Thread: "Christian Concern" bunch of wankers Board: Hell / Ship of Fools.


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Posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider (# 76) on :
 
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5075641/Let-little-boys-wear-tiaras-says-Church-England.html

(Sorry for the Heil link, but it carries the response from so-called "Christian Concern")

Basically, CofE says "bullying people because of their sexual or gender identity is bad, OK?"

Christian Concern think people are being bullied if they can't carry on bullying people.

Fuckers. they can fuck off to the far side of fuck. I am so fed up with twats like these who think they're defending God by being arseholes.

I've read the actual CofE guidance. If you have a problem with it, you're an unpleasant little fuckwit.

[ 13. November 2017, 08:35: Message edited by: Karl: Liberal Backslider ]
 
Posted by Ian Climacus (# 944) on :
 
Christian Concern sounds like neither word applies.

We have a similar group in the Australian Christian Lobby. Always claiming persecution. And claiming to speak on behalf of God, but instead making Christians look like judgmental morons.

Back to your group, are they very large? Or just a vocal minority?
 
Posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider (# 76) on :
 
Last I knew they claimed 80,000 supporters
 
Posted by L'organist (# 17338) on :
 
More disturbing is that Mrs Minchiello Williams was re-elected as one of the Diocese of Chichester's 2 lay members of General Synod.

Frankly, if there is genuine concern in the diocese about christian attitudes and mores, then Martin Warner should issue a statement distancing the diocese from anything issuing from the mouth of this unpleasant, bigoted woman.
 
Posted by la vie en rouge (# 10688) on :
 
I think “claimed” is the operative word. AFAICT Christian Concern consists of one bloke with a typewriter. There may also be a dog.

[x-post - replying to Karl]

[ 13. November 2017, 09:46: Message edited by: la vie en rouge ]
 
Posted by Doc Tor (# 9748) on :
 
They are also closely allied (have the same staff) to the Christian Legal Centre which, AFAIK, have never won a case and have squandered (hopefully) millions of their 'supporters' cash on ineffective and ill-advised discrimination suits.
 
Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:
They are also closely allied (have the same staff) to the Christian Legal Centre which, AFAIK, have never won a case and have squandered (hopefully) millions of their 'supporters' cash on ineffective and ill-advised discrimination suits.

From what I have read Christian Concern is a political organisation, hence not a charity. The CLC is there to get in the papers which it does well. I don't think it really tries to win cases.
 
Posted by Doc Tor (# 9748) on :
 
Ah, but it is.
 
Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:
Ah, but it is.

Here's the "about" page of Christian Concern. It has the same address, 70 Wimpole Street, but has the title CCFCON Ltd.

Looks like a network of closely allied bodies.
 
Posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider (# 76) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:
Ah, but it is.

Here's the "about" page of Christian Concern. It has the same address, 70 Wimpole Street, but has the title CCFCON Ltd.

Looks like a network of closely allied bodies.

You astound me.

My impression is they are unto the likes of Stephen Green's Christian Voice as UKIP are unto Britain First.
 
Posted by Alan Cresswell (# 31) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:

My impression is they are unto the likes of Stephen Green's Christian Voice as UKIP are unto Britain First.

Ah, Stephen Green. Another twat claiming to be the voice of Christians who wouldn't know Jesus Christ if He came round for dinner (which, ironically, He probably would do as He had a habit of eating with just about everyone - but most especially those people that the likes of so-called Christian Concern and so-called Christian Voice want nothing to do with).
 
Posted by Boogie (# 13538) on :
 
There was a representative from Christian Concern talking about this on radio 2 today.

I’ve never heard such sweet, sickly passive aggression.

Horrible.
 
Posted by L'organist (# 17338) on :
 
Re: Christian Concern

One of its 3 trustees is Celia Akyaa Apeagyei-Collins: she is also a Vice-President for TEARFUND, a director at CiC and on the steering committee of the National Church Leaders' Forum. I don't think any of these could be described as "fringe".
 
Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:
Re: Christian Concern

One of its 3 trustees is Celia Akyaa Apeagyei-Collins: she is also a Vice-President for TEARFUND, a director at CiC and on the steering committee of the National Church Leaders' Forum. I don't think any of these could be described as "fringe".

Back in the bad old days of the 1980s the Labour Party suffered greatly form "Entryism". It looks like generally respectable Christian organisations do too.
 
Posted by Jemima the 9th (# 15106) on :
 
Andrea Minichiello-Williams said "the anti-bullies are becoming the bullies." Which I think demonstrates that she doesn't really understand what bullying is.

I would dearly, dearly love CC to fuck off to the far side of fuck, and then fuck off a bit more, but in the interim, a friend and I are pondering setting up "Christians Not That Bothered Actually". Hallmarks to be an absence of persecution complex, a total disinterest in what consenting adults do in the bedroom, a keen approval of letting kids play (which is largely what the CofE guidance is about, ISTM) and other stuff as we think of it. All meetings to be held in the pub, natch.
 
Posted by Amanda B. Reckondwythe (# 5521) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Jemima the 9th:
Andrea Minichiello-Williams said "the anti-bullies are becoming the bullies."

The 1976 cult classic film Massacre at Central High treats exactly that subject.
 
Posted by Alan Cresswell (# 31) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Jemima the 9th:
a friend and I are pondering setting up "Christians Not That Bothered Actually". Hallmarks to be an absence of persecution complex, a total disinterest in what consenting adults do in the bedroom, a keen approval of letting kids play (which is largely what the CofE guidance is about, ISTM) and other stuff as we think of it. All meetings to be held in the pub, natch.

Sounds great. I don't consider myself, or anyone I know, persecuted. I don't care at all what consenting adults do in the privacy of their own bedrooms (excluding those times when some public figure starts spouting off about the evil things people do in the privacy of their own bedrooms only to find they're doing the same - in which case it's not what they do in their bedrooms but the hypocrisy of what they say in public that I'm concerned about). Meeting in the pub sounds perfect.

My only problem is that I am a Christian, and I am Concerned about a lot of things. I'm concerned about rising bigotry in society and the church - racism, sexism, homophobia, xenophobia ... I'm a Christian concerned that there's an organisation calling itself "Christian Concern" that is promoting the sort of attitudes that I'm convinced that Jesus would disapprove of.
 
Posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider (# 76) on :
 
And that they have links to the mainstream. Their spokesperson, who appears to do all their talking, is on the General Synod, if I understand correctly.

I wish they'd stop whining about how heretical and apostate the Church is and just fuck off out of it, if it's so terrible. But no, they're determined to stay and save us. Because it's so obvious they're right and we're just compromising with the world, and listening to false prophets saying what our itching ears want to hear, and that eventually we'll see that if they keep on haranguing us. Either that, or they just want the legitimacy that comes with being part of the CofE. Or perhaps they think the CofE should be theirs and we should go. I don't know.
 
Posted by mousethief (# 953) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Jemima the 9th:
Andrea Minichiello-Williams said "the anti-bullies are becoming the bullies." Which I think demonstrates that she doesn't really understand what bullying is.

I would dearly, dearly love CC to fuck off to the far side of fuck, and then fuck off a bit more, but in the interim, a friend and I are pondering setting up "Christians Not That Bothered Actually". Hallmarks to be an absence of persecution complex, a total disinterest in what consenting adults do in the bedroom, a keen approval of letting kids play (which is largely what the CofE guidance is about, ISTM) and other stuff as we think of it. All meetings to be held in the pub, natch.

Sign me up. I'll even pay dues.
 
Posted by Golden Key (# 1468) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by la vie en rouge:
I think “claimed” is the operative word. AFAICT Christian Concern consists of one bloke with a typewriter. There may also be a dog.

And the poor dog keeps trying to drag the guy out into the fresh air, to clear his brain.

[ 14. November 2017, 01:08: Message edited by: Golden Key ]
 
Posted by Golden Key (# 1468) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:
They are also closely allied (have the same staff) to the Christian Legal Centre which, AFAIK, have never won a case and have squandered (hopefully) millions of their 'supporters' cash on ineffective and ill-advised discrimination suits.

From what I have read Christian Concern is a political organisation, hence not a charity. The CLC is there to get in the papers which it does well. I don't think it really tries to win cases.
Are these folks related to the Phelpses? Sounds like Westboro Church, on a larger scale.
 
Posted by balaam (# 4543) on :
 
Dunno about any Phelps connection, but Andrea Minichiello-Williams is alleged by the Inependent* to have said that diver Tom Daly is gay because his father died when he was young.

Anyone got any cheese to go with the fruitcake?

* Independent link.
 
Posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider (# 76) on :
 
...where we read that she supports gay sex being illegal.

You know, I thought at first I was being unfair, but I reckon this woman and her foetid organisation actually do want anyone who isn't their ideal straight, cis, norm, to suffer. Hateful bunch of bellends.

[ 14. November 2017, 20:57: Message edited by: Karl: Liberal Backslider ]
 
Posted by Snags (# 15351) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by la vie en rouge:
I think “claimed” is the operative word. AFAICT Christian Concern consists of one bloke with a typewriter. There may also be a dog.

[x-post - replying to Karl]

Nope, that's Christian Voice aka Stephen Green.

Christian Concern (aka Christian Concern For Our Nation) are an actual organisation with multiple folk working for them, and a network of supporters. Some of what they do is actually OK, but a lot is, erm, not in line with my understanding of the gospel.

It should also be pointed out that Andrea [Minichello-]Williams is, technically, from the Chrisitan Legal Centre, although CLC and CCFON are extremely closely linked (share premises, essentially share IT infrastructure and some staff etc.).

None of which should detract from the fact that, as far as I can see, she's totally hatstand and wrong.
 
Posted by Snags (# 15351) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:
Ah, but it is.

Here's the "about" page of Christian Concern. It has the same address, 70 Wimpole Street, but has the title CCFCON Ltd.

Looks like a network of closely allied bodies.

Christian Concern is just shorthand for CCFON, in the same way that one has a trading name/or everyone knows Marks & Spencer as M&S.

Christian Legal Centre (CLC) is separate but very closely related.

Christian Voice is not directly related, but Stephen Green is definitely a fellow traveller.

I know this because some years ago I ended up doing a bit of work for them, which was what one might refer to as "an extremely interesting experience" and then change the subject, twitching wildly, and reaching for the spirits and speed dialling the therapist.
 
Posted by Tubbs (# 440) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:
They are also closely allied (have the same staff) to the Christian Legal Centre which, AFAIK, have never won a case and have squandered (hopefully) millions of their 'supporters' cash on ineffective and ill-advised discrimination suits.

They got someone an apology, that counts as winning surely?!

Their main defence in employment tribunals seems to be pretending the case is being bought because the defendant is a Christian. Rather than the case being about abuse of authority, rule breaking, breaches of equality legislation etc.

Creating a narrative that Christians are being persecuted and that CLC need more of your money to defend them.
 
Posted by Snags (# 15351) on :
 
I wish they were that cynical. Genuinely.

Having sat in a room with Andrea and A N Other chap, she is most definitely 100% a True Believer in what she's saying. It got so positively awkward that I had to point out she really shouldn't assume that I was on the same page. Or even in the same library.
 
Posted by gorpo (# 17025) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
And that they have links to the mainstream. Their spokesperson, who appears to do all their talking, is on the General Synod, if I understand correctly.

I wish they'd stop whining about how heretical and apostate the Church is and just fuck off out of it, if it's so terrible. But no, they're determined to stay and save us. Because it's so obvious they're right and we're just compromising with the world, and listening to false prophets saying what our itching ears want to hear, and that eventually we'll see that if they keep on haranguing us. Either that, or they just want the legitimacy that comes with being part of the CofE. Or perhaps they think the CofE should be theirs and we should go. I don't know.

Oh really? Where on earth did those lunatics get it that you and other progressive christians are "compromising with the world" when it´s so clear that your agenda is nothing more then to do the will of God? Where on earth did they get that you are listening to false prophets when all you do is believe the holy gospel as preached by the apostles and registered in the holy scriptures? Why on earth do they think your prophets are only sayng what your itching ears want to hear, when they courageously confronting the agendas of the world with the teaching of Christ and the Scriptures? Why on earth do they think it´s legitimate for them to remain in the Church and expect you to leave?

How can they be so insensible to Jesus and not be like us progressives who are all about Him? Isn´t it quite clear that it´s Jesus will thay boys dress like girls and be prepared to have their bodies mutilated because they were born with the wrong biological sex? Isn´t that what humanity always believed and the great religions always taught? Wasn´t Jesus all about trangenderism, polyamory and same sex marriage, like his religious tradition and the books he claimed to be God´s word say? Oh those crazy lunatics and their ideologies. Where the hell to they get this strange idea that you are going astray?
 
Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on :
 
[Killing me]

IJ
 
Posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider (# 76) on :
 
My "agenda", Gorpo, is not to be an arsehole to people. To accept their own experience of being themselves.

Yours, and your fellow travellers', is apparently to insist they don't know the first thing about themselves and that they should accept your interpretation of a centuries old text set in a completely different culture, no matter how miserable that makes them.

And of course to openly display your hatred of wicked progressives who want to see people freed from your attempts to control their bodies and lives by denying them their rights.

Isn't there some wicked poofter queen tranny you can go and hate? Rather than pissing your bile here as usual.
 
Posted by Alan Cresswell (# 31) on :
 
To any claim by so-called Christian Concern that we're listening to false prophets saying what we want to hear, we can ask whether the prophets they listen to confirm their prejudices or whether they challenge their discipleship. Are they only listening to those who say what they want to hear?

To any claim by so-called Christian Concern that we've been compromised by the world, we can ask how much their "plain reading" of Scripture is a reflection of the modernism of recent centuries. Would the more organic and less precise understanding of the early church survive their definition of the "only, correct way to understand Scripture"?

In other words, so-called Christian Concern are as worldly, compromised, prone to listen to prophets who say what they want to hear as the rest of us. Quite possible more so.
 
Posted by Amanda B. Reckondwythe (# 5521) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
To any claim by so-called Christian Concern that we're listening to false prophets saying what we want to hear, we can ask whether the prophets they listen to confirm their prejudices or whether they challenge their discipleship. . . . In other words, so-called Christian Concern are as . . . prone to listen to prophets who say what they want to hear as the rest of us.

As someone once said: You know you've made God in your own image when he ends up hating the same people you do.
 
Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Snags:
I wish they were that cynical. Genuinely.

Having sat in a room with Andrea and A N Other chap, she is most definitely 100% a True Believer in what she's saying. It got so positively awkward that I had to point out she really shouldn't assume that I was on the same page. Or even in the same library.

Once you can fake sincerity you can persuade people of almost anything.
 
Posted by Erroneous Monk (# 10858) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by gorpo:
Isn´t it quite clear that it´s Jesus will thay boys dress like girls

Yes it is. Unless my parish priest is getting it totally wrong every Sunday.
 
Posted by Tubbs (# 440) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Amanda B. Reckondwythe:
quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
To any claim by so-called Christian Concern that we're listening to false prophets saying what we want to hear, we can ask whether the prophets they listen to confirm their prejudices or whether they challenge their discipleship. . . . In other words, so-called Christian Concern are as . . . prone to listen to prophets who say what they want to hear as the rest of us.

As someone once said: You know you've made God in your own image when he ends up hating the same people you do.
This is so true. Which is why the neighbour test is very important. ie: If a person in this group was my neighbour would x and y count as loving them? As God would love them. As I am called to love myself.

Any answer that involves burning crosses on their front lawn or similar counts as a fail. Unless your God is seriously weird ...
 
Posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider (# 76) on :
 
Problem is that they tend to say that gay people are going to Hell if they don't repent so the most loving thing is to make them aware of that so that they can change. Been there, long ago...
 
Posted by Alan Cresswell (# 31) on :
 
Gnat straining, camel swallowers.
 
Posted by Alex Cockell (# 7487) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:

My impression is they are unto the likes of Stephen Green's Christian Voice as UKIP are unto Britain First.

Ah, Stephen Green. Another twat claiming to be the voice of Christians who wouldn't know Jesus Christ if He came round for dinner (which, ironically, He probably would do as He had a habit of eating with just about everyone - but most especially those people that the likes of so-called Christian Concern and so-called Christian Voice want nothing to do with).
While CC were busy choking on camels?
 
Posted by SvitlanaV2 (# 16967) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:


I wish they'd stop whining about how heretical and apostate the Church is and just fuck off out of it, if it's so terrible. But no, they're determined to stay and save us. Because it's so obvious they're right and we're just compromising with the world, and listening to false prophets saying what our itching ears want to hear, and that eventually we'll see that if they keep on haranguing us. Either that, or they just want the legitimacy that comes with being part of the CofE. Or perhaps they think the CofE should be theirs and we should go. I don't know.

To be honest, I wonder why they're there too. State churches don't have much truck with single-minded purity, so CC and their ilk are destined to be unhappy if they remain. But the rest of you won't drive them out, will you? You want to be the church for 'everyone', which is a total impossibility.

quote:

Isn't there some wicked poofter queen tranny you can go and hate? Rather than pissing your bile here as usual.

Surely it's better to be arguing here than upsetting folks in the real world.

[ 17. November 2017, 15:37: Message edited by: SvitlanaV2 ]
 
Posted by Golden Key (# 1468) on :
 
{Possibly TMI/offensive.}

quote:
Originally posted by Erroneous Monk:
quote:
Originally posted by gorpo:
Isn´t it quite clear that it´s Jesus will thay boys dress like girls

Yes it is. Unless my parish priest is getting it totally wrong every Sunday.
...which reminds me of the song "Take A Leap, John Paul", a song that lesbian singer-songwriter Judy Fjell was asked to write when Pope JP II was coming to San Francisco on a visit. She said she thought, "Hmmm...the pope...coming to SF...in a dress".
[Biased]

(That's just the lyrics. There may be an audio online, somewhere. Nice tune.)
 
Posted by chris stiles (# 12641) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:
Re: Christian Concern

One of its 3 trustees is Celia Akyaa Apeagyei-Collins: she is also a Vice-President for TEARFUND, a director at CiC and on the steering committee of the National Church Leaders' Forum. I don't think any of these could be described as "fringe".

Director at OM too.
 
Posted by ThunderBunk (# 15579) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
Isn't there some wicked poofter queen tranny you can go and hate? Rather than pissing your bile here as usual.

Have pity on this poor person. At least the bile is diluted in here. We only have to take a small percentage each.
 
Posted by Adeodatus (# 4992) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
Last I knew they claimed 80,000 supporters

Are 79,963 of them angels? And 34 household pets?
 
Posted by Alan Cresswell (# 31) on :
 
Their website claims a mailing list of 43,000. I wonder what proportion of those who get their mailing immediately consign it to the trash bin.
 
Posted by Ricardus (# 8757) on :
 
Well I have just been reading their website and feel very reassured. What a paradise we live in, where the only things that could concern Christians are abortion, the gays, transexuality, sex education and Islam, and nothing else is happening that could possibly concern a Christian at all.

And I must congratulate the satirist who, after many articles worrying about the erosion of freedom of speech, then inserted a hagiography of Viktor Orbán ...
 
Posted by Doc Tor (# 9748) on :
 
She really is someone who shouldn't be let out in public without minders, isn't she? [brick wall]
 
Posted by gorpo (# 17025) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
To any claim by so-called Christian Concern that we're listening to false prophets saying what we want to hear, we can ask whether the prophets they listen to confirm their prejudices or whether they challenge their discipleship. Are they only listening to those who say what they want to hear?

Or you could ask which prophet is sayng what the Scriptures says. Or would it make any difference in your worldview if the Bible and christianity did not exist at all. I´m pretty sure that liberal christians would believe the same things they do even if they have never heard of the bible or christianity at all. Because a liberal christian thinks the same as a liberal atheist, except for having the habit of going to church a few times a year.

quote:

To any claim by so-called Christian Concern that we've been compromised by the world, we can ask how much their "plain reading" of Scripture is a reflection of the modernism of recent centuries. Would the more organic and less precise understanding of the early church survive their definition of the "only, correct way to understand Scripture"?

Right, because the early church, the medieval church, the reformers, etc... always believed in the same things as wish-washy liberal churches believe today... Only after bloody modern ages have christians started to believe in the divinity of christ, trinity, forgiveness of sins, and even the bloody distinction between male and female. Damn bloody modernist reading of the scriptures, for introducing such horrible beliefs for the first time in christian history!!

quote:

In other words, so-called Christian Concern are as worldly, compromised, prone to listen to prophets who say what they want to hear as the rest of us. Quite possible more so.

In other words, damn it, you don´t like what they say so you´re going to insist that they are evil without any argument and pretend it´s not a problem.
 
Posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider (# 76) on :
 
Oh, I don't pretend they're not a problem at all. Christian Concern are a real problem, making Christians look like a bunch of prejudiced bigots who have it in for anyone who's not straight and cisgender. But from my reading of your posts, that's what you want. You see gay and transgender people as fundamentally bad, and think it's fine to deny them their rights. And that is the problem.
 
Posted by gorpo (# 17025) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
My "agenda", Gorpo, is not to be an arsehole to people. To accept their own experience of being themselves.

Yours, and your fellow travellers', is apparently to insist they don't know the first thing about themselves and that they should accept your interpretation of a centuries old text set in a completely different culture, no matter how miserable that makes them.

And of course to openly display your hatred of wicked progressives who want to see people freed from your attempts to control their bodies and lives by denying them their rights.

Isn't there some wicked poofter queen tranny you can go and hate? Rather than pissing your bile here as usual.

Your ideology insist that some people are born in the wrong body (even if it is clinically healthy), and therefore they can go trough dozens of surgeries and hormone treatment in order to fix it. Then, after they go to the whole process, you find out that 40% of them attempt suicide. Yes, you´re ideology is telling you that they attempt suicide because of the discrimination they suffer (even tough other discriminated groups don´t show higher rates of suicide attempts then the overall population, for example, black people have lower rates of suicide then white people).

Your ideology claim that it is immoral to help those people by treating their mental disorder, because the right way to treat it is changing their body. Even if their lives after the transition becomes far worse then it was before.

Your ideology claims that this should be taught to children at a very early age, and that anyone who questions it is full of hate.

Your ideology claims that preaching people to accept and love their bodies is "controlling their bodies". Teaching that they shoul go trough a painful and unnatural transition and then have crappy life tryng to commit suicide is really freeing these people.

Yet you still think people are going to be impressed by you congratulating yourself for how good you are for supporting this poor suffering people.

[Disappointed]
 
Posted by gorpo (# 17025) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
Oh, I don't pretend they're not a problem at all. Christian Concern are a real problem, making Christians look like a bunch of prejudiced bigots who have it in for anyone who's not straight and cisgender. But from my reading of your posts, that's what you want. You see gay and transgender people as fundamentally bad, and think it's fine to deny them their rights. And that is the problem.

When will you accept that you have a problem with christianity, and not with a particular interpretation of it?

Wouldn´t it be a lot more honest from you to admit you hate christianity, and therefore, the more one church departs from christian beliefs, the better for you.

I don´t hate gay and transgender people, period.

I don´t deny their rights, period. And if someone does, I´ll do my best to defend them.

You don´t defend gay and transgender people. You only use them in order to attack traditional christianity. Otherwise, you´d be doing your best in order to lead them to Christ. Progressive "christians" are not concerned with leading the LGBT into the churches. They are concerned with expelling evangelicals and conservatives out of it, in order to have bigger control.
 
Posted by Alan Cresswell (# 31) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by gorpo:
Or would it make any difference in your worldview if the Bible and christianity did not exist at all. I´m pretty sure that liberal christians would believe the same things they do even if they have never heard of the bible or christianity at all. Because a liberal christian thinks the same as a liberal atheist, except for having the habit of going to church a few times a year.

I've no idea what you're on about. This liberal Christian disagrees on quite a few points with the atheists I know. I believe in a God who created and continues to sustain all things, and will make all things perfect at the end of time. I believe that God calls us to love our neighbour, to love Him, with all that we have. That may end up with my agreeing with my atheist friends about what we should do, it means I work with anyone who wants to promote economic, social and environmental justice. But, the motivation is different, it's to work towards the perfection that I believe God is working for. It gives confidence that we're fighting a battle that we'll ultimately win - even if I don't live to see it.

Oh, and unlike my atheist friends who spend their Sundays relaxing, or out on the streets doing something active towards furthering the goals of justice (eg: some friends have spent their entire weekends the last few weeks campaigning to have someone elected). I spend every Sunday in church, and regularly preach sermons rooted in the Scriptures - echoing the call of God to bring justice to the whole world.

Now, do you have something constructive to add. Or are you just going to continue posting ignorant idiocy, echoing the bollocks of the the likes of so-called "Christian Concern", showing yourself to be acting neither as a Christian nor with concern for your neighbours?
 
Posted by mousethief (# 953) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by gorpo:
[A] liberal christian thinks the same as a liberal atheist, except for having the habit of going to church a few times a year.

That's a flat-out lie and you should be ashamed for bearing false witness against your neighbor.
 
Posted by mousethief (# 953) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by ThunderBunk:
quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
Isn't there some wicked poofter queen tranny you can go and hate? Rather than pissing your bile here as usual.

Have pity on this poor person. At least the bile is diluted in here. We only have to take a small percentage each.
As someone who has had his gall bladder removed, and therefore among the bile challenged, I am offended by the bile references here.
 
Posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider (# 76) on :
 
Gorpo - do you believe same sex marriages should be legal? Simple yes or no will do. Then we'll find out whether you seek to deny them their rights.

As regards your bollocks on the transgender issue, I'll believe transgender people themselves over you, when they tell me transition has been to their benefit and suicidal thoughts are linked to being trapped in their gender assigned at birth, not to living as their self-identitied gender.

If I had a problem with Christianity I'd not bother with church tomorrow, nor the various theological issues I wrestle with on here. Your problem is that you think only conservative evangelicalism is the real deal.
 
Posted by Golden Key (# 1468) on :
 
gorpo--

quote:
Originally posted by gorpo:
You don´t defend gay and transgender people. You only use them in order to attack traditional christianity. Otherwise, you´d be doing your best in order to lead them to Christ. Progressive "christians" are not concerned with leading the LGBT into the churches. They are concerned with expelling evangelicals and conservatives out of it, in order to have bigger control.

Er, why do you assume that trans folks aren't Christians? And LGB folks, too?

I don't think being LGBT is sinful. But, even if it were, (news flash) Christians sin, too.

If, as I think, being trans means having a very difficult medical condition that other people don't understand, that doesn't bar them from being Christians, either.

If anything is holding non-Christian LGBT folks back from Christianity (if they're interested in it), it's the horrible ways they've been treated by many Christians and official Christianity.
 
Posted by mousethief (# 953) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
If anything is holding non-Christian LGBT folks back from Christianity (if they're interested in it), it's the horrible ways they've been treated by many Christians and official Christianity.

This. This with a double heaping of this on the side, with sauce of thisness.
 
Posted by Tubbs (# 440) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
If anything is holding non-Christian LGBT folks back from Christianity (if they're interested in it), it's the horrible ways they've been treated by many Christians and official Christianity.

This. This with a double heaping of this on the side, with sauce of thisness.
I don't think that just applies to non-Christian LGBT people.

You look at some of the hate filled crap that comes out of some sections of the church and kind of wonder what you're doing in the same ballpark as people who think like that ... All those church services don't seem to have taught them much.

[ 27. November 2017, 11:34: Message edited by: Tubbs ]
 
Posted by Lyda*Rose (# 4544) on :
 
Most Christians like to focus on certain bits of the Bible and not others.

Liberals tend to focus on serving the rejected and on the example of Jesus as counter-cultural and a healer, seeing God as loving and forgiving. They don't like judgment or hell. Although they may make an exception for judging conservatives although without predictions of hell for them.

Conservatives hone in on the parts that give a strict road map of don'ts and dos for living a righteous life, especially sexual don'ts (don't be gay or promiscuous, don't have abortions) and hierarchical dos (do obey God, the Bible, your dad, your husband, your pastor) and be ready for judgment if you don't obey. Not too big on tolerance of known and named sinners who leave the road map, who are surely hell-bound unless they repent. (Roy Moore is an exception.)

I pick and choose as much as most people. Of course, I choose the right parts. [Angel]
 
Posted by mousethief (# 953) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Tubbs:
You look at some of the hate filled crap that comes out of some sections of the church and kind of wonder what you're doing in the same ballpark as people who think like that ... All those church services don't seem to have taught them much.

On the contrary. That's where they learned it.
 
Posted by L'organist (# 17338) on :
 
All of which points to the pitfalls of accepting the bible in its current form.

There is a good case to be made for having a (Christian) bible that contains the OT (as accepted in the time of Christ) plus the gospels and nothing else. The epistles, it could be argued, are interpretative writings largely written by a man who never met Christ and who, moreover, could be said to have batted for the other side when Christ was around.
 
Posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider (# 76) on :
 
Rather I think it points to the necessity of recognising the primacy of the gospels. There's a reason we just read the OT and Epistle, but we process, cense if we're into that sort of thing, and stand for the gospel.
 
Posted by orfeo (# 13878) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
If anything is holding non-Christian LGBT folks back from Christianity (if they're interested in it), it's the horrible ways they've been treated by many Christians and official Christianity.

This. This with a double heaping of this on the side, with sauce of thisness.
Wow. Yep.

Gorpo complaining about liberal Christians not trying to get the LGBT into the churches? That's rich. Seeing as "Christians" like gorpo (oh look, I can use scare quotes too) are focused on pushing the LGBT out of the churches.
 
Posted by orfeo (# 13878) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by gorpo:
quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
Oh, I don't pretend they're not a problem at all. Christian Concern are a real problem, making Christians look like a bunch of prejudiced bigots who have it in for anyone who's not straight and cisgender. But from my reading of your posts, that's what you want. You see gay and transgender people as fundamentally bad, and think it's fine to deny them their rights. And that is the problem.

When will you accept that you have a problem with christianity, and not with a particular interpretation of it?

Wouldn´t it be a lot more honest from you to admit you hate christianity, and therefore, the more one church departs from christian beliefs, the better for you.

I don´t hate gay and transgender people, period.

I don´t deny their rights, period. And if someone does, I´ll do my best to defend them.

You don´t defend gay and transgender people. You only use them in order to attack traditional christianity. Otherwise, you´d be doing your best in order to lead them to Christ. Progressive "christians" are not concerned with leading the LGBT into the churches. They are concerned with expelling evangelicals and conservatives out of it, in order to have bigger control.

The last few days have been quite educational. I hadn't realised until now what a fuckwit you are.

I shall add you to the list.
 
Posted by Tubbs (# 440) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
quote:
Originally posted by Tubbs:
You look at some of the hate filled crap that comes out of some sections of the church and kind of wonder what you're doing in the same ballpark as people who think like that ... All those church services don't seem to have taught them much.

On the contrary. That's where they learned it.
Fair point.

Tubbs
 


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