goes for men with smouldering good looks who spend their time chopping logs in their kilt and eating porridge.

---

There's a first time for everything.

(But tell me - how long have you had logs in your kilt?! )
 

---

Posted by Janine (# 3337) on :
 
(cue Mae West-like voice...)

"Is that a log in your kilt, or are you just happy to see me?"

Mae West voice off
 

---

Posted by Craigmaddie (# 8367) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Vikki Pollard:
(But tell me - how long have you had logs in your kilt?! )

---

Since I can think of any answer that isn't off-shade, I shall maintain a dignified silence!

Speaking of kilts, when I hired Highland dress for a friend's wedding last year there was a sign in the hire shop advising customers 'for hygiene reasons' to refrain from going commando. I guess that makes sense in the same way that I wouldn't particularly wish to share underwear with strange men. But, all the same, there is still something inherently wrong with wearing underpants with the philibeg. I'm just too old to start a-changing now...

***

Queen Victoria: Is there anything worn under the kilt?
John Brown: No, M'am, it's all in perfect working order!

[ 31. March 2005, 09:27: Message edited by: Craigmaddie ]
 

---

Posted by Vikki Pollard (# 5548) on :
 
And that joke wasn't off-shade?? LOL

Well at least you didn't deny anything. Or really confirm anything either.

I never really thought about my moral stance on sharing underwear with strange men. I'll have to think about it and get back to you.

So-o-oo...

...OP, anyone?
 

---

Posted by RuthW (# 13) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Vikki Pollard:
NOOooooooo...

...this is Celsti not being too shy to speak to anyone!

---

Ah. Thanks.

Not exactly back to the OP, but on the subject of overcoming shyness: I was a painfully shy child, and an almost equally painfully shy teenager and young adult. I was well into my 20s before I really started to overcome it, but I'm living proof that it can be done.

The first step for me was realizing how much I didn't want to be shy and how much I did, because after all, when you've always been shy it's part of your identity, and as much trouble as it causes, it's hard to let go of something so self-defining--and then deciding that I would choose not to be shy, because after all, being shy is just no fun. But then what? My method to this day is to act as if I were not a shy person. Talking to strangers in some situations is still hard, but I decide beforehand that I am not going to let them know that I'm nervous and shy; instead I'm going to look them in the eye and smile and say "hi" and make conversation. And it works. I still have to look at myself in the mirror and give myself peptalks before I know I'm going to have to talk to people I don't know, but it's gotten easier with practice, and now people don't usually know I'm nervous about meeting them and talking with them unless I tell them.

[added something]

[ 31. March 2005, 16:59: Message edited by: RuthW ]
 

---

Posted by Curiosus (# 4808) on :
 
I couldn't agree more with Ruth's post. I've always been a shy person but I've had to attend a lot of formal functions for work over the last few years and shy isn't an option. I still have to give myself a firm pep talk every time I go to one of these things and I'm normally quaking inside. But, with practice, I've become reasonably adept at appearing to be very confident. My work colleagues simply don't believe my claims that I'm actually very shy.

The only problem, of course, is that I haven't quite overcome the whole shyness-on-dates thing. In fact, if I'm really nervous/shy, I tend to put up defensive barriers. Perhaps I need more practice on the dating front
 

---

Posted by sewanee_angel (# 2908) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Curiosus:
The only problem, of course, is that I haven't quite overcome the whole shyness-on-dates thing. Perhaps I need more practice on the dating front

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by RuthW:
My method to this day is to act as if I were not a shy person.

---

That's always been my method.

Every summer during college I worked new student orientation. My boss (who was also my advisor) was a sadist and, for reasons clear only to her, always assigned me to sheperd the engineers around.

People who are going into an honors program in engineering are not necessarily the most talkative bunch of people. There were days when I would ask a simple question, and everyone in my group would look at the ground. I very quickly learned the Power of Babble - if you just open your mouth and start talking, people will probably think you're an idiot, but they also tend to relax considerably.

Now when I tell people I'm shy they tend to laugh at me.
 

---

Posted by Vikki Pollard (# 5548) on :
 
I'm just the same.

People look on me as an extrovert, and in a sense I guess I am, if you go by how I present.

I love being around people AND I love being alone.

I might even be fairly well-balanced, come to think of it!
 

---

Posted by Corfe (# 633) on :
 
Me too. I've always said I'm a bit shy but I seem to have overcome it somehow and now people don't believe me.

Now it mainly affects me in one area of life: I'm never likely to approach someone I'm attracted to. It's easy to talk to everyone else.

Bugger.
.
 

---

Posted by RuthW (# 13) on :
 
Yes, well, that's the hardest of all, of course. And flirting makes me crazy--I don't like to flirt, I don't want to flirt, I just want to talk to someone and see if I might like him and if he might like me. If I'm interested, I don't want to give out the mixed signals of flirting, I want him to know, and if he's interested, I don't want to have to guess at it. After all, it's just interest, it's not a proposal.

So I don't flirt. I just talk to people, and if I'm interested, I find a way to say so. Chances are I miss some opportunities with men who like to flirt, and chances are even greater that I scare some men off this way, but I figure that it's my nature to be direct and fairly clear, and if someone doesn't like those qualities, the sooner I know that the better.
 

---

Posted by Gort (# 6855) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by saysay:

quote:

---

Originally posted by RuthW:
My method to this day is to act as if I were not a shy person.

---

That's always been my method...

---

Some people say it's better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than to open it and remove all doubt. To hell with that.

"Damn the torpedoes! Full speed ahead!"- Adm. D.G. Farragut
 

---

Posted by Vikki Pollard (# 5548) on :
 

 

---

Posted by saysay (# 6645) on :
 
I'm actually a congenital flirt - my normal behavior is generally seen as flirtatious (at some point my brother and I started calling each other 'brother' and 'sister' because it cut down on the number of people who assumed we were dating).

But since I flirt with everybody, the only way I can let someone know I'm interested is to come out and say it.
 

---

Posted by Dee-nz (# 5681) on :
 
Right,

Well they have closed down my favorate thread (TDA ) and banned it

So I am going to have to come down here and learn how to flirt...I am improving on this and have gotten some practice on the ship.

I am big on stealing a really good line and filing it away for personal use when the moment occurs...

...acting shy...nope...never been able to pull it off..

...best ship flirters so far....Lurker and Gort...total legends!!
 

---

Posted by Gort (# 6855) on :
 
Glad I'm not just a legend in my on mind!

You can expect this thread to disappear, too. I doesn't fit the remit of Christian Unrest. Nevermind that The West Wing, Dr. Who, Mistaken Impressions of Shipmates, Recipes, Gardening Thread, Browsers, Single Malt Whiskys, ad infinitum, also fall into this category.
 

---

Posted by Janine (# 3337) on :
 
Perhaps there'll be a proliferation of private boards, a la the new paranormal one, for all the non-Christian-not-unrestful topics.
 

---

Posted by Dee-nz (# 5681) on :
 
I don't understand is their some sort of purge going on? does not that mean that the ehole of heaven should go, I mean the idle creativity thing is not very unresful is it?
 

---

Posted by The Coot (# 220) on :
 
[Host note]
Please take queries and comments regarding the closure of TDA to the Styx thread, or start a new thread if you have other concerns.

Thanks,
Coot, Hvn Host.
 

---

Posted by Vikki Pollard (# 5548) on :
 
Well I didn't understand but I'm not bothered - however it seems to me we should be as restless as possible if we want this one to stay open, and I'm guessing throw in a little theology too.

Soooooooo Deenz, what kind of situation do you find it most difficult to flirt in?
 

---

Posted by Zappa (# 8433) on :
 
I'm always free for experimentation ...

[LOOKS AROUND FURTIVELY ....]

Shhhhh - just don't tell kuruman
 

---

Posted by kuruman (# 8892) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Zappa:
I'm always free for experimentation ...

[LOOKS AROUND FURTIVELY ....]

Shhhhh - just don't tell kuruman

---

Well well. Come strolling into heaven for the first time in months in order to start a new thread while my virtuous husband writes his sermon, and Lo! what do I see? He's the last person to write a post and his name lights up. "I wonder what loving things about his gentle wife he's been sharing with the world?" thinks I, so I pop in to see.
Watch out, Zappa!
 

---

Posted by Zappa (# 8433) on :
 

 

---

Posted by Vikki Pollard (# 5548) on :
 
You'll get no sympathy from me, mate.

Bl**dy clergy!!!!!!


 

---

Posted by kuruman (# 8892) on :
 
I'm with you on this one, Vikki!
 

---

Posted by Jazzuk777 (# 5720) on :
 
OK so-oooo, in the spirit of christian unrest...should we start a TDA liberation movement?

I would probably not make a very good Wolfie*, but we can't just sit here and do nothing about it!

...what's that? "we can"? oh ok....


(* Citizen Smith )
 

---

Posted by Zappa (# 8433) on :
 
So Vicki and kuruperson, you colluding suffragettes - where's your theology of forgivenness, reconciliation blah blah blah
 

---

Posted by Janine (# 3337) on :
 
I suppose that all who feel their threads they had been following were unfairly or inconsistently closed, could rush out and do something re: the topic IRL.

So, go set up a dating agency -- perhaps in a little storefront to start -- or go flirt madly with clergy-looking people by the fountain in the public square...

(Oh, wait, this flirting thread hasn't been closed. Yet.)

Nem'mind, peoples, carry on, hop right to it then.
 

---

Posted by Vikki Pollard (# 5548) on :
 
Zappa - it's probably up your backside somewhere...

Anyway don't let me distract you from your 'sermon writing'.
 

---

Posted by iGeek. (# 3207) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by RuthW:
I was a painfully shy child, and an almost equally painfully shy teenager and young adult.

---

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