Ship of Fools: Martin60 knock it off

Thread: Martin60 knock it off Board: Hell / Ship of Fools.

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Posted by mousethief (# 953) on :

First you call me a girl then you call me ma'am. You are clearly aiming to be insulting. It's a sexist way to go about it. You're a Class 1 arsehole and the whole world knows it. You've always had it in for me and despite your many apologies you come right back at it. Go hump someone else's leg, loser.

Posted by Twilight (# 2832) on :

Well thanks Mousethief, that was a very interesting thread and I would have missed it if it hadn't been for Martin's Monthly Hell Call.

For me, the real miracle of the Holy Fire ceremony is how such a huge, cotton clad crowd of men with candles, manages to keep from starting a big deadly blaze.

If Martin shows up, I personally would rather have him explain the following than why he called Mousethief, "girl."

quote:
I've been locked in a bierkeller the last orgy before it and had to decline the most generous offers of a very attractive Deutches mädchen.

Posted by mousethief (# 953) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Twilight:
If Martin shows up, I personally would rather have him explain the following than why he called Mousethief, "girl."
quote:
I've been locked in a bierkeller the last orgy before it and had to decline the most generous offers of a very attractive Deutches mädchen.

You mean how in his bastard German he capitalized the adjective and left the noun in lower case?

Posted by Stetson (# 9597) on :

@Twilight

I'm gonna guess that means "While partying just before Lent, I got locked in a beer cellar, and had to fend off the advances of a hot German chick."

[ 23. April 2017, 22:50: Message edited by: Stetson ]

Posted by Pigwidgeon (# 10192) on :

quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
You mean how in his bastard German he capitalized the adjective and left the noun in lower case?

That had me puzzled as well!

Posted by Nick Tamen (# 15164) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Pigwidgeon:

quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
You mean how in his bastard German he capitalized the adjective and left the noun in lower case?
That had me puzzled as well!

He followed English, not German, rules of capitalization.

I was just grateful the response was a complete sentence, and not something like "Why?" in response to a post that contained multiple points. I tire of the "I can't be bothered, so you figure out what I'm asking you" approach.

Posted by no prophet's flag is set so... (# 15560) on :

Pervert as well as bastard. Mädchen means girl, and doesn't work for someone more than midteen.

Posted by Pigwidgeon (# 10192) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Nick Tamen:
I was just grateful the response was a complete sentence, and not something like "Why?" in response to a post that contained multiple points.

Or "warum."

[tangent] I once saw on an old-model VW beetle with the personalized license plate "Warum." I puzzled over that a while -- until I pronounced it, rather than translating it. [Biased]

[/tangent]

Posted by Nick Tamen (# 15164) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Pigwidgeon:
[tangent] I once saw on an old-model VW beetle with the personalized license plate "Warum." I puzzled over that a while -- until I pronounced it, rather than translating it. [/tangent]

Ha!

Posted by mousethief (# 953) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Stetson:
@Twilight

I'm gonna guess that means "While partying just before Lent, I got locked in a beer cellar, and had to fend off the advances of a hot German chick."

Excepted as noted "Mädchen" means "little girl."

Posted by Stercus Tauri (# 16668) on :

quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:

quote:
Originally posted by Stetson:
@Twilight

I'm gonna guess that means "While partying just before Lent, I got locked in a beer cellar, and had to fend off the advances of a hot German chick."
Excepted as noted "Mädchen" means "little girl."

In Martin's defence, "little girl" is a relative term as one ages into dirty old manhood. They get older, too.

Posted by Nick Tamen (# 15164) on :

quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:

quote:
Originally posted by Stetson:
@Twilight

I'm gonna guess that means "While partying just before Lent, I got locked in a beer cellar, and had to fend off the advances of a hot German chick."
Excepted as noted "Mädchen" means "little girl."

Maybe the Mädchen/hot German chick in question was Angela Merkel and Martin fancied himself Helmut Kohl?

Posted by mousethief (# 953) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Stercus Tauri:

quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:

quote:
Originally posted by Stetson:
@Twilight

I'm gonna guess that means "While partying just before Lent, I got locked in a beer cellar, and had to fend off the advances of a hot German chick."
Excepted as noted "Mädchen" means "little girl."
In Martin's defence, "little girl" is a relative term as one ages into dirty old manhood. They get older, too.

I will bow to your superior knowledge of German. I would call any object of lust a Fräulein, and any dirty old man who lusts after Mädchen a pædophile.

Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :

I reckon Martin60 fell over his own rhetoric. Not an unknown event.

Posted by mr cheesy (# 3330) on :

I think you're all thinking too hard about this; Martin tries to go to the logical end-point of his thinking and frequently disassembles to the point of incoherence.

I wouldn't take anything he says in those moments particularly seriously, the best thing to do is tell him to keep taking his medication/cocoa/viagra because he's hit peak-incoherence again.

Posted by Marvin the Martian (# 4360) on :

quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
I would call any object of lust a Fräulein, and any dirty old man who lusts after Mädchen a pædophile.

Seems a bit like accusing anyone who talks about liking hot babes of being sexually attracted to infants. But whatever, enjoy your linguistic pedantry if you must.

Posted by Martin60 (# 368) on :

mousethief. My unqualified apologies.

I was toying with you for being right. No sufficiently good deed goes unpunished as you know. I segued from old boy, to old girl. It's a pond thing with added surrealism. There's nowt sexist about it therefore. Or decadent.

Aye, deutches Fräulein would have been better. Although German girls translates to deutsche Mädchen. At least I got the gender right both times because of the diminutive. I was 26. She looked older. And I was in extremely self-righteous mode. Ij. Stetson got it.

How I kept me 'and on me 'a'penny for 7 years God knows. I was well known for translating English idioms directly in to German bei McDonalds in Bonn, wo ich gearbeitet habe (where I worked). Alte bohne (old bean) and altes obst (old fruit) elicited utter confusion. "Vy are you callink me rotting garbitsch?". My street German got good enough to know when I was being sworn at. Breakthrough happened when Theo, the cleaner said to me 'Ich habe in deinen Gummistiefeln gepinkelt.'. He hadn't. Peed in me wellies.

I was so pleased when I got my first German joke, not even addressed to me: 'Sprechen Sie electrisch?'.

Posted by no prophet's flag is set so... (# 15560) on :

Martin60, you didn't really mean sorry did you? Channelling this** perhaps?

**Innerer Schweinehund means "inner asshole". Some have an inner child, some have something else.

Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :

quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
I will bow to your superior knowledge of German. I would call any object of lust a Fräulein, and any dirty old man who lusts after Mädchen a pædophile.

For Fuck's sake, mt, Martin presents plenty of real targets to aim a kick at. Baseless accusations of paedophilia are unnecessary and offensive.

Posted by Martin60 (# 368) on :

quote:
Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:
Martin60, you didn't really mean sorry did you? Channelling this** perhaps?

**Innerer Schweinehund means "inner asshole". Some have an inner child, some have something else.

Schuldig.

Posted by Eutychus (# 3081) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Martin60:
I was toying with you

And this is what needs to stop.

I just got back from Vienna and was surprised how much German I could remember. Also surprised by there being a permanent snowstorm there last Wednesday.

Posted by Martin60 (# 368) on :

Ja, perfunk.

Posted by Doc Tor (# 9748) on :

Remember that bit where this is an English-language messageboard?

I'm reminding everyone of it.

DT
HH

Posted by orfeo (# 13878) on :

quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:

quote:
Originally posted by Stetson:
@Twilight

I'm gonna guess that means "While partying just before Lent, I got locked in a beer cellar, and had to fend off the advances of a hot German chick."
Excepted as noted "Mädchen" means "little girl."

No, it just means "girl". You're the bloke who often comes in here telling us all how etymology is not meaning. German has long since stopped regarding the "chen" as critical to the meaning of the word.

I'm in my 40s and I've still been called "boy" in certain contexts. Get over it.

[ 25. April 2017, 02:59: Message edited by: orfeo ]

Posted by Patdys (# 9397) on :

Martin60 has already copped to taking the piss.
I read his comments in a goodnatured light and didn't see much harm. But I am not the one the comments were directed at and my history with Martin60 is very different.

And I would concur that I too felt that hyperbole was utilised in the interpretation of his comments. YDoPTMV.*

*Your degree of panties twisting may vary.

Posted by Boogie (# 13538) on :

Using 'ma-am' and 'girl' as insults is sexist and derogatory towards women and girl. I have heard them both used often. It grates every time. I think I would go as far as to say it hurts - as it's just another confirmation as to how deep rooted everyday sexism is.

Does Martin60 intend to be sexist? I doubt it.

Posted by Jolly Jape (# 3296) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
Using 'ma-am' and 'girl' as insults is sexist and derogatory towards women and girl. I have heard them both used often. It grates every time. I think I would go as far as to say it hurts - as it's just another confirmation as to how deep rooted everyday sexism is.

Does Martin60 intend to be sexist? I doubt it.

Really? I must confess to being a bit old school, but I do use "Sir" and "Ma'am" in a light hearted way of showing respect, for instance, when holding a door open for someone to pass, "after you, sir". I can't understand why that is considered sexist, when used between equals. When used to a "social superior", I can see it being regarded as taking the piss, but that's to do with deflating pomposity rather than sexism. I suspect that Martin, who, I recall, is of a similar age to myself, uses language in a similar way.

Neither of which says anything about referring to MT as "ma'am" or "old girl", which, when directed at a man, would be read in the UK (do you agree Boogie) as a gentle prod intended to raise a smile rather than anything more hostile, but across the pond, in a different social context (Children calling their fathers "Sir", for example), it is possibly viewed differently.

Posted by Eutychus (# 3081) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Jolly Jape:
I do use "Sir" and "Ma'am" in a light hearted way of showing respect

This is precisely how Martin60 uses it to respond to tellings-off from a host: it's an attempt on his part to minimise and defuse a serious enforcement of the rules.

Martin60's "sirs" and "ma'ams" rarely, if ever, come with an actual acknowledgement ("yes, ok, I've understood, I'm sorry, I won't do it again"), but rather stand in place of one.

This comes across as "I've noted your comment but nothing says I'm actually going to comply". Furthermore, its "light-hearted tone" also comes across as "I'm treating this all as a game anyway, so I'm not likely to". It's such a caricatural way of showing respect that it implies the complete opposite.

Posted by mr cheesy (# 3330) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Eutychus:

This comes across as "I've noted your comment but nothing says I'm actually going to comply". Furthermore, its "light-hearted tone" also comes across as "I'm treating this all as a game anyway, so I'm not likely to". It's such a caricatural way of showing respect that it implies the complete opposite.

I don't think it does, actually. It simply states that I have recognised your words, I have recognised that you have the authority to make that statement and I have stopped doing whatever it is that you have told me to stop doing.

No apology is implied or given.

Martin is saying that he doesn't necessarily agree or understand the ruling, but respects that the ruling has weight and that it is to be obeyed.

And, as it happens, there is no obligation for anyone to acknowledge a hostly intervention on these boards - the obligation is to stop doing whatever it is when hosts use the host tags. That's it.

I'm not sure your analysis cuts any ice at all.

[ 25. April 2017, 08:26: Message edited by: mr cheesy ]

Posted by Eutychus (# 3081) on :

quote:
Originally posted by mr cheesy:
Martin is saying that he doesn't necessarily agree or understand the ruling, but respects that the ruling has weight and that it is to be obeyed.

The evidence suggests otherwise.

Posted by mr cheesy (# 3330) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Eutychus:
The evidence suggests otherwise.

Or possibly your extreme oversensitivity means that you're unable to assess the evidence.

Posted by Jolly Jape (# 3296) on :

I think this all comes down to the problems of interaction on boards as opposed to in real life. If you "get" Martin, then you wonder what all the fuss is about. If you don't "get" him, he obviously (from the reaction) comes across as irritating or passive aggressive. Unfortunately, the typed medium is not really up to the job of determining which of those judgements is correct. I like Martin, possibly because I've come across many people IRL who appear to have similar, shall we say, foibles, and they have, without exception, been likeable intelligent and entertaining people. I can even see something of myself in him. I suspect I would like him IRL as well. For others, perhaps he would not be their cup of tea, but I really think some of the ire he generates is a bit (OK, a lot) overblown.

Posted by Boogie (# 13538) on :

No, Jolly Jape, I don't agree - calling a man a 'girl' is sexist, whether in friendly jest or sneering jeer.

Round here there is a saying 'don't be a big girl's blouse'. It means wimpish and lacking backbone. I hate it.

Girls/women are wimpish and lacking backbone? I think not.

[ 25. April 2017, 09:14: Message edited by: Boogie ]

Posted by Jolly Jape (# 3296) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
No, Jolly Jape, calling a man a 'girl' is sexist, whether in friendly jest or sneering jeer.

Round here there is a saying 'don't be a big girl's blouse'. It means wimpish and lacking backbone. I hate it.

Girls/women are wimpish and lacking backbone? I think not.

Well, I'm from "round here", and I can't see that what Martin said to MT was in any way analogous to calling him a "girls blouse" (an expression for which I share your distaste), or why, in the original context, he would be accusing MT of lacking backbone.

Posted by Boogie (# 13538) on :

I know.

But calling a man a 'girl' is never a compliment.

Which is my point. Girl/woman = less in some way.

Posted by Eutychus (# 3081) on :

quote:
Originally posted by mr cheesy:

quote:
Originally posted by Eutychus:
The evidence suggests otherwise.
Or possibly your extreme oversensitivity means that you're unable to assess the evidence.

Martin60 has a record a mile long on this.

There was a Styx thread not so long ago about it, since culled, on which it was abundantly clear that his behaviour in this respect was irksome to many.

You are right that apologising for on-board misbehaviour is not necessary, but ceasing and desisting when called on it should be - and he has been called on "sir" and "ma'am" many times.

I find some of what Martin60 says stimulating and engaging. However, when he veers into being deliberately enigmatic and/or proffers elliptical, ambiguous insults disguised as compliments or vice versa, he's just annoying; even more so when, by his own admission, he is doing so simply to "toy with" people.

I'm not keen to devote time and energy here, in any capacity, to being toyed with.

Posted by mr cheesy (# 3330) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Eutychus:

I'm not keen to devote time and energy here, in any capacity, to being toyed with.

For sure. Martin's opaqueness drives me nuts and I absolutely wouldn't put it past him to be playing with us. If that is what he is doing, then he's playing a pretty stupid game given at least half the time nobody knows what the hell he is on about.

Posted by Martin60 (# 368) on :

Hmmm, Martin grew up on the edge of a petit bourgeois environment from beneath. One side of the family were frightfully genteel, the other yeoman working class. It's about anachronistic class kiddies. Not sexism. Old boy, old girl, old chap but NEVER old woman, except in a mocking, raven's voice as a synonym for crone.

mousethief and I both have thin skins on different parts of the body. And I'm a natural retaliator. 'e started i'. Being a gracelessly superior bastard. I inveigled back.

My bad.

Posted by Eutychus (# 3081) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Martin60:
kiddies

Posted by Martin60 (# 368) on :

Nor agism.

Posted by Martin60 (# 368) on :

Old woman was used in the working class third person of course. But never the second.

Posted by Eutychus (# 3081) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Martin60:
Nor agism.

It's not agism; it's patronising.

Get some critical distance, or some empathy, or something. Imagine how someone who's not you might read your posts. Either stop overcompensating for a sense of inadequacy or stop assuming you're superior; whichever works.

Posted by Martin60 (# 368) on :

Lighten up kid.

Posted by mr cheesy (# 3330) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Martin60:
Lighten up kid.

Martin, seriously, have you been drinking?

Posted by Martin60 (# 368) on :

If this were in the pub we'd be pissing ourselves laughing. What is it about writing that makes us all so thin skinned? So up our arses? Fear of course. But down the pub that fear works.

Posted by Martin60 (# 368) on :

I wish we were mr cheesy, it would would be paroxysmically funny. Even the bloody Yanks would be laughing.

Posted by Eutychus (# 3081) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Martin60:
If this were in the pub we'd be pissing ourselves laughing. What is it about writing that makes us all so thin skinned? So up our arses? Fear of course. But down the pub that fear works.

I'm not afraid of anything here. I have plenty of other RL things to be afraid of.

Mates ribbing one another is one thing. Systematically adopting a patronising tone and being deliberately obfuscatory and ambiguous after multiple entreaties to desist is not "matey" behaviour.

It is an abuse of friendship and if we were meeting down the pub it would end up with me changing pubs.

Instead of acknowledging that, you throw a few more insults around, indirectly of course as is your wont, so as to provide plausible deniability and/or turn them on yourself later in a pity party designed to elicit "all is forgiven" sympathy from everyone else when you realise you've pushed it just a little too far.

It is also an abuse of friendship to "toy with" others' reactions, as you have admitted that you do, more than once.

I think you're an atypical, amazing and deep person who has come through a lot of suffering, and somebody I could learn a lot from. But I have to double the effort because of your wilful refusal to attempt normal social relationships and stop seeing everyone else here as your personal playthings. That's not "matey"; that's sick.

Posted by Moo (# 107) on :

If I learn that some habit of mine annoys other people, I make an effort to stop doing it. Martin seems to think that if he irritates other people, that's their misfortune.

Moo

Posted by Martin60 (# 368) on :

Moo. OK, this en't the pub. I'm sorry.

Eutychus, you'd stay mate and give as good as you got and we'd get maudlin pissed: "You're my bes' mate you are.".

Posted by Eutychus (# 3081) on :

Unfortunately not a good reference for me. I know far too many people who found themselves in that exact situation with the end result that they ended up stabbing their "bes' mate" to death.

Posted by Martin60 (# 368) on :

Aye, drink is correlated with 90% of murder, not a statistic I made up, New Scientist did about 15 year ago.

Unfortunately, even when life was hell on all other fronts, down the pub it was often hysterical. Never lost or hit a friend or got clumped by one down the pub.

Posted by mousethief (# 953) on :

So, to summarize Martin's comments to and about me on this thread:

I apologize, matey. You have thin skin.

You'll have to forgive me if I don't take the first half terribly seriously after the second half. [Disappointed]

Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Martin60:
Aye, drink is correlated with 90% of murder, not a statistic I made up, New Scientist did about 15 year ago.

Unfortunately, even when life was hell on all other fronts, down the pub it was often hysterical. Never lost or hit a friend or got clumped by one down the pub.

You must have been buying the drinks then. Or found yourself the only person in the pub. If you rambled on in the same, self-indulgent fashion you do here, accusing people of being thin-skinned and the rest, I'm amazed you have survived.

No, I put my money on Martin60 being the reincarnation of Walter Mitty himself.

Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Jolly Jape:

quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
No, Jolly Jape, calling a man a 'girl' is sexist, whether in friendly jest or sneering jeer.

Round here there is a saying 'don't be a big girl's blouse'. It means wimpish and lacking backbone. I hate it.

Girls/women are wimpish and lacking backbone? I think not.
Well, I'm from "round here", and I can't see that what Martin said to MT was in any way analogous to calling him a "girls blouse" (an expression for which I share your distaste), or why, in the original context, he would be accusing MT of lacking backbone.

Well, you are a bloke and you are ol...erm, of a generation that mightn't of been as awake.* Calling a man ma'am is meant as disrespect because women are not seen as equal. Try calling your boss ma'am. Though, even the blokey version plays on that inequity.

*woke is a more current term, but in deference to previous generations...

Posted by Lamb Chopped (# 5528) on :

... though similarly, calling a woman "Sir" when you know damn well she's a woman is also a sign of disrespect. It means "You are acting as something you are not, you unnatural and disgusting creature."

I've had it done to me.

Posted by Doc Tor (# 9748) on :

quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
Try calling your boss ma'am.

People do, all the time. Especially when their boss is a woman.

Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:

quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
Try calling your boss ma'am.
People do, all the time. Especially when their boss is a woman.

Aright, fair cop. So add, "If your boss is a man" to my statement.

quote:
Originally posted by Lamb Chopped:
... though similarly, calling a woman "Sir" when you know damn well she's a woman is also a sign of disrespect. It means "You are acting as something you are not, you unnatural and disgusting creature."

I've had it done to me.

Most assertive women have this done to them. Even more so if they are black.
I get "feisty" a lot.

Posted by Jolly Jape (# 3296) on :

quote:
Calling a man ma'am is meant as disrespect because women are not seen as equal.

I'm afraid you'll have to take my word for it, but they are by this dinosaur.

quote:
Try calling your boss ma'am.

Well there may be a lot of things I might not have called my boss when I had one, though I can actually think of few who would have considered "old girl" as an insult, but then I did work for the BBC. But clearly it would only be appropriate in a "matey" context, which often did exist, as it happens, between my bosses and workers various. If (generic) you find it offensive, then clearly it would be inappropriate, and firm correction might need to be delivered. However, I still find such a situation to be miles away from the exchange between Martin and MT; as Boogie said, she didn't think Martin was being sexist.

Posted by Nicolemr (# 28) on :

Sexist or not, he was being obnoxious. Mouesethief had already told him not to call him by the wrong sex, so what does Martin do? Once again call him by the wrong sex. Obnoxious.

Posted by Lyda*Rose (# 4544) on :

Martin enjoys ruffling mousethief's feathers just because he can. Not one his nicer characteristics. [Disappointed]

Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Jolly Jape:

quote:
Calling a man ma'am is meant as disrespect because women are not seen as equal.
I'm afraid you'll have to take my word for it, but they are by this dinosaur.

I do take your word for it. However, one can have perfect respect for a group and not understand how a word violates this.

quote:

quote:
Try calling your boss ma'am.
Well there may be a lot of things I might not have called my boss when I had one, though I can actually think of few who would have considered "old girl" as an insult, but then I did work for the BBC. But clearly it would only be appropriate in a "matey" context, which often did exist, as it happens, between my bosses and workers various. If (generic) you find it offensive, then clearly it would be inappropriate, and firm correction might need to be delivered. However, I still find such a situation to be miles away from the exchange between Martin and MT; as Boogie said, she didn't think Martin was being sexist.

She said she didn't think Martin intended to be. There is a difference.

[ 25. April 2017, 17:05: Message edited by: lilBuddha ]

Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Lyda*Rose:
Martin enjoys ruffling mousethief's feathers just because he can. Not one his nicer characteristics.

Indeed. Martin60's modus operandi is vague. He uses it as a weapon as well as general expression.

[ 25. April 2017, 17:09: Message edited by: lilBuddha ]

Posted by Martin60 (# 368) on :

It's my round, what'll you have mousethief?

Posted by mousethief (# 953) on :

You to stop humping my leg, as already specified. I'm not your matey and never shall be.

Posted by Martin60 (# 368) on :

Bless you mate.

Posted by Lamb Chopped (# 5528) on :

martin, stop being an asshole. You're the only person I know who can turn a blessing into an incredibly irritating wind-up.

Posted by Nicolemr (# 28) on :

Like I said, obnoxious.

Posted by mousethief (# 953) on :

I'm not your mate. Get off my leg.

Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :

quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
I'm not your mate. Get off my leg.

He cannot hump what isn't there.

Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :

quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:

quote:
Originally posted by Lyda*Rose:
Martin enjoys ruffling mousethief's feathers just because he can. Not one his nicer characteristics.
Indeed. Martin60's modus operandi is vague. He uses it as a weapon as well as general expression.

More than that, he uses it as an excuse.

Posted by Wesley J (# 6075) on :

His chief weapons are predictability and an almost fanatical devotion to himself.

Posted by no prophet's flag is set so... (# 15560) on :

A duck with three wings and a loaf of bread is still sister to the turkey. Wearing no pants, Martin60 is the duck.

Posted by Lamb Chopped (# 5528) on :

Ah! A contest, is it? My obscurity is in eclipse, and I fear the hostly prod.

Posted by Golden Key (# 1468) on :

Wes--

quote:
Originally posted by Wesley J:
His chief weapons are predictability and an almost fanatical devotion to himself.

And who gets the comfy chair? MT?

Posted by simontoad (# 18096) on :

Good on you Martin60. Your posts are entertaining and insightful. My favorite are the ones where you seem to physically live out your spiritual uncertainties like some sort of gonzo philosopher. All theology should be lived like the milk is off and there's no long-life in the cupboard. Do you have it black, or go down the shop?

You are a wordsmith Martin. Keep expressing yourself in the moment. Don't look back. Try not to get banned, that's all.

Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :

quote:
Originally posted by simontoad:
Good on you Martin60. Your posts are entertaining and insightful. My favorite are the ones where you seem to physically live out your spiritual uncertainties like some sort of gonzo philosopher. All theology should be lived like the milk is off and there's no long-life in the cupboard. Do you have it black, or go down the shop?

You are a wordsmith Martin. Keep expressing yourself in the moment. Don't look back. Try not to get banned, that's all.

All that can at times be true, but Martin 60 has this annoying habit of being deliberately obscure. It fucks up debate and discussion a treat and I sometimes think that is his objective.

Posted by Eutychus (# 3081) on :

quote:
Originally posted by simontoad:
All theology should be lived like the milk is off and there's no long-life in the cupboard.

I agree with Sioni, but I think the above is worthy of the quotes file and might even unseat Martin in my sig.

Posted by Jolly Jape (# 3296) on :

Actually, I don't think Martin is being deliberately obscure, though I think the case can be made that he is being deliberately enigmatic. It's like he senses something just beyond his reach, and tries to reflect that frustration with resort to something which is, at its best, nearer to poetry than rational discourse. Once you learn to feel his arguments rather than analysing them too closely, it is possible to discern the outline at least of the hidden truth that stalks him, just outside the boundaries of rational perception. FWIW, I find him easier to understand than many of the works of academic theologians, though I confess that some of his more obscure cultural allusions escape me.

Posted by Doc Tor (# 9748) on :

Martin veers between Holy Fool and Fucking Idiot.

And there, but for the grace of God and our internal editors, go us all.

Posted by mousethief (# 953) on :

quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:

quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
I'm not your mate. Get off my leg.
He cannot hump what isn't there.

I can assure you I have two fully functional legs.

Posted by orfeo (# 13878) on :

quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:

quote:
Originally posted by Jolly Jape:

quote:
Calling a man ma'am is meant as disrespect because women are not seen as equal.
I'm afraid you'll have to take my word for it, but they are by this dinosaur.
I do take your word for it. However, one can have perfect respect for a group and not understand how a word violates this.

You say this like a word has an objective meaning all on its own.

Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :

quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:

quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:

quote:
Originally posted by Jolly Jape:

quote:
Calling a man ma'am is meant as disrespect because women are not seen as equal.
I'm afraid you'll have to take my word for it, but they are by this dinosaur.
I do take your word for it. However, one can have perfect respect for a group and not understand how a word violates this.

You say this like a word has an objective meaning all on its own.

No, I am saying pretty much the opposite.

Posted by ThunderBunk (# 15579) on :

Every use of the word "mate" earns you another million years in purgatory. With added pine needles down the fingernails just to make it sufficiently infernal.

I don't like your use of it because I don't trust it. It sounds like it's in your ninth language, which you learned from your worst enemy. It is therefore passive aggressive and utterly dickish.

Posted by Jolly Jape (# 3296) on :

Really, ThunderBunk? They obviously do things differently there in Norwich. Up here in the Rainy City, and presumably in Leicester, it is perfectly normal English as she is spoken, and a nearly universal form of address between men, be they friends or strangers. It's so common, there's even an insurance brand named "Sorry, Mate". You might not like it, it might, in your opinion, be infra dig*, but it's far too well used to be sensibly regarded as a sign of passive aggression. To think that someone saying it is attempting to put you down is to be oversensitive to an alarming degree.

* Infra dignitatum - beneath one's dignity.

[ 30. April 2017, 14:01: Message edited by: Jolly Jape ]

Posted by Curiosity killed ... (# 11770) on :

Jolly Jape, down in the Metropolis and environs, I see both the friendly back-slapping use of "mate".
It goes with pub bonhomie and all lads together among the older men. Younger men tend to use "bro". Then there's the gritted teeth, passive-aggressive mate usage that really isn't friendly. The "You mate (or matey), need to get your skates on to fix this." type instruction.

I can see where Thunderbunk is coming from.

Posted by mousethief (# 953) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Jolly Jape:
Really, ThunderBunk? They obviously do things differently there in Norwich. Up here in the Rainy City, and presumably in Leicester, it is perfectly normal English as she is spoken, and a nearly universal form of address between men, be they friends or strangers. It's so common, there's even an insurance brand named "Sorry, Mate". You might not like it, it might, in your opinion, be infra dig*, but it's far too well used to be sensibly regarded as a sign of passive aggression. To think that someone saying it is attempting to put you down is to be oversensitive to an alarming degree.

* Infra dignitatum - beneath one's dignity.

This ignores the context here. We're not in a pub or in the street in your Rainy City or in Leicester. We're on the SOF where Martin has been told not to call me matey. If he does it again, it's passive aggression. I'm amazed that you, smart as you are, can't see the difference the difference in context makes.

Posted by Jolly Jape (# 3296) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Curiosity killed ...:
Jolly Jape, down in the Metropolis and environs, I see both the friendly back-slapping use of "mate".
It goes with pub bonhomie and all lads together among the older men. Younger men tend to use "bro". Then there's the gritted teeth, passive-aggressive mate usage that really isn't friendly. The "You mate (or matey), need to get your skates on to fix this." type instruction.

I can see where Thunderbunk is coming from.

Hereabouts, "bro" is used, but seems to be confined to a very tightly defined group - the church. I don't think I've ever heard it outside that context. Amongst the "younger men" demographic, "bruv" seems to be gaining some traction, perhaps under the influence of young men of Asian descent. But amongst most males here, it's definitely "mate" IME.

Posted by Jolly Jape (# 3296) on :

MT, I was responding to TB's rather blanket assertion that the use of "mate", regardless of context, is somehow passive aggressive or dickish. I was just pointing out that, in view of the prevalence of this form of address, as I say, pretty much the default around here (Manchester, UK) it is clearly not regarded so by most people, and thus TB was being extremely oversensitive.

None of which in any way implies that, at least in purgatory, you do not have the right to be addressed in a way of your own choosing.

Posted by ThunderBunk (# 15579) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Jolly Jape:
MT, I was responding to TB's rather blanket assertion that the use of "mate", regardless of context, is somehow passive aggressive or dickish. I was just pointing out that, in view of the prevalence of this form of address, as I say, pretty much the default around here (Manchester, UK) it is clearly not regarded so by most people, and thus TB was being extremely oversensitive.

None of which in any way implies that, at least in purgatory, you do not have the right to be addressed in a way of your own choosing.

Jolly Jape, I didn't mean that at all. I meant that Martin's use of "mate" was just about invariably in the category I described. It is perfectly possible for most people to use it otherwise, but I have never heard Martin do so. Or if I have, it doesn't stick in the memory.

Disclaimer: this is hell, where baseless snark comes as standard.

Posted by Doc Tor (# 9748) on :

What's wrong with 'comrade'? Inclusive, gender-neutral and venerable...

Posted by Jolly Jape (# 3296) on :

Nice and neutral, too! [Killing me]

Posted by Jolly Jape (# 3296) on :

Oops,should have said politically neutral.

Posted by simontoad (# 18096) on :

is 'comrade' still the term of choice in the UK Labour Party? Did Tony Blair use it?

Posted by Doc Tor (# 9748) on :

Hahahahahaha.

No.

[ 04. May 2017, 10:15: Message edited by: Doc Tor ]

Posted by Helen-Eva (# 15025) on :

quote:
Originally posted by simontoad:
is 'comrade' still the term of choice in the UK Labour Party? Did Tony Blair use it?

I'm pretty sure the trades union movement still uses it - I remember being at the TUC congress a few years back and they were talking about their "fraternal comrades" in Cuba. Dunno why comrades can't be sororal.

Posted by Rosa Winkel (# 11424) on :

I only see Labour members virutally now, but comrade is pretty standard, at least in the Labour International group.

Posted by orfeo (# 13878) on :

Definitely still used in the Australian Labor Party.

Posted by Gee D (# 13815) on :

quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
Definitely still used in the Australian Labor Party.

Many users of the alternative trm "Maaaate" have either been in gaol or now are.

Posted by simontoad (# 18096) on :

[Killing me]

Posted by Martin60 (# 368) on :

I plead guilty to all charges.

What restorative justice do you require mousethief?

Posted by Paul. (# 37) on :

I believe he's made it clear what he's after in the title of this thread.

Posted by Martin60 (# 368) on :

Then that's what he'll get.

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