Thread: AS: Fertility Problems II Board: Limbo / Ship of Fools.


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Posted by Grits (# 4169) on :
 
Posting as Host:
Here is a nice, new thread for those interested in discussing the questions and concerns of the OP:
quote:
Originally posted by perceval:
It's terrible to want a child and not be able to give birth to one or father one.

How can our beliefs help us deal with this predicament?

It would be great if we could discuss this question with an open mind.

Some personal background:
I'm 29, and I've been trying to conceive a child since October 2001. Nobody knows why I'm failing.

I've stopped asking God for children who share my genes. Instead, I'm asking what I'm meant to be doing instead of giving birth, and I'm praying that S/He prepare me for whatever is in store for me. As an interesting side effect, I've also become allergic to any talk of "hope in Christ" and moved away from traditional Christianity.

This is how I'm dealing with my childlessness.

My partner refuses to acknowledge the problem as such; he's convinced that one day, we will have a house full of kids. That's how he deals with it.

How are you dealing with your fertility problems a s a Christian? How have you as Christians supported friends or family who couldn't conceive?
Do you have or witness crises of faith that are triggered by infertility?
[Votive]
percival

(P.S.: I consulted an admin before starting this thread. I hope this opening statement is OK.)

Grits
All Saints Host

[ 08. October 2007, 15:11: Message edited by: Alan Cresswell ]
 
Posted by perceval (# 4742) on :
 
Even though I bow before Hostly authority, I would like to respectfully disagree with Grits. (I've also PMed her).

The old thread evolved into a safe space for infertile shipmates to discuss their predicament - sometimes with more reference to their beliefs, sometimes with less. It's important to grant shipmates with fertility problems that space on the ship, because often enough, their congregations just can't support them adequately. (For proof, see pages I-XX of the old thread.) But the Ship community can, and discussions of GP visits, IVF cycles, and :votive:s from shipmates wandering by are all part of that process of Christian support and love, and just as spiritual as theological discussions.

Infertility is a long journey, which is reflected by the thread, and I feel privileged to have been part of the journeys of Suusan, Bronwyn, Vikki Pollard's daughter, or Suze, to name but a few.

That said, starting a new incarnation was a good idea; 20 pages ARE very unwieldy. Would it be possible to rename this thread Fertility Problems II, by the way?

perceval
 
Posted by Grits (# 4169) on :
 
I have no problem with the discussion continuing as it is, as long as it remains a support thread for those dealing with infertility. Of course, all comments do not have to be of a spiritual nature, and I did not mean to imply that (although the original OP certainly does). There are certainly other helpful ways to cope.

This is a very sensitive subject, and I would just remind everyone that we need to treat it as such. Thanks, ladies (and gents!)

Grits
A.S. Host
 
Posted by Bronwyn (# 52) on :
 
Oh dear been suspecting the thread would close for a while the nature of these boards. Will have to get Sean to save it for me as it is my journey. Although something which to a lot of people mean squat is is my journey. My real emotions and feelings as well as the fact I have nutted out a lot more beliefs and learnt a lot. Been suported by people who really understand.

BTW had the tinyist bit of bleeding this morning but it is gone now. Pain has been constantly bad so can not reley on that. The distiny of this child is in God's hands.
 
Posted by duchess (# 2764) on :
 
Damn! I am praying Browyn dear.
 
Posted by Erin (# 2) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by perceval:
The old thread evolved into a safe space for infertile shipmates to discuss their predicament - sometimes with more reference to their beliefs, sometimes with less. It's important to grant shipmates with fertility problems that space on the ship, because often enough, their congregations just can't support them adequately.

OK, I need to set the record straight on this. This post is in fact what prompted the current sticky thread here in AS.

That the Ship has performed this function for you and others is a good thing, and I'm glad you were able to draw support from it. However -- and this is a big however -- the public boards are not a space to make up for lack of sensitivity by real life congregations. These are public discussion boards, open to all, and no thread is exempt from that. Do not do not DO NOT rely on a thread on a public board for unwavering support and understanding. We don't grant "safe spaces" for anyone here, no matter how sensitive the subject at hand. If you want that, you can pony up for a private board like others have and weed out who's allowed to participate.

Placing these sorts of expectations on the Ship, and the AS hostesses in particular, is unrealistic and unfair. I know I'm being the bad guy here, but I'm more than a little irritated that the AS hostesses are being uncharitably characterized for doing their jobs. If we want to get down to brass tacks, support threads are outside of the remit of All Saints. We're content to let them stay for the moment, but if people start hammering the AS hostesses for encouraging discussion on a discussion board, we may well have to revisit that policy.

If you wish to take this up any further, do so in the Styx.

Erin
Community editor
 
Posted by Dee-nz (# 5681) on :
 
[Votive]
For Bron,

Please God.
 
Posted by Bronwyn (# 52) on :
 
Thanks for your suport. Life is going ok the morning sickness is REALLY kicking in. Really grateful Sean has managed to get the time of the ultrasound off. Couldn't have done it alone...My boss has managed to rearange my roster too so I dont have to work. That was a stress in case it was bad news.
 
Posted by Jane R (# 331) on :
 
Grits' and Erin's comments have been duly noted (we're not safe anywhere; same as real life, then...)

Just checking in to note that I lit a real candle in Southwell Minster on Saturday for Bronwyn, Selah and Chukovsky. Have a virtual one as well [Votive]

Jane R
 
Posted by Jane R (# 331) on :
 
Sorry for the double post, but I just reread what I said about the hosts' comments and it sounds a bit snide. It wasn't intended that way; I know you do a very difficult job and get very little thanks for it (and certainly not as much as you deserve!)

And I do take your point about these boards being public... I don't think I've posted anything that I wouldn't want to be general knowledge, (if only to stop the questions 'Are you planning to have any more?') Only sometimes, you can't get the words out IRL [Frown]

Jane R
 
Posted by Suze (# 5639) on :
 
[Votive] Bron, praying all goes well - morning sickness is a good thing [Biased] .

For my part, I was away at the weekend, went to a concert where the artist played a very touching song about parenthood, how much he loved his kids etc etc and I was hit by a huge wave of "I want that too". Haven't felt that strongly for ages and ages so it really caught me off guard, spent the rest of the night in tears and really shaky - just when I think I'm doing well again.... [Waterworks] .

Life just feels quite crap just now and this is another crap thing on top of lots of crap things *delves into the depths of self pity*.
 
Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :
 
Jane, thanks for your understanding.

You all are in many, many prayers, please believe that. [Votive]
 
Posted by chukovsky (# 116) on :
 
We are going to a service on Sunday for people who have lost a baby. I know it's a bit late to be telling people this, but in the UK there are a number of similar events across the country in October, I don't know if other countries organise this type of thing. Also don't know why our local service is in November... [Roll Eyes]
 
Posted by Bronwyn (# 52) on :
 
What a lovely idea. I wish we had it here. Might suggest it. If you go to the service could you say a prayer for those who post here? Not even by name just a general prayer. Although our babies may not be very big when we lost them they are still lost.
 
Posted by chukovsky (# 116) on :
 
Absolutely - we will remember you all.
 
Posted by Bronwyn (# 52) on :
 
Thanks so much.

Getting so nervous about thursday now finding it hard to sleep and so on. I know it will or wont work but I am so enjoying being pregnant and my dreaming is so real just if it doesnt work I couldn't bear it.
 
Posted by Dee-nz (# 5681) on :
 
[Votive]
 
Posted by Zappa (# 8433) on :
 
[Votive]
 
Posted by Petrified (# 10667) on :
 
[Votive] for thursday
 
Posted by perceval (# 4742) on :
 
Erin, thank you for making those points - it's true that a public message board can never be as safe as a meatspace group or a closed forum, and it's also very true that hosts have lives outside the Ship.

And to the host who renamed the thread - thank you, too [Smile]

Chukovsky, the parish I used to attend in Germany also had masses for miscarried and stillborn babies. I think that this is a great idea.

In the course of praying for the people on this thread, I've been wondering what to pray for and how to pray. Generally, my prayer has been along the lines of "Lord give them strength." instead of "Please help them conceive". The latter smacks too much of the idea that people have fertility problems because that is God's divine plan for them. When you see that people are praying, what do you want them to pray for? A baby for you, strength for the journey, peace of mind?

(When I was still trying to conceive, I also prayed for the strength not to be throw a hissy fit at teenage mums chain-smoking over their babys' prams.)
 
Posted by Jane R (# 331) on :
 
Perceval said
quote:
When you see that people are praying, what do you want them to pray for? A baby for you, strength for the journey, peace of mind?

(When I was still trying to conceive, I also prayed for the strength not to be throw a hissy fit at teenage mums chain-smoking over their babys' prams.)

I like the serenity prayer; God grant me the courage to change the things I can change, the serenity to accept the things I can't and the wisdom to know the difference. Not just applicable to fertility problems, either.

The Christmas after we discovered IVF was the only option for us I spent a lot of time praying for strength - my sister had just had her second baby after many years of heartache trying to conceive. Of course I was happy for her, but it took a lot of effort not to scream 'It should have been me, dammit!' every time we met...

But I really checked in to leave a [Votive] for Bronwyn's scan tomorrow.

Jane R
 
Posted by Tina (# 63) on :
 
[Votive] for everyone, and a special one for Bron and Sean today.
 
Posted by Bronwyn (# 52) on :
 
Sean and I wnnt for the scan. The dr even showed up which meant the usual nurse could not be rude.

Anyway guess what? I am seven weeks pregnant and the baby is the right size and has a very regular heart beat. Thanks for all your prayers and guess as well as posting here I can qualify for the shipmates expecting thread.


[Axe murder] [Axe murder] [Axe murder]
 
Posted by Grits (# 4169) on :
 
Congratulations. I am very happy for you.
 
Posted by Left at the Altar (# 5077) on :
 
Bron, that is fantastic news. I now look forward to reading your progress. Just great! [Big Grin]
 
Posted by Nutmeg (# 5297) on :
 
Bron that is just fantastic. [Yipee] . All the best to both of you. How exciting. Now you can really celebrate. [Big Grin]
 
Posted by Jerry Boam (# 4551) on :
 
Fantastic news.

Will continue to pray for health for you and the tiny life you carry.

[Votive] [Votive] [Votive]
 
Posted by Tyler Durden (# 2996) on :
 
Bronwyn, I only started reading this thread today (having not read the previous one) but I was so pleased to hear your news and, like others, will continue to pray for you all.
 
Posted by Amos (# 44) on :
 
Bron, I'll be praying for you and Sean and your little one every day--I've scarcely dared to breathe this last week! [Votive] [Axe murder] [Votive]
 
Posted by Jillyb (# 4610) on :
 
Oh Bron how wonderful. Keeping you all in our prayers [Big Grin]
 
Posted by Vikki Pollard (# 5548) on :
 
[Big Grin] [Waterworks] [Tear] [Axe murder] [Overused] [Yipee] [Waterworks] [Votive]
 
Posted by Flausa (# 3466) on :
 
(((Bronwyn, little one, Sean))) [Smile]
 
Posted by Jenny Ann (# 3131) on :
 
Congrats Bron!

J
 
Posted by Suze (# 5639) on :
 
Wow, I came on here to pop a prayer for your scan, forgetting we're behind you time wise.

What brilliant, lovely, wonderful news Bron - praying the best for you, your hubby and your little one. [Yipee] [Yipee] [Yipee]
 
Posted by ferijen (# 4719) on :
 
What Suze said... I was thinking 'it's December 1st', not 'it's December 1st in the evening over there!'

[Yipee] [Yipee] [Yipee]

I've got a big smile on my face now!

[ 01. December 2005, 08:01: Message edited by: ferijen ]
 
Posted by Derf (# 2093) on :
 
Bron, that's fabulous news, praying that all continues to go well.

[Yipee]
 
Posted by babybear (# 34) on :
 
We are delighted with this news. May you have a smooth, trouble-free pregnacny. We shall of course be praying for you, and also for the others who would love to be in your position just now.
 
Posted by Jane R (# 331) on :
 
Bron, that's wonderful news! (Why isn't there a fireworks smiley?!) [Axe murder]

Sing hey for the joys of morning sickness, backache and galloping indigestion!

[Yipee]

Jane R
 
Posted by Moth (# 2589) on :
 
Congratulations, Bron! I've been praying for you, and it's wonderful news!
 
Posted by Astro (# 84) on :
 
Congratulations that's wonderful news!
Praying for you.
 
Posted by chukovsky (# 116) on :
 
Aww..... that's great news!
 
Posted by Pânts (# 999) on :
 
And a [Votive] for those who read this wonderful news and wish it were them.
 
Posted by perceval (# 4742) on :
 
yes, Yes, YES!!!!!

[Yipee] [Yipee] [Yipee]

perceval
 
Posted by Auntie Doris (# 9433) on :
 
Hurray hurray!!! [Big Grin]

Auntie Doris x
 
Posted by Eloise (# 4292) on :
 
Congratulations Bron and Sean.
 
Posted by welsh dragon (# 3249) on :
 
Many congrats tis wonderful [Smile]
 
Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :
 
Just came over here from the praise thread...


Congratulations, Bronwyn and Sean! [Yipee]
 
Posted by Dee-nz (# 5681) on :
 
[Axe murder] [Yipee] Woopeeee [Yipee] [Axe murder]

Oh Wow, I am so excited, that isjust brilliant news. Am praying for a happy healthy trouble free pregnancy.

Congratulations Bron Sean and wee squeeker
 
Posted by Caz... (# 3026) on :
 
Hey Bron, I have tears in my eyes right now. I am so thrilled for you guys.

Now REST UP!! [Big Grin]

Praying for your health and protection.

Caz [Big Grin] [Big Grin] [Big Grin]
 
Posted by Puppycat (# 4941) on :
 
Congratulations to Bron and Sean and the bub. Continuing prayers for everyone on this thread. [Votive]
 
Posted by Bronwyn (# 52) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Pânts:
And a [Votive] for those who read this wonderful news and wish it were them.

[Votive] My thoughts are with people who struggle in this area and I will never forget the love support and strain it has been in the last 4 years. Thankyou.
 
Posted by chukovsky (# 116) on :
 
It's getting a bit echo-y in here..
 
Posted by Suze (# 5639) on :
 
It is, isn't it. 2005 has been a good year for the fertility thread dwellers - don't think there are too many of us left any more.
 
Posted by Jengie Jon (# 273) on :
 
Bronwyn:

FAN-TAS-TIC!

Chukovsky:

I doubt it is as empty as you think, I suspect there will always be someone lurking in a corner of this thread. Not quite sure if they dare post a "me too" missive. Not much comfort I am afraid, it is a thread I'm sure you'd rather nobody was on including yourself.

Jengie
 
Posted by Lamb Chopped (# 5528) on :
 
Well, I'll be back, I'm sure, in a few months. (That's when we'll be trying again.) So don't shut down altogether!
 
Posted by Scoby2 (# 9822) on :
 
[Votive] [Votive] [Votive]
 
Posted by Selah (# 10665) on :
 
Hi. I guess I lost a month there, didn't I? what happened to the old thread? Is it still somewhere where it can be read? I guess I was/am really coming in on the end of things anyhow.

Bron, congratulations. Enjoy yourself [Smile]

Thank you to the person who lit a candle for me. I am touched.

I am still hanging in there. I guess reading all of the posts here make me sad because it makes me wish we could somehow afford ivf - but we still think God said no to this for us (not for others, just for us). Thanksgiving was really hard as we have no family who want to be with us and we cannot go to them (allergies to pets). Christmas we told our pastor we would love to open our house to anyone else who would like a place to be with people but we have received no takers yet.

Maybe next year. Maybe God will open the door for us to adopt....
 
Posted by chukovsky (# 116) on :
 
Selah, we had a request from our university for people to host international students who can't go home, over Christmas, perhaps somewhere near you has the same needs?
 
Posted by Suze (# 5639) on :
 
Friends of mine have a habit of inviting people for dinner that they know would be spending Christmas alone - that might be another thing to try if you feel you need people around you at this time of year.

LC I've a feeling this thread will be around for time to come.
 
Posted by Bronwyn (# 52) on :
 
Have tried several times to post here to say that I will never stop praying and looking in here. I really do not know what to say.

(((((hugs)))))))

This baby game is like that kids game in that you have to roll a 6 to start then move around, at any time you can be sent back to the beginning through no fault of your own, and sometimes the dice get lost so rolling a six is impossiable.
 
Posted by Jengie Jon (# 273) on :
 
A mother and daughter I know, who have little close family and both are retired, make sure they spend Christmas somewhere else than at home so as to be able to cope. A bit late now perhaps to arrange but worth thinking about.

Jengie
 
Posted by chukovsky (# 116) on :
 
Like I was saying, it's quiet in here.

We have an appointment with a gynaecologist next Friday (13th. Hmm. Well, we met on a Friday 13th and look where that got us!)
 
Posted by Fool of a Took (# 7412) on :
 
I'll be thinking of you, Chukovksy.

[Votive]
 
Posted by Pânts (# 999) on :
 
Ditto. [Votive]
 
Posted by Bronwyn (# 52) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by chukovsky:
Like I was saying, it's quiet in here.

We have an appointment with a gynaecologist next Friday (13th. Hmm. Well, we met on a Friday 13th and look where that got us!)

Chukovsky, I will be thinking and praying for you. I guess I am very positive about some appts with gynes for myself as one finally listened to me, then took my case to a VERY high dr for advice and followed it to the letter except the bit I pushed her to change, then wow I am pregnant!!!!!

Not saying it always happens but it was after 4 years of unsucessful treatment and even the dr is excited I am pregnant she did have a part.

My only advice, ask lots of questions, and if you do not understand anything ask it to be explained to you.
 
Posted by Vikki Pollard (# 5548) on :
 
Praying for you all as well.

May you find peace in your situations and grow in love for your partners - I know that can be very hard. [Votive]
 
Posted by chukovsky (# 116) on :
 
You may have already read on my blog, but it went OK - I have an operation booked for the 6th March. They suggest I take the week off, and I said this to my boss - who said, no, take 10 days!
 
Posted by Gill H (# 68) on :
 
Just to say I'm still around!

Still trying to lose the weight, and hoping that my body kicks itself into action once I do.

Prayers, praises and anything else beginning with p (petunias?) to everyone on this thread.
 
Posted by Pânts (# 999) on :
 
chukovsky, thats fab!

[Votive] for all.
 
Posted by Uriel (# 2248) on :
 
Dear all,

Just dropping in to see how everything is going. Good to hear that things are progressing with some of you - I'm keeping my fingers crossed for Sean, Bron and the little one.

Mrs Uriel and I, having tried for 3 years before having our first child in February 2004 found it easier second time around and now have a little boy. He was born in November and is doing very well. We never spoke to people about our problems when trying for our first, except occasionally posting on the Ship. When Emily was born we were involved in a service at church and said a little bit about our journey. We were later amazed at the number of people in our congregation who had been through a similar experience.

We found it tremendously hard trying for Emily, and the months while Mrs Uriel was pregnant were very scary - we interpreted everything as a sign that things might be going wrong. But now we have our two we are very glad that we managed to keep going through a very difficult, often lonely time.

With love and prayers,

Uriel.
 
Posted by Bronwyn (# 52) on :
 
Just also wanted to put my thoughts into words. Gill I pray that weight just falls off. Chukovsky that you are calm before the operation and it is a sucess.
Vickki's Daughter as she struggles with pain and life.
Lambed Chopped, Scooby and Selah.
A silent battle which we can not talk about freely with so many. A pain which often hurts when we see a child with a parent, a pregnant woman or a child who has been hurt or abused, or an unwanted child. Hugs to those battlers.
 
Posted by Suze (# 5639) on :
 
A first for me last night. I was out for dinner with a friend and was able to talk calmly about my feelings of not having children. No tears, searing pain or unintelligble sniffling sobbing - just very open, honest chat about what I hoped for and how I'm doing just now. I am really sad, sometimes more than others, but last night's conversation was a real milestone for me.

I don't post much here at the moment, but I always read though. [Votive]
 
Posted by Dee-nz (# 5681) on :
 
[Votive] [Votive]

For those of you who are still here and still struggling. Well done for achieving such an empowering milestone Suze...I admire you all so much...you are a really brave bunch of people!

[Axe murder]
 
Posted by babybear (# 34) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Bronwyn:
A silent battle which we can not talk about freely with so many. A pain which often hurts when we see a child with a parent, a pregnant woman or a child who has been hurt or abused, or an unwanted child. Hugs to those battlers.

Bron, I would like to adapt this to use in prayers of intercession. Would this be okay?

Continued prayers for those posting on this thread.

bb
 
Posted by Bronwyn (# 52) on :
 
Of course you can Babybear. Was reminded just how hard it is being an infertile person at church on Sunday. Sean had refused payment for a small job (cost him less than $5 Australian to do). He actually had gone home as we had brought seperate cars. It was mentioned to me. I said if Sean has made that decision fine with me Sean and I are quite happy to make independent decisions about money even large amounts. He then went on to say now we will be needing all the money we can get as a baby is coming. I say we will cope and he went on to say this one is only the beginning...one day you will be comming here with a whole heard of children and we will sigh and wonder how we will cope. I say this is in all likelyhood our only one and he continues to say God will provide ect...I actually feel at this point a bit of frustration as I protest that I do know my medical history. (Although frustrated I am not offended yet) The bit that offended me was his wife who was trying to calm the situation down by saying 'Bronwyn is a nurse she THINKS she knows about things'

I gave up knowing I would say something I would regret if I didn't like last time this lady had said something. My hearts desire would be to have a few children maybe 4 but the reality is I will never have them. We have one stored embryo frozen and maybe it will work but probably we will only have this one.

My thoughts and prayers went out and continue to those others who have suffered this treatment, been told things like trust in God, heard one too many times a story of a miricle conceptions, 'helpful' comments about how babies come (as if any infertile couple do not know how to um cuddle) The frustrations of the waiting for results, the pain emotional and physical of treatment and the cost. And most of all the loneliness and heartache of realising it hasn't worked and the clinic making you have a blood test anyway. The crying out to God in the night why?, the feelings it is my fault as I am the infertile one. The feelings of guilt that in the past I had not looked after myself, which may have contributed to issues now. The depression and tears. The emotions which come with hearing of a sucess and the question of 'why not me?' when someone concieves and making that effort to congratulate them

My thoughts and prayers are with all who suffer.
 
Posted by duchess (# 2764) on :
 
((((Bronwyn))))
 
Posted by chukovsky (# 116) on :
 
Well done Bron for not slapping them...

As for me, my op is Monday and I'm currently planning my daytime TV watching for my week off work... all other tests seem to be normal...
 
Posted by Jane R (# 331) on :
 
[Votive] for Chukovsky.

And [Overused] to Bronwyn for not ripping the man's arm off and beating him to death with it. I would have done. Still, you mustn't overexert yourself, must you? [Biased]

Jane R
 
Posted by madferret (# 3353) on :
 
Just letting everyone know that Chukovsky had her op today. All went well and no problems discovered.

She is still a bit groggy from the anasthetic but recovering with the aid of painkillers & chocolate!
 
Posted by Bronwyn (# 52) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by madferret:
Just letting everyone know that Chukovsky had her op today. All went well and no problems discovered.

She is still a bit groggy from the anasthetic but recovering with the aid of painkillers & chocolate!

Let her rest and big hugs OXOXOXO. Give her my love too if you remember.
 
Posted by Vikki Pollard (# 5548) on :
 
Oh that's great news! SO glad there was no endo!! [Yipee]

Give her my love, please.

Vikki xxx

P.S. I'd have slapped her, Bron! In the Lord, obviously, for her spiritual growth. You could almost say it would have been a prophetic slap.

And THEN you could have blamed your hormones!

[Two face]

[ 07. March 2006, 07:52: Message edited by: Vikki Pollard ]
 
Posted by Pânts (# 999) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by madferret:
Just letting everyone know that Chukovsky had her op today. All went well and no problems discovered.

She is still a bit groggy from the anasthetic but recovering with the aid of painkillers & chocolate!

[Big Grin]
 
Posted by Vikki Pollard (# 5548) on :
 
Both intravenous? [Ultra confused]
 
Posted by chukovsky (# 116) on :
 
No - both orally administered!

I'm feeling a lot less groggy now, but posting this sitting up in bed from my laptop.
 
Posted by Vikki Pollard (# 5548) on :
 
Great to see you back!

REeeeeeeeeeeest!! [Smile] [Axe murder]
 
Posted by Michèle (# 1401) on :
 
[Votive] for all who post, and for all who don't.

x
 
Posted by Pânts (# 999) on :
 
Funny, I was thinking about this thread earlier too.

[Votive]
 
Posted by Gill H (# 68) on :
 
So was I. I prayed for two people with PCOS last night and spent much of the time trying not to burst into tears.

Prayers for all.
 
Posted by Bronwyn (# 52) on :
 
Hugs and prayers. People who suffer infertility are always on my mind.

[Axe murder] [Votive] [Axe murder] [Votive] [Axe murder] [Votive]

It is something so close to my heart, a silent battle.
 
Posted by chukovsky (# 116) on :
 
Thank you Bronwyn - some people say that you never stop being infertile, even if you end up bearing children.
 
Posted by Cranmer's baggage (# 1662) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by chukovsky:
Thank you Bronwyn - some people say that you never stop being infertile, even if you end up bearing children.

I think there's truth in that. Certainly, I've never forgotten the experience of infertility, and I hope the memory makes me more sensitive to others who are walking the same road. I guess another issue for those of us with PCOS or similar causes to our infertility is that even when we finally have children, we still have a lifetime of living with the condition.

[Votive] for all those facing the challenge of infertility.
 
Posted by Lamb Chopped (# 5528) on :
 
Yes, it's true.

Even today, in the deepest core of myself I still think of myself as a infertile and childless person. I just happen to have a child now.
 
Posted by Bronwyn (# 52) on :
 
Yes I hadn't really thought about it as an infertile woman but yes I might have a child inside me I will always be infertile. I as an infertile person will not end the story with and then I had a baby and everything was alright...leaving the many people behind who happen to have not 'hit the jackpot, been lucky or whatever, we are in this together.
 
Posted by Vikki Pollard (# 5548) on :
 
Thanks for that insight. I'll try and remember that when I talk to people with such problems.

I wonder though if people who have never managed to have children would see you as infertile still? I somehow doubt it. It must stir up all kinds of issues for them and you as you interact.

I read this thread and pray for people often, too.

Lucy may well still have issues in this area. At the very least her condition (2 wombs, only the smaller one connected to an ovary, possibility of other things connected with endo) gives rise to a much higher miscarriage rate.

But as Holly said, "Anyone can have problems. Lucy might sail through with lots of help and I might be walking round just not yet knowing I will never have kids."

She doesn't take it for granted. I suppose if there is any silver at all in this horrendous situation some of you are in, it is that others around might learn not to make assumptions about their own fertility or underate the precious gift which is matching eggs and sperm doing their thang when they ought.

[Tear] [Votive]

[ 02. April 2006, 08:12: Message edited by: Vikki Pollard ]
 
Posted by chukovsky (# 116) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Vikki Pollard:
I wonder though if people who have never managed to have children would see you as infertile still? I somehow doubt it. It must stir up all kinds of issues for them and you as you interact.

I think that may depend on a lot of things: how you see yourself, how you interact with other people, and how sensitive you are, importantly whether you are trying to have more children: for some people, having a second or subsequent child is only going to mean the same heartache and pain.

And for some people, discovering they cannot bear children leads fairly quickly to a decision not to do so, with relatively easy acceptance of this; either to remain fairly happily child-free, or to adopt children.

For others infertility is only discovered after having one or more children easily (secondary infertility - some people would classify infertility after miscarriage in the same way). This is much less well understood, as people think if you've got pregnant easily once, you're bound to do so again.

If anyone in the UK has been watching The Family Man, I thought it quite interesting they had a woman with secondary infertility, as this is rarely addressed.
 
Posted by Suze (# 5639) on :
 
I think the secondary infertility issue is an interesting one that seems to run in my family. Both my mum and sister got pregnant with their first child very easily indeed but really struggled thereafter. Although my mum had five children, it was over the course of 20 years having never used any kind of birth control. My sister never had any other children. To be honest I've never really thought of either of them as infertile because they both have at least one child but I suppose medically they are.

quote:
And for some people, discovering they cannot bear children leads fairly quickly to a decision not to do so, with relatively easy acceptance of this; either to remain fairly happily child-free, or to adopt children.
I guess this is where I am now, although not having children was neither a quick or easy decision and accepting that I won't have children isn't an easy thing at all - but for my own sanity I needed to decide whether to go through the endless rounds of IVF/adoption process neither of which have any guarantee for success with all the raised/dashed hopes that go along with it or accept that this wasn't part of my plan and see where I end up. I simply don't have the emotional energy to go through it all.

I don't know how I see women how have suffered infertility who then go on to have children - many of whom have posted on here. I'm always delighted to see Bron and Perceval and others posting but I guess I'm still struggling with the idea that God's answer to infertility will always be to give a child. I simply don't believe that though just about every book I've read and every sermon I've heard on infertility starts with "we tried for so long and begged God to give us children" and ends with "now we have little Amy/Josh/whoever... God is sooo good". An offshoot of the prosperity gospel thing I suppose but I don't hear people saying "this is a sore pain that doesn't go but God eases it over time and makes it bearable". That's where I am, hoping that God will, in time, make it bearable.

Woah, that was more than I meant - have been on a weekend away where I've been really struck by how much I'm still struggling with this. Bugger.
 
Posted by Bronwyn (# 52) on :
 
Hugs and prayers Suze. Anything I say you have heard before.

[Votive] [Votive] [Angel] [Angel]
 
Posted by Pânts (# 999) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Suze:
...- have been on a weekend away where I've been really struck by how much I'm still struggling with this. Bugger.

[Votive]
 
Posted by babybear (# 34) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by chukovsky:
I thought it quite interesting they had a woman with secondary infertility, as this is rarely addressed.

This is the position my cousin was in. She had no problems becoming pregnant with her first child, infact she was shocked how quickly she became pregnant.

When her little girl was 2 my cousin decided to try again. She kept on trying for 2 years, and then she went through the various fertility treatments.

However, she only told her Mum because her brother and his wife and my brother and his wife were also going through fertility treatment. As she already had a beautiful, healthy girl she didn't feel able to discuss it with the others. She felt greedy and grasping.

My family has been exceptionally lucky with IVF and each couple now has two children born as a result. Of the 12 children in my extended family 6 of them are IVF babies. Given the success rates of IVF, I am amazed.
 
Posted by chukovsky (# 116) on :
 
Well, sorry to resurrect this thread (again!) but rather than clog up the prayer thread, thought I'd say I'm at home again having had a couple of days' TLC at my mum's, and it is very hard - I don't really feel like doing very much - I have said I'll take a week off work, which seemed like plenty at the start of the week, but now I'm not so sure.
 
Posted by Jengie Jon (# 273) on :
 
Chukovsky

If you need longer I would take it. Get a GP to sign you off if neccessary. You need time both for grief and for recovery. Going back too early only tends to prolong the processes.

Jengie
 
Posted by Caz... (# 3026) on :
 
So deeply sad and sorry to hear your news, Chukovsky. I would second Jengie - take as long as you need and not a moment less. You are more important than any job, any to do list. Seriously.

Praying that God would be near you.
 
Posted by Jane R (# 331) on :
 
[Votive] for Suze and Chukovsky.

Jane R
 
Posted by chukovsky (# 116) on :
 
Saw the GP, who was actually helpful for a change - I'm to ring on Monday if I don't feel up to work and he'll sort me out a sick note without needing to make another appointment. I still need to have a scan to make sure it was "complete", and get a tertiary referral from the consultant.
 
Posted by Pânts (# 999) on :
 
[Votive]
 
Posted by Dee. (# 5681) on :
 
[Votive]
 
Posted by Bronwyn (# 52) on :
 
No words can express the feelings of greif I have. [Waterworks] [Waterworks] [Votive] [Votive] [Votive] Hugs.

Why God Why???????
 
Posted by Suze (# 5639) on :
 
Have been away so I've only just caught up. So sorry chukovsky, my prayers are with you just now. [Votive]
 
Posted by duchess (# 2764) on :
 
chukovsky [Frown] [Votive]
 
Posted by Jane R (# 331) on :
 
Sorry to resurrect this thread again, but still thinking about what Suze said...

I couldn't understand, when my sister was trying for her second child (she had secondary infertility; at one point a doctor told her there was no point in carrying on trying because she was going through the menopause*) why she was so worked up about it when she already had one child. I do now. Reminding myself that I already have The Most Beautiful And Perfect Toddler In the World (tm) doesn't help much; it just adds an extra layer of guilt, as I remember all the other people on this thread who don't have any children at all.

Someone else at church has just had her third baby, which reminded me that if Second Sprog had survived I'd have been giving birth myself about now. [Frown]

Another [Votive] for Chukovsky, and all those who are still trying.

And a [Votive] for those who are trying to reconcile themselves to childlessness.

Jane R

* I thought she should go back with all three children and blow a raspberry at him, but she didn't think it was worth the effort.
 
Posted by chukovsky (# 116) on :
 
Jane, due dates are always incredibly hard - we'll be thinking of you. When no.1 would have been due, we went off on holiday to sunny climes in an effort to avoid sitting around thinking about it.
 
Posted by Jane R (# 331) on :
 
Thanks, Chukovsky. I've been thinking of you too.

We are going on holiday at the end of the week, as it happens; we are having a holiday on the beach. In Scotland. Some may think us mad... but we have plenty of waterproofs, and if we wait until July/August it will be infested with midges. There are plenty of rock pools for the small girl to investigate, so she will have fun whatever the weather.

Jane R
 
Posted by Bronwyn (# 52) on :
 
Jane, I remember when I was pregnant the first time I had a friend who was also pregnant. When I lost the baby which she knew about it was very hard. Actually I stopped contacting her for about 18 months as it was too hard. Kept in contact via a mutual friend.

Take it easy and enjoy your holiday.

Chukovsky you are in my thoughts and prayers at this time. OXOXOXOX
 
Posted by Michelle (# 53) on :
 
Well, I think I need to bring this thread back to life...

I've been reading it steadily (lurking) and now it is time to post (given that I've just consigned a bunch of people to hell about it)!

My story:

Married to my best pal in April 2005. Started trying to reproduce immediately as I'm 35 and R is 37. Got pregnant quickly (in June): felt guilty. Had a miscarriage at 11 weeks (although the embryo had died around 6 weeks, it took my body an amazingly long time to figure it out). Very hard to cope with, as we were nearing the second trimester "tell everybody" mark.

But okay. Doctors say it happens very often. Not my fault. Nothing I could have done. Try to believe that.

Once ready, get pregnant again very quickly (end of December). Again feel guilty. Have miscarriage at 8 weeks.

I take antidepressants for clinical depression anyway, so second loss sends me for a loop. Off work for two weeks, work half time for next six weeks because I just can't cope.

Have wonderful invasive, painful and humiliating tests. Doctor surmises it is luteal phase deficiency. Take hormones after ovulating until menstruating or if pregnant, keep taking until 10 to 12 weeks.

Doc says, off you go, try again.

Yes. I should be happy. It is the best case scenario, something wrong that is relatively easily remedied. I want to have a baby more than anything in the world.

So why am I tearful and terrified? What if it isn't this? Oh God, I don't know if I can cope with another loss. I am a church minister and for the second loss, I felt I had to tell my people as I was talking so much time off, and I didn't want to be off with some "mystery illness" that would get them all anxious and paranoid. But it was so public, and about such a private thing. And it was hard to hear so many well-meaning but useless (at best) and hurtful (at worst) comments from my congregants.

My partner R doesn't really understand, but he at least knows that he doesn't really understand. He can somenow not invest in the pregnancy until he can see a scan. I just can't do that. If it's in me, I love it, I want it, I pray for it.

I know I just have to get over it and try again. Time is passing and the old eggs are just getting older every day... I'm just so afraid. [Waterworks] And then I feel so guilty because we don't have a problem conceiving, and so many people do...

Anyway, I just needed to share finally.

Prayers for me and R please as we work through this together.
 
Posted by Dee. (# 5681) on :
 
[Votive] [Votive]

For Michelle and R. I cant imagine how difficult this must be.
 
Posted by babybear (# 34) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Michelle:
So why am I tearful and terrified?

Might it have something to do with the fact that you have had two miscarriages in the past year? A miscarriage can knock the stuffing out of people. There is the hormonal toll as well as the emotion one too.

A miscarriage is a strange thing, you are left grieving for a person you have never known. I found that I was grieving for all of the things that might have been, the hope and the dreams.

When I became pregnant again I found it terrifying, the same thing could happen again. It wasn't until I was well passed the stage at which the miscarriage had happened could I allow myself to feel a bit more secure. Then at various times I felt guilty and terrified that something different would go wrong.

At times it seems that guilt is an inevitable side effect of trying to have a baby. I have no idea how to get rid of this guilt though.

quote:
My partner R doesn't really understand, but he at least knows that he doesn't really understand. He can somehow not invest in the pregnancy until he can see a scan. I just can't do that. If it's in me, I love it, I want it, I pray for it.
This I can understand so well. I could feel the difference in my body after just a few days. I knew that I was pregnant and had this mysterious, marvelous baby-creature growing inside me. For Gremlin, he really only had my word for it, and then later the evidence of a couple of chemicals. The pregnancies became real for him when he saw his baby on screen and when he felt his baby moving around and kicking me. This male/female divide seems to be almost universal.

Please know that you are in our prayers. And also even when this thread disappears from view, that we are still praying for you.
 
Posted by neandergirl (# 8916) on :
 
[Votive]
 
Posted by OliviaG (# 9881) on :
 
(((michelle)))
OliviaG
 
Posted by Michelle (# 53) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by babybear:
quote:
Originally posted by Michelle:
So why am I tearful and terrified?

Might it have something to do with the fact that you have had two miscarriages in the past year? A miscarriage can knock the stuffing out of people. There is the hormonal toll as well as the emotion one too.
Yes, I keep having to remind myself that it's been quite a year. We also bought a house and moved during that year so all in all, a lot of change, loss and transition. I somehow feel like I should just be able to get it together, even though I wouldn't think that if it were someone else!

I am finally giving serious thought to having a small memorial service for the two losses. Just our family and close friends in our garden. The hardest thing is not having something substantial that shows that it is real. My doctor suggested getting the two ultrasound scans which I will follow up with. I am also going to order two garden stones with the dates of each pregnancy on it. To put with two mini rose bushes.

As soon as I started planning the memorial service I started to feel better. I think I really need to have that before we try again.


quote:
This I can understand so well. I could feel the difference in my body after just a few days. I knew that I was pregnant and had this mysterious, marvelous baby-creature growing inside me. For Gremlin, he really only had my word for it, and then later the evidence of a couple of chemicals. The pregnancies became real for him when he saw his baby on screen and when he felt his baby moving around and kicking me. This male/female divide seems to be almost universal.
Yes indeed. The best description I read of it was that when you are pregnant, you feel like this mysterious, magical being. Then when you miscarry, it's just gone. And it's worse than if you'd never been pregnant at all, because now you know what it feels like.

quote:
Please know that you are in our prayers. And also even when this thread disappears from view, that we are still praying for you.
Thank you... mostly I ask for courage, the peace of the Lord, and of course, a baby... [Tear]

Many thanks to all who have posted and PM'ed me with their prayers. It means more than I can say.
 
Posted by Pânts (# 999) on :
 
[Votive] Michelle and R [Votive]
 
Posted by Tree Bee (# 4033) on :
 
[Votive] Michelle, R, and your babies. [Frown]
 
Posted by Bronwyn (# 52) on :
 
Having had a couple of miscarrages myself I am so sorry. I found it very special to have a service to farewell our babies which I found on the net. Sorry I could not hold you, tiny one.

The hormones they give you for the lutunal phase make you tired and tearful if you are like me. Although some say you are not a slave to your hormomes the hormones given are huge doses and have made me suicidal in the past.

My thoughts and prayers are with you Michelle. OXOXOXOX
 
Posted by chukovsky (# 116) on :
 
Thinking of you, Michelle. [Votive]

We have an appointment on August 17th at the recurrent miscarriage clinic.
 
Posted by Cedd (# 8436) on :
 
When my wife and I started trying for children we assumed (very naively) that as Christians that if we prayed about everything then we (and the baby) would be OK. We conceived quickly enough but, despite lots of prayer, the first pregnancy ended in miscarriage at 11 weeks. I think this damaged us both quite a lot and certainly altered our understanding of God and prayer.

The second pregnancy went well (with a few dodgy moments it has to be said) and we now (thank God) have a beautiful three year old.

We tried again and, unfortunately, had another miscarriage - this one much worse (physically) than the first.

We tried again and this one has held on - due in 9 weeks time.

Back in April we went on holiday to Riga, we visited an Orthodox church and I bought 4 candles. My wife asked who they were for and I said "For our four children". We both cried a lot but it was our own memorial for those we had lost and those that we still have.


My prayers for God's blessing on everyone out there.

[Votive] [Votive] [Votive] [Votive]
 
Posted by chukovsky (# 116) on :
 
I just came across this- advice for people who have friends or relatives who have fertility problems.
 
Posted by Pânts (# 999) on :
 
[Votive]
 
Posted by chukovsky (# 116) on :
 
Fairly helpful meeting with recurrent pregnancy loss nurse on Thursday. I have even less blood in my arm now - I expect it to drop off any time now. We'll hear the results in a month - if any of the tests are positive they will advise on further treatment (she's already suggested I go on the higher dose of folic acid if I get pregnant again), and if they aren't, we'll be given the opportunity to participate in a research trial (since we will then officially have the diagnosis of Idiopathic Recurrent Miscarriage. Lovely).
 
Posted by Jane R (# 331) on :
 
[Votive] for Chukovsky.

Jane R
 
Posted by Gill H (# 68) on :
 
Feeling really broody today.

My friend and her 'nearly 7' daughter spent Monday with us, and I'm staying with them this weekend. The daughter is absolutely delightful (and incredibly well behaved!)

We're also celebrating the 1st birthday of our goddaughter today with her family, and on Sunday we saw her beginning to walk.

All lovely moments, but with a bittersweet edge. Particularly as the news this morning is full of 'if you're overweight, 40 and broke, forget IVF'.
 
Posted by Bronwyn (# 52) on :
 
Gill, Nothing I could write will take away the feelings you have,if you want to chat let me know. Thoughts and prayers and virtual hugsOXOXOXOXOX
 
Posted by Vikki Pollard (# 5548) on :
 
[Votive] [Tear]
 
Posted by chukovsky (# 116) on :
 
We got the results of the recurrent miscarriage tests back a couple of weeks ago - there is nothing they can put their fingers on so officially I have Idiopathic Recurrent Miscarriage i.e. unexplained. Frustrating but I suppose it's good not to have e.g. thyroid problems. Not much more to be done though I have a couple of questions and we have been asked to participate in a clinical trial, which will involve another test in a month or so.
 
Posted by Bronwyn (# 52) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by chukovsky:
We got the results of the recurrent miscarriage tests back a couple of weeks ago - there is nothing they can put their fingers on so officially I have Idiopathic Recurrent Miscarriage i.e. unexplained. Frustrating but I suppose it's good not to have e.g. thyroid problems. Not much more to be done though I have a couple of questions and we have been asked to participate in a clinical trial, which will involve another test in a month or so.

chukovsky [Tear] [Votive] it is so hard to not have a reason. I really would try the clinical trial, although stressful it may succeed, I mean it is a chance. Although different Miriam was born after a trial of a new drug...although the situation is different and I remember people saying things like that when I was trying and it didn't always help, so ignore it if it doesn't. Will pray. [Waterworks] [Votive]
 
Posted by Matrix (# 3452) on :
 
Been a while since any movement on this thread. I'll kick things off again with a prayer request then. MiniMatrix is now 2 (amazing how time shoots by) and is healthy and well and completely through all the prematurity issues.

We've been thinking for a while about having another go. We tried one cycle in Autumn that didn't work, prior to our move to london. We had lined up an appt at the clinic at the centre of the Panorama row recently, and have since cancelled that. So we feel a bit at square one, with a bioclocks ticking and a keenness to do what's right, please pray, and let us know (feel free to pm) of experiences of london clinics.

Grace and Peace
M
 
Posted by kentishmaid (# 4767) on :
 
I probably don't really belong in this thread, but we've been trying for nearly 10 months now and we're not getting anywhere fast. Prior to that we'd been on a break because two months of trying had produced very late periods and no positive test (the last time was 26 days late).

I've come to the conclusion that it's probably stress on my part because most areas of my life are stressful currently (job, state of the flat, finances etc) and so I'm trying to relax, but it's proving quite hard.

It's weird, but despite the fact that I've not been the sort of evangelical I was as a teenager for years now, I still find myself slipping into those bad thought habits in relation to this. For example, feeling that it's arrogant of me to assume that we could ever have children, that it's all my fault because we had sex before marriage etc etc. I know all of this is utterly daft, but it doesn't prevent those thoughts going through my head.

I'm hoping that there's a reason for it all, but it doesn't feel much like it at the moment. The only consolation is that if it does end up taking 11 months, the baby would be due at Christmas which would allow me to have him/her in Leeds where my family and friends are, and where I would eventually like to move.
 
Posted by Jane R (# 331) on :
 
[Votive] for Kentishmaid, Chukovsky, and anyone else out there trying for a baby.

Kentishmaid, if you still aren't pregnant this time next year it's probably worth talking to your doctor. We should have done it after the first two years, but kept putting it off... with the result that by the time we'd worked through all the options short of IVF I was 38. Wasted two years thinking 'of course it does take some couples longer'.

Jane R

and another [Votive] for two good friends who have also been trying for a year.
 
Posted by chukovsky (# 116) on :
 
Kentishmaid, if you are over 35 you should be going to the doctor's after 6 months - even if they tell you to go away again you should persist as the investigations take AGES. If you are under 35 then they say a year.

If you haven't done it yet, then invest in (a few boxes of, if your cycles are long and/or irregular) ovulation prediction kits - it will help your case if you can say "and I know what's happening in my cycle" or possibly "and I know nothing's happening in my cycle", if you are unlucky. These are expensive in Boots etc. but not too bad online if you buy the generic kind. Don't bother with fertility meters but if you are feeling keen (and have regular sleeping times) you could try BBT (basal body temperature) charting which will also give you some information.

To avoid hijacking this with lots of TMI, feel free to email me or PM if you need any more info...
 
Posted by kentishmaid (# 4767) on :
 
Cheers all! Luckily I'm 28, so I have got some time on my side (although I'm the sort of greedy guts who wants more than one kid, which doesn't help!).

BBTs aren't very practical as we have two cats who disturb us very vociferously in the morning, so I wouldn't be in sufficiently restful a state to get an accurate reading, unfortunately.

I had ruled out OPTs owing to cost, but may have to revisit that. My husband won't let me buy such things on line as he works for a pharmaceutical company and thinks that they're dodgy.

May just end up using my Persona in reverse and hoping for the best.

The reason I'd left off that, though (and just covering the right sort of time period) was that I thought it would be just one more stress. But maybe I'm going to have to, now.

Thanks all for the support, especially when I know I don't count as the 'should be worried' category yet.
 
Posted by Lamb Chopped (# 5528) on :
 
The first thing they did with me was to require several months of the BBT charts. So if there's anyway you can swing it with the cats, it might be worthwhile, so that if and when you do wind up going in, you've saved yourself a bit of time.

Another thing that might possibly be worth doing would be to have your husband see a urologist / andrologist and do a "just-in-case" sperm analysis, which is the first step for guys. (Your own gynecologist can also order this test for him, in my experience.) I don't think this is hugely expensive, and if there is an issue on his side, this would probably bring it to light right away. In my experience they want repeats on that, too, just in case things change, so again you're saving yourself a bit of time (and impatience) if you handle it now on a "just in case" basis.

All that said, you're right in thinking that it'll probably all turn it just fine. But I was always the type that wanted to grab a potential problem by the throat and shake it to death ASAP. [Biased]
 
Posted by Lamb Chopped (# 5528) on :
 
And on my part... Would you folks spare a prayer for me, as I try to lose weight so that we can try again? I dare not get pregnant at my present weight due to gestational diabetes and other problems with our first. Yet I'm running out of time here, and it really needs to be this year. And it's so hard.
 
Posted by kentishmaid (# 4767) on :
 
Well, if they want charts, we're probably stuffed. Our door won't shut properly and I can't see my husband not letting the cats in. Just going to have to hope we're in that 15% who manage it in around the 10 - 12 month mark.

Good luck with losing weight - I hope you it shifts quickly and that you fall pregnant just as speedily!
 
Posted by Lamb Chopped (# 5528) on :
 
Thanks very much. In my case, though, it's going to require the highest of the high ART. [Razz] (This is as close as I can come to a "bleahhh!" smiley.)

You know, I really don't think having cats jump on you is going to be a problem, as long as you can restrain yourself from getting involved in an energetic response. It's your muscle movement, not theirs, that would be a problem. But maybe I'm not visualizing things correctly here.
 
Posted by chukovsky (# 116) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Lamb Chopped:
The first thing they did with me was to require several months of the BBT charts. So if there's anyway you can swing it with the cats, it might be worthwhile, so that if and when you do wind up going in, you've saved yourself a bit of time.

Another thing that might possibly be worth doing would be to have your husband see a urologist / andrologist and do a "just-in-case" sperm analysis, which is the first step for guys. (Your own gynecologist can also order this test for him, in my experience.) I don't think this is hugely expensive,

Things don't work quite the same this side of the pond. Women don't have "their own gynaecologist" and short of spending £££ going private, men wouldn't be off to see a specialist on their own either - for the majority of us, the GP is the first port of call for everything, and the only port of call for most things - they would order, and review, the first round of tests, unless you are like me and older and they don't want to waste time doing that.

No-one's ever asked me for any BBT charts but if you can manage just one or two months (and you can take it at 4am or 5am if that's your regular waking time - the cats will just have to be patient while you wait for the thermometer for 30 seconds) you can see if the second half of the cycle is doing what it should i.e. have you actually ovulated. I used to have a temperature-taking machine that said you had to have had 4 hours' sleep and have been in bed for the last hour, or something like that - and it seemed to work quite well for me, even though I do tend to wake up at odd hours, I just took it anyway.

OPKs are less than £1 each on line. But Persona does the same thing - have a look at the sticks themselves as if you are getting two thick lines early in the cycle that could indicate too much LH, and you can also then see when/if the LH surge happens each month, is it regular, and how many days you have between that and the end of the cycle. All useful information.

At your age, the most likely scenario is they will start doing tests after 1 year but then will want you to wait till it's been 2 years (and IIRC 50% of those who don't conceive in a year, but have no identifiable cause, will conceive in the second year) until they start doing anything drastic.

You have loads of time for two or even five children. Don't panic! All those helpful people will say "just relax". Not very helpful in getting pregnant, but very helpful in not feeling so bad about not getting pregnant.
 
Posted by chukovsky (# 116) on :
 
P.S. - I'm off to the hospital again on Thursday for an ovarian scan - and they are doing some more tests on both of us... results theoretically back at the start of April, when we have an appointment to see the consultant, but I am going to see if they might manage to give us the bare bones before that.
 
Posted by kentishmaid (# 4767) on :
 
Good luck with the scan! I hope all goes well and that you get everything you're dreaming of.

I may well just go with the Persona, but for now I've decided that a regime of rest, relaxation, good food, exercise and positive thinking will do for the next couple of months. I'm allowing myself one small glass of wine per day, too, as I'm fed up of feeling deprived and will just see what happens.
 
Posted by Matrix (# 3452) on :
 
The waiting lists for urologists can be very long on the NHS, and the people in the queue in front are likely to be older chaps waking up several times a night in pain needing to pee.

I paid and went private, hated doing it, went against some deeply held principles, but was finally swung by my GP saying "Matrix, next wednesday the dr will be at the clinic, he'll either be seeing you or playing golf on the putting green out the back, he won;t be seeing nhs patients, you're not stealing anyone's place"

For the first test for men he could have thgis done immediately by almost any fertility clinic, even without referral. It's worth doing as if that is the problem there are some things that can be fixed, and other things that can't so you might find out immediately that you can't have kids naturally barring a regenerative miracle.

Send him for a test, and wait a while before you see the gp otherwise.

M
 
Posted by kentishmaid (# 4767) on :
 
Hmm. I've been trying to persuade him just to register with the GP for a year and a half, so I'm not sure how far I'll get, but I may well have a go.

However, so far this relaxation business is lovely. Just come out of a rose scented bath and feel very calm. Hopefully this will continue over the next few months!
 
Posted by chukovsky (# 116) on :
 
If he'll go along with you to the gynae/GP (tell him you need your hand held) he may well just get Told Here's A Pot Go And Get On With It And Here's Where You Take It. And, indeed, to register on his way out.

Sorry, sweetest.
 
Posted by Bronwyn (# 52) on :
 
[Votive]
 
Posted by chukovsky (# 116) on :
 
Had a scan last week on my ovaries, all is shiny and well and no cysts (I didn't think there were but one of the many consultants was Just Checking). I was told I should ring the medical secretaries to see if the test results were back... but no answer every time I try. Hmph.
 
Posted by chukovsky (# 116) on :
 
Me again (well, who else?). On the theme of hospital appointments (see the Prayer thread) we finally have our appointment with the consultant on Monday, and the secretary kindly rang me yesterday to tell me the results were back (they said it could take 3 months) so at least we'll have something to talk about. I guess we're hoping this might help us know what to do next, but you never really know, do you?

Hope all is well with the other occasional visitors to this thread. Kentishmaid, did you end up dragging Kentishmaster to the GP?
 
Posted by Halo (# 6933) on :
 
I just wanted to thank all the people who have posted their experiences on here. I don't often post but I have found it really helpful reading about other people who are going through similar experiences to mine (18 months of trying so far).
This thread has been a real encouragement- Thanks!
 
Posted by chukovsky (# 116) on :
 
"Apparently normal"... at least that's what the genetics analysis said about both of us. You may not agree with him... but Mr. Spouse is quite chuffed at this description.

All the other results were, we already knew, fine, so this does give us a better prognosis than if something had come back as an explanation, but doesn't really give us any answers, or a clear path forwards.
 
Posted by Vikki Pollard (# 5548) on :
 
[Votive]
 
Posted by Bronwyn (# 52) on :
 
Hugs, and [Votive]
No words as I do not know what to say.
 
Posted by Chorister (# 473) on :
 
All best wishes for you both. [Votive]
 
Posted by Tina (# 63) on :
 
[Votive] for everyone on this journey.

I'm waiting for an appointment to have my insides looked at again, this time hopefully to get a diagnosis and some treatment on what seems to be endo ...
 
Posted by chukovsky (# 116) on :
 
I'm sorry that I didn't see your post, Tina, but this thread seems to spend a lot of time languishing on page 4 or even 10... hope it goes/went OK.

We have some news. We've just found out I'm pregnant again. I rang the hospital today but they haven't rung back yet, and I'm away for work (not very far away, and I'm taking the car in case I need to come home suddenly) for the next two days, but if last time is anything to go by they will ask us in for a scan in 2 weeks time, assuming I get that far - the last two times I haven't, and it's all been over by about 5 weeks.

Please say some prayers for us, the extra strong kind with the screwed up eyes would be good. I'm very scared.
 
Posted by multipara (# 2918) on :
 
Take as read,

cheers,

m
 
Posted by Ags (# 204) on :
 
Praying [Votive]
 
Posted by Halo (# 6933) on :
 
[Votive]

[ 23. April 2007, 21:54: Message edited by: Halo ]
 
Posted by Auntie Doris (# 9433) on :
 
(((chuk))) [Votive]

Auntie Doris x
 
Posted by Derf (# 2093) on :
 
[Votive]
 
Posted by Tina (# 63) on :
 
[Votive] [Votive] [Votive]
 
Posted by Lothlorien (# 4927) on :
 
Praying too.
 
Posted by busyknitter (# 2501) on :
 
[Votive]

BK
 
Posted by babybear (# 34) on :
 
I think that it is fairly safe to say that everyone of us who reads this thread will be praying for you, the Spouse and this tiny bundle of life.
 
Posted by Gill H (# 68) on :
 
You betcha. Storming heaven on my way to work today.
 
Posted by Malin (# 11769) on :
 
Praying praying praying [Votive]
 
Posted by Matrix (# 3452) on :
 
[Votive] praying too [Votive]
 
Posted by Legodude_uk (# 5671) on :
 
Ditto [Votive]
 
Posted by Jane R (# 331) on :
 
[Votive] [Votive] [Votive] for Chukovsky

Jane R
 
Posted by Ann (# 94) on :
 
[Votive]
 
Posted by Pânts (# 999) on :
 
[Votive] chukovsky and the spouse [Votive]
 
Posted by Ferijen (# 4719) on :
 
Eyes specially screwed up.
 
Posted by Smudgie (# 2716) on :
 
Chuk, I can't screw my eyes up any tighter - they'd pop out of the back of my head and roll over the floor - but you have my deepest strongest prayers and immense quantities of love and support coming long-distance from Smudgie Towers. I can't begin to imagine how scary and what jumbled emotions you must both feel at the moment. [Votive]
 
Posted by JennyAnn (# 3131) on :
 
[Smile] for chuk and Spouse.

[Votive]
 
Posted by welsh dragon (# 3249) on :
 
All the best you two. Or should I say you three [Votive] .
 
Posted by Moth (# 2589) on :
 
Hoping and praying here, too, Chukovsky.

[ 24. April 2007, 21:26: Message edited by: Moth ]
 
Posted by neandergirl (# 8916) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by welsh dragon:
All the best you two. Or should I say you three [Votive] .

Amen [Votive] [Votive] [Votive]
 
Posted by Mr. Spouse (# 3353) on :
 
Chukovsky is away tonight, so I've popped in to say thanks to everyone with their eyes screwed tight! [Overused]

Latest update is that there is a hospital appointment booked for 11am on Friday...
 
Posted by Bronwyn (# 52) on :
 
Prayers from us, PLEASE God
 
Posted by Goar (# 3939) on :
 
Praying for chukovsky [Votive]
 
Posted by Amos (# 44) on :
 
Eyes screwed up here too. Please God... [Votive]
 
Posted by chukovsky (# 116) on :
 
The appointment today went OK, but as I only had blood tests, and no scan, I can't tell you anything more than than that! On other fronts no news is, of course, good news.

I'm still very nervous, and when the registrar suggested coming back in two weeks I asked if I couldn't come back next week - so I have another appointment for next Friday, when they will be doing a scan.
 
Posted by Pânts (# 999) on :
 
Continuing with the [Votive] .

Glad the appointments went okay.
 
Posted by chukovsky (# 116) on :
 
Still here, still very scared - though I managed to get a bit more sleep last night.
 
Posted by Curiosity killed ... (# 11770) on :
 
[Votive] prayers for all three of you [Votive]
 
Posted by rosamundi (# 2495) on :
 
eyes screwed up and hands clenched together (I'm typing this with my nose, obviously).

[Votive]
 
Posted by Bronwyn (# 52) on :
 
(hugs) waiting is the hardest...
 
Posted by Malin (# 11769) on :
 
[Votive] [Votive]
 
Posted by Ags (# 204) on :
 
Praying [Votive]
 
Posted by babybear (# 34) on :
 
Prayers ascending.
 
Posted by Pânts (# 999) on :
 
[Votive]

(Am I the only one who holds their breath when waiting for this page to load?!?!)
 
Posted by Gwai (# 11076) on :
 
Praying.
 
Posted by Emma. (# 3571) on :
 
just caught up with the news chuckovsky - we're both thinking of you [Smile]
 
Posted by Caz... (# 3026) on :
 
Please have mercy, Lord.

[Votive]
 
Posted by Tina (# 63) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Pânts:
[Votive]

(Am I the only one who holds their breath when waiting for this page to load?!?!)

Nope [Biased]

Continuing prayers for chukovsky, Mr Spouse and the little one. Thank you for sharing this exciting but scary bit of your journey. [Votive]

As for me, I had my appointment yesterday, saw the consultant I saw 18 months ago. He's given me a definite diagnosis of endo, fairly severe. I've been told to go ahead with all the other tests, and that if it is the endo causing the fertility issues it will need specialist surgery [Help] . But it is at least a relief to have a diagnosis, and not wonder if it would all be fine if I just lost weight, or ate more pineapples or something [Roll Eyes] .
 
Posted by Auntie Doris (# 9433) on :
 
If only all of our problems were sorted out by eating more pineapple!

(((hugs))) to everyone.

Auntie Doris x
 
Posted by Amos (# 44) on :
 
[Votive] Praying! Eyes squinched shut.
 
Posted by chukovsky (# 116) on :
 
Sorry to hear about your endo, Tina, it is (I gather) nasty to have - I do know that the surgery improves your chances quite a bit, though.

We're still hanging in here, I think I can manage to make it to the scan on Friday so I'm just praying that is good news - it is unlikely to be conclusively negative but it might be inconclusive as it will be quite early still (6w - for those like, erm, the nameless shipmate who rang me the other night, who don't understand pregnancy dating, this does NOT mean I've known I'm pregnant for 6 weeks nor does it mean 6 weeks since conception...).

ETA Page 5 - and not all the posts by me!

[ 02. May 2007, 09:43: Message edited by: chukovsky ]
 
Posted by neandergirl (# 8916) on :
 
[Votive]
 
Posted by Bronwyn (# 52) on :
 
[Votive] [Votive] [Votive]
 
Posted by Goar (# 3939) on :
 
[Votive] [Votive] [Votive]
 
Posted by welsh dragon (# 3249) on :
 
Good luck with the scan [Votive] .
 
Posted by chukovsky (# 116) on :
 
Thank you all so much for your prayers - the scan was, erm, fine. More than fine. We saw a heartbeat! I'm in a bit of a state of shock to be honest, not helped by very little sleep last night, but this is very good news.

Okay, I'm a bit [Yipee] . I admit it.

Not out of the woods yet - I think a heartbeat at 6 weeks means about an 80% chance - so this increases our chances but we would still appreciate more prayers. We're back for another scan in 2 weeks.
 
Posted by Suze (# 5639) on :
 
[Votive] Many prayers for you and yours while you wait Chuk and much joy at the small, wee heartbeat.
 
Posted by Tina (# 63) on :
 
[Yipee] Still praying.
 
Posted by Pânts (# 999) on :
 
[Big Grin]

[Votive]
 
Posted by The Man With No Name (# 10858) on :
 
Thinking of you Chukovsky [Votive]
 
Posted by busyknitter (# 2501) on :
 
Wow! A heartbeat [Yipee]

Still keeping eyes tightly screwed up (and so is every soft toy in the house)

[Votive] [Votive]

BK
 
Posted by babybear (# 34) on :
 
What lovely, lovely news! [Big Grin]
 
Posted by Lothlorien (# 4927) on :
 
Will keep praying.
 
Posted by Goar (# 3939) on :
 
Well, that kicks ass, Chukovsky. Here is a prayer that we have used at home during Suusan's pregnancies, that I thought I would share:

O Lord God Almighty, Creator of all things and the Giver of all knowledge, Thou has fashioned our bodies from the earth, and breathed into our nostrils the breath of life and granted unto mankind thy blessing that we might increase and multiply through the birth giving of women to children.

We beseech Thee now O Thou who lovest mankind to bless thy Handmaid, CHUKOVSKY, who is with child, granting her strength and health and a sure sense of thy presence, and bring her to a safe delivery. Yea, O Lord, open Thou the treasury of thy mercies and thy compassions unto her, and let her give birth to a fruitful vine, that s/he may be a cause of joy unto the length of her days.

Keep safe from harm the child she bears that in due time s/he may see both the light of day and the light of thy kingdom.

Give thy grace unto thy servant, MR SPOUSE, O Lord that he may be a strong, loving and wise support, showing the same love for his wife that thy Son showed for his bride, the Church.

For Thou art blessed, together with thine only begotten Son, and thine all-Holy, good and life-giving Spirit: now and ever and unto ages of ages. Amen.
 
Posted by neandergirl (# 8916) on :
 
Amen! to that! [Votive]
 
Posted by Gwai (# 11076) on :
 
[Yipee] [Votive]
 
Posted by Amos (# 44) on :
 
[Votive] [Smile] Praying, and giving thanks for a heartbeat!
 
Posted by Malin (# 11769) on :
 
[Votive] Happy and praying
 
Posted by Bronwyn (# 52) on :
 
A heartbeat!!!!!! yEAH Yes...my gyno said if you have a heartbeat it a vital time and my understanding is you have MORE than an 80 % chance!!!!!!!!
Will continue to shut my eyes tight!!!!!!!!

Rest heaps and take it easy.
 
Posted by Tree Bee (# 4033) on :
 
chukovsky [Votive] [Yipee]
 
Posted by PeteCanada (# 10422) on :
 
May God hold you and your new little one in His hands Chukovsky. [Votive]
 
Posted by Ags (# 204) on :
 
[Smile] [Votive]
 
Posted by chukovsky (# 116) on :
 
Thank you all for your continued prayers - I'm still quite nervous to be honest though less so than I was before the scan - unfortunately once you have had as many miscarriages as me, and when the heartbeat is seen quite early, the realistic chance is more or less exactly 80%. But I keep telling myself that is a good chance.
 
Posted by Jack the Lass (# 3415) on :
 
Praying from a long way away for you, chukovsky (and Spouse) and Tina (and Spike) [Smile]
 
Posted by rosamundi (# 2495) on :
 
still praying hard.
 
Posted by chukovsky (# 116) on :
 
Thank you all - I had a slightly stressful day yesterday but I think I have managed to work out how to tell Personnel about my ante-natal appointments without having to tell my big-mouthed head of dept. Other than that no news is probably good news... I keep saying that, don't I?
 
Posted by Malin (# 11769) on :
 
[Votive] Still reading and praying for you
 
Posted by Flausa (# 3466) on :
 
[Votive] daily prayers ascending from the Cresswell Clan.
 
Posted by Bronwyn (# 52) on :
 
Please God [Votive] [Votive]
 
Posted by Jane R (# 331) on :
 
Burning a whole toenail of the Fifth Elephant here for Chukovsky [Votive]

Jane R
 
Posted by Amos (# 44) on :
 
[Votive] chuk & the chukling.
 
Posted by Chorister (# 473) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Amos:
[Votive] chuk & the chukling.

I'm not sure whether this sounds like a new band or the nausea experienced by the mum-to-be, but Amos's names alerted me to your good news. Many best wishes [Votive]
 
Posted by Bronwyn (# 52) on :
 
please God
 
Posted by chukovsky (# 116) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Chorister:
quote:
Originally posted by Amos:
[Votive] chuk & the chukling.

I'm not sure whether this sounds like a new band or the nausea experienced by the mum-to-be
The way I've been feeling the last couple of days, the latter. Haven't thrown up yet... but I think I need to eat something now...
 
Posted by Pânts (# 999) on :
 
[Votive]
 
Posted by Moth (# 2589) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by chukovsky:
quote:
Originally posted by Chorister:
quote:
Originally posted by Amos:
[Votive] chuk & the chukling.

I'm not sure whether this sounds like a new band or the nausea experienced by the mum-to-be
The way I've been feeling the last couple of days, the latter. Haven't thrown up yet... but I think I need to eat something now...
Well, that's a good sign. Frankly, I hope your pregnancy hormones are running so high that you are sick! (In the nicest possible way, of course!)
 
Posted by babybear (# 34) on :
 
I was thinking similar thoughts. It is two weeks since we first learned the news, and now you are feeling sick... Daft, but it makes me smile. [Big Grin]

Continuing prayers

bb
 
Posted by Dee. (# 5681) on :
 
[Votive] for chuckovsky, the wee one and mr spouse.

Please God [Votive]
 
Posted by Amos (# 44) on :
 
[Votive]
 
Posted by Matrix (# 3452) on :
 
Mrs M & I are trying again. We're keen for MiniMatrix (who just keeps getting more amazing every day) to have a sibling.

Mrs M has been injecting for the last few weeks. This week is the week for the ops.

Our protocl varies from the norm again as we don't want to create "spares" and we keep getting reminded how this affects our chances. We only have to look at MiniM to know that it's only partly in the hands of doctors, but it does play in the mind.

Either friday or the following monday will be transfer day. Please pray.

[ 13. May 2007, 13:49: Message edited by: Matrix ]
 
Posted by Gwai (# 11076) on :
 
Definitely praying, for the matrixes, for chukovsky, and for the others I don't know about.
[Votive]
 
Posted by neandergirl (# 8916) on :
 
[Votive]
 
Posted by Bronwyn (# 52) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Matrix:
Mrs M & I are trying again. We're keen for MiniMatrix (who just keeps getting more amazing every day) to have a sibling.

Mrs M has been injecting for the last few weeks. This week is the week for the ops.

Our protocl varies from the norm again as we don't want to create "spares" and we keep getting reminded how this affects our chances. We only have to look at MiniM to know that it's only partly in the hands of doctors, but it does play in the mind.

Either friday or the following monday will be transfer day. Please pray.

[Votive]
 
Posted by chukovsky (# 116) on :
 
Thinking of the matrices, too. [Votive]

I'm still feeling much the same, trying to relax and not get too anxious. But that is very difficult!
 
Posted by Matrix (# 3452) on :
 
Scan today has given us this update. Ops will be friday, E.T. on Monday

M
 
Posted by Bronwyn (# 52) on :
 
I check this thread daily....

Prayers for Matrixes...the emotional strain is so much...
 
Posted by Jerry Boam (# 4551) on :
 
Praying for all. [Votive]
 
Posted by Amos (# 44) on :
 
Prayers ascending [Votive]
 
Posted by Goar (# 3939) on :
 
[Votive]
 
Posted by babybear (# 34) on :
 
Prayers and best wishes for tomorrow.
 
Posted by chukovsky (# 116) on :
 
thanks all - I could do with some sleep tonight, last time I hardly slept... I'm sure it's similar for the Matrices.
 
Posted by Yangtze (# 4965) on :
 
Just got text from Chukovsky - she said all went well at the scan, they heard the heartbeat this time and the embryo looks fine.
 
Posted by rosamundi (# 2495) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Yangtze:
Just got text from Chukovsky - she said all went well at the scan, they heard the heartbeat this time and the embryo looks fine.

Yay!

[Big Grin] [Yipee] [Big Grin]

Continued prayers.
 
Posted by neandergirl (# 8916) on :
 
Yipee!
 
Posted by babybear (# 34) on :
 
That is excellent news, chukovsky. [Big Grin]

quote:
Originally posted by Matrix:
Scan today has given us this update. Ops will be Friday, E.T. on Monday

I don't have a clue what that means, but Friday is mentioned, and this is Friday. I hope that whatever is happening is going well.

Also thinking and praying for the others who have posted on this thread in the past.

bb
 
Posted by Emma. (# 3571) on :
 
Ditto - re both chuckovsky [Yipee] [Yipee] and re the Matricies [Votive]
 
Posted by Ags (# 204) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Yangtze:
Just got text from Chukovsky - she said all went well at the scan, they heard the heartbeat this time and the embryo looks fine.

[Smile] [Votive]
 
Posted by chukovsky (# 116) on :
 
[Big Grin] [Big Grin]

I'm very tired, having slept reasonably but not well last night. But we had a good scan - hearing the heartbeat made it seem very real - and a good appointment, with the Lovely Doctor, who was grinning as much as we were. Our chances, as I understand it, are now about 90%.

Back in two weeks' time, when my mother will be holding my hand [Paranoid] as it's quite hard for Mr. Spouse to get that much time off work. I at least have a statutory right!

Anyone got any news from the Matrices?
 
Posted by Lamb Chopped (# 5528) on :
 
e.T. is embryo transfer. VERY important.
 
Posted by Auntie Doris (# 9433) on :
 
Oh chuk... that's fabulous news [Smile]

Auntie Doris x
 
Posted by sparklylady (# 4391) on :
 
Chukovsky, wonderful news! Reading this thread regularly and thinking of you often [Votive]
 
Posted by Bronwyn (# 52) on :
 
Prayers always...great news, wondering how the M are...very stressful...C...I cant wait to see you in the shipmates expecting
 
Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :
 
[Axe murder] Chuck.
 
Posted by welsh dragon (# 3249) on :
 
many congrats chuk.
 
Posted by Malin (# 11769) on :
 
[Votive] Great news and continuing to pray
 
Posted by chukovsky (# 116) on :
 
Hoping to hear from the Matrices about their procedures on Friday and today...
 
Posted by Matrix (# 3452) on :
 
Thanks for the prayers,

All ops have gone really well, and two little emby's were put back today.

Wonderful news chukovsky [Votive] [Yipee] [Votive]
 
Posted by chukovsky (# 116) on :
 
Same with you - so presumably you are also awaiting further news on about the 1st June (when our next scan is)?
 
Posted by Matrix (# 3452) on :
 
Just after then, 16 days from now, 6th June.

M
 
Posted by Bronwyn (# 52) on :
 
Waiting.....glad to hear ET and collection was sucessful.
 
Posted by Suze (# 5639) on :
 
Great to hear your brilliant news Chuk, many congratulations and prayers for a safe pregnancy and a health babe. Prayers too for the Matrices.
 
Posted by chukovsky (# 116) on :
 
Having a bit of a panic here, it is fairly likely things are OK but just something a little unexpected. It's a bank holiday here today and I rang the hospital and was told not to do any hoovering(!), but the early pregnancy unit was closed so I think I might ring tomorrow and see if they think it's worth doing an earlier scan. I'm due to go on Friday anyway but it might stop me panicking... [Help]
 
Posted by Jenn R (# 5239) on :
 
Praying Chuk [Votive]
 
Posted by welsh dragon (# 3249) on :
 
[Votive]
 
Posted by Amos (# 44) on :
 
Eyes squinched shut again. [Votive]
 
Posted by Pânts (# 999) on :
 
[Votive] [Votive]
 
Posted by Ags (# 204) on :
 
[Votive]
 
Posted by chukovsky (# 116) on :
 
Things are no worse here - I rang the hospital again this morning and got through to the specialist unit - they said that from what I said, it is pretty unlikely I am miscarrying at the moment. I was offered the option to go in and have a checkup but no scan (because the one booked on Friday is so soon). As it is a long way and I am pretty tired and need to rest, and I am fairly confident that they wouldn't be able to tell me anything I don't already know, I have decided just to stay at home today. I was actually already wondering if I could really face the trip, and if I was brave enough to have a scan on my own (as Mr. Spouse really needed to go to work today), so I was kind of glad to have the decision made for me.

Thank you so much for all your prayers - I know people will carry on praying.
 
Posted by babybear (# 34) on :
 
Many prayers
 
Posted by Moth (# 2589) on :
 
FWIW, the fact that you are feeling tired and unwell is a good sign. When I miscarried, it occured to me afterwards that the first signs had been that I actually felt quite well and full of energy, which I never did in early pregnancy.

We're praying for you; you just rest and hope for the best.
 
Posted by Matrix (# 3452) on :
 
[Votive] Chuk & MiniChuk & Mr Spouse [Votive]
 
Posted by Jane R (# 331) on :
 
[Votive] for Chukovsky.

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE GOD...

Jane R

[ 29. May 2007, 10:19: Message edited by: Jane R ]
 
Posted by chukovsky (# 116) on :
 
Having some bleeding, going to A&E.
 
Posted by Lamb Chopped (# 5528) on :
 
[Votive] [Votive] [Votive]
 
Posted by Jenn R (# 5239) on :
 
Prayers [Votive]
 
Posted by Lookin (# 10855) on :
 
[Votive]
 
Posted by Legodude_uk (# 5671) on :
 
[Votive] from all the Dudes.
 
Posted by Matrix (# 3452) on :
 
[Votive]
 
Posted by Pânts (# 999) on :
 
[Votive] so much.
 
Posted by Gwai (# 11076) on :
 
[Votive] !!
 
Posted by Tina (# 63) on :
 
[Votive]
 
Posted by Curiosity killed ... (# 11770) on :
 
[Votive]
 
Posted by Suze (# 5639) on :
 
[Votive] please God...
 
Posted by Amos (# 44) on :
 
[Votive]
 
Posted by Matrix (# 3452) on :
 
has anyone heard from chuk?

M

[Votive]
 
Posted by Bronwyn (# 52) on :
 
[Votive] [Votive]
 
Posted by neandergirl (# 8916) on :
 
echoing the [Votive]
 
Posted by Catrine (# 9811) on :
 
[Votive]
 
Posted by Jack the Lass (# 3415) on :
 
More [Votive] from here too.

[Votive] [Votive]
 
Posted by Matrix (# 3452) on :
 
still [Votive]
 
Posted by Yangtze (# 4965) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Matrix:
has anyone heard from chuk?

I just did. Don't know any details but I'm sure prayers would still be very very much appreciated.
 
Posted by Jenn R (# 5239) on :
 
Prayers
 
Posted by Mr. Spouse (# 3353) on :
 
Apologies for not updating the situation since yesterday but we wanted to be sure before saying anything.

A basic scan at our local A&E yesterday was unable to trace a heartbeat. This afternoon we went to Liverpool Women's Hospital who did a more detailed scan and confirmed the worst. It looks like there had been no growth for about a week. Chukovsky was admitted and operated on later in the afternoon. She is ok but groggy (so much she couldn't even get to the shop for chocolate) and we're both wondering why. [Waterworks]

She'll be staying overnight and coming home tomorrow.

Thanks everyone for your prayers. Please don't stop as we work through this.
 
Posted by Jenn R (# 5239) on :
 
Continued prayers for you both [Votive] [Votive] [Frown]
 
Posted by Lamb Chopped (# 5528) on :
 
I'm so sorry.
 
Posted by welsh dragon (# 3249) on :
 
Me too [Tear] . (I have access to a supply of hand made chocolates some of which will head your way next week, I know it's a poor consolation but still).

Was thinking of your family at our little communion service this morning.
 
Posted by Suze (# 5639) on :
 
I'm really very sorry. Prayers ascending.
 
Posted by Lothlorien (# 4927) on :
 
[Votive] [Votive] indeed for you.
 
Posted by mountainsnowtiger (# 11152) on :
 
[Frown] so sorry
 
Posted by Moth (# 2589) on :
 
I am so sorry. I really did hope that this would be the time it all went well. Of course we'll keep praying for you both.
 
Posted by babybear (# 34) on :
 
I am so deeply sorry.
 
Posted by Pânts (# 999) on :
 
Oh no. So sorry. [Frown]
 
Posted by Gwai (# 11076) on :
 
What can I say that will mean anything? I'm so sorry. I can't imagine. I'll be praying.
 
Posted by rosamundi (# 2495) on :
 
So sorry [Frown] [Votive]
 
Posted by Ann (# 94) on :
 
[Votive] I am so sorry - it doesn't help to say I think I know how you feel; I just remember how I felt.
 
Posted by Tina (# 63) on :
 
So sorry [Frown] . Praying for you both.
 
Posted by Amos (# 44) on :
 
I am very, very sorry. Praying [Votive] [Votive] [Tear]
 
Posted by Matrix (# 3452) on :
 
[Votive]
Grace and peace
M
 
Posted by Leetle Masha (# 8209) on :
 
[Votive] Prayers continuing....

Mary
 
Posted by Yangtze (# 4965) on :
 
Oh I cant believe it. So very very sorry.

Much love and hugs and prayers.
 
Posted by Bronwyn (# 52) on :
 
So sorry, [Tear] [Votive] [Waterworks]

Will remember you in my prayers.
 
Posted by mirrizin (# 11014) on :
 
I am saddened to hear this. Prayers offered. [Votive]
 
Posted by Lookin (# 10855) on :
 
[Votive]
 
Posted by ebeth (# 4474) on :
 
[Votive]
 
Posted by neandergirl (# 8916) on :
 
[Votive]
 
Posted by Jimmy B (# 220) on :
 
[Votive] Prayers for facing this loss and for courage and wellness for the future.
 
Posted by CuppaT (# 10523) on :
 
I am so very sorry, too. We all love you both, you know.

These are the names of my little ones who are in heaven already, most of them named after angels, and one named after a saint on whose feast day it was: Gabriel, Michael, Raphael, Angelina, and Paraskeva. It really helps through the years to remember them by name.

CuppaT
 
Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :
 
Words are inadequate. [Frown] [Votive]
 
Posted by Adrienne (# 2334) on :
 
[Votive]
 
Posted by JennyAnn (# 3131) on :
 
To echo kelly, words are inadequate.

[Votive]

Jenny and Stu.
 
Posted by Flausa (# 3466) on :
 
[Votive]
 
Posted by Curiosity killed ... (# 11770) on :
 
[Votive]
 
Posted by Emma. (# 3571) on :
 
Oh gosh [Frown] [Tear]
 
Posted by Jane R (# 331) on :
 
[Votive] [Waterworks]

There are no words.

Jane R
 
Posted by Jack the Lass (# 3415) on :
 
[Waterworks]

I'm so sorry. Prayers for you both [Frown]
 
Posted by Malin (# 11769) on :
 
Oh no. So, so sorry. Praying [Votive]
 
Posted by Caz... (# 3026) on :
 
What gutting, terrible news. I am so very sorry.

[Votive] and more than a little raging at God from over here.
 
Posted by Worm in the Grass (# 10999) on :
 
No words but many prayers [Votive] [Waterworks]
 
Posted by Chorister (# 473) on :
 
[Votive] for you both.
 
Posted by Legodude_uk (# 5671) on :
 
[Votive] thinking of you at this time.
 
Posted by DaisyM (# 9098) on :
 
With others who have posted I have no words, but am praying for you both. I am so very sorry.

[Votive]
 
Posted by Auntie Doris (# 9433) on :
 
Only just caught up with this.

No words... just [Waterworks] [Votive]

Auntie Doris x
 
Posted by icklejen (# 713) on :
 
[Waterworks] [Votive]

praying for you both

if there's anything practical we can do, don't hesitate to ask

ij and dl xx
 
Posted by SnowQueen (# 12600) on :
 
[Votive]

I hope everything comes right for you at the end of all this.
 
Posted by busyknitter (# 2501) on :
 
So very sorry [Votive]
 
Posted by Janine (# 3337) on :
 
"...and God looked down... and God's great heart was touched with pity, with everlasting pity..."

When it happened to me it helped me a little to remember that God has lost a child, too.
 
Posted by Ags (# 204) on :
 
So very sorry. Prayers offered [Votive]
 
Posted by bush baptist (# 12306) on :
 
[Votive]
 
Posted by The Man With No Name (# 10858) on :
 
So very sorry
[Votive]
 
Posted by Joan Rasch (# 49) on :
 
[Votive]
 
Posted by chukovsky (# 116) on :
 
After a few sleepy & groggy days at home we had a slightly more exciting one than we would have liked, with me going into the local hospital again overnight. They threatened another operation but fortunately it wasn't necessary, I actually slept quite well (in my local hospital you are slightly more likely to get your own room, it seems - I even managed to miss breakfast!) and am back at home feeling fed up and tired but physically a bit better.

I'm seeing the GP tomorrow partly to get a sick note for work, so need to give him some estimate of how much time I think I'll need off. At this rate, "all year" looks good.
 
Posted by Yangtze (# 4965) on :
 
Oh gosh.

[Votive]
 
Posted by Gill H (# 68) on :
 
Just caught up with this.

I rarely swear, but right now the air in my head is turning blue.

So sorry.

[Votive]
 
Posted by Pânts (# 999) on :
 
That so sucks.

I'm sorry.


[Frown]
 
Posted by dolphy (# 862) on :
 
[Votive]
 
Posted by Goar (# 3939) on :
 
[Votive] [Votive] [Votive]
I am so sorry. It's just so heartwrenching. I hate it. I'm angry.

Please take care. We're praying for you.
 
Posted by chukovsky (# 116) on :
 
Have been signed off till 25th June, after which there is only one week of term. I'm feeling physically a lot more normal now, though very tired but that could partly be the drugs.

Was just wondering if anyone had heard from the Matrices?
 
Posted by Bronwyn (# 52) on :
 
So sorry do not know what to say. I have you in my thoughts and prayers. Rest heaps and allow yourself to recover, emotionally, and physically.
 
Posted by Matrix (# 3452) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by chukovsky:
Have been signed off till 25th June, after which there is only one week of term. I'm feeling physically a lot more normal now, though very tired but that could partly be the drugs.

Was just wondering if anyone had heard from the Matrices?

It seems really hard to post this. Things are looking positive for us right now, scan is due in a fortnight.

Chuk, grace and peace be yours this night, in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.
 
Posted by babybear (# 34) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Matrix:
It seems really hard to post this. Things are looking positive for us right now, scan is due in a fortnight.

That is lovely news. I hope that all goes well with the scan.

It can be incredibly hard announcing news of pregnancy when you know that friends and family are suffering. You know that people will be happy for you, but that the news will add to their sorrow, 'Why them, and not me?!'

In my family there were 4 couples trying to have babies, my brother, 2 cousins and me. I was the only one who needed no help in conceiving. One cousin had no problems with her first child, but then needed a great deal of help with the second pregnancy (twins). Between these 3 couples the accumulated totals for trying for babies is about 20 years!

It was only the first and last pregnancies that didn't have any guilt attached to them. I was married first and had a baby before a few months before the others got married. Everyone was delighted with this first baby. For each pregnancy apart from the last there were people in the family who had been trying for for years. With the last pregnancy (another set of twins) we were all so utterly delighted.

Looking back, we have been incredibly fortunate that all the couples who wanted babies managed to have them.
 
Posted by Bronwyn (# 52) on :
 
That is good news so far, Matrix. Will be thinking of you in the comming weeks. It is such a stressful time and prayers assending.

I remember a friend of mine had a molar pregnancy which is basically a non viable pregnancy at 20 weeks, I flew down to be with her in Melbourne, She was so upset, I took her to hospital for the operation as her hubby was overseas. I didnt want to admit why I was returning to Mildura It was to have an embryo transfer, but eventually it came out and she was wanting it to work. It didnt though. Is a hard road to walk and either good news or bad news can be difficult to break.

Thinking of you Chuk and Mr Spouse.
 
Posted by Vikki Pollard (# 5548) on :
 
[Votive]
 
Posted by Goar (# 3939) on :
 
[Votive]
 
Posted by neandergirl (# 8916) on :
 
[Votive]
 
Posted by Bronwyn (# 52) on :
 
I am going to post here as I feel it is a fertility problem but on the other hand I have a baby so to a lot of people here I am so lucky. Please know I do know this in having one baby. The issue is this:
I struggled a lot to establish breastfeeding. Now I really do love it, and would love to continue it as long as she wants(not necessary as much as now maybe just at night) the problem is this, when I have the IVF treatment for Miriam, after a dr review the treatment was a lot more sucessful once the dr had reviewed the drugs. Ialways only thought I would be lucky to have one. Now there is thepossability that this one embryo I have could become a sister or brother for Miriam. It is slim and becoming slimmer as I get older, although I am not as old as some of the IVF people my bodys fertility looks older according to the drs.
The IVF drugs I will take are not compatable with breastfeeding as I understand it. so if I give up the breastfeeding and put this embryo in I feel I will regret it, I also feel I will regret it if I leave it too late and then not have another one.
We will not try after this one even if it fails, the IVF process was too much for us as a couple and with Miriam would be much too much.
 
Posted by Cod (# 2643) on :
 
Like Bronwyn I (deep breath) wish to share something that is also a fertility problem, although perhaps better described as something arising from fertility problems.

Mrs Cod an I are amongst the fortunate ones here. We have one daughter concieved using IVF, and Mrs Cod has just discovered that she is pregnant again. Our treatment was part funded by the State, so even though it has been expensive, it has not crippled us financially.

The problem is that Mrs. Cod misunderstood the IVF process and thought that the egg would be fertilised in her, rather than in a laboratory. My mistake was not realising that she had not understood. We both discovered our respective mistakes after the fertilisation by which time it was too late. Mrs. Cod was very distressed at the thought of twenty frozen embryos, and she now feels locked into a process which she regards as unethical. We have one frozen embryo left. I do not believe IVF to be ethically dubious.

It doesn't help that Mrs Cod's church is evangelical Anglican and while others within the congregation have discreetly undergone IVF, it is generally frowned upon by the average pew-sitter. This means that she especially (and myself) have witnessed comments which I ignore but which have caused her extreme angst. She is under the impression that the only churches that are OK about IVF are falling-over-the-edge liberal.

This is not the thread to discuss whether IVF is good or bad from a Christian POV but I would be very grateful for prayers from others as I support my wife as best I can, and I also will pray for anyone who posts on or follows this thread who is in the same situation.
 
Posted by Suze (# 5639) on :
 
[Votive] prayers for your wife Cod, I know how it is to have a church that openly speaks against such a sensitive issue that sits so close to the heart.

I don't often post on this thread but I read it regularly and remember everyone in prayer often.
 
Posted by Bronwyn (# 52) on :
 
Hugs Cod and Mrs Cod. So hard.

[Votive] [Votive]
 
Posted by chukovsky (# 116) on :
 
Gosh, that is hard. I can't believe the clinic got as far as they did without working out she didn't understand the process, though.

One possibility which I have heard of is embryo donation, although as you only have one more embryo frozen perhaps you would be able to try for another pregnancy after this one, since I believe you have a few years to do that.

Most churches in the UK as far as I know are OK with IVF (certainly several church people have asked us if it would improve our chances - it wouldn't). I know there are more church people who would be against selective reduction, but that's also pretty much ruled out by the standard process here.
 
Posted by Pânts (# 999) on :
 
Cod and Mrs Cod [Votive]

Others on this thread too [Votive]
 
Posted by Goar (# 3939) on :
 
[Votive] The Cods
[Votive] Bronwyn
 
Posted by Matrix (# 3452) on :
 
[Votive] Bronwyn, the Cods, Chuk [Votive]
 
Posted by chukovsky (# 116) on :
 
I'm just coming to the end of my sick leave, and am due back at work on Monday. I've negotiated a reduced load with my line manager for the first week, and then we're off on holiday the following week, but next week starts with a three- to four-hour meeting on Monday morning [Help] .

I have told him I might not make it through the whole meeting - but I do know it's one of the most important meetings of the year.
 
Posted by Jane R (# 331) on :
 
[Votive] for Chukovsky and the Cods.

Jane R
 
Posted by neandergirl (# 8916) on :
 
[Votive]
 
Posted by Matrix (# 3452) on :
 
:votive:chukovsky [Votive]

Our scan was today, one tiny heartbeat pumping away...

Grace and peace to all
M
 
Posted by Bronwyn (# 52) on :
 
Matrix, so exciting.
 
Posted by Cod (# 2643) on :
 
Thanks everyone for the prayers. I am pleased to say that I had a discreet chat with a Catholic friend of mine who believes that my wife has done nothing wrong, and notwithstanding what the Vatican says on the matter, knows a priest who would be able to talk helpfully to Mrs. Cod.

I am quitting SoF now, but I would like to let you know once again that your prayers are very much appreciated.
 
Posted by Dee. (# 5681) on :
 
[Votive]
For you all
 
Posted by chukovsky (# 116) on :
 
We had our consultant's appointment today and results of the genetic testing on the foetus were back. Although it is possible that the tests were wrong (complicated but if you're really interested PM me) it is likely that it was a genetically normal female.

Although of course if something like this happens you always want answers, in a way this feels like quite a good answer to us (and apparently common - in 2/3 of miscarriages where they can test, there is no genetic cause).

[ 06. August 2007, 16:43: Message edited by: chukovsky ]
 
Posted by Yangtze (# 4965) on :
 
Not quite sure what the right words are here but glad today went well and that you think it's a good answer. Prayers for both of you as always.
 
Posted by Pânts (# 999) on :
 
What Yangtze said. [Votive]
 
Posted by Bronwyn (# 52) on :
 
Just feeling for couples who struggle with infertility. It is so so hard.
 


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