Ship of Fools: Your suggestions for debate threads

Thread: Your suggestions for debate threads Board: The Laugh Judgment / Ship of Fools.

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Posted by Simon (# 1) on :

Thanks for the discussion so far, everyone. There are now 45 jokes posted here, and more are to follow. I think this is a good point to pull together some of the themes we're encountering and start a few threads where we can debate them. The suffering of Christ and the stereotyping of priests might be two such themes/threads... but what themes would you like to see opened up for debate here?

Posted by ACOL-ite (# 4991) on :

What about: who can certain tell jokes / who can we tell them too?

I mean things like: can I (as a non-Jew) tell that joke about praying to win the Lottery? How do we feel telling non-Christian friends religious jokes?

Posted by Ariel (# 58) on :

Celibacy and a perceived anti-Catholic bias in some forms of religious jokes. You don't get half as many jokes about the Archbishop of Canterbury as you do about the Pope. Priests in religious jokes tend to be equated with Catholic paedophiles and celibates often seem to be the target of jokes. Have you had any jokes about Orthodox clergy or other denominations or practices specific to them?

I'm finding some of the obviously Catholic ones hard to take. It might be easier from another perspective where I was less personally involved. But I'm curious to get an idea of roughly what proportion of what you've received is overtly about Catholic clergy or practices as opposed to any other denomination. There is a lot of stereotyping in humour - there always has been since the stock characters of Greek and Roman comedy - it would be interesting to see what other denominations could come up with.

Posted by Chorister (# 473) on :

Two common themes in jokes appear to involve the Virgin Mary
and nuns

Or perhaps they could both be included in a general theme about the treatment of women in religious jokes

Posted by Sarkycow (# 1012) on :

How about a general discussion, on where the boundaries are.

Where does something become too sacred to laugh at, or beyond the bounds of making fun of? Can something ever be too sacred? Why?

Sarkycow

Posted by Newman's Own (# 420) on :

I should like to see some discussion of religious humour in a more general sense - not only in relation to what is offensive or could be so perceived. I'm aware of the goals of the project, but should enjoy seeing what Ship mates find appealing in religious or church-related humour.

Posted by Ariel (# 58) on :

What actually is blasphemy? What constitutes it, do we recognize it as a valid concept any more?

Posted by themanwiththegingerhair (# 9691) on :

Many of the jokes I have seen in other non-religious guises. The only thing that makes them religious is that the person involved is a priest etc.

What jokes genuinely rely on the religious context?

Posted by inquisitiveunbeliever (# 9803) on :

One thing that isn't really being discussed so much is the original intention of all this - to talk about offence, religious hatred, censorship etc.

One thing I have noticed is that the jokes rarely attack religion - they are either 'inside' jokes for christians (perhaps of a particular denomination) or just generally offensive (ie all the paedophile ones).

One thing they definitely don't do is to 'incite religious hatred'. They might make religious people hate the teller (if they were very touchy) but they wouldn't make other listeners hate Christians. Perhaps a possible exception is the ongoing stereotype about Catholic priests and children, which could cause violence and prejudice on the part of impressionable people.

I'd like to know whether people think this new act will have any effect on humour (personally, I don't think it has any such intention) and indeed whether it ought to. I'm also interested by what was said about the Bible itself being an incitement to hatred against 'idolaters' - how far can people go with the idea of righteousness and damnation before it just turns into hatred and prejudice?

Posted by jlg (# 98) on :

The importance of context.

Telling a joke verbally in a situation where you have a sense of the people hearing it and their mood and hang-ups is much different than randomly posting a text version on a web-site.

As I pointed out here: responses to jokes are going to be heavily influenced by both their emotional investment in particular religious/church beliefs and allegiances, combined with the recipient's ability to not take the joke personally.

I personally simply can't take a text-medium joke as offensive - it has no context. I have no idea who said it, what beliefs/personality/motive are behind it. Whether I find it funny or not seems to be extremely dependent upon my mood at the time I read it. Which again says nothing about the joke and everything about (my personal at that moment) context.

[ 17. July 2005, 21:43: Message edited by: jlg ]

Posted by Anie (# 9728) on :

How about opening a debate on the controversy surrounding Paul's conversion. Some say he was blackmailed into professing followership of Jesus' faith. On charges os Adultry!. Could this be true?

Posted by hatless (# 3365) on :

Do you have to be proud to take offence? The self-important are the most easily offended. The genuinely humble, and the truly self-confident are perhaps the hardest to offend.

After the scandal of the cross, is there such a thing as offence towards God or Jesus?

Posted by Marquis (# 9750) on :

I am finding it very interesting that there are only certain denominations that appear to be offered some sort of "offense Protection". Jokes that are anti-catholic or anti-jewish get sprited rebuttal from just about all of us, but jokes that are anti C of E (for example) appear to get glossed over. Perhaps it is due to a lack of response from the C of E (for example)members, perhaps it stems from the fact that everyone just assumes that the C of E (for example) folks will just grin and bear it. Whatever it is, I find it very interesting.

And yes, I am C of E (as an example)! [Razz]

Posted by Lamb Chopped (# 5528) on :

This is doubtless flameworthy, but somebody (not me, [Big Grin]

I can't remember who) said that they believed Jews and RCs got a "pass" on this because of a prevailing cultural idea, "Poor dears, they can't help it." But run-of-the-mill Protestants are fair game because they have supposedly "chosen" to believe what they believe, and can be mercilessly mocked.

I don't know whether this theory is more offensive to the Jews/RCs or to the Protestants. [Ultra confused]

Posted by Long-Johns Silver (# 1763) on :

I understand the need to close the list in order to select a top ten, but what about having a forum for the 'latecomers' - one's people have just remembered & for folks like me who've been busy then on holiday. Whilst these jokes can't be in the top ten it would be a shame if some goodies could not be shared because they were too late.

Posted by Equestrian Bob (# 9505) on :

I.'m not sure if this is the right thread for this but am I the only person who find the Comedian Ricky Gervais offensive and unfunny in the extreme.

THE OFFICE was the most smutty filth I have ever seen on the telly and a major turn off. I seemed to miss the bit where the so called Evangelical or Liberal Christian Leader attacked this muck. Did it ever happen.

Right I am going to say it Rick Gervais - you are not funny, you are smutty and you are vastly overpaid for someone with dubious talent. Mind you he probably does nto think I'm particularly funny either.

There that's got it off me chest - for now any way

Posted by Procrastinus (# 9915) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Equestrian Bob:
am I the only person who find the Comedian Ricky Gervais offensive and unfunny in the extreme.

THE OFFICE was the most smutty filth I have ever seen on the telly and a major turn off.

I don't really like Gervais, particularly in interviews, but The Office the most smutty filfth you've ever seen on the telly ?!? [Eek!]

Do you not watch much television ? [Confused]

Also, don't remember any religious content - offensive or otherwise - were you thinking of any particular joke or plotline ?

Posted by Papio. (# 4201) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Equestrian Bob:
THE OFFICE was the most smutty filth I have ever seen on the telly and a major turn off.

Just out of curiosity, do you have Channel 5?

Posted by Divine Outlaw Dwarf (# 2252) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Equestrian Bob:

THE OFFICE was the most smutty filth I have ever seen on the telly and a major turn off.

I actually think you could get a decent sermon out of the final episode. But the 'most smutty filth', get a grip, perlease.

Posted by Brendan (# 10223) on :

All this discussion about what is or is not funny is interesting, but let's get to the real issue: what jokes, if any, should be against the law?

Here are some criteria:

Any law must pass the Python test (those films are philosophy by other means, aside from their comic qualities), the Nietzsche test (I can imagine some Christians finding his work offensive, too bad we're not taking him off the curriculum), the critique-of-power test (sniggering at crowns and croziers is part of the stuggle for freedom) and the but-you-don't-have-to-watch-it test (so we censor billboards and TV trailers but not theatre or books, and push in a liberal direction re. post-watershed TV).

I'm struggling to think how a new law could pass these tests AND at the same time extend current UK legislation, let alone achieve the stated aims of this bill.

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