Ship of Fools: Ryan Lochte - one more reason for the world to hate Americans

Thread: Ryan Lochte - one more reason for the world to hate Americans Board: Hell / Ship of Fools.

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Posted by RuthW (# 13) on :

Look, assclown. I'd like to travel overseas again someday, and it would be really nice if I didn't have to sit in embarrassed silence every time my native country became the topic of conversation. Sure, it's not all your fault that Americans abroad are tempted to sew Canadian flags on their backpacks, but you're really not helping. When you are representing the richest, most powerful country on the world stage, it behooves you to behave yourself. You could have gone out and partied in Rio and been a nice guy while you did it, and a few people who met you could have thought, Hey, those Americans were pretty cool, despite the fucked-up foreign policies their government pursues. It wouldn't have made the news, but it would have been cool. But no, you had to be a dick, and the impression that we Americans are jerks who think we can do whatever we want gets just that much more support. And what's more, you concocted a story that played into the publicity about the host country's problems and ended up only illustrating your faith in your white male American privilege, because that's the only conceivable reason you thought you'd get away with it.

I hope you lose your endorsement deals. I hope you end up having to get a shitty service job and have rich bros come in and treat you like dirt. I hope everyone you meet in bars from now on looks at you like the bug you are and walks away.

And I hope you never get to represent the US anywhere ever again.

Posted by Leorning Cniht (# 17564) on :

He told a completely ridiculous frat-boy story. I'd be ashamed if a teenage child of mine behaved like that. I'd expect entitled frat-boy dicks to behave like that. The fact that an allegedly >30 year old human behaves like this is more than embarrassing.

Posted by Pigwidgeon (# 10192) on :

Flying back to the U.S. leaving his three buddies behind was a real class act as well.
[Roll Eyes]

Posted by no prophet's flag is set so... (# 15560) on :

Perhaps he suffers from athluenza?

Posted by Leorning Cniht (# 17564) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Pigwidgeon:
Flying back to the U.S. leaving his three buddies behind was a real class act as well.

And let's not forget that Lochte was the senior member of that little expedition. Bentz and Conger are college kids.

Posted by Sipech (# 16870) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Pigwidgeon:
Flying back to the U.S. leaving his three buddies behind was a real class act as well.

It was the only time in the whole Olympics he got to his destination before his teammates. [Two face]

Posted by Pigwidgeon (# 10192) on :

quote:
Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:
Perhaps he suffers from athluenza?

Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :

quote:
Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:
Perhaps he suffers from athluenza?

Bravo, sir.
By the way, I fully admit I was binge watching "Big Love" last night -- bite me, it was a hard day-- and I missed whatever this tool did. Anybody got a link?

Posted by Og, King of Bashan (# 9562) on :

I think it has been pretty well known for a while now that Ryan Lochte is an idiot and a tool who happens to also be really good looking and good at swimming. As soon as people started asking questions, I knew something had to be up. I honestly expected high-end escorts to be involved.

I can see how, if a private security guard pulled a gun on you and demanded money on the spot, part of you might ask "did I just get robbed?" But it still doesn't excuse the behavior. Or the fact that Lochte apparently had a briefing with US officials, who scolded him and told him to keep a low profile to avoid international embarrassment, and immediately ran across the street to give an interview with NBC, in which he portrayed himself as the cowboy hero who wasn't scared of these robbers.

Posted by Og, King of Bashan (# 9562) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:

quote:
Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:
Perhaps he suffers from athluenza?
Bravo, sir.
By the way, I fully admit I was binge watching "Big Love" last night -- bite me, it was a hard day-- and I missed whatever this tool did. Anybody got a link?

It's still not entirely clear what exactly happened, but here is the clearest account yet (link to Deadspin report on a New York Times article, to save you one of your monthly NYT clicks).

Posted by Doc Tor (# 9748) on :

You're frat boys out on the lash, you break stuff and get told you have to pay for the damage. So far, so Bullingdon Club.

You could have shut up at this point, and no one would have been any the wiser. Literally, no one would have known, and no one would have cared.

But no, you (Lochte in particular - you're 32. Grow the fuck up) double down on it by saying it was robbers dressed as cops who'd mugged you at gunpoint.

Brazil is your host, douchebags. And you are their guests. And now you're pretending that throwing even more money at the problem will make it go away.

I spent several days in the US just last month. In that time I managed to make friends, not enemies. And if I can do that, pretty certain you could have made the effort too.

I hope the State Department burns your passports.

Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :

Peeing on walls , for Chrissake? Was he actually trying to become a walking cliche metaphor of entitlement?

I am gonna bet all those folk ragging on Simone's hair will have jack shit to say about this.

Plus, that face. That smug, chiseled, tanning bed meets white- blue eyed face. Most of the bully terrorists in my high school looked just like that, with variations of hair color. Ugh. My apologies to people with pale blue eyes but they tend to send me into fight- or flight, unless I have a little talk with myself.

Posted by mousethief (# 953) on :

Do we have an extradition treaty with Brazil? Is there any chance he could be sent back to stand trial? Please oh please?

Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :

Drive him up the mountain to the villages and make him find his way back. He'll learn the value of being nice to the locals pretty damn quick. .

Posted by mousethief (# 953) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
Drive him up the mountain to the villages and make him find his way back. He'll learn the value of being nice to the locals pretty damn quick. .

And give him a Monty Python brand English-to-Portuguese phrasebook.

Posted by Lyda*Rose (# 4544) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Leorning Cniht:

quote:
Originally posted by Pigwidgeon:
Flying back to the U.S. leaving his three buddies behind was a real class act as well.

And let's not forget that Lochte was the senior member of that little expedition. Bentz and Conger are college kids.

Which is why Lochte was the only one who got outa Dodge before the shit hit the fan. Probably experience.

I certainly hope this really kills his hopes for future endorsements, I really do. Michael Phelps' little image problem a while back pales next to this debacle.

Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :

And I hate to be all "me" about it, but again, while NBC was parroting his lame ass cockamamie " robbery " story with wide eyed credulous horror, women athletes were getting shit for hair and makeup issues.

[ 19. August 2016, 16:43: Message edited by: Kelly Alves ]

Posted by mousethief (# 953) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
And I hate to be all "me" about it, but again, while NBC was parroting his lame ass cockamamie " robbery " story with wide eyed credulous horror, women athletes were getting shit for hair and makeup issues.

Yes. The "oh boys will be boys" rhetoric coincides with (both in time and in many cases in the persons speaking) bitching about Gabby Douglas not holding her hand on her heart during the US anthem. I'm sure this shows the true differential between the importance of patriotic sentimentality and crime, and has nothing to do with sex or race. [Roll Eyes]

Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :

M-hm.
To be fair, NBC is backpedaling agressively. Their latest headlines about Lochte are scathing.

[ 19. August 2016, 17:03: Message edited by: Kelly Alves ]

Posted by Nick Tamen (# 15164) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Leorning Cniht:
He told a completely ridiculous frat-boy story. I'd be ashamed if a teenage child of mine behaved like that. I'd expect entitled frat-boy dicks to behave like that.

quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:
You're frat boys out on the lash, you break stuff and get told you have to pay for the damage.

Speaking as a (former, I suppose, since I haven't been a boy for a long time) frat boy, and as a still-engaged fraternity alumnus who knows lots and lots of frat boys, I feel compelled to say that it's an insult to most* frat boys everywhere to lump them in with the likes of Lochte.

Otherwise, yeah to pretty much everything else that has been said.

*Yes, I do know there are some bad apples who give everyone else bad names.

Posted by mousethief (# 953) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
M-hm.
To be fair, NBC is backpedaling agressively. Their latest headlines about Lochte are scathing.

Nothing like someone else calling you out on your prejudice to make you take prejudice seriously, eh NBC?

Posted by Schroedinger's cat (# 64) on :

I think he should lose his medal, for un-olympian behaviour.

As others have said, he could have partied away, had a good time, and not got into trouble. Or he could have partied like a Tory, paid for the damage and some compensation and accepted that he was a spoilt, rich, stupid brat who represents all that is bad about the wealthy classes.

But no, he had to make up some stupid story. For that he should be stripped of his medal, and lose his endorsements and sponsorship.

He doesn't represent the US. He represents the entitled, wealthy classes, the supra-national class of people who are more loathsome the more we see of them.

Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
I think he should lose his medal, for un-olympian behaviour.

As others have said, he could have partied away, had a good time, and not got into trouble. Or he could have partied like a Tory, paid for the damage and some compensation and accepted that he was a spoilt, rich, stupid brat who represents all that is bad about the wealthy classes.

But no, he had to make up some stupid story. For that he should be stripped of his medal, and lose his endorsements and sponsorship.

He doesn't represent the US. He represents the entitled, wealthy classes, the supra-national class of people who are more loathsome the more we see of them.

Has Trump found a running mate?

Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
I think he should lose his medal, for un-olympian behaviour.

As others have said, he could have partied away, had a good time, and not got into trouble. Or he could have partied like a Tory, paid for the damage and some compensation and accepted that he was a spoilt, rich, stupid brat who represents all that is bad about the wealthy classes.

But no, he had to make up some stupid story. For that he should be stripped of his medal, and lose his endorsements and sponsorship.

He doesn't represent the US. He represents the entitled, wealthy classes, the supra-national class of people who are more loathsome the more we see of them.

( The ghost of Woody Guthrie stirs )

And that's just it, the supranationals want you to think that they are the only people that matter in any country they happen to be pissing all over. I ain't having that. " This may be God's country, but this is my country, too."

Sorry, frustrated American socialist rant. ( Yeah, I lean pinko.)

Back to the Olympics. Now here's double happiness.

First of all. I am proud to be sharing a country with that young American athlete, and a common ocean with the young lady from New Zealand;and second, both women displayed exactly the kind of spirit people are hoping to see when they tune in to the Olympics every four years.

( Not that it makes me happy to see a young woman mess up her ankle to cross a finish line, but still. The heart behind the choice is admirable.)

This is what young douchebags don't get-- being a young douchebag is neither original nor entertaining, not even to the douche himself, eventually. Even winning a gold in a spectacular way has been done. What those women did? Rare. Magical. Riveting.

Excuse me, the thread's a little dusty. [Tear]

Posted by Schroedinger's cat (# 64) on :

Kelly - absolutely. That image - of athletes helping each other - is what I want to take from these games. That is the true sporting spirit.

Posted by mousethief (# 953) on :

I also find the spirit in teams that have one or two superstar-level members. Simone Biles and Aly Raisman could have been snooty and stuck up, and their other teammates could have been jealous and standoffish, but they all seemed very much a single team, standing arm-around-shoulder, rooting for each other to do well, hugging after performances.

The same goes for other teams, American and otherwise, with outstanding members and other, more running-with-the-pack members. That spirit, even though it's just among athletes on the same team, also shows the best of what we as humans can be.

Posted by RuthW (# 13) on :

quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
The "oh boys will be boys" rhetoric coincides with (both in time and in many cases in the persons speaking) bitching about Gabby Douglas not holding her hand on her heart during the US anthem. I'm sure this shows the true differential between the importance of patriotic sentimentality and crime, and has nothing to do with sex or race.

The black American women who took all three medals in one race did not put their hands over their hearts when the national anthem was played. I don't know if it was intentional or not, but I was glad. Standing quietly is sufficiently respectful, and why athletes have to be patriotic in the first place I have no idea. I don't even always stand for the anthem at baseball games because it bugs me that we're all supposed to make a show of patriotism before every game.

Don't get me started on the requirement that female gymnasts wear makeup. Or on the criticisms of Gabby Douglas' hair.

Posted by Doc Tor (# 9748) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Nick Tamen:
Speaking as a (former, I suppose, since I haven't been a boy for a long time) frat boy, and as a still-engaged fraternity alumnus who knows lots and lots of frat boys, I feel compelled to say that it's an insult to most* frat boys everywhere to lump them in with the likes of Lochte.

EVERYTHING THE MOVIES EVER TOLD ME WAS A LIE! [Waterworks]

(Next you'll be telling me Animal House isn't a drama-documentary)

Posted by Leorning Cniht (# 17564) on :

quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:
The black American women who took all three medals in one race did not put their hands over their hearts when the national anthem was played.

If you'll excuse a dirty foreigner butting in:

quote:

36 U.S. Code § 301 - National anthem
[..]
(b)(1)(C) all other persons present should face the flag and stand at attention with their right hand over the heart, and men not in uniform, if applicable, should remove their headdress with their right hand and hold it at the left shoulder, the hand being over the heart; and

This must surely establish behaviour norms, particularly for athletes competing in a US team.

Posted by mousethief (# 953) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Leorning Cniht:

quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:
The black American women who took all three medals in one race did not put their hands over their hearts when the national anthem was played.
If you'll excuse a dirty foreigner butting in:

quote:

36 U.S. Code § 301 - National anthem
[..]
(b)(1)(C) all other persons present should face the flag and stand at attention with their right hand over the heart, and men not in uniform, if applicable, should remove their headdress with their right hand and hold it at the left shoulder, the hand being over the heart; and
This must surely establish behaviour norms, particularly for athletes competing in a US team.

The flag code is not law, and requiring people to pledge allegiance has been found unconstitutional. Ultimately it's a personal decision and nobody else's business.

Posted by Leorning Cniht (# 17564) on :

quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
The flag code is not law, and requiring people to pledge allegiance has been found unconstitutional. Ultimately it's a personal decision and nobody else's business.

Now I'm confused. The flag code, and the title 36 that I quoted, are found in the US Code. Does that not make it "law"?

I agree that enforcing such behaviour is in direct contravention of the first amendment (and so anyone has a legal right to adopt whatever posture they prefer whilst the US national anthem is playing).

But is there not a difference between what is normative and what is required?

Posted by mousethief (# 953) on :

Okay I partly misspoke. It's "law" but not enforceable. It's "advisory." This might help.

There is of course a difference between normative and required. However it's hard to see how one can attach great opprobrium to someone not doing something that's not required and which moreover doesn't hurt anyone and doesn't interfere with anyone else's rights nor needs.

Posted by Leorning Cniht (# 17564) on :

quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
However it's hard to see how one can attach great opprobrium to someone not doing something that's not required and which moreover doesn't hurt anyone and doesn't interfere with anyone else's rights nor needs.

Perhaps an athlete's posture during the national anthem is the US equivalent of Jeremy Corbyn's top button?

You have a large chunk of the country tut-tutting about apparent disrespect (I don't believe Mr. Corbyn intends disrespect by his habitual dress any more than I believe Miss Douglas intends disrespect by standing with her hands at her sides) and another large chunk saying that they don't care where Gabby Douglas puts her hands - the point is that she can defy gravity!

I have no idea what to make of the people who are complaining about the state of a sportswoman's hair. The most vocal complaints I've personally encountered this time around have come from black women, who have been going on about how black women are proud of their hair and Gabby is letting the side down by not having a perfect coiffure. I find it hard to use a word other than "racist" to describe that particular attitude.

Posted by mousethief (# 953) on :

These complainers [about the hand-on-heart thing] are by and large the same people who said absolutely nothing when Donald Trump didn't put his hand on his heart during the Anthem at the Republican convention. Hard to think of anything other than racism that could explain this discrepancy.

It kind of strains the meaning of "racist" to call the black women who complained of Gabby's hair "racist," but it is very hard for me to understand why they think they have any right to comment upon, let alone condemn, her hair. But I certainly don't claim to understand that community or its attitudes towards things like hair. It's rather up to Gabby to tell them to fuck off, if she so chooses.

[ 19. August 2016, 21:31: Message edited by: mousethief ]

Posted by Leorning Cniht (# 17564) on :

quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
These complainers are by and large the same people who said absolutely nothing when Donald Trump didn't put his hand on his heart during the Anthem at the Republican convention. Hard to think of anything other than racism that could explain this discrepancy.

Agreed (assuming of course that they encountered both events, which is probably true of the majority of them.)

Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :

quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
These complainers [about the hand-on-heart thing] are by and large the same people who said absolutely nothing when Donald Trump didn't put his hand on his heart during the Anthem at the Republican convention. Hard to think of anything other than racism that could explain this discrepancy.

How would Trump know where his heart is?

Posted by mousethief (# 953) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
How would Trump know where his heart is?

Good point. Did the cameras zoom out far enough to see if his hand was on his wallet?

Posted by Leorning Cniht (# 17564) on :

quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
These complainers [about the hand-on-heart thing] are by and large the same people who said absolutely nothing when Donald Trump didn't put his hand on his heart during the Anthem at the Republican convention. Hard to think of anything other than racism that could explain this discrepancy.

Looks like the Trump thing might be fake.

Posted by mousethief (# 953) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Leorning Cniht:
Looks like the Trump thing might be fake.

Well I'll be. Well, if you pop 1 thing off an infinite stack, the stack's still infinite.

Posted by Nick Tamen (# 15164) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:

quote:
Originally posted by Nick Tamen:
Speaking as a (former, I suppose, since I haven't been a boy for a long time) frat boy, and as a still-engaged fraternity alumnus who knows lots and lots of frat boys, I feel compelled to say that it's an insult to most* frat boys everywhere to lump them in with the likes of Lochte.
EVERYTHING THE MOVIES EVER TOLD ME WAS A LIE!

(Next you'll be telling me Animal House isn't a drama-documentary)

Animal House is simple awesomeness. And if you haven't read the book you should. But I've never actually met guys like that. Perhaps if I'd gone to Dartmouth in the early 60s....

Posted by Pigwidgeon (# 10192) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Nick Tamen:
But I've never actually met guys like that. Perhaps if I'd gone to Dartmouth in the early 60s....

I was in college (not Dartmouth) a decade later, and one of our independent fraternities could have served as the inspiration for Animal House.

Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :

I gather you guys don't mean this Dartmouth.

Posted by no prophet's flag is set so... (# 15560) on :

Fraternities and sororities are illegal in my province. Am to I understand that this man's stupid behaviour in Brazil was learned in an Animal House type of fraternity? That's crazy if true.

Posted by Golden Key (# 1468) on :

Re saluting the flag:

It doesn't matter to me, but

--This isn't the first time audiences have gotten upset about not saluting, at the Olympics or elsewhere. The tension about it sits and waits for another incident. (Like the floating story memes in Pratchett's "Witches Abroad", perhaps.) For some people, all the incidents pile up and get squished into their general fear, and discomfort, and need for absolutes. And that can trigger nasty behavior.

--I can kind of see expecting US Olympians to salute, because they're specifically, officially representing the US.

--The Black Muslim protest at the...'68? Olympics in Mexico City may be casting a long shadow.

Oh, and the incident in the OP was really stupid.

Posted by Nick Tamen (# 15164) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Pigwidgeon:

quote:
Originally posted by Nick Tamen:
But I've never actually met guys like that. Perhaps if I'd gone to Dartmouth in the early 60s....
I was in college (not Dartmouth) a decade later, and one of our independent fraternities could have served as the inspiration for Animal House.

it is often the independent ones that are more likely to fit that mold. No oversight from a larger organization that can suspend or pull a charter, or encourage other behavior. (And sometimes no traditions or group culture other than the Animal House sort.)

quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
I gather you guys don't mean this Dartmouth.

Nope. This one.

/tangent

Posted by Nick Tamen (# 15164) on :

quote:
Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:
Fraternities and sororities are illegal in my province. Am to I understand that this man's stupid behaviour in Brazil was learned in an Animal House type of fraternity? That's crazy if true.

No. His behavior was just being compared to stereotypical "frat boy" behavior.

Posted by mousethief (# 953) on :

Katie Rich on Twitter:

Now I'm going to have a hard time believing men when they say they've been robbed.

Posted by Pigwidgeon (# 10192) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
--The Black Muslim protest at the...'68? Olympics in Mexico City may be casting a long shadow.

It was indeed 1968, but it was a Black Power salute -- I don't think it had anything to do with Muslims.

Posted by Golden Key (# 1468) on :

Thanks, Pigwidgeon.

Posted by RuthW (# 13) on :

quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
Katie Rich on Twitter:

Now I'm going to have a hard time believing men when they say they've been robbed.

About the US flag code: I honestly don't give a shit about conforming to the norms for behavior toward the flag. If the people who get worked up about that all cared as much about treating people with the same respect, I might give them the time of day.

Posted by Alan Cresswell (# 31) on :

quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
Katie Rich on Twitter:

Now I'm going to have a hard time believing men when they say they've been robbed.

"I was robbed", the oft repeated refrain of sportsmen who failed to win. What they really mean is "the other guy was better" but their not man enough to give credit where it is due.

In the case of Ryan Lochte he may be pretty good in the swimming pool (but, only 5th place in his individual event), outside the pool pretty much half the human race are better than him.

Posted by Penny S (# 14768) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
Peeing on walls , for Chrissake? Was he actually trying to become a walking cliche metaphor of entitlement?

I have formed the opinion that pissing up walls is a very, very basic (think brain stem level) of claiming territory. Like any male mammal which sprays. So I suppose it could be entitlement, but at the level of doubting entitlement, so using a public method of imposing the idea on observers, when the pisser isn't quite sure in himself of his status.

Unless, of course, it's the covert Olympic contest of who gets highest up the wall. One of my colleagues once came across that going on. Primary school boys.

[ 20. August 2016, 11:14: Message edited by: Penny S ]

Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:

In the case of Ryan Lochte he may be pretty good in the swimming pool (but, only 5th place in his individual event), outside the pool pretty much half the human race are better than him.

He is more than pretty good. His Olympic medal count would be considered outstanding if not for the comparison to Phelps. He has more international competition medals than Phelps, though fewer golds. But not my much. If Phelps had never entered a pool, Lochte would be lauded. Instead he is an also ran.
ISTM, the story he told was a bid for attention. This is not meant as an excuse, he is still an idiot.

Posted by mousethief (# 953) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Penny S:

quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
Peeing on walls , for Chrissake? Was he actually trying to become a walking cliche metaphor of entitlement?

I have formed the opinion that pissing up walls is a very, very basic (think brain stem level) of claiming territory. Like any male mammal which sprays.

It's freaking biblical, and comes with a curse.

Posted by Penny S (# 14768) on :

Chapter and verse? And is the curse for the perpetrator or the owner of the wall?

Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :

quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
If Phelps had never entered a pool, Lochte would be lauded. Instead he is an also ran.
ISTM, the story he told was a bid for attention. This is not meant as an excuse, he is still an idiot.

If Lochte had never entered a pool where would he be? Too many people in sport reckon they have a free pass (ditto entertainment: it's a fame thing).

Posted by Anglican_Brat (# 12349) on :

quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:

quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:

In the case of Ryan Lochte he may be pretty good in the swimming pool (but, only 5th place in his individual event), outside the pool pretty much half the human race are better than him.
He is more than pretty good. His Olympic medal count would be considered outstanding if not for the comparison to Phelps. He has more international competition medals than Phelps, though fewer golds. But not my much. If Phelps had never entered a pool, Lochte would be lauded. Instead he is an also ran.
ISTM, the story he told was a bid for attention. This is not meant as an excuse, he is still an idiot.

One theory of why he did the media interviews with the false story he gave, is that Lochte is intensely jealous of Phelps, who basically took the bulk of the media attention this time around. Phelps, has as always, a spectacular Olympic result whereas Lochte, to my recall, didn't do as well as he did in 2012. So Lochte was craving some sort of media attention, but either by ignorance or by forgetfulness, he didn't realize that if you tell a false story in public, eventually you will be found out.

Posted by Firenze (# 619) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Penny S:
Chapter and verse? And is the curse for the perpetrator or the owner of the wall?

1)
1 Sam 25:22
1 Sam 25:34
1 Kings 14:10
1 Kings 16:11
1 Kings 21:21
2 Kings 9:8

2)
You decide.

Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:

quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
If Phelps had never entered a pool, Lochte would be lauded. Instead he is an also ran.
ISTM, the story he told was a bid for attention. This is not meant as an excuse, he is still an idiot.
If Lochte had never entered a pool where would he be?

Who knows? Not certain what you mean. If it is that he has a level of fame that he would not likely have otherwise, despite Phelps, and should be appreciative of that; I agree.
He has, or perhaps had an opportunity to capitalise on his success. Something the vast majority of athletes will never have.

quote:

Too many people in sport reckon they have a free pass (ditto entertainment: it's a fame thing).

As long as we abet this behaviour, it will continue.

Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Penny S:

quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
Peeing on walls , for Chrissake? Was he actually trying to become a walking cliche metaphor of entitlement?

I have formed the opinion that pissing up walls is a very, very basic (think brain stem level) of claiming territory. Like any male mammal which sprays. So I suppose it could be entitlement, but at the level of doubting entitlement, so using a public method of imposing the idea on observers, when the pisser isn't quite sure in himself of his status.

Unless, of course, it's the covert Olympic contest of who gets highest up the wall. One of my colleagues once came across that going on. Primary school boys.

It's brute Territorialism, which is exactly why it translates well as a universal insult. It both says, "I'm coopting your territory, whether you like it or not" and "I don't give a shit about your territory/ life."

It's a very good metaphor for what Europeans in general did to Brazil, by the way, and I can see why the locals might get pretty visceral about it.

I should say, European royalty and multinational businesses, at this point in history.

[ 20. August 2016, 17:00: Message edited by: Kelly Alves ]

Posted by cliffdweller (# 13338) on :

quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:

He has, or perhaps had an opportunity to capitalise on his success. Something the vast majority of athletes will never have.

To say nothing of teachers, nurses, social workers... a whole host of lowly paid workers laboring in obscurity to make the world a better place.

Posted by Penny S (# 14768) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Firenze:

quote:
Originally posted by Penny S:
Chapter and verse? And is the curse for the perpetrator or the owner of the wall?
1)
1 Sam 25:22
1 Sam 25:34
1 Kings 14:10
1 Kings 16:11
1 Kings 21:21
2 Kings 9:8

2)
You decide.

Thank you - I hadn't thought a mere search for the phrase would work, so I didn't bother. Now I feel guilty for being lazy.

I get the impression that there is something more meant with that formula - with him that is shut up in Israel - what does that mean? It can't just mean yobbish types.

[ 20. August 2016, 21:05: Message edited by: Penny S ]

Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :

I don't think it is deep arcana--urine is excrement and smells foul, kills plants and corrodes surfaces. Pissing on someone's property basically says, fuck your entire life.

Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :

( and on that note, if you are curious about further exploration of the context and meaning of the above verses, there is this fantastic place called Kerygmania where you will find loads of people just ecstatic at the prospect of discussing Biblical pissing for pages and pages. Head over there! They'll be delirious to see you!)

[ 20. August 2016, 21:32: Message edited by: Kelly Alves ]

Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :

quote:
Originally posted by cliffdweller:

quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:

He has, or perhaps had an opportunity to capitalise on his success. Something the vast majority of athletes will never have.

To say nothing of teachers, nurses, social workers... a whole host of lowly paid workers laboring in obscurity to make the world a better place.

Well, yes. But they were never going to have a spotlight shown upon them, it is not the nature of their vocations. Attention is part of most athletic endeavours.

Posted by Mamacita (# 3659) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
( and on that note, if you are curious about further exploration of the context and meaning of the above verses, there is this fantastic place called Kerygmania where you will find loads of people just ecstatic at the prospect of discussing Biblical pissing for pages and pages. Head over there! They'll be delirious to see you!)

Here you go. Come on over.

Posted by Palimpsest (# 16772) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Penny S:

quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
Peeing on walls , for Chrissake? Was he actually trying to become a walking cliche metaphor of entitlement?

I have formed the opinion that pissing up walls is a very, very basic (think brain stem level) of claiming territory. Like any male mammal which sprays. So I suppose it could be entitlement, but at the level of doubting entitlement, so using a public method of imposing the idea on observers, when the pisser isn't quite sure in himself of his status.

Unless, of course, it's the covert Olympic contest of who gets highest up the wall. One of my colleagues once came across that going on. Primary school boys.

The Germans, among others have a paint technology that makes walls bounce the pee back.

[ 21. August 2016, 07:18: Message edited by: Palimpsest ]

Posted by rolyn (# 16840) on :

Return to Sender [Big Grin]

Posted by Wesley J (# 6075) on :

This is being discussed on BBC Radio 4 Broadcasting House as I type. The perpetrator, by the way, said in a recording: 'I overexaggerated.' - Never trust someone with bad grammar. It didn't work for Dubya. He oughta get Lochte'd up.

Posted by passer (# 13329) on :

He's apologised for misunderestimating the effects of his overexaggeration, and for appearing to abandon his team-mates to take the rap. So it's all OK now.

[ 21. August 2016, 09:12: Message edited by: passer ]

Posted by Wesley J (# 6075) on :

Good grief! And you're saying that just in passer-ing.

Posted by Penny S (# 14768) on :

I could have done with that paint at my last home. The guy in the next door house had turned his Edwardian house into a hotel. From the main road, it looked a bit like the Bates Motel, so never did very well. But he also ran it as a pub. In the late evening, his mates would leave it, and its provision of loo, drive out of the car park, pull in by our drive, about 20 yards along, and act biblical part way up our drive.*

I wanted paint that would glow green on impact. One evening I had just put my car away round the back and came clopping round in headmistress shoes, as the flow began. "That isn't very nice, is it?" I enunciated assertively, and he went away - I hope uncomfortably.

That bouncy paint would have been brilliant.

*There was something territorial going on - he would cut our trees. Deep resentment for no apparent reason.

Posted by cliffdweller (# 13338) on :

quote:
Originally posted by passer:
He's apologised for misunderestimating the effects of his overexaggeration, and for appearing to abandon his team-mates to take the rap. So it's all OK now.

I'm not sure I'd call it an overexaggeration. It was a lie. Perhaps an alcohol-fueled lie (as in "I was so sloshed I don't really remember how I ended up back at my hotel less a couple $100s but I do remember a gun."). But a lie nonetheless. And the failure to admit that-- to try to find a weasely way around it-- is part of the problem.

Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :

I believe the passing one was being a smartass, but I defer to his further testimony.

Posted by cliffdweller (# 13338) on :

gotta learn the rhythm of the underworld...

Posted by passer (# 13329) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
I believe the passing one was being a smartass, but I defer to his further testimony.

You know me well, ma'am!

Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :

Lochte will now have to pay his own cash to smuggle budgies as Speedo end their sponsorship.
This could well end his career.
Fitting punishment for a moment of drunken immaturity?

Posted by mousethief (# 953) on :

quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
Lochte will now have to pay his own cash to smuggle budgies as Speedo end their sponsorship.
This could well end his career.
Fitting punishment for a moment of drunken immaturity?

Yup. Drunken immaturity proceeds from the innermost being. That's who he is when he lets his guard down. And the lies were when he was sober. He's not a good egg at bottom. Certainly not somebody I'd want representing MY company. If he's hanging his entire career on a sponsorship, how much can his career be worth?

Posted by passer (# 13329) on :

That NYP front cover was a killer. The board of Speedo must have choked on their breakfasts when they saw that.

Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :

quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:

quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
Lochte will now have to pay his own cash to smuggle budgies as Speedo end their sponsorship.
This could well end his career.
Fitting punishment for a moment of drunken immaturity?
Yup. Drunken immaturity proceeds from the innermost being. That's who he is when he lets his guard down. And the lies were when he was sober. He's not a good egg at bottom. Certainly not somebody I'd want representing MY company. If he's hanging his entire career on a sponsorship, how much can his career be worth?

I do not blame Speedo for dropping him, it is a business decision.
Swimming isn't football, there is not much money for most participants. Without endorsements, most struggle to compete. This is true for most of the sporting events represented in the Olympics. Endorsements are their salary.
He's not a good egg? You know this? Yes, he should not have done what he did. But this is one mistake. One. And whilst incredibly douchey, not one that will have a single iota of effect on Rio or Brazil.

If one mistake is all it takes, shoot me now. I have made real mistakes that had a real effect. Not that I have ever claimed to be a good person.

To make this clear, I am NOT defending his actions. I do think the level of vitriol a bit OTT, though.

Posted by Doc Tor (# 9748) on :

quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
I do think the level of vitriol a bit OTT, though.

Do you? Do you really?

This man - this wealthy man - thought it was okay to vandalise someone's livelihood and lie about having been mugged at gunpoint by crooks masquerading as police officers.

Filing a false report (or wasting police time, or attempting to pervert the course of justice. IANAL) and criminal damage, dissing your hosts while representing your country, making it seem as if the cops that stop you might not actually be cops...

It'd be OTT if he'd admitted it from the get-go, but he fled the country rather than correct the record. And once safely back in the US, he just kept on going.

No one's suggested he gets concrete overshoes. They just don't think he's actually faced up to what he's done. Now his sponsors are hitting him in the only place he understands - his wallet. Good. There might be actual contrition at some point.

Posted by mousethief (# 953) on :

"It's just one little ol' mistake" is the excuse that keeps white athlete privilege alive and well. Indeed it's the exact same idea behind letting rapists off the hook. Are you going to ruin this promising boy's life for just 20 minutes of action? Only white males get this kind of a pass on the evil they do. It needs to stop.

Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:

quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
I do think the level of vitriol a bit OTT, though.
Do you? Do you really?

Yes I do. Really.

quote:

This man - this wealthy man - thought it was okay to vandalise someone's livelihood

The vandalism was inexcusable, though apparently minor.

quote:

and lie about having been mugged at gunpoint by crooks masquerading as police officers.
Filing a false report (or wasting police time, or attempting to pervert the course of justice.

It appears he told a tale to his mates and his mum. Rumours took it from private to public. He did not have the courage or maturity to stop the train before it derailed.

quote:

IANAL) and criminal damage, dissing your hosts while representing your country, making it seem as if the cops that stop you might not actually be cops...

A real phenomenon. Nothing in his tale is out of possibility in Rio. What tripped him up was his behaviour and important inconsistencies,* not it being unlikely.

Speedo, and any other sponsors who follow suit, are justified in pulling their sponsorship.
Americans who are embarrassed by him are understandable. I'm not saying people should not be mad at him. Just questioning the strength of the reaction.

I don't have much sympathy for Rio officials. The increased security came at a cost and will disappear after the athletes exit, leaving the population open to non-Olympics levels of crime.

*Mobile theft is massive in Rio, thieves would not have likely left them in possession of theirs.

Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :

quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
"It's just one little ol' mistake" is the excuse that keeps white athlete privilege alive and well. Indeed it's the exact same idea behind letting rapists off the hook. Are you going to ruin this promising boy's life for just 20 minutes of action?

Oh just fuck you. Lochte tore a poster and kicked a door, he didn't rape anyone.

quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:

Only white males get this kind of a pass on the evil they do. It needs to stop.

If you think I am excusing him at all, you are an idiot.

Posted by mousethief (# 953) on :

quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:

quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
"It's just one little ol' mistake" is the excuse that keeps white athlete privilege alive and well. Indeed it's the exact same idea behind letting rapists off the hook. Are you going to ruin this promising boy's life for just 20 minutes of action?
Oh just fuck you. Lochte tore a poster and kicked a door, he didn't rape anyone.

Thank you for completely misreading what I said. It's a talent.

Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :

quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:

quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:

quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
"It's just one little ol' mistake" is the excuse that keeps white athlete privilege alive and well. Indeed it's the exact same idea behind letting rapists off the hook. Are you going to ruin this promising boy's life for just 20 minutes of action?
Oh just fuck you. Lochte tore a poster and kicked a door, he didn't rape anyone.
Thank you for completely misreading what I said. It's a talent.

Have you ever noticed how many of us have this "talent"? You certainly refer to it often enough.

Posted by Doc Tor (# 9748) on :

quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
He did not have the courage or maturity to stop the train before it derailed.

He's 32. And an Olympic athlete.

True story. The Girl clipped wing mirrors with a parked car. She stopped. She picked up the debris (ours - cover came off, theirs - cover came off and was cracked). She knocked on the nearby doors until she found the owner of the car. She exchanged details with them. She came home and was mortified that she'd 'crashed the car'.

She's 18. Lochte can go fuck himself.

Posted by mousethief (# 953) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
Have you ever noticed how many of us have this "talent"? You certainly refer to it often enough.

Links?

Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :

quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:

quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
Have you ever noticed how many of us have this "talent"? You certainly refer to it often enough.
Links?

Recent posts on Purg in the US presidency thread show that you have few if any tactics other than crying "Mummy, the big boys don't understand me".

Sorry Bubba, they understand you just fine.

Posted by mousethief (# 953) on :

Links?

Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:

quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
He did not have the courage or maturity to stop the train before it derailed.

He's 32. And an Olympic athlete.

True story. The Girl clipped wing mirrors with a parked car. She stopped. She picked up the debris (ours - cover came off, theirs - cover came off and was cracked). She knocked on the nearby doors until she found the owner of the car. She exchanged details with them. She came home and was mortified that she'd 'crashed the car'.

She's 18. Lochte can go fuck himself.

You have previously shown at least the potential for intelligent thought. Try using that now, we'll ignore the smell as the dust of disuse burns off.
I am not defending his actions, and give zero fucks about him. Just saying the reaction is disproportionate.

Posted by Doc Tor (# 9748) on :

quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
You have previously shown at least the potential for intelligent thought.

That clearly makes me the favourite in our little 'discussion'...

Go wring your hankie somewhere else. This is Hell.

Posted by Golden Key (# 1468) on :

"Beam me up. There's no intelligent life on this planet." [Biased]

Posted by Anselmina (# 3032) on :

quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:

I am not defending his actions, and give zero fucks about him. Just saying the reaction is disproportionate.

I don't know the full extent of the reaction to this guy and his foolishness at the Olympics, so can't say if the reaction is really disproportionate. However, in many countries, alleging crime has taken place when it hasn't is a pretty serious crime in itself, to say nothing of wasting police time which is also viewed pretty seriously by many nations' authorities. Usually punishable in some significant way.

And it is a fairly serious thing that he was illegally accusing the nation who were being hospitable to him of robbery, when it was he who was guilty of unacceptable behaviour.

I don't know what else this 'disproportionate reaction' consists of - I don't believe in dog-piling - but it is entirely right he should lose the lucrative sponsorship deals, and should have some questions hanging over him now with regard to his future as an affluent athletic professional. Criminal, or near criminal, behaviour should be recognized for what it is and responded to.

Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Anselmina:

And it is a fairly serious thing that he was illegally accusing the nation who were being hospitable to him of robbery, when it was he who was guilty of unacceptable behaviour.

He didn't accuse a nation. He told a stupid, private lie that snowballed into public. He did minor vandalism and impugned the character of non-existent thieves.

He continued the lie and that caused some effort for the police and some consternation for the Rio Olympic officials.* And embarrassment to Americans. For this last paragraph, it is understandable that his sponsorship disappeared.
ISTM, he should at least appear in court for the false police report, vandalism and completely reimburse for the damage.

What he did not do is impugn Brazil, its people or its police. He deserves contempt, I'm not arguing that. Just think that the level is a little heavy. YMMV.

*Again, hard to care about their reputation, given the "alleged" forced clearances of favelas and human rights abuses and the likely return to normal levels of crime in the coming weeks. If not days.

quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:

quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
You have previously shown at least the potential for intelligent thought.
That clearly makes me the favourite in our little 'discussion'...

I'll admit this retort is passing clever.

quote:

Go wring your hankie somewhere else. This is Hell.

No moisture in my hankie, sweetie. I'm calling y'all on your fauxtrage.

Posted by Leorning Cniht (# 17564) on :

quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
He didn't accuse a nation. He told a stupid, private lie that snowballed into public. He did minor vandalism and impugned the character of non-existent thieves.

Seems to me that his lie is more or less equivalent to the guy who says he was mugged by three big black guys to cover up the fact that he lost his week's wages on the horses.

In the US or UK, muggers are big black guys. In Brazil, they're cops. Pick your stereotype.

Posted by Doc Tor (# 9748) on :

quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
I'm calling y'all on your fauxtrage.

I'm calling you on your fauxvirtue signalling. Like Lochte, you could have said nothing, and no one would have noticed...

Posted by RuthW (# 13) on :

quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
I'm calling y'all on your fauxtrage.

Who died and made you the ultimate arbiter of what does and should provoke outrage?

Posted by Leorning Cniht (# 17564) on :

quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
These complainers [about the hand-on-heart thing] are by and large the same people who said absolutely nothing when Donald Trump didn't put his hand on his heart during the Anthem at the Republican convention. Hard to think of anything other than racism that could explain this discrepancy.

Pole vaulter Sam Kendricks, who also serves in the US Army Reserve, slammed on the brakes in the middle of his run-up in order to stand to attention during the playing of the US national anthem. Everybody is busy saying what a great American he is and how patriotic and all the rest of it.

Where were his hands? By his sides, like Gabby's.

Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Leorning Cniht:
]Seems to me that his lie is more or less equivalent to the guy who says he was mugged by three big black guys to cover up the fact that he lost his week's wages on the horses.

In the US or UK, muggers are big black guys. In Brazil, they're cops. Pick your stereotype.

Nope. He said the muggers were dressed as cops. That is a real thing, there is even an American serial killer who did this. Even an American Presidential candidate.

quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:

quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
I'm calling y'all on your fauxtrage.
Who died and made you the ultimate arbiter of what does and should provoke outrage?

Never said I was. Didn't say you couldn't, not even that you shouldn't. But, I can't stop you from reading more into it than is there!

quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:

quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
I'm calling y'all on your fauxtrage.
I'm calling you on your fauxvirtue signalling.

I've never made the claim to virtue. Thanks for the laugh, I'm happy I was not drinking anything when I read this.

Posted by Golden Key (# 1468) on :

Rio police may have over-exaggerated, too. (Yahoo)

Posted by Anselmina (# 3032) on :

quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:

What he did not do is impugn Brazil, its people or its police. He deserves contempt, I'm not arguing that. Just think that the level is a little heavy. YMMV.

Quite right to say Brazil - as a government - impugns itself over its appalling record of how it treats its vulnerable people. But I'm quite sure if someone visited your country and then became the centre of an international shit-storm about how your fellow nationals beat him up and nicked his stuff, only for it transpire he was covering up committing some minor wreckage on your home turf, you'd be less flip about it.

Frankly, I don't care what happens to the guy. Brazil has bigger problems, which weren't helped by a privileged rich first-worlder telling fairy-stories to cover his own half-witted antics. In fact, he's probably done more damage by diverting attention away from the more serious stuff.

Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Anselmina:
But I'm quite sure if someone visited your country and then became the centre of an international shit-storm about how your fellow nationals beat him up and nicked his stuff, only for it transpire he was covering up committing some minor wreckage on your home turf, you'd be less flip about it.

You've got me wrong, sister. I'm going to be skeptical of police and security, no matter where they are from.
And in this case they lied, sorry {i]over-exaggerated[/i], to bolster their presentation of the events. Kinda like Lochte did. Not that this excuses Lochte, it doesn't.

Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :

So, on Tuesday I was watching a small group of grade school boys squabbling over a set of about 50 Hot Wheels cars. Two of them solved the problem by sitting on piles of the cars while the other two or three tried to snatch them out from underneath their butts.

While this was going on, a group of two girls and two boys used every block on the damn shelf to construct a walk- in castle with a gated entrance, a kid sized bedroom, and parking facilities for an entirely different set of toy cars that they were actually playing with rather than sitting on.

I dunno, it resonates with the current situation in Brazil.

UBB.classic^TM 6.5.0