Ship of Fools: The Trumpocalypse from abroad

Thread: The Trumpocalypse from abroad Board: Hell / Ship of Fools.

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Posted by ThunderBunk (# 15579) on :

Looking at Ariston's thread, it struck me how the impact of Trump's victory is different according to whether one is unfortunate enough to share his nationality.

We will all be fucked over by the Donaldocracy, but our shafting will be less direct, and altered by domestic considerations. I have no idea what this will do to the crowing going on in the more batshit elements of the European right - I expect some kind of simultaneous explosion from their various lairs.

Meanwhile, we in the UK are being taken over by UKIP-lite, as the Tory party relaxes into its native xenophobia while simultaneously selling the levers of power to the highest bidder in the name of being open for business.

2016, thank you. We're all fucked, each in our own way, and you have handed the entire globe its own bony arse on a mass-produced tin plate, made in an unregulated, polluting sweatshop.

Posted by mr cheesy (# 3330) on :

Hold onto your hat, I don't think it will be less direct. The European fascists will grow in strength boyed by this election, the incidious effects of Donaldism will have a long reach. That's before we even think about the financial markets and possible wars.

Posted by Eutychus (# 3081) on :

quote:
Originally posted by ThunderBunk:
I have no idea what this will do to the crowing going on in the more batshit elements of the European right

I must admit my second thought, after a moment of sympathy for those in the US, is that this will give Marine Le Pen a huge credibility boost.

The scariest thing is that Sarkozy is actually to the right of her on some policies.

Posted by ThunderBunk (# 15579) on :

Agreed, but given that precisely we don't have access to the US judiciary or legislature, and can't use any of the other checks and balances available to its citizens to ameliorate the impact, how do we do it? By what mechanism do we resist? How do we avoid the complacency that says that we can just sit back and watch while this madness remakes the world in its own image?

I just want to wake up. 2016 has to be an extended nightmare, surely?!

Posted by mr cheesy (# 3330) on :

quote:
Originally posted by ThunderBunk:
Agreed, but given that precisely we don't have access to the US judiciary or legislature, and can't use any of the other checks and balances available to its citizens to ameliorate the impact, how do we do it? By what mechanism do we resist? How do we avoid the complacency that says that we can just sit back and watch while this madness remakes the world in its own image?

We organise and we refuse to dance along to the tune they're playing. When the Nazis tried to force the Danes to give up their Jews, they all began to wear the hated Nazi symbols for Jews and they helped nearly all of their Jewish neighbours to escape.

Fascists are cowards. They believe in their own rhetoric and that they are strong, but in reality a small number of non co-operators can trip them up. It makes them seriously pissed off, but they can't fight soul power.

quote:
I just want to wake up. 2016 has to be an extended nightmare, surely?!

This is time to declare the year of the Lord's favour and the day of the vengeance of the Lord.

We were born for this time.

Posted by iamchristianhearmeroar (# 15483) on :

Not going to be good for any of us. What a shit storm.

Posted by Eutychus (# 3081) on :

quote:
Originally posted by mr cheesy:
This is time to declare the year of the Lord's favour and the day of the vengeance of the Lord.

The first part, yes. The second part, not so much.

Jesus stopped mid-verse and I think we should too until such time as advised otherwise.

Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :

Where the fuck is He, then?

Posted by mr cheesy (# 3330) on :

Use whatever phrases you need to feed your internal reserves of soul force. France is next, you're going to need to build up your spiritual muscles there too.

Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :

I think after a blow like this, Christ's followers deserve a huge fucking spectacular Gideon's fleece. Something along the lines of the Dead Sea parting.

Posted by Eutychus (# 3081) on :

I think vengeance is God's prerogative.

Kelly, at the risk of being cheesy, Jesus promises to be with us always, even to the end of the age. The Kingdom of God isn't most visible in political institutions and mass media.

It comes in the mustard seed variety of the Holy Spirit being within our weak and sinful hearts, whatever the prevailing context, working within you and me to affect our "neighbour", however insignificant that may appear.

Posted by mr cheesy (# 3330) on :

What Euty said. Don't be bitter Kelly.

We can choose to believe that Jesus has left us in the dark or we can choose to believe in the tiny candle burning in the darkness. Please choose the light.

Posted by Anglican't (# 15292) on :

Here's a (contrary) thought: we have a President-Elect who doesn't have to prove himself after a mixed term as Secretary State. We have a President-Elect who appears to be pally towards, rather than antagonistic towards, Russia, and who could do a deal with North Korea without losing face. Is the world actually a little bit safer now?

Posted by mr cheesy (# 3330) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Eutychus:
I think vengeance is God's prerogative.

I can see this is a problematic phrase. But it seems clear to me that the "vengence" of God is dishing out to people what they dish out to others.

Being the loving, caring, counter-cultural hopeful response is being the vengeance.

Posted by mr cheesy (# 3330) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Anglican't:
Here's a (contrary) thought: we have a President-Elect who doesn't have to prove himself after a mixed term as Secretary State. We have a President-Elect who appears to be pally towards, rather than antagonistic towards, Russia, and who could do a deal with North Korea without losing face. Is the world actually a little bit safer now?

Erm, no.

Posted by Eutychus (# 3081) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Anglican't:
Here's a (contrary) thought: we have a President-Elect who doesn't have to prove himself after a mixed term as Secretary State. We have a President-Elect who appears to be pally towards, rather than antagonistic towards, Russia, and who could do a deal with North Korea without losing face. Is the world actually a little bit safer now?

I look forward to seeing how he can "bomb the shit out of ISIS", notaby in Syria, without getting into a confrontation with Russia.

Posted by Eutychus (# 3081) on :

quote:
Originally posted by mr cheesy:
I can see this is a problematic phrase. But it seems clear to me that the "vengence" of God is dishing out to people what they dish out to others.

Not clear to me. And especially not clear to me is taking that vengeance into our own hands.

If we got our just desserts, none of us would be here.

Posted by mr cheesy (# 3330) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Eutychus:
Not clear to me. And especially not clear to me is taking that vengeance into our own hands.

If we got our just desserts, none of us would be here.

Fascists hate those who disagree and refuse to participate in their other-hatred that loving actions are like pouring hot coals onto their heads. To the one who is consumed by hatred, loving is a form of torture.

Posted by Eutychus (# 3081) on :

I tend to agree, but this is emphatically not what the NT defines as divine vengeance. See for instance Rom 12:

quote:
Do not avenge yourselves, beloved, but leave room for God’s wrath. For it is written: “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay, says the Lord.” On the contrary, “If your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him a drink. For in so doing, you will heap burning coals on his head.”…

Posted by mr cheesy (# 3330) on :

OK, let's not keep talking about this tangent, if you don't like the idea of loving actions being God's vengeance, I don't much mind. Do it anyway.

Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :

quote:
Originally posted by mr cheesy:
What Euty said. Don't be bitter Kelly.

We can choose to believe that Jesus has left us in the dark or we can choose to believe in the tiny candle burning in the darkness. Please choose the light.

Bitter, bitter, bitter. Aids the digestion.

I'm wondering how many kids I worked with this year will be deported. If the Saints gathered round the throne of Heaven can wail,"How long, oh Lord?" I guess I can chime in with them. It's kind of counter- Biblical for you to assume that means I am not choosing the light.

Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :

Anyway, sorry, this is the International Horror Show thread. Carry on.

Posted by Eutychus (# 3081) on :

Contrary to popular Christian belief and any BS you may have heard about a "root of bitterness", being bitter has an illustrious pedigree and is fully justifiable (certainly seems to be here).

(See Ruth: "call me bitter").

The challenge is indeed in digesting it so it strengthens your resolve rather than rotting your guts.

[Votive]

Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :

Stop lecturing me, Euty, I am every bit as Christian as you are. [Smile]

Oh, but before I leave the international Black Hole of Despair thread, can I just thank this hilarious little limey expat fuckstick for being just oh so goddamn funny?

The minute I saw this bit the other night I thought,"Oooh, he better not win, because if he does, I'm gonna reflexively hate John Oliver on sight for, like, two weeks."

(And I actually chuckled at that, Euty, so stop wringing your hands at me.)

Posted by Eutychus (# 3081) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
Oh, but before I leave the international Black Hole of Despair thread, can I just thank this hilarious little limey expat fuckstick for being just oh so goddamn funny?

That mostly got me a trailer for the latest Dan Brown movie, Inferno [Ultra confused]

Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :

Oh, just perfect.

Posted by Marvin the Martian (# 4360) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Anglican't:
We have a President-Elect who appears to be pally towards, rather than antagonistic towards, Russia, and who could do a deal with North Korea without losing face. Is the world actually a little bit safer now?

Ask Estonia, Lithuania, Latvia, Ukraine, Georgia, etc. if they feel safer now that Putin knows the US won't do anything if he decides to reabsorb them into Russia.

For that matter, ask yourself if you feel safer knowing that a thin-skinned manchild who is incapable of ignoring even the most minor of slights now has access to the launch codes of the second-biggest nuclear arsenal in the world.

Posted by la vie en rouge (# 10688) on :

I also don’t feel safer knowing that Marine Lepen has just seen the racist bigot vote take control of the world’s richest democracy.

Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on :

I have only a few years' life expectancy, and I (thankfully, in a sad sort of way) don't have any kids or grandkids. If I did, I'd be shit-scared about the sort of world they'd be growing up in...

..but maybe 2017 will end it for us all in a nuclear winter. courtesy of Trump and Putin, infantile idiot tyrants both...

America, what the fuck have you done?

IJ

Posted by Wesley J (# 6075) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Bishops Finger:
[...] maybe 2017 will end it for us all in a nuclear winter. [...]

There's a positive side to that, too, ya know. It sure would end Global Warming.

Posted by Golden Key (# 1468) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
I think after a blow like this, Christ's followers deserve a huge fucking spectacular Gideon's fleece. Something along the lines of the Dead Sea parting.

Not to mention not having the Bible thrown at them. And not being urged to avoid bitterness while the event is still happening.

Job's friends come to mind...

Posted by RuthW (# 13) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
Stop lecturing me, Euty, I am every bit as Christian as you are.

I am so fucking tired of Eutychus trying to tell people here how to be a Christian. Christians got this asshole elected. And I don't fucking care whether Jesus is still with us or not when this election will cost people their lives.

Posted by Penny S (# 14768) on :

I am finding a part of myself going down a path indicated by the title of this thread. I have never, ever, thought that End Times was credible.

We now have someone 'elected' by a crazy system (and I know ours can be just as bad) in which more people vote for one person, and the other, the Anti-Christ, gets in, voted for by the people who have been angling for the apocalypse and think they are on the right side. You know all those nice people who died this year? How many others that aren't celebs have gone? Just suppose the rapture is going to happen in the normal way of going to God?

Please excuse me while I listen to H G Wells postulating the new world after Ragnarok. And ponder the absence of politics specific viruses.

And that I must not fall into the trap of being as nasty as the trumphalists who are sneeringly rejoicing.

[ 09. November 2016, 14:58: Message edited by: Penny S ]

Posted by quetzalcoatl (# 16740) on :

quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:

quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
Stop lecturing me, Euty, I am every bit as Christian as you are.
I am so fucking tired of Eutychus trying to tell people here how to be a Christian. Christians got this asshole elected. And I don't fucking care whether Jesus is still with us or not when this election will cost people their lives.

That's the bit of the exit poll that made me nearly faint. Was it 80% of evangelicals who voted for the Trumpinator? WTF?

I suppose they justify this with a kind of sleazy sleight of hand, but come on, God, why can't you just shove them in the furnace now? I guess that's not Christian, ha ha. What a pile of steaming horse shite.

Posted by Eutychus (# 3081) on :

I will do my best to repent of sanctimoniousness if you will stop lumping me in with the 80%.

Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on :

Despite myself, I can't quite see The Tiny-Fingered Orange Messiah With The Worst Hair Cut Ever as the Anti-Christ.

Most depictions of the Anti-Christ show him as starting off, at least, as Mr. Nice Guy, only showing his true Satanic Colours later on.

TTFOMWTWHCE, however, is ghastly from the outset, as has been plainly shown.

IJ

Posted by quetzalcoatl (# 16740) on :

I was going to say something about bullies, and the Stockholm syndrome, but it's just more fucking words, to add to the stinking pile that has been formed recently. I think I need to switch off politics for a while, watch TV, dig my allotment, start not collecting stamps again! Hey, look, I laughed, and didn't cry.

Posted by no prophet's flag is set so... (# 15560) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
I think after a blow like this, Christ's followers deserve a huge fucking spectacular Gideon's fleece. Something along the lines of the Dead Sea parting.

No, it doesn't work that way does it. It is said "where was God at Auschwitz?", which is answered "where was humanity?".

My 88 year old father is having nightmares of fleeing Berlin in 1936. He told me of a newsreel where Hitler was filmed tickling toddlers and laughing with them, asking when Dolfie Groper* will start kissing babies to soften his image and build trust.

*Okay, he didn't call him that.

Posted by Penny S (# 14768) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Bishops Finger:
Despite myself, I can't quite see The Tiny-Fingered Orange Messiah With The Worst Hair Cut Ever as the Anti-Christ.

Most depictions of the Anti-Christ show him as starting off, at least, as Mr. Nice Guy, only showing his true Satanic Colours later on.

TTFOMWTWHCE, however, is ghastly from the outset, as has been plainly shown.

IJ

We've seen him as ghastly from the off - but many have seen him as their saviour, haven't they?

I must get back to what I am supposed to be doing, which is producing our neighbourhood's newsletter. And the much put off piece about parking, which is what is going to cause rumpuses hereabouts with the few (about 4 out of 142 households) who go straight from noticing the car on the path by their window again to major confrontation with shouting and punches without anything sensible in between. Which I've got to write nicely.

Posted by Wesley J (# 6075) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Bishops Finger:
[...] TTFOMWTWHCE [...]

Please elaborate?

Posted by ThunderBunk (# 15579) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Bishops Finger:
The Tiny-Fingered Orange Messiah With The Worst Hair Cut Ever

Posted by Wesley J (# 6075) on :

I'm thunderstruck. Ta and oh dear.

Posted by rolyn (# 16840) on :

quote:
Originally posted by quetzalcoatl:
I was going to say something about bullies, and the Stockholm syndrome, but it's just more fucking words, to add to the stinking pile that has been formed recently. I think I need to switch off politics for a while, watch TV, dig my allotment, start not collecting stamps again! Hey, look, I laughed, and didn't cry.

My sentiments as well.
It's days like today when I'm glad to have an outdoor job to go to, even if it is pissing with rain.

I would though like to take this opportunity to call Opinion Polls to Hell. I mean WTF waste of time and fucking money that was. It wasn't won by a whisker, it was a convincing defeat for Clinton, the exact opposite of what Pollsters were consistently telling the World right up to just 24hrs ago.

Whatever.

[ 09. November 2016, 18:07: Message edited by: rolyn ]

Posted by SvitlanaV2 (# 16967) on :

quote:
Originally posted by quetzalcoatl:
Was it 80% of evangelicals who voted for the Trumpinator? WTF?

I suppose they justify this with a kind of sleazy sleight of hand, but come on, God, why can't you just shove them in the furnace now? I guess that's not Christian, ha ha. What a pile of steaming horse shite.

To be fair, it was hardly as if Hillary was interested in the evangelical vote. She never even pretended to care about evangelicals, did she?

IMO this outcome shows how weak American evangelicals have become. If no one on the Right could find a convincing Christian candidate with broad appeal, but had to take a coarse, unspiritual, blatantly unpleasant character as their saviour instead, it just proves how deeply in the doo-doo they are. (But why couldn't the Democrats have found a more engaging candidate themselves?)

Not sure I'm too shocked and worried, because the world was heading for hell in a handcart anyway, and maybe it just means the old church ladies were right: Jesus is coming back soon....

Posted by Louise (# 30) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Anglican't:
Here's a (contrary) thought: we have a President-Elect who doesn't have to prove himself after a mixed term as Secretary State. We have a President-Elect who appears to be pally towards, rather than antagonistic towards, Russia, and who could do a deal with North Korea without losing face. Is the world actually a little bit safer now?

You are George Galloway and I claim my five pounds. [Killing me]

Posted by molopata (# 9933) on :

What was the voter turn out, actually? I mean, has anyone seen any estimates? All I can see is that there are three states that are still uncalled, as if they said, "it's no fucking good anyway", and then just walked a way from heaps of unsorted ballot papers.

Posted by Doc Tor (# 9748) on :

I've seen figures that barely scrape 55%.

Which, frankly, is shameful.

Posted by Alan Cresswell (# 31) on :

I've seen figures even lower, at around 52%. If you can't even get half the adult population to vote, is there some mechanism to declare the result void and start again with a new set of candidates?

Posted by molopata (# 9933) on :

If so, that might go along way to explaining what went wrong. Too many people didn't hold their noses and just vote Hillary like they should have, being too principled and not prepared to go for the lesser of the two evils like the rather more pragmatic French did in Chirac vs. Le Pen in the 2002 presidential election.

Posted by molopata (# 9933) on :

I might actually take heart from that. It is not a exactly a resounding endorsement for Trump (or Clinton, of course), if the silent majority is so silent it hardly bothers vote.
If this point can be made loud enough, then maybe it might just force T to work hard in order to satisfy them and perhaps get their mandate for a second four years.

There again, that might just be me fantasising in a fit of fevered desperation.

Posted by Jay-Emm (# 11411) on :

[Turnout, could increased turnout in the form of people adapting a "vote for least-evil" approach or just not being lazy or ... have changed things]

Depends where they were, I guess.

To some extent if they were Hillary voters in New York or Trump in (well in hindsight even Pensylvania) in terms of actual effect it would only make it a more convincing polarization and reduce the time till polls are estimated.

It would also make the total figure even more relevant (you could in theory always add national electors pro-rata or even per million).

In which case while shameful, and very risky the outcome can't be blamed. Even if it were 48% of the population.

Similarly to a lesser extent when in the opposition safeholds. Except of course 48% of American's can't all be in losing states. And every extra vote makes the percentage look more even.

I gather Florida was record breaking for both sides, which is consistent to safe seats being voter suppressing to some extent.

But that leaves the unexpected swingers...

[ 09. November 2016, 22:52: Message edited by: Jay-Emm ]

Posted by Jay-Emm (# 11411) on :

Hmm, Florida has a population of 20mil (so at least 10mil voters surely)

Bush-Gore had 3mil each (I didn't want to look)
For somewhere so decisive that looks a bit rubbish.[though Brexit was about the same nationally too]

[ 09. November 2016, 23:05: Message edited by: Jay-Emm ]

Posted by Alan Cresswell (# 31) on :

This page breaks things down by state with 55.6% overall. Some states high 60s turnout, which still seems low if those were the key battles. Presumably somewhere like Hawaii was so safe that people really did see no point in voting.

Posted by rolyn (# 16840) on :

Could why Pollsters screwed up. Spent too long questioning people who never even set foot inside a voting booth.

Posted by RuthW (# 13) on :

No, they screwed up because they screened out people whom they view as unlikely to vote - people who have not voted in prior elections - not recognizing that Trump's candidacy would motivate some of those folks to turn out.

Also, this was not a resounding win for Trump. Clinton won the popular vote. She lost because of how her votes are distributed.

Posted by Callan (# 525) on :

Ironically, she got a larger share of the vote than Bill. Where's Ross Perot when you need him?

Posted by no prophet's flag is set so... (# 15560) on :

I have a family member who has decided to never say this man's name again. Currently he is President-elect Sexual Assault.

Is it reasonable that any female politicians meeting with him always bring someone along, and refuse to meet alone?

Posted by Penny S (# 14768) on :

Our lovely toad joins in:

Farridge takes the blame.

Posted by mr cheesy (# 3330) on :

*&%$

What else is there to say?

Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :

quote:
Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:
I have a family member who has decided to never say this man's name again. Currently he is President-elect Sexual Assault.

Is it reasonable that any female politicians meeting with him always bring someone along, and refuse to meet alone?

I was thinking about this, and if I could arrange such a thing, I would require all major news outlets to send women to do press junkets, interviews, etc ( with escorts, of course.) I would really love to see him forced to deal with the women of the Fourth Estate for the next four years.

...

Got up this morning, and was sad to note I was really happy I am not going to a Headstart today. Usually I am; for the last ten years or so, I have pretty much gotten to know evey Head Start on the Peninsula. Last time I was in one was Tusday afternoon, and as I left, the Latina staff members were exhorting me to "vote Hillary!"

I don't think I could look them in the eye today.

Posted by Callan (# 525) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Penny S:
Our lovely toad joins in:

Farridge takes the blame.

What a nasty, racist, cockwomble that man is. Russell Brand once called him a Poundshop Enoch Powell. This strikes me as conspicuously unfair to Poundshop and, if Powell were still alive, potentially defamatory.

Posted by Firenze (# 619) on :

I am pleased to say that Scotland's First Minister intends to call it as she sees it.

Posted by Penny S (# 14768) on :

Good for her.
I am getting tired of people who say we 'must respect' the choices others have made when those choices are anything but respectable.
Acknowledge that they have made them, perhaps. Plan how to work with them, necessary.
But respect? Which implies worthiness. That can't be right. It just shows how people use language having totally forgotten it has meaning.
Merkel was pretty careful with her words.

Posted by Alan Cresswell (# 31) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Firenze:
I am pleased to say that Scotland's First Minister intends to call it as she sees it.

She also might want to consider taking Farage to task over his statement that Turnberry is in "his country". Though, there is value in simply ignoring his idiotic spoutings.

Posted by no prophet's flag is set so... (# 15560) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
I don't think I could look them in the eye today.

Do look them in the eye I think. Remember that little bits of goodness, gentleness, kindness and courage exist in all people, however we try to eliminate them. Traces of horriblesness, brutality, smugness, and cruelty also exist. When the awfullest things happen, we don't need to to panic. The things which make us truly human and decent are always within our reach. I'm one for waving our little arms, speaking the truth and from the heart with our little voices. All the world shall meet the forces of darkness and despair, realizing, I think, right now for Americans, and perhaps the whole world, that the enemy may be us if we don't hold our heads high and meet the sad and angry eyes, bringing those truly human things with us, and to them. (just saying)

Posted by Alan Cresswell (# 31) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
Last time I was in one was Tusday afternoon, and as I left, the Latina staff members were exhorting me to "vote Hillary!"

I don't think I could look them in the eye today.

Do look them in the eye. Hug them. Cry with them. Tell them you voted Hillary, that you encouraged your friends to vote Hillary too. Tell them that you live in a democracy, that joining together you can all continue to protect those most vulnerable, even from the fascism of the President-elect. It is your right and duty as citizens of a democracy to stand together for what is right and good, to defend the country from enemies foreign and domestic - even enemies in the White House. Stand together. Never give up. Never surrender. Remember, the majority of Americans didn't vote for Trump.

Posted by Marvin the Martian (# 4360) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
She also might want to consider taking Farage to task over his statement that Turnberry is in "his country".

The last time I looked, Turnberry was as much a part of the UK as Bromley.

Posted by Alan Cresswell (# 31) on :

Not for much longer if Farage gets his way.

Posted by Marvin the Martian (# 4360) on :

As far as I can see, he's been consistently against Scottish independence.

Posted by North East Quine (# 13049) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Firenze:
I am pleased to say that Scotland's First Minister intends to call it as she sees it.

This dates back six months, but all five of Scotland's political leaders seem to hold Trump in low esteem.

I particularly like Labour leader Kezia Dugdale's assessment of him: "the guy's an arse."

Posted by Teekeey Misha (# 18604) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
As far as I can see, he's been consistently against Scottish independence.

But surely he can see that Scottish independence is "Brexit plus plus plus" plus?

Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on :

Is 'dingying' the Scottish equivalent of grabbing cats?

Lovely word, anyhoo...

(Full marks to Nicola Sturgeon for her robust attitude to the Canteen Dessert lookalike - O just imagine her working together as Scotland's First Minister with Michelle Obama as England's PM!).

IJ

Posted by North East Quine (# 13049) on :

"Dingying" means cold-shouldering. "Deal with him or dingy him?" means "Would you work with him, or not?"

Posted by Alan Cresswell (# 31) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
As far as I can see, he's been consistently against Scottish independence.

Aye, but first he pushes for exiting from the EU, against the will of the majority of the UK populace and especially the population of Scotland.

Then each time he opens his gob thousands more in Scotland think "Independence may be expensive, but it will be worth it just to be able to say 'that gob shite is nothing to do with us'".

Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on :

Thanks, NEQ - I thought that's what it meant, but I was trying to be ironic (or snarky) towards the Canteen Dessert Lookalike...

As my late Ma's family came originally from Dumfriesshire, I like to pick up bits of the language when I can!

[Razz]

Posted by Teekeey Misha (# 18604) on :

Why did I read this and think the voters of Oceanside had made a better decision than the voters of the US as a whole?

Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on :

Because they did.

IJ

Posted by Penny S (# 14768) on :

Do you suppose toadface has picked up a sense of divine purpose as a result of surviving tht air crash? Like a certain WWI corporal did from escaping death?

[ 10. November 2016, 19:09: Message edited by: Penny S ]

Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on :

Penny S, are you referring to Trump or Garbage? Either way, ISWYM...

IJ

Posted by Penny S (# 14768) on :

Farrago, who crashed in a light aircraft towing a slogan close to a previous election day, and managed to survive somehow.
Has Trump had a similar near death experience?

Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on :

Thanks for the clarification!

Maybe Trump will also have a near death experience soon, which will hopefully make him a better man. Farrago/Garbage's accident obviously didn't...

IJ

Posted by Alan Cresswell (# 31) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Penny S:
Has Trump had a similar near death experience?

Not yet.

Posted by Wesley J (# 6075) on :

Sir David Attenborough apparently suggests 'Shoot him' re the TFO.

Posted by Jay-Emm (# 11411) on :

I can only see that making things worse, even the Herod fate would probably allow conspiracy.

A lightning strike maybe (perhaps the thunder could echo, "read what I f***ing wrote").

Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:

quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
Last time I was in one was Tusday afternoon, and as I left, the Latina staff members were exhorting me to "vote Hillary!"

I don't think I could look them in the eye today.
Do look them in the eye. Hug them. Cry with them. Tell them you voted Hillary, that you encouraged your friends to vote Hillary too. Tell them that you live in a democracy, that joining together you can all continue to protect those most vulnerable, even from the fascism of the President-elect. It is your right and duty as citizens of a democracy to stand together for what is right and good, to defend the country from enemies foreign and domestic - even enemies in the White House. Stand together. Never give up. Never surrender. Remember, the majority of Americans didn't vote for Trump.

If I were in a room with just the adults, I'd be permitted to do just that-- and happy to do so. You don't have the luxury of breaking down in front of kids. It would be fantastic if it was a general philosophy in childcare centers to adjust the curriculum to community impacting events, in fact I wish they could, but only rich kids in emergent curriculum based preschools will get that luxury. Maybe. Federally funded programs will have to hit their marks. No matter what.

So yeah, on the one hand my heart was there all day, on the other, I'm not really sorry I was lucky enough to get some prep time. I just wish they could have it, too. At least there is a holiday.

I am scheduled at a Head Start next week. That gives me a time to process through this a little, put on my teacher face, and help the ladies hit their marks. And think of covert ways to show sisterhood.

[ 10. November 2016, 21:12: Message edited by: Kelly Alves ]

Posted by Martin60 (# 368) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Eutychus:

quote:
Originally posted by mr cheesy:
This is time to declare the year of the Lord's favour and the day of the vengeance of the Lord.
The first part, yes. The second part, not so much.

Jesus stopped mid-verse and I think we should too until such time as advised otherwise.

I'll quote you to Jamat elsewhere. It won't do any good.

Posted by Pangolin Guerre (# 18686) on :

quote:
Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:
I have a family member who has decided to never say this man's name again. Currently he is President-elect Sexual Assault.

Since President-elect Sexual Assault is a bit awkward, might I suggest the Dan Savage approach? When Sen. Rick Santorum was at his worst, Savage had a contest to change Santorum into a common noun or verb. The winning definition for santorum was, "the frothy combination of lubricant and fecal matter after anal sex." (It now is the first result on google.)

Some thing like, "Jeez, someone must have roofied me last night, cuz now I feel like someone trumped me all night long. I can barely walk." Just a thought.

Posted by Alan Cresswell (# 31) on :

Just a very disturbing thought. [Projectile]

Posted by Pangolin Guerre (# 18686) on :

Well, Alan, chaqu'un son goo.

Posted by RuthW (# 13) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Pangolin Guerre:
Well, Alan, chaqu'un son goo.

Thanks, I needed a laugh!

Posted by Eutychus (# 3081) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Pangolin Guerre:
Some thing like, "Jeez, someone must have roofied me last night, cuz now I feel like someone trumped me all night long. I can barely walk." Just a thought.

How is attempting to turn someone's name into a verb for (anal?) date rape different from constantly referring to one's opponent as Illary or Killary?

Posted by Penny S (# 14768) on :

Some person with an unused section of their intelligence has been suggesting the use of Forage as a liaison with Trump for the UK. Roundly shot down.

The good people go and we are left with the dregs. Another one gone tonight.

Posted by Doc Tor (# 9748) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Pangolin Guerre:
Well, Alan, chaqu'un son goo.

At the risk of spoiling the joke, even a French language pun, we do insist that words not in the common English lexicon are translated for the benefit of those lingually challenged, either in the same post or very shortly after.

Thank you for your cooperation.

DT
HH

Posted by rolyn (# 16840) on :

Had a picture of the Donald adorning the front of our local rag yesterday. Can't think why. Every time I walked past it I thought -- who in heck does that face remind me of. Then it came to me , Richard Baseheart.

Sorry Dicky bit of a dead ringer I afraid. Thinking more Satan Bug than Voyage to to bottom...

Posted by Wyclif (# 5391) on :

Getting back to Trump, I found this post, written by a Durham PhD, the best and most nuanced analysis I've seen from the UK about what actually happened (rather than what the wonks and pundits predicted):

https://alastairadversaria.com/2016/11/10/how-social-justice-ideology-gave-us-donald-trump/

Keep in mind before you read it that it is *not* in defense of Trump.

Posted by mr cheesy (# 3330) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Wyclif:
Getting back to Trump, I found this post, written by a Durham PhD, the best and most nuanced analysis I've seen from the UK about what actually happened (rather than what the wonks and pundits predicted)

Just goes to show that having a doctorate isn't insulation against being a dick and talking shite.

Posted by Ariel (# 58) on :

The Daily Star's front page yesterday had "No, it wasn't a dream, folks, THE WORLD REALLY IS DONALD DUCKED" which I felt worked on several levels.

Posted by Stephen (# 40) on :

I'm amazed nobody's come up with that crack before though Ariel, although possibly it's more a Brit thing than American?

'Quacking well are we Donald?'......
[Two face]

Posted by chris stiles (# 12641) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Wyclif:
Getting back to Trump, I found this post, written by a Durham PhD, the best and most nuanced analysis I've seen from the UK about what actually happened (rather than what the wonks and pundits predicted):

https://alastairadversaria.com/2016/11/10/how-social-justice-ideology-gave-us-donald-trump/

So I have his blog on my blog-roll (and also followed in it's previous incarnation), but I think over time a lack of editing and verbosity serves to hide bad arguments, which is even more evident in his subsequent blogpost here:

https://alastairadversaria.com/2016/11/10/further-thoughts-how-social-justice-ideology-fuels-racism-and-sexism/

Take his complaints about SJWs:

"Why are the austere lines of a Manichaean ideology preferred over a social reality that is more tractable to charitable persuasion, forging of common ground, maintenance of relations across ideological divides, and working together despite differences?"

Yes, because a 'social reality that is more tractable to charitable persuasion' summarises the ways in which the right have tried to deal with feminists, blacks and the LBGT community over the years.

Which confirms my opinion that the majority of people who use the term 'social justice warriors' are <insert epithet here>

As some of the commentators on the piece you linked point out - the coarsening of debate that he bemoans has long been the in-currency of the right [wrt any comments thread on sites like littlegreenfootballs back in the day, or various subreddits these days).

Posted by mr cheesy (# 3330) on :

It just uses a faux objectivity to pretend that those who somehow see the freedoms enshrined and distributed to others as a threat are being reasonable.

That's not a rational argument. That's on the level of saying those who didn't want to overthrow Jim Crow had a reasonable point and should have been listened to.

No.

Posted by Amanda B. Reckondwythe (# 5521) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:

quote:
Originally posted by Pangolin Guerre:
Well, Alan, chaqu'un son goo.
At the risk of spoiling the joke, even a French language pun, we do insist that words not in the common English lexicon are translated for the benefit of those lingually challenged, either in the same post or very shortly after.

Thank you for your cooperation.

DT
HH

Will someone kindly let us linguistically challenged folk in on the joke?

Posted by Eutychus (# 3081) on :

It means "each to his own (taste)" (chacun son goût).

Posted by mousethief (# 953) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Eutychus:
It means "each to his own (taste)" (chacun son goût).

The joke being that "goût" (taste) is pronounced "goo" and it is here referring to santorum (the goo).

[ 11. November 2016, 12:04: Message edited by: mousethief ]

Posted by Tubbs (# 440) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
Where the fuck is He, then?

Probably bawling out the person on the design team who said that free will was a good idea.

Tubbs

Posted by quetzalcoatl (# 16740) on :

On sabbatical.

Posted by no prophet's flag is set so... (# 15560) on :

Still reviewing important things lije the size of mango seeds and nipples on men. The report on the Black Death is due next century.

Posted by Nick Tamen (# 15164) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Stephen:
I'm amazed nobody's come up with that crack before though Ariel, although possibly it's more a Brit thing than American?

Rhyming slang? Yeah, probably lost on most Americans.

[ 11. November 2016, 14:16: Message edited by: Nick Tamen ]

Posted by Alan Cresswell (# 31) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Nick Tamen:

quote:
Originally posted by Stephen:
I'm amazed nobody's come up with that crack before though Ariel, although possibly it's more a Brit thing than American?
Rhyming slang? Yeah, probably lost on most Americans.

They wouldn't have a scooby.

Posted by mousethief (# 953) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:

quote:
Originally posted by Nick Tamen:

quote:
Originally posted by Stephen:
I'm amazed nobody's come up with that crack before though Ariel, although possibly it's more a Brit thing than American?
Rhyming slang? Yeah, probably lost on most Americans.
They wouldn't have a scooby.

Nice! Cockney slang based on an American TV show. Even the most English of the English can't escape our omnipresent touch.

Posted by Alan Cresswell (# 31) on :

quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
Nice! Cockney slang based on an American TV show. Even the most English of the English can't escape our omnipresent touch.

If America had the global impact and reach of some little island off the coast of Europe then you could just go and elect whoever you like, and it wouldn't bother us. Unfortunately, America isn't and so the election of a petulant child as President will have global ramifications.

Posted by mousethief (# 953) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:

quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
Nice! Cockney slang based on an American TV show. Even the most English of the English can't escape our omnipresent touch.
If America had the global impact and reach of some little island off the coast of Europe then you could just go and elect whoever you like, and it wouldn't bother us. Unfortunately, America isn't and so the election of a petulant child as President will have global ramifications.

You say this as if I don't know it. You say this as if millions of Americans weren't in mourning for their country, or afraid for their lives after documented bullying and violence has broken out in the name of Donald Trump and Whiteness. You say this as if the rest of the world is going to suffer more than America. (I could buy that about Iran, which will undoubtedly be bombed into smithereens, God help them.)

Posted by Alan Cresswell (# 31) on :

Actually, I only said it as being an attempted smart-arse way of ending a tangent and returning to the subject of the thread.

Posted by Ariel (# 58) on :

The equivalent here would be if a snap election was called and Ukip romped home with the vote and Nigel Farage became the next Prime Minister.

I wonder how France and Germany will fare in their forthcoming elections. It wouldn't surprise me if they went in a similar direction.

Posted by dyfrig (# 15) on :

Marine Le Pen's pretty up beat - the World Service says she reckons thay if the pollsters got Brexit and Trump wrong, they're probably wrong about her getting trounced in the second round* of the Presidential election.

* she seems a dead cert for winning the poay offs, apparently

Posted by Doc Tor (# 9748) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
The equivalent here would be if a snap election was called and Ukip romped home with the vote and Nigel Farage became the next Prime Minister.

May has outflanked UKIP on the right, so there's no prospect of that.

Posted by Huia (# 3473) on :

My knowledge of UK politic is miniscule, but I distrust any statements about there being no chance of any particular thing happening.

Huia

Posted by Eutychus (# 3081) on :

quote:
Originally posted by dyfrig:
Marine Le Pen's pretty up beat - the World Service says she reckons thay if the pollsters got Brexit and Trump wrong, they're probably wrong about her getting trounced in the second round* of the Presidential election.

* she seems a dead cert for winning the poay offs, apparently

Of course a week is a long time in politics, but barring accidents Marine Le Pen will certainly make it through to the second round, although perhaps not in first place. The left is a complete shambles. Juppé looks set to win the right-wing primary and comes across as a safe bet compared to Le Pen. If Sarkozy were to win, it would be hard to know what to do. Like May with UKIP, he has moved to the right of Le Pen on some policies. It is scary listening to her comment on some issues and finding she makes more sense than any mainstream politician.

Could Le Pen could actually win? It's a possibility and has become a lot more plausible this week, thereby making it more likely in my view. The big question is whether voters would then be consistent and vote in a Front National government in the general election that follows a little later. Or whether she'd make a stab at governing by executive decree, which is theoretically possible under the French constitution.

Put it this way, I'm trying hard to draw lessons from across the pond because there is every chance France is next in line for this sort of thing.

Posted by rolyn (# 16840) on :

If the Reformation spread in the way it did long before mass communication was ever conceived then this sucker is set to fall quicker than a line of dominos.

Posted by Pangolin Guerre (# 18686) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:

quote:
Originally posted by Pangolin Guerre:
Well, Alan, chaqu'un son goo.
At the risk of spoiling the joke, even a French language pun, we do insist that words not in the common English lexicon are translated for the benefit of those lingually challenged, either in the same post or very shortly after.

Thank you for your cooperation.

DT
HH

Chaqu'un son gout[circonflex over the 'u' of gout, but I can't figure out how to do it] = Each [to] his/her taste. 'Gout' sounds very much like 'goo', hence the bilingual pun, each to his own goo, in reference to santorum.

Enjoy the veal.

Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :

Gross, gross, gross, gross. Can we all agree to pick a definition of Trump that avoids the chance of impeding on our sexual experience? I don't want that freaking name popping up in the middle of... whatever.

Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :

Ooo, wait, that is a good one, actually. "Getting Trumped" is when you are in the brink of orgasm and the WRONG image pops in your head.

Kinda works as a metaphor for election night, really.

Posted by Wyclif (# 5391) on :

[/QUOTE]Just goes to show that having a doctorate isn't insulation against being a dick and talking shite. [/QB][/QUOTE]

The author is actually quite intelligent and nuanced, which makes me think you didn't read the piece, nor did you note that it's not actually a pro-Trump article. Read it before you further embarrass yourself.

Posted by Wyclif (# 5391) on :

This is highly relevant as an analysis of the American scene, particularly the PC doctrine in the universities and resultant attempts to snuff out dissent:

"The narratives of feminism, gender, and race theory provide a comforting prophylactic against the intrusion of unwelcome reality on many fronts. Being assured that you are a victim of evil social forces, hateful individuals, and dark structural processes conspiring against your success can be a comforting belief when the alternative is to admit the possibility of a natural reality or a broadly unavoidable social reality that doesn’t function according to our egalitarian prejudices. The possibility, for instance, that historic male dominance in social power might largely be a naturally grounded phenomenon is much less palatable than the belief that this order results from a profound and more or less universal evil disorder instigated and maintained by the male sex."

https://alastairadversaria.com/2016/11/10/how-social-justice-ideology-gave-us-donald-trump/

[ 12. November 2016, 05:35: Message edited by: Wyclif ]

Posted by Teekeey Misha (# 18604) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Pangolin Guerre:
Chaqu'un son gout[circonflex over the 'u' of gout, but I can't figure out how to do it] = Each [to] his/her taste.

[Linguistic tangent]
I copy and paste my circumflexes, and envy those who know how to do them outside Word! I'd also add an "à" either at the prow or midship - "chacun à son goût" or "à chacun son goût", although it's not essential. You will observe I also prefer "chacun"; I'm led to believe that "chaqu'un" is not a word. Quite an interesting article about it here, including a graph so it must be true!
[/Linguistic tangent]

Posted by Doc Tor (# 9748) on :

I'm guessing Pangolin is Quebecois. They do their French differently over there.

And thank you Monsieur, for complying with the hostly directive: I know it's a bit of an arse, but it's Ship protocol.

DT
HH

Posted by Soror Magna (# 9881) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Wyclif:
... historic male dominance in social power might largely be a naturally grounded phenomenon ...

So it's natural for men to be in charge. Thanks for the reminder. [Roll Eyes]

Posted by Teekeey Misha (# 18604) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:
I'm guessing Pangolin is Quebecois. They do their French differently over there.

Tru dat. I've tried hard not to get too far into understanding Quebecois French as well - it's hard enough knowing how the French do French; damn, it's hard enough knowing how English works and I've lived with that from birth! I'm still trying to cope with learning Spanish and Russian on top of English, having learned French and Latin at school and I am about as far from a natural linguist as one can be!

Posted by Uncle Pete (# 10422) on :

Continuing how to do French accent tangent. Most of us who are francophone, or who live, work and play in a francophone environment use a keyboard called "Canadian multilingual standard" Using that, accents are a doddle.

Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :

The iPad keyboard has that option, too.

Posted by Teekeey Misha (# 18604) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Uncle Pete:
...a keyboard called "Canadian multilingual standard" Using that, accents are a doddle.

Now THAT should be a universal standard. So simple but so useful.

Posted by mousethief (# 953) on :

I create keyboard hotkeys with AutoHotKey. So for instance when I type o"" it automatically replaces it with ö.

This means I can also program certain key combinations to be replaced with "hot text." For example, when I type qqb it automatically replaces it with [/qb][/quote]. Handy.

Takes a bit of programming skill but not much.

Posted by anoesis (# 14189) on :

I haven't any programming skill, so I just look up the unicode characters. This one below is a good reference.

http://unicode-table.com/en/

You can just scroll to find the glyph you want, then if you click on it, it gives both the unicode and the HTML code, which latter you can include exactly as written, within your post, including in the middle of a word.

Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :

(Shipmates gaily caper after tangent like magpies after shiny pennies...)

Posted by chris stiles (# 12641) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Wyclif:

quote:
Just goes to show that having a doctorate isn't insulation against being a dick and talking shite.
The author is actually quite intelligent and nuanced

He writes in parenthesis and is in dire need of a decent editor, which doesn't necessarily translate to nuance.

I think attempting to posit the 'SJWs' as a kind of year zero against which the alt-right (poor things) are reacting, is missing a lot. He constructs an imagined history in which:

"When the left is using women, racial minorities, immigrants, and LGBT persons as means to attack straight white Christian men, for instance, it is extremely easy to forget that these groups have never been the enemy"

Presumably where the reaction of the Right was that of "adopting a gentle approach to navigating the differences between groups, seeking for ways for people with different values and beliefs to live together in peace".

I keep his blog in my feed reader because it's an interesting bell-weather of a particular strand of thought in conservative evangelicalism. His group blog 'mereorthodoxy' is more of the same - young fogeys crying 'why, oh why, oh why'.

[ 12. November 2016, 20:03: Message edited by: chris stiles ]

Posted by Teekeey Misha (# 18604) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
(Shipmates gaily caper after tangent like magpies after shiny pennies...)

quote:
Originally posted by chris stiles:
He writes in parenthesis and is in dire need of a decent editor...

Successive posts. Just saying...
[Big Grin]

Posted by molopata (# 9933) on :

quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
I create keyboard hotkeys with AutoHotKey. So for instance when I type o"" it automatically replaces it with ö.

This means I can also program certain key combinations to be replaced with "hot text." For example, when I type qqb it automatically replaces it with

I feel quite blessed with my Swiss keyboard. Fully geared to German and French, throw in Italian there, and it even provides for the Spanish tilda without the hassle of the AZERTY muddle. The QWERTZ layout with only the Y and Z swapped makes it easy to learn coming from a UK/US keyboard, and it even has $ and £ placed above one another (an anachronism, given the rise of the Euro).

[ 12. November 2016, 23:17: Message edited by: molopata ]

Posted by Doc Tor (# 9748) on :

Hostly furry hat on

This tangent is over. Go take it to Heaven. Practice your UBB coding. Whatever. Just do it elsewhere.

Hostly furry hat off

DT
HH

Posted by molopata (# 9933) on :

Ahem, Yes.

quote:
Originally posted by Eutychus:
Could Le Pen could actually win? It's a possibility and has become a lot more plausible this week, thereby making it more likely in my view. The big question is whether voters would then be consistent and vote in a Front National government in the general election that follows a little later. Or whether she'd make a stab at governing by executive decree, which is theoretically possible under the French constitution.

In fact, I think Le Pen has already won in the same way as Farage has achieved his goal in British politics. By capturing a sentiment that is present in large parts of the population (and I must admit, in traces even in myself from time to time), she has become a rallying point for fears and grievances, be that concerning immigration, identity, or jobs. And one of her most attractive traits is that she is ready to give the classe politique [political class] a good hiding - what's not to like about that?
As in other European countries, French political parties have gradually been waking up to the threat (in comparison, the American establishment has been amazingly slow to respond to Trump's blitz), and they have started to adjust their own policies in response. I would hazard that in Theresa May we have the sleeker version of Farage, In the same way, it is Sarkozy who is morphing into a more gallant version of Marie Le Pen. On that account, I don't believe that le Pen will be moving to the Élysée any time soon, but many of her ideas will be part of removal freight of the next president, whoever that may be.

Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :

Ok, I think this fits here. If you go back and review those 9/11 threads like someone suggested, somewhere in there you will find me griping about people taking these big, and I mean BIG ass flags and anchoring them into their pickup trucks with broom handles. I believe I told a story about a corner of one grazing my windshield from one lane over.

They are back.

Here's the thing-- under Obama, I was starting to feel like it was my flag again, something I could identify with. Now it's being used as a weapon again.

Posted by Eutychus (# 3081) on :

quote:
Originally posted by molopata:
And one of her most attractive traits is that she is ready to give the classe politique [political class] a good hiding - what's not to like about that?

What's not to like about it is that the Le Pen clan is in many ways part of that classe politique. Marine casts herself as a woman of the people very well, but it's a political dynasty much like the Bush and Clinton ones.

Possibly even scarier still is her niece Marion Maréchal Le Pen, the youngest French MP in modern history. At the same time the FN is gradually winning local government seats and building up the political experience it formerly lacked. The Le Pen clan is going to be around for a long time.

quote:
In the same way, it is Sarkozy who is morphing into a more gallant version of Marie Le Pen. On that account, I don't believe that le Pen will be moving to the Élysée any time soon

After what just happened in the US, I really wouldn't rule it out. Even less so if there is a Sarkozy-Le Pen runoff in the second round. Mostly because of the appeal of that "let's stick it to the system" urge.

Posted by Eutychus (# 3081) on :

I see the BBC have just published excerpts of an interview with her, here. She has as smooth a discourse as any mainstream politician, far removed from the constant spinning off-message of her father, and to the uninformed and disenfranchised, it comes across as wholly compelling. I know this because I not infrequently hear people, typically the working poor or those on benefits, parrotting her views. I find her totally chilling and consider her a very real threat.

Posted by Curious Kitten (# 11953) on :

This showed up on my tumblr feed and via this.

Posted by Doc Tor (# 9748) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Eutychus:
I see the BBC have just published excerpts of an interview with her, here.

Unless Mme Le Pen is masquerading as a google doodle of Dr Suess, it's not 'here'.

[Disappointed]

(there is this thing called 'Preview Post'. Apparently, it's your friend...)

Posted by Alex Cockell (# 7487) on :

Indy article re Marie Le Pen..
Oh what a fucking mess..

A certain GK song that observed this lot back in the 80s...

Posted by Eutychus (# 3081) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:
(there is this thing called 'Preview Post'. Apparently, it's your friend...)

My religion forbids me from forcing Preview Post to work on the Sabbath. But if you insist try this (includes video interview with subtitles)

Posted by quetzalcoatl (# 16740) on :

O fascism, thy honeyed words are heard once again in the land. Or really, proto-fascism.

Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on :

There is, perhaps, some cold comfort in reflecting on the general fate of most fascist dictators e.g. Hitler, Mussolini et al , or, of course, of dictators in general.

IJ

Posted by Net Spinster (# 16058) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Bishops Finger:
There is, perhaps, some cold comfort in reflecting on the general fate of most fascist dictators e.g. Hitler, Mussolini et al , or, of course, of dictators in general.

IJ

Franco and Salazar? Their regimes eventually ended but they were around for a long time.

Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on :

Oh, and just when you thought it couldn't get any worse, our very own dear fuckwitted fascist Nigel Garbage becomes the first UK politician to lick Trump's arse...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37965089

I know you Americans have enough to cope with, but please could you quietly intern him whilst he's on your side of the pond? And then lose the key?

IJ

Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on :

Thanks, Net Spinster - I had forgotten Franco and Salazar (doubtless there were others who, as you say, lasted a long time).

* sighs wistfully * - I was perhaps just dreaming hopefully...

IJ

Posted by Alex Cockell (# 7487) on :

"When fascism comes to the Uk, it will be waving the Union Jack..."

Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on :

Alas, I fear it already has and does...

IJ

Posted by Stephen (# 40) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Bishops Finger:
Oh, and just when you thought it couldn't get any worse, our very own dear fuckwitted fascist Nigel Garbage becomes the first UK politician to lick Trump's arse...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37965089

I know you Americans have enough to cope with, but please could you quietly intern him whilst he's on your side of the pond? And then lose the key?

IJ

Garbage and Donald Duck.........On a trumped-up charge perhaps, Bishop's Finger?

Posted by Ariel (# 58) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Bishops Finger:
Alas, I fear it already has and does...

It's been doing that ever since the National Front appropriated it. What else would it have been waving but the national flag? It usually likes to begin with an appeal to patriotism.

Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on :

Just so - but they forget that the Union Jack also incorporates the flags of what Flanders and Swann referred to as those 'rottenest parts of these islands of ours', i.e. Scotland and Wales!

[Paranoid]

Posted by Stephen (# 40) on :

Welshman signing in......

It doesn't actually Bishop's Finger. It incorporates Scotland and I think Northern Ireland but not Wales.......

Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on :

O bugger...

[Hot and Hormonal]

IJ

(sorry about that)

Posted by ThunderBunk (# 15579) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Stephen:
Welshman signing in......

It doesn't actually Bishop's Finger. It incorporates Scotland and I think Northern Ireland but not Wales.......

By the time the Union Flag was put together, Wales was already embedded in England, thanks to Henry IV (I think), Owain Glyndwr, etc.. It was no longer held to have a separate identity, anyway.

It's definitely included; it just didn't require separate representation.

[ 13. November 2016, 21:22: Message edited by: ThunderBunk ]

Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on :

Ah well - I think my point about the mongrel nature of the 'English' or 'Great British' still stands!

IJ

Posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider (# 76) on :

Scotland and Ireland; at the time the St Patrick's cross was added it was the whole of Ireland.

Wales is sadly neglected. The historical context is simple enough; it's about a Kingdom; the King of England was automatically already King in Wales, but the forming of the United Kingdom was the merging of two fully fledged separate Kingdoms. However, as a flag for the Nation it does seem to discount Wales entirely. Personally I think Y Ddraig Goch (Red Dragon) would look superb superimposed over the top, but that's just me.

Posted by Penny S (# 14768) on :

The trouble with the term Great Britain is that it originated as a geographical term, not a political one. There are, in French, two Bretagnes, the little one, Brittany, projecting into the Atlantic, and the big one, which is the island of Britain, Grande Bretagne. Nothing to do with the trumpian sense of great at all. Or that is what I learned. Some time ago.

[ 14. November 2016, 11:17: Message edited by: Penny S ]

Posted by Sparrow (# 2458) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Penny S:
The trouble with the term Great Britain is that it originated as a geographical term, not a political one. There are, in French, two Bretagnes, the little one, Brittany, projecting into the Atlantic, and the big one, which is the island of Britain, Grande Bretagne. Nothing to do with the trumpian sense of great at all. Or that is what I learned. Some time ago.

Thank you Penny for pointing this out! I have been trying to tell people this for years but just meet with disbelief. It's nothing to do with blowing our own trumpet and declaring how "great" we are in the modern sense of the word. It would probably help if the media weren't constantly abusing the term in "the Great British this or that".

Posted by L'organist (# 17338) on :

posted by Thunderbunk

quote:
By the time the Union Flag was put together, Wales was already embedded in England, thanks to Henry IV (I think), Owain Glyndwr, etc.. It was no longer held to have a separate identity, anyway.

The correct term is 'occupied' or 'conquered'. The people in the west were here before the Anglo-Saxons, let alone the Normans. It was the bastardised English (more accurately their French rulers) who held that we didn't have a separate identity.

quote:
It's definitely included; it just didn't require separate representation.

"Require"!!! There was a very good system of government running in Wales where the poorest peasant had the same access to justice from his peers as the highest prince: all of that was systematically destroyed by your French rulers.

There was no King in Wales because there were several principalities linked together by treaty and custom: as and when necessary one of the princes was chosen to represent the nation as a whole.

Again the English show their ignorance (as well as hubris) in terming the heir to their throne Prince of Wales since there was never any such fixed title gained through inheritance, it only ever being used when one of the Welsh princes was deemed to be senior and representative of them all.

In fact when you look at what has happened to English princes of wales since you killed our last princes, one might think there was a curse on the title... Certainly the English monarchy has a very high rate of second sons taking the crown through death of the first.

[ 26. November 2016, 11:12: Message edited by: L'organist ]

Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :

[Eek!]

Posted by ThunderBunk (# 15579) on :

L'Organist (note the infidel name - wherefore no Celtic purity?) - I was being consciously facetious in my description of the situation.

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