Thread: Are tattoos unwise? Board: Purgatory / Ship of Fools.


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Posted by no prophet's flag is set so... (# 15560) on :
 
I took my 90 year old father to a dermatologist this week. As the doc carved off 11 basal cell carcinomas, with 4questionable for squamous cell, there was about an hour of talk. Basal cell don't spread. Squamous cell carcinoma can metastisize. Hope it is basal.

The 60ish year old doc talked about the great increase in body area covered in tattoos over the 35 years of practice (after we talked about staying out of the sun). He talked about mercury, cadmium, lead and heavy metals generally, all in tattoo inks. No-one knows exactly the effects of the breakdown over time of the inks and the migration of these toxic metals, and other chemicals into the lymphatic system. People are getting very large body areas covered with tattoos. Laser removal means that the particles are released at once into lymph nodes. No one also knows the effect of sun, metabolism, and ageing on so called safe inks. Organic molecules are formed, not part of the original inks. The doc suspects cancer risks.

I find the tattoo phenomenom hard to understand. People talk of individuality but they are following a trend. It is as individual as having an Iphone and expressing indivduality with a differnt colour of case. That's conformity. It all seems a little sad to me.

Neck and hand tattoos seem very ill advised as they are hard to cover up. I employed a person who we had to require long sleeves and a high collar at work. Small of back tattoos (always on women) seem odd and the colloquial label of "tramp stamp" creates a particularly negative association.

No doubt there are other perspectives. What are they?
 
Posted by Ian Climacus (# 944) on :
 
I personally wouldn't get one. But I'm a wimp.

Haven't societies been tattooing people for a very long time? Not sure of the effects of modern chemicals/metals, if as you say there are issues I think it needs to be more widely known.

I guess individuality comes from getting a "unique" tattoo...though some are clearly in-fashion and oft-repeated.

I personally am not offended by them. Some look quite nice. Those that don't...well, they annoy me as much as mid-riffs showing or young men with their pants half-way down their legs so I can see their undies. I look, think "No", and forget about it once I've walked away. I do not associate tattoos with any indication of a person's behaviour or societal status: they are too ubiquitous for that now I think.
 
Posted by Pigwidgeon (# 10192) on :
 
One of the many reasons* I don't want one is my fickleness. When I was the age of some of the kids getting tattoos today, my interests were very, very different from the interests I have today. They've changed many times over the years and probably will continue to do so.

*Other reasons include not finding them attractive and not understanding why someone would want to do that to their bodies pretty much permanently.
 
Posted by Amanda B. Reckondwythe (# 5521) on :
 
Like with beards, piercings and other forms of bodily adornment, some people look good in them and some don't. The unfortunate truth is that those who don't often think they do.

Personally, I find them offensive in women. I can't look at a tattooed woman. And they're all going to look very funny as little old ladies.
 
Posted by mousethief (# 953) on :
 
People need to think about how their tattoos present to the world. I remember ordering pizza from a (male) waiter who had a tattoo of a scantily clad woman on his forearm. A pretty good sized tattoo, so you could see a lot of detail. And given his own arm hair, the woman had a rather hirsute decolletage. I don't mind women not shaving, but....
 
Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:
He talked about mercury, cadmium, lead and heavy metals generally, all in tattoo inks.

Some tattoo inks have these. One should go to a tattoo artist who knows what is in their inks and is concerned about their customer's long term health.


quote:

I find the tattoo phenomenom hard to understand. People talk of individuality but they are following a trend. It is as individual as having an Iphone and expressing indivduality with a differnt colour of case. That's conformity. It all seems a little sad to me.

Nothing like lumping a massive number of people together.
First, very few people do much of anything out of pure individuality.
Second, while many people are not truly being individualist when they get ink, some are. It is a range from following the crowd to doing what you want, many people are somewhere in the middle.

quote:

Neck and hand tattoos seem very ill advised as they are hard to cover up. I employed a person who we had to require long sleeves and a high collar at work. Small of back tattoos (always on women) seem odd and the colloquial label of "tramp stamp" creates a particularly negative association.

Kings have had ink. Like anything else, fashion is temporal. High heels were initially a masculine fashion item.
 
Posted by simontoad (# 18096) on :
 
I don't like tattoos or piercings.

My wife got one on a whim when she accompanied a friend to a tattoo artist. Her friend wimped out at first, as I recall, so my wife got a little butterfly or something on her shoulder. This was many years ago and both the tattoo and my eyesight have seen better days. It has had zero impact on our relationship.

I don't like tattoos or piercings.

My wife has two pierced ears. I often buy her earrings as gifts. I have never bought her a nose ring.

I don't like tattoos or piercings.

Recently, a woman I support wanted to buy a beautiful dress. The salesperson wanted to give her some bling to go with it, but she only had earrings for pierced ears. I wondered whether this was because the shop primarily catered for Goths.

[ 27. January 2017, 04:12: Message edited by: simontoad ]
 
Posted by Lamb Chopped (# 5528) on :
 
No, in my experience it's almost unheard of to find clip-on earrings for sale. (Having tried my grandmother's, I can guess why. Ouch.)

I don't care one way or another about tattoos or piercings, though if I've got to look at one, I'd just as soon it not make me go "Ugh." I mean, snakes coming out of skulls, or misspelled words, or just plain crap work...
 
Posted by Leorning Cniht (# 17564) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
People need to think about how their tattoos present to the world.

Oh, yeah. And there's a double standard here. Go into some family activity with a shirt bearing a picture of a naked woman, and you'll be asked to leave. I've never seen a guy with a naked woman tattoo asked to leave a swimming pool or water park, but I assume it has happened. It's easy to change a shirt, but had to change your skin.
 
Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
People need to think about how their tattoos present to the world.

OK, most people view tattoos through their own prejudices. Even though I have ink myself, I admit to looking with disdain on some tattoos and their placement. And I don't like that I do.
It is oft said that certain tattoos indicate poor judgement and there might be some truth to that.
But it is also true that the person making the judgement is not objective.
 
Posted by Gee D (# 13815) on :
 
Fashions can change, as can people - but a tattoo is very hard to get rid of.

45 or more years ago, I was doing some volunteer work at a legal centre. A woman came in seeking advice about a tattoo removal. She'd had the tattoo done when she was he, and it had become totally unsuitable. But removals are always difficult and hers had been one of those which had not gone well.
 
Posted by orfeo (# 13878) on :
 
Polynesians have been doing just fine with them for centuries.

NEXT!
 
Posted by Boogie (# 13538) on :
 
I dislike red ink - it just looks like the area is sore imo
 
Posted by Enoch (# 14322) on :
 
I'm surprised nobody has mentioned Leviticus 19:28 yet.

Yes, we may be under grace, not law, but this couldn't be clearer. But then, I don't like tats, and belong to a generation which in general doesn't.

I also don't like piercings anywhere else other than on ladies' ear lobes where they belong. Nor do I like rings or other bits of metalwork stuck through noses, cheeks, lips or whatever. They just look ugly. It speaks of someone who has something unwholesome about her, or his, self image or sense of identity.

A few days ago, I very nearly went up to someone to hint politely to them 'did they realise that they had a dewdrop on their nose?', when I realised it was some odd piece of wire decoration like a small shackle. Why?
 
Posted by Huia (# 3473) on :
 
I have my ears pierced because when I wore earrings all the best ones were for pierced ears (and I totally agree with Lamb Chopped about the pain of clip on ones - the screw on ones were even worse).

I would never have a tattoo due to the pain factor and my indecisiveness, but I am interested in the rise of traditional tattoos among Maori, especially the moko kauae the chin tattoo that was traditionally given to women with high mana (high ranking women).

Huia
 
Posted by rolyn (# 16840) on :
 
Used to have a fellow walk past our workshop with what looked like a large inky splodge on the side of his face. I thought the poor chap had an unpleasant skin condition until the boss said it was a tattoo.

Can't see the sense of it myself but agree body adornment and permanent alterations go back a very long way in human development. Some say it could be a cry for help.
 
Posted by Jane R (# 331) on :
 
Is this a debate thread, or just an opportunity for people who don't like tattoos to express their prejudices?

I wouldn't consider getting one myself. Like Pigwidgeon, I am indecisive and would regret it almost immediately. However if I were 20 or 30 years younger I might think differently. There's been a very abrupt change in Western culture. One of the things which has changed is attitudes towards tattoos.

One might argue that people who get ink are traditionalists. Some of our (European) ancestors wore tattoos - the one mentioned here, for example (Siberian, but definitely Caucasian). It's not just the Polynesians.

[ 27. January 2017, 08:42: Message edited by: Jane R ]
 
Posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider (# 76) on :
 
As long as they aren't designed to be offensive - "White Power", "Fuhrer for ever!", "All Fags Must Die" then I file it quite firmly under None Of My Damned Business.
 
Posted by Huia (# 3473) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by rolyn:
Can't see the sense of it myself but agree body adornment and permanent alterations go back a very long way in human development. Some say it could be a cry for help.

I think that's a generalisation. Certainly the young men I've seen with "fuck" tattooed across their foreheads* are probably alienated from mainstream society, but I don't think you could say that of the men and women whose tattoos reflect their cultural heritage.

*One bloke tattooed his own forehead using a mirror so he could see what he was doing. Unfortunately (for him) he tattooed the mirror image of what he wanted.

Huia
 
Posted by Jane R (# 331) on :
 
I thought this comment (from the article on the Siberian princess, referenced above) was particularly interesting:
quote:
'We can say that most likely there was - and is - one place on the body for everyone to start putting the tattoos on, and it was a left shoulder. I can assume so because all the mummies we found with just one tattoo had it on their left shoulders.

And nowadays this is the same place where people try to put the tattoos on, thousands of years on... the person making a tattoo now is getting closer to his ancestors than he or she may realise.' [Dr Natalia Polosmak]



[ 27. January 2017, 09:01: Message edited by: Jane R ]
 
Posted by Erroneous Monk (# 10858) on :
 
If I could only get slim and firm, and confident I'd stay that way, I'd have a tattoo on a body part covered by my work clothes but not my swimsuit.

I'd opt for an everlasting truth. A Half Man Half Biscuit or Morrissey/The Smiths lyric.

[Smile]
 
Posted by Boogie (# 13538) on :
 
A dear friend of mine has a huge spider on the back of her hand with the legs down her fingers.

I'm just about used to it but it still sometimes gives me a jolt of alarm!
 
Posted by Martin60 (# 368) on :
 
Had my sig tattooed on my right forearm for my 60th. Rob Bell took a picture of it. Verily I have my reward.
 
Posted by wabale (# 18715) on :
 
My wife has a bar code on her left shoulder which translates as her date of birth. She gets lots of laughs and interesting conversations out of it. The other tatoos are more hidden. She also has a couple of quite large fishes somewhere, but I've forgotten exactly where - like a lot of things these days. I need to check up, because I might be subject to a spot quiz - like the ones I get when she comes back from the hairdressers. I have an awful feeling I've left one of her tatoos out … Oh yes, and she has ear piercings. In her case it's partly a cultural thing, the culture of a well-known large town in Essex. Coming from suburban Surrey myself it was a slight culture-shock when she first did it, but, like most things you really can get over it if you make the effort.
 
Posted by Mudfrog (# 8116) on :
 
OK. Hold onto your hats everyone, I have two tattoos - though technically, I've been tattooed three times..

The first one is on the inside of my right bicep so that when my arm is by my side you can't see it. That was done nearly three years ago and it simply says 'I know that my redeemer lives.'
Last year I had it embellished with clouds and a sunrise behind it to symbolise the resurrection.

My second tattoo is a large Queen crest (as in the rock band) It'sThis one but without the word 'Queen' underneath, and is at the top of my left arm.

Somebody above asked about the Leviticus reference, implying a contradiction with Christians having tattoos. Well, that prohibition is in the context of pagan funerary rites and the practice of marking and cutting the skin 'for the dead.' It's not the same thing.

Someobody once told me that because our bodies are the temple of the Holy Spirit we shouldn't be mutilating them. My answer to that would simply be 'circumcision' - God was quite happy about chopping bits off - as was Paul it seems. So that argument doesn't cut it (ahem) I'm afraid.

I just hope that my American evangelical brothers who refuse tattoos on the grounds of not spoiling otherwise unblemished bodies are intact in other areas as well [Smile]

As far as being unwise in the context of health risks - indeed; make sure the artist is properly trained, registered, regulated and hygienic.

...Oh, I forgot. My left ear is pierced too; but at nearly 55 I think the days for sporting a gold dangling cross are long gone now [Biased]

[ 27. January 2017, 11:15: Message edited by: Mudfrog ]
 
Posted by Erroneous Monk (# 10858) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by wabale:
She also has a couple of quite large fishes somewhere, but I've forgotten exactly where - like a lot of things these days.

There is an old Alas Smith and Jones comedy sketch featuring a fishing champion having a tattoo done. In honour of one of his most memorable catches, he has asked the tattoo artist to ink a pair of enormous pollocks on his back...
 
Posted by BroJames (# 9636) on :
 
Sketch here on YouTube
 
Posted by no prophet's flag is set so... (# 15560) on :
 
I forgot to add to the OP that MRI scans may by trouble. Metals in some tattooing fluids can heat up. Burns.

Discrimination on the basis of tattoos? Of course. A startling hand, face or neck tattoo will eliminate you from some employment for sure. You would not work in our reception area. Discreet tattoos that don't unduly attract attention or startle are accepted. Work isn't interested in this sort of self expression. It is about serving other people. Tattoos is not a protected human rights category.

Re facial piercings. They generally don't go well with airbags in case of auto accident.
 
Posted by la vie en rouge (# 10688) on :
 
I put tattooing in the category of “things I personally wouldn’t do but not my business on someone else”. It will have an influence on the way you’re perceived, but so do plenty of other personal styling choices.

However, I do think there is one health issue that isn’t mentioned enough: the so-called “girlie spot” on the lower back. Any young woman who wants to get inked there needs to be thoroughly warned that if she ever wants to have a baby later in life, she will not under any circumstances be able to have an epidural (anaesthetists won’t/can’t inject into a tattoo). I believe this warning is not always given.
 
Posted by Alan Cresswell (# 31) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Ian Climacus:
I do not associate tattoos with any indication of a person's behaviour or societal status: they are too ubiquitous for that now I think.

Which is going to depend very much on where you are in the world. In Japan the government has been making a lot of effort to educate people who might deal regularly with tourists, so they know that tattoos as quite common among westerners, and also for westerners to where possible cover up any large or prominant tattoos. In most of Japan someone with obvious tattoos will have difficulty being served in restaurants or bars and may be asked to leave, or allowed into public onsen (hot spring baths) or ryoken (traditional inns). There may even be problems at chain hotels in out of the way places (it's a bit of a problem turning up at a hotel you've booked at 10pm to be told the manager doesn't want to let you in).

It's not too much of a problem in areas with a long history of lots of tourists (Tokyo or Kyoto, for example). But, other areas of Japan are becoming increasingly popular - and, the young and more adventurous tourists who want to see "the real Japan" away from the tourist traps are also those more likely to have tattoos.

In Japan tattoos are associated with behaviour and social status - tattoos are a mark of membership to the Yakuza.
 
Posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider (# 76) on :
 
Although that may not be an absolute: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12477678
 
Posted by Spike (# 36) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Amanda B. Reckondwythe:

Personally, I find them offensive in women. I can't look at a tattooed woman. And they're all going to look very funny as little old ladies.

My 18 year old niece had a tattoo on her abdomen. My sister's (her mother) response was "wait and see what that looks like after you've had a couple of children"
 
Posted by St. Gwladys (# 14504) on :
 
Personally, I wouldn't want a tattoo or any other piercings other than my pierced ear lobes. I have female friends with nose studs, and that can look nice, although the thought of a nose stud when you have a cold isn't.
I have friends of both sexes who have tattoos, and so I suppose, I've got used to it.
I think the worst piercing I've seen was some years ago - a bloke with a ring through the septum of his nose. He looked just like a bull or pig with a ring in it's nose.
 
Posted by SusanDoris (# 12618) on :
 
Personally, I have never wanted a tattoo and agree with the point in the last post about what it would look like on me now!! Apart from the fact that I've shrunk, my arms are thin and the skin loses all its collagen etc. I'm very glad I did not have one. They are certainly something one takes for granted nowadays, though.
 
Posted by neandergirl (# 8916) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by la vie en rouge:
I put tattooing in the category of “things I personally wouldn’t do but not my business on someone else”. It will have an influence on the way you’re perceived, but so do plenty of other personal styling choices.

However, I do think there is one health issue that isn’t mentioned enough: the so-called “girlie spot” on the lower back. Any young woman who wants to get inked there needs to be thoroughly warned that if she ever wants to have a baby later in life, she will not under any circumstances be able to have an epidural (anaesthetists won’t/can’t inject into a tattoo). I believe this warning is not always given.

I think that might depend on the types of ink used and/or size of the tat. I was able to have an epidural with no problem. It's also never interfered with MRI/CT scans which can, I'm told, excite particles in some inks and cause heat.
 
Posted by rolyn (# 16840) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Spike:
My 18 year old niece had a tattoo on her abdomen. My sister's (her mother) response was "wait and see what that looks like after you've had a couple of children"

Probably look like one of those pen drawings we used to do on inflated balloons after the air was let out. Maybe not, unless the tattoo is applied in late pregnancy.
 
Posted by rolyn (# 16840) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Huia:
quote:
Originally posted by rolyn:
Some say it could be a cry for help.

I think that's a generalisation. Certainly the young men I've seen with "fuck" tattooed across their foreheads* are probably alienated from mainstream society, but I don't think you could say that of the men and women whose tattoos reflect their cultural heritage.

*One bloke tattooed his own forehead using a mirror so he could see what he was doing. Unfortunately (for him) he tattooed the mirror image of what he wanted

I suppose walking around with KCUF isn't so much a cry for help but more an indication of don't try this at home folks
[Razz]
 
Posted by HCH (# 14313) on :
 
Three unrelated comments:

There are, of course, some tattoos needed for medical purposes, such as where to aim the X-ray laser.

A friend of mine who happens to be a Lesbian told me she has a number of tattoos but she could not show them to me as she shows them only to other women.

I have an impression that some colorful tattoo inks will fade over time leaving essentially a brown tattoo.
 
Posted by Fr Weber (# 13472) on :
 
Yeah, and I wish those damn kids would get off my lawn.
 
Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :
 
Originally posted by rolyn:
quote:
Some say it could be a cry for help.
Some people are idiots.

quote:
Originally posted by Jane R:
Is this a debate thread, or just an opportunity for people who don't like tattoos to express their prejudices?

it is mostly the latter, but there is room for the former if a few people would stop shaking their canes in the air.
 
Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by HCH:
Three unrelated comments:

There are, of course, some tattoos needed for medical purposes, such as where to aim the X-ray laser.

Like my mum. Cancer treatment.
quote:

A friend of mine who happens to be a Lesbian told me she has a number of tattoos but she could not show them to me as she shows them only to other women.

many different reasons for tattoos. Not all of them are about exhibitionism.
quote:

I have an impression that some colorful tattoo inks will fade over time leaving essentially a brown tattoo.

Sun exposure is the chief enemy of tattoos. There will be some fading regardless, but keeping the exposure of the tattooed area to a minimum will prevent a lot of fading.
Part of the idea that all tats will become shapeless blobs is that one most sees tattoos that receive a lot of sun. And some older inks were not formulated for durability.
 
Posted by Stercus Tauri (# 16668) on :
 
There's a minister not far from here who has a cross tattooed on the back of his neck. Whether that's to scare off ISIS or encourage them I don't know, but they're not very active in these parts. Personally, I hate tattoos or intentional disfigurement of any kind, but I try not to impose that feeling on anyone else. I have to keep reminding myself that I have a few of my own, thanks to the b***** radiation oncologist.
 
Posted by greenhouse (# 4027) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:

I find the tattoo phenomenom hard to understand. People talk of individuality but they are following a trend. It is as individual as having an Iphone and expressing indivduality with a differnt colour of case. That's conformity. It all seems a little sad to me.

By the same token all art galleries are pretty much the same, because it's just paint and canvas.
 
Posted by leo (# 1458) on :
 
My prejudice is that tatoos are 'common'.
 
Posted by no prophet's flag is set so... (# 15560) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by greenhouse:
By the same token all art galleries are pretty much the same, because it's just paint and canvas.

The pictures can be moved out of sight and rearranged in galleries. I think the analogy breaks down fairly quickly. Though your post makes me wonder about the art saying "all art is limitation, the essence of every picture is the frame". Perhaps the limitation of tattoos is the body.

I'm still thinking about the heavy metals and mutation of organic molecules when the paint isn't metallic, followed by migration into the lymph nodes.
 
Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Erroneous Monk:

I'd opt for an everlasting truth. A Half Man Half Biscuit or Morrissey/The Smiths lyric.

Stavanger Toestub?
(Google it if you must, definitely NSFW or sensitive ears)

AG
 
Posted by Margaret (# 283) on :
 
If you decide to have a tattoo, do make sure that the person who's going to do it can spell. I used to work with a young woman who had a scroll on her forearm bearing the words LESBAIN LOVE.
 
Posted by Jane R (# 331) on :
 
lilbuddha:
quote:
...it is mostly the latter, but there is room for [debate] if a few people would stop shaking their canes in the air.

Well, I tried... but nobody else seems to be interested in Princess Girl...
 
Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Jane R:
lilbuddha:
quote:
...it is mostly the latter, but there is room for [debate] if a few people would stop shaking their canes in the air.

Well, I tried... but nobody else seems to be interested in Princess Girl...
Could mention Ötzi as well. But as your and orfeo's post have generated little response, it would seem that people are not interested in exploring the cultural angle.
IMO, because they would need to examine the irrationality/subjectivity of their predjudice.
 
Posted by Ian Climacus (# 944) on :
 
Thanks for the correction to my Western view Alan, and the view of tattoos in Japan. Appreciated.
 
Posted by rolyn (# 16840) on :
 
No shaking of the canes here, always been a firm believer in letting people do what they want to do, "within reason" as Mater used to say.

By all means let us debate the prejudice that may be surrounding tattoos, provided is doesn't feel like treading on eggshells as often can seem the case.
May I start by suggesting some of it might have derived from tattoos being associated with inferior Native cultures long ago, then in more recent times,(as in 100yrs ago or less), they often adorned the fore arms of sailors and travelling Gypsies---common folk as it was said back then.
 
Posted by RuthW (# 13) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Amanda B. Reckondwythe:
Personally, I find them offensive in women. I can't look at a tattooed woman.

Why?
 
Posted by Hiro's Leap (# 12470) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by leo:
My prejudice is that tatoos are 'common'.

An honest response, and I suspect one shared with 95% of middle class Britain 30 years ago. Tattoos were a symbol of marginalised, rough and/or extremely masculine cultures: military (especially navy, but also army), ex-cons, travellers, bikers. Tattoos were kind of scary and taboo, and that seemed to part of their kudos. The pain of the procedure was probably part of that.

The situation's changed a lot since then, I'm not sure why. Was it via musicians? Metalheads then the rest? Surfing maybe? People seem to like to be bit more dangerous and transgressive then their surrounding culture, but not too much so, and a generation ago tattoos were a step too far for most people.
 
Posted by Morgan (# 15372) on :
 
No tattoos myself but I know a few people who have commemorated significant events in that way, rather like Olympic athletes getting a small tattoo of the Olympic rings. More commonly in my acquaintance, a wedding or the birth of a child. One person had a Celtic cross tattooed over her heart to mark her ordination.
 
Posted by no prophet's flag is set so... (# 15560) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Hiro's Leap:
The situation's changed a lot since then, I'm not sure why. Was it via musicians? Metalheads then the rest? Surfing maybe? People seem to like to be bit more dangerous and transgressive then their surrounding culture, but not too much so, and a generation ago tattoos were a step too far for most people.

No, I don't think so. Tattoos weren't on the radar re people pushing the cultural or societal envelope, they were for military, and represented a rough, macho crowd. Like steel workers and rough necks. Hinted of something a bit seedy as well. Before something like 1980.
 
Posted by anoesis (# 14189) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by neandergirl:
quote:
Originally posted by la vie en rouge:
However, I do think there is one health issue that isn’t mentioned enough: the so-called “girlie spot” on the lower back. Any young woman who wants to get inked there needs to be thoroughly warned that if she ever wants to have a baby later in life, she will not under any circumstances be able to have an epidural (anaesthetists won’t/can’t inject into a tattoo). I believe this warning is not always given.

I think that might depend on the types of ink used and/or size of the tat. I was able to have an epidural with no problem. It's also never interfered with MRI/CT scans which can, I'm told, excite particles in some inks and cause heat.
I've had an epidural. It went in higher up than those lower back tattoos tend to be positioned.

Just had a look at 'epidural' on google images. Two quick thoughts. 1.) Gross, gross, gross, but then, hey, you don't have to look at your own one going in! and 2.) There does seem to be some variation in the height of the insertion point.
 
Posted by anoesis (# 14189) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Spike:
quote:
Originally posted by Amanda B. Reckondwythe:

Personally, I find them offensive in women. I can't look at a tattooed woman. And they're all going to look very funny as little old ladies.

My 18 year old niece had a tattoo on her abdomen. My sister's (her mother) response was "wait and see what that looks like after you've had a couple of children"
Look, an abdomen is going to appear different after a couple of children anyway. And the owner of said abdomen is likely to wistfully look back on days of yore and prefer her pre-mommy abdomen - anyway. And the partner of said mommy-abdomen is likely to think that it's just great the way it is, just the same as it was just great the way it was - anyway. I don't see that a tattoo makes much odds one way or another there.
 
Posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider (# 76) on :
 
I know this thread is making me want to go out and get one...
 
Posted by Snags (# 15351) on :
 
If it helps, I am. Booked in for April, after meeting in September (which is a good sign).

FWIW my reasons are fairly simple. I have always liked tatts, for a number of reasons. Partly the up yours to social acceptability (less of an issue these days) and partly just for their own sake. In my youth three things stopped me getting one: my flawed GLE take on Leviticus; knowledge that the images I most liked weren't really appropriate to who I was; a belief that I wasn't That Guy - too straight, vanilla, conventional, despite having long hair, denim & leather, bikes, rock etc.

In recent years I've come up with an idea I like, found a friend who could draw it, a tattoo artist who is damn good, and decided life's too short. I'd rather live the latter third/half my life regretting what I've done, not what I haven't.

Maybe it's a mid-life crisis, but I can't afford a flash car, and loose women would be detrimental to my marriage, so sod it. And yes, it’s going somewhere that is generally covered anyway (upper right arm, I'm a leftie (in many regards)).
 
Posted by MaryLouise (# 18697) on :
 
There's a strong gang culture in the Cape, especially in prisons where gang members get facial tattoos to inspire fear in rival gangs and the community. Pigments are made up from burned paper, ground-up rubber washers or brick dust with saliva. The symbolism is similar to those found in many prison/gang subcultures: fangs under the lips, devil horns on the forehead, spider's webs to indicate a predator and rows of stars for killing counts. Older members who have left gangs often try to have identifying tattoos disguised by adding Bible verses, crosses and praying hands. The combination is very Jekyll & Hyde rolled up in one.

Lifestyle tattoos also outlive their trendiness: a friend is going through hellishly painful and lengthy laser removal of a Goth composition of vampire bats and bleeding roses tattooed on her neck. She is allergic to numbing creams and can't afford surgery under anaesthetic. The same friend developed bursitis on her upper leg after a tattoo artist diluted her inks with unsterilised water. She assures me most people don't get infections and laser removal needn't involve cosmetic dermatologists or injections of Lidocaine.


I'm just a scaredy-cat about physical pain. I find some tattoos attractive on other people but can't think of any design or sigil or phrase I like enough to want to have it tattooed on my skin. And I suspect I'd change my mind about it within weeks rather than years.
 
Posted by Mudfrog (# 8116) on :
 
When I had my Queen tattoo done it took 3 solid hours without a break. The first bit was to get the outline done, the next bit was for all the grey shading.

Looking back I think I went into a very mild form of shock because I went very cold and I started trembling a little. The tattooist turned the heating up for me [Smile]

I was so proud of it but then, about 3 days later I looked at it in the mirror and for maybe, 10 seconds - a very long 10 seconds! - I thought Oh no! What have I done??

But that passed and I really couldn't be more proud.
People might ask what on earth possessed you to get the logo of a rock group on your arm? Well, it's more than that.

I fell in love with Queen when Bohemian Rhapsody came out and a friend loaned me Sheer Heart Attack - the album prior to A Night at The Opera. I was hooked and in the second half of the 70s, until I left Sixth Form in 1980, Queen was the soundtrack to my schooling.

Of course, I've seen them numerous times with Freddie and post-Freddie and so, my tattoo is basically a reflection of the passion for the music I've loved for 40+ years.

The Bible verse is my favourite verse and so, that will never go out of fashion.

I would only advise anyone to get a tattoo if it's absolutely the thing that occupies your mind for months beforehand. Never get one with little thought.


... oh, and they're addictive. I keep saying I want another one but at the moment, thankfully, I have no idea what I really want. Mrs Mudfrog will be pleased [Smile]

[ 28. January 2017, 09:15: Message edited by: Mudfrog ]
 
Posted by Hiro's Leap (# 12470) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:
Tattoos weren't on the radar re people pushing the cultural or societal envelope, they were for military, and represented a rough, macho crowd. Like steel workers and rough necks.

Agreed about rough and macho crowd. It was also class-based - there was generally a very firm resistance to tattoos from the middle class.

So who popularized tattoos across all of society, and when? Or was it a general diffusion? Musicians in the 1980s seem quite a good possibility. Henry Rollins (seen here in 1980) is one example, but heavy metal bands probably got there first. What about country? Or hip hop then rap?

It's also not a uniform phenomena across the West - some parts of Europe are much less tattooed than the UK is currently, e.g. Poland.

(Edit to add: Props to everyone who gets their first one later in life - hearing people's reasons is fascinating.)

[ 28. January 2017, 11:46: Message edited by: Hiro's Leap ]
 
Posted by Hiro's Leap (# 12470) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Martin60:
Had my sig tattooed on my right forearm for my 60th.

Mind if I ask why?
 
Posted by Mudfrog (# 8116) on :
 
When I had the first one done at the age of 52 my son said to me (Like he was my father!) 'But you'll have it for the whole of your life.'

I replied that as I had lived 52 years without one, getting one now was only temporary. [Smile]
 
Posted by North East Quine (# 13049) on :
 
I haven't got one, but were I to get one, it would be the Pictish v-rod and crescent symbol.

Last summer I spotted a heavily tattoed and pierced man at the bus stop, who had a V-rod and crescent. So I stopped to admire it and said that it would be my choice. He then told me he had a second Pictish design; the Pictish beast. My avatar!

After I had finished praising his excellent taste in tattoos and walked away, it occured to me that having a fat, frumpy middle-aged woman sharing his taste in tattoos might not have been quite the effect he had been aiming for.
 
Posted by Hiro's Leap (# 12470) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by North East Quine:
After I had finished praising his excellent taste in tattoos and walked away, it occured to me that having a fat, frumpy middle-aged woman sharing his taste in tattoos might not have been quite the effect he had been aiming for.

I bet he was chuffed. [Smile]

Mudfrog, for your next tattoo, try running this one past Mrs Mudfrog with a straight face?
 
Posted by no prophet's flag is set so... (# 15560) on :
 
The pain aspect isn't significant for me. I have had teeth drilling and filled without freezing, and stitches to a significant cut when anaesthesia wasn't available except if air extracted. The trick is to renain calm, against natural responses.

Frankly, I'd recommend physical exertion or a wilderness trip. Also addictive. And doesn't include the "look at me" component.
 
Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:

Frankly, I'd recommend physical exertion or a wilderness trip. Also addictive. And doesn't include the "look at me" component.

The Hell it doesn't. Yes, you can go hiking or do fitness without telling anyone, but plenty of folks do use fitness as a "look at me".
I don't give a rat's arse what anyone other than myself thinks of my ink. There are plenty like me in that regard.
Whilst there are also legions of people who wish to show theirs off, one can say that about most hobbies or interests.
There are real issues one should, IMO, consider before getting a tattoo. However most of the negative opinions expressed thus far on this thread are of the stuffed shirt, whinging old bastard variety.
Like, don't like as you please. But enough of the self-righteous pretense.
 
Posted by Pigwidgeon (# 10192) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
The Hell it doesn't. Yes, you can go hiking or do fitness without telling anyone, but plenty of folks do use fitness as a "look at me".

It took me a while to figure out (with Google's help, I believe) why people had decals on their cars that look like the national identification ones, but which say "26.2" or "13.1" When I found that they were marathon bragging stickers I just [Roll Eyes] .
 
Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Pigwidgeon:
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
The Hell it doesn't. Yes, you can go hiking or do fitness without telling anyone, but plenty of folks do use fitness as a "look at me".

It took me a while to figure out (with Google's help, I believe) why people had decals on their cars that look like the national identification ones, but which say "26.2" or "13.1" When I found that they were marathon bragging stickers I just [Roll Eyes] .
With some marathoners, it is camaraderie rather than bragging. They are a more diverse group than other competitive athletes, IME.
Still, I do not care for stickers and such.
 
Posted by balaam (# 4543) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:
Re facial piercings. They generally don't go well with airbags in case of auto accident.

Neither does wearing glasses, but you wouldn't want drivers to remove them for safety.
 
Posted by Mudfrog (# 8116) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Hiro's Leap:
quote:
Originally posted by North East Quine:
After I had finished praising his excellent taste in tattoos and walked away, it occured to me that having a fat, frumpy middle-aged woman sharing his taste in tattoos might not have been quite the effect he had been aiming for.

I bet he was chuffed. [Smile]

Mudfrog, for your next tattoo, try running this one past Mrs Mudfrog with a straight face?

Oh no! LOL
[Snigger] [Killing me]
 
Posted by nickel (# 8363) on :
 
A neighbor lady has an oval marathon sticker on her car. Underneath a big "0.0" it says: "I don't run"
 
Posted by Leaf (# 14169) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:
I find the tattoo phenomenom hard to understand. People talk of individuality but they are following a trend. It is as individual as having an Iphone and expressing indivduality with a differnt colour of case. That's conformity. It all seems a little sad to me.

I see that Donald Trump's way of expressing disapproval is spreading. SAD!

Seriously, if you have come to understand and not just to judge, then perhaps you might consider these perspectives from one uninked: Tattoos are not about individuality but identity. Since some identities are shared, it would make sense that some tattoos are copied or similar to each other.

I think the whole medical thing is overblown scare-mongering. Everyone "knew" that tattoos blew up in MRIs, and that you couldn't get an epidural if you had a tramp stamp. Both are vastly overstated; the only reason I wouldn't say "utter bullshit" is because there have been rare cases where tattoos have been problematic. People's risk assessment of their own lives may not include "How will this affect me if I need an MRI or an epidural?" and even if it did, it seems they would have reason to decide that a tat is statistically unlikely to cause a problem.

Being tattooed is a sign that you can endure pain. I think it can be a coded way of signalling that a person has gone through tremendous pain and lived to tell about it. The "worst" tattoos - gang tats, prison tats - are visible indicators that someone has had a much harder life than I have. In my junior high sewing class, the girl who sat next to me had a side project of creating a tattoo on her finger with a seam ripper and a ball point pen. She was the "lot lizard" at a local truck stop her parents owned. She was fifteen. You could see her tats and similar as "sad" but I see them as coping strategies and medals of pride: they say, "I have been through some shit and come out on the other side."

Like K:LB this thread makes me want to go out and get a tattoo.
 
Posted by Leaf (# 14169) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:
quote:
Originally posted by Amanda B. Reckondwythe:
Personally, I find them offensive in women. I can't look at a tattooed woman.

Why?
I would also like to know why. You would miss out on this excellent preacher.
 
Posted by mousethief (# 953) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Leaf:
In my junior high sewing class, the girl who sat next to me had a side project of creating a tattoo on her finger with a seam ripper and a ball point pen. She was the "lot lizard" at a local truck stop her parents owned. She was fifteen. You could see her tats and similar as "sad" but I see them as coping strategies and medals of pride: they say, "I have been through some shit and come out on the other side."

Is tattooing oneself with a seam ripper akin to cutting?
 
Posted by Curiosity killed ... (# 11770) on :
 
mousethief - I wouldn't have thought that the self-tattoos are the same thing as cutting. Cutting is a way of self-harming to give some release from feelings you can't cope with otherwise. Us adults do it with overeating, alcohol, drugs, driving too fast, overexercising, anorexia ...

A deliberate tattoo to fit in isn't the same thing, although there may be some relief from stress in in the self-infliction of pain.

(And another one who'd be tempted to get a tattoo if only I didn't know no reputable tattoo artist would touch me with a barge pole. I fail on the health question asking about allergies: I get rashes from nickel and cosmetics.)
 
Posted by Anselmina (# 3032) on :
 
Despite the fact I don't have blue blood I treated myself to a small tat, to celebrate my first year in theological college. I'd wanted one for many years - just a wee one. I think it was over twenty years old before my mum even knew about it.
 
Posted by Leaf (# 14169) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
Is tattooing oneself with a seam ripper akin to cutting?

Could be. I'm no expert in the psychology of cutting. As with cutting, it seems to me that the place to begin the conversation may not be with "Eww! Don't you know you may be complicating the insertion of wrist lines in some far-off, unforeseen medical event?" but "Why do you do that?"
 
Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
Is tattooing oneself with a seam ripper akin to cutting?

ISTM, it would be more akin to single-needle tattooing, such as in a traditional Japanese style. It is a non-machine method with a single needle.
The biggest worry with a seam ripper would be infection.
Also, a tattoo works best a certain depth, neither too shallow nor too deep. A seam ripper would not be ideal for this, IMO.

[ 29. January 2017, 15:44: Message edited by: lilBuddha ]
 
Posted by Leaf (# 14169) on :
 
Of all the people on the Ship whom I would have expected to have a tattoo of Queen, Mudfrog, your name would have been at the bottom of the list. I will have to rethink certain prejudices of my own [Big Grin]
 
Posted by mousethief (# 953) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
Is tattooing oneself with a seam ripper akin to cutting?

ISTM, it would be more akin to single-needle tattooing, such as in a traditional Japanese style. It is a non-machine method with a single needle.
The biggest worry with a seam ripper would be infection.
Also, a tattoo works best a certain depth, neither too shallow nor too deep. A seam ripper would not be ideal for this, IMO.

I rather meant psychologically than methodologically.
 
Posted by Gamaliel (# 812) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Leaf:
Of all the people on the Ship whom I would have expected to have a tattoo of Queen, Mudfrog, your name would have been at the bottom of the list. I will have to rethink certain prejudices of my own [Big Grin]

Likewise.

I was pretty shocked and stunned when I read about it just now.

I'm not sure what I found most startling. The tattoo or Mudfrog's appalling taste in music ...

[Razz]
 
Posted by mousethief (# 953) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Gamaliel:
I'm not sure what I found most startling. The tattoo or Mudfrog's appalling taste in music ...

[Razz]

Whoa, them's fightin' words, sirrah.
 
Posted by no prophet's flag is set so... (# 15560) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Pigwidgeon:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by lilBuddha:
[qb] The Hell it doesn't. Yes, you can go hiking or do fitness without telling anyone, but plenty of folks do use fitness as a "look at me".

I wasn't thinking of the peacock-people with their flashy tail equivalent goretex and merino, walking the streets of a mountain resort, nor the spandex-clad elliptical steppers in gyms. Rather people merely getting some physical activity and some mindfulness away from others.

Not understanding a tattoo's value if it isn't looked at.
 
Posted by Mudfrog (# 8116) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Leaf:
Of all the people on the Ship whom I would have expected to have a tattoo of Queen, Mudfrog, your name would have been at the bottom of the list. I will have to rethink certain prejudices of my own [Big Grin]

There is a lot about me that Shipmates do not know [Biased]
[Devil]
 
Posted by Mudfrog (# 8116) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Gamaliel:
quote:
Originally posted by Leaf:
Of all the people on the Ship whom I would have expected to have a tattoo of Queen, Mudfrog, your name would have been at the bottom of the list. I will have to rethink certain prejudices of my own [Big Grin]

Likewise.

I was pretty shocked and stunned when I read about it just now.

I'm not sure what I found most startling. The tattoo or Mudfrog's appalling taste in music ...

[Razz]

I aim to shock [Smile]

Appalling taste in music? How very dare you!
 
Posted by Hiro's Leap (# 12470) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Leaf:
Tattoos are not about individuality but identity.

I guess they are often very strongly about both. Tribal tattoos, gang tattoos and military tattoos all say "this is my group, and this who I am within that group". IMO that gives them a powerful cohesion and beauty - especially for tribal tattoos.
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
Is tattooing oneself with a seam ripper akin to cutting?

I wondered that too. People probably tattoo for a complex mix of reasons including: group identity, asserting individuality, pure aesthetics/creativity, wanting to mark important life events, demonstrating ability to handle pain, using physical pain to deal with emotional pain, passion for an idea/ideology/band/brand, and fashion/lifestyle/consumerism.

[ 29. January 2017, 18:42: Message edited by: Hiro's Leap ]
 
Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
I rather meant psychologically than methodologically.

Perhaps the name is influencing your view more than it should. Ripper. ISTM, she was using what she had, a pointy thing and some ink.
quote:
Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:
I wasn't thinking of the peacock-people with their flashy tail equivalent goretex and merino, walking the streets of a mountain resort, nor the spandex-clad elliptical steppers in gyms.

Wow. Not what I was talking about, General Ise. I know a number of competitive athletes and they don't generally wear that rubbish. Some of them still manage to verbally strut, humble brag and let people know just what they accomplish. Not all of them, of course, some are quiet about it.

quote:

Not understanding a tattoo's value if it isn't looked at.

You are not demonstrating much understanding on this topic, so not surprising.
I got my ink for me. Just me. If someone else appreciates it, that is nice, but I do not care. Generally, my tat's cannot be seen.
People get them because a design has meaning to them. People get them in remembrance. People get them as a psychological boost. There are many, many reasons people get ink and not all of them are about showing off.
 
Posted by mousethief (# 953) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
I rather meant psychologically than methodologically.

Perhaps the name is influencing your view more than it should. Ripper. ISTM, she was using what she had, a pointy thing and some ink.
I know what a seam ripper is. I own at least two (although one has gone missing). I have used them extensively. Like pieces of broken glass, they are not designed to create wounds in human skin. Someone repeatedly injuring themselves is a huge red flag, or should be.
 
Posted by The5thMary (# 12953) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Huia:
I have my ears pierced because when I wore earrings all the best ones were for pierced ears (and I totally agree with Lamb Chopped about the pain of clip on ones - the screw on ones were even worse).

I would never have a tattoo due to the pain factor and my indecisiveness, but I am interested in the rise of traditional tattoos among Maori, especially the moko kauae the chin tattoo that was traditionally given to women with high mana (high ranking women).

Huia

Ear cuffs are clip on but they don't generally hurt, unless you have to push down on the cuff in order to have it stay on your ear lobe. Ear cuffs are hard to find but a Google search will show you some stores that sell them. I wear them all the time--well, I did until I misplaced my favorite one, a little ball above a cross. It was subtly Christian and wasn't ostentatious.
 
Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Erroneous Monk:

I'd opt for an everlasting truth. A Half Man Half Biscuit or Morrissey/The Smiths lyric.

[Smile]

Celtic Knotweed has just told me which song she thought of when she saw your post first - to my eternal discredit, I didn't even think of it. (also NSFW).

AG
 
Posted by Leaf (# 14169) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
quote:
Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:
Not understanding a tattoo's value if it isn't looked at.

You are not demonstrating much understanding on this topic, so not surprising.
I got my ink for me. Just me. If someone else appreciates it, that is nice, but I do not care. Generally, my tat's cannot be seen.
People get them because a design has meaning to them. People get them in remembrance. People get them as a psychological boost. There are many, many reasons people get ink and not all of them are about showing off.

NoProphet: look at it this way. There are parts of your identity you have shared online (well, on the internet no one knows you're a dog, but let's assume you are who you present). Even your sig reveals things about you. But there are other aspects of your identity you choose not to reveal, which are private and closely held. Some tattoos are like that, too.
 
Posted by Erroneous Monk (# 10858) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Sandemaniac:
quote:
Originally posted by Erroneous Monk:

I'd opt for an everlasting truth. A Half Man Half Biscuit or Morrissey/The Smiths lyric.

[Smile]

Celtic Knotweed has just told me which song she thought of when she saw your post first - to my eternal discredit, I didn't even think of it. (also NSFW).

AG

I was surprised you didn't get there faster. But no to that and your previous suggestion.
[Big Grin]

Hmm. I am going to have to give it some thought.
 
Posted by no prophet's flag is set so... (# 15560) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Leaf:
NoProphet: look at it this way. There are parts of your identity you have shared online (well, on the internet no one knows you're a dog, but let's assume you are who you present). Even your sig reveals things about you. But there are other aspects of your identity you choose not to reveal, which are private and closely held. Some tattoos are like that, too.

Permanence. I may change my clothes, the paintings on my wall, my sig.

Tattoos are are interesting thing. Brand yourself, both for yourself and others.
 
Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :
 
She didn't say clothes.
You are somehow managing to read more and less into tattoos then there is to be read.
 
Posted by no prophet's flag is set so... (# 15560) on :
 
No, I said clothes. I can change them. I can also change my sig, my mind, my language. Unlike tattoos. They are permanent.
 
Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:
No, I said clothes.

OK, you did. Don't see how it relates to the bit of Leaf's post you quoted.

quote:

I can change them. I can also change my sig, my mind, my language. Unlike tattoos. They are permanent.

I don't see your mindset as all that changeable. Not on this subject, at least.
Not saying that you have to, of course. But you are not really addressing the counters to your prejudices.
 
Posted by Leaf (# 14169) on :
 
no prophet's flag is set so...: You have chosen to communicate several aspects of your identity, not through the medium of ink on your own body, but through words you have chosen to type and post to an internet board. (It would have been more prudent to confine them to the frail flesh, where they would disintegrate over a few years, than to the eternity of the internet, but I digress.)

Let's take an example. You have mentioned several times that you cycle through the prairie winters. If you chose to have a little bicycle tattooed on yourself, it would be a sign - for yourself and/or others, depending on its visibility - that this is an important part of how you see yourself. You are a cyclist. It is something you enjoy, something you are proud of, something that has tested your endurance. It may not be important to you to mark that on your skin, but perhaps you can understand the impulse to proclaim that in other ways than through the pixels on your monitor.

Hiro's Leap identified many of the reasons people might have to get a tattoo. Do you not understand or empathize with any of them?
 
Posted by St. Gwladys (# 14504) on :
 
I have a very good female friend who has several tattoos. She suffers with depression and is an ex addict who still self harms on occasion. She became a Christian just over a year ago, but is still finding life hard.
She is planning to have another tattoo - a semicolon ; from time to time, life may be paused, but it has not ended. For Caz, the tattoo will be a statement, not only of her identity, but of her hope for the future.
 
Posted by no prophet's flag is set so... (# 15560) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Leaf:
no prophet's flag is set so...: You have chosen to communicate several aspects of your identity, not through the medium of ink on your own body, but through words you have chosen to type and post to an internet board. (It would have been more prudent to confine them to the frail flesh, where they would disintegrate over a few years, than to the eternity of the internet, but I digress.)

Let's take an example. You have mentioned several times that you cycle through the prairie winters. If you chose to have a little bicycle tattooed on yourself, it would be a sign - for yourself and/or others, depending on its visibility - that this is an important part of how you see yourself. You are a cyclist. It is something you enjoy, something you are proud of, something that has tested your endurance. It may not be important to you to mark that on your skin, but perhaps you can understand the impulse to proclaim that in other ways than through the pixels on your monitor.

Hiro's Leap identified many of the reasons people might have to get a tattoo. Do you not understand or empathize with any of them?

I think I'm a fossil from a different era. That's just not part of way I was socialized and live.

The general way is to not burden anyone with anything of yourself. I don't discuss or otherwise advertise that I cycle all the time. I only discuss if someone talks to me about it. I don't do it about that or anything much else. The most advertising of anything I do is wearing neckties to work. I've always worn one to work, I have about 300, I cull them periodically. I think about the weather, the mood / zeitgeist / atmosphere and select one. I don't know that it compares; although I have a few from 35 and 40 years ago, I wouldn't wear them any more and I cannot imagine have permanent What Kinda Guy? lyrics on me. Although I thought it was really cool in 1977.
 
Posted by teddybear (# 7842) on :
 
Not a fan of any sort of non-medically required body modification or decoration. For me it is no different than graffiti on a work of art. I do not find it attractive or physically arousing in romantic partners. In fact, in the case of genital and oral piercings, it is a major turn off. Not a moral judgement on him/her as a person, I find just find them unattractive and in some cases downright disgusting (specifically a clear plug in the cheek that allowed you to watch the person's chewing of food, gum, tobacco, etc). Your choice though! As it is mine not to be a fan.
 
Posted by Zappa (# 8433) on :
 
Tangent alert
quote:
Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:
I have a few from 35 and 40 years ago, I wouldn't wear them any more ... I thought it was really cool in 1977.

Wow ... are they mustard and wide? [Axe murder] I *so* want one.

Or maybe an '80s paisley one?

Actually I don't think this was a tangent after all. Because I sure wouldn't want both.

As it happens I have a huge medical scar on my back. I've always wanted old english script <<ouch>> and an arrow pointing to it on my back.

But I'm too frugal to spend the money. So basically I'm with you on this one. I call them "silly pics" - especially those one of Hiawatha and Goddess knows who else trapising through pine trees on dolphins

OTOH I wouldn't impose my prejudices on those that have them (by posting on a bulletin board? ... oh, wait). But I sure as hell wouldn't want one.

Though I think the Pacific cultural ones are brilliant - on Polynesians ... and look patronizing on non-Polynesians - although ....

[ 31. January 2017, 19:27: Message edited by: Zappa ]
 
Posted by Lyda*Rose (# 4544) on :
 
Zappa:
quote:
...Hiawatha and Goddess knows who else trapising through pine trees on dolphins
[Ultra confused] The mind boggles.
 
Posted by no prophet's flag is set so... (# 15560) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Zappa:
Tangent alert
quote:
Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:
I have a few from 35 and 40 years ago, I wouldn't wear them any more ... I thought it was really cool in 1977.

Wow ... are they mustard and wide? [Axe murder] I *so* want one.

Or maybe an '80s paisley one?

No mustard tie, but I have an electric lemon yellow suit jacket made of silk, which my wife wanted to give away (horrors). If I want to keep I shall have to start wearing it again. Such apparel says youth, vitality and once went with the long blond hair I had.

I don't have any paisley ties any more. They went about 4 years ago. I have some lovely flowers, and some tie dyed. They go well with lime green shirts. That all went out the door with the his and her matching outfits.

quote:
Originally posted by Zappa:

Though I think the Pacific cultural ones are brilliant - on Polynesians ... and look patronizing on non-Polynesians - although ....

Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau has a Haida tattoo, which Maclean's magazine (largest Cdn news mag) has as Originally posted by Zappa:
[QB]]awkward
.
 
Posted by Enoch (# 14322) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Leaf:
... Let's take an example. You have mentioned several times that you cycle through the prairie winters. If you chose to have a little bicycle tattooed on yourself, it would be a sign - for yourself and/or others, depending on its visibility - that this is an important part of how you see yourself. You are a cyclist. It is something you enjoy, something you are proud of, something that has tested your endurance. It may not be important to you to mark that on your skin, but perhaps you can understand the impulse to proclaim that in other ways than through the pixels on your monitor. ...

This may be to some a weird question, but why this strange compulsion to make a statement about oneself?

Why does it matter? Who is interested? Why should they be, and why should I think they need to be? Where does it come from? Why is it important to some people, when others of us don't really have it? Why do it? Is it worthy, when to those of us who haven't really got this urge, it seems more than a bit reprehensible?

I ride a bicycle sometimes, but I don't feel any urge to say to the world at large, whether I know them or not, and whether they are interested or not, 'I am a cyclist'. I don't even think riding a bicycle sometimes needs to give me an identity as in 'I am a cyclist'.
 
Posted by no prophet's flag is set so... (# 15560) on :
 
sorry for link mess!
 
Posted by Leaf (# 14169) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:
The general way is to not burden anyone with anything of yourself. I don't discuss or otherwise advertise that I cycle all the time. I only discuss if someone talks to me about it. I don't do it about that or anything much else.

Except this isn't true, is it? Either you have consciously or unconsciously rejected what you describe as your socialization, but the fact of the matter is that you have shared many aspects of your life on this forum. So why pretend to be reticent when you haven't been?

Is it possible that when you were young and wearing garish ties that some "old fossil" grouched about why you chose to be so flashy and draw attention to yourself?

Why judge what someone else does within their own skin? Did you start this thread seeking support for your opinion, or to genuinely try to understand why people do this?
 
Posted by mousethief (# 953) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Enoch:
This may be to some a weird question, but why this strange compulsion to make a statement about oneself?

Why does it matter? Who is interested? Why should they be, and why should I think they need to be? Where does it come from? Why is it important to some people, when others of us don't really have it? Why do it? Is it worthy, when to those of us who haven't really got this urge, it seems more than a bit reprehensible?

Hey, speak for yourself. I don't feel this urge, but it doesn't seem reprehensible to me. Unfathomable maybe. But not reprehensible.
 
Posted by Pigwidgeon (# 10192) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Enoch:
This may be to some a weird question, but why this strange compulsion to make a statement about oneself?

A lot of people have this compulsion, but in a more temporary manner -- bumper stickers on their cars or t-shirts expounding causes, interests, places they've traveled. A tattoo is pretty much the same thing, except if you change your interests in a few years you're still stuck with it.
 
Posted by no prophet's flag is set so... (# 15560) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Leaf:
... the fact of the matter is that you have shared many aspects of your life on this forum. So why pretend to be reticent when you haven't been?

Real versus an online forum. Kind of obvious. I am allowed to violate usual norms.

quote:
Is it possible that when you were young and wearing garish ties that some "old fossil" grouched about why you chose to be so flashy and draw attention to yourself?
They weren't garish at the time. Right in style. Lovely side burns and moustashes were too.

quote:
Why judge what someone else does within their own skin? Did you start this thread seeking support for your opinion, or to genuinely try to understand why people do this?
Because a dermatologist discussed the health risks in a lengthy appointment. The risks are known and yet to be seen, and we wandered into thoughts what appears to be a false individualisation of a conformity behaviour. I wondered if it was a symptom of what appears to be a narrowing of education and breadth of knowledge, increasing acceleration of a media and consumer society where it is easier to market to people if they are all the same, and their deviance is within fairly narrow bounds.

Tattoos make people feel that they are special individuals, this is understood. But isn't this an illusion, only skin deep? Also, what was once private is public. Mass media culture. Hence the similar spread of intimate piercings and pubic shaving, and behaviour shaped by representations found by an internet search engine. I think it is a mass culture thing, which pretends to be something it isn't.
 
Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :
 
Holy crap, the smell of liniment is cloying and the sound of cane rattling is simply deafening.

np, is all of this because you appear to have made absolutely no effort to even appear to be an individual?

Truth is, very few people are as individualistic as they would like. Non-conformity is most often conforming to a smaller group, rather than no group at all. How much a person is an individual is why one does, not what one does.
 
Posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider (# 76) on :
 
I think to see tattoos as making people feel like individuals is to have the tail wagging the dog.

Rather, people already feel that they are individuals, and may get a tattoo as part of expressing that.
 
Posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider (# 76) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
quote:
Originally posted by Enoch:
This may be to some a weird question, but why this strange compulsion to make a statement about oneself?

Why does it matter? Who is interested? Why should they be, and why should I think they need to be? Where does it come from? Why is it important to some people, when others of us don't really have it? Why do it? Is it worthy, when to those of us who haven't really got this urge, it seems more than a bit reprehensible?

Hey, speak for yourself. I don't feel this urge, but it doesn't seem reprehensible to me. Unfathomable maybe. But not reprehensible.
I'm replying to MT's post because I've done a quick scan and can't locate Enoch's original. So sue me.

Well, I'm not inked, but I do have both an unconventional hairstyle and wardrobe (it's actually very hard for me to find clothes I like and you can almost smell the disdain from shop assistants sometimes when I actually find something I like in a mainstream shop, because they'd already got it pegged as "no-one will buy that!")

So you could say I use my outward appearance to make a statement. I[m sorry Enoch finds that reprehensible.

At the risk of doing some armchair pop-psychology on myself, though, I'll explain to Enoch why I think I have this reprehensible compulsion.

It's because I'm weird. It's because I have no interest in the things most people seem interested in. I spent my school years completely alone because I didn't, couldn't, care and talk about the things that interested everyone else - mostly sports and chart music. It's because I grew to see conventionality as a signal that one was normal, interested in the things normal people are interested in. And since normal people clearly despised me (having the shit beaten out of you for being a weirdo kind of reinforces that point) I had no desire to emulate them. So I didn't. I discovered metal and hard rock at University, found people who in the main also didn't key into mainstream interests, so naturally I picked up some of their styles as I felt more at home with them, hence the hair and predominance of black and purple in my wardrobe.

I work in IT. Not just because I find a natural aptitude for the field, and despite having a number of issues with the stress of it, but because I've experienced the same rejection and antipathy from normal, conventional people whenever I've worked in a more conventional field, and I've been ostracised and frankly bullied. People don't understand how I think, how I talk, how I reason, what I'm interested in, and frankly I don't understand normal people, despite nearly 50 years of trying to share this planet with them.

Largely I pretend they don't exist. I work in a field full of weirdos. I keep up weird hobbies. I even go to a church full of weirdos. My music tastes have shifted a bit and it's more Tull and Fairport than Slayer and Aerosmith these days, but I still look at the covers of maintream magazines and wonder who these people are, and why I should be interested, and then realise the answer is they're no-one in particular to me and there's no reason I should be.

Bitter? Twisted? Maybe. But it keeps me just on this side of sanity. But I have a deep and lasting aversion to doing anything that might make anyone mistake me for being a normal conventional guy, because the normal conventional world doesn't want me, so why should I want to be associated with it?

I went to a football match once; kids' school had free tickets for some reason. That's 90 minutes of my life I'm fucking owed back. I can't believe people pay a fortune for that. And they think I'm weird.

[ 01. February 2017, 08:37: Message edited by: Karl: Liberal Backslider ]
 
Posted by DonLogan2 (# 15608) on :
 
I had a tattoo done in 1981 iirc, just a small rose and scroll with my wifes name in it, perhaps as a sign to others that I was in a relationship. Yes a wedding band would do the same thing but as an engineer I did not wear it much as it was a bit of a liability.
Then the AIDS "epidemic" arrived and any thoughts of more were quashed, until I became a Christian in the late noughties. I now have a couple more and am planning a couple more.
They have been asked about as they are not regular tats and this can be a basis for exploring Christian faith, but they mainly help me to remember my commitment.

Are my tattoos unwise? Who knows, I don`t think they are, unless someone takes offence at them (Jews or Muslims probably). I don`t think they are as unwise as a member of Barrio 18 or MS 13, but I suppose my tats are also about gang membership too.
 
Posted by Anselmina (# 3032) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:


Tattoos make people feel that they are special individuals, this is understood. But isn't this an illusion, only skin deep? Also, what was once private is public. Mass media culture. Hence the similar spread of intimate piercings and pubic shaving, and behaviour shaped by representations found by an internet search engine. I think it is a mass culture thing, which pretends to be something it isn't.

My tatt was and is rarely if ever on display (I wear long sleeves, in case you're wondering!) so it was solely for my own edification. The reason why not even my mum knew I had it for about twenty years, was because the subject never came up and it was never on show.

So I think what Karl said is probably more true, that because people are individuals they might choose to have a tattoo, reflecting some aspect of their life; rather than the aim of having a tattoo in order to be thought special. Though for some people that is their 'thing' undoubtedly.

And people are special individuals, for the matter of that. Each one of us. And some individuals like tatts and some don't. There are, of course, those who tattoo because they - as an individual - think they're doing something defiant, or creative, or personally relevant to them. Too many reasons to generalize tattooing as a phenomenon belonging only to one kind of mindset or attitude. Though there is a greater acceptance of it these days, hence the increased acres of inked skin on show.

I think the most one can say about tattooing is that you can get them for good reasons or for bad reasons. But you may not know whether those reasons really were good or bad, till later down the line! It's a risk, but some are happy to take that risk.
 
Posted by mousethief (# 953) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by DonLogan2:
I had a tattoo done in 1981 iirc, just a small rose and scroll with my wifes name in it, perhaps as a sign to others that I was in a relationship. Yes a wedding band would do the same thing but as an engineer I did not wear it much as it was a bit of a liability.
Then the AIDS "epidemic" arrived and any thoughts of more were quashed, until I became a Christian in the late noughties. I now have a couple more and am planning a couple more.
They have been asked about as they are not regular tats and this can be a basis for exploring Christian faith, but they mainly help me to remember my commitment.

Are my tattoos unwise? Who knows, I don`t think they are, unless someone takes offence at them (Jews or Muslims probably). I don`t think they are as unwise as a member of Barrio 18 or MS 13, but I suppose my tats are also about gang membership too.

Why would Jews or Muslims care?
 
Posted by DonLogan2 (# 15608) on :
 
Hebrew script, Sh`ma.
 
Posted by mdijon (# 8520) on :
 
Jews and Muslims would care about tattoos because Hebrew script? I can't follow the syntax. I don't think the Shema says anything about tattoos, and although I believe there is a Jewish law prohibiting tattoos I don't see how that results in taking offence if others have tattoos or why Muslims would worry about that.

Tattoos are not an absolute barrier to epidurals by the way. The risk is they could leave an unsightly pock in the middle of the tattoo, or (less likely) if the tattoo is infected or recent there would be an infection risk. There is a controversial idea about skin cancer risk but that hasn't really got much evidence behind it.

[ 02. February 2017, 11:00: Message edited by: mdijon ]
 
Posted by Graven Image (# 8755) on :
 
I do not have any ink but do not mind others doing so as long as it is not offensive. I have seen some beautiful work on a women who had both of her breasts removed. On the other hand I know trying to find work with prison tattoos can be a real problem for people trying to make a new start in life. Blessings on doctors to remove them for free. I also once saw a women in a wedding dress with full sleeve tattoos, not a pretty sight IMHO.
 
Posted by GorgeousPit (# 18767) on :
 
As for me, tattoo is not a decoration of your body..It must describe you as a personality! That's why I wanna be inked with an owl!The Owl has a deep meaning in the tattooing art.
It is one of the main aspects for me, as well as
the right professional expert and image that is
worthy to be on my body for a long period of time.
I've found some awesome designs here
http://flowertattooideas.com/owl-tattoos/ , and I relly like Flying Owl Tattoo. But I'm not shure about the placement...
Need your advice, guys!
 
Posted by Brenda Clough (# 18061) on :
 
There was a Women's March in January of this year (you may have heard of it) and I made signs for it. One of them said, "My Pussy, My Rules."
This pertains to areas beyond the genitalia. It is your body and you get to do what you want with it. The only rule is that you don't involve the rest of us in it. We do not have to pay for your tat or your tattoo removal; if you decide to do major things to yourself plan to bear all the costs and consequences.
And this is why it is prudent to have laws preventing very young people from doing permanent things to themselves. I submit to you that any tattoo selected by a 13-year-old is not something that anyone would want to have on their arm thirty years later.
 
Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by GorgeousPit:
But I'm not shure about the placement...
Need your advice, guys!

If you haven't been thinking about it for a long time, give yourself a cooling off period. No need to hurry.
Don't do a design off the wall of a shop, aka flash, or a design that has already been done. In other words, an original design.
Think about placement in regards to your occupation. Mine can be hidden or shown as I choose.
Research your artist, talk to several in their shops. Don't look at one design as proof of their abilities, look through their albums.
Clean and sober is how you want your artist and her/his clients.
Get to know sterilization techniques and make certain s/he follows those.
As Brenda says, the choice is yours, choose wisely.
 
Posted by Kitten (# 1179) on :
 
I second the idea of a cooling off period, it took me a year between deciding to get my first tattoo and getting it done. I decided on my second last year and have not yet had it done, I am awaiting a particular tattooist though
 
Posted by Pangolin Guerre (# 18686) on :
 
Generally, I dislike tattoos for aesthetic reasons, but, OTOH, I've seen some I quite like. An (ahem) intimate acquaintance has a very nicely executed Haida face on his shoulder, above his left bicep. He's not Haida, but he is half First Nation, so I think it entirely appropriate. Another friend of mine has a fractal on a bicep. Points for interesting choice.

I've seen others (actually, increasingly frequently) sporting facial tattoos, and I can almost guarantee that these guys aren't Polynesian. If you're Maori, well, fine, then. I'm all for honouring one's heritage (see above). If not, well, less fine. Neck and facial tattoos, to my mind, are such a complete rejection of broader society, of nailing one's colours to the mast, that it strikes me almost as though they've given up. That said, that's my reading into it. I have strong objections to unconcealed tattoos which by any standard are obscene (and I have seen them). I also object to tattoos which have a particular significance to which one has no earned claim. Two uncles had military tattoos : One served in the RCN, the other in the RCAF, which is fine. The same tattoo on a civilian, not so fine. Similarly, in Canada, a simple 2-D red maple leaf over one's heart has achieved a certain popularity. It either originated with, or was popularised by, our men's swim team at the 1984 Olympics. I feel that that should be reserved only for those who have represented us in international competition.

On a lighter note, some years ago there was a television advertisement promoting responsible drinking. Young guy, very early 20s, wakes up with a colossal hangover. He stumbles into the bathroom (POV is the mirror's), and is rather shocked to discover in the mirror that he now has a nipple ring. He grins, gives the ring a bit of a flick, and gives the mirror a "Yeah, I'm a badass" look and walks back to the bedroom. We then see that on his back left shoulder he had tattooed a very large, very un-badass teddy bear.
 
Posted by Galloping Granny (# 13814) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Huia:
I have my ears pierced because when I wore earrings all the best ones were for pierced ears (and I totally agree with Lamb Chopped about the pain of clip on ones - the screw on ones were even worse).

I would never have a tattoo due to the pain factor and my indecisiveness, but I am interested in the rise of traditional tattoos among Maori, especially the moko kauae the chin tattoo that was traditionally given to women with high mana (high ranking women).

Huia

It's interesting that cultural differences give a totally different slant to the tatooing issue. I find a Maori full-face moko very impressive; that and the moko kauae represent mana and I respond with respect.
But it is a serious decision to undertake the moko, and totally different from the very personal reasons that we've been discussing, that are intended to show individuality or, as someone pointed out, to show that they're one of the crowd.

GG
 
Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :
 
Tā moko today is a sign of identity. As is, for some people, tattoo. The difference being, IMO, that traditional body modification such as tā moko have cultural connotations that do not translate to outsiders comfortably.
Another difference being permissibility. Originally, some modifications required cultural permission. We live in a society that controls appearance through peer pressure rather than strict societal rules. As such, much of our approval/disapproval stems from our peer groups.
 


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