Thread: Scotland the Brave 2017 Board: All Saints / Ship of Fools.


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Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :
 
As it's now just after 4 in the afternoon in Scotland, I think it might be safe for me to drop by with a half-bottle of Famous Grouse and wish you all a Happy New Year.

For those of you who are feeling a bit fragile, there's a box of paracetamol and a bottle of Irn-Bru™ in the medicine cupboard.
 

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Posted by Baptist Trainfan (# 15128) on :
 
My wife (coming from tand I were very pleased (after a lot of hunting) to be able to tune into the BBC Scotland Hogmanay celebrations last night.
 

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Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :
 
They'll never be the same without Scotch and Wry and the incomparable Rikki Fulton .
 

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Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
Wonder how the Ba' went in Kirkwall.

Probably messily.

AG
 

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Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Sandemaniac:
Wonder how the Ba' went in Kirkwall.

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Sadly, both the wrong way - Up.

The Christmas Men's one went Doon, and was over in under an hour.

I suppose we have to let the Uppies win now and again, so that the older chaps who have been playing for years get a chance to win while they're still young enough to walk.

[ 03. January 2017, 00:36: Message edited by: Piglet ]
 

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Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :
 
*bump*

Has anyone been watching the mini-series about the Ness of Brodgar in Orkney? A kindly soul posted the entire second episode on Facebook, so I got a chance to see it (I doubt if any of our squillions of channels over here will ever broadcast it - after all, if it doesn't feature Tutankhamen, Hitler or Nostradamus, the History Channel isn't interested).

I thoroughly enjoyed it - it was great to hear a few lovely Orkney accents (not anyone I actually knew, but still ...), and was very impressed that they got their reconstructed boat across the Pentland Firth - rather them than me!
 

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Posted by Jack the Lass (# 3415) on :
 
TME has been watching it properly, but I must admit I've been generally on the internet and only looked up occasionally Not that I'm addicted or anything. Orkney though is getting higher on my 'I want to go there soon' list. Maybe this year?

Is anyone here planning on going to the Women's March (which as I understand it is actually a static march, ie not actually going anywhere!) on Saturday? (11am outside the US consulate) I'm hoping to be there, hopefully with the Elf Lass and maybe TME too.
 

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Posted by Jack the Lass (# 3415) on :
 
Sorry, just realised I didn't specify - the march is in Edinburgh.
 

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Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on :
 
If you mean the US Consulate in Edinburgh, it appears to be closed on Saturdays. Will there be anybody there to see you?

(Don't let that put you off - the more marches agin Mango Man, the better).

IJ
 

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Posted by Jack the Lass (# 3415) on :
 
Oh yes, the organisers have already said they know it is closed - I assume the location was chosen for its symbolic value.
 

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Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on :
 
Well, I hope you get good TV coverage, anyhow.

Will the First Minister be joining you?

(Serious question - I've seen/read what she thinks about Trumpolini).

IJ
 

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Posted by Jack the Lass (# 3415) on :
 
Going by the comments on the facebook event page I understand she has a prior engagement. I'll be interested to see who they do get for keynote speeches though.
 

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Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on :
 
She's not attending the Trumpuration herself, is she?



Hmm. Possibly a diplomatic absence, though...

(BTW - I sort of belong on this thread, as I'm of Scottish descent on my Ma's side, and French on my Pa's side. I wonder which country the UKippers would like to send me back to?)

IJ
 

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Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Piglet:
*bump*

Has anyone been watching the mini-series about the Ness of Brodgar in Orkney?

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Celtic Knotweed and I have watched transfixed, moving only to top up the glass of Scapa/Highland Park.
 

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Posted by Pigwidgeon (# 10192) on :
 
This is wonderful!

 

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Posted by Alan Cresswell (# 31) on :
 
What channel is the Ness of Brodgar programme on?
 

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Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Jack the Lass:
... Orkney though is getting higher on my 'I want to go there soon' list. Maybe this year?

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Just do it!

Alan - BBC 2 - it's available on I-player if you're in the UK.

Sandemaniac and Knotweed - Slainte mhor!
 

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Posted by Baptist Trainfan (# 15128) on :
 
It was a brilliant programme, my wife wants to go there NOW.

Mind you, having watched Rick Stein earlier in the evening, she also wants to go to Cadiz. And Cadiz is - er - warmer.
 

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Posted by Curiosity killed ... (# 11770) on :
 
I'm saving the Orkney programme to watch this weekend with my daughter, already set up on my iPlayer account.

We went there last summer and saw that area, in a howling gale, too windy to be allowed on the beach to see Skara Brae, Ring of Brodgar a challenge to stay upright, let alone hold a camera steady.
 

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Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
Sounds familiar - we saw the Kitchener memorial at Marwick Head in horizontal rain, didn't dare go near the cliff edge for fear of flying off it.

AG
 

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Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :
 
When you're sandwiched between the Atlantic and the North Sea, "howling gale" is the default weather setting ...

Since leaving Orkney nearly 30 years ago (although I'm usually back once a year) I've completely lost my immunity to windy weather - what I'd have once called a light breeze is now a storm.

I'm turning into a wuss.

[ 18. January 2017, 02:41: Message edited by: Piglet ]
 

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Posted by North East Quine (# 13049) on :
 
I was in Orkney for two nights in October, as a sideways addition to the North 500. The weather was mild and balmy; we walked through Kirkwall licking ice cream cones.

I'd say that the sun shines on the righteous, but we had crossed the Bealach Na Ba three days earlier in lashing rain and lowering cloud.

Our B&B in Orkney was superb, I'd be happy to recommend it to anyone planning a visit.
 

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Posted by Alan Cresswell (# 31) on :
 
We had our honeymoon on Orkney. Which whetted our appetite for the place, but we never got to go back.

I've just watched three episodes back to back. Excellent show. Though, I might have prefered a mention of the work done 8-10 years ago dating the ditch at the Ring and some of the structures on the Ness - but, maybe only because I did the lab work (unfortunately, not any involvement in the excavation to get the samples).
 

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Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
... I did the lab work ...

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A vital and very cool part of the process, I'd have thought!

Orkney can be lovely in October; the only time we've been there at that time of year since we left was for weddings, and both times they got lovely days. Not hot, but sunny and mild - just the sort of day you'd want for a wedding.
 

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Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on :
 
What's all this stuff about Orkney? Scotland's far south-west (Dumfriesshire etc.) has much better weather - mild, soft, damp (admittedly - I recall my late Ma describing the state of her autumn garden as 'deliquescent'), but not quite so subject to the gales of the Far North....

IJ
 

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Posted by ArachnidinElmet (# 17346) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
I've just watched three episodes back to back. Excellent show. Though, I might have prefered a mention of the work done 8-10 years ago dating the ditch at the Ring and some of the structures on the Ness - but, maybe only because I did the lab work (unfortunately, not any involvement in the excavation to get the samples).

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quote:

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Originally posted by Bishops Finger:
What's all this stuff about Orkney? Scotland's far south-west (Dumfriesshire etc.) has much better weather - mild, soft, damp (admittedly - I recall my late Ma describing the state of her autumn garden as 'deliquescent'), but not quite so subject to the gales of the Far North....

IJ

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I dunno - the winds that hit my house can get pretty fierce. Not by Orkney standards, I'm sure, but my cherry tree is bent at an impressive angle, and the wind literally blows the paint off the walls. And I'm 7 miles inland. Mind you, there is nothing between me and Ireland when the sou'westers get a-blowin.

I've just realised I have a tree. That probably proves your point.
 

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Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on :
 
Quite so.

Ma didn't have a cherry tree - if she had had one, it would not have been permitted to get bent...

Mind you, she lived in a more sheltered part of the county.

IJ
 

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Posted by Cottontail (# 12234) on :
 
Can I just add that 'deliquescent' is my new favourite word?

to your Ma.
 

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Posted by Stercus Tauri (# 16668) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by North East Quine:
I was in Orkney for two nights in October, as a sideways addition to the North 500. The weather was mild and balmy; we walked through Kirkwall licking ice cream cones.

I'd say that the sun shines on the righteous, but we had crossed the Bealach Na Ba three days earlier in lashing rain and lowering cloud.

Our B&B in Orkney was superb, I'd be happy to recommend it to anyone planning a visit.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Cottontail:
... I've just realised I have a tree. That probably proves your point.

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Yup.

quote:

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Originally posted by Stercus Tauri:
... I'm not driving any more than necessary, and am tempted by the Aberdeen-Lerwick ferry ... Old age is creeping up on me.

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It certainly is - Lerwick is in Shetland.

Seriously though, the drive to the north isn't nearly as bad as it used to be (and if your last visit was in the time of the second St. Ola it must have been over 40 years ago). You can drive from Edinburgh to Gill's Bay in about 6 hours, where the Pentalina leaves for St. Margaret's Hope, and it only takes an hour and is considerably cheaper than the Scrabster ferry.
 

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Posted by Cottontail (# 12234) on :
 
I worked a summer on Shetland once. The houses had no numbers or street names, and were found mostly by description - turn left just after the cattle grid and it's the wee white house up the hill after the bungalow with the porch - that kind of thing.

Directions one morning: "You'll find it easily. It's the only house in the village with trees."

So I drive to the village and look around. No trees. I go down to the beach to get a panoramic view. No trees. I go up this road, and up that road, for a couple of miles just in case. No trees.

I go back to the beach and ponder. Then I realise that there is a house up there with a few ... shrubs ... in the garden. Sure enough.
 

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Posted by Stercus Tauri (# 16668) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Piglet:

quote:

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Originally posted by Stercus Tauri:
... I'm not driving any more than necessary, and am tempted by the Aberdeen-Lerwick ferry ... Old age is creeping up on me.

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It certainly is - Lerwick is in Shetland.

Seriously though, the drive to the north isn't nearly as bad as it used to be (and if your last visit was in the time of the second St. Ola it must have been over 40 years ago). You can drive from Edinburgh to Gill's Bay in about 6 hours, where the Pentalina leaves for St. Margaret's Hope, and it only takes an hour and is considerably cheaper than the Scrabster ferry.

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Merde... Kirkwall. I'd better take a guide dog.
 

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Posted by kingsfold (# 1726) on :
 
Though to be fair you can go from Aberdeen to Lerwick via Kirkwall....
 

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Posted by Alan Cresswell (# 31) on :
 
Things have improved since the days of boats made of cow hide and sticks. Paddling all the way from Aberdeen would get you fit, let alone all the way from Belgium with a cargo of voles.
 

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Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on :
 
I'm sorry - did you say 'voles' ?

As in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vole ?

Explanation, please.



IJ
 

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Posted by North East Quine (# 13049) on :
 
I'm on my hudl and can't link, but if you google "Orkney vole" (the wee furry one, not the blogger) all will be explained.
 

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Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on :
 
Ah yes - here we are:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orkney_vole

Thanks for that, NEQ!

Presumably these were imported to the islands as a useful and easy-to-breed foodstuff.

Any recipes, anyone?

IJ
 

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Posted by Alan Cresswell (# 31) on :
 
The Orkney voles got mentioned in the TV series about Orkney, as being unique to the Orkneys and most closely related to voles in Belgium - with the likely explanation that they came from northern Europe, by boat, bypassing the British mainland.
 

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Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
At risk of being uber geeky, how do you date sediment infill?

AG
(more than somewhat jealous)
 

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Posted by Alan Cresswell (# 31) on :
 
When you expose minerals (such as quartz or feldspars in sand) to radiation electrons are boosted into the conduction bands, where they subsequently return to lower energy states. Because minerals (especially natural ones) are imperfect there are some locations where these excited electrons get trapped. Add a bit more energy (eg: light or heat) and these can be released, in the process giving out light - a process known as photostimulated or thermal luminescence.

In a natural system if you have an event that clears the trapped electrons (eg: exposure to sunlight) then when those mineral grains get buried they start to accumulate trapped charge. So, take some material from a sedimentary sequence back to the lab and you can stimulate luminescence, measure the amount of light produced and after a controlled radiation you have a measure of the dose the grains received since they were buried. Measure the dose rate where the grains were collected and by dividing the stored dose by the dose rate you have a time since burial.

Of course, that's the simplified description. You are dealing with natural materials, and you may find that the particular minerals at your site don't have the right properties to give you the information you want. The signal may not have been cleared out before burial, giving a residual and apparently old age. Usually we'd measure groups of grains (50-100 at a time) to give a decent signal, with several different subsamples so we can spot when we have residuals - if we have grains with big signals we can measure single grains at a time, which can make separating out mixed age components a bit easier.

The method works very well with quartz, and hence windblown sand which gets zeroed as it's blown around gives very good dates. Waterborne sediments tend to carry residuals, and are usually harder to date. It's usually quite easy to distinguish between slow infill of a feature (windblown or gradual erosion of surface soils all get zeroed well) and rapid infill (which isn't usually well zeroed) - so if you have a filled in ditch or similar it's easy to see if it was filled slowly by natural processes or rapidly by a deliberate act.

It also works with heated items like pottery, bricks or stones used for cooking (or, as per the TV programme, saunas), which are zeroed by heat. And, in some cases structures destroyed by fire. Conversely, if you take a rock that's been buried for a long time and put it above ground then sunlight slowly bleaches the stored signals just below the surface, potentially allowing you to determine how long a stone has been above ground - in a wall, or a standing stone, or a quarry face. Depending on the minerals present and the dose rate, the technique can work for a range of dates from about 100 years through to a few million years.
 

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Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on :
 
Uber-geeky or not, fascinating stuff, and a fascinating job.

Alas, I have the sort of unscientific mind that simply wants to know why voles went from Belgium to Orkney!

BTW, is there any truth that, in the event of Br***it, Orcadians are to seek re-union with Norway?

IJ
 

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Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Bishops Finger:
... Alas, I have the sort of unscientific mind that simply wants to know why voles went from Belgium to Orkney!

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Because they have exquisite taste?

quote:

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BTW, is there any truth that, in the event of Br***it, Orcadians are to seek re-union with Norway?

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quote:

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Originally posted by Curiosity killed ...:
Alan, I have an incredibly dense description of micro-stratigraphy in archaeology text I use with new teachers (along with extracts on transition metals in enzymes and the forces on a circular track) to help them understand how challenging school textbooks are for poor readers. Textbooks need a reading age of 11 or 12 usually, it is not uncommon to encounter students with reading ages of 6 or 7 in secondary schools. These texts were ones I could find with reading ages of 22 and 23. I now don't want any of my victims to find your descriptions.

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I'm trying to work out if you're saying my very brief outline of luminescence dating is even less clear than your example text book, or incredibly lucid. I hope the latter.
 

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Posted by Curiosity killed ... (# 11770) on :
 
Sorry, lucid
 

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Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on :
 
Luminescence dating and voles?

Is it just me, or is this thread becoming somewhat surreal?

(None the worse for that, though, IMHO).

IJ
 

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Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :
 
Slightly surreal, but certainly intellectually stimulating.
 

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Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on :
 
Rather like Scotland itself then, no?



Love the Orcadian Voles, though.

IJ
 

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Posted by Stercus Tauri (# 16668) on :
 
Pretty sure they weren't pole cats. Checking Google images, they were about the right size, shape and colouring for mink. Or large voles.

quote:

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Originally posted by Jengie jon:
They 'invaded' in the 1950s and 1960s and were declared eradicated in 2011. Their range does not seem to have gone down as far south in the archipelago as Iona. The fact that there is a noisy healthy population of corncrakes would suggest their absence.

Jengie

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I saw the supposed mink in the dunes near the short grass of the grazing at the north end. I think the preferred habitat of the corncrakes is the areas of longer grass nearer the village, which is where I've mostly heard them. It was probably before 2011 - shaky memory - that I saw the mink, so perhaps they were still at large at that time. Always open to a better explanation - I'm no naturalist.
 

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Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on :
 
Perhaps all the mink have been eaten by battalions of VOLES from Orkney, sailing about on their rafts?



IJ
 

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Posted by North East Quine (# 13049) on :
 
Slightly surreal, but intellectually stimulating might describe my lengthy wait for a bus at Aberdeen bus station last week. A couple of us expressed our disappointment at finding ourselves waiting in sub zero temperatures to a passing bus station employee. "Just be grateful you're not in Aleppo or Beruit" he replied. "You'd have more to worry about then than a late bus." We all agreed that he had a point,then one woman said that her son had worked in Syria, and liked the people. However she disapproved of the hijab. To which the bus station employee said that he thought there should be a happy medium between hijab and young Scottish lassies "dressed like tarts" He then added, bafflingly, "And waxing,what the hell is that about?"

How does a conversation between strangers at a bus stop go from "how much longer is this bus going to be?" to "why do women wax?" in six sentences?

By the time the bus actually arrived, we had covered the winter of discontent, Nicola Sturgeon, the rail strikes in England, whether it would be possible to nationalise the buses and, if possible, whether it would be desirable to do so, overbooking by British Airways, Donald Trump, and whether, in the days of using newspaper squares for toilet paper, it was posher to hang the squares on a string or impale them on a nail.
 

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Posted by Alan Cresswell (# 31) on :
 
If those squares include photos of Trump, Farage or other fascist politicians then there's no debate ... the nail has it nailed.
 

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Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :
 
I should imagine you could get several years' supply from the newspapers of the last (and the coming) few days.


 

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Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on :
 
Not in my loo will such Trumpery be found. My Scottish/French p** is far too good to waste on Garbage, Mango Mussolini et al....

IJ
 

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Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
...and today Scots everywhere celebrate their national poet, a man who drank and shagged himself into the ground at 37.

Good work that man!

AG
 

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Posted by Cottontail (# 12234) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Sandemaniac:
...and today Scots everywhere celebrate their national poet, a man who drank and shagged himself into the ground at 37.

Good work that man!

AG

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Ahem.

As one who has in her time delivered The Immortal Memory and did here research thereon, Burns died for neither drinking nor shagging reasons.

Google suggests it was rheumatic fever; elsewhere I have read that he contracted bacterial endocarditis, i.e., an infection of the inner lining of the heart. Hard to diagnose from a distance, but my quick googling suggests that they are both caused pretty much the same way - by a bacterial infection - and have similar symptoms.

So basically, the poor man caught a streptococcal infection as a result of a dental extraction, and it spread to his heart. He had also lived through months of actual famine, which culminated in the Dumfries Food Riots of March 1796. It was a slow and miserable death, poor chap.

[ 25. January 2017, 10:43: Message edited by: Cottontail ]
 

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Posted by Baptist Trainfan (# 15128) on :
 
Well, we bought our haggis this morning.

When I took it out of the shopping bag it leaped from my hand and rolled around on the floor. Clearly a free-range one, straight from the wild Cairngorms (well, Carluke actually)!
 

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Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on :
 
Och aye, feisty wee beasties they maun be - but nae sleekit or timorous...!

*hic* Slainte!

(Cheers)

IJ
 

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Posted by Baptist Trainfan (# 15128) on :
 
You've clearly been at the Irn-Bru again!
 

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Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on :
 
Och, ma puir heid....



IJ
 

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Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Cottontail:
Ahem.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Sandemaniac:

quote:

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Originally posted by Cottontail:
Ahem.

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Well that told me, didn't it? There I was looking for some alcoholic escapism, and I get proper history instead. Mind you, I didn't realise we had real famines in the "mainland"* Union that late - I thought the last ones were in the sixteenth century in Northern England. That I guess is what comes of being a Saes Neg.

AG

*thus dodging Ireland and spuds

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According to this reputable source, 1795/6 took us "to the brink of famine". So we are both right.

The riots happened all across the country too. The first and third google hits for "bread riots 1795" are Tewkesbury and Islington.
 

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Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :
 
Whatever he died of (for some reason I always imagined it was tuberculosis*), I hope you've all enjoyed your haggis, clapshot. whisky and poetry.**

Slainte mhor!

* what respectable poets and composers died of. Unrespectable ones died of syphilis.

** According to D., we'd be much better celebrating MacGonnigall, as his poetry's more fun.
 

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Posted by Cottontail (# 12234) on :
 
I delivered the Immortal Memory of Robert Burns in the style of William McGonagal. It was frightening how easy it was to write bad poetry.
 

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Posted by North East Quine (# 13049) on :
 
There was famine in the north of Scotland in the late 1690s. Hekla erupted in 1693. Most of the ash fell on Scandinavia, causing famine there, but enough fell on northern Scotland to cause several consecutive years of poor harvest. Aberdeen closed its gates to poor people leaving the countryside in search of food in the city. Poor relief provision collapsed under the strain.

The Scottish government introduced a one off poll tax in 1696. The poll tax records are a great boon to family historians (assuming your ancestors were sufficiently well off to be assessed for the tax.)

Just last week I was cross referencing the parish poll tax lists with the list of first communicants in the early C18th Kirk session records. (Yes, my life really is that exciting!)
 

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Posted by North East Quine (# 13049) on :
 
(Our Kirk session records start in 1713, so the poll tax lists are a way of pushing the parish history back into the C17th).
 

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Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
Actually that's really interesting because I think my Sandemans (Sandemen?) just creep back past 1696.

AG
 

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Posted by Stercus Tauri (# 16668) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Cottontail:
I delivered the Immortal Memory of Robert Burns in the style of William McGonagal. It was frightening how easy it was to write bad poetry.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Sandemaniac:
Actually that's really interesting because I think my Sandemans (Sandemen?) just creep back past 1696.

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I reckon any history that you can relate to "real" people is interesting. My last job involved using a computer program to produce family trees for a genetics researcher, and I was particularly impressed with one that went back to the 1690s - when William and Mary were the rulers of Britain and Bach could only just reach the pedals.


 

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Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on :
 
Ah yes - the USA is not the only country to be ruled by an Orange.

I'll see meself out...

IJ
 

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Posted by Barnabas Aus (# 15869) on :
 
Especially for Piglet and any other Orcadians who haunt these pages. BBC News
 

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Posted by Uncle Pete (# 10422) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Barnabas Aus:
Especially for Piglet and any other Orcadians who haunt these pages. BBC News

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Fixed that for you
 

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Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on :
 
Good heavens! He looks like Richard Branson.....


A wonderful photo of the Cathedral, too - what a superb building. I bet the Church of Norway would like it back....


IJ
 

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Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
It's stunning inside too - and they run high-level tours of all the stuff under the eaves. Not for the vertigo-inclined, but great fun if you can handle heights.


A
 

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Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Bishops Finger:
Good heavens! He looks like Richard Branson.....

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I thought so too, BF, although D. reckoned Noel Edmunds.

I'm glad you liked the Cathedral - pretty stunning, eh?

Piglet, proudly Orcadian
 

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Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on :
 
Hmm. I see what D. means, though!

Given the historical period during which St. Magnus lived and died, one somehow feels that a proper silver reliquary would be a better setting for his mortal remains, rather than being walled up in a pillar (splendid and Romanesque though it might be).

Perhaps when the Church of Norway acquires it (the Cathedral, I mean)?



IJ
 

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Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :
 
I don't know - I've always been used to the fact that he's in the pillar on one side of the organ pipes, and St. Rognvald (his nephew, who built the cathedral in his memory) is on the other.

I understand it's quite rare (possibly even unique) to have the bones of both the founder and the patron saint in the same place.
 

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Posted by moonlitdoor (# 11707) on :
 
Has anyone here been to Knoydart ? Ideally by walking but I am also interested in your experience if you've been by boat. It has long been an ambition of mine, if I would be physically up to the challenge.

I mean in the summer rather than now, I am definitely not that tough.
 

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Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on :
 
Piglet, this is rapidly becoming the Orcadian thread, but none the worse for that! Something of a Terra Incognita to those of us whose nearest next county (almost) is France....

You may well be right in thinking that St. Magnus Cathedral is unique in housing the bodies of both founder and patron. I see from their website that the place of St. Magnus' interment is marked with a neat plaque - does St. Rognvald have one, too?

And am I right in thinking that the Cathedral is the largest Romanesque building in Northern Europe?

I'm not really up to travelling far at the moment, but perhaps one day.....?

IJ
 

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Posted by Baptist Trainfan (# 15128) on :
 
Well, we are going to hear an Orcadian folk-group next Monday - in Colchester, Essex!
 

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Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on :
 
Enjoy! No doubt a mixture of Orcadian, Scottish, Faroese, Norse etc. music and songs - will there be dancing too?

TBH, a lot of Nordic folk music sounds similar, to me at any rate, which perhaps is because of our common roots, ancestry, history etc. All of which, like much music the world over, transcends political and language barriers....

Here's the Kirkjuvagr* Ceilidh Band playing Shetland music, just to show how ecumenical the Orcadians are!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEfbsArE_ig&nohtml5=False

(*the Norse version of Kirkwall)

IJ
 

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Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :
 
After watching BF's link, it clicked on to the next one and there, in the front of the picture watching the dancers, was one of my best friends from school.

Small world, eh?

I wouldn't have thought that St. Magnus was the biggest Romanesque building in northern Europe* but I think it's probably regarded as one of the finest.

* it was built by the same people who built Durham Cathedral (it was the next job along) and is rather like a smaller version of Durham.

[ 11. February 2017, 03:25: Message edited by: Piglet ]
 

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Posted by Curiosity killed ... (# 11770) on :
 
We visited Orkney last summer - and attended a service in St Magnus's. The building was incredible, but I struggled with the service - non-conformist, sermon based on an OT reading that had me trying very hard to go to sleep in preference to hearing it. However, the monthly in summer (RC) service in the Italian chapel the same afternoon was simple and dignified with a sermon on peace and reconciliation that has stayed with me.

The statue of John Rae in St Magnus entranced me. He's portrayed asleep, with boots and gun. (There's another statue of him in Stromness, standing, ready to sail.)

Bishop's Finger - I went to Orkney with my daughter, just after she had had hand surgery*. She's losing mobility, but we managed to get around on buses and a minimum of walking around, much to my disappointment because I'd love to cycle or walk more. We tried to visit Skara Brae, but the weather was too windy for it to be safe to go down to the village, and the Ring of Brodgar the same day. I walked up to the Ring and was struggling to hold a camera up to take pictures in that wind while she opted out.

She didn't have long to go away so we parted at Inverness on the way back and I travelled south via Aberdeen, Stonehaven and Dunottar Castle then Arran and Lochranza.

*She was still in a cast and her operation wound became infected. The accident and emergency in Kirkwall was brilliant, much better than that on offer in Thurso. Fortunately I can't comment on A&E in Inverness, but it was close.
 

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Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on :
 
I think you must all be working for the Orkney Tourist Board! I really must make the effort one day.....soon.....

Piglet, I had forgotten (!) about Durham Cathedral, which probably is the biggest Romanesque church in Northern Europe. Kirkwall still looks pretty impressive, though. Given what CK has said, maybe the liturgy could do with tweaking a little....er.... higher up the candle?



IJ
 

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Posted by Curiosity killed ... (# 11770) on :
 
Another joy was the dolphin in the harbour at Kirkwall. We wandered down for fish and chips, found the dolphin and stayed to watch (gluten free takes much longer). One pass near the harbour wall seemed designed to make sure we could all get a good identification. Somewhere I have photos of red telephone boxes near the cathedral being removed.

I loved Dunottar Castle and Stonehaven too, not so impressed by Aberdeen. And I liked Arran and Lochranza so much we're going back this year.
 

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Posted by cattyish (# 7829) on :
 
My folks moved to Caithness in 1977 and Dad still lives on the north coast. We can see The Old Man of Hoy from Scarfskerry.

Caithness is behind Orkney in making use of the natural, historical and cultural resources for tourism. New projects like The Caithness Broch Project and North Coast 500 are opening up opportunities for visitors and residents.

Cattyish, lazy today
 

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Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Bishops Finger:
... maybe the liturgy could do with tweaking a little....er.... higher up the candle?

---

The Cathedral is in a unique position in that it doesn't belong to any particular church. It was given to the burghers (the town officials) of Kirkwall in the 1500s by the King of Scotland because he thought the bishop was getting too uppity, and to this day belongs to the people of Kirkwall.

Its (considerable) upkeep is paid for by Orkney Islands Council and the Church of Scotland (Presbyterian) has the use of it for services. All the congregation has to pay is the salaries of the minister and organist* and half the heat and light.

When we lived there, the services were very traditional Church of Scotland - always beginning with a metrical psalm, then a sandwich of hymns, lessons, sermon, anthem. The style has changed somewhat since we left, and become a little less formally structured, although they still follow the same basic pattern.

Having said that, in the last couple of years they introduced a bank of votive candles, which would have some late members of the congregation spinning in their graves ...

I quite like the idea of the North Coast 500; I suppose I must have travelled the right-hand side of it at least 500 times. I always love it when you start seeing signs that say "A9 North".

* who is paid peanuts.

[ 11. February 2017, 23:33: Message edited by: Piglet ]
 

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Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on :
 
Thanks, Piglet - I didn't realise St. Magnus' Cathedral actually belonged to the people. The set-up sounds rather like the French system!

The present sort of service (I assume it changes at least in detail from week to week, or season to season) has a distinctly Celtic/Iona feel to it, IMHO.

IJ
 

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Posted by Baptist Trainfan (# 15128) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Piglet:
I always love it when you start seeing signs that say "A9 North".

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Bishops Finger:
Thanks, Piglet - I didn't realise St. Magnus' Cathedral actually belonged to the people. The set-up sounds rather like the French system!

The present sort of service (I assume it changes at least in detail from week to week, or season to season) has a distinctly Celtic/Iona feel to it, IMHO.

IJ

---

A recent minister of St Magnus - Rev Ron Ferguson - had been the leader of the Iona Community, so I am sure he had something to do with it. It's hard to characterise Iona worship - it varies between the sublime and the excruciating, depending on who is leading the service. Hope we'll be in Kirkwall too in a few months to find out for ourselves.
 

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Posted by Pangolin Guerre (# 18686) on :
 
First time that I've popped into the Scotland thread...

This Orcadian discussion has put me in a nostalgic - almost melancholic - frame of mind. On my first trip outside Canada, among my adventures was hiking Mainland, Orkney. The woman at whose b&b I was staying (crest of the ridge above Stromness, I think had a glass transom that read "Simpsons") had a hyper-intelligent border collie, Bobby, who followed me from Stromness to Skarra Brae and back. (Once I ceased telling him to Go Home, he was impeccably obedient.) I loved the landscape, the sea, the people. Even thirty years on, I look back on it as one of the happiest times of my life.

One of the things that struck me about St Magnus's was the patterned floor tiling, so much so that I took photos. I also recall being struck by the presence, on the altar, of a model of a Viking longship.

I think that I should go pour a dram of Highland Park just now.
 

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Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :
 
Quite right, PG. Slainte mhor!*

* OK, that's Gaelic, which doesn't happen in Orkney, but you get the idea.
 

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Posted by Alan Cresswell (# 31) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Pangolin Guerre:


I think that I should go pour a dram of Highland Park just now.

---

Is there ever a time when it isn't a good time to pour a dram of Highland Park?
 

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Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on :
 
No.

(BTW, stor seier, wot Mr. Google says is Norwegian for slainte mhor, and therefore perhaps more appropriate for Orcadia).



IJ
 

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Posted by Jack the Lass (# 3415) on :
 
This weekend saw the opening for the 2017 season for the Bo'ness and Kinneil steam railway, so as the weather was so lovely we spent this afternoon there. It was lovely - well worth a trip for those of you near the central belt.
 

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Posted by North East Quine (# 13049) on :
 
I had a great night last night at the announcement of the winner of the Wallace Monument hall of heroes heroine.

Both Mary Slessor and Jane Haining were in the top five in the public vote.

There was a poetry reading by Gerda Stevenson and a speech by Dolina McLennan. I found myself looking at Dolina thinking that I'd love to be so slim, so well dressed and so bright as her. She's 79, so I have 27 years to work on it.
 

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Posted by Jack the Lass (# 3415) on :
 
Last weekend we had a lovely long weekend on the island of Gigha, in the southern Hebrides. It was such a simple place - one shop, one hotel, one decent restaurant, one fancy house with gardens (beautifully and vaguely weedy), and lots of tiny beaches with perfect white sand. We had enormous cooked breakfasts in our B&B which set us up for the day, then mooched around and explored, it was glorious. I must say (again) how tempting island life is (that feeling was particularly acute once I went back to work. And was reinforced by waking up on Friday and discovering we're now living in a Tory constituency).

I'd need to find something to nuke the midges though. We've been back since Tuesday and I'm still scratching the bites.
 

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Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :
 
I'm heading over for a spot of Island Life this week; flying to Glasgow on Tuesday and on up to Orkney with my sister on Friday to see my dad (who's 92 and failing) and take in a few concerts at the St. Magnus Festival, which I haven't been able to get to since 1988.

Looking forward to it!
 

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Posted by Wet Kipper (# 1654) on :
 
welcome back !

will you just be up north ?
 

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Posted by kingsfold (# 1726) on :
 

quote:

---

posted by Jack the Lass:
I'd need to find something to nuke the midges though. We've been back since Tuesday and I'm still scratching the bites.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Wet Kipper:
welcome back !

will you just be up north ?

---

Thanks, WK - I'm flying to Glasgow tomorrow night and I'll be in Edinburgh until Friday, then flying up to Orkney until Tuesday and back to Edinburgh until the Friday after that, then home on Saturday. I did wonder about arranging a meet, but sort of didn't get round to it (you know how it is).

Re: midgies and islands - the edges of the islands might be fine, but I remember Dad having to give up after half an hour of picking blackcurrants in his garden in Kirkwall because he was being eaten alive.

I have bite-gel in my suitcase ...

eta: they don't just live in Scotland either - when we moved here last summer I was bitten to buggery.

[ 12. June 2017, 19:21: Message edited by: Piglet ]
 

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Posted by Alan Cresswell (# 31) on :
 
Is it one of those "more Scottish than Scotland" places, trying to out-Scottish the rivals with added authenticity?
 

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Posted by Arethosemyfeet (# 17047) on :
 
Surely every Orcadian knows that Kirkwall doesn't count as island - it's on the mainland after all.
 

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Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :
 
Fair point, Arethosemyfeet! Doesn't keep the midgies away though ...

I don't even know if the New Brunswick bugs are what we'd call midgies - they're maybe more likely to be mosquitoes - but they don't half bite.
 

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Posted by Curiosity killed ... (# 11770) on :
 
I tried very hard to play with the wee midgies over half term, but failed. I need to plot how to revisit that idea.
 

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Posted by Stercus Tauri (# 16668) on :
 
One of the best ever trips back to Scotland in May, visiting family, friends and familiar places; also some new places. A week on Orkney was heavenly - will be back there before long. Perfect weather the whole time, even on Iona. Then we drove to New York to visit the latest granddaughter and her family last week - too much! I will never be a city boy. Orkney is perfect for me.
 

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Posted by Arethosemyfeet (# 17047) on :
 
May is a good time to be in the Inner Hebrides - we get the best weather in May/June usually - and it was especially fine this year.
 

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Posted by Stercus Tauri (# 16668) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Arethosemyfeet:
May is a good time to be in the Inner Hebrides - we get the best weather in May/June usually - and it was especially fine this year.

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The key word is "usually"... Last year when I went at the beginning of May it snowed the day before I got there and the bus had trouble crossing Mull. The previous year in May it never stopped raining. But this year was the driest I've ever seen it, and even the mill stream beside the Abbey was almost dried up. Most other years I've gone in October, which generally takes the uncertainty out of getting rained on. The lady at whose B&B I usually stay reckons she can predict the weather by my travel plans.
 

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Posted by North East Quine (# 13049) on :
 
We are supposed to be experiencing Storm Caroline, but it hasn't hit yet. It's a bit breezy, but that is all.

Anyone else?
 

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Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on :
 
Mild and blustery (SW wind) down here in the bottom right-hand corner, but the forecast is for NW wind later - and much lower temperatures, and even sn*w...

Not wishing her on you, NEQ, but maybe Caroline's running a bit late?

I blame Tr**p.

IJ
 

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Posted by Alan Cresswell (# 31) on :
 
We had a good soaking last night. But, nothing extraordinary. Not even that my car chose that moment to suddenly grind to a stop so the AA man and I got drenched - him while dismantling the brake that fell apart and jammed on as I was driving (fortunately very slowly, backing into a parking space ... dread to think what would have happened had I been doing even 20mph) so the car could be towed to a garage, me to sign various things on the tablet thing where he recorded what he did.
 

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Posted by North East Quine (# 13049) on :
 
Caroline has arrived, about 6 hours late. She was supposed to have been past and leaving by early afternoon.

High winds and driving rain here.
 

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Posted by kingsfold (# 1726) on :
 
Hold onto your hats.....

(It was a bit breezy here last night, but nothing really OTT)
 

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Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on :
 
Alan, thank God you weren't driving at any speed, or on the open road.

Why do these car calamities always happen when it's pissing down with rain or sn*w?

Meanwhile, down here out of Caroline's Evil Clutches, we've had a fine orange sunset, but the temperature is falling....

IJ
 

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Posted by Jack the Lass (# 3415) on :
 
A bit of wind and rain here in Stirling too, but nothing particularly out-of-the-ordinary. Hope NEQ and cattyish have battened down the hatches though.

Windy Wilson is forecasting Baltic temperatures on Sunday though (Do you know Windy Wilson? Scotland's best (and sweariest) amateur weatherman, well worth a follow on facebook).
 

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Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :
 
There were some quite good photographs of the effects of Caroline on the Orkney photographic page on Facebook this morning, and the Scrabster/Stromness ferry got stuck.

Of course, in Orkney that's just "a peedie bit breezy" ...

In other news, the Big Tree in Kirkwall has been named as Scotland's Tree of the Year.


 

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Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on :
 
I thought you meant that the ferry had stuck on a reef or sandbank or something, but not so - she simply couldn't get safely into harbour.

News Report

Looks like a well-appointed vessel, so let's hope she's well stocked with such delicacies as GIN, WHISKY, PIE, CAKE etc. for those on board overnight...

IJ
 

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Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :
 
The Hamnavoe is a well-appointed ship, but D. and I never use her if we can avoid it because (a) she comes in at the wrong end of Orkney; and (b) even on a normal day takes half as long again as the Pentalina, which comes in at the right end and is owned and run by a bloke who was in my class at school.

The Pentland Firth is a very nasty piece of water (you've got the Atlantic meeting the North Sea in a channel less than 20 miles wide), and can be treacherous even on what appears like a calm day. I have less-than-fond memories of the first roll-on/roll-off ferry they had on the Stromness-Scrabster run (she came on in the mid-1970s and at the time was the only way to get cars to Orkney). For whatever reason, she had been built just the wrong size for the size of the waves you get in the Firth and even on a calm day she had a horrid corkscrew-like motion - and she took 2 hours.

[ 07. December 2017, 20:50: Message edited by: Piglet ]
 

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Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on :
 
I see that MS Hamnavoe eventually docked earlier today (presumably having run out of WHISKY, GIN etc. etc.)....

IJ
 

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Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on :
 
On reflection, I seem to be casting unfounded nasturtiums on the habits of sea-bound Orcadians.

Umble Apollo Gees.

It does sound as though Storm Caroline has brought Scotland some windy weather, complete with sn*w, all complete, and got up regardless.

Nothing out of the ordinary, then.



IJ
 

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Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :
 
Indeed. I don't envy the passengers one bit.
 

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Posted by M. (# 3291) on :
 
Not a hint of a snowflake around the Falkirk- ish area yesterday, not even on the hills. The only snow I saw was a bit on the step of the train going to King's Cross as I got on.

M.
 

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Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on :
 
Nor down 'ere neither, not yet.



Who knows what tomorrow might bring? Rain and wind, it seems, but little or no sn*w (so a few of the faithful - the Usual Suspects - might make it to church....).

IJ
 

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Posted by North East Quine (# 13049) on :
 
Took the train to visit my parents today and some of the snow covered scenery was breathtakingly beautiful.

Lots of other people were also taking the train instead of risking the roads and the train was jam packed. It was an ...interesting ....journey.
 

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Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :
 
We seem to have acquired about 6 inches of snow this evening.
 

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Posted by Baptist Trainfan (# 15128) on :
 
Oh dear,fly-tipping is really getting to be a problem!
 

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Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :
 
Time to tidy away this old thread and start a new one.

Thread closed.

Piglet, AS host
 

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