Thread: Just a movie, just a book, just good reading (Dan Brown in general) Board: The Da Vinci Code / Ship of Fools.


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Posted by tammierene (# 11405) on :
 
Good for Dan Brown. He jumped on the 'American Way' and made a buck..or two. The teachings of Jesus remain the same...whether you follow or don't follow, Dan Brown hasnt changed the Bible. Have you read Mr. Brown's posts to questions on his site? Go to http://www.danbrown.com and click on the FAQs. He never claims anything is fact..as reported, he claims the documents exist that he based the novel on. No biggie, he interpreted or he got an idea for a book. Good for him. Ive read books on Christopher Columbus that I figure may or may not be fact too. From what I've heard, so far, the movie, nor the book, claim to be a documentary. It's fiction...and damn good reading. Stephen King throws actual events and such in his books too, but no one jumps him for it. If you put aside trying to believe or not believe or disprove a work of fiction, you may find it is darn good reading. Ive read all of Mr. Brown's books. I enjoyed them all. At no time did I confuse reality with fiction. I feel there is nothing wrong with healthy discussion about possibilities and other points of view. However, if you are deep in the Christian faith and the Da Vinci Code can shake your faith/view....you had issues before the book/movie.

[ 17. May 2006, 21:14: Message edited by: Louise ]
 

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Posted by Golden Key (# 1468) on :
 
Welcome to the ship, TR. I pretty much agree with you.
 

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Posted by noneen (# 11023) on :
 
welcome to the ship Tammierene !!
up until today i would have agreed with you on this topic ... i felt that we were getting all wound up and offering publicity to the film.

Today however i was listening to the radio which had a 'first review of the film' thing going on. They had asked a priest and a film critic to see it.

The film critic said two things :
Firstly the church should stop giving out and being so silly about it all (that we are all mature enough to distinguish between fact and fiction was her point), and then
Secondly, that this book just expressed the 'zietgeist'of the moment. That people all knew that the church oppressed and oppresses women and that 'they' all covered up paedophilia too. So people liked the book cause it expressed peoples feelings about church.

I agreed with the first point, but the second one threw me for six ...?!?! I was a bit stunned that she equated a fictional novel with a critical analysis of the church ... especially seeing as she felt mature enough to distinguish between fact and fiction !!!

but no one challenged her, no one asked her to develop those thoughts .... they just moved on.

And i was left wondering if 'not speaking the truth loudly' was in fact allowing such untruths to become percieved as truth ?!?!

Now, I'm not for starting a campaign or even for holding talks on themes and all that ... but i do wonder how many 'mature adults' will buy into the story told here as true.

As one student said recently 'well its actually easier to believe what Dan Brown is saying than to believe what 'ye' would have us believe' !!!!!
 

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Posted by tammierene (# 11405) on :
 
It could also be said that Christianity expects 'mature adults' to believe the Bible. Goodness knows countless numbers of people have picked it apart in the same way they have The Da Vinci Code. It still seems that a secure Christian will applaud Mr. Brown and be on his way. I think it's great when people stand up in defense of their religious beliefs; someone probably should have reminded the person doing the interview that its a novel of fiction. On the other hand, it seems like people are yelling FIRE where there isnt even any smoke. Then again, on an even brighter side (for Mr. Brown), look at the billions of dollars of free advertising he's getting out of this!! HA!

I wonder if this whole thing has generated Bible sales too.

*Ponder this* Jesus seemed like a pretty peaceful easy going guy. Could he have possibly been married and been that easy going? HA!!!
 

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Posted by Louise (# 30) on :
 
Hi Folks,
we're starting to get some thread overlap here, so I've labelled up a few of the pre-existing threads to make their topics more obvious to newcomers. Can this thread be kept for general discussion of Dan Brown as an author - there are separate threads for the film, and various threads discussing aspects of the book. Despite its title Haven't Read It, Never Will has been the main discussion thread for the book in general. There's now a new thread for the film since its release.

If two threads overlap too much, then one will be closed.


cheers,
Louise

DVC Board Host
 

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Posted by Anselm (# 4499) on :
 

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Originally posted by tammierene:
Dan Brown hasnt changed the Bible. Have you read Mr. Brown's posts to questions on his site? Go to http://www.danbrown.com and click on the FAQs. He never claims anything is fact..as reported, he claims the documents exist that he based the novel on. No biggie, he interpreted or he got an idea for a book.
....
Stephen King throws actual events and such in his books too, but no one jumps him for it. If you put aside trying to believe or not believe or disprove a work of fiction, you may find it is darn good reading. Ive read all of Mr. Brown's books. I enjoyed them all. At no time did I confuse reality with fiction. I feel there is nothing wrong with healthy discussion about possibilities and other points of view. However, if you are deep in the Christian faith and the Da Vinci Code can shake your faith/view....you had issues before the book/movie.

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From my reading of the Q&A section of Dan Brown's website he believes that the book is a work of fiction but he belives the extraordinary theories that lie behind the narrative of the book.

IME the theories that are contained in the novel are being widely believed by people reading the book. I don't think that it is very surprising at all that the church and other organisations feel the need to point out the flaws in the theories laid out in the DVC.

Personally I think it provides a good opportunity to chat about the history of the Christian faith - who would have thought that Church history would become a topic of popular culture!!
 

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Posted by noneen (# 11023) on :
 
I never had an issue with the book as a work of fiction - i lent it to loads of friends, as i do with all my books!). The issue I have is with the hype surrounding the film, and with the number of gullible people who have read the book and now think they know stuff about Templar Knights. (Apparently one in 6 canadians think that the account is historically true, and 60% of people who have read the book believe Mary and Jesus were married!!!)

One of the annoying things about Dan Brown and this work of fiction is that he claims certain untruths to be facts, and that any time anyone challenges any of the 'facts' in his book we get told:
- you're being all defensive
- its only fiction
- dan brown did loads of research and he wears a tweed coat, and his wife is an art historian (i believe that she has an interest in this, but isn't actually qualified in the area!)
In other words, only defensive, argumentative or ignorant people would argue with this. (and none of us want to be taken for defensive, argumentative, ignorant people do we!!! !)

I understand what you're saying tammierene, but i ask you to consider the statements that you've made - namely :

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Ive read all of Mr. Brown's books. I enjoyed them all. At no time did I confuse reality with fiction.

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...if you are deep in the Christian faith and the Da Vinci Code can shake your faith/view.... you had issues before the book/movie.

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It still seems that a secure Christian will applaud Mr. Brown and be on his way.

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IME the theories that are contained in the novel are being widely believed by people reading the book.

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If Dan Brown ever acknowledges that the 'facts' he uses in his work of fiction are actually historically incorrect, then i will happily move on. However, his three point 'statement of fact' at the start of the book says that all artwork, all descriptions etc are true

Now, initially i told myself that that page was part of the fiction, but i am getting increasingly annoyed at the number of people who think the Priory of Sion is real because there are secret papers in a French library which list Newton and Leonardo as old 'heads'!!!! (everyone involved knows the pages are a 1950's fraud - Brown refuses to comment ... cause he's a reclusive genius author y'know!)
 

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Posted by The Great Gumby (# 10989) on :
 
I agree that the figures on what people believe having read the book are very disturbing. I heard some similar ones about Opus Dei, the RCC, etc the other day, comparing the opinions of a group of people who had read the book with a control group who hadn't. It found, IIRC, that those who had read the book were about 4 times more likely to believe that Jesus had married Mary, that the church had deliberately covered this up, etc. Very disturbing.

As you say, though, the problem is one of protesting too much. I've heard calls for the film to be banned in the last few days, which is absolutely ridiculous, except possibly on the grounds of artistic merit. Surely, the best thing we can do is to follow ++Rowan's example, and treat these daft (and, let it be noted, completely unfounded) conspiracy theories with the detached contempt they deserve.

Alternatively, maybe the church should be exploiting this fascination with huge global conspiracies. Has anyone considered writing a novel in the same sort of style as TDVC, telling the gospel narrative of the Roman and Jewish authorities conspiring to have Jesus killed?
 

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Posted by Stumbling Pilgrim (# 7637) on :
 

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Originally posted by noneen:
dan brown did loads of research and he wears a tweed coat, and his wife is an art historian (i believe that she has an interest in this, but isn't actually qualified in the area!)

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(I know it isn't you saying this, noneen)
From reading the judge's statement after the recent court case, it seems that it was actually his wife who did the research, and that said research consisted of reading a few books, including HBHG, making notes and depositing same on his desk as he worked on the novel. The judge made some pointed remarks about what a pity it was that Mrs Brown wasn't present in court to answer questions. And in turn, I can't help thinking what a pity it is most people won't have read the judgement.

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thanks SP - i had heard a lot of that but didn't want to go off tangent on my particular rant !!!! ... but, yep, its true that apparently Dan Brown only has one book on Leonardo de Vinci in his home!!!!!!!!!

I think it says loads about the man that he loudly acknowledges his pride in and love of strong women, while at the same time ... he went into the court case and said 'twas the woman's fault your honour' .... she gave me the apple (i mean the research) ....

Tammy - sorry if i implied that you personally thought negatively of those who argue about the DVC - i meant it in general terms ... that such language can be a straightjacket preventing others from expressing their opinions.

Like the great gumby i have no interest in people who want to organise protests and ban the film (thats madness).
But i also want the freedom to argue that the effects of this book are an increase in ignorance, prejudice and arrognace. The book does everything it claims to dislike IMO!!!

PS - has anyone ever heard of a symboligist ?!?!
 

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Posted by Teufelchen (# 10158) on :
 

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Originally posted by noneen:
PS - has anyone ever heard of a symboligist ?!?!

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I'm sure there's a copy of my symbology vs semiotics rant somewhere on this board.

For the record, it's all a load of symbollocks.

T.
 

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Posted by GrahamR (# 11299) on :
 

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Originally posted by The Great Gumby:
I agree that the figures on what people believe having read the book are very disturbing.

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Scarily, an ORB survey revealed that people who have read The Da Vinci Code are twice as likely to believe that Jesus Christ fathered children, and four times as likely to think the conservative Catholic group Opus Dei is a murderous sect.

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Originally posted by The Great Gumby:
As you say, though, the problem is one of protesting too much.

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Quality refreshments, code-breaking quizzes, documentary footage and intereactive discussions in an informal and relaxed setting.

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Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
And at the denoument, I had identified the answer quite a bit before they had, which makes me wonder just how clever they are.

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Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
To expand this discussion a little, I have just finished one of his other books, Digital Fortress. As it covers areas that I know about, I can judge far better how accurate or otherwise he is.

What struck me is that he obviously hasn't got a clue about what he is writing about there.
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But it was a fair read, as pulp fiction goes. Not good, but OK.
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So, on the basis of 2 books, I am unimpressed by DB as an author. As a hype merchant, he is the best since von Daniken.

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Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
To expand this discussion a little, I have just finished one of his other books, Digital Fortress. As it covers areas that I know about, I can judge far better how accurate or otherwise he is.

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DF is possibly the one book where I was put completely off reading it by the first sentence of the blurb. In a few years if I've just been sacked, I may read it to convince myself how superior I am, but apart from that...

 

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