Thread: Confess Your Unpopular Opinion Board: Heaven / Ship of Fools.


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Posted by LutheranChik (# 9826) on :
 
Dare to deviate from the norm when it comes to, say, " Game of Thrones," bologna sandwiches or current fashions? Here ( shamelessly stolen from a Facebook friend) is your opportunity to say what you really feel about...whatever. No judging.

I will begin. Confession: Not a fan of tattoos, even good ones. There -- I said it and I'm glad.
 
Posted by Boogie (# 13538) on :
 
I don’t like strawberries [Eek!]
 
Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 
This will get me called to Hell. I'm a supporter of foxhunting.
 
Posted by balaam (# 4543) on :
 
I am a fan of tattoos, my sensitive skin is not, so sadly no ink [Frown]

The same with peaches, even walking past them ripening in a bowl has me feeling unwell. Eating them hidden in other food has me being unwell. Similar fruit, Nectarines Apricots etc have a lesser effect.

I have never watched an episode of Game of Thrones, and have no desire to do so. The same applies to Harry Potter books and films. I do not feel in any way deprived by this.
 
Posted by balaam (# 4543) on :
 
Cats make better pets than dogs.
 
Posted by Stetson (# 9597) on :
 
As someone who learned very little in middle school(almost nothing in math, only a bit in science, and what I got from social studies and language arts I likely would have picked up outside the classroom anyway), I question the need for compulsory education above the elementary level.

I think students who don't want to make the effort shouldn't be compelled or even encouraged to do so, and would be better off leaving school and entering the workforce or job training. By all means, they should have the option of returning to school later on when they might have more of an inclination to do so. (I actually have a friend who went this route, and ended up a university professor.)

So yes, I am favour of child-labour, and think that the value of teachers to society is somewhat over-rated.
 
Posted by balaam (# 4543) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
This will get me called to Hell. I'm a supporter of foxhunting.

The problem with foxhunting is that it is too inefficient to eradicate the vermin.
 
Posted by Stetson (# 9597) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by balaam:

I have never watched an episode of Game of Thrones, and have no desire to do so. The same applies to Harry Potter books and films. I do not feel in any way deprived by this.

I've only watched the first Harry Potter film(directed by schlockmeister Chris Columbus), and thought it was awash in Hollywood anglophile stereotypes about the British public-school system. I was actually kind of surprised more British people weren't offended by it. But what do I know, I guess.
 
Posted by Stetson (# 9597) on :
 
I think car alarms should be illegal. Very few car break-ins constitute a threat to anyone's physical safety, and thus the benefit provided by car alarms do not justify the annoyance caused by false alarms(or even those provoked by genuine break-ins).
 
Posted by Stetson (# 9597) on :
 
I preferred Furley to the Ropers, and my favorite blonde roommate was Terri.
 
Posted by Sipech (# 16870) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
I don’t like strawberries [Eek!]

I agree with you there.

Also: Bruce Springsteen is overrated.
 
Posted by Schroedinger's cat (# 64) on :
 
The Beatles were radical in their time, but in terms of music, they are quite average. There is no need to listen to them today, there are far better groups.
 
Posted by St. Gwladys (# 14504) on :
 
I don't like football.compared to Rugby Union, it's boring.
 
Posted by Lyda*Rose (# 4544) on :
 
Christians who equate being a good conservative with being a good Christian drive me bonkers.
 
Posted by no prophet's flag is set so... (# 15560) on :
 
I think Dr Who is annoying, that gin is overrated, winter is better than summer, and that God should only be thanked in moderation.
 
Posted by Huia (# 3473) on :
 
I hate rugby. Passionately.

Huia
 
Posted by Sipech (# 16870) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Lyda*Rose:
Christians who equate being a good conservative with being a good Christian drive me bonkers.

I thought that would be a fairly popular opinion on the Ship. What might be less popular would be confessing that you quite like listening to Joel Osteen.

N.b. I don't.
 
Posted by Rossweisse (# 2349) on :
 
I don't care for tattoos, either, and I watched two episodes of "Game of Thrones" and decided it wasn't something on which I needed to spend any more time.

Cats are better pets than dogs, at least for non-outdoorsy types and introverts.

I love good wine; thus, I cannot understand why Cabernet and Chardonnay are the inevitable default offerings, at least in the United States. Most of them are plonk.

And why does just about everything cooked have to have black pepper? Can't people who eat it just add it on their own?
 
Posted by Tree Bee (# 4033) on :
 
Sweet sherry is delicious and Bob Dylan can't sing.
 
Posted by LutheranChik (# 9826) on :
 
Fakey-fakey, completely artificial boxed whipped topping mix -- the stuff housewives loved in the Sixties -- is better than actual whipped cream.
 
Posted by Rossweisse (# 2349) on :
 
Dry sherry is better, Tree Bee, but you're correct about Bob Dylan, who couldn't carry a tune in a bucket, not even to save his immortal soul. How can anyone figure out his tunes just from listening to him, ah, vocalize?
 
Posted by mousethief (# 953) on :
 
The Doors are grossly overrated, and not in the least psychedelic.
 
Posted by Golden Key (# 1468) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
I don’t like strawberries [Eek!]

I hate the texture of raw ones, on their own. But I love the flavor. Especially in smoothies. Yum!
 
Posted by anoesis (# 14189) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Tree Bee:
...Bob Dylan can't sing.

He's a hell of a lyricist, though...

Game of Thrones left me cold, I've never managed to sit through a single Star Wars film, and I totally fail to discern what it is that other women see in Johnny Depp, Brad Pitt, or Leonardo DiCaprio, as actors or lookers.
 
Posted by anoesis (# 14189) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Huia:
I hate rugby. Passionately.

Huia

[Biased] I hate netball. Also passionately. [Biased]
 
Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by anoesis:
... I totally fail to discern what it is that other women see in Johnny Depp ...

So do I - in fact, I find him more than a tad creepy.
 
Posted by Gee D (# 13815) on :
 
The proper name of the game is soccer, which is a type of football. Other types include rugby union (still the game they play in heaven), rugby league, American, Aust Rules and probably many others.
 
Posted by simontoad (# 18096) on :
 
I am an anti-soaper.
 
Posted by Ian Climacus (# 944) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by simontoad:
I am an anti-soaper.

???

Not knowing what a soaper is, I can't work out if I'm offended or not.
[Biased]
 
Posted by Doublethink. (# 1984) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Stetson:
quote:
Originally posted by balaam:

I have never watched an episode of Game of Thrones, and have no desire to do so. The same applies to Harry Potter books and films. I do not feel in any way deprived by this.

I've only watched the first Harry Potter film(directed by schlockmeister Chris Columbus), and thought it was awash in Hollywood anglophile stereotypes about the British public-school system. I was actually kind of surprised more British people weren't offended by it. But what do I know, I guess.
Having being to a traditional British boarding school, I would say that would be because it's only a mildly fantastical version of the truth.
 
Posted by Baptist Trainfan (# 15128) on :
 
I hate Country & Western music.

Not keen on Line Dancing, either.

[ 11. October 2017, 08:04: Message edited by: Baptist Trainfan ]
 
Posted by Dafyd (# 5549) on :
 
The Handmaid's Tale is not Margaret Atwood's best book.
It is, however, better than Ishiguro's Never Let Me Go (which is merely alright).
 
Posted by Kittyville (# 16106) on :
 
The classics of English literature leave me cold. Austen, Hardy, Dickens, whatever, all equally meh.
 
Posted by Kitten (# 1179) on :
 
Even before I was a vegetarian I thought Bacon very overrated.
I dislike dogs.
I have no problem with cultures that eat animals that we would consider domestic pets, as long as they are cared for and killed humanely.
I do not like 'Rick and Morty', I have watched it and I do 'get' it but do not like it.
I hate football/soccer.
I hate most country and western music.
I do not find George Clooney & Brad Pitt attractive.
I was not a fan of Lady Diana

[ 11. October 2017, 11:47: Message edited by: Kitten ]
 
Posted by Baptist Trainfan (# 15128) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Kittyville:
The classics of English literature leave me cold. Austen, Hardy, Dickens, whatever, all equally meh.

You're not alone in that - but more honest than many!
 
Posted by L'organist (# 17338) on :
 
The best summer spectator sport is polo: fun to watch, you can take all the family (including the dog) and at most grounds you can get in a car and occupants for £10 or less.

Most babies are ugly, fat ones (aka "bonny") especially so.

Most British girls look like hell in the "traditional" white meringue dress: wrong colour, bad shape - but strapless is worse by several miles.

Most modern art leaves me cold.

I thought (think) Sylvia Plath a rubbish poet.
 
Posted by agingjb (# 16555) on :
 
I like reading Jane Austen's novels, which, I suspect, puts me in an unpopular minority.
 
Posted by andras (# 2065) on :
 
Compared with the present lot of twerps, I think Macmillan was a pretty good Prime Minister.
 
Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by agingjb:
I like reading Jane Austen's novels, which, I suspect, puts me in an unpopular minority.

I'm probably in a smaller one - I like reading Thomas Hardy (helped by not reading them at school).
 
Posted by SvitlanaV2 (# 16967) on :
 
I don't like tea (except herbal tea) or coffee. Not keen on alcohol either.
 
Posted by Amanda B. Reckondwythe (# 5521) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Sipech:
quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
I don’t like strawberries [Eek!]

I agree with you there.

Also: Bruce Springsteen is overrated.

As is Bob Dylan.

I love strawberries, though.

I have been known to walk out of restaurants where persons at my table have ordered shrimp.
 
Posted by Trudy Scrumptious (# 5647) on :
 
I really like a lot of contemporary Christian music.
 
Posted by RuthW (# 13) on :
 
I don't support our troops.
 
Posted by bib (# 13074) on :
 
1.I dislike yoghurt and olive oil even though all the diet books recommend I should eat them.
2.I have never understood the obsession with Princess Diana who I thought was actually rather a silly girl.
3.I loathe rap music and country and western is almost as bad.
4.I hate happy clappy church music and would avoid going to church if that was all that was available.
5.Most pop music seems to have an over heavy drum base and groups seem unable to perform without this cacophany.
6.I am very against surrogacy of babies 'bought' from other countries. Babies are not commodities to be bought and sold.
 
Posted by Uncle Pete (# 10422) on :
 
I detest strawberries and watermelon, and cannot understand why other adore their insipid tastes. Balsamic tastes like melted-in-the-sun soap. Perversely I enjoy cilantro, in moderation. I love dogs. Cats are ok, in moderation, if kept out of my sight. Television and radio and moving-pictures bore me stiff over the last 25 years or so. Thank goodness for books (made of paper only)

I like people but completely enjoy my privacy. The last is a thing of the past now I am in an "independent" living retirement home where staff feel enabled to burst in on you at any given time of the day, or night.
 
Posted by Jane R (# 331) on :
 
Kitten:
quote:
Even before I was a vegetarian I thought Bacon very overrated.
Francis, or Roger? [Biased]

I didn't like the new Wonder Woman film. Bunch of cliches flung together with paper-thin plot. Gal Gadot deserved a much better script.
 
Posted by Pigwidgeon (# 10192) on :
 
I'm convinced that "smart" phones are the instruments of the devil.
 
Posted by Uncle Pete (# 10422) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Pigwidgeon:
I'm convinced that "smart" phones are the instruments of the devil.

Amen, sister.
 
Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:
I don't support our troops.

Whereas I do. I don't support most of the things they are asked to do though.
 
Posted by Prester John (# 5502) on :
 

*spelling- I need my own editor.

[ 11. October 2017, 16:59: Message edited by: Prester John ]
 
Posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider (# 76) on :
 
Where do I start?

Cities are not "vibrant" (what does that even mean?), fun, exiting, stimulating or interesting. They are crowdwd, noisy, filthy, crime-ridden, expensive, polluted middens. Especially that London. Everything I need can be found in the countryside and smaller towns.

Urban and suburban environments should be designed to make motor vehicle use as inconvenient as possible, barring exceptions for disability and frailty, to encourage cycling and walking. This will make cities less noisy, polluted and hostile. A "city car" should be an oxymoron.
 
Posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider (# 76) on :
 
Churchill was not a national hero nor the greatest ever Briton. He was an utter bastard, totally at ease with mass murder and violent repression of dissent.
 
Posted by Sipech (# 16870) on :
 
Most of these have been phrased as negative dissenting opinions, so let's try some examples of turning it round.

I really like sprouts.
 
Posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider (# 76) on :
 
I like steaks at least medium.
 
Posted by Amanda B. Reckondwythe (# 5521) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Sipech:
I really like sprouts.

I knew I should have proposed marriage. Is your passport in order? [Axe murder]
 
Posted by balaam (# 4543) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Kittyville:
The classics of English literature leave me cold. Austen, Hardy, Dickens, whatever, all equally meh.

I disagree about Dickens and Hardy. Austen though is worse than meh. In my opinion she is Britain's, if not the world's, most overrated author.
 
Posted by balaam (# 4543) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
I like steaks at least medium.

You are aware that restaurants reserve the best for medium-rare, rare and blue. You are paying top dollar for inferior meat.
 
Posted by georgiaboy (# 11294) on :
 
I do not like television and have never owned a set.
I have no use for professional sports -- except the Chicago Cubs, which are an exception to ALL rules.
I find Dickens a total bore -- it is obvious he was paid by the word.
I do not like bourbon (in fact, I'm allergic) and I was born in Kentucky!
I heartily dislike 'modernized' liturgy, both texts and format. If it was good enuf for Cranmer (or Pius V), it's ok for me.
Most of John Rutter's music is wretched pap, but a few of his early things I like.

And I'm sure there are more...
 
Posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider (# 76) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by balaam:
quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
I like steaks at least medium.

You are aware that restaurants reserve the best for medium-rare, rare and blue. You are paying top dollar for inferior meat.
I don't want "the best" if it makes me feel sick, which both the texture and taste of rare meat does. Besides, the sort of places I can afford to eat at I doubt are bothering with this sort of snobby bollocks.

Eta - and I just knew this would be the one someone wouldn't be able to resist pickkng. Me up on this one. Some people for some reason cannot cope with tastes varying on this one. Unfortunately too many of them work in poncy restaurants.

[ 11. October 2017, 19:33: Message edited by: Karl: Liberal Backslider ]
 
Posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider (# 76) on :
 
Urgh Android edit fail...
 
Posted by RuthW (# 13) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:
I don't support our troops.

Whereas I do. I don't support most of the things they are asked to do though.
I wish people wouldn't sign up for the military in the first place. American use of the military has been largely hideous for decades, and people shouldn't sign up for supporting the atrocity that is American foreign policy. So I don't support people choosing to join our military, and I only pay the taxes that support it because I have no interest in going to prison.
 
Posted by Ronald Binge (# 9002) on :
 
Tea, wakes and (most) country music are hateful to me. And I live in Donegal. Irish wake central, where weak tea is the beverage of choice at said wakes and country music the ever-present soundtrack.
 
Posted by Stetson (# 9597) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Doublethink.:
quote:
Originally posted by Stetson:
quote:
Originally posted by balaam:

I have never watched an episode of Game of Thrones, and have no desire to do so. The same applies to Harry Potter books and films. I do not feel in any way deprived by this.

I've only watched the first Harry Potter film(directed by schlockmeister Chris Columbus), and thought it was awash in Hollywood anglophile stereotypes about the British public-school system. I was actually kind of surprised more British people weren't offended by it. But what do I know, I guess.
Having being to a traditional British boarding school, I would say that would be because it's only a mildly fantastical version of the truth.
I humbly bow to your personal experience of the school system under discussion. I did get the impression that the creators of that movie were basing it on second-hand(ie. literary or cinematic) portrayals of the boarding schools, but I could indeed be wrong about that.
 
Posted by Stetson (# 9597) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
Churchill was not a national hero nor the greatest ever Briton. He was an utter bastard, totally at ease with mass murder and violent repression of dissent.

In the non-UK anglosphere, there tends to be this ill-informed cult of Churchill, based almost entirely on his record in the build-up to World War II(attacking Munich) and of course the war itself. I don't think most of the people braying his name about in foreign-policy debates(especially anti-Soviets during the Cold War) know anything about him prior to 1938, or after 1945. The fact that he was immediately ousted following the end of the war is particularly undermentioned.


Please read Stetson's caution in the following post.
jedijudy-Heaven Host



National Lampoon did this satire on Churchill fetishism some time in the 1970s. You'll probably recognize most of the parodied quotes. (Scroll down for the beginning of the piece.)

[ 11. October 2017, 22:47: Message edited by: jedijudy ]
 
Posted by Stetson (# 9597) on :
 
Some of the punch-lines in that Churchill piece above are not exactly Heavenly. But I thought of that only after I'd missed the edit window. Read at your own risk.
 
Posted by Stercus Tauri (# 16668) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Gee D:
The proper name of the game is soccer, which is a type of football. Other types include rugby union (still the game they play in heaven), rugby league, American, Aust Rules and probably many others.

Ain't so. 'Soccer' is an abbreviation for 'Association Football'. I've never watched a complete game on account of finding it utterly boring and generally pointless. You are, of course, quite right about rugby.
 
Posted by simontoad (# 18096) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Ian Climacus:
quote:
Originally posted by simontoad:
I am an anti-soaper.

???

Not knowing what a soaper is, I can't work out if I'm offended or not.
[Biased]

Anti-soaper is a term of convenience for those of us who oppose the soap and perfume industry in all its forms. The reasons for our opposition are legion, and this multiplicity is one of the things that divide us.

I am a co-convener of the Natural Odor Action Faction. We in NOAF cherish the natural smell of humanity above all things. Did you know that different people smell differently, even if they eat the same things? It's one of the wonders obscured by our excessive use of soap (including shampoo) and perfume. Indeed, an expert in human body odor like me can assist in identifying murderers and other criminals, including terrorists before they commit a crime. We would be much safer if it wasn't for the bloody French. Of course if the Natural Oils Crew would just see sense and realise that theirs is a subsidiary issue...
 
Posted by mousethief (# 953) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Stercus Tauri:
quote:
Originally posted by Gee D:
The proper name of the game is soccer, which is a type of football.

Ain't so. 'Soccer' is an abbreviation for 'Association Football'.
And that abbreviation has become the proper name of the game. The term "Association football" is the answer to a trivia quiz-show question, not the name of the game.
 
Posted by simontoad (# 18096) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Stercus Tauri:
quote:
Originally posted by Gee D:
The proper name of the game is soccer, which is a type of football. Other types include rugby union (still the game they play in heaven), rugby league, American, Aust Rules and probably many others.

Ain't so. 'Soccer' is an abbreviation for 'Association Football'. I've never watched a complete game on account of finding it utterly boring and generally pointless. You are, of course, quite right about rugby.
I'm glad someone else finally picked Gee D. up on this appalling post. Aust Rules? What the hell is that? Plus, it's not American Football, it's Gridiron. And what about Gaelic Football and International Rules? Surely these are too important to be relegated to the dismissive 'probably many others' category.


[Mad] [Ultra confused] [Yipee]
 
Posted by Ian Climacus (# 944) on :
 
Thank you Mr Toad. I won't stand downwind of you then.
[Razz]
 
Posted by Pigwidgeon (# 10192) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by simontoad:
Did you know that different people smell differently, even if they eat the same things?

My dog (or any dog) could have told you that.
[Razz]
 
Posted by simontoad (# 18096) on :
 
But why should dogs have all the fun?

Hang on, I just had a massive deja vu. Spooky. I don't think I've mentioned this before...
 
Posted by balaam (# 4543) on :
 
The Beatles Sgt Peppers Lonely Hearts Club Band was not their greatest achievement, being inferior, and less original to their previous album Revolver.
 
Posted by mousethief (# 953) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by balaam:
The Beatles Sgt Peppers Lonely Hearts Club Band was not their greatest achievement, being inferior, and less original to their previous album Revolver.

And inferior to Abbey Road, but that's just my opinion.
 
Posted by anoesis (# 14189) on :
 
I might have to duck for cover with this one, even on a confessions thread, but here goes nothing...

I don't find the hunting and killing of whales to be any more fundamentally barbaric than the hunting and killing of deer, or goats, or pigs, or rabbits, or pheasants, or, indeed, fish.
 
Posted by ExclamationMark (# 14715) on :
 
Anything with the word radical in it ("church" "mission") If you have to say it, you're not it

Top Gear. Jeremy Clarkson. In fact anyone talking about cars

Car adverts on TV that use Left hand drive cars - in the UK!

Beer. Pubs. Alcohol of all kinds

Football. Most of all. Who really cares?

Swearing. Pointless, aggressive impolite
 
Posted by ExclamationMark (# 14715) on :
 
It's ok being a white, middle aged hetereosexual man

Oxford University is a dump. A sort of hostel for Townies

Celeb clergy like Richard Coles and Kate Bottley aren't representative of most of us. Most clergy just get on with it all day, every day

I'm not a Royalist ad would like to fly the Red Flag from the new jerusalem

[ 12. October 2017, 04:34: Message edited by: ExclamationMark ]
 
Posted by Ian Climacus (# 944) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
Eta - and I just knew this would be the one someone wouldn't be able to resist pickkng. Me up on this one. Some people for some reason cannot cope with tastes varying on this one. Unfortunately too many of them work in poncy restaurants.

You're one up on me at least...I have mine charcoaled. [Disappointed]

(cue outrage)
 
Posted by Schroedinger's cat (# 64) on :
 
I don't like football at all, have never been to a match, and watched very little of it on TV.

I don't like beer, lager, bitter or any of those hoppy drinks. I would rather drink wine or (decent) cider.

Despite this I am definately a straight male.
 
Posted by Baptist Trainfan (# 15128) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
I don't like beer, lager, bitter or any of those hoppy drinks. I would rather drink wine or (decent) cider.

Despite this I am definately a straight male.

Ditto.
 
Posted by Baptist Trainfan (# 15128) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by ExclamationMark:
Anything with the word radical in it ("church" "mission")

And "vibrant" (you know it's my bete noire).
 
Posted by Baptist Trainfan (# 15128) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by ExclamationMark:
Celeb clergy like Richard Coles ... aren't representative of most of us.

Indeed. I can't dance for toffee, nor do I wear a clerical suit all the time. But, then, I'm not an Anglican. [Devil]
 
Posted by Amanda B. Reckondwythe (# 5521) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
I don't like football at all

I never saw the point of any organized sport. Simply bad manners governed by a rule book. All that grabbing, shoving, etc. If they'd only wait their turn, I'm sure the nice boys would let them play with their ball.
 
Posted by Sipech (# 16870) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Amanda B. Reckondwythe:
I never saw the point of any organized sport. Simply bad manners governed by a rule book. All that grabbing, shoving, etc. If they'd only wait their turn, I'm sure the nice boys would let them play with their ball.

That's why we have cricket, with laws, not rules, played within the spirit of the game.
 
Posted by mousethief (# 953) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Amanda B. Reckondwythe:
quote:
Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
I don't like football at all

I never saw the point of any organized sport. Simply bad manners governed by a rule book. All that grabbing, shoving, etc. If they'd only wait their turn, I'm sure the nice boys would let them play with their ball.
Play what? You've just taken away all their games.
 
Posted by Baptist Trainfan (# 15128) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Sipech:
That's why we have cricket, with laws, not rules, played within the spirit of the game.

Such as "bodyline" bowling or bouncers, sledging, picking at the seam of the ball, appealing for decisions that you know weren't "out", spinning out the over rate ...
 
Posted by Mr Clingford (# 7961) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:
quote:
Originally posted by Sipech:
That's why we have cricket, with laws, not rules, played within the spirit of the game.

Such as "bodyline" bowling or bouncers, sledging, picking at the seam of the ball, appealing for decisions that you know weren't "out", spinning out the over rate ...
Come on, this nit-picking is just not cricket.

Hardy is an interesting one. I just reread A Pair of Blue Eyes after 20 years and was driven mad by his sexist comments about women, which he made nearly all the time. Perhaps I should reread Far From the Madding Crowd.
 
Posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider (# 76) on :
 
Back to unpopular opinions...

Michael Jackson was utter shite.

Food should come on plates, not shovels, not in little shopping trolleys, on slates or hung up on a shopping line. "Deconstructed" food is pretentious bollocks; putting mashed potato on top of the meat is the whole point of a Shepherd's Pie.

Red wine goes better than white with chicken. In fact it goes better with anything because white wine is wee-wee.

Beer goes better with cheese than wine does.

Scrambled eggs and omelettes should never have any liquid egg remaining; they do not go "leathery" when this is ensured; they go "cooked and no longer disgusting".
 
Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on :
 
A Pair Of Blue Eyes is, as enny fule kno, partly autobiographical, but I can't say I'm aware of Hardy being particularly sexist in that or any of his other novels.

Many of his heroines (or even anti-heroines, such as Sue Bridehead or Eustachia Vye) are portrayed as strong women of independent thought, despite the tragic events that take place in their lives.

IJ
 
Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on :
 
Sorry to double-post, but Karl is Right about red wine going with chicken, and that white wine is (with rare exceptions, the names of which I can't at the moment recall) reconstituted urine.

Oh, and I dislike Dogs (properly-trained Working Dogs excepted), as they are generally a foul mess at one end, and a foul noise at the other end.

IJ
 
Posted by Stetson (# 9597) on :
 
[Originally posted by mistake in the movies thread...]

I don't see what was so brilliantly witty about Mandy Rice-Davies saying "Well, he would, wouldn't he?" at the Profumo trial.

The lawyer had basically asked her opinion about Astor's denial that he had an affair with her, and she replied with what I would have assumed is a pretty logical counterpoint, ie. obviously Astor would have an interest in denying he commited adultery.

I guess it's maybe one of those "different time, different place" sorta things? In the early 60s, it was still somewhat shocking that an 18 year old woman would so casually dismiss the claims of a respected aristocrat? Still find it hard to believe that it would be THAT much of an eyebrow raiser, especially considering that she had already said they had an affair.
 
Posted by Stetson (# 9597) on :
 
quote:
Michael Jackson was utter shite.


I've always found it odd that immediately after it became the vogue to start laughing at disco, Michael Jackson came along and took pop culture by storm, since his music to me seems pretty indistinguihshable from disco.

That said, I wouldn't say his music was "shite", though I didn't think there was anything really interesting or even catchy about it. Back during his heyday, I was at a loss to figure out what all the hoopla was about.
 
Posted by Schroedinger's cat (# 64) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Amanda B. Reckondwythe:
quote:
Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
I don't like football at all

I never saw the point of any organized sport. Simply bad manners governed by a rule book. All that grabbing, shoving, etc. If they'd only wait their turn, I'm sure the nice boys would let them play with their ball.
The thing is, i do quite like Rugby and ice hockey. In fact any game where it is legitimate to "body block" an opponent (run into them), is fun to watch. Less sport, IMO, more just people scrapping without doing lasting damage.
 
Posted by John Holding (# 158) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
quote:
Originally posted by Stercus Tauri:
quote:
Originally posted by Gee D:
The proper name of the game is soccer, which is a type of football.

Ain't so. 'Soccer' is an abbreviation for 'Association Football'.
And that abbreviation has become the proper name of the game.
But only in north america. Which is not, contrary to the belief of many north americans, the centre of the world and the arbiter of all human activity

The game in qestion is organized throughout the owrld (including in North America) by a body called FIFA -- I don't see an S for soccer in its title ...but I do see an F for football.

John
 
Posted by Sarah G (# 11669) on :
 
Flashdance is a really good film.

(Once you get past the 80s clothing.)
 
Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by John Holding:
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
quote:
Originally posted by Stercus Tauri:
quote:
Originally posted by Gee D:
The proper name of the game is soccer, which is a type of football.

Ain't so. 'Soccer' is an abbreviation for 'Association Football'.
And that abbreviation has become the proper name of the game.
But only in north america. Which is not, contrary to the belief of many north americans, the centre of the world and the arbiter of all human activity

The game in qestion is organized throughout the owrld (including in North America) by a body called FIFA -- I don't see an S for soccer in its title ...but I do see an F for football.

John

The S-O-C- in soccer is for asSOCiation football. It is a British nickname which seems to have dropped in usage soon after the Americans started using it.
Story.
 
Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by balaam:
quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
I like steaks at least medium.

You are aware that restaurants reserve the best for medium-rare, rare and blue. You are paying top dollar for inferior meat.
If you cook it to medium, how could you tell anyway?
 
Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
I don't want "the best" if it makes me feel sick, which both the texture and taste of rare meat does. Besides, the sort of places I can afford to eat at I doubt are bothering with this sort of snobby bollocks.

It isn't "snobby bollocks". The correct temperature of a cut of meat is whichever one you prefer. However, if cooked to medium or more, much of the flavour is gone. Like drinking beer cold, the flavour profile is limited.
 
Posted by Kitten (# 1179) on :
 
Elvis was overrated

I do not like London

I do not give money to any military charities
 
Posted by SvitlanaV2 (# 16967) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by ExclamationMark:

Celeb clergy like Richard Coles and Kate Bottley aren't representative of most of us. Most clergy just get on with it all day, every day

But I suppose that to most British people the clergy are invisible. Celeb clergy at least remind ordinary folk that such people still exist. I do wonder where they find the time to be on telly or host radio shows, though.

OK, now I'm going to throw Harry Potter into the ring. I read the first one, and I was even dragged along to the first film. Decent enough for kids, I'm sure, but I really don't get the fuss, and I haven't bothered with any more installments.
 
Posted by mousethief (# 953) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
The correct temperature of a cut of meat is whichever one you prefer. However, if cooked to medium or more, much of the flavour is gone.

Which is why "steak sauce" was invented. A well-prepared steak shouldn't need to have flavor enhancers, except salt and pepper. The flavor is in the meat.
 
Posted by Lyda*Rose (# 4544) on :
 
The wedding thread in Hell reminded me of how UnAmerican I am: I love me a Texas Manor fruitcake. It's rich, chewy, fruity, nutty, and doesn't have those disgusting bitter rinds, just candied pineapples and cherries and dried fruits. The company has been in business for years so someone else must like them, too. More for me says I.
 
Posted by Rossweisse (# 2349) on :
 
...whereas I rejoiced to receive the order form for Assumption Abbey fruitcakes this very day. Yum.
 
Posted by Gee D (# 13815) on :
 
And soccer is the name of the game here, despite strong attempts to take over the generic for the particular - probably trying to increase the status of what is amongst adults here very much a minority game.
 
Posted by Dormouse (# 5954) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by SvitlanaV2:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by ExclamationMark:
[qb]


OK, now I'm going to throw Harry Potter into the ring. I read the first one, and I was even dragged along to the first film. Decent enough for kids, I'm sure, but I really don't get the fuss, and I haven't bothered with any more installments.

Oh YES! I worked this summer with a bunch of HP fans who almost had a fit when I said that I thought the books were boring and not very well-writtezn. I found the films (those that I saw) rather tedious too.
I do, however, like the HP books for the fact that they were (in my opinion anyway) the Enid Blyton of the day - in that they got children reading. I remember a boy in my class who was not a good reader, being absolutely determined to read the first HP when it came out. By the end ofthe book, he saw himself as "a reader"
 
Posted by Brenda Clough (# 18061) on :
 
Yep, I'm with you. Never read Harry Potter, and from intermittent glimpses of the movies I don't think I ever will. Nor Game of Thrones, nor (ugh) Fifty Shades of Grey. I walk along untrodden ways, beside the (literary) Springs of Dove.
 
Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 
Cannot abide Lord of the Rings, books or films.
 
Posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider (# 76) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
Cannot abide Lord of the Rings, books or films.

Only book over 300 pages I ever managed to get through.
 
Posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider (# 76) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
I don't want "the best" if it makes me feel sick, which both the texture and taste of rare meat does. Besides, the sort of places I can afford to eat at I doubt are bothering with this sort of snobby bollocks.

It isn't "snobby bollocks". The correct temperature of a cut of meat is whichever one you prefer. However, if cooked to medium or more, much of the flavour is gone. Like drinking beer cold, the flavour profile is limited.
IME, new flavours develop. Ones I like better than the taste of raw meat. Texture's the other issue. The "snobby bollocks" is looking down on people and giving them the gristly pieces in the mistaken belief that we can't tell.
 
Posted by ExclamationMark (# 14715) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
Cannot abide Lord of the Rings, books or films.

Ditto me but with C S Lewis
 
Posted by georgiaboy (# 11294) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
Back to unpopular opinions...

Michael Jackson was utter shite.

Food should come on plates, not shovels, not in little shopping trolleys, on slates or hung up on a shopping line. "Deconstructed" food is pretentious bollocks; putting mashed potato on top of the meat is the whole point of a Shepherd's Pie.

Red wine goes better than white with chicken. In fact it goes better with anything because white wine is wee-wee.

Beer goes better with cheese than wine does.

Scrambled eggs and omelettes should never have any liquid egg remaining; they do not go "leathery" when this is ensured; they go "cooked and no longer disgusting".

This is a first! First ever post from Karl LB with which I've totally and enthusiastically agreed. Bravo!
 
Posted by Paul. (# 37) on :
 
A couple of SoF ones to start:


A few Christian ones:


Actually I could go on and on with those but I'll stop.

Finally some general ones:

Sorry that was probably too many. I kept trying to think of positive ones but mostly failed.
 
Posted by Stetson (# 9597) on :
 
Paul's comment on single-joke sitcoms prompts me to opine...

Married With Children was not particularly clever or even funny. It was basically just a bunch of Rodney Dangerfield-style jokes about family life, strung together in skit form, week after week for ten years. There was no depth or development to any of the characters, they were just delivery mechanisms for punch-lines.

(And for the record, yes, I think Rodney Dangerfield was funny, but there's a reason why stand-up comics aren't usually given weekly TV shows where they just tell jokes for half and hour.)
 
Posted by Golden Key (# 1468) on :
 
ExclamationMark--

quote:
Originally posted by ExclamationMark:
quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
Cannot abide Lord of the Rings, books or films.

Ditto me but with C S Lewis
If I may ask: fiction, non-fiction, or both? (It's ok not to answer.)
 
Posted by Golden Key (# 1468) on :
 
Sioni Sais--

quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
Cannot abide Lord of the Rings, books or films.

I had a hard time getting into the series, at the beginning. And all the battles. I preferred "The Silmarillion", which collects the myths and legends of that world.

When the movies came out, though, I found I remembered more of the main books than I thought. [Smile]

I do think that Tolkien's writing is sometimes too detailed, and thus overwhelming. Too much going on at once.
 
Posted by M. (# 3291) on :
 
No, Tolkien is not 'overwhelming' , it's boring.

M.
 
Posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider (# 76) on :
 
Tolkien relies on the reader having the right sort of imagination to build a mental image from his narrative. If you cannot see Lothlórien in the descriptions of Mallorns and Caras Galadhon, it will bore you.

[ 14. October 2017, 06:51: Message edited by: Karl: Liberal Backslider ]
 
Posted by Jengie jon (# 273) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by ExclamationMark:
quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
Cannot abide Lord of the Rings, books or films.

Ditto me but with C S Lewis
Firstly let me state my credentials. C.S. Lewis was the author who got me reading as a child. My book addiction is, therefore, his responsibility.

However, as I have read more and more widely I have developed cautions and critiques of Lewis. It is pretty easy to see why his writing would not appeal to everyone while still enjoying it myself.

In some ways, it is interesting to compare Lewis to Tolkien. Tolkien for me is a page turner, the only one comparable for me is J.K Rowling but there is more depth to Tolkien. His detail draws me in and onward. Lewis does not rely on description to the same extent, his description is often cursory and it, therefore, depends far more on the plot and you care about the characters.

Jengie
 
Posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider (# 76) on :
 
The theological writings I find increasingly irrelevant to where I personally am. The fiction - well, the kids' stuff is fine up to a point, but I've always thought the Out of the silent planet trilogy a bit weird, and That Hideous Strength just tries far too hard. Not that I'm opposed to weird; I rather liked Vonnegurt's Sirens of Titan, which out-weirds Lewis by a country mile, but somehow it's not good weird.

Like Tolkien, I dislike allegory. I often wonder how the Tolkien/Lewis friendship coped with Tolkien's stated dislike and the allegorical nature of much of Lewis' writing.
 
Posted by SvitlanaV2 (# 16967) on :
 
Unfortunately, I only read the first Narnia story as an adult and, like Harry Potter, it just seems to be a book for kids. By contrast, I've read one of C. S. Lewis's adult books and it seemed quite interesting. Maybe not much use to those with more theological knowledge.

Talking of theology, I must admit that I'm not really drawn to much of it. A lot of the stuff I've heard of seems so abstract and irrelevant to the lives of ordinary Christians. OTOH I've enjoyed reading black British and urban theology because it's about lived experience, things I recognise from my environment. But in general I'd rather read about the sociology of religion than theology.
 
Posted by mr cheesy (# 3330) on :
 
Absolutely no interest in Dickens. I think it is low grade puff.

I'd much rather read Dostoevsky or Cervantes. I'd love to be able to read Russian, Spanish (ancient Greek, Danish etc) to get the full effect.
 
Posted by Schroedinger's cat (# 64) on :
 
I love Tolkien, the imagination and depth is an inspiration. Lewis less deep in his fiction, but his theological works are a great insight into thinking at the time (and yes, they are useful, but need updating).

As a writer, I think they are very challenging - to see how hard Tolkien worked shames me.

But no, not for everyone. I accept and understand that.

If you want an overrated author - James Joyce. And yes, I have read Finnegans wake and Ullyses. Drivel. And Proust - just get to the f*cking point.
 
Posted by mr cheesy (# 3330) on :
 
Other unpopular opinions:

* Slavoj Žižek is a performance artist. The vagueness isn't a sign of brilliance or cleverness, it is all just an act.

* Julian Assange and wikileaks have always been part of a Russian misinformation campaign.

* We're not going to be able to stop runaway climate change. Too little has been done and we're too late.

* Fairtrade is basically bollocks

* Things are not going to be ok. Things are not ever going to be ok, and they're going to get a lot worse fairly soon.
 
Posted by Moo (# 107) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
Like Tolkien, I dislike allegory. I often wonder how the Tolkien/Lewis friendship coped with Tolkien's stated dislike and the allegorical nature of much of Lewis' writing.

Lewis specifically said that his Narnia books were not allegory, which involves a one-to-one correspondence between the specific elements of the allegory and the real-world situation depicted.

Lewis said the Narnia books are fantasies about what a land with talking animals and an all-powerful beneficent lion would be like.

Obviously the books are written from a Christian viewpoint.

Moo
 
Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :
 
It is not a duck. It is a feathered fantasy beast which quacks and waddles which was created by a duck enthusiast.
 
Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :
 
George Lucas is a hack writer. He is a wannabe auteur with one great film, and no, it isn’t Star Wars. *
He is a credible director when he has constraints, but crap when he doesn’t.

*I love Star Wars, and it is a terrific franchise (minus the prequels) but they are not great films.
 
Posted by Brenda Clough (# 18061) on :
 
Also, SW is not SF. It's fantasy.
 
Posted by John Holding (# 158) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by SvitlanaV2:
Unfortunately, I only read the first Narnia story as an adult and, like Harry Potter, it just seems to be a book for kids.

Well, yeah. Why on earth would you expect either to be anything other than a book for kids?

John
 
Posted by Schroedinger's cat (# 64) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
Also, SW is not SF. It's fantasy.

Sort of on this theme, Star Wars and Star Trek (after the first series) are not SF, they are fantasy, and fan fic.

If these are all you have read of SF, try something different.
 
Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
IME, new flavours develop.

charcoal, leather...
quote:
The "snobby bollocks" is looking down on people and giving them the gristly pieces in the mistaken belief that we can't tell.

Again, not snobby. A chef creates/cooks a dish to taste good. And this naturally is going to be what s/he thinks is good. Snobby might be the attitude of some, but then it might also be projection in some instances. As far as being served worse pieces of meat, I never encountered this when I did eat steak that was overcooked. I mean. "well"done. [Biased]
 
Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on :
 
To those of you who dislike Tolkien, Lewis, Hardy, and/or Rowling:

IS EXTREME OUTRAGE!!!

(Mousethief, My People will be in touch with Your People).

Three of the greatest writers of the 19th/20th/21st centuries....

You will have to answer to them in Heaven (yes, yes, I know JKR is very much alive - may she remain so for lustra to come).

IJ
 
Posted by Schroedinger's cat (# 64) on :
 
Rowling is a lovely person, and as a writer she has done a lot for young peoples reading. And her books are generally pretty good, and often very clever.

One of the mose influential writers yes. The best, I am not so sure.
 
Posted by L'organist (# 17338) on :
 
War and Peace is not a good book. The War is fine, the Peace so-so, and the And is mind-numbing tedium. You want to know the story, then watch the Bondarchuk film.

And the Hollywood film of W&P is utter shite, with Henry Fonda in particular giving a performance so wooden you could make a console table from it.
 
Posted by Brenda Clough (# 18061) on :
 
Oh, sing it, L'org. Tolstoy spends pages and pages harping on the Battle of Borodino. But never do a battle do we see, only Russian people having angst about it. Boring! Some (IMO) deluded Broadway people decided to put W&P onto the stage as a musical. It's titled Natasha & Pierre & the Great Comet, and succeeds mainly by peeling out the one interesting story line in the entire volume. Perhaps 1/60th of the actual work makes it onto the stage.
 
Posted by Rossweisse (# 2349) on :
 
Rowling spins a good tale, and her imagined world has the critical ingredients of consistency and interior logic. I enjoyed most of the books. But "Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix" is, at 870 (!) pages, at least 200 pages too long. It's redundant and dreary, and some of the action is just gratuitous. It is desperately in need of editing; I don't know if I could face that one again.
 
Posted by mr cheesy (# 3330) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:
War and Peace is not a good book. The War is fine, the Peace so-so, and the And is mind-numbing tedium. You want to know the story, then watch the Bondarchuk film.


Ain't that the truth: started the bugger loads of times, never ever got past page 100.

If he hadn't also written Anna, I'd have no idea why people see to think that Leo is so marvellous.
 
Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
Rowling is a lovely person, and as a writer she has done a lot for young peoples reading. And her books are generally pretty good, and often very clever.

One of the mose influential writers yes. The best, I am not so sure.

Well no. Not one of the most influential writers. It is possible she might become so, but she isn’t yet.
 
Posted by mr cheesy (# 3330) on :
 
fwiw I thought that typo was probably meant to be "more". I think she's very likely very influential, although "most" is a hard thing to prove.
 
Posted by Schroedinger's cat (# 64) on :
 
Of course, War and Peace is really more of a philosophocal treatice than a story. The story is the exploration of the philosophy, because Tolstoy was a philosopher really (and an interesting one).

The BBC serialisations are good. But the book is incredibly hard going (and yes, I have read it. All through).

lilBuddha - I suppose it depends who you are looking at. For authors, she will become a major influence. But for readers, for culture, she is a huge influence.
 
Posted by mr cheesy (# 3330) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
Of course, War and Peace is really more of a philosophocal treatice than a story. The story is the exploration of the philosophy, because Tolstoy was a philosopher really (and an interesting one).

Oh yes, absolutely. And of course Dosteovsky is also a philosopher.

And that's the interesting thing. The great Russian novelists were philosophers. The two great British novelists we've discussed above (Tolkien and Lewis) were Oxford dons.

Dickens was a dick, Hardy stole his best stories from others, George Eliot mostly seems to have hidden away from the world for most of her life, the Brontes lived and died in obscurity.

I'm sure this says something about the British literary and national character.
 
Posted by Brenda Clough (# 18061) on :
 
Her impact on the publishing field is huge. No more do the editors announce to us that children's books cannot be more than 100 pages long.
My niece was so enamored of the books that she, and two friends, have been re-enacting them. They film it on their cell phone cameras, in no particular order, and then she edits the takes together into a coherent film. Bosoms burgeon and shrink, braces come on and off, heights go up and down crazily'; all the characters are played by these three girls. But they did =all= the books, over a period of perhaps ten years -- the girls are now in their mid-20s and have just finished up. No other work I know has inspired this level of devotion.
 
Posted by mr cheesy (# 3330) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
Her impact on the publishing field is huge. No more do the editors announce to us that children's books cannot be more than 100 pages long.
My niece was so enamored of the books that she, and two friends, have been re-enacting them. They film it on their cell phone cameras, in no particular order, and then she edits the takes together into a coherent film. Bosoms burgeon and shrink, braces come on and off, heights go up and down crazily'; all the characters are played by these three girls. But they did =all= the books, over a period of perhaps ten years -- the girls are now in their mid-20s and have just finished up. No other work I know has inspired this level of devotion.

I've never read any of them, so I can't speak to the quality of the prose. However, I think there are many historical parallels with fanatical fans of fiction in the past.

And I think this might be a reason some dislike Rowling. They suspect that her fiction will not last, that it will be a flash in the pan and that the fanatical fan support the books get today will be forgotten in 10 or 20 years.

Of course, that's really hard to tell whilst we are living in the era when the books are popular. Let's meet again in 50 years and discuss the impact.

[ 14. October 2017, 21:22: Message edited by: mr cheesy ]
 
Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:

lilBuddha - I suppose it depends who you are looking at. For authors, she will become a major influence.

Might be later. Currently is, I suppose, if you mean that the market is flooded by magic children.

quote:

But for readers, for culture, she is a huge influence.

Again, currently. Perhaps for the long run, we don't know yet.
Look, I am not the anti-Rowling, I am not dismissing her impact. But history is full of people who were popular in their day but have faded. Whether Rowling stands the test of time will take actual time to know.
quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
Her impact on the publishing field is huge. No more do the editors announce to us that children's books cannot be more than 100 pages long.

You mean Teen books, I think? Anyway Anne of Green Gables, Black Beauty, The Princess Bride, The Lord of the Flies, Flowers for Algernon, The Shannara series, The Narnia Series, Something Wicked This Way Comes, The Hobbit, etc.
quote:

No other work I know has inspired this level of devotion.

See much of the above.
 
Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by mr cheesy:

Of course, that's really hard to tell whilst we are living in the era when the books are popular.

For this, I think, she deserves immediate recognition. Reading has been in decline and any bump it gets is praiseworthy.
 
Posted by Amorya (# 2652) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
Her impact on the publishing field is huge. No more do the editors announce to us that children's books cannot be more than 100 pages long.
My niece was so enamored of the books that she, and two friends, have been re-enacting them. They film it on their cell phone cameras, in no particular order, and then she edits the takes together into a coherent film. Bosoms burgeon and shrink, braces come on and off, heights go up and down crazily'; all the characters are played by these three girls. But they did =all= the books, over a period of perhaps ten years -- the girls are now in their mid-20s and have just finished up. No other work I know has inspired this level of devotion.

That's amazing! Have they put any of them online?

When I was an undergrad, a group of us made a spoof version of Chamber of Secrets while staying at Iona Abbey. (Video here if anyone wants to see a bunch of students pratting around!) It's one of the best memories of my university days. Which were over ten years ago now, somehow. Definitely before I had a cellphone that could record video!
 
Posted by Brenda Clough (# 18061) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Amorya:

That's amazing! Have they put any of them online?

When I was an undergrad, a group of us made a spoof version of Chamber of Secrets while staying at Iona Abbey. (Video here if anyone wants to see a bunch of students pratting around!) It's one of the best memories of my university days. Which were over ten years ago now, somehow. Definitely before I had a cellphone that could record video! [/QB][/QUOTE]

No, that's what's so fascinating. It was done only for the three of them, out of pure love of the books. They use household items as props, seized on the fly. Chopsticks play the role of magic wands) and the dogs are pressed into duty as dragons, monsters, etc. The three girls double and treble every role. It was raw enthusiasm, a fiery desire to somehow be a part of the works..
 
Posted by mousethief (# 953) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by mr cheesy:
And I think this might be a reason some dislike Rowling. They suspect that her fiction will not last, that it will be a flash in the pan and that the fanatical fan support the books get today will be forgotten in 10 or 20 years.

Some people make it a point to dislike anything that's wildly popular, because it makes them feel superior.
 
Posted by mousethief (# 953) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
I love Tolkien, the imagination and depth is an inspiration. Lewis less deep in his fiction, but his theological works are a great insight into thinking at the time (and yes, they are useful, but need updating).

I'd say the exact opposite. His adult fiction (Till We Have Faces & The Great Divorce) are excellent, especially the former by factors of 10. His theology is, by and large, shite. His philology lite books (Studies in Words, The Discarded Image, and An Experiment in Criticism) are worth thrice the money.
 
Posted by Paul. (# 37) on :
 
I devoured the Narnia books as a kid. As an adult I'm less enamoured of them. Last year I re-read The Magician's Nephew - which was always my favourite. I enjoyed it but felt no desire to continue with the series.

I'm too old to have read Harry Potter as anything but an adult. Enjoyed them all, my favourite is probably Half-Blood Prince though I also really like Chamber of Secrets. She definitely suffered from lack of editing in the later longer ones.

Lewis always claimed that Narnia wasn't an allegory but I'm not sure even he believed it. I remember flicking through a book of his letters to children (basically him answering fan mail) in which a young girl had asked if Aslan was meant to be the Lion of the tribe of Judah. He said yes. I wonder if he just denied it because it forestalled a bunch of questions about specifics that would have been tedious (even in an allegory not every little thing stands for something - preachers preaching on parables please take note).
 
Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Paul.:
She definitely suffered from lack of editing in the later longer ones.

Thank you, this is a point I meant to address but forgot.
Longer ≠ better. Many authors I have followed through their career have gotten worse as their books were allowed to get longer.
 
Posted by mousethief (# 953) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
quote:
Originally posted by Paul.:
She definitely suffered from lack of editing in the later longer ones.

Thank you, this is a point I meant to address but forgot.
Longer ≠ better. Many authors I have followed through their career have gotten worse as their books were allowed to get longer.

I agree. By book 7 she was a major star (THE major star in several subgenres) and either felt herself above editing, or was feared by her editors enough that they applied a light hand. It mars the book, IMHO.
 
Posted by jedijudy (# 333) on :
 
Amorya, I love your video! It looks like it was fun to produce and it was certainly fun for me to watch!
The Quidditch match was awesome! [Big Grin]
 
Posted by SvitlanaV2 (# 16967) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by John Holding:
quote:
Originally posted by SvitlanaV2:
Unfortunately, I only read the first Narnia story as an adult and, like Harry Potter, it just seems to be a book for kids.

Well, yeah. Why on earth would you expect either to be anything other than a book for kids?

John

Harry Potter in particular has been promoted as a good read for adults as well as children, certainly in the UK. The publishers have produced adult editions of the books, and many of the people I've heard praising them are adults. (Not necessarily adults who are simply grateful that their children are reading books!)

I don't disapprove of HP, though, and nor do I resent the author's success. It's just that the first book didn't do anything for me, and I'm unconvinced that the others would rectify that.

OTOH I'd like to understand what makes a stonking bestseller, so I probably ought to study the HP phenomenon quite carefully....

BTW, will anyone admit to liking Dan Brown?
 
Posted by Moo (# 107) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by mr cheesy:
Dickens was a dick, Hardy stole his best stories from others, George Eliot mostly seems to have hidden away from the world for most of her life, the Brontes lived and died in obscurity.

I'm sure this says something about the British literary and national character.

You didn't mention Trollope, who is my favorite British novelist.

Moo
 
Posted by Nick Tamen (# 15164) on :
 
I think Dan Brown can be a fun, page-turning read. And a good conspiracy theory can be entertaining. But his understanding of things like church history—or pretty much history period—is beyond laughable.

Once I hit 50, I decided to stop apologizing for what I like to read. As a general rule, non-fiction bores me senseless. I like fiction, fantasy in particular, but usually I’d much rather read books aimed mainly at younger audiences (like Harry Potter) than Great Literature, and that’s what I don’t apologize for any more. Currently I’m reading some Rick Reardon, but it is fall, and I do have a bad habit of re-reading Lord of the Rings every few years in the fall.

As for Lewis, I liked the Narnia books when I was younger, but I have little desire to re-read them these days. That said, I think Voyage of the Dawn Treader may have my favorite opening line of any book: “There once was a boy named Eustace Clarence Scrubb, and he almost deserved it.”
 
Posted by Stetson (# 9597) on :
 
quote:
I think Dan Brown can be a fun, page-turning read. And a good conspiracy theory can be entertaining. But his understanding of things like church history—or pretty much history period—is beyond laughable.
I think I've said this before, but I detect in the whole Holy Blood Holy Grail/Da Vinci Code thing a residue of the protestant bias against celibacy, but applied all the way up to Jesus Christ, ie. it just doesn't make sense to some people that Jesus wouldn't get married, settle down, and have kids, like any normal human being.

Similar considerations lay behind the theology expounded by the Reverend Moon and his Unification Church: Jesus failed in his mission by not having a family, so it was left up to the Reverend Moon, married with kids, to be the saviour of mankind.

I suspect that Moon thought his emphasis on family life would make a big hit in his Confucian homeland, but it hasn't really worked out that way at all. I have only met about a half-dozen or so Moonies in Korea, and almost all of them were foreigners.
 
Posted by Brenda Clough (# 18061) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Moo:
quote:
Originally posted by mr cheesy:
Dickens was a dick, Hardy stole his best stories from others, George Eliot mostly seems to have hidden away from the world for most of her life, the Brontes lived and died in obscurity.

I'm sure this says something about the British literary and national character.

You didn't mention Trollope, who is my favorite British novelist.

Moo

Many creative people are unsatisfactory human beings. (Actually many =people=.) Except in really egregious cases (Harvey Weinsteinn, looking at you) we should split off the judgment of the work from how well we might like the creator; otherwise we'll have no music, no art, and no books. I think it was Dorothy Sayers who suggested that, at the personal Judgment, one's work would stand up, and speak for the workman.
 
Posted by ExclamationMark (# 14715) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
ExclamationMark--

quote:
Originally posted by ExclamationMark:
quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
Cannot abide Lord of the Rings, books or films.

Ditto me but with C S Lewis
If I may ask: fiction, non-fiction, or both? (It's ok not to answer.)
All of it. Smug and middle class tosh
 
Posted by ExclamationMark (# 14715) on :
 
Science Fiction. Why?
 
Posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider (# 76) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
quote:
Originally posted by Paul.:
She definitely suffered from lack of editing in the later longer ones.

Thank you, this is a point I meant to address but forgot.
Longer ≠ better. Many authors I have followed through their career have gotten worse as their books were allowed to get longer.

I agree. By book 7 she was a major star (THE major star in several subgenres) and either felt herself above editing, or was feared by her editors enough that they applied a light hand. It mars the book, IMHO.
This is often said, and perhaps I have a cloth ear for literature, but contra my earlier statement, the later HP books are the only ones of significant length I've managed to get to the end of, so I'm not sure the problem is that great.
 
Posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider (# 76) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by ExclamationMark:
Science Fiction. Why?

For the same reason as fantasy. Sometimes this reality is a bit mundane.

Which reminds me. Another umpopular opinion: James Bond is unwatchable dull shite with all the plot complexity of Peppa Pig.
 
Posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider (# 76) on :
 
And to triple post, the post before last should read "the only other ones (besides LOTR)"
 
Posted by Jane R (# 331) on :
 
mousethief:
quote:
By book 7 [Rowling] was a major star (THE major star in several subgenres) and either felt herself above editing, or was feared by her editors enough that they applied a light hand. It mars the book, IMHO.
Book 7? I thought the rot set in with book 4. Book 5 has the dubious honour of being one of the (very) few books I have read which I think is worse than the film.

She's good at plots, especially intricate mystery-type plots, but about average at characterisation and definitely below par at world-building. And she did not make life easy for herself, stretching each story over a whole school year (with the result that nothing much happens for most of book 7, Hermione Granger and the Camping Trip of Doom).

I found myself feeling more and more sorry for the teachers who had to mark Hermione's essays as the series progressed...

Oh, and Harry should have married Luna. Ginny Weasley has no personality.

[ 15. October 2017, 13:30: Message edited by: Jane R ]
 
Posted by Brenda Clough (# 18061) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
quote:
Originally posted by ExclamationMark:
Science Fiction. Why?

For the same reason as fantasy. Sometimes this reality is a bit mundane.

Which reminds me. Another umpopular opinion: James Bond is unwatchable dull shite with all the plot complexity of Peppa Pig.

Oh yes. And fantastically misogynist, it's shocking. They're very nearly unreadable now.
 
Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on :
 
O, I think the later Bond fillums (with Daniel Craig) are very watchable....

But as for those with Roger Moore (RIPARIG) - sheer tosh.

[Razz]

IJ
 
Posted by Schroedinger's cat (# 64) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by ExclamationMark:
Science Fiction. Why?

Because it enables you to ask questions, to imagine, to explore possibilities.

But you need to read good SF, not fanfic SF.
 
Posted by Nick Tamen (# 15164) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
Some (IMO) deluded Broadway people decided to put W&P onto the stage as a musical. It's titled Natasha & Pierre & the Great Comet, and succeeds mainly by peeling out the one interesting story line in the entire volume. Perhaps 1/60th of the actual work makes it onto the stage.

Actually, the title is Natasha, Pierre & The Great Comet of 1812, which is amusing for a stage musical drawn from War and Peace, because almost no one seems to use the too-long title. It has become known among theater people simply as The Great Comet or (less often) as Natasha & Pierre.
 
Posted by Brenda Clough (# 18061) on :
 
I'm certain the success of Les Miserables emboldened them. Another very nearly unreadable novel, btw.
 
Posted by Dafyd (# 5549) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
I'm certain the success of Les Miserables emboldened them. Another very nearly unreadable novel, btw.

It is readable. You just have to realise that you're not reading it for the plot. The plot is a piece of threadbare sentimental melodrama that would make Dickens blush. You're reading it for the digressions. Hugo was an unashamedly Romantic poet and his digressions are unashamedly Romantic prose-poems.
 
Posted by Hedgehog (# 14125) on :
 
A bit of a niche topic, but I really don't think that Jack Kirby was all that good as either a comic book artist or writer. Certainly unworthy of the praise that he gets.
 
Posted by mousethief (# 953) on :
 
The Doors are vastly overrated and not in the least psychedelic.
 
Posted by mousethief (# 953) on :
 
eta: in their big hits. Obviously "the End" is pretty psychedelic. LA Lady? It is to laugh.
 
Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
I'm certain the success of Les Miserables emboldened them. Another very nearly unreadable novel, btw.

Could be the translation.
Which leads to my unpopular opinion: If you are reading a translation, you are not reading the novel.
 
Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :
 
Another one.

The Hitchhicker's Guide to the Galaxy is not a good book or series of books.

I've been told the teleplay is actually worth listening to and the best representation of the work. But the books themselves? meh.
 
Posted by Nick Tamen (# 15164) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
I'm certain the success of Les Miserables emboldened them. Another very nearly unreadable novel, btw.

Could be the translation.
Which leads to my unpopular opinion: If you are reading a translation, you are not reading the novel.

Which would be an issue with Tolstoy as well.
 
Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Nick Tamen:
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
I'm certain the success of Les Miserables emboldened them. Another very nearly unreadable novel, btw.

Could be the translation.
Which leads to my unpopular opinion: If you are reading a translation, you are not reading the novel.

Which would be an issue with Tolstoy as well.
And Beowulf and even, to a degree, Shakespeare.
 
Posted by Stetson (# 9597) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
Another one.

The Hitchhicker's Guide to the Galaxy is not a good book or series of books.

I've been told the teleplay is actually worth listening to and the best representation of the work. But the books themselves? meh.

I'm pretty sure that, even prior to seeing that particular episode of HGTTG, I, as a young teenager, had already come up with the idea of answering with a number a question that calls for words. It's just kind of one of those archetypal absurdist jokes, like answering "What is the capital of France?" with a "yes".
 
Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Stetson:
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
Another one.

The Hitchhicker's Guide to the Galaxy is not a good book or series of books.

I've been told the teleplay is actually worth listening to and the best representation of the work. But the books themselves? meh.

I'm pretty sure that, even prior to seeing that particular episode of HGTTG, I, as a young teenager, had already come up with the idea of answering with a number a question that calls for words. It's just kind of one of those archetypal absurdist jokes, like answering "What is the capital of France?" with a "yes".
It works best on radio, which is the original medium.
 
Posted by Curiosity killed ... (# 11770) on :
 
HGTTG was written as a radio series - a rather erratic radio series as Douglas Adams was not brilliant at getting the scripts out on time. The books, TV series, films and other manifestations came later. As a radio series it was brilliant. There is a new version due out next year to celebrate the 40th anniversary with many of the original cast and the archive version is to be broadcast on Radio 4 Extra.

There was a live version of the radio show a few years back - I think to celebrate what would have been Douglas Adams' 60th birthday, but also to get as many of the original cast back together as they could - Peter Jones was not available. Dick Maggs, the producer did say he was trying to reunite the cast.
 
Posted by mr cheesy (# 3330) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Nick Tamen:
Which would be an issue with Tolstoy as well.

I think there are good and bad translations and I am absolutely sure that there are all kinds of angles which are not obvious when reading a book in a non-original language.

But I don't think it is the translation which makes War and Peace unreadable. Anna Karenina zips along, W&P stays in the doldrums for hundreds of pages.
 
Posted by la vie en rouge (# 10688) on :
 
I like Les Misérables but agree that the 100 page digression on the subject of the Paris sewers is not Hugo’s finest hour.

Madame Bovary on the other hand, is mind-numbing tosh. Nothing happens. For five-hundred very long pages.
 
Posted by Paul. (# 37) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Jane R:
(with the result that nothing much happens for most of book 7, Hermione Granger and the Camping Trip of Doom).

One of my favourite parts of the final book. Something about the consequences of evil being this mundane tedious existence rather than some big confrontation (that's over in time for tea and muffins) made it feel realer than the other books. Also I loved that the friendships were tested in a different way than we'd seen before.

I would never try to defend H2G2 to anyone who finds it tiresome. I think you either like that sort of thing or you don't. I also think that if, like me, you saw it/read it/heard it when you were 12 and loved it then, then you're probably always going to love it. I re-read the first four books last year and I was struck not by how funny it was but how clever it was. These days I'm rather hard on things that are billed as funny but get by on cleverness (The Good Place is my current goto example) but it's different when you're coming back to something and see depths that you missed as a young person.

Have never read Les Miserables and never will but shout out to ken (RIP) who liked the bit about the sewers.
 
Posted by Jane R (# 331) on :
 
I liked Hitchhiker's Guide when I was a teenager, but the later books in the series were not so good. Nowadays I don't find it so appealing, possibly because I have never been a 20-something man <tangent> and would therefore not have made the mistake of putting the hairdressers on Ark B. Because they do create something: happiness. Self-confidence. Mental health. Ask any old lady who still has her hair shampooed and set every week. Ask the Spartan warriors, who always insisted on going into battle looking their best because they didn't want to be seen dead on a bad hair day.<\tangent>
 
Posted by Stejjie (# 13941) on :
 
A few assorted ones of mine:

I had some sympathy for Theresa May after her coughing fit at the Tory Conference, despite my general antipathy towards her party's policies on pretty much everything. I thought having a go at her for that was a bit off, especially when there's plenty of other stuff to have a go at her for.

I think Graham Kendrick is a very good songwriter, writing material that's a lot more interesting than the caricature of him implies.

Superman > Batman.

Videogames are freakin' awesome! (Down with the kkids, that's me!*)

On which note: Sonic The Hedgehog > Mario

*There may be secret irony in this sentence
 
Posted by balaam (# 4543) on :
 
The best portrayal of James Bond on film is by Timothy Dalton in Licence to Kill. (Shame that such a good Bond didn't have such a good film.)
 
Posted by balaam (# 4543) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Stejjie:
I had some sympathy for Theresa May after her coughing fit at the Tory Conference, despite my general antipathy towards her party's policies on pretty much everything.

Outside of Brexit and the NHS I like a lot of May's policies. It's the lack of competence in implementing them I dislike.
 
Posted by betjemaniac (# 17618) on :
 
I agree with Sioni Sais on page 1.

I increasingly (but still secretly) prefer League to Union

Irish Whiskey is better than Scotch Whisky
 
Posted by Brenda Clough (# 18061) on :
 
I cannot excuse HP nor Hitchhiker.
However, old works are of their time. Hugo wrote in a time before photography, before Wikipedia, before even general literacy. When I say "Paris" now to you the images instantly rise in your mind's eye, a melange of the Eiffel Tower, the Louvre with the Seine running in front of it, glasses of Ricaud, and so on, the detritus of ten thousand movies and TV episodes and travelogues even if you've never been there.
Hugo had no such prepared audience. The story is told of the Confederate soldiers during the Civil War, reading Les Mis out loud to each other. They needed a detailed description of the Paris sewers, because they had never probably seen a sewer, never mind Paris. Hugo's description must have been as fantastic to them as Barsoom. (A friend of mind just went to the Paris sewer museum, btw. It has piped-in smells.)
 
Posted by mr cheesy (# 3330) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by betjemaniac:


I increasingly (but still secretly) prefer League to Union

Increasingly I'm thinking that neither are really worth the effort. I can't remember the last time I watched a whole game.
 
Posted by Jane R (# 331) on :
 
Neither version of rugby is as entertaining to watch as Australian football. That doesn't seem to have any rules at all (except, no edged weapons).
 
Posted by Higgs Bosun (# 16582) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Jane R:
Neither version of rugby is as entertaining to watch as Australian football. That doesn't seem to have any rules at all (except, no edged weapons).

I thought there were two rules:

1) It starts with a ball thrown up in the air

2) You then have a fight
 
Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by betjemaniac:
I agree with Sioni Sais on page 1.

I increasingly (but still secretly) prefer League to Union

Irish Whiskey is better than Scotch Whisky

Can't agree with you on the rugby code question, but Irish Whiskey is wonderful stuff. Pass the Blackbush!
 
Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on :
 
Brenda Clough said:
quote:
(A friend of mind just went to the Paris sewer museum, btw. It has piped-in smells.)
Proof, if proof were needed, that the French are as delightfully bonkers as we English. That might well be an unpopular opinion in England, of course...

IJ
 
Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Paul.:

I would never try to defend H2G2 to anyone who finds it tiresome. I think you either like that sort of thing or you don't.

I do like that sort of thing. I think the problem is that before I'd read H2G2, I'd read others in the same vein that were actually well written.
 
Posted by Dafyd (# 5549) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
I do like that sort of thing. I think the problem is that before I'd read H2G2, I'd read others in the same vein that were actually well written.

If you mean Pratchett, while I vastly prefer Pratchett, he is not in the same vein.
 
Posted by mousethief (# 953) on :
 
The books suck. The TV show sucks. The movie sucks. Only the radio play is the real deal. He started there, and had to pad it a great deal to make the books. The radio play was written serially, and he intentionally wrote himself cliffhangers he would have to write his way out of the next week. This creates a feel of breathlessness that all the other incarnations of the story line lack. Once he had the leisure to embroider, he fluffed it, IMNSHO.

Pity they had to cut the Pink Floyd joke out of the radio play though. [Frown] Stupid record company.
 
Posted by Dafyd (# 5549) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
Hugo had no such prepared audience. The story is told of the Confederate soldiers during the Civil War, reading Les Mis out loud to each other. They needed a detailed description of the Paris sewers, because they had never probably seen a sewer, never mind Paris. Hugo's description must have been as fantastic to them as Barsoom.

Dickens and Balzac have much shorter descriptions. Hugo's descriptions of the sewers aren't descriptions that go on a bit long for modern tastes. They are descriptions that have got completely out of hand because Hugo saw that looked at from a certain angle the sewers were even more fantastic than Barsoom.
See also Moby-Dick; or The Whale, which also you cannot read for the story. Both Hugo and Melville have been reading Sterne's Tristram Shandy although I think Melville is more in on the joke.
 
Posted by mousethief (# 953) on :
 
The Moby Dick plotline would make a fairly dull short story. Then again Moby Dick as it stands is worse than dull; it's numbing. By the end you're rooting for the whale, in part to kill them all and end the damned book.
 
Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Dafyd:

See also Moby-Dick; or The Whale, which also you cannot read for the story. Both Hugo and Melville have been reading Sterne's Tristram Shandy although I think Melville is more in on the joke.

This is what I mean about translations. The story* is secondary, at best, to the way it is told. And a translation will never be the real work.

*There will be exceptions, of course. But few.

quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
This creates a feel of breathlessness that all the other incarnations of the story line lack. Once he had the leisure to embroider, he fluffed it, IMNSHO.

OK, now I have to listen to the radio version. Some works transcend forms, for others, form is an integral part of the work. Perhaps they should have done the film as a Buck Rogers sort of serial played before other films.
quote:
Originally posted by Dafyd:
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
I do like that sort of thing. I think the problem is that before I'd read H2G2, I'd read others in the same vein that were actually well written.

If you mean Pratchett, while I vastly prefer Pratchett, he is not in the same vein.
He was one of the authors I though of, I think it is very much in the same vein: An irreverent take on a genre without being a parody. Also in the same vein, and this pre-dates Hitchhiker's, I love Bill the Galactic Hero.
 
Posted by Schroedinger's cat (# 64) on :
 
Hitchikers was great at the time, and the absurd style has inspired me. It was a real change from the often staid and serious SF that was around.

Irish Whiskey is a different thing from Scotch. They are not for comparison, but for drinking at different times, in different moods.

And, if you want some proper Kendrick music, look at his contemporary stuff, before he started doing worship music. OK, dated now, but really clever and innovative at the time.

I am not going to comment on his worship music, because I am not a fan of worship music. So my unpopular opinion is that 99% or worship music is crap, and the remaining stuff is meh.
 
Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
So my unpopular opinion is that 99% or worship music is crap, and the remaining stuff is meh.

That is a fact, not an opinion.
sing along!
"Jesus makes me happy that I don't need any talent"
 
Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on :
 
No, no - the best ones go like this:

Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus x14-20 times, you are so nice.....

But yes, Fact, rather than Opinion.

IJ
 
Posted by Huia (# 3473) on :
 
I followed the whole series of HHG on the radio and loved it. At the time I was working in a town that I hated and that was the one bright thing in my life.

Thanks for the heads up about the anniversary CK.

Huia
 
Posted by Stercus Tauri (# 16668) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:

I am not going to comment on his worship music, because I am not a fan of worship music. So my unpopular opinion is that 99% or worship music is crap, and the remaining stuff is meh.

A charitable opinion, in my view. Most of that 99% consists of vacuous verbiage and instantly forgettable music, notwithstanding the fact that this crapulous noise brings tears of emotion to my minister's eyes whenever we are exposed to the band singing Jesusjesusjesus x 20+. God gives us the great gift of music, and this is what we give back. It has killed congregational singing stone dead. Pshaugghhh!
 
Posted by Sipech (# 16870) on :
 
Gordon Brown was the best prime minister we've had in the last 35 years.
 
Posted by Paul. (# 37) on :
 
Agree with Dayfd that Pratchett was different. Better? Possibly. Obviously more prolific. At the end of the day the only metric I can judge either by is whether they bring joy or not, and both do, for me.

Never read Bill, the Galactic Hero but the Stainless Steel Rat books are good, but not as enjoyable for me as H2G2 or the better Discworld books. I read them avidly in my late teens, enjoyed them, only later discovered they were meant to be funny. I mean sure they weren't straight serious SciFi, but didn't actually laugh.

The problem with the "Worship music is crap" "fact" is that it suffers from the no true Scotsman fallacy.

Kendrick won brownie points with me a while back when he made a video arguing song writers need to get back to writing songs people can actually sing.
 
Posted by Rossweisse (# 2349) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Higgs Bosun:
quote:
Originally posted by Jane R:
Neither version of rugby is as entertaining to watch as Australian football. That doesn't seem to have any rules at all (except, no edged weapons).

I thought there were two rules:

1) It starts with a ball thrown up in the air

2) You then have a fight

I was told (by an authentic Strine) that the main rule was that no firearms were allowed which were larger than a .45.
 
Posted by Leorning Cniht (# 17564) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
]This is often said, and perhaps I have a cloth ear for literature, but contra my earlier statement, the later HP books are the only ones of significant length I've managed to get to the end of, so I'm not sure the problem is that great.

JK Rowling tells a good story. I find the school year framework rather tedious - half of each book pretty much writes itself before she's started - but children's literature is hardly a stranger to formulism, and Rowling is better than most.

Personally, I have been unable to read anything written by John "tedious" Steinbeck. Every time I try, I just fall asleep. Yes, I understand that walking down a dirt track in the Depression is boring, but I don't want to be bored reading about it.
 
Posted by anoesis (# 14189) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Leorning Cniht:
Personally, I have been unable to read anything written by John "tedious" Steinbeck. Every time I try, I just fall asleep. Yes, I understand that walking down a dirt track in the Depression is boring, but I don't want to be bored reading about it.

Oh, man, me too. And the thing is, I so badly wanted to like it, or at least 'get' it. So many people obviously find so much in it. I tried 'The Grapes of Wrath' first, was recommended another of his works as being much better, by an enthusiast, couldn't get into that one either, and the process has just pretty much continued. There's always a different one I should read if I really want to understand his voice. At this point, I'm thinking I'll just pass.
 
Posted by ExclamationMark (# 14715) on :
 
The word "folk" when attached to church. Twee

Why not "people"?
 
Posted by Golden Key (# 1468) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Dafyd:
quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
I'm certain the success of Les Miserables emboldened them. Another very nearly unreadable novel, btw.

It is readable. You just have to realise that you're not reading it for the plot. The plot is a piece of threadbare sentimental melodrama that would make Dickens blush. You're reading it for the digressions. Hugo was an unashamedly Romantic poet and his digressions are unashamedly Romantic prose-poems.
How many of these writers were paid by the word? If that money was what kept them fed, housed, and clothed, they might well have been purposely verbose--more so, if they had dependents.
 
Posted by balaam (# 4543) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Sipech:
Gordon Brown was the best prime minister we've had in the last 35 years.

Thatcher, Major, Blair, Cameron, May. No stiff competition.

When Britain is successful it is despite, not because of, the Prime Minister.
 
Posted by balaam (# 4543) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by ExclamationMark:
The word "folk" when attached to church. Twee

Why not "people"?

Depends of colloquial usage. Which side of the Atlantic you are on and which region of the UK you are in makes a difference.
 
Posted by Stejjie (# 13941) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by anoesis:
quote:
Originally posted by Leorning Cniht:
Personally, I have been unable to read anything written by John "tedious" Steinbeck. Every time I try, I just fall asleep. Yes, I understand that walking down a dirt track in the Depression is boring, but I don't want to be bored reading about it.

Oh, man, me too. And the thing is, I so badly wanted to like it, or at least 'get' it. So many people obviously find so much in it. I tried 'The Grapes of Wrath' first, was recommended another of his works as being much better, by an enthusiast, couldn't get into that one either, and the process has just pretty much continued. There's always a different one I should read if I really want to understand his voice. At this point, I'm thinking I'll just pass.
I'm glad it's not just me... I've ploughed through The Grapes Of Wrath, but I just can't muster up the willpower to make it to the end.
 
Posted by Baptist Trainfan (# 15128) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by ExclamationMark:
The word "folk" when attached to church. Twee

Why not "people"?

I use both - simply for variety. But not "guys".

[ 17. October 2017, 07:23: Message edited by: Baptist Trainfan ]
 
Posted by balaam (# 4543) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:
quote:
Originally posted by ExclamationMark:
The word "folk" when attached to church. Twee

Why not "people"?

I use both - simply for variety. But not "guys".
"Guys" refers to boys or men, never to mixed sex or gender, nor to all female groups.
 
Posted by mr cheesy (# 3330) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by balaam:
"Guys" refers to boys or men, never to mixed sex or gender, nor to all female groups.

We have had this discussion with our teenager, and it seems that "guys" and "dudes" have lost any sense of referring only to boys and men. I'm not sure how widely this applies, but it seems that the former fairly rigid rule has broken down.
 
Posted by balaam (# 4543) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by mr cheesy:
quote:
Originally posted by balaam:
"Guys" refers to boys or men, never to mixed sex or gender, nor to all female groups.

We have had this discussion with our teenager, and it seems that "guys" and "dudes" have lost any sense of referring only to boys and men. I'm not sure how widely this applies, but it seems that the former fairly rigid rule has broken down.
Has he seen the musical "Guys and Guys?"
 
Posted by mr cheesy (# 3330) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by balaam:
Has he seen the musical "Guys and Guys?"

Showing your age there, old bean.

The times are moving on. The terms that our generation used are changing in the hands of the next.

[ 17. October 2017, 08:33: Message edited by: mr cheesy ]
 
Posted by betjemaniac (# 17618) on :
 
Yes, Guys has become mixed sex. It just has. I think it's the influence of US and Australian tv programmes in the UK, don't know how it happened elsewhere.

The ship of guys = men/boys has long sailed either way.
 
Posted by Paul. (# 37) on :
 
Anyone else listen to the latest The Allusionist podcast? I was surprised to find out that 'guy' is actually an eponym - it comes from Guy Fawkes!
 
Posted by mr cheesy (# 3330) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Paul.:
Anyone else listen to the latest The Allusionist podcast? I was surprised to find out that 'guy' is actually an eponym - it comes from Guy Fawkes!

Nope, how interesting.

And here's another unpopular opinion (at least in Britain): 99% of the best radio from around the world comes from outside of the BBC. The BBC is not the source of the best spoken word radio.
 
Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by balaam:
quote:
Originally posted by Sipech:
Gordon Brown was the best prime minister we've had in the last 35 years.

Thatcher, Major, Blair, Cameron, May. No stiff competition.

When Britain is successful it is despite, not because of, the Prime Minister.

With better luck we could have had Denis Healey instead of Thatcher, then John Smith, who was missed and mourned by the whole House.
 
Posted by Amorya (# 2652) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by betjemaniac:
Yes, Guys has become mixed sex. It just has.

No.

It's as mixed sex as saying "And on earth peace to all men". That is, the speaker may not be intending to exclude women, and by whatever ruleset it may be technically correct, but it does serve to make women feel excluded.
 
Posted by betjemaniac (# 17618) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by mr cheesy:
quote:
Originally posted by Paul.:
Anyone else listen to the latest The Allusionist podcast? I was surprised to find out that 'guy' is actually an eponym - it comes from Guy Fawkes!

Nope, how interesting.

And here's another unpopular opinion (at least in Britain): 99% of the best radio from around the world comes from outside of the BBC. The BBC is not the source of the best spoken word radio.

although, as a confirmed Radio 4 Extra addict, I can confirm that thanks to hours on end of eg the Moth Radio Hour, a lot of the best spoken word radio is increasingly *on* the BBC. Or, at least, more than it used to be.

For which development, much thanks.
 
Posted by betjemaniac (# 17618) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Amorya:
quote:
Originally posted by betjemaniac:
Yes, Guys has become mixed sex. It just has.

No.

It's as mixed sex as saying "And on earth peace to all men". That is, the speaker may not be intending to exclude women, and by whatever ruleset it may be technically correct, but it does serve to make women feel excluded.

Except that round my way it's more often used *by* women to mean both sexes. I mean, I don't even say the word myself (at all, let alone in mixed company), but I can whistle up a slack handful of 20 and early 30 something girls who do.

It has been claimed by millennials of both genders to do something other than what you say it does.

Doesn't make it better/right/or whatever, but it's undeniable that it has happened.
 
Posted by betjemaniac (# 17618) on :
 
I feel I should now add my apparently unpopular opinion that language evolves.
 
Posted by mr cheesy (# 3330) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by betjemaniac:
Except that round my way it's more often used *by* women to mean both sexes. I mean, I don't even say the word myself (at all, let alone in mixed company), but I can whistle up a slack handful of 20 and early 30 something girls who do.

It has been claimed by millennials of both genders to do something other than what you say it does.

Doesn't make it better/right/or whatever, but it's undeniable that it has happened.

This. It is young females that seem to use the term as in "hi guuuys!". Young males of the same age mostly just seem to grunt in response.
 
Posted by Nick Tamen (# 15164) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by mr cheesy:
quote:
Originally posted by betjemaniac:
Except that round my way it's more often used *by* women to mean both sexes. I mean, I don't even say the word myself (at all, let alone in mixed company), but I can whistle up a slack handful of 20 and early 30 something girls who do.

It has been claimed by millennials of both genders to do something other than what you say it does.

Doesn't make it better/right/or whatever, but it's undeniable that it has happened.

This. It is young females that seem to use the term as in "hi guuuys!". Young males of the same age mostly just seem to grunt in response.
This seems to be the main way I hear it used to mean both sexes. No one would refer to one female as a “guy,” but “guys” may be used for a mixed group. More specifically, “guys” or “you guys” becomes a second person plural.

Fortunately, in these parts we have “y’all” to mitigate that trend.
 
Posted by SvitlanaV2 (# 16967) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by ExclamationMark:
The word "folk" when attached to church. Twee

Why not "people"?

'Church folk' is quicker to say than 'church people'. But 'people who go to church' is surely more common than 'folk who go to church'.

I also think that 'church folk' brings to mind a certain demographic. You wouldn't use it to refer to worshippers at HTB....

Also on a churchy theme, I think it's unpopular here to state that the future of Christianity in Britain is bleak.

quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
quote:
Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
So my unpopular opinion is that 99% or worship music is crap, and the remaining stuff is meh.

That is a fact, not an opinion.
sing along!
"Jesus makes me happy that I don't need any talent"

If Jesus only wanted 'talented' people then the Christian religion would barely exist. To a large extent it's a religion for losers. (Is that an unpopular opinion?)
 
Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Amorya:
quote:
Originally posted by betjemaniac:
Yes, Guys has become mixed sex. It just has.

No.

It's as mixed sex as saying "And on earth peace to all men". That is, the speaker may not be intending to exclude women, and by whatever ruleset it may be technically correct, but it does serve to make women feel excluded.

Yeah, I'm going to say this might well be a generational thing.
It is massively common among the youngs to use guys and dude regardless of gender. Brits, Yanks and Aussies, anyway.
 
Posted by Leorning Cniht (# 17564) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:

It is massively common among the youngs to use guys and dude regardless of gender. Brits, Yanks and Aussies, anyway.

And it's entirely context-dependent. I can point you at any number of young women who will address their friends (of whatever combination of sexes) as "guys", and then in the next sentence use "guys" to mean male people.
 
Posted by Stetson (# 9597) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
quote:
Originally posted by Amorya:
quote:
Originally posted by betjemaniac:
Yes, Guys has become mixed sex. It just has.

No.

It's as mixed sex as saying "And on earth peace to all men". That is, the speaker may not be intending to exclude women, and by whatever ruleset it may be technically correct, but it does serve to make women feel excluded.

Yeah, I'm going to say this might well be a generational thing.

"Hey you guuuuys...!

I think the show started using that phrase as their intro in '72.
 
Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Stetson:
"Hey you guuuuys...!

I think the show started using that phrase as their intro in '72.

That is the mixed sex variation. It would be interesting to see female to female use of guys in that era.
 
Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Leorning Cniht:
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:

It is massively common among the youngs to use guys and dude regardless of gender. Brits, Yanks and Aussies, anyway.

And it's entirely context-dependent. I can point you at any number of young women who will address their friends (of whatever combination of sexes) as "guys", and then in the next sentence use "guys" to mean male people.
Same with dude. Dude in specific address is genderless, dude in third party is male.
 
Posted by Baptist Trainfan (# 15128) on :
 
My wife goes to an Aquafit exercise class twice a week. All the participants are 60+ women. There are three different 30-something instructors (not on the same day!), all are women.

All of them shout, "Come on, guys!" to their protegees.
 
Posted by LutheranChik (# 9826) on :
 
Stepson #2 regularly addresses us as "Dude" when he's excited. ("Dude, did you see that touchdown?")
 
Posted by Albertus (# 13356) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by ExclamationMark:
The word "folk" when attached to church. Twee


Yes. Goes with damp handshake, weak coffee in earthenware mug,wooden cross on leather thong round neck, over-persistent grin. Yuk. (And probably 'the folk in our church family...')
 
Posted by Baptist Trainfan (# 15128) on :
 
No - "the folks", if you please. [Devil]
 
Posted by Schroedinger's cat (# 64) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Albertus:
quote:
Originally posted by ExclamationMark:
The word "folk" when attached to church. Twee


Yes. Goes with damp handshake, weak coffee in earthenware mug,wooden cross on leather thong round neck, over-persistent grin. Yuk. (And probably 'the folk in our church family...')
Actually, when is the word "folk" an improvement to anything? Folk religion means superstition, folk music means twee jigs.
 
Posted by Albertus (# 13356) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:
No - "the folks", if you please. [Devil]

Good point. Or even 'bunch of folk' [Projectile]
 
Posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider (# 76) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
folk music means twee jigs.

No it fucking doesn't. Fairport, Steeleye, Bob Dylan, Al Stewart "twee jigs"? Wash your mouth out.

[ 18. October 2017, 07:14: Message edited by: Karl: Liberal Backslider ]
 
Posted by mr cheesy (# 3330) on :
 
Seems I have the unpopular opinion that working songs and folk music are gritty and a true expression of British identity.
 
Posted by Curiosity killed ... (# 11770) on :
 
You've not been to any good folk gigs recently then. Oysterband, authors of It's My Country Too play the folk circuit, as does Grace Petrie, and nothing she performs is a twee jig. Jake Bugg took his new album to Cambridge, the Levellers played Folk by the Oak. Folk has spawned Lau, False Lights and a whole lot more that are definitely not twee (folk songs with electric guitars and reverb). It's where protest songs are sung and don't stand out.

Crossposted with the world

[ 18. October 2017, 07:24: Message edited by: Curiosity killed ... ]
 
Posted by betjemaniac (# 17618) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
quote:
Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
folk music means twee jigs.

No it fucking doesn't. Fairport, Steeleye, Bob Dylan, Al Stewart "twee jigs"? Wash your mouth out.
all of those, plus if you want the ones working now (I love Fairport but borderline hate current Fairport) then add in Bellowhead, Show of Hands, Balshazzar's Feast, Seth Lakeman, the Young'uns, the Unthanks, Leveret... I could go on.

Twee jigs, not likely.

Unpopular opinion today:

English folk culture is as extant and valid as Scottish/Irish/Welsh, and deserving of greater appreciation by the English (as a start).
 
Posted by betjemaniac (# 17618) on :
 
Dave Swarbrick subverts twee jigs - worth watching to the end if only for the increasing disbelief of the rest of Fairport as they valiantly struggle to keep up with him.
 
Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
... Folk religion means superstition, folk music means twee jigs.

"All music is folk music. Has a horse ever written a song?"

I think that is from Louis Armstrong.
 
Posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider (# 76) on :
 
Have we ever had a dogpile in Heaven before?
 
Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Albertus:
quote:
Originally posted by ExclamationMark:
The word "folk" when attached to church. Twee


Yes. Goes with damp handshake, weak coffee in earthenware mug,wooden cross on leather thong round neck, over-persistent grin. Yuk. (And probably 'the folk in our church family...')
You've omitted the one-arm hug.
 
Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on :
 
The answer to which, of course, is 'Nay'.....

I'll get me coat.

IJ
 
Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on :
 
Curses! Cross-posted.....

That answer was to the question by Louis Armstrong.

But you guessed that, so please don't nag me about it.

IJ
 
Posted by Kitten (# 1179) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
quote:
Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
folk music means twee jigs.

No it fucking doesn't. Fairport, Steeleye, Bob Dylan, Al Stewart "twee jigs"? Wash your mouth out.
[Overused]
 
Posted by LutheranChik (# 9826) on :
 
" Pumpkin spice" anything that is not an actial pumpkin dessert -- Just. No.
 
Posted by Curiosity killed ... (# 11770) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by betjemaniac:... plus if you want the ones working now, then add in Bellowhead, Show of Hands, Balshazzar's Feast, Seth Lakeman, the Young'uns, the Unthanks, Leveret... I could go on.

Twee jigs, not likely.

Unpopular opinion today:

English folk culture is as extant and valid as Scottish/Irish/Welsh, and deserving of greater appreciation by the English (as a start). [/QB]

Sadly Bellowhead is no more, but yes to the rest - having seen The Unthanks in the summer, Show of Hands at Folk by the Oak, the Young'uns last Thursday and Leveret on Saturday (at Hartlepool Folk Festival because I couldn't go tonight). I'd add Faustus to that list.
 
Posted by Schroedinger's cat (# 64) on :
 
Well - I have managed one popular unpopoular opinion, and one definitively unpopular one.

But then, I know that most people would consider the music I like (and produce - see my sig) to be crap. So fairs fair.

Incidentally, I have seen Bellowhead, Fairport, the Unthanks, Grace Petrie and others.
 
Posted by Albertus (# 13356) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by LutheranChik:
" Pumpkin spice" anything that is not an actial pumpkin dessert -- Just. No.

I wasn't at all surprised that that Spice Girl never made the final line-up.
 
Posted by Eirenist (# 13343) on :
 
A bit late, but:
The Earthsea books are a better account of the training of a wizard than Harry Potter;
and:
The Dark Materials Trilogy is overlong, baggy and incoherent - one might say self-indulgent.
I'm not saying that because he's grinding his anti-religious axe throughout.
 
Posted by Eirenist (# 13343) on :
 
P.S. By 'he' I mean, of course, Philip Pullman.
 
Posted by Schroedinger's cat (# 64) on :
 
Pullman I find tolerable, but not as good as his publicity. A mediocre writer at best.

Augustines "City of God" is a pile of unsupportable drivel. It should have been lost in the midsts of time.
 
Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on :
 
Away from literature, I have stated elsewhere that the 'standard' steam engines designed by R. A. Riddles for British Railways between 1951-1960 are some of the best-looking ever built.

Opinions may vary, but here is one of my favourite types:

https://i.pinimg.com/736x/53/4d/06/534d06eeb0b1593594a8bfe8cfd95384--steam-locomotive-rail.jpg

Devotees of the former Great Western Railway etc. will perhaps disagree....

[Two face]

IJ
 
Posted by balaam (# 4543) on :
 
I'm still waiting for the final book in the His Dark Materials trilogy. I enjoyed the first two, but The Amber Spyglass was so bad it cannot be part of the trilogy, can it?
 
Posted by Baptist Trainfan (# 15128) on :
 
@BF: I absolutely agree with you on the 4MT tank loco, one of my favourite locos. Not so sure about the class 4 4-6-0, the Clans or the larger Moguls. The little 2-6-0 is dinky though, and I like the Britannias and the Duke.

[ 19. October 2017, 15:47: Message edited by: Baptist Trainfan ]
 
Posted by Jane R (# 331) on :
 
Eirenist:
quote:
The Earthsea books are a better account of the training of a wizard than Harry Potter...
More concise, anyway. The only part of the Earthsea trilogy that can legitimately be compared to Harry Potter is the first part of A Wizard of Earthsea.

I've always thought that Diana Wynne Jones and Jill Murphy had far more reason to feel they'd been plagiarised than Ursula Le Guin, though DWJ at least was rather more gracious about it.
 
Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on :
 
@BT - but wot about the 9Fs? Magnificent beasties if ever there were, no?

No?

[Paranoid]

Oh, all right - back to literature. I, too, find the school ambience of Harry Potter rather off-putting.

IJ
 
Posted by betjemaniac (# 17618) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:
@BF: I absolutely agree with you on the 4MT tank loco, one of my favourite locos. Not so sure about the class 4 4-6-0, the Clans or the larger Moguls. The little 2-6-0 is dinky though, and I like the Britannias and the Duke.

My unpopular opinion is that I like Clans, have in the past been a member of the Hengist scheme, and wish them every success.

I'm also part of the group building the new standard class 2 tank. But then, that's a Swindon product, with a prairie boiler....the GWR gets everywhere....

[ 19. October 2017, 16:54: Message edited by: betjemaniac ]
 
Posted by betjemaniac (# 17618) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Bishops Finger:

Devotees of the former Great Western Railway

AKA the one true faith.
 
Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on :
 
Is Outrage!

[Eek!]

IJ
 
Posted by Baptist Trainfan (# 15128) on :
 
Well, at least is Exclusivist!
 
Posted by betjemaniac (# 17618) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:
Well, at least is Exclusivist!

that'll be the loading gauge...
 
Posted by balaam (# 4543) on :
 
Twee folk dance music
 
Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on :
 
....preceded by an advert for a laxative.... [Eek!]

@betjemaniac - do you perhaps mean the GWR's original track gauge of 7 feet and one-quarter-of-an-inch?

IJ
 
Posted by Moo (# 107) on :
 
This is the class of locomotive that Virginians pride themselves on.

Moo
 
Posted by betjemaniac (# 17618) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Bishops Finger:
....preceded by an advert for a laxative.... [Eek!]

@betjemaniac - do you perhaps mean the GWR's original track gauge of 7 feet and one-quarter-of-an-inch?

IJ

Sort of - it meant that even once they'd gone to standard gauge the GWR had a bit more space to play with than the rest of the companies, which lead to some of their sizings being limiting elsewhere on the network. When they did the locomotive exchanges there were some pretty severe route restrictions for the ex-GWR types that were on the LM, E, and NE regions.

These days, it affects GW locomotives even on what was the GWR since so many station platforms. etc, have been rebuilt. When King Edward II was restored to main line condition they had to cut down the chinney, safety valve bonnet and cab roof to accommodate the new signal gantries, etc, and that was on a class that was heavy route restricted even when it was in service!

[ 20. October 2017, 07:28: Message edited by: betjemaniac ]
 
Posted by Baptist Trainfan (# 15128) on :
 
Not just the GW of course. For instance the A1 Pacifics had to be trimmed once they strayed beyond the Great Northern. Equally, when the Glasgow "Blue trains" started blowing up in the 1960s and had to be returned to their makers, they had to travel on some very convoluted routes to avoid gauge restrictions. Then there were the very limited clearances on he Hastings line and the Burry Port and Gwendraeth Valley, both of which necessitated special rolling stock ...

However we do seem to be straying slightly off-topic ....

[ 20. October 2017, 09:19: Message edited by: Baptist Trainfan ]
 
Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 
Here's another on the tracks but I'm sure unpopular.

Dr Beeching's report* on the future of British Railways was far-sighted and brilliant.

*It led to the closure of hundred of stations, thousands of miles of railway and the removal of many freight service.

(Could be worth a thread.)
 
Posted by betjemaniac (# 17618) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
Here's another on the tracks but I'm sure unpopular.

Dr Beeching's report* on the future of British Railways was far-sighted and brilliant.


I'll happily join you in that thread, but I agree *within the brief he was given.*

Beeching didn't set the objectives for his report, but worked to objectives that were set for him. The report is a model of clarity, logic, and clear thinking against those objectives.

It's also (along with the Polaris programme) about the last example of the British government giving time, thought and money to long term strategic planning. The last hurrah of the can-do attitude of the 1950s where things can be reshaped from first principles rather than just accepting things as they are.

There's nothing wrong with the Beeching report. The problem is with the Ministry of Transport and the then Minister of Transport who commissioned it (Ernest Marples, Tory with a financial interest in road building) and set the objectives. To be scrupulously fair though, I'd heap coals also on Harold Wilson and Barbara Castle for standing on a manifesto of reversing/not implementing Beeching then, er, not when they'd won the election.

[ 20. October 2017, 10:21: Message edited by: betjemaniac ]
 
Posted by Baptist Trainfan (# 15128) on :
 
Re. Beeching, it's worth saying that many closures took place before his Report came out (there were quite a few even in the 1930s!); equally that some routes closed by Castle et.al. were ones he felt should have remained open (e.g. Oxford-Cambridge). Also the rail industry was hugely old-fashioned and expensive to run, and its capacity to compete commercially on freight prices was for many years hampered by Government.

The big problem with Beeching IMO - and it was part of his given remit - was to examine costs on a route by route basis, rather than as a network; it wasn't recognised how one "unprofitable" branch line helped to maintain the "profitability" of a main line. When the former closed, the contributory traffic to the latter was lost. Also - and this was something Castle did recognise slbeit belatedly - was the wider social, economic and even environmental cost of rail closures.
 
Posted by mr cheesy (# 3330) on :
 
My unpopular opinion is that you people need to get a new thread to talk about your mutual steam engine infatuation.
 
Posted by Nick Tamen (# 15164) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by LutheranChik:
" Pumpkin spice" anything that is not an actial pumpkin dessert -- Just. No.

I’d make no exception for things that are actual pumpkin desserts. Pumpkin is horrible.
 
Posted by mr cheesy (# 3330) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Nick Tamen:
I’d make no exception for things that are actual pumpkin desserts. Pumpkin is horrible.

Wrong. Pumpkin is the fruit of the gods. If you think it is horrible, you've not cooked it right.
 
Posted by Trudy Scrumptious (# 5647) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by mr cheesy:
My unpopular opinion is that you people need to get a new thread to talk about your mutual steam engine infatuation.

I was going to say that this thread has not gone so much off the rails as rather decisively onto them. That's not an official Hostly warning or anything, but it probably is true that if the course of discussion unpopular opinions, a small handful of people discover a shared passion for something, there may be grounds there for a separate thread or possibly even just an exchange of private messages.
 
Posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider (# 76) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by mr cheesy:
quote:
Originally posted by Nick Tamen:
I’d make no exception for things that are actual pumpkin desserts. Pumpkin is horrible.

Wrong. Pumpkin is the fruit of the gods. If you think it is horrible, you've not cooked it right.
I know this joke has been done recently, but which gods? Cthulhu? Orcus? Hades? Hel? Melkor?
 
Posted by mr cheesy (# 3330) on :
 
There are so many things one can do with pumpkin - cakes, pies, curries, flans, biscuits etc - that it is hard to know what there is to dislike. It doesn't have a strong taste and enhances the flavour of other ingredients.

Easily my favourite veg. I could eat it at every meal.
 
Posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider (# 76) on :
 
TBF, the main problem I have with it is that you get so much from one pumpkin you only really bought to carve a face into but which your frugal soul cannot bear to just waste.

Mrs T is getting a range of gourd/squashlike items this year for carving that have the advantage of us wanting to eat them. She reckons you can do a pretty good skull in a butternut squash. I saw some very disturbing heads cut out of swedes that I'm eager to attempt to reproduce.
 
Posted by mr cheesy (# 3330) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
TBF, the main problem I have with it is that you get so much from one pumpkin you only really bought to carve a face into but which your frugal soul cannot bear to just waste.

Pumpkins sold in shops at Halloween aren't usually much good for eating.

But abundance is another great thing about pumpkins - can easily get many meals out of a fruit costing a few pounds.

quote:
Mrs T is getting a range of gourd/squashlike items this year for carving that have the advantage of us wanting to eat them. She reckons you can do a pretty good skull in a butternut squash. I saw some very disturbing heads cut out of swedes that I'm eager to attempt to reproduce.
I've seen those too. I'm not sure why they changed from those to pumpkins - they've very scary.
 
Posted by L'organist (# 17338) on :
 
posted by Nick Tamen
quote:
I’d make no exception for things that are actual pumpkin desserts. Pumpkin is horrible.
Agree - the vilest things in creation.

Maybe love of the beastly vegetables is a pond thing?
 
Posted by mr cheesy (# 3330) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:

Maybe love of the beastly vegetables is a pond thing?

Wouldn't have thought so - everyone I know who has an allotment here in Wales grows and eats pumpkins.
 
Posted by SvitlanaV2 (# 16967) on :
 
Halloween - there's something I'm ambivalent about. I don't see the point in it, except as a way for retailers to make more money.

But I have fond memories of my grandmother's ghost-free pumpkin soup.
 
Posted by Baptist Trainfan (# 15128) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by mr cheesy:
My unpopular opinion is that you people need to get a new thread to talk about your mutual steam engine infatuation.

You are right!
 
Posted by Sipech (# 16870) on :
 
Lime-based foodstuffs taste better than their lemon-based equivalents.
 
Posted by Baptist Trainfan (# 15128) on :
 
My wife would definitely agree!
 
Posted by balaam (# 4543) on :
 
The Verve and Richard Ashcroft - mediocre at best.

Their success is down to everything else that was widely broadcast in the late 1990s being terrible.
 
Posted by balaam (# 4543) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Sipech:
Lime-based foodstuffs taste better than their lemon-based equivalents.

I prefer lemon. Except where coconut is concerned.

Lime and coconut, nectar of the gods.
 
Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on :
 
I HATE tomatoes! Why does virtually every bloody sandwich-maker include this Vegetable (or Fruit) of Satan?

Obvious answer - hatred of tomatoes is An Unpopular Opinion... [Roll Eyes]

IJ
 
Posted by Pigwidgeon (# 10192) on :
 
I HATE onions! Why does virtually every bloody sandwich-or-salad-maker include this Vegetable of Satan?

(And if you remove them, they've already left their odious taste behind on everything they touch.)
 
Posted by Jane R (# 331) on :
 
I hate citric acid. WHY is it added to any and every processed food?! There are other acidity regulators, you know.
 
Posted by Schroedinger's cat (# 64) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by balaam:
The Verve and Richard Ashcroft - mediocre at best.

Their success is down to everything else that was widely broadcast in the late 1990s being terrible.

Ashcroft was not very good, his solo material was uninspiring. But with the band, I think they were very good, at least sometimes.

A lot broadcast at the same time was rubbish though.
 
Posted by Sipech (# 16870) on :
 
The Verve were probably the second band (to Radiohead) in the best era for indie music. N.b. I was in my mid-late teens then.
 
Posted by Nick Tamen (# 15164) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:
posted by Nick Tamen
quote:
I’d make no exception for things that are actual pumpkin desserts. Pumpkin is horrible.
Agree - the vilest things in creation.

Maybe love of the beastly vegetables is a pond thing?

Except I’m on the other side of the pond from you.

quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
quote:
Originally posted by mr cheesy:
quote:
Originally posted by Nick Tamen:
I’d make no exception for things that are actual pumpkin desserts. Pumpkin is horrible.

Wrong. Pumpkin is the fruit of the gods. If you think it is horrible, you've not cooked it right.
I know this joke has been done recently, but which gods? Cthulhu? Orcus? Hades? Hel? Melkor?
I'd go with Loki, the trickster. "Here, taste this. It’s delicious, you'll see."

quote:
Originally posted by mr cheesy:
There are so many things one can do with pumpkin - cakes, pies, curries, flans, biscuits etc - that it is hard to know what there is to dislike.

Every single one of them. Tried them all—well, except for flan, because flan on its own is gross, never mind the added pumpkin—hated them all. Pumpkin has a horrible, horrible flavor, and there’s just no way to redeem it.

Pumpkin pie is the worst, though. Why anyone thinks pumpkin makes even a passable dessert is just beyond me. And I’ve lost count of the times someone has said "oh, this one is different. You'll like this."

They’ve always been wrong.
 
Posted by Kittyville (# 16106) on :
 
Pumpkin seems to be ubiquitous in Australia when in season. I will never understand why - it's disgusting.

My unpopular opinion (for an Australian resident) is that bananas would be the last fruit I'd choose to eat. If survival depended upon it, sure. Otherwise, no, thanks.

[ 21. October 2017, 08:30: Message edited by: Kittyville ]
 
Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :
 
Eggs are for baking, not general consumption and fish are for aquariums, not for consumption at all.
 
Posted by Sipech (# 16870) on :
 
Not all instant coffee is an abomination.

All coffee served by major chains (e.g. Starbucks, Costa, Nero) is an abomination.
 
Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on :
 
Eggs (except in pancakes) are of Satan.

[Projectile]

McDonalds food is sometimes edible.

IJ
 
Posted by Gee D (# 13815) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Sipech:

All coffee served by major chains (e.g. Starbucks, Costa, Nero) is an abomination.

Not an unpopular opinion here - while Costa and Nero have not darkened these shores, Starbucks was a notable failure in its attempt to muscle out the traditional coffee shops that abound and flourish. Starting with a Greek and Italian immigrants post-WW II, the small and traditional shops spread, and even recent arrivals from East Asia have rapidly picked up the habit of calling in for a quick coffee either to drink there or take away to work.
 
Posted by Roman Cataholic (# 18736) on :
 
I think Trump is a rather good president and all the negativity in the media is ignoring his true genius
 
Posted by Mr Clingford (# 7961) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Roman Cataholic:
I think Trump is a rather good president and all the negativity in the media is ignoring his true genius

Remind me, what is his true genius?
 
Posted by Boogie (# 13538) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Roman Cataholic:
I think Trump is a rather good president and all the negativity in the media is ignoring his true genius

[Killing me]

You can take irony too far you know!
 
Posted by MaryLouise (# 18697) on :
 
Akin to Nero's true genius in fiddling while Rome burned? [Two face]
 
Posted by Pigwidgeon (# 10192) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by MaryLouise:
Akin to Nero's true genius in fiddling while Rome burned? [Two face]

My music teacher in high school explained that Nero was more apt to have played the lute -- so he would have looted while Rome burned.

I'll get my toga...
 
Posted by ExclamationMark (# 14715) on :
 
I don't like Doctor Who. I think Quakers are misplaced in a Christians Together Group
 
Posted by balaam (# 4543) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by ExclamationMark:
I don't like Doctor Who.

Get thee behind me, Satan.
 
Posted by ExclamationMark (# 14715) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by balaam:
quote:
Originally posted by ExclamationMark:
I don't like Doctor Who.

Get thee behind me, Satan.
No!
 
Posted by Schroedinger's cat (# 64) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by ExclamationMark:
I don't like Doctor Who.

It is brave of you to admit this personality flaw.

quote:
Originally posted by ExclamationMark:
I think Quakers are misplaced in a Christians Together Group

Why? Because Quakerism is as Christian as any other church.

Now we might not want to listen to others telling us what we should believe, but that is another matter.
 
Posted by Jengie jon (# 273) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by ExclamationMark:
I don't like Doctor Who.

Neither do I. I put it down to having first watched it with a temperature over 100°f due to Chicken Pox (undiagnosed, visiting friends). I have never managed to watch a whole programme since. I suspect the hallucinations from the first time are at the edge of my consciousness.

Jengie
 
Posted by balaam (# 4543) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by ExclamationMark:
quote:
Originally posted by balaam:
quote:
Originally posted by ExclamationMark:
I don't like Doctor Who.

Get thee behind me, Satan.
No!
Damn! My exorcism skills are waning.
 
Posted by ExclamationMark (# 14715) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
quote:
Originally posted by ExclamationMark:
I don't like Doctor Who.

It is brave of you to admit this personality flaw.

quote:
Originally posted by ExclamationMark:
I think Quakers are misplaced in a Christians Together Group

Why? Because Quakerism is as Christian as any other church.

Now we might not want to listen to others telling us what we should believe, but that is another matter.

I don't find them as "Christian" as any other church. Why?
- non Trinitarian (not accepting the historic creeds common to Christian Churches)
- plural view of Salvation. Christ for them is not the only way (not accepting the historical praxis and tradition common to Christian Churches)

Nice people and all that. It's possible of course that I may though have been unfortunate in my experiences with Quakers, albeit across in the UK in various different settings.
 
Posted by mr cheesy (# 3330) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by ExclamationMark:
I don't find them as "Christian" as any other church. Why?
- non Trinitarian (not accepting the historic creeds common to Christian Churches)
- plural view of Salvation. Christ for them is not the only way (not accepting the historical praxis and tradition common to Christian Churches)

Nice people and all that. It's possible of course that I may though have been unfortunate in my experiences with Quakers, albeit across in the UK in various different settings.

The problem is that as the Quakers as an organisation have rejected creeds, individuals can believe almost anything. Including being non-theists.

So I don't think they are really "as Christian" as other church, although they may have individuals within the organisation who are - and there may be others in other churches who are not.

I don't really understand why Quakers are treated differently to Unitarians or Mormons with regard to Christians Together in the UK.

But then I have an unpopular opinion - Christians Together is a pointless waste of time and that I'd rather campaign with Quakers (and others) on issues of common interest and that multi-faith discussions are more important.
 
Posted by betjemaniac (# 17618) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by mr cheesy:


But then I have an unpopular opinion - Christians Together is a pointless waste of time and that I'd rather campaign with Quakers (and others) on issues of common interest and that multi-faith discussions are more important.

[Overused]
 
Posted by betjemaniac (# 17618) on :
 
Alec Douglas Home ran a better election campaign than he's still given credit for.

Ted Heath was a good (if not actually visionary) PM let down by the country not being grown up enough for him and spoiling it all with squabbling.

Trade Unions are entirely necessary good and to be supported, but British Trade Unions continually let the side down by being as bad as British bosses just in a different way.
 
Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by mr cheesy:

But then I have an unpopular opinion - Christians Together is a pointless waste of time

I just read a bit of their website and that is some scary shit.
Not even joking.
 
Posted by SvitlanaV2 (# 16967) on :
 
Judging from the website, you can see why the Quakers would fit in. Their image matches with CT's main spheres of interest.

The problem with many newer (and more dynamic) churches which might see themselves as more orthodox is that their image is less likely to be a good fit.

I do think the historical churches benefit from being in CT, but its appeal to other groups is limited, IMO.

[ 24. October 2017, 12:54: Message edited by: SvitlanaV2 ]
 
Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by SvitlanaV2:
Judging from the website, you can see why the Quakers would fit in. Their image matches with CT's main spheres of interest.

OK, I was not talking about spheres of interest, but content style. Looking on my mobile I came across christianstogether.org , which was set off immediate alarm bells. Looking on the laptop, I see also christianstogether.net and the only thing immediately worrying is their web design. And then christianstogether.org.uk which gives me a better idea of what you are talking about.
But that first site does lead to another unpopular opinion:
The difference between accepted religion and bat-shit crazy cult is sometimes as much who won as it is the sanity of stated beliefs.
 
Posted by Schroedinger's cat (# 64) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by ExclamationMark:
I don't find them as "Christian" as any other church. Why?
- non Trinitarian (not accepting the historic creeds common to Christian Churches)
- plural view of Salvation. Christ for them is not the only way (not accepting the historical praxis and tradition common to Christian Churches)

So all the Anglicans, Baptists, Methodists all accept the creeds, and in the same way? And all believe that Jesus is the only way? Rather than, for example, coming to church and doing stuff.

My experience is that not all who attend Quaker meetings would describe themselves as Christian. But then, I am not sure all of those attending any other church would or should. Maybe we are just a bit more honest? (I am not being arrogant or dismissive, just that the nature of the meetings means that people can be honest in ways that it is hard to be in other churches).

And at the heart of Quakerism is a clear expression of Christianity. We have, in our meetings, copies of Quaker faith and practice, as well as copies of the Bible.
 
Posted by SvitlanaV2 (# 16967) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
quote:
Originally posted by SvitlanaV2:
Judging from the website, you can see why the Quakers would fit in. Their image matches with CT's main spheres of interest.

OK, I was not talking about spheres of interest, but content style. Looking on my mobile I came across christianstogether.org , which was set off immediate alarm bells. Looking on the laptop, I see also christianstogether.net and the only thing immediately worrying is their web design. And then christianstogether.org.uk which gives me a better idea of what you are talking about.
But that first site does lead to another unpopular opinion:
The difference between accepted religion and bat-shit crazy cult is sometimes as much who won as it is the sanity of stated beliefs.

Well, religious beliefs usually seem at least a little crazy to people who don't share them. That's hardly surprising. The weirdness of organised Christianity is hardly an 'unpopular opinion' these days.

But none of the websites you've listed are relevant to Churches Together in Britain and Ireland, which is the organisation under discussion above.

This is the website I was referring to.

[ 24. October 2017, 20:09: Message edited by: SvitlanaV2 ]
 
Posted by Timothy the Obscure (# 292) on :
 
The only good thing about the Smiths was Johnny Marr's guitar. Morrissey's vocals are an annoying whine that a competent engineer surely could have removed with the right EQ settings...
 
Posted by Melisande (# 4177) on :
 
Benedict Cumberbatch is weird-looking.
 
Posted by Prester John (# 5502) on :
 
Since we're confessing admiration for very unpopular politicians - I've come to believe that Ford was extremely under-rated and wish he could have had another term.
 
Posted by Pigwidgeon (# 10192) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Melisande:
Benedict Cumberbatch is weird-looking.

Downright creepy! And his 'Hamlet' was an abomination.
 
Posted by LutheranChik (# 9826) on :
 
I third the opinion on Benedict Cumberbatch.

And... Sherlock is unwatchable
 
Posted by ExclamationMark (# 14715) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:

1. So all the Anglicans, Baptists, Methodists all accept the creeds, and in the same way? And all believe that Jesus is the only way? Rather than, for example, coming to church and doing stuff.

2. My experience is that not all who attend Quaker meetings would describe themselves as Christian. But then, I am not sure all of those attending any other church would or should. Maybe we are just a bit more honest? (I am not being arrogant or dismissive, just that the nature of the meetings means that people can be honest in ways that it is hard to be in other churches).

3. And at the heart of Quakerism is a clear expression of Christianity. We have, in our meetings, copies of Quaker faith and practice, as well as copies of the Bible.

1. No they don't all accept the historic creeds. But, each of those denominations make it plain that their praxis reflects the beliefs that flow from the creedal statements. Coming to church and doing stuff is fine as far as it goes but it is an outworking of faith not a determining route into it

2. I agree with your initial assertion. But that doesn't make you more or less honest. There will be people at every stage of "faith" in, say, a CofE parish church or a Baptist Church. Sometimes - as I have discovered - those who everyone else considered to be pillars of the church are anything but when push comes to shove.

There will be hypocrites as well as undiscovered saints. That doesn't make it any more or less honest. The goal of that church is the expression of God's people in community, with a clearly articulated core set of beliefs. It's up to you whether you embrace them but they are there just the same.

Not all Quakers self describe as Christian If a significant majority don't, how can they be realistically and honestly be part of something where others hold very different beliefs?

3. I don't find that belief articulated in practice, on the ground. I may just be unlucky with the experiences I've had in 3 very different areas. Quakers are very good at big issues but I don't for example, find them keen to be involved at the level of food bank, street pastors etc

IME Quakers are very quick to recognise a variety of belief but very slow to embrace anything that smacks of promoting Christianity as the one way to salvation.

Quakers claim they have no creedal statement yet you have "Faith and practice" what is that if it isn't a creed? It's a somewhat dissembling argument I feel to claim otherwise.

You have a bible: that's good. The real question is whether it's opened and if the contents form the basis for serious engagement with culture.

[ 25. October 2017, 08:00: Message edited by: ExclamationMark ]
 
Posted by mr cheesy (# 3330) on :
 
I have the unpopular opinion that it is boring when religious people measure others by religious standards that are not commonly accepted.

Denounce them, change the thing so it doesn't happen or.. something. Lighten up. Focus on something else other than a particular tiny minority.

The continual moaning without ever changing anything just seems to show how little this issue actually matters.
 
Posted by Enoch (# 14322) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by betjemaniac:
Alec Douglas Home ran a better election campaign than he's still given credit for.

Ted Heath was a good (if not actually visionary) PM let down by the country not being grown up enough for him and spoiling it all with squabbling.

Trade Unions are entirely necessary good and to be supported, but British Trade Unions continually let the side down by being as bad as British bosses just in a different way.

Oh dear. I agree with your second two , though I wouldn't go as far as 'visionary'. I don't agree with your first one, though the country was fed up with the Conservatives by then. I can remember that election, though I wasn't old enough to vote in it.

I haven't really been following this thread, but here are a few of mine. Betjemaniac, you won't agree with the first.

1. The Coalition was the best government we've had in recent years, by a long way, and quite possibly in my lifetime.

Cameron was a mediocre Prime Minister, but the Coalition protected him from his ghastly party - as we have seen ever since.

2. Bob Dylan is a poor singer, poor composer and trite wordsmith who doesn't deserve a Nobel Prize. He has a dismal droning nasal voice and when in history have the times not been a-changing?

3. Rugby should be called rugger, but it's still boring.

4. People should be given political asylum, but in return for receiving it, it should be conditional on your behaving yourself in the country which gives it to you. If you break that condition, you should be sent back to where you came from, however threatening and oppressive that regime might be.
 
Posted by Anselmina (# 3032) on :
 
I'm another one signing in as 'not interested' when it comes to:

Game of Thrones
Harry Potter
The Kardashians

I love 'real' coffee, but also instant. Enjoy - yes, ENJOY Pot Noodles, and meat paste sandwiches. Plus spam fritters. Yum!
 
Posted by betjemaniac (# 17618) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Enoch:
quote:
Originally posted by betjemaniac:
Alec Douglas Home ran a better election campaign than he's still given credit for.

Ted Heath was a good (if not actually visionary) PM let down by the country not being grown up enough for him and spoiling it all with squabbling.

Trade Unions are entirely necessary good and to be supported, but British Trade Unions continually let the side down by being as bad as British bosses just in a different way.

Oh dear. I agree with your second two , though I wouldn't go as far as 'visionary'. I don't agree with your first one, though the country was fed up with the Conservatives by then. I can remember that election, though I wasn't old enough to vote in it.

I haven't really been following this thread, but here are a few of mine. Betjemaniac, you won't agree with the first.


Actually I do agree with your first one.

Rugby should be called football though.... In some places - London Scottish FC etc, it still is.

What's really surprising is how many clubs still were FC right up into the 1990s - Leicester, Bath, Bristol, Moseley, etc off the top of my head.

Moseley's ground is still signposted by a local authority roadsign that reads "Moseley FC (RU)"

[ 25. October 2017, 10:15: Message edited by: betjemaniac ]
 
Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Melisande:
Benedict Cumberbatch is weird-looking.

His face is perfect for radio.
 
Posted by betjemaniac (# 17618) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
quote:
Originally posted by Melisande:
Benedict Cumberbatch is weird-looking.

His face is perfect for radio.
so are his abilities as a pilot....
 
Posted by balaam (# 4543) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
quote:
Originally posted by Melisande:
Benedict Cumberbatch is weird-looking.

His face is perfect for radio.
His face is expressive, which is perfect for TV. I agree with the weird-looking.
 
Posted by Brenda Clough (# 18061) on :
 
Everyone has seen this? Benedict Cumberbatch looks like an otter.

I have never enjoyed romance novels. Romantic novels, novels by Georgette Heyer and Alexander Dumas and Jane Austen, yes. But not the straight-line Romance Writers of American bodice rippers.
 
Posted by betjemaniac (# 17618) on :
 
I actually quite like Jilly Cooper's novels....

And I've read all of them.

Possibly that's one for the opinions you should keep quiet about thread....
 
Posted by Pigwidgeon (# 10192) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
Everyone has seen this? Benedict Cumberbatch looks like an otter.

Now THAT is the nastiest thing I've ever seen about otters, who are lovely, adorable, playful creatures. (I'd bet an otter could do a better job with Hamlet, as well.)
 
Posted by mr cheesy (# 3330) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by betjemaniac:
so are his abilities as a pilot....

Urgh, don't remind me.

BBC radio comedy is shite at the moment.
 
Posted by betjemaniac (# 17618) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by mr cheesy:
quote:
Originally posted by betjemaniac:
so are his abilities as a pilot....

Urgh, don't remind me.

BBC radio comedy is shite at the moment.

It is going through one of it's periodic thin patches on R4 in the 1830 slot certainly. I like Tim Vine, but his "chatshow" is execrable. Andy Hamilton's new thing on Wednesdays had me laughing last week.

The News Quiz is back soon, and I do think Miles Jupp has made that his own quite successfully.

Back to unpopular opinions.... I still love I'm Sorry I Haven't A Clue.
 
Posted by SvitlanaV2 (# 16967) on :
 
Talking of radio shows, 'Just a Minute' always makes me feel nervous. Maybe other people love it.
 
Posted by Mr Clingford (# 7961) on :
 
The Unbelievable Truth is still fun, though.

And I love I'm Sorry I haven't a Clue.

[ 25. October 2017, 18:52: Message edited by: Mr Clingford ]
 
Posted by balaam (# 4543) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by SvitlanaV2:
Talking of radio shows, 'Just a Minute' always makes me feel nervous. Maybe other people love it.

Is that still on? I stopped listening in the 70s
 
Posted by Jengie jon (# 273) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by balaam:
quote:
Originally posted by SvitlanaV2:
Talking of radio shows, 'Just a Minute' always makes me feel nervous. Maybe other people love it.

Is that still on? I stopped listening in the 70s
Yes, and it is unlikely you gave it up in the 1970s as it started in 1994 according to Wikipedia.

Jengie

[ 25. October 2017, 20:14: Message edited by: Jengie jon ]
 
Posted by mr cheesy (# 3330) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Jengie jon:
Yes, and it is unlikely you gave it up in the 1970s as it started in 1994 according to Wikipedia.

Jengie

Not sure which wire you have twisted, but Just a Minute has been broadcast since the 1960s. And the wikipedia page says so.
 
Posted by Curiosity killed ... (# 11770) on :
 
Just a Minute has been going for over 50 years - I was at one of the anniversary recordings last year, or it could have been Nicholas Parson's 80th birthday celebrations. It is mostly recorded in the Radio Theatre now, rather than out on the road.

There's a new series of John Finemore's Souvenir Programme in recording, and My Teenage Diary, plus It's Not What You Know with replacement host Joe Lycette (going by the tickets for which I have received notifications - I was allocated News Quiz tickets and ended up working late, much to my irritation, wouldn't have applied if i hadn't believed I would have escaped the job by then.)
 
Posted by Moo (# 107) on :
 
I remember listening to Just a Minute when I lived in Belfast in the late 1960s.

Moo
 
Posted by Pangolin Guerre (# 18686) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Pigwidgeon:
quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
Everyone has seen this? Benedict Cumberbatch looks like an otter.

Now THAT is the nastiest thing I've ever seen about otters, who are lovely, adorable, playful creatures. (I'd bet an otter could do a better job with Hamlet, as well.)
Apparently none of you beheld the Hamlet at The Young Vic with Michael Sheen in 2011. To call it ghastly is too much honour. Sheen wasn't to blame - it was misbegotten by director and producer from start to finish. A conceptual pig's breakfast.

As to Mr Cumberbatch, he was on an American chat show on which he joked about his resemblance to a marmot(?) in Ice Age (the animated film). However weird you might think his look, he does have a sense of humour about himself. Lay off.
 
Posted by Eirenist (# 13343) on :
 
Mistakenly believing and saying that a hostile power has weapons of mass destruction does not automatically make you a liar. Nor did Tony Blair single-handedly start the Iraq War. Nor is he the AntiChrist.
 
Posted by Jemima the 9th (# 15106) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by betjemaniac:
quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
quote:
Originally posted by Melisande:
Benedict Cumberbatch is weird-looking.

His face is perfect for radio.
so are his abilities as a pilot....
Oh, I miss Cabin Pressure so much. Bleak Expectations was great too.

M le Cucumberpatch was pretty good as Hamlet, I thought, though I'm no theatre expert, and am hardly the least biased person to give an opinion. [Biased] Andrew Scott, though, was amazing. Properly goosebump inducing.

I see my unpopular opinion on the not-very-funniness of the work of Douglas Adams has been taken already.
 
Posted by Anselmina (# 3032) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by SvitlanaV2:
Talking of radio shows, 'Just a Minute' always makes me feel nervous. Maybe other people love it.

Makes me nervous, too. I find I can't settle to listen to it because I'm waiting for that bloody buzzer to interrupt. And sometimes I want to hear what the person is saying despite the deviation, repetition and whatever the other thing is. Oh yeah.... er..... hesitation. <buzzz>
 
Posted by Eirenist (# 13343) on :
 
A bit late, but: Come back, Nick Clegg, all is forgiven.
 
Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Eirenist:
A bit late, but: Come back, Nick Clegg, all is forgiven.

Agreed. The LibDems clearly mitigated the worst Tory excesses then got the blame for broken promises they could hardly have enforced. Things could have been a lot worse.
 
Posted by Schroedinger's cat (# 64) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Eirenist:
A bit late, but: Come back, Nick Clegg, all is forgiven.

Agree. With hindsight, he was in a no-win situation, because the Tories were - and still are - manipulative, lying scum. And they had a patsy to blame ofr everything.

His only major failing was that he went with the Tories not Labour. If he had gone with Labour, we would be in a very different situation now, I think.
 
Posted by MaryLouise (# 18697) on :
 
I am as fond of conspiracy theories as anyone else (*popcorn*smoking gun* aliens*) but really don't care who killed JFK.
 
Posted by Wet Kipper (# 1654) on :
 
I don't think Amy Winehouse's cover of "Valerie" was the best song on Mark Ronson's album "Version"

[ 27. October 2017, 09:00: Message edited by: Wet Kipper ]
 
Posted by Stejjie (# 13941) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Wet Kipper:
I don't think Amy Winehouse's cover of "Valerie" was the best song on Mark Ronson's album "Version"

...and the Zutons' version is much better.
 
Posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider (# 76) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Stejjie:
quote:
Originally posted by Wet Kipper:
I don't think Amy Winehouse's cover of "Valerie" was the best song on Mark Ronson's album "Version"

...and the Zutons' version is much better.
Her cover of "Valerie" was terrible, as was most of her output, to be frank. That's my UO for the day.
 
Posted by betjemaniac (# 17618) on :
 
Unpopular opinion of the day:

*even* when you don't think they're going to win the seat, it's a good idea to vet *even* the paperiest of paper candidates properly.

Just in case they do win.

[ 27. October 2017, 11:11: Message edited by: betjemaniac ]
 
Posted by L'organist (# 17338) on :
 
No unpopular with me, Bejtemaniac.

But a friend trying to do just that before casting their vote for Synod was greeted with umbrage for trying to ascertain candidates' views on various issues. The general reaction was [Eek!]
 
Posted by Golden Key (# 1468) on :
 
MaryLouise--

quote:
Originally posted by MaryLouise:
I am as fond of conspiracy theories as anyone else (*popcorn*smoking gun* aliens*) but really don't care who killed JFK.

There's a theory about popcorn??

I suspect it's mostly Americans who care about JFK's death. Still a problematic wound for the culture and many people. Irish (Kennedy roots) and the English (connection through Lord Mountbatten, IIRC) might care, too.
 
Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by betjemaniac:
Unpopular opinion of the day:

*even* when you don't think they're going to win the seat, it's a good idea to vet *even* the paperiest of paper candidates properly.

Just in case they do win.

Old time (well, 1970s) trade union leader Jack Jones was firmly of the opinion that you shouldn't hold a vote if you don't know what the result is going to be.

I think that is what the Tories meant when they said the Unions had too much power.
 
Posted by betjemaniac (# 17618) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
quote:
Originally posted by betjemaniac:
Unpopular opinion of the day:

*even* when you don't think they're going to win the seat, it's a good idea to vet *even* the paperiest of paper candidates properly.

Just in case they do win.

Old time (well, 1970s) trade union leader Jack Jones was firmly of the opinion that you shouldn't hold a vote if you don't know what the result is going to be.

I think that is what the Tories meant when they said the Unions had too much power.

I'll raise you another unpopular opinion (well 2 really);

Jack Jones was a brave man. Also an idiot.
 
Posted by Enoch (# 14322) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
... His only major failing was that he went with the Tories not Labour. If he had gone with Labour, we would be in a very different situation now, I think.

That's a myth that was never going to happen,

1. The maths didn't work, and

2. Gordon Brown would never have done a deal. It would have been beyond the scope of his personality. And if the deal had been 'we'll form a coalition with you, but only on condition you change your leader', that wasn't going to happen either.
 
Posted by Enoch (# 14322) on :
 
Second post
quote:
Originally posted by MaryLouise:
I ... really don't care who killed JFK.

I think Oswald did it, but I don't really care either. And I'm not convinced it's either interesting or matters.
 
Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Enoch:
Second post
quote:
Originally posted by MaryLouise:
I ... really don't care who killed JFK.

I think Oswald did it, but I don't really care either. And I'm not convinced it's either interesting or matters.
All that is remotely interesting is whether Oswald was acting on his own initiative or for another party.
 
Posted by ExclamationMark (# 14715) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
quote:
Originally posted by Enoch:
Second post
quote:
Originally posted by MaryLouise:
I ... really don't care who killed JFK.

I think Oswald did it, but I don't really care either. And I'm not convinced it's either interesting or matters.
All that is remotely interesting is whether Oswald was acting on his own initiative or for another party.
JFK was a hardly a paragon of virtue. Cant see what everyone saw in him unless it was the Irish American chip on his shoulder.
 
Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by ExclamationMark:
JFK was a hardly a paragon of virtue. Cant see what everyone saw in him unless it was the Irish American chip on his shoulder.

[Roll Eyes]
He was charismatic, considered good looking and strong public speaker. I mean, what is there to understand about his popularity?

Personal character is rarely what gains people awe.
 
Posted by Graven Image (# 8755) on :
 
I see no reason to ever drink coffee, smells good, tastes bad.

I do not like most music, hardly ever listen to it. Have no idea what is popular, and do not care.

Found Star Wars movies a total bore.

I do not like children in general, but do like particular children one or two at a time very much.
 
Posted by Zappa (# 8433) on :
 
I am conservative when it comes to (viable-onwards) abortion and all euthanasia. And the resurrection.

Bloody hell ... I'll be Thwump supporter soon. [Eek!]
 
Posted by ExclamationMark (# 14715) on :
 
Woody Allen

Rob Bell
 
Posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider (# 76) on :
 
Today's UO - when it comes to the positivity or otherwise of the impact of religions on the world, Dawkins et al. have a good point.

[ 28. October 2017, 04:47: Message edited by: Karl: Liberal Backslider ]
 
Posted by mousethief (# 953) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Graven Image:
I see no reason to ever drink coffee, smells good, tastes bad.

Hear².
 
Posted by Golden Key (# 1468) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
Today's UO - when it comes to the positivity or otherwise of the impact of religions on the world, Dawkins et al. have a good point.

I have moments of singing John Lennon's "Imagine".
 
Posted by Golden Key (# 1468) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
quote:
Originally posted by ExclamationMark:
JFK was a hardly a paragon of virtue. Cant see what everyone saw in him unless it was the Irish American chip on his shoulder.

[Roll Eyes]
He was charismatic, considered good looking and strong public speaker. I mean, what is there to understand about his popularity?

Personal character is rarely what gains people awe.

I don't want to derail this into a JFK thread. But a couple of things:

--Yes, JFK had serious flaws.

--He was also a WWII naval hero. When his ship, PT 109, sank, he saved many lives. There is some controversy about exact details, but it was publicly believed at the time. Do a search on "JFK PT 109".

--He had severe back problems (possibly from the PT 109 incident), and IIRC Addison's disease..

--There was also the "Camelot" mythology and magic that built around JFK, Jackie, and the kids. AIUI, it had been some time since young kids lived at the White House. And Jackie was an icon of grace and style. Women followed her fashion lead.

--He was our first/only Catholic president. This was before Vatican II, and very, very controversial. Not to mention the way many people felt about the Irish.

--And there was little John-John, in a heavy coat, saluting his dead father.

Just trying to show that there were many factors.
[Angel]
 
Posted by Golden Key (# 1468) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
quote:
Originally posted by Graven Image:
I see no reason to ever drink coffee, smells good, tastes bad.

Hear².
Me 3, except for coffee ice cream in Mud Pie.
 
Posted by Schroedinger's cat (# 64) on :
 
You are clearly not drinking the right coffee.

UO - humanity sucks. Some people are lovely, but it seems the default setting is a shit.
 
Posted by Jay-Emm (# 11411) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by la vie en rouge:
I like Les Misérables but agree that the 100 page digression on the subject of the Paris sewers is not Hugo’s finest hour.

Whereas I think that that and the other chapter on 'merde' should have been in the musical.
(My if I ever had the energy to do it, is to produce a more keeping to the book version as a present for a friend).

As an opinion, that book and Vanity fair I think have the best descriptions of the battle of Waterloo.

[ 28. October 2017, 18:20: Message edited by: Jay-Emm ]
 
Posted by Sober Preacher's Kid (# 12699) on :
 
Québec is a bilingual province and so is Ontario.

I am going to run away now.
 
Posted by balaam (# 4543) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Stejjie:
quote:
Originally posted by Wet Kipper:
I don't think Amy Winehouse's cover of "Valerie" was the best song on Mark Ronson's album "Version"

...and the Zutons' version is much better.
Well said.
 
Posted by Schroedinger's cat (# 64) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by balaam:
quote:
Originally posted by Stejjie:
quote:
Originally posted by Wet Kipper:
I don't think Amy Winehouse's cover of "Valerie" was the best song on Mark Ronson's album "Version"

...and the Zutons' version is much better.
Well said.
The Zutons is better, but it is still a pretty poor song. I don't know why it gets so much play.
 
Posted by Jemima the 9th (# 15106) on :
 
Ah, I love it. But then I'm ginger.

My UO, prompted by GK's post, is that I really, really really don't like the song Imagine. In fact, I don't much care for either the music (solo), or the person of John Lennon. I also can't stand the song Sexual Healing. I have been known to vault furniture in an effort to get to the radio off switch if it's on.
 
Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 
I agree Jemima. Imagine is an awful, pretentious dirge, I don't like John Lennon one bit, and that's nothing to do with Yoko.
 
Posted by Aravis (# 13824) on :
 
Although I've lived in Cardiff for most of my life, I have not the slightest interest in rugby, and think that the Welsh language is vastly over-promoted (especially in this area) at the expense of common sense.

I'm probably going to get called to Hell over the second statement. [Devil]
 
Posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider (# 76) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
I agree Jemima. Imagine is an awful, pretentious dirge, I don't like John Lennon one bit, and that's nothing to do with Yoko.

It annoys religious fundamentalists, which is a massive plus point.

UO of the day - great as he was with Art Garfunkel, Paul Simon's solo work sucked, yes, even Graceland.

[ 29. October 2017, 06:35: Message edited by: Karl: Liberal Backslider ]
 
Posted by Golden Key (# 1468) on :
 
Aravis--


[Biased] There's an old joke that Welsh and Hawai'ian were once one language. Then they split up. Welsh got the consonants, and Hawai'ian got the vowels.

Perhaps you could put them back together?
[Biased]
 
Posted by Golden Key (# 1468) on :
 
--Agree that S & G together were vastly better than S separately. He needs G's wonderful voice to balance his. Not sure I'd go as far as saying that S's solo music sucked.

--Re "Imagine": I only use it when some stupid thing involving religion has happened, and I just want to chuck the whole thing.
 
Posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider (# 76) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
Aravis--


[Biased] There's an old joke that Welsh and Hawai'ian were once one language. Then they split up. Welsh got the consonants, and Hawai'ian got the vowels.

[Biased]

Welsh has seven vowel symbols, more than Hawai'ian, and a rich array of diphthongs. Some words e.g. Wy, Wyau (egg, eggs) - are made up entirely of vowels. This tired old joke is crap because it's not based even on an exaggeration. Welsh is in fact a very vowelly language, and tends towards softer consonants, partially because of the mutation system which frequently changes c to g, t to d, gw to w. Dd and f are pronounced so softly they are frequently dropped altogether. The ignorance gets trying after a while.

[ 29. October 2017, 08:01: Message edited by: Karl: Liberal Backslider ]
 
Posted by mr cheesy (# 3330) on :
 
I have the unpopular opinion that there isn't enough Welsh in Cardiff and that the day that one walks into a shop and is greeted with a cheery "Bore da" would be a major accomplishment.

[ 29. October 2017, 08:15: Message edited by: mr cheesy ]
 
Posted by Baptist Trainfan (# 15128) on :
 
My wife - she and I having only recently moved here - would be of the same opinion.
 
Posted by mr cheesy (# 3330) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
Welsh has seven vowel symbols, more than Hawai'ian, and a rich array of diphthongs. Some words e.g. Wy, Wyau (egg, eggs) - are made up entirely of vowels. This tired old joke is crap because it's not based even on an exaggeration. Welsh is in fact a very vowelly language, and tends towards softer consonants, partially because of the mutation system which frequently changes c to g, t to d, gw to w. Dd and f are pronounced so softly they are frequently dropped altogether. The ignorance gets trying after a while.

My observation is that the thing with Welsh (and presumably also Cornish which is similar I think) is that it sounds nothing like English. If an English-speaker hears someone speaking Welsh they don't recognise more than the very odd word. Which I think makes English-speaking people confused, the poor darlings - they're used to hearing Europeans speaking languages that sound vaguely familiar.

But then I don't really understand the hatred of the Welsh language. There are various small places in Europe that have languages that nobody else understands, some where another is commonly spoken.

Meh. Deal with it.
 
Posted by Schroedinger's cat (# 64) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
--Agree that S & G together were vastly better than S separately. He needs G's wonderful voice to balance his. Not sure I'd go as far as saying that S's solo music sucked.

--Re "Imagine": I only use it when some stupid thing involving religion has happened, and I just want to chuck the whole thing.

In both cases, the groups together were much better than the individual parts.

Although I still think S&G as a duo were better than the Beatles. And both individuals did manage some moderately decent pieces afterwards, although nothing really special.
 
Posted by balaam (# 4543) on :
 
The best album by Simon or Garfunkel after the split was Angel Clare.
 
Posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider (# 76) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by mr cheesy:
quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
Welsh has seven vowel symbols, more than Hawai'ian, and a rich array of diphthongs. Some words e.g. Wy, Wyau (egg, eggs) - are made up entirely of vowels. This tired old joke is crap because it's not based even on an exaggeration. Welsh is in fact a very vowelly language, and tends towards softer consonants, partially because of the mutation system which frequently changes c to g, t to d, gw to w. Dd and f are pronounced so softly they are frequently dropped altogether. The ignorance gets trying after a while.

My observation is that the thing with Welsh (and presumably also Cornish which is similar I think) is that it sounds nothing like English. If an English-speaker hears someone speaking Welsh they don't recognise more than the very odd word. Which I think makes English-speaking people confused, the poor darlings - they're used to hearing Europeans speaking languages that sound vaguely familiar.

But then I don't really understand the hatred of the Welsh language. There are various small places in Europe that have languages that nobody else understands, some where another is commonly spoken.

Meh. Deal with it.

I also think they hear the Rh, Ll and Ch,because they don't occur in English, but they're hardly the whole language
 
Posted by Brenda Clough (# 18061) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
--Agree that S & G together were vastly better than S separately. He needs G's wonderful voice to balance his. Not sure I'd go as far as saying that S's solo music sucked.

--Re "Imagine": I only use it when some stupid thing involving religion has happened, and I just want to chuck the whole thing.

In both cases, the groups together were much better than the individual parts.

Although I still think S&G as a duo were better than the Beatles. And both individuals did manage some moderately decent pieces afterwards, although nothing really special.

Hmm, I disagree. Paul Simon's Graceland was seminal in getting African music out from the 'world music' bin and into wider hearing. Without 'You Can Call Me Al' there would have been no Lion King.
 
Posted by Kitten (# 1179) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
Hmm, I disagree. Paul Simon's Graceland was seminal in getting African music out from the 'world music' bin and into wider hearing. Without 'You Can Call Me Al' there would have been no Lion King.

And that would be a bad thing?

I detest Disney cartoons
 
Posted by Brenda Clough (# 18061) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Kitten:
quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
Hmm, I disagree. Paul Simon's Graceland was seminal in getting African music out from the 'world music' bin and into wider hearing. Without 'You Can Call Me Al' there would have been no Lion King.

And that would be a bad thing?

I detest Disney cartoons

Oh, it was a loathsome movie. I'm thinking purely of the music. Lion King, you must admit, was popular -- and now every ear under the age of 15 is attuned to African music rhythms. You can hear its influence in musical theater and pop. And it was Simon who opened that door.
 
Posted by Albertus (# 13356) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by mr cheesy:
I have the unpopular opinion that there isn't enough Welsh in Cardiff and that the day that one walks into a shop and is greeted with a cheery "Bore da" would be a major accomplishment.

I'm delighted to find myself in agreement with you on this.
(IME the main places you'll hear Welsh in Cardiff, outside places like Chapter Arts Centre,are John Lewis and Ikea, which presumably people travel to because they're the only ones in Wales- but from customers rather than staff.)

[ 29. October 2017, 20:30: Message edited by: Albertus ]
 
Posted by Albertus (# 13356) on :
 
My unpopular opinion:
In public life, downbeat, thorough, competence is generally preferable to glamour and charisma. So Attlee and, except in foreign affairs, Chamberlain, rather than Churchill as peacetime British PMs; Truman and Johnson (rather than JFK) as US Presidents; Fisher rather than Ramsey as Archbishop of Canterbury.
 
Posted by Nick Tamen (# 15164) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Kitten:
quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
Hmm, I disagree. Paul Simon's Graceland was seminal in getting African music out from the 'world music' bin and into wider hearing. Without 'You Can Call Me Al' there would have been no Lion King.

And that would be a bad thing?

I detest Disney cartoons

But the stage version is incredible; infinitely better than the movie, both visually and musically, and in terms of the African influences.
 
Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Nick Tamen:
quote:
Originally posted by Kitten:
quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
Hmm, I disagree. Paul Simon's Graceland was seminal in getting African music out from the 'world music' bin and into wider hearing. Without 'You Can Call Me Al' there would have been no Lion King.

And that would be a bad thing?

I detest Disney cartoons

But the stage version is incredible; infinitely better than the movie, both visually and musically, and in terms of the African influences.
When heard the opening part of the film version of the main song, my heart soared. Only to come crashing down and lie crushed on the floor when the trite, rubbish vocals began. The film was typical Disney.
But the stage production reclaimed the music and the design was fantastic.
 
Posted by Pigwidgeon (# 10192) on :
 
I never saw the movie but have seen the stage version twice and loved it. I will go see it again the next time it comes to town.
 
Posted by Golden Key (# 1468) on :
 
Karl and all other Welsh folks--

quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
Aravis--


[Biased] There's an old joke that Welsh and Hawai'ian were once one language. Then they split up. Welsh got the consonants, and Hawai'ian got the vowels.

[Biased]

Welsh has seven vowel symbols, more than Hawai'ian, and a rich array of diphthongs. Some words e.g. Wy, Wyau (egg, eggs) - are made up entirely of vowels. This tired old joke is crap because it's not based even on an exaggeration. Welsh is in fact a very vowelly language, and tends towards softer consonants, partially because of the mutation system which frequently changes c to g, t to d, gw to w. Dd and f are pronounced so softly they are frequently dropped altogether. The ignorance gets trying after a while.
I apologize.
[Hot and Hormonal]

May I quickly explain something? A non-Welsh speaker looks at the words, and sees almost all consonants. (At least, the Welsh I've seen over the years. I've had very little chance to hear it spoken.) From what you said, some of the letters that are consonants in English are vowels in Welsh. There's no way a non-speaker would know that.

And Hawai'ian is just the opposite--lots and lots of vowels, both written and spoken.

That's it.

Again, I'm sorry.
 
Posted by Aravis (# 13824) on :
 
I've no objection to the Welsh language itself and I understand a reasonable amount of it. Enough, for example, to notice errors in bilingual signs on a regular basis. It's the political agenda I object to.

(I started writing more but deleted it. Free speech doesn't really exist on this topic.)
 
Posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider (# 76) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
Karl and all other Welsh folks--

quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
Aravis--


[Biased] There's an old joke that Welsh and Hawai'ian were once one language. Then they split up. Welsh got the consonants, and Hawai'ian got the vowels.

[Biased]

Welsh has seven vowel symbols, more than Hawai'ian, and a rich array of diphthongs. Some words e.g. Wy, Wyau (egg, eggs) - are made up entirely of vowels. This tired old joke is crap because it's not based even on an exaggeration. Welsh is in fact a very vowelly language, and tends towards softer consonants, partially because of the mutation system which frequently changes c to g, t to d, gw to w. Dd and f are pronounced so softly they are frequently dropped altogether. The ignorance gets trying after a while.
I apologize.
[Hot and Hormonal]

May I quickly explain something? A non-Welsh speaker looks at the words, and sees almost all consonants. (At least, the Welsh I've seen over the years. I've had very little chance to hear it spoken.) From what you said, some of the letters that are consonants in English are vowels in Welsh. There's no way a non-speaker would know that.

And Hawai'ian is just the opposite--lots and lots of vowels, both written and spoken.

That's it.

Again, I'm sorry.

It's a prickly subject as its sometimes violent repression is still in living memory, and the English tendency to mock it, whilst simultaneously knowing nothing about it, can seem like a continuation of English domination. FWIW, I'm not Welsh, but (unusually, perhaps) have taken the decision to learn the language of people with whom England's history is entwined so closely and is in regular current use only a hundred miles or so away from me.

I am firmly of the opinion that familiarity with (I'm not talking about gaining proficiency, although that option should I think be available) the minority languages of the UK should be part of the curriculum throughout. I think we're selling English children short by letting them either not know they exist, or thinking they're not proper languages, or just a pretext for ridicule. It's a pipe-dream, I know, but to me it has always seemed utterly bizarre that the English generally don't know a word of the languages of people with whom they share a small land-mass. OK, most of them know iechyd da, but they usually pronounce it wrong (it's not "yacky dah") and don't know what it means (it doesn't mean "hello")
 
Posted by mr cheesy (# 3330) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Aravis:
I've no objection to the Welsh language itself and I understand a reasonable amount of it. Enough, for example, to notice errors in bilingual signs on a regular basis. It's the political agenda I object to.

(I started writing more but deleted it. Free speech doesn't really exist on this topic.)

The political agenda.. for Welsh people to see official communications in their own ancient language..?
 
Posted by L'organist (# 17338) on :
 
I think that Aravis may be one of those English people who live in Wales by virtue of job?

In any case: while Welsh may not be the majority language for lots of people living in our national capital (Cardiff) it is entirely right that it should be on signs, and as the first language on those.

As for a "political agenda" I have no idea, unless it is to try to claim that people like the oldest of my still-living relatives are being over-sensitive if they stll feel it was wrong that they were punished for speaking their mother tongue in the school playground?

Self and the sons aren't fluent (though improving) but we do occasionally go into Welsh if we want to share a private joke or comment.

And I heartily agree with KLB: it is baffling that schools are scrambling to offer pupils Mandarin, etc, yet those on the border don't offer Welsh.
 
Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:

And I heartily agree with KLB: it is baffling that schools are scrambling to offer pupils Mandarin, etc, yet those on the border don't offer Welsh.

Bilingual signs, encouraging the study of Welsh, getting the English to understand the Isle is not completely theirs are worthy aims.
But not understanding why it is desirable to learn the language of one of the most dominant economies in the world is, in itself, difficult to understand.

[ 30. October 2017, 14:49: Message edited by: lilBuddha ]
 
Posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider (# 76) on :
 
Of course it is an important language, but in my life, and I suspect that of many others, I have had several occasions where mastery of Welsh would have been to my benefit, but none where Mandarin would. This has something to do with living rather nearer Blaenau Ffestiniog than Beijing.
 
Posted by Baptist Trainfan (# 15128) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by mr cheesy:
quote:
Originally posted by Aravis:
I've no objection to the Welsh language itself and I understand a reasonable amount of it. Enough, for example, to notice errors in bilingual signs on a regular basis. It's the political agenda I object to.

(I started writing more but deleted it. Free speech doesn't really exist on this topic.)

The political agenda.. for Welsh people to see official communications in their own ancient language..?
It does mean that all brochures, newsletters etc. are twice the thickness as they have English starting at the front and Welsh (the other way up) starting at the back.

Mind you, who knows which end is the front or the back? Depends on your viewpoint. And, just for fun,look at this (available in both languages). What a shame it's mere fiction. (PS We live at the far reaches of the red line ... ).

[ 30. October 2017, 15:22: Message edited by: Baptist Trainfan ]
 
Posted by mr cheesy (# 3330) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:
It does mean that all brochures, newsletters etc. are twice the thickness as they have English starting at the front and Welsh (the other way up) starting at the back.

Oh no!
 
Posted by Baptist Trainfan (# 15128) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
Of course it is an important language, but in my life, and I suspect that of many others, I have had several occasions where mastery of Welsh would have been to my benefit, but none where Mandarin would. This has something to do with living rather nearer Blaenau Ffestiniog than Beijing.

You could surprise the staff at this place! (Of course they might be Bulgarian ...).

[ 30. October 2017, 15:26: Message edited by: Baptist Trainfan ]
 
Posted by Baptist Trainfan (# 15128) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by mr cheesy:
quote:
Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:
It does mean that all brochures, newsletters etc. are twice the thickness as they have English starting at the front and Welsh (the other way up) starting at the back.

Oh no!
Oh yes - including the programme of the concert we went to the other day at St. David's Hall.
 
Posted by mr cheesy (# 3330) on :
 
I'm struggling to understand why the thickness of programmes is really a bad thing.
 
Posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider (# 76) on :
 
Well it's easily resolved; the English version is there as a favour to the monoglots, so if they don't like it it can always be removed...
 
Posted by Albertus (# 13356) on :
 
That's what the former Archdruid Robyn Lewis used to say (slightly mischievously), isn't it- bilingual text can't be for Welsh-speakers because they all understand English so it must be for English speakers who don't understand Welsh.
And actually, despite the myths that there are around it, it's not that difficult a language to learn, at least to a basic level.
 
Posted by Eirenist (# 13343) on :
 
I think the suspicion of the speaking of Welsh among the monoglot English is due to the thought that the Welsh-speakers are passing uncomplimentary remarks about them. Sometimes they are right, of course.
Many years ago, my family were climbing Cnicht, a mountain near Blaenau Ffestiniog. We passed a house offering tea, and called in to refresh ourselves. There was a good deal of giggling going on, and we realised that the people running the tea thought we were unaware that this was a money-raising event for Plaid Cymru (the Welsh Nationalist party, FYI Trans-ponders.)
 
Posted by Baptist Trainfan (# 15128) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by mr cheesy:
I'm struggling to understand why the thickness of programmes is really a bad thing.

Increases printing costs and postage?
 
Posted by leo (# 1458) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:
quote:
Originally posted by mr cheesy:
I'm struggling to understand why the thickness of programmes is really a bad thing.

Increases printing costs and postage?
More trees cut down.
 
Posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider (# 76) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Albertus:
That's what the former Archdruid Robyn Lewis used to say (slightly mischievously), isn't it- bilingual text can't be for Welsh-speakers because they all understand English so it must be for English speakers who don't understand Welsh.
And actually, despite the myths that there are around it, it's not that difficult a language to learn, at least to a basic level.

True, true. No noun cases, single verb conjugation, about five irregular verbs. The difficult bits I find are unpredictable genders and plurals. People get het up about mutations but they're really not that bad.
 
Posted by Albertus (# 13356) on :
 
No, the mutations are nice and regular, and genuinely do, mostly, make it easier to speak. Generally it's quite a logical language- apart from those unpredictable genders and plurals, but most native speakers I know would admit to being a bit unsure about some of them. Easier than Russian, I'd say- I don't mean because of the Cyrillic alphabet, I'm thinking about things like the different verb forms which always used to trip me up a bit.
There is, unfortunately, a bit of bollocks occasionally spoken by a minority of old shags along the lines of 'if you don't speak Welsh you're not Welsh really' (really? So what are the people in Pontypridd, then, because they're sure as hell not English), or 'if you're not Welsh you'll never really get it', or outrage because some footballer who's been willing to use his Welsh in a TV interview turns out to speak Welsh, well, about as correctly as some footballers speak English. But on the whole I've found people very supportive of any effort you make to learn and speak it. And like you, way back, even before I moved to Wales, I did have a sense deep down that if one could one really ought to know something of the second language of this island- and I still do.

[ 30. October 2017, 20:10: Message edited by: Albertus ]
 
Posted by mr cheesy (# 3330) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Albertus:
No, the mutations are nice and regular, and genuinely do, mostly, make it easier to speak.

Hahaha. Well yes, they're regular in the sense that they happen regularly in particular circumstances. But one has to know those circumstances, which aren't necessarily obvious. Sometimes words are mutated because of words which used to appear in the sentence but have been lost or are no longer spoken. Sometimes words mutate in two directions depending on the person being referred to (my car, her car, his car - fy nghar i, ei char hi, ei gar e).

But then my Welsh teacher does say that some of the mutations are commonly ignored in speech.

It's all fun. But I wouldn't say it is easy and I've heard people who are fluent in several languages say that Welsh is hard.

--

On the Welsh-welsh thing; I know someone who is very Welsh (strong accent, has family who has lived in valleys for generations) who runs a Wales-wide organisation. He told me once that he gets abuse from Welsh-only speakers who say that as a leader of a nationwide organisation he should be fluent in Welsh, and as a result he is actually "English".

Which is pretty offensive. The guy is learning, the organisation has fluent welsh-speakers at high levels.
 
Posted by Baptist Trainfan (# 15128) on :
 
Leanne Wood, the Plaid Cymru leader, is not a native Welsh speaker, though she learned the language (pretty well obligatory in her position, I would have thought).
 
Posted by L'organist (# 17338) on :
 
posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider
quote:
Of course it is an important language, but in my life, and I suspect that of many others, I have had several occasions where mastery of Welsh would have been to my benefit, but none where Mandarin would. This has something to do with living rather nearer Blaenau Ffestiniog than Beijing.
Or France?

My late Godfather loved to tell the (true) story of getting lost in deepest rural France with his MFL graduate s-i-l and asking directions the fluent French speaker was baffled - while Godfather understood, was able to reply in Welsh and then translate the Breton into English for his s-i-l (who had previously been very dismissive of Welsh as a language).

As for Mandarin being more useful, it depends where you use it: try it in Hong Kong (for instance) and you're likely to get a frosty reception; language in the ex-colony is highly political and the deliberate attempt by Beijing to suppress written and spoken Cantonese is well-documented and on-going.

[ 31. October 2017, 10:01: Message edited by: L'organist ]
 
Posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider (# 76) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:
posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider
quote:
Of course it is an important language, but in my life, and I suspect that of many others, I have had several occasions where mastery of Welsh would have been to my benefit, but none where Mandarin would. This has something to do with living rather nearer Blaenau Ffestiniog than Beijing.
Or France?

My late Godfather loved to tell the (true) story of getting lost in deepest rural France with his MFL graduate s-i-l and asking directions the fluent French speaker was baffled - while Godfather understood, was able to reply in Welsh and then translate the Breton into English for his s-i-l (who had previously been very dismissive of Welsh as a language).
.

They're not mutually intelligible; limited communication is possible but it's very much individual nouns, point and gesture. My fluent 1st language Welsh speaking friends confirm they cannot understand Breton or Cornish, although they recognise individual words.

Be particularly careful of ordering gwin coc'h in Brittany - coc'h means "shit".

[ 31. October 2017, 13:37: Message edited by: Karl: Liberal Backslider ]
 
Posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider (# 76) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by mr cheesy:
quote:
Originally posted by Albertus:
No, the mutations are nice and regular, and genuinely do, mostly, make it easier to speak.

Hahaha. Well yes, they're regular in the sense that they happen regularly in particular circumstances. But one has to know those circumstances, which aren't necessarily obvious. Sometimes words are mutated because of words which used to appear in the sentence but have been lost or are no longer spoken. Sometimes words mutate in two directions depending on the person being referred to (my car, her car, his car - fy nghar i, ei char hi, ei gar e).

But then my Welsh teacher does say that some of the mutations are commonly ignored in speech.

It's all fun. But I wouldn't say it is easy and I've heard people who are fluent in several languages say that Welsh is hard.

--

On the Welsh-welsh thing; I know someone who is very Welsh (strong accent, has family who has lived in valleys for generations) who runs a Wales-wide organisation. He told me once that he gets abuse from Welsh-only speakers who say that as a leader of a nationwide organisation he should be fluent in Welsh, and as a result he is actually "English".

Which is pretty offensive. The guy is learning, the organisation has fluent welsh-speakers at high levels.

Shows there are knob-ends wherever you go, doesn't it?
 
Posted by Albertus (# 13356) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:

And I heartily agree with KLB: it is baffling that schools are scrambling to offer pupils Mandarin, etc, yet those on the border don't offer Welsh.

Bilingual signs, encouraging the study of Welsh, getting the English to understand the Isle is not completely theirs are worthy aims.
But not understanding why it is desirable to learn the language of one of the most dominant economies in the world is, in itself, difficult to understand.

no thanks. Bad enough as it is that the buggers are going to run the world, without our making it easier for them to do so.
 
Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Albertus:
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:

And I heartily agree with KLB: it is baffling that schools are scrambling to offer pupils Mandarin, etc, yet those on the border don't offer Welsh.

Bilingual signs, encouraging the study of Welsh, getting the English to understand the Isle is not completely theirs are worthy aims.
But not understanding why it is desirable to learn the language of one of the most dominant economies in the world is, in itself, difficult to understand.

no thanks. Bad enough as it is that the buggers are going to run the world, without our making it easier for them to do so.
[Roll Eyes] The idea is to make it easier for us.
 
Posted by Albertus (# 13356) on :
 
...to be run by them. Top.
 
Posted by mr cheesy (# 3330) on :
 
Meanwhile a local group has been set up to protest at the local council replacing signs with bilingual versions.

The ironic fact that this group loudly claims to uphold and remember local history doesn't seem to register to anyone.

Political correctness gone mad, I'm told.
 
Posted by mr cheesy (# 3330) on :
 
I wouldn't mind, but I'm in Nottingham.

Not really - I'm in the South Wales valleys.
 
Posted by jacobsen (# 14998) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by agingjb:
I like reading Jane Austen's novels, which, I suspect, puts me in an unpopular minority.

That makes two of us. I'm having a re-reading jag of all her novels and they're amazing. I keep spotting things which had previously passed me by.
 
Posted by Brenda Clough (# 18061) on :
 
I am thinking of reading George Eliot. I loathed Silas Marner in high school, but suspect I will do better with it now.
 
Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Albertus:
...to be run by them. Top.

You think you are funny, but ignorance does not end in bliss.
 
Posted by Albertus (# 13356) on :
 
Believe me, I don't think I'm funny, not on this occasion, anyway: nor do I think that the prospect of China running the world is anything to laugh about.
 
Posted by Moo (# 107) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
I am thinking of reading George Eliot. I loathed Silas Marner in high school, but suspect I will do better with it now.

The BBC did an excellent production of that back in the 1980s.

Moo
 
Posted by Leaf (# 14169) on :
 
IMUO:
Dr. Who is unwatchable.
Dark fruit cake is inedible.
Leonard Cohen and Bob Dylan are supremely talented songwriters and supremely untalented vocalists.
There are good aspects of American Evangelical Christianity, which go unacknowledged because it's more fun to sneer at them.
Ruth Negga was a perfect casting choice for Tulip in "Preacher."
 
Posted by Marvin the Martian (# 4360) on :
 
I like the Star Wars prequels. Even Phantom Menace.
 
Posted by Baptist Trainfan (# 15128) on :
 
I don't like "Star Trek".
 
Posted by Lamb Chopped (# 5528) on :
 
Since I was bad and posted on the wrong thread:

I hate Christmas. It just sucks.
 
Posted by balaam (# 4543) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
I like the Star Wars prequels. Even Phantom Menace.

Especially Jar-Jar Binks. Anyone who has taken kids along and seen their reaction to Binks will see that the character works, It is a family film, get over it.
 
Posted by mr cheesy (# 3330) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Lamb Chopped:
Since I was bad and posted on the wrong thread:

I hate Christmas. It just sucks.

I don't feel so bad this year (yet!) but in past years I've dreaded the whole experience and have done everything possible to avoid it. Church, in particular, is awful.

I've heard others have visceral reactions to Easter but I've never felt the same level of dread then.
 
Posted by Stejjie (# 13941) on :
 
Pop/rock concerts don't work on the radio: you don't get the feeling of "being there", so you too often end up with rubbish sound quality and what sound like poor cover versions of the songs sung by tribute acts.
 
Posted by mr cheesy (# 3330) on :
 
Ice hockey is not a televisual sport.
 
Posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider (# 76) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by balaam:
quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
I like the Star Wars prequels. Even Phantom Menace.

Especially Jar-Jar Binks. Anyone who has taken kids along and seen their reaction to Binks will see that the character works, It is a family film, get over it.
I did. They didn't like him.
 
Posted by Enoch (# 14322) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by mr cheesy:
Ice hockey is not a televisual sport.

Nor is tennis.

I don't like Christmas that much either. I like the religious part of it a lot, but find the social pressures it imposes oppressive.
 
Posted by Brenda Clough (# 18061) on :
 
No, Christmas is a horrible slog, totally co-opted by the shops. My mailbox fills with catalogs.
 
Posted by Pigwidgeon (# 10192) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Enoch:
quote:
Originally posted by mr cheesy:
Ice hockey is not a televisual sport.

Nor is tennis.

Nor golf. But I have difficulty thinking of golf as a sport at all.
 
Posted by Paul. (# 37) on :
 
UO: this thread is just TICTH re-badged for Heaven.
 
Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by balaam:
quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
I like the Star Wars prequels. Even Phantom Menace.

Especially Jar-Jar Binks. Anyone who has taken kids along and seen their reaction to Binks will see that the character works, It is a family film, get over it.
Get the family together for poorly written film filled with wooden characters and casual racism!
Yeah!
 
Posted by Amanda B. Reckondwythe (# 5521) on :
 
Jabba the Hutt is my favorite character -- especially because he could pass as the twin of my late Aunt Elizabeth, whom we all despised.
 
Posted by Dark Knight (# 9415) on :
 
I intensely dislike the band Tame Impala. Derivative psychadelia masquerading as substantive creative work. As they are from my hometown, people I confess this to around here look upon me as irredeemable moral failure.
 
Posted by mousethief (# 953) on :
 
If it makes you feel any better, I've never heard of them.
 
Posted by Aravis (# 13824) on :
 
I'm not trying to reopen the discussion, but just for the record, I was born in Wales (to English parents) and have lived there for over 40 years altogether (9 years in various parts of England). I speak a small amount of Welsh and understand a reasonable amount, written and spoken. I don't identify myself as a Welsh speaker as I'm not fluent and have no actual qualifications in it. I know enough to explain the basic mutations, wince at errors on road signs, and read out a Bible passage in Welsh with expression.
I do very strongly object to non-Welsh speakers in Wales being dismissed as "monoglots". I'm only fluent in English and French, but I know many people in Wales who are fluent in several languages - just not Welsh. (For example, fluency in Somali, Arabic, English and a little French or Swedish is actually quite a common combination in the Cardiff Bay Area.)
 
Posted by Dark Knight (# 9415) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
If it makes you feel any better, I've never heard of them.

It does. A little.
Certainly makes me feel better than reopening this Welsh business.
 
Posted by Sparrow (# 2458) on :
 
Ferrero Rocher chocolates are the excrement of Satan.
 
Posted by L'organist (# 17338) on :
 
... As is Milky Bar
 
Posted by Schroedinger's cat (# 64) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Dark Knight:
I intensely dislike the band Tame Impala. Derivative psychadelia masquerading as substantive creative work. As they are from my hometown, people I confess this to around here look upon me as irredeemable moral failure.

I don't mind them, but they are not as exciting as I feel they should be.

Musical taste is, of course, very subjective.

Except Bruno Mars, who is excerable.
 
Posted by balaam (# 4543) on :
 
So we have a consensus. Tame Impala are tame. Great insight there as there is no clue in the name.
 
Posted by Leaf (# 14169) on :
 
Santa Baby is a hilariously wonderful Christmas song, a sly sendup of the greed and commercialism afflicting the season and making fun of creepy infantilized sexuality. My favourite version is by Madonna. Everyone else thinks it is room-clearingly awful but I will happily listen to it on Repeat.

In every other respect my musical taste is quite orthodox. Oh wait, except for Nickelback, whom I also like. I play the profanity filled Burn it to the Ground to get started on housework.
 
Posted by Nick Tamen (# 15164) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Leaf:
Santa Baby is a hilariously wonderful Christmas song, a sly sendup of the greed and commercialism afflicting the season and making fun of creepy infantilized sexuality. My favourite version is by Madonna. Everyone else thinks it is room-clearingly awful but I will happily listen to it on Repeat.

I’m with you on the first part. But give me Eartha Kitt’s version any day.
 
Posted by georgiaboy (# 11294) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Leaf:
Santa Baby is a hilariously wonderful Christmas song, a sly sendup of the greed and commercialism afflicting the season and making fun of creepy infantilized sexuality. My favourite version is by Madonna. .

Always thought the song just too stupid until I happened on to the version by the Gay Men's Chorus of Los Angeles (should be still available on YouTube). Tod Macofsky's (sp?) singing and dancing and over-the-top mugging made a whole new deal of this chestnut.
Highly Recommended.
 
Posted by jacobsen (# 14998) on :
 
Black pudding.
[Mad] [Projectile]
 
Posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider (# 76) on :
 
UO of the day - 'God Save The Queen' should not be sung at Remembrance services, or indeed any church service.

UO2 - we need a new inclusive non-Monarchist National Anthem.
 
Posted by Stejjie (# 13941) on :
 
Given the reaction I got on Facebook for sharing this, it appears to be an unpopular opinion: Steve “love the show” Wright (the BBC Radio 2 DJ) is at least tolerable on his afternoon show (as opposed to terrible, as most of my Facebook friends seem to think).

Also, the Radio 2 breakfast show is infinitely better when Chris Evans is off and Sara Cox is standing in for him.

There. I said it.
 
Posted by Baptist Trainfan (# 15128) on :
 
I wouldn't know. Snob that I am, I only listen to R3 and R4.
 
Posted by mr cheesy (# 3330) on :
 
UO: the BBC is almost all totally crap. I've not watched much/any BBC for a year and haven't felt like I've missed anything. I've mostly turned off R4 and when I have it on it just makes me angry.

The idea that the British have the world's best TV and radio because of the BBC (excepting a few individual programmes which may be up there with the best in the world) is utterly busted.
 
Posted by Jemima the 9th (# 15106) on :
 
Spike Milligan wasn't funny. Nor was Peter Sellers.
 
Posted by L'organist (# 17338) on :
 
Agree on those two - Sellers maybe could raise a smile but that was it.

I'd add to those two: Ben Elton, Ricky Gervais, Frankie Boyle and Michael McIntyre.
 
Posted by Albertus (# 13356) on :
 
Never seen Macintyre. Gervais could be a good comic actor, although with a limited range. Otherwise, agree.
UOs in the other direction: Bob Monkhouse was very good at what he did. Bruce Forsyth was always cringe-making.

[ 08. November 2017, 21:03: Message edited by: Albertus ]
 
Posted by Rossweisse (# 2349) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
...UO2 - we need a new inclusive non-Monarchist National Anthem.

I'd go for "Jerusalem" (if I had any say in it), but that would probably UO3.

quote:
Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:
I wouldn't know. Snob that I am, I only listen to R3 and R4.

BBC Radio 3 is one of the stations I listen to via iPod. I love much of the programming, but time zones can be a problem.

(Edited to respond to BT.)

[ 08. November 2017, 22:03: Message edited by: Rossweisse ]
 
Posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider (# 76) on :
 
I like Jerusalem but that only works for England.
 
Posted by Schroedinger's cat (# 64) on :
 
Milligan was surreal, that was his strength. I think he was game changing, in that he made the surreal acceptable. But it only works for some.

Ben Elton - I always remember him from his first breakthrough on TV, where he was brilliant. I am not sure he has ever quite reached those heights again.

Having said that, I do enjoy his shows. There is a certain predictability about them, but it makes for comforting comedy. Which, I am sure, he would be mortified to hear.
 
Posted by la vie en rouge (# 10688) on :
 
Ben Elton was one of the co-writers of Blackadder, which is one of the funniest things ever imagined by a human being.

OTOH, I never got the appeal of Only Fools and Horses at all.
 
Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 
A heck of a lot of Monty Python's Flying Circus was self-indulgent crap.
 
Posted by betjemaniac (# 17618) on :
 
until there was a clear idea of what to do next, which had popular support, all the hereditaries should have been left in the Lords.

All the current (post 1997) reforms have achieved is the replacement of people who shouldn't have been there but by and large took it seriously and knew what they were doing, with people who just shouldn't be there.

[ 09. November 2017, 09:30: Message edited by: betjemaniac ]
 
Posted by Sipech (# 16870) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by la vie en rouge:
Ben Elton was one of the co-writers of Blackadder, which is one of the funniest things ever imagined by a human being.

As was Richard Curtis. Yet he went on to make Love, Actually which is an abominable excuse for either a romance or a comedy, let alone a romantic comedy.
 
Posted by Jemima the 9th (# 15106) on :
 
Though not quite as bad as Notting Hill. [Projectile]
 
Posted by Jemima the 9th (# 15106) on :
 
Actually (ho ho) much as a lot of Love, Actually is bloody awful, 3 things about it are great. 1. Emma Thompson's "What would you do in my situation?" to Alan Rickman. Sob. 2. Hugh Grant dancing round Number 10 to the Pointer Sisters. 3. "Third lobster." It's used in our house every time there's a school play now.
 
Posted by betjemaniac (# 17618) on :
 
Michael Gove was great at Justice, and is great at Defra. Education was the wrong fit for him because it was too personal for him.

I still wouldn't vote for him.
 
Posted by Enoch (# 14322) on :
 
The person t government are a collection of incompetent idiots who don't know what they're doing - O no, everybody thinks that.

OK, try again. The opposition front bench are much the same, and it's a delusion to think they'd do any better.

OK, try a third time - there are some people in the Commons who are quite able, but none of them are allowed anywhere near the front benches on either side of the house.
 
Posted by Kitten (# 1179) on :
 
I found the first series of Blackadder was the funniest and they got steadily un-funnier as they went on. I found the forth series embarrassingly unfunny.

I quite like Love Actually, with the possible exception of the Kris Marshall bits
 
Posted by Schroedinger's cat (# 64) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by betjemaniac:
until there was a clear idea of what to do next, which had popular support, all the hereditaries should have been left in the Lords.

All the current (post 1997) reforms have achieved is the replacement of people who shouldn't have been there but by and large took it seriously and knew what they were doing, with people who just shouldn't be there.

I sort of agree with you. I actually think the Lords should be reformed, but that the hereditary Lords should get a place still. There is something really important in a house that can look for the long-term, not just until their next election.

I also think that Lords who do not attend regularly (and especially those who live argely outside the UK) should lose their seat. It should be seen as an important responsibility for our nation.
 
Posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider (# 76) on :
 
My clearly UO of the day is that the idea of someone having a seat in parliament because their father did is stark staring bonkers.

[ 09. November 2017, 16:26: Message edited by: Karl: Liberal Backslider ]
 
Posted by Albertus (# 13356) on :
 
But nobody does, now.
 
Posted by L'organist (# 17338) on :
 
Agree. But Jeremy Corbyn has made a start on reducing their number with his suspension of David Prescott; still has Stephen Kinnock, Hilary Benn, Rachel Reeves, etc, etc, etc. In fact there are far more Labour MP children of MPs than Conservative.
 
Posted by Brenda Clough (# 18061) on :
 
I get nothing out of Dr. Who. Nor Star Trek. And I am about to add Star Wars to the pile.
 
Posted by Albertus (# 13356) on :
 
I have never seen Star Wars, and have never particularly wanted to, even (IIRC) when it first came out.
 
Posted by Ian Climacus (# 944) on :
 
I don't think Robin Williams was a good actor, or at all funny. Couldn't stand Dead Poet's Society; kept watching in the hope it got better but he annoyed me.
 
Posted by Mr Clingford (# 7961) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by mr cheesy:
UO: the BBC is almost all totally crap. I've not watched much/any BBC for a year and haven't felt like I've missed anything. I've mostly turned off R4 and when I have it on it just makes me angry.

The idea that the British have the world's best TV and radio because of the BBC (excepting a few individual programmes which may be up there with the best in the world) is utterly busted.

My subjective opinion, of course, but I think you're wrong.

Off the top of my head, I have enjoyed immensely both W1A and Detectorists.
 
Posted by balaam (# 4543) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
A heck of a lot of Monty Python's Flying Circus was self-indulgent crap.

Most of it I'd say. There were whole episodes of crud. But when they got it right it was pure brilliance.
 
Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:
Agree. But Jeremy Corbyn has made a start on reducing their number with his suspension of David Prescott; still has Stephen Kinnock, Hilary Benn, Rachel Reeves, etc, etc, etc. In fact there are far more Labour MP children of MPs than Conservative.

AFAIK they were all elected. Not like far too many Tories who are wearing the same robes their fathers and possibly their ancestors back to Charles II wore.
 
Posted by Stejjie (# 13941) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Mr Clingford:
quote:
Originally posted by mr cheesy:
UO: the BBC is almost all totally crap. I've not watched much/any BBC for a year and haven't felt like I've missed anything. I've mostly turned off R4 and when I have it on it just makes me angry.

The idea that the British have the world's best TV and radio because of the BBC (excepting a few individual programmes which may be up there with the best in the world) is utterly busted.

My subjective opinion, of course, but I think you're wrong.

Off the top of my head, I have enjoyed immensely both W1A and Detectorists.

And as a dad who has to put up with a lot of kids' TV being on in the house, I would say that the BBC's children's output (both CBBC and CBeebies) is second-to-none, in terms of quality and range of programs.

<old fogey mode>
Of course, it wasn't as good as when I was young, but that goes without saying... [Big Grin]
</old fogey mode>
 
Posted by Nick Tamen (# 15164) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Stejjie:
And as a dad who has to put up with a lot of kids' TV being on in the house, I would say that the BBC's children's output (both CBBC and CBeebies) is second-to-none, in terms of quality and range of programs.

Having seen the bizarre horror that is “Teletubbies,” I’m struggling with this assertion.
 
Posted by cliffdweller (# 13338) on :
 
Bah, such tame "unpopular opinions". Where is the courage, the boldness? I'm going to go really out on a limb and throw a landline:

I really miss singing Shine Jesus Shine and, given a supportive environment, would still sing it full-on with hands raised and eyes closed like the not-so-closeted Pentecostal I am.

So there. Let the de-friending commence.
 
Posted by mr cheesy (# 3330) on :
 
TEDtalks are shit. Over-short presentations by egoists designed simply to get them to buy their stupid book or whatever.

There are hundreds of TEDtalks, only a handful are any good.
 
Posted by Dark Knight (# 9415) on :
 
Couldn't agree more, Cheezle.

'Thought leaders' are the new wankers.
 
Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by mr cheesy:
TEDtalks are shit. Over-short presentations by egoists designed simply to get them to buy their stupid book or whatever.

There are hundreds of TEDtalks, only a handful are any good.

Not sure this counts as a UO.
 
Posted by Leaf (# 14169) on :
 
IMUO: Buxtehude sux.
 
Posted by Schroedinger's cat (# 64) on :
 
OK, lets try UO of cliffdwellers level:

I wish I could still be an evangelical. The certainty, the clarity of just believing what I was told, the knowledge of having your own people - that was brilliant, and I miss it.

These days I am lonely, uncertain, always struggling. It is utter shit.
 
Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on :
 
You're actually better off without it.

Another UO....

IJ
 
Posted by Sparrow (# 2458) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Ian Climacus:
I don't think Robin Williams was a good actor, or at all funny. Couldn't stand Dead Poet's Society; kept watching in the hope it got better but he annoyed me.

I couldn't stand him either. Nor Bruce Forsyth as someone said further back.
 
Posted by W Hyatt (# 14250) on :
 
But have you seen Williams do creepy characters in "One Hour Photo" and "Insomnia?"
 
Posted by Albertus (# 13356) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:
Agree. But Jeremy Corbyn has made a start on reducing their number with his suspension of David Prescott; still has Stephen Kinnock, Hilary Benn, Rachel Reeves, etc, etc, etc. In fact there are far more Labour MP children of MPs than Conservative.

AFAIK they were all elected. Not like far too many Tories who are wearing the same robes their fathers and possibly their ancestors back to Charles II wore.
49 Tories among the hereditaries elected by their fellows, of whom about a third are only the second or third of the title. Nobody (except I think the Duke of Norfolk and the Marquess of Cholmondley, who hold hereditary offices that have a Lords seat) now has an inherited seat in the Lords. Apart from the Bishops, they've all either been appointed or elected (admittedly by a very select electorate of other hereditary peers) in their own right. Been like that for nearly 20 years now.

[ 10. November 2017, 20:14: Message edited by: Albertus ]
 
Posted by Paul. (# 37) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Ian Climacus:
I don't think Robin Williams was a good actor, or at all funny. Couldn't stand Dead Poet's Society; kept watching in the hope it got better but he annoyed me.

Humour is notoriously subjective so I won't argue that point. But DPS isn't supposed to be funny and the parts where Williams relies on his stand-up schtick are IMO the weak points of an otherwise decent movie.
 
Posted by Paul. (# 37) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
I wish I could still be an evangelical. The certainty, the clarity of just believing what I was told, the knowledge of having your own people - that was brilliant, and I miss it.

I know what you mean. They are good at creating a sense of belonging. Of course it only works if you can sign up to what everyone else believes. When I could I felt really at home, later when I couldn't I always felt at the fringes.

quote:
These days I am lonely, uncertain, always struggling. It is utter shit.
Hopefully it'll get better. It did for me. It took 3 years of trying to fit myself back into an evo mould to realise I really wasn't one any more and was able to walk away (a second time) without animosity or regret.
 
Posted by Anselmina (# 3032) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
OK, lets try UO of cliffdwellers level:

I wish I could still be an evangelical. The certainty, the clarity of just believing what I was told, the knowledge of having your own people - that was brilliant, and I miss it.

These days I am lonely, uncertain, always struggling. It is utter shit.

I can relate to that, really and truly.

But I think, you know, I'd rather have an honest and truthful loneliness and uncertainty; than a deliberately ignorant contentment with a delusion, based on superficiality.

I'm NOT saying that others who are happy with their evangelicalism have made this choice. Not at all. I'm just saying for ME, this would have been the choice.

And, as it happens, I find that any loneliness, or sense of bereavement for what was etc, is actually part of an ongoing and fruitful struggle, where God can inhabit the weakness in me; where before the 'strength' of a less tested belief would have stymied those opportunities for growth and deepening.

But again, just my experience.
 
Posted by Ian Climacus (# 944) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Paul.:
Humour is notoriously subjective so I won't argue that point. But DPS isn't supposed to be funny and the parts where Williams relies on his stand-up schtick are IMO the weak points of an otherwise decent movie.

Sorry, I wasn't meaning to link humour and DPS. I assumed it was serious, and took it as such. Still didn't care for it.
 
Posted by LutheranChik (# 9826) on :
 
Unpopular opinion: I enjoyed confirmation class, and waa rather depressed after I leas confirmed.
 
Posted by ThunderBunk (# 15579) on :
 
Obsessive decluttering is at least as disordered and harmful as obsessive cluttering.
 
Posted by Schroedinger's cat (# 64) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by ThunderBunk:
Obsessive decluttering is at least as disordered and harmful as obsessive cluttering.

Any obsessive behaviour is dangerous. Some is socially acceptable, some isn't.
 
Posted by georgiaboy (# 11294) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Leaf:
IMUO: Buxtehude sux.

Yes, Yes! Yes!! x 100
 
Posted by Enoch (# 14322) on :
 
Of people who claim to be comedians, I find Jim Carrey, as of Pet Detective and Bruce Almighty so completely unfunny that I find it impossible to imagine even how that could be a UO.
 
Posted by Ian Climacus (# 944) on :
 
Oh, yes, Jim. Beloved of my friends. Did you see <X>? No. You have to. I'll pass.

quote:
Originally posted by georgiaboy:
quote:
Originally posted by Leaf:
IMUO: Buxtehude sux.

Yes, Yes! Yes!! x 100
I don't recall seeing him on any programmes or order of service...(surely I'd remember that name!) I guess I may be thankful.

[ 11. November 2017, 22:44: Message edited by: Ian Climacus ]
 
Posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider (# 76) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Enoch:
Of people who claim to be comedians, I find Jim Carrey, as of Pet Detective and Bruce Almighty so completely unfunny that I find it impossible to imagine even how that could be a UO.

He's shite, but a hundred times funnier than Eddie Murphy.

UO of the day - Friends was about as funny as Jim Carrey doing Eddie Murphy's material. Through Stephen Hawking's voice generator.

[ 11. November 2017, 23:14: Message edited by: Karl: Liberal Backslider ]
 
Posted by Enoch (# 14322) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
quote:
Originally posted by Enoch:
Of people who claim to be comedians, I find Jim Carrey, as of Pet Detective and Bruce Almighty so completely unfunny that I find it impossible to imagine even how that could be a UO.

He's shite, but a hundred times funnier than Eddie Murphy.

UO of the day - Friends was about as funny as Jim Carrey doing Eddie Murphy's material. Through Stephen Hawking's voice generator.

Alas, I can't comment on Eddie Murphy as I've never seen him in action. The only reason I've seen Jim Carrey is that I was expected to watch a film of his as background material for a course I was doing. I have seen the occasional episode of Friends when other people were watching it and I agree that it was dire. Both as a Soap and as comedy, even Eastenders is better.
 
Posted by LutheranChik (# 9826) on :
 
Adam Sandler -- another unfunny comedian.
 
Posted by mousethief (# 953) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by LutheranChik:
Adam Sandler -- another unfunny comedian.

Oh good, so it's not just me. Every time I see him I want to punch his face.
 
Posted by jedijudy (# 333) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by georgiaboy:
quote:
Originally posted by Leaf:
IMUO: Buxtehude sux.

Yes, Yes! Yes!! x 100
Yeah, but my man, JSBach, walked 250 miles to experience him in person. My UO, Bach is much more fun to play than Buxtehude.
 
Posted by WatchingGodWork (# 18866) on :
 
Coffee tastes bitter (unless buried under a load of sugar or chocolate) and smells vile.

Most beer drinkers are slobs.

Very few pastors truly pastor.
 
Posted by Jemima the 9th (# 15106) on :
 
Dancing Queen is a terrible song.
 
Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 
Led Zeppelin's "Stairway to Heaven" is worse. And it's longer. And it gets played far too often.

Worse than "Imagine", IMHO.
 
Posted by Stercus Tauri (# 16668) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by WatchingGodWork:
Coffee tastes bitter (unless buried under a load of sugar or chocolate) and smells vile.

Most beer drinkers are slobs.

Very few pastors truly pastor.

If you hadn't given your location, I would have been certain that I know you; it must be your twin who sits two pews in front of us, and we've already discussed my vices. There are many more.
 
Posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider (# 76) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
Led Zeppelin's "Stairway to Heaven" is worse. And it's longer. And it gets played far too often.

Worse than "Imagine", IMHO.

That's not an UO. It's just
wrong!
 
Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
Led Zeppelin's "Stairway to Heaven" is worse. And it's longer. And it gets played far too often.

Worse than "Imagine", IMHO.

That's not an UO. It's just
wrong!

Yes, it is most wrong. They both suck, but Imagine is far worse.
 
Posted by Albertus (# 13356) on :
 
Oh, Imagine is an absolute stinker. Good litmus test: people who think its profound and meaningful are going to be wrong about a lot of other things too- facile secular head-in-sand stuff.
 
Posted by Schroedinger's cat (# 64) on :
 
Imagine sucks.

Stairway to Heaven is a perfect example of indulgent, OTT rock. Which I happen to love. I don't make any claims for it being deep and meaningful, but it is good to rock out to.
 
Posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider (# 76) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Albertus:
Oh, Imagine is an absolute stinker. Good litmus test: people who think its profound and meaningful are going to be wrong about a lot of other things too- facile secular head-in-sand stuff.

Profound? No. Innocently appealing, yes. There are very good discussions, methinks, to be had on why Lennon's dream would ultimately fail. Despite its wide-eyed innocence, it deserves better than a sort of Lieutenant George response:

George: Now, now, now, look here, you just stop that conchy talk right now,
Private. It's, it's absurd, it's Bolshevism, and it wouldn't work,
anyway.

Baldrick: Why not, sir?

George: "Why not?" Well, what do you mean? "Why wouldn't it work?" It--
It wouldn't work, Private-- It wouldn't work because, there, well,
now, you just get on with polishing those boots, all right? and let's
have a little bit less of that lip!
 
Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
Imagine sucks.

Stairway to Heaven is a perfect example of indulgent, OTT rock. Which I happen to love. I don't make any claims for it being deep and meaningful, but it is good to rock out to.

It very nearly ruins the best rock album ever. Eight tracks, seven great bluesy rock tracks and one bad ballad.
 
Posted by Hugal (# 2734) on :
 
Grapefruit is horrible.Quorn May be good for you but tastes like cardboard mixed with water.
 
Posted by magicroundabout (# 18869) on :
 
Well, as a complete newbie to the Ship, this is the BEST conversation.


My unpopular opinions:

1. It's not that I don't like strawberries, but gosh they're over-rated. People sing and dance about them as this amazing thing and the truth is: they're just another fruit!
2. Grapefruits, however - whoever hates them I'm totally with you. How can anyone eat them.
3. And goats cheese - I simply don't understand why anyone would eat a food that tastes, frankly, of vomit.
4. Politicians are allowed to change their minds. Really. We all learn as we go along. I think they should be allowed to u-turn for the good of the country without being sacked. Football managers (I hate football, but...) should also be able to lose a few games without being sacked.
5. This thread it "the BEST". I know this will be unpopular because I only read page 1 and 11 of this thread, and two other threads, before declaring this fact.

Enjoy yourselves.
 
Posted by magicroundabout (# 18869) on :
 
Oh, and (remembering to add this when I see my username in screen):

6. The actual Magic Roundabout in my home town is a misunderstood and under-rated piece of traffic management genius. Every town should have (at least) one.
 
Posted by jedijudy (# 333) on :
 
Welcome, magicroundabout! I'm so glad you have posted in Heaven! It's a great place to get your feet wet here on the Ship.

If you'd like, you can post on the welcome thread in All Saints where you will be sure to receive a warm welcome.

jedijudy
One of the Helpful Heaven Hosts

 
Posted by Sighthound (# 15185) on :
 
UO - most of what people call "patriotism" or "nationalism" is utter bunk and just an excuse to hate people who weren't born on this particular rock. I am increasingly sick of people who wrap themselves in the flag, but by their real-world actions make it abundantly clear that they don't give a monkeys for this country or its people.
 
Posted by Albertus (# 13356) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
quote:
Originally posted by Albertus:
Oh, Imagine is an absolute stinker. Good litmus test: people who think its profound and meaningful are going to be wrong about a lot of other things too- facile secular head-in-sand stuff.

Profound? No. Innocently appealing, yes. There are very good discussions, methinks, to be had on why Lennon's dream would ultimately fail. Despite its wide-eyed innocence, it deserves better than a sort of Lieutenant George response:

George: Now, now, now, look here, you just stop that conchy talk right now,
Private. It's, it's absurd, it's Bolshevism, and it wouldn't work,
anyway.

Baldrick: Why not, sir?

George: "Why not?" Well, what do you mean? "Why wouldn't it work?" It--
It wouldn't work, Private-- It wouldn't work because, there, well,
now, you just get on with polishing those boots, all right? and let's
have a little bit less of that lip!

Oh, I think I could take it to bits properly, but haven't got the time, space, or inclination to do it now.
 
Posted by Schroedinger's cat (# 64) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by magicroundabout:
Oh, and (remembering to add this when I see my username in screen):

6. The actual Magic Roundabout in my home town is a misunderstood and under-rated piece of traffic management genius. Every town should have (at least) one.

The other Magic Roundabout in Hemel Hempstead. I had to use it every day. It is back entrance to Hell, especially when dark and wet, when you cannot see any of the road markings.
 
Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
quote:
Originally posted by magicroundabout:
Oh, and (remembering to add this when I see my username in screen):

6. The actual Magic Roundabout in my home town is a misunderstood and under-rated piece of traffic management genius. Every town should have (at least) one.

The other Magic Roundabout in Hemel Hempstead. I had to use it every day. It is back entrance to Hell, especially when dark and wet, when you cannot see any of the road markings.
The roundabout is OK. Hemel Hempstead is the problem.
 
Posted by Albertus (# 13356) on :
 
The Beatles were much better in the early days- edgy, cocky, out to take on the world, working-class grammar-school sharp- than they were in their rather boring and disconnected long-haired, paisley-wearing, hippyish late period.
 
Posted by la vie en rouge (# 10688) on :
 
I don’t much like the Beatles in any of their incarnations and think most of their songs are highly overrated.
 
Posted by Sighthound (# 15185) on :
 
I have come to believe that "democracy" is vastly overrated. People should have to demonstrate they are capable of independent thought before getting a vote. At the least there should be a "senate" elected in this way to balance the dire impact of populism.
 
Posted by mr cheesy (# 3330) on :
 
Unpopular thought of the day: just because you've written a history linking a 19 century movement to a 10 century movement does not actually mean that the two things are actually linked in any way whatsoever.

Everyone else seems to think it is an interesting, edgy and important contribution. I think it is likely complete bollocks.
 
Posted by Curiosity killed ... (# 11770) on :
 
The programme notes for Coriolanus discuss the difficulties of democracy - and that the people do not always benefit getting what they ask for. The idea of democracy having *issues* is as old as democracy itself.
 
Posted by Schroedinger's cat (# 64) on :
 
A benign dictatorship is far better than a broken pseudo-democracy (as we have in the UK and the US).

Of course, that is really difficult to ensure. A good democracy can work, but the adversarial one doesn't. That is why I support a proportional voting system, because that would require parties to work together long term, not just chuck then a billion quid to not vote them out.

My UO - Michael Gove is actually not doing a bad job now.
 
Posted by Albertus (# 13356) on :
 
My variant on that: it's more important for a government to be competent and to secure a reasonable degree of peace and prosperity than it is for it to be democratic.
 
Posted by cliffdweller (# 13338) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Albertus:
My variant on that: it's more important for a government to be competent and to secure a reasonable degree of peace and prosperity than it is for it to be democratic.

Respectfully, spoken with privilege. Who decides who exactly gets to enjoy that "reasonable degree of peace and prosperity"?
 
Posted by Albertus (# 13356) on :
 
Does it matter who gets to decide, so long as the people as a whole or at least most of them have or have a viable prospect of an ability to get on with your life and have enough to eat and somewhere fairly decent to live and not be avoidably exposed to threats of violence (from the state as well as from others) and, mostly, to have a reasonable amount of property (the stuff you need plus modest luxuries)and know that it will be protected by the state. That sort of thing. And nobody is structurally excluded from this because of race or religion and so on.

[ 15. November 2017, 20:27: Message edited by: Albertus ]
 
Posted by mousethief (# 953) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Albertus:
Does it matter who gets to decide, so long as the people as a whole or at least most of them have or have a viable prospect of an ability to get on with your life and have enough to eat and somewhere fairly decent to live and not be avoidably exposed to threats of violence (from the state as well as from others) and, mostly, to have a reasonable amount of property (the stuff you need plus modest luxuries)and know that it will be protected by the state. That sort of thing. And nobody is structurally excluded from this because of race or religion and so on.

Translation: Fuck the poor, especially those transgenerationally so. As long as most of us get along, they can go hang.
 
Posted by Schroedinger's cat (# 64) on :
 
I would probably say that the government needs to enforce doing something for the poor and needy, who cannot help themselves. Whereas those who can look help themselves can get on and do that.

And, fundamentally, a government should not be beholden to anyone. So if they want to say "The Dully Wail is a disgrace and must stop production", they can. As long as it is not because of personal criticism or disagreement.

Similarly, a government needs to be able to say "We will have gun regulation". And enforce it. End of.
 
Posted by Jane R (# 331) on :
 
quote:
Who decides who exactly gets to enjoy that "reasonable degree of peace and prosperity"?

...and who decides what is 'reasonable'? The meaning of 'modest luxury', for example, will vary depending on your income.

[ 16. November 2017, 08:15: Message edited by: Jane R ]
 
Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Albertus:
My variant on that: it's more important for a government to be competent and to secure a reasonable degree of peace and prosperity than it is for it to be democratic.

We get a vote every four or five years. Corporations and financial institutions bully governments 24/7 without the need for voting. These buggers are supposed to serve us but they don't.

Prosperity my arse.
 
Posted by Enoch (# 14322) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
We get a vote every four or five years. Corporations and financial institutions bully governments 24/7 without the need for voting. These buggers are supposed to serve us but they don't. ...

Since when has that been an unpopular opinion, one not to be confessed to in polite society?
 
Posted by jedijudy (# 333) on :
 
Looks at the top of the page. Yep, we're still in Heaven. I was afraid we had moved to Purgatory.

OK, we're expressing Unpopular Opinions, not debating them and government issues!!

jedijudy
Heaven Host with a slightly frayed nerve


Back to UOs...Mr. Rogers used to scare me.
 
Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by jedijudy:
Looks at the top of the page. Yep, we're still in Heaven. I was afraid we had moved to Purgatory.

OK, we're expressing Unpopular Opinions, not debating them and government issues!!

jedijudy
Heaven Host with a slightly frayed nerve


Back to UOs...Mr. Rogers used to scare me.

My apologies. I got carried away on my faithful hobbyhorse.
 
Posted by Jane R (# 331) on :
 
And mine.

Getting back to unpopular opinions... I don't like vampires and cannot understand the popularity of vampire romance. Who wants to kiss a corpse?! And if the spectacle of a 32-year old man propositioning a teenager is repulsive, what shall we say to the 200-year-old vampire who hangs round the local high school trying to get a girlfriend? Yes, Angel, I am looking at YOU.

[ 16. November 2017, 16:35: Message edited by: Jane R ]
 
Posted by Brenda Clough (# 18061) on :
 
Agree. Vampires, werewolves, all boring and loathsome.
 
Posted by jedijudy (# 333) on :
 
Apologies accepted! Many thanks! [Big Grin]

Another UO of mine; I can't abide the scent of Stargazer Lilies.
 
Posted by ThunderBunk (# 15579) on :
 
Stargazer lilies are the imprint of Satan's anus upon the world.
 
Posted by Pigwidgeon (# 10192) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by jedijudy:
I can't abide the scent of Stargazer Lilies.

They are absolutely beautiful, and I don't mind the scent. But they are one of the worst allergens. I cannot be in the same room as them.
 
Posted by jacobsen (# 14998) on :
 
Lilies in general have stamens whose powder(?) stains clothing indelibly. Why, oh Lord?

Thinks: this could have gone on another thread....
 
Posted by la vie en rouge (# 10688) on :
 
A good florist should cut the stainy bits out to stop them dropping on your tablecloth. But most of them don’t.
 
Posted by Pigwidgeon (# 10192) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by la vie en rouge:
A good florist should cut the stainy bits out to stop them dropping on your tablecloth. But most of them don’t.

Our flower person at church always removes the anthers from our Easter lilies because she knows that the pollen causes problems for many of us. But the next day (i.e., Easter) more buds have opened, and those anthers are still full of pollen. And the next day, and the next day...

(I once read a murder mystery -- don't remember the title or author -- where the murderer killed a clergyman by surrounding the pulpit with lilies when he was preaching at a funeral. She knew he had a severe lily allergy and I think maybe some other complications.)
 


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