quote:

---

Originally posted by shareman:
As I remember from 26 years ago, John XXIII sold the crown, but it was lent back to him and Paul for their coronations. Am I mistaken?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by FCB:

quote:

---

Originally posted by shareman:
As I remember from 26 years ago, John XXIII sold the crown, but it was lent back to him and Paul for their coronations. Am I mistaken?

---

I think you're confusing reality with the film The Shoes of the Fisherman.

---

quote:

---

Surely there's a rather fancy crown in the treasury attached to St Peter's that they could use?

---

Eleven, actually. I vote for Pius IX's.

And the Pope is still the sovereign of the Vatican City State, so the triple crown is "relevant."
 

---

Posted by Hooker's Trick (# 89) on :
 
Paul VI's crown, if I remember correctly, is sitting, at this very moment, under glass at the Basilica of the National Shrine of the Immaculate Conception.

Here are some rather good pictures of the sort of thing we'd like to see.
 

---

Posted by jlg (# 98) on :
 
This one makes me think of an old-fashioned christening gown (twice the length of the child/person wearing it). Though it does make the papal crown look rather innocuous and in scale.

this , though, evokes multiple brides adorned in red with ermine capelets ( ) approaching the altar.
 

---

Posted by Newman's Own (# 420) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Magic Wand:

quote:

---

Surely there's a rather fancy crown in the treasury attached to St Peter's that they could use?

---

Eleven, actually. I vote for Pius IX's.

And the Pope is still the sovereign of the Vatican City State, so the triple crown is "relevant."

---

I am fairly certain that Paul VI used the 'model' without the three crowns as a symbol of the papacy not having the previous degree of temporal authority.

IIRC, Paul was the first modern pope to travel elsewhere in the world during his pontificate - of course, nothing on the scale of John Paul. His no longer being head of a formidable temporal power (no Holy Roman Emperors to please, for example) apparently had a connection with this flexibility. Previous popes had to stay put lest they be taken to be out conquering the world.

The sedan chair also was phased out during Paul's reign. Too bad for some of the Vatican staff that it was still in use during the reign of John XXIII, who it must have been quite a penance to carry.

The Vatican undoubtedly has plenty of crowns - but is there any reason Benedict cannot have a coronation if he so chooses? Nothing in my substantial liturgical library treats of that in particular.


Sigh Presumably the Mass on Sunday is going to be televised... and, no matter how much I'm grumbling today or shall grumble later, I just know that I'm going to be watching it... suppose I'll have to make a spiritual communion that day.
 

---

Posted by Trisagion (# 5235) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Newman's Own:
... suppose I'll have to make a spiritual communion that day.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Trisagion:
I'd bet my bottom dollar there'll be no coronation.

---

Disappointing - it would be a lovely show. And having seen the crown I really think it should come out for an airing occasionally. I know it's hardly daywear, but perhaps he could slip it on for film premiers, awards' ceremonies and the like.
 

---

Posted by The Royal Spaniel (# 40) on :
 
We'll just have to wait until Liz snuffs it and Charlie becomes king before we see a Coronation I suppose.
Trisagion, you're a spoil-sport!
 

---

Posted by Rossweisse (# 2349) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by jlg:
This one makes me think of an old-fashioned christening gown (twice the length of the child/person wearing it). Though it does make the papal crown look rather innocuous and in scale.

this , though, evokes multiple brides adorned in red with ermine capelets ( ) approaching the altar.

---

Bad taste is timeless.

Jeepers, that kind of stuff can almost put one in sympathy with John Calvin.


 

---

Posted by Newman's Own (# 420) on :
 
All the reports I have checked online make it appear that Benedict is going to officiate at a Sunday Mass, which seems to be his installation, but there is no mention of a coronation - we'll need to wait for King Charles and his princess consort.

Trisagion - I am about as Catholic as it gets ... the only reason I'll be making a spiritual communion is because I'll be watching the Mass on the television.

Hooker - why is Paul VI's crown in Washington DC?

[ 19. April 2005, 22:53: Message edited by: Newman's Own ]
 

---

Posted by 103 (One-O-Three) (# 5846) on :
 
There is no coronation. If I understand correctly John Paul II (or was it JP1?) Abolished the coronation ceremony.
A Coronation ceremony sounds a little too much anyway for a "Simple worker"

-103
 

---

Posted by The Bede's American Successor (# 5042) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by 103 (One-O-Three):
There is no coronation. If I understand correctly John Paul II (or was it JP1?) Abolished the coronation ceremony.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by The Bede's American Successor:

quote:

---

Originally posted by 103 (One-O-Three):
There is no coronation. If I understand correctly John Paul II (or was it JP1?) Abolished the coronation ceremony.

---

And now Benedict can do whatever he wants.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Trisagion:
I'd bet my bottom dollar there'll be no coronation.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by RuthW:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Trisagion:
I'd bet my bottom dollar there'll be no coronation.

---

Why is that? Not suitable for a humble worker in the Lord's vineyard? Or because it's hard to bring something like this back once someone's done away with it? Or some other reason?

---

Because I know the man and it is simply not his style. His commitment to simplicity in his life is grounded in his commitment to "Put nothing before Christ" (from St Benedict's Rule) and one of his favourite aphorisms). He would see the pomp of such a coronation as deeply inappropriate. If I'm wrong, I invite all Shipmates to the solemn eating of my hat.

[ 20. April 2005, 05:47: Message edited by: Trisagion ]
 

---

Posted by RuthW (# 13) on :
 
Well, that's the best thing I've heard about him all day, I must say. And from one who knows, which is nice.

I hope you're right. If you're wrong, I will have to figure out what one wears to an ecumenical Solemn Eating of the Hat service. One's own hat, I presume, just to rub it in.
 

---

Posted by Fiddleback (# 2809) on :
 
But the important question is where does His Holiness stand on lace? I was disappointed to see him appear in a really nasty Italian box pleated rochet yesterday, so I'm not hopeful.

[ 20. April 2005, 08:55: Message edited by: Fiddleback ]
 

---

Posted by Cosmo (# 117) on :
 
It was pretty nasty wasn't it? However, I have hopes that the conclave was over before Messrs Gammarelli expected and so their tat wasn't in place. If you look closely, it seemd to me that Benedict was only wearing a black shirt underneath the rochet, not even a soutane.

We will soon know and, of course, we will soon know how butch he really is. Only straight priests wear lace nowadays.

Cosmo
 

---

Posted by Archimandrite (# 3997) on :
 
Well, I must say, I nearly wept when I heard the news. It's an affront to my faith, it really is.


Why couldn't we have had a real Dark Side Tat-Queen Pope?

 

---

Posted by Deon (# 609) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Trisagion:
Because I know the man and it is simply not his style. His commitment to simplicity in his life is grounded in his commitment to "Put nothing before Christ" (from St Benedict's Rule) and one of his favourite aphorisms). He would see the pomp of such a coronation as deeply inappropriate. If I'm wrong, I invite all Shipmates to the solemn eating of my hat.

---

Well, the man is evidently a talented pianist with a love of Mozart, whose brother was Kapellmeister of the Regensburg Dom and Choirmaster of the Regensburger Domspatzen.

Perhaps we will have a Coronation - the Mozart Kronungsmesse sung by his brother's former choir. Now that would combine self-deprecation with exquisite good taste!

Cheers

[ 20. April 2005, 10:50: Message edited by: Deon ]
 

---

Posted by Newman's Own (# 420) on :
 
It just occurred to me that, with (I'm sure) a huge number of Germans in attendance, whatever congregational singing there is at the Mass will be the most robust on earth. I have never been anywhere that tops Germany for that (RC or Lutheran), so the crowd may make up for deficiencies in the Sistine Choir.

With that said... I hope there is minimal congregational singing and some wonderful choral and instrumental music.

Perhaps (and this is just a personal thought), considering the substantial percentage of Catholics who are in 'third world' nations, and who may be highly sensitive to past pain from colonialism, the symbolism of a coronation could have negative connections which would not occur to 'pomp and pageantry' sorts such as myself.
 

---

Posted by ken (# 2460) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Newman's Own:
Perhaps (and this is just a personal thought), considering the substantial percentage of Catholics who are in 'third world' nations, and who may be highly sensitive to past pain from colonialism, the symbolism of a coronation could have negative connections which would not occur to 'pomp and pageantry' sorts such as myself.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Cosmo:
It was pretty nasty wasn't it? However, I have hopes that the conclave was over before Messrs Gammarelli expected and so their tat wasn't in place. If you look closely, it seemd to me that Benedict was only wearing a black shirt underneath the rochet, not even a soutane.

Cosmo

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Maniple:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Cosmo:
It was pretty nasty wasn't it? However, I have hopes that the conclave was over before Messrs Gammarelli expected and so their tat wasn't in place. If you look closely, it seemd to me that Benedict was only wearing a black shirt underneath the rochet, not even a soutane.

Cosmo

---

The first picture on the beeb website here shows Benedict wearing a soutane, but there is not much of it showing.

Will be seeing Messrs Gammarelli early next week - will ask Lorenzo what was going on!

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Maniple:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Cosmo:
It was pretty nasty wasn't it? However, I have hopes that the conclave was over before Messrs Gammarelli expected and so their tat wasn't in place. If you look closely, it seemd to me that Benedict was only wearing a black shirt underneath the rochet, not even a soutane.

Cosmo

---

The first picture on the beeb website here shows Benedict wearing a soutane, but there is not much of it showing.

Will be seeing Messrs Gammarelli early next week - will ask Lorenzo what was going on!

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Maniple:
The first picture on the beeb website here shows Benedict wearing a soutane, but there is not much of it showing.

Will be seeing Messrs Gammarelli early next week - will ask Lorenzo what was going on!

---

I think what has happened is that Papa Benedetto has chosen the smallest of the 3 Gamarelli cassocks, being slight of frame, and the sleeves simply aren't long enough. The delay between the white smoke and the first appearance suggested that there may have been fitting problems. For a while I even thought that they might have chosen Lehmann, and another Roncalli scenario was taking place.

Talking of whom piccies from the Mainz diocesan website show that some German prelates still wear proper rochets.

Has Cosmo performed the first quintuple post in Ship history?
 

---

Posted by MarkthePunk (# 683) on :
 
O. K. So now he's giving the homily AFTER the Lord's Supper?

He speaks Latin well, though, in a pleasant voice. I can catch a lot of it. My high school Latin classes are finally useful.
 

---

Posted by Cosmo (# 117) on :
 
All the Cardinals are nodding carefully and pretending that they understand more than one word in ten. Attractive accent

'Sister Janet', our commentatrix, has been shot or gagged, and we now have a male voice giving us a translation of the Homily. Long enconium on the virtues of the 'Great' John Paul.

Cosmo
 

---

Posted by Newman's Own (# 420) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Cosmo:
Here comes the Homily after all and it is in Latin.

As though any of you could give a monkey's curse.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Fiddleback:
'Ite' intoned nicely, but no alleluias?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Cosmo:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Fiddleback:
'Ite' intoned nicely, but no alleluias?

---

Of course not. Alleluias stop after Low Sunday.

Cosmo

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Cosmo:
The Organist is playing as though he's wearing boxing gloves.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Deon:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Cosmo:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Fiddleback:
'Ite' intoned nicely, but no alleluias?

---

Of course not. Alleluias stop after Low Sunday.

Cosmo

---

Is that really so??? We always have them all the way through Eastertide .... which does seem excessive. I'd love to get Fr to put a stop to it - does Ritual Notes have an entry?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Deon:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Cosmo:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Fiddleback:
'Ite' intoned nicely, but no alleluias?

---

Of course not. Alleluias stop after Low Sunday.

Cosmo

---

Is that really so??? We always have them all the way through Eastertide .... which does seem excessive. I'd love to get Fr to put a stop to it - does Ritual Notes have an entry?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by MarkthePunk:
O. K. So now he's giving the homily AFTER the Lord's Supper?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Cosmo:
A quick mention by the HF that only 'proper' celebrations of the liturgy and only 'proper' celebrations of the Mass are to be tolerated.

---

Those'd be the ones where two candles are placed on one end of God's board and a spider plant on the other?
 

---

Posted by Chapelhead (# 1143) on :
 
Did the Swiss Guard have a new flag for the new Pope? That would be impressive.
 

---

Posted by Adeodatus (# 4992) on :
 
Well I've missed all of his "first Mass". Does anyone know if (and if so, where) his inaugural Mass is going to be televised on Sunday?

On papal tat: Bonaventura kindly supplied this link to one of the UK's more high quality newpapers from the "New Pope!" thread up in Purgatory. There's definitely a white cassock sleeve there, but it's much too short. Also a hint of lace or at least drawn-thread work on the rochet. Pity the stole was all crooked. It's very pretty. Does anyone make copies?
 

---

Posted by Peronel (# 569) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Adeodatus:
Also a hint of lace or at least drawn-thread work on the rochet.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Fiddleback:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Cosmo:
A quick mention by the HF that only 'proper' celebrations of the liturgy and only 'proper' celebrations of the Mass are to be tolerated.

---

Those'd be the ones where two candles are placed on one end of God's board and a spider plant on the other?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Cosmo:
However, I fear that one problem with Benedict as Pope is that he probably had a bit more obvious liturgical power before his elevation. I suspect it might depend on whom he appoints as Prefect in his place.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Newman's Own:
Hooker - why is Paul VI's crown in Washington DC?

---

quote:

---

Pope Paul's tiara was presented to the National Shrine of the Basilica of the Immaculate Conception in Washington, DC by the Apostolic Delegate to the United States on February 6, 1968 as a gesture of Pope Paul VI's affection for the Catholic Church in the United States. It is on permanent display in Memorial Hall along with the stole of Pope John XXIII, which he wore at the opening of the Second Vatican Council.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by 103 (One-O-Three):
There is no coronation. If I understand correctly John Paul II (or was it JP1?) Abolished the coronation ceremony.
A Coronation ceremony sounds a little too much anyway for a "Simple worker"

-103

---

The coronation has not been abolished. JPI simply decided to be installed by being invested with the pallium and any new pope could choose to be crowned again - with the triple tiara, since his 3 dominions still apply. Fat chance that will ever happen though. Who wants to be labeled as "the pompous ass who brought it all back"?
 

---

Posted by Maniple (# 2237) on :
 
Congrats to Cosmo for the blow by blow account. Perhaps you could do the same for Sunday's installation/induction - perhaps Benedict may be wearing scarf and hood....

In terms of old fashioned ritual I was pleased to see the breaking of the host over the chalice. Good to see Papa is ignoring the GIRM! He also made the sign of the cross with the host before receiving, which is considered 'old fashioned'.

No Sticky Fingers tho'

Came across a piccy of John Paul the Great showing how its done...... Sticky Fingers!
 

---

Posted by Maniple (# 2237) on :
 
For those of you who missed the programme earlier its being repeated NOW (22:22pm London time)

Got as far as the Gosepl.

http://www.ewtn.com

then click on multimedia and choose between rela video or windows media (real video works better from my experience.

Enjoy!
 

---

Posted by stbruno (# 3505) on :
 
I am still trying to figure out what kind of a mass this was. CNN televeised the event introducing it as the Benedict's (I still keep thinking of him as Ratzinger!) private mass with the cardinals.
OK there was a deacon singing the gospel and the Mass was sung which made me think its a solemn mass. But why no smoke??? (Are there fears for the art work?) And what is with this heretical practice of intinction? I thought that was seen as one of the absues that were to be stamped out under the new rules?
Personally I would have preferred tohave seen communion delivered on the tongue only with the communicants in a prayerful kneeling position for this event. For those of us who love the Tridentine rite (ok we are a minority) Benedict is seen as a great defender of the rite and has celebtated it himself on several occassions, as well as sorting out hard line bishops who have banned their priests from celebrating it.
 

---

Posted by FCB (# 1495) on :
 
Intinction is only an "abuse" when people do it themselves, rather than letting the minister intinct the host and place it on their tongue. The cardinals got to self-intinct because they are conelebrants, not mere lay-trash. Why they did not drink from the chalice (as most did at the funeral) is a mystery.

I thought the best moment was when the concelebrant to Benedict's right flubbed the Pope's name in the Eucharistic Prayer. He first prayer for John Paul (out of habit?) and then went back and prayed for Benedict, but then had to take a minute to figure out how to say "the sixteenth" in Latin. Not that I fault him for this; I would probably had to pull out Wheelock (ordinal numbers being a weak point of mine).

FCB
 

---

Posted by Sarum-mental (# 9300) on :
 
Well, it will be interesting if the eastward position returns to favour. As cardinal the new Pope wrote a compelling appeal to return to celebrating in that fashion. His underlying theme was putting Our Lord first and directing the priest and worshippers toward the Almighty and away from what he considered a closed circle which did not serve the ideals of worship opening outward and artificially forcing the priest to be the central focus. It was certainly balm to my sensibilities.
 

---

Posted by Fiddleback (# 2809) on :
 
And here is what we can hope to see once Benny has chucked out all that nasty Gamarelli's 'tat'.
 

---

Posted by 103 (One-O-Three) (# 5846) on :
 
Anybody noticed that Benedict XVI looks like Fester Addams?

-103
 

---

Posted by FCB (# 1495) on :
 
What I want to know is what Fiddleback and Henry are doing up at this ungody (UK) hour.

FCB
 

---

Posted by The Wanderer (# 182) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by 103 (One-O-Three):
Anybody noticed that Benedict XVI looks like Fester Addams?

-103

---

You're right! This is a deeply unreasonable way to react to anyone, but he does look scary to me.

(And does anyone know when the installation will be on TV?)
 

---

Posted by Maniple (# 2237) on :
 
The Installation is at 9am UK time.

The UK networks haven't got it on their schedules.

The Eternal Word Television Network is showing it.

Solemn Mass of Inauguration of Pope Benedict XVI, Live
LIVE:
April 24, 4 AM ET

Repeats:
April 24, 10 AM ET, 3 PM ET
April 25, 12 AM ET, 4 AM ET, 1 PM ET, 5 PM ET

These are Eastern Times - add 5 hrs if in UK.

http://www.ewtn.com

then follow link to multimedia, live tv, real video / windows media.

I hope to be able to see 1/2hr live before having to go to Mass, then will be able to see the repeat.
 

---

Posted by Newman's Own (# 420) on :
 
I must be getting old... I not only think that Benedict is a handsome man but that the MC who stands to his left is stunning... but I digress...

Anyone who has not read Benedict's "Spirit of the Liturgy" (no doubt, borrowing Guardini's title was deliberate) probably would enjoy it immensely. It almost made me wish for silent Canons. (Yes, we'd all like a few Canons to keep silent - in this case, I meant Eucharistic Prayers.)

I cannot imagine why concelebrants would receive the wine by intinction - that is new to me. (I dislike intinction in any case, but do not think I've ever seen concelebrants not drink from the chalice.)

I shall add both a and a for Cosmo's wonderful commentary on the Mass - this is one thread I'm going to be sure to save.
 

---

Posted by Leetle Masha (# 8209) on :
 
Another big thank you to Cosmo! If you hadn't given your excellent report, I'd have missed a lot!

I have a musical question: Most of the chanting (and it seemed they didn't know the chant very well) was the Missa Marialis, but where did they get that Gloria in Excelsis?

Leetle M.
 

---

Posted by Carilloneur (# 8279) on :
 
Deon said:

quote:

---

I think it's because he doubles as carilloneur.

---

Should I be concerned?
 

---

Posted by FCB (# 1495) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Leetle Masha:
I have a musical question: Most of the chanting (and it seemed they didn't know the chant very well) was the Missa Marialis, but where did they get that Gloria in Excelsis?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Newman's Own:
I must be getting old... I not only think that Benedict is a handsome man but that the MC who stands to his left is stunning... but I digress...

Anyone who has not read Benedict's "Spirit of the Liturgy" (no doubt, borrowing Guardini's title was deliberate) probably would enjoy it immensely. It almost made me wish for silent Canons. (Yes, we'd all like a few Canons to keep silent - in this case, I meant Eucharistic Prayers.)

I cannot imagine why concelebrants would receive the wine by intinction - that is new to me. (I dislike intinction in any case, but do not think I've ever seen concelebrants not drink from the chalice.)

I shall add both a and a for Cosmo's wonderful commentary on the Mass - this is one thread I'm going to be sure to save.

---

Is the MC an ordained priest too? I thought it looked like he had a clerical collar! Who is he??? and I wonder where he is from?
Preheps we ought to make some Vatican Top Trump cards!

-103
 

---

Posted by Adrian1 (# 3994) on :
 
Well the English Missal (Missale Anglicanum) certainly provides Propers for Mass on the day of a Papal Coronation. I used them on Wednesday morning.

For what it's worth I'm not sure whether a 'Coronation' is quite in keeping with the beginning of a modern Pontificate. However there will be an inauguration ceremony on Sunday and if it's broadcast I'll either get it videoed or see it live, depending on what time it's at.


 

---

Posted by Leetle Masha (# 8209) on :
 
Thank you, FCB, for the link to that Gloria. It is definitely the Missa cum Jubilo Gloria, rather than the Missa Marialis Gloria.

I too am "Musically Challenged", but thought the singing at the Mass for the Cardinals needed a bit of work.

However, they all looked very tired.

Leetle M.
 

---

Posted by Corpus cani (# 1663) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by 103 (One-O-Three):
Preheps we ought to make some Vatican Top Trump cards!

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by 103 (One-O-Three):
AHHHH - I have a Pius X card, that means I win all!

-103

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Archimandrite:
Papal coronations and all that remind me of something I vaguely remember hearing about a chap called Cardinal Siri (?) who was supposed to have been elected instead of John XXIII - I think when I came across the story, it had been put about by some rabidly anti-Novus Ordo types. Would anyone with a knowledge of this sort of conspiracy theory mind enlightening me?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by 103 (One-O-Three):

quote:

---

Originally posted by Archimandrite:
Papal coronations and all that remind me of something I vaguely remember hearing about a chap called Cardinal Siri (?) who was supposed to have been elected instead of John XXIII - I think when I came across the story, it had been put about by some rabidly anti-Novus Ordo types. Would anyone with a knowledge of this sort of conspiracy theory mind enlightening me?

---

Too much reading of Novus Ordo Watch will turn you into a monster (like me)

Take the Cardinal Siri story with a pinch of salt, it's all rather weird.

-103

---

quote:

---

these folks have racial memories of the Romans gutting them out in the circuses to the tune of water-pressure organs. I'm not surprised that when it comes to instrument building, they're a bit conflicted.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Leetle Masha:

quote:

---

these folks have racial memories of the Romans gutting them out in the circuses to the tune of water-pressure organs. I'm not surprised that when it comes to instrument building, they're a bit conflicted.

---

Oh, Tomb...that explains everything.

As an Orthodox Christian, I think I will now make a Novena to St. Healey Willan asking that when the Church is finally one again, the Sistine Choir be prohibited in perpetuum from using any form of Znamenny Chant.

Tone deaf after only a few days of this stuff,

Leetle M.

---

quote:

---

I didn't know that Orthodox Christians sullied themselves with such western innovations as Novenas.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by tomb:
Hate to burst your bubble about the Mass setting, but it wasn't Cum Jubilo (ix For Feasts of the Blessed Virgin 1); it was De Angelis (viii. For Doubles). It's the only one that the Sistine Choir knows (trust me on this). Both were inappropriate. It should have been Lux et Origo (i. in Paschal time). NB: They did Credo iii; s/h/b i.

---

quote:

---

And Marini, the Master of Ceremonies for St. Peter's, who choreographed so many of JPII's dog and pony shows, was NOT IN EVIDENCE for any of the masses.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Trisagion:
Tomb, are we talking about the same Mass. I have just listened to my recording of the Mass in the Sistina and it sure sounded like Cum Jubilo to me.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by The Wanderer:
(And does anyone know when the installation will be on TV?)

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Magic Wand:
... and two confirmed boys from the several parts of the world.

---

Does this mean the same as "confirmed bachelor" (i.e. these boys will always be boys) or does it mean that it has been confirmed that they are boys? If the latter, how did they confirm it?

Corpus
 

---

Posted by Leetle Masha (# 8209) on :
 
Corpus.... chrismated boys.

Orthodoxy helps me with my Italian.
 

---

Posted by Newman's Own (# 420) on :
 
My Italian is fine, but perhaps too colloquial. What on earth is obedience?
 

---

Posted by Leetle Masha (# 8209) on :
 
Newman's Own asks quite rightly:

quote:

---

What on earth is obedience?

---

I'd need to give that further study and get back to you....

Leetle M.
 

---

Posted by Newman's Own (# 420) on :
 
Perhaps it is a liturgical obeisance or something...

Any lack of clarity about a definition of sheer 'obedience' I'm sure should remain an eternal mystery... though, with Benedict, I have a feeling that we're about to find out...
 

---

Posted by Corpus cani (# 1663) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Leetle Masha:
Corpus.... chrismated boys.

---

Well thank heavens for that

Corpus
 

---

Posted by Chapelhead (# 1143) on :
 
Not "oiled young men" then?
 

---

Posted by Midnight Scholar (# 9112) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Corpus cani:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Magic Wand:
... and two confirmed boys from the several parts of the world.

---

Does this mean the same as "confirmed bachelor" (i.e. these boys will always be boys) or does it mean that it has been confirmed that they are boys? If the latter, how did they confirm it?

Corpus

---

If my Italian hasn't entirely deserted me, I think 'ragazzi' means 'children' rather than 'boys' - as so often, the masculine plural is taken to include the feminine. (Ragazze (fem. plur.) would be 'girls' specifically, since the feminine doesn't include the masculine.) On the same principle a crowd of 200 women and one man is referred to in French as 'ils', only a female-only group qualifying as 'elles'.
This is how many of the Romance languages work
Or maybe this is wishful thinking and I'm merely hoping it doesn't mean they have to be boys. The preceding noun (sposi) certainly isn't sex specific.

midnight
 

---

Posted by Leetle Masha (# 8209) on :
 

quote:

---

Not 'oiled young men'?

---

Hehe! Anointed does mean oiled, Chapelhead, but not in the sense that we've been thinking of when attempting to lubricate Gort.

Masher

Oh, and Elizabeth, Yes, I'm sure we'll be among the first to find out what "obedience" is....

[ 23. April 2005, 02:25: Message edited by: Leetle Masha ]
 

---

Posted by Newman's Own (# 420) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by 103 (One-O-Three):
Is the MC an ordained priest too? I thought it looked like he had a clerical collar! Who is he??? and I wonder where he is from?
Perhaps we ought to make some Vatican Top Trump cards!

---

I finally found a clear picture of the MC to which I was referring here - he is standing to John Paul's left. Lord have mercy, what a handsome man! He obviously is a priest - perhaps a bishop - but I'm embarrassed to say I've forgotten his name (though we once met).

The Newman's Own Fanciability Rating is a fine idea for the Trump Cards. (John XXIII as a 'four' actually is generous - John Paul II would be an 8 or so, except that I've never quite fancied Slavic men.) How sad that the only 20th century 10 is Pius X...

[Tidied code]

[ 23. April 2005, 15:56: Message edited by: Anselmina ]
 

---

Posted by Illustrissimi (# 9296) on :
 
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Magic Wand:
[QB] The rite is up on the web here.

If you do a Google translation of the page from Italian, it comes up with the following sort of thing (hehe): "The Saint Padre laughed them in Basilica and joins to the processione of income. Reaching in Saint public square Peter, the concelebranti, after venerato the Altar, they kiss it and everyone catches up just the place."

Even funnier is the translation of B16's address to the Cardinals: "Venera You Siblings Cardinals!... To the intense emotions tried in occasion of the dead women of mine venerato predecessore Giovanni Paul II and then during the Conclave and above all to its epilogue add an intimate need of Hush and two feelings between complementary they: an alive desire of the heart ringraziare and a sense of human impotence..." Oh! I love technology!!
 

---

Posted by Trisagion (# 5235) on :
 

quote:

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Newman's Own:
Is the MC an ordained priest too? I thought it looked like he had a clerical collar! Who is he??? and I wonder where he is from?
Perhaps we ought to make some Vatican Top Trump cards!

---

I finally found a clear picture of the MC to which I was referring here - he is standing to John Paul's left. Lord have mercy, what a handsome man! He obviously is a priest - perhaps a bishop - but I'm embarrassed to say I've forgotten his name (though we once met).

---

quote:

---

It's Archbishop Piero Marini, Papal MC.

---

But hopefully not for long...

Alas I'm probably foolish to think that things will turn in an even slightly more traditional direction, but one can hope. And dumping Marini would be a giant step in that direction.
 

---

Posted by Newman's Own (# 420) on :
 
Thank you, Trisagion. I'm horribly embarrassed that I could meet and speak with Archbishop Marini, yet be so taken with his fanciability rating (10) that I forgot his name and rank. Not to mention that I've seen him 'from a distance' or in television reports on countless occasions.

Wand, may I ask a bit more about how +Marini's tenure has caused liturgical difficulties? I'd be very interested - and this strikes me as a place where others would be as well. (I had noticed, of course, that for years he had to discreetly assist John Paul to maintain the dignity of his bearing in a long period of severely ill health.)

[ 23. April 2005, 16:02: Message edited by: Newman's Own ]
 

---

Posted by Illustrissimi (# 9296) on :
 
Why? The archbishop always strikes me as being pretty trad.
 

---

Posted by The Dumb Acolyte (# 1158) on :
 
Uh, back to the opening post...

My Italian is next to nonexistent, but the Vatican web site seems to be calling it the Imposition of the Pallium, Delivery of the Fisherman's Ring, and the Beginning of the Petrine Ministry of the Bishop of Rome. Have I got that right? Not a coronation at all.

Maybe the German Shepherd will be more loveable than some fear.

I know what a pallium is, but with which Pallium will he be invested?
 

---

Posted by Newman's Own (# 420) on :
 
This article from Yahoo provides a nice summary.
 

---

Posted by Dumbledore wannabe (# 9310) on :
 
Marini is excellent. He made a lot of traditionalists angry by letting native "expressions" into papal masses. He taught liturgy at the house where I lived and studied. He really is one of the best.

[Removed possibly libelous comments]

[ 23. April 2005, 23:01: Message edited by: jlg ]
 

---

Posted by 103 (One-O-Three) (# 5846) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Illustrissimi:
Why? The archbishop always strikes me as being pretty trad.

---

Because, If NO get's her way, he'll have to leave the priesthood to marry her

-103
 

---

Posted by Leetle Masha (# 8209) on :
 

quote:

---

If NO get's her way, he'll have to leave the priesthood to marry her

---

Yeah, 103, she saw him first, and fair's fair....

Leetle M.
 

---

Posted by Dumbledore wannabe (# 9310) on :
 
All I seem to do is say "Mea maxima culpa" here. Perhaps all the shipmates should chant a good Dies Irae, boot me out, and extinguish some candles upside-down for me. (I do love good liturgy). I'm sure it would be done perfectly.
To Simon, and our hosts - I really am sorry for putting you at risk for my
"Removed possibly libelous comments".
I assure you they are true, but I totally understand.
"To understand all is to forgive all" (Good "Brideshead Theology")
Nonetheless, I will be very curious to see if you decide it is not libelous.
Albus +
PS Does a new member jump straight to "Shipmate" status for getting the prized [Removed possibly libelous comments]?
 

---

Posted by welsh dragon (# 3249) on :
 
So there will be an enthronement, but will there be a coronation?
 

---

Posted by 103 (One-O-Three) (# 5846) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Leetle Masha:

quote:

---

If NO get's her way, he'll have to leave the priesthood to marry her

---

Yeah, 103, she saw him first, and fair's fair....

Leetle M.

---

Wrong Age, Wrong sex and spoken for!


-103
 

---

Posted by Corpus cani (# 1663) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by 103 (One-O-Three):
Wrong Age, Wrong sex and spoken for!

---

Now I'm completely confused. Does this refer to NO, you or the Archbishop?!?

Cc
 

---

Posted by Archbishop Paddy O'Laud (# 9294) on :
 
The Papal Tiara was sold off after Paul VI - one is not confected for succeeding Popes. It was, I believe, bought by the Knights of Columbus [American version of the Irish Knights of Saint Columbanus] and resides at the Cathedral near their offices and for which they pay big bucks to maintain annually. The cathedral that is - not the tiara. Having lost cash with an Irish Bookie on the election of Papa Ratzi I still feel confident to bet on the coronation - nope - none! Installation yes.
 

---

Posted by Annis (# 9366) on :
 
The Fisherman's Ring is the replacement for the crown.

[ 24. April 2005, 10:45: Message edited by: Annis ]
 

---

Posted by FCB (# 1495) on :
 
I suppose all the Brits are in Church, so we Yank's will have to weigh in with the first insta-comments.

Here's a few random comments to start us off:

So, what do you tat-mongers think of the new pallium? I like it, but then I have neo-patristic leanings.

Things seemed better organized than the funeral, particularly with regard to communion.

It's good to see the old-style Popemobile back. I never liked the glass-enclosed one.

I thought the homily was very good. I was particularly struck by his comment about the net not being whole. A lot of people might think that Benedict's version of ecumenism would be "the net is whole and you prots and orthodox just need to hop in it." His homily would seem to indicate that this is not the case.

I was glad to see that Rowan Williams can sing the Our Father in Latin without having to look at the book (not that I'm really surprised).

I was also glad to see that one of the "oiled young men" was in fact a girl.

Was it just wishful hearing on my part, or did the choir sound better than they did at JP2's funeral?

FCB
 

---

Posted by Corpus cani (# 1663) on :
 
Well it was alright. I'd rather have a coronation though. I thought my bit went very well. Bit worried that my wimple might not cover my stubble, which would have blown my cover big time, but I got away with it.

Thought BXVI was fab. Good homily and - wow! He really can smile without looking evil. Do you suppose he's been practising all week?

Frankly, I thought some of the Cardinals looked much more well-oiled than the boys.

Corpus
P.S.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Archbishop Paddy O'Laud:
The Papal Tiara was sold off after Paul VI -

---

I think we dealt with this earlier in the thread and decided it is a myth. Or is it a legend?
 

---

Posted by Chapelhead (# 1143) on :
 
Isn't the palium given by the Pope to Archbishops he thinks are good eggs (or to all Archbishops)? Presumably Benny would have been given one by Paul VI, so is there a particular significance in him getting one today? The fisherman's ring is clearly significant, but is the palium?

[ 24. April 2005, 12:07: Message edited by: Chapelhead ]
 

---

Posted by Leetle Masha (# 8209) on :
 
Corpus, in that very confusing post of 103's, apparently he took my suggestion that the papal MC was seen first by NO to apply to him. It didn't. A quote from 103 at the beginning was wrongly attributed to me. All I said was that NO had first claim on the MC. Hope this clears things up.

Leetle M.
 

---

Posted by FCB (# 1495) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Chapelhead:
The fisherman's ring is clearly significant, but is the palium?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Corpus cani:
Well it was alright. I'd rather have a coronation though.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Fiddleback:
I could be quite wrong on this, but it is my understanding theat in 'ye goode olde days' the coronation took place some weeks/months after the investiture. We can still live in hope, therefore.

---

I could be quite wrong on this but I thought they said on the BBC that they'd scrapped it and that there wouldn't be a coronation. They definitely said that the triple crown isn't used any more.

(They also came out with an interesting fact about how the Pope used to have to be preceded by someone with a bundle of flax which he would then set light to, shouting, "Sic transit gloria mundi", as it rapidly disappeared in smoke. Rather a nice touch, I'd have thought. It made me wonder if at the inaugural dinner later, they had someone appearing with a skull between courses and crying, "Memento mori".)
 

---

Posted by Sarum Sleuth (# 162) on :
 
They also came out with an interesting fact about how the Pope used to have to be preceded by someone with a bundle of flax which he would then set light to, shouting, "Sic transit gloria mundi", as it rapidly disappeared in smoke.

I believe this cheerful task was allocated to a Franciscan Friar, although it is so long ago that I read this, I could not swear to it.

On a slightly different aspect of the ceremony, did anybody notice that the deacons attending the Pope were wearing collars that were separate from their dalmatics and looked not dissimilar to apparelled amices?

It's nice to see some of St Pecy's ideas followed by Rome......

SS
 

---

Posted by Newman's Own (# 420) on :
 
Text of Benedict's homily

Though I loved his words about the Good Shepherd, I'm glad I was not the only one who was uneasy with hearing Benedict refer to his own election in terms of selecting the one whom God had chosen. I had the sense of all the saints of heaven chiming in... Then again, perhaps he meant more that he counts on their intercession. Benedict's Italian is excellent, but things often come out slightly different than one intended when one is speaking a language other than one's native tongue. (No professor wants such a 'job,' especially at 78, so I imagine he needs to remind himself as well that he was the one the Holy Spirit chose.)

Others might disagree, but I was rather glad that Benedict did not speak of the massive number of political issues confronting the Church - or the Church's possible influence in same. Not that he'll not need to do so later, but I was glad that it was not part of the first homily.

On a thread in Purgatory (which I found immensely helpful), FCB aptly spoke of Benedict's Augustinian emphasis. Yes, I love Augustine - though more when he is in Trinity mode - but Benedict reminded me strongly of him when he referred to the powers of evil.

I'm glad that Leetle Masha has established that I have first pick of the MC.
 

---

Posted by Newman's Own (# 420) on :
 
I of course meant 'differently.'

In case it was not obvious, when I said that Benedict perhaps is more counting on the intercession of the saints, I meant that rather wryly. I think he is finding it very comforting and sustaining as he undertakes the massive task - no 'perhaps' about it.

One part I did find strange. I loved John Paul's "Be not afraid!" sermon, and could understand Benedict's reference to this. Yet the ending puzzled me, because he said not to be afraid of Christ.
 

---

Posted by The Wanderer (# 182) on :
 
Has anyone got a link to Ratzinger's homily at JP2's funeral? I'd like to be able to look at it again.
 

---

Posted by Ariel (# 58) on :
 
There's the one Newman's Own just posted: Vatican link; or the BBC one (pdf), same text, which speaking for myself I find easier to read.
 

---

Posted by Sarum-mental (# 9300) on :
 
On the whole the homily was well done but like NO I was a bit concerned by the way he made his point with the three litanies--still given how busy everyone has been this last week it's a wonder anyone could put together something of that length in such a cogent manner encompassing the history, the readings and the ritual. Perhaps this was reading too much into his conclusion but I heard "do not be afraid to give yourself over to Christ" but that was listening to the Italian--spoken and speaking as well as the American commentator (the only rebroadcast we had was from the Italian television feed in English a leur facon and fioritura added by three American commentators). For a nice discussion of the pallium try to find a copy of Margaret Visser's (and her husband's)The Geometry of Love (I think that's the title)--she has a section tying the story she tells to the pallium--it goes back to the earliest days of Christian Rome.
 

---

Posted by FCB (# 1495) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Newman's Own:
Yet the ending puzzled me, because he said not to be afraid of Christ.

---

quote:

---

The pastor must be inspired by Christ’s holy zeal: for him it is not a matter of indifference that so many people are living in the desert. And there are so many kinds of desert. There is the desert of poverty, the desert of hunger and thirst, the desert of abandonment, of loneliness, of destroyed love. There is the desert of God’s darkness, the emptiness of souls no longer aware of their dignity or the goal of human life. The external deserts in the world are growing, because the internal deserts have become so vast. Therefore the earth’s treasures no longer serve to build God’s garden for all to live in, but they have been made to serve the powers of exploitation and destruction.

---

Very Augustinian (and I think that's a good thing).

FCB
 

---

Posted by stbruno (# 3505) on :
 
Thank goodness for the Litany of Saints. Most post -Council cathilics would never have encountered this fantastic litany -which like many of the traditional trappings went ut of fashion-or worse were made to be a cause for embrassment. And now the Litany has had three worldwide outings! Hopefully this is one devotion which may come back in- although kneeling on a hard floor for 20 mins or so can be very trying! Was it just me or did the litany end with an appeal to St Benedict?

I loved the pallium-it looked like the kind worn by Popes in the Middle ages-

The Holy Fathers crozier? Is this the same one as used by his predecessor?
 

---

Posted by Pendragon (# 8759) on :
 
I saw the inaugeration up until the end of the intercessions, when I had to go and be a good Anglican, and thought his homily quite reasonable, and as a result, I ended up leading some prayers for unity in the church this evening.

On the "how nice they all looked" front:
1)Am I the only one who thinks that shots of B16 with his mitre towering over his face are less flattering than the ones with him not wearing it?
2) Did you see the fantastic mantilla the lady standing in the Heads of State congregation next to the altar was wearing?
3) What was the person who read the Greek gospel wearing, other than a lot of gold cloth?
[ETA yes, I liked the Palium as well, once I worked out how it fitted (side view was unhelpful.)]

[ 24. April 2005, 23:44: Message edited by: Pendragon ]
 

---

Posted by MarkthePunk (# 683) on :
 
In the U. S., the inauguration mass is now being rebroadcast on EWTN.
 

---

Posted by MarkthePunk (# 683) on :
 
I'll warn you that EWTN has the commentators at full sound but the service muted.
 

---

Posted by tomb (# 174) on :
 
Regarding the Ordinaries to the Masses, the only one I recognized during the novendialis was de Angelis--and I've transcribed most of them from the Kyriale into modern notation. De Angelis is well-known to me, because I have sung it at the Vatican several times--for papal and chapter Masses.

I find it hard to believe the Cum Julilo was sung during the interregnum, but if some of you were humming along, then I bow to your racial memory. Actually, the Annunciation would have beem observed during the Interregnum (having fallen on Good Friday and being transferred to the next available day after the Octave of Easter). If they actually sang it on a Proper day, then they have more liturgical sense than I give them credit for.

I watched the first part of the investiture ceremony this morning (at 2 a.m. my time), but gave up after Bxvi got the Pallium--I skipped the homily, and there was no need to observe the Consecration: if you've seen one wafer turned into Jesus, you've seen 'em all.

I thought it was pretty cool that they did some research (in Lyons, if I remember) and invested him with a Pallium that was more ancient in design than the rags they currently hang on archbishops. And I thought the procession out of the Confessio was really cool.

I was dismayed that Msr. Liberto is still directing the Sistina (merciful God, that man's conducting style looks like he's killing flies) , but I stand by my contention that Bxvi is gonna get rid of him sooner than later.
 

---

Posted by MarkthePunk (# 683) on :
 
Nice looking gospels. Of course, I like big golden gospels.
 

---

Posted by Spiffy da Wonder Sheep (# 5267) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Pendragon:

2) Did you see the fantastic mantilla the lady standing in the Heads of State congregation next to the altar was wearing?

---

quote:

---

the Orthodox Plot lost a few points with the Greek reading of the Gospel.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Leetle Masha:
It may be, however, that you just don't care for the sound of Byzantine chant. Not to worry, many people find it hard to get used to.

---

Which has to be why churches of Russian and Antiochian background are taking in so many more new members than churches of a Greek background, no?
 

---

Posted by Leetle Masha (# 8209) on :
 
I wouldn't think that was the only reason, Mousethief, if indeed the Russian and Antiochian churches are taking in more new members.

Some Antiochian churches I've visited don't do much better with Byzantine chant than that deacon did, and when the chant is in Arabic, it is even more difficult for English-speakers to appreciate. That's just the way the cookie crumbles, I suppose.

A question was asked earlier about what that Greek Catholic deacon was wearing. He was wearing a diaconal stole and a dalmatic, made of cloth of gold (I think), cut in the Byzantine style. Byzantine vestments are derived from the court dress of the Imperial Court in Constantinople.

Leetle M.
 

---

Posted by MarkthePunk (# 683) on :
 
The Greek singers weren't so hot either.

On the other hand, I thought the homily was excellent.

You know, I can see that popery just might get real tempting to a number of conservative Anglo-Caths.

Gag! They are having a prayer in French now! I thought the Catholic Church had long ago cast off French domination!

Makes me wish the Cartholicks would chuck Vatican II and go back to Latin!
 

---

Posted by Leetle Masha (# 8209) on :
 
The "Greek Singers" Mark mentions are also Greek Catholics, rather than Greek Orthodox.

The Orthodox had representatives there, but those representatives took no active part in the service except to exchange the Peace.

Leetle M.
 

---

Posted by MarkthePunk (# 683) on :
 
There aren't that many Greek Catholics around, are they? Are they about as common as Italian Presbyterians? Maybe that's why they had trouble finding any who could chant or sing.
 

---

Posted by Chapelhead (# 1143) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by stbruno:
Was it just me or did the litany end with an appeal to St Benedict?

---

You are correct, it did.
 

---

Posted by Archimandrite (# 3997) on :
 
I say, is His Holiness's brother wearing a mantelletta?
 

---

Posted by Ogre (# 4601) on :
 
A nice photo: and very interesting. Has His Holiness Pope Bendict XVI's brother Fr Georg Ratzinger been bumped up to Protonotary Apostolic within the past week; or has he been a Monsignor for some time? I gather he was an eminent musican and priest, being Director of Music at Regensberg Cathedral for thirty years (1964-94).
 

---

Posted by Pre-cambrian (# 2055) on :
 
My understanding is that St John Lateran is still the cathedral of Rome. Does anyone know if popes still get enthroned there, and if there are any plans for Benedict XVI?
 

---

Posted by Archimandrite (# 3997) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ogre:
A nice photo: and very interesting. Has His Holiness Pope Bendict XVI's brother Fr Georg Ratzinger been bumped up to Protonotary Apostolic within the past week; or has he been a Monsignor for some time? I gather he was an eminent musican and priest, being Director of Music at Regensberg Cathedral for thirty years (1964-94).

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Pre-cambrian:
My understanding is that St John Lateran is still the cathedral of Rome. Does anyone know if popes still get enthroned there, and if there are any plans for Benedict XVI?

---

quote:

---

The Pope will take possession of his Chair ("incatedratio"), the Basilica of St. John Lateran, cathedral of the Diocese of Rome, on May 7.

---

FCB
 

---

Posted by shareman (# 2871) on :
 
So was it just the coverage that the Vatican beamed to North America, or did every English language news source have the Papal inauguration with a very annoying and verbose voiceover? A North American sounding personage gave a blow by blow discription of everything that was happening, translations of all the Latin, and identified whoever the camera cast its gaze upon. The music was thus inaudible, as was the Latin, and I stopped watching after the Collect, it was that bad!

At one point, he informed us we were hearing the choir sing the Litany of the Saints. Well, we weren't, we were listening to him talk about which bishop was which and translating the response, and missed the whole thing nearly, not helped my my ineffectual cries of "Shut the %$#%$#%$# up."
 

---

Posted by Basselope (# 9175) on :
 
The voice-overs of Raymond Arroyo and Father Neuhaus during EWTN's coverage of JPII's funeral were overpowering and obnoxious. At least Christine Amanpour and Anderson Cooper on CNN allowed me to hear what was going on at the funeral, while the former two were more interested in talking everyone to death.
 

---

Posted by shareman (# 2871) on :
 
This seemed to be different, though. CBC had two commentators for the funeral, but the actual footage of the funeral itself had a different voice, the same as for the inauguration. I assumed this was a voiceover done "at source" rather than inserted by CBC, especially since coverage on another channel had the same voice. The exerpts I saw on BBC world service didn't have the voiceover, so I'm not sure how this situation developed. I am trying to figure this out, so that I can chastise the right source via a "Disgusted, Tunbridge Wells" type email. "Whom do I sue?"
 

---

Posted by Ariel (# 58) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by shareman:
So was it just the coverage that the Vatican beamed to North America, or did every English language news source have the Papal inauguration with a very annoying and verbose voiceover?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Spiffy da Wonder Sheep:
I am a bad, naughty double poster, and here's a much better picture of the fancy hat.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by jlg:
Did La Reina Sofia in that all-white get-up with veil remind anyone else of an overgrown First Communion girl?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ariel:

quote:

---

Originally posted by shareman:
So was it just the coverage that the Vatican beamed to North America, or did every English language news source have the Papal inauguration with a very annoying and verbose voiceover?

---

The BBC did it rather well, I thought. Most of the service was broadcast without interruption. Now and again one of the people in the studio would comment - in addition to the reporter assigned to it, they had one theologian, a nun and an archbishop (Vincent Nicholls, Birmingham). They didn't comment often, but Vincent Nicholls did help the reporter out now and again and I found his remarks thoughtful and interesting. Obviously he was a lot more familiar with what was going on than the reporter.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Pendragon:
that sounded like Huw Edwards (newsreader/official occasion commentator to me.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ariel:
they had one theologian

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Spiffy da Wonder Sheep:
One last hat picture, I promise.

---

That's not a hat picture, it's a watch picture.
 

---

Posted by Chapelhead (# 1143) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by anglicanrascal:
That's not a hat picture, it's a watch picture.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by jlg:
My TiVo recording clocks it at 35 minutes.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Newman's Own:
Who was who?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by jlg:
Did La Reina Sofia in that all-white get-up with veil remind anyone else of an overgrown First Communion girl?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Pre-cambrian:
My understanding is that St John Lateran is still the cathedral of Rome. Does anyone know if popes still get enthroned there, and if there are any plans for Benedict XVI?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sacristan:

quote:

---

Originally posted by jlg:
Did La Reina Sofia in that all-white get-up with veil remind anyone else of an overgrown First Communion girl?

---

HRH is entitled to the privilege du blanc as are other Roman Catholic queens and the Grand Duchess of Luxenbourg.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Adeodatus:
I loved reading the report, by the way, except the bit about Benedict looking old and tired. I was struck how sprightly and happy he looked, for a man of his age faced with the vocation he has now to fulfil.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Archbishop Paddy O'Laud:
Pallii plural of pallium

---

© Ship of Fools 2016


UBB.classic^TM 6.5.0