Ship of Fools: All About Marian Antiphons

Thread: All About Marian Antiphons Board: Ecclesiantics / Ship of Fools.

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Posted by stonespring (# 15530) on :

My first and most important question is what Marian Antiphons should be used on the boundary days between the different parts of the year for each Antiphon (Candlemas, for example).

Next, when exactly are you supposed to pray, sing, etc., the Antiphons? At the end of Compline? At Vespers (at both First and Second Vespers on Sundays and other days with First Vespers)? At Mass? Does the Antiphon of the Season replace the Salve Regina in the Leonine Prayers if they are used? Does it replace or in any way alter the Angelus?

Even if there is a hard Roman Catholic "rule" (or if there used to be) regarding the Marian Antiphons, how does your individual or parish (whether you are RC, Anglo-Catholic, or anything else) use of it differ from whatever that rule may be?

Posted by venbede (# 16669) on :

What boundary days? The old rubrics made it unambiguous when to sing which. Without checking, Alma Redemptoris Mater on Candlemas.

The only official current rubrics are the Roman ones: After Compline and the Regina Caeli restricted to Eastertime. Ave Regina Caelorum optionally for 15 August.

Otherwise any of the other three.

(Since the Easter season ends at Vespers on Pentecost, I suppose Compline that Sunday is without the Regina Caeli.)

Posted by BulldogSacristan (# 11239) on :

What the above said, and if you're an Anglican saying the prayer book offices, you traditionally say or sing them after Evensong since Evensong is an amalgamation of Vespers and Compline.

Here's a more precise listing of when to say what:
• Alma Redemptoris Mater (from Vespers of Saturday before the 1st Sunday in Advent through the second Vespers of February 2)
• Ave Regina Caelorum (from Compline of February 2nd until Compline of Wednesday in Holy Week)
• Regina Coeli (from Compline of Easter Sunday until the Compline of Friday after Pentecost Sunday)
• Salve Regina (from 1st Vespers of the Feast of the Blessed Trinity – which is the Sunday after Pentecost Sunday – until None on Saturday before the 1st Sunday of Advent)

My takeaway from the above is that, if you're an Anglo-Catholic saying Evensong on the evening of Candlemas, you say the Alma Redemptoris Mater. If you are saying Compline on the evening of Candlemas, you would instead say the Ave Regina Caelorum, etc. etc.

Posted by Basilica (# 16965) on :

The traditional division for post-Compline antiphons is as BulldogSacristan has it. My personal use is to sing the antiphon after Compline each day according to that use.

If the antiphon is sung after Mass, it is normally the seasonal one. Where the Angelus is said or sung, it is replaced by the Regina Cæli in Easter all through the day.

On the other occasions where the Salve is said or sung (e.g. the Rosary) it does not typically vary with the seasons.

Posted by stonespring (# 15530) on :

quote:
Originally posted by BulldogSacristan:
What the above said, and if you're an Anglican saying the prayer book offices, you traditionally say or sing them after Evensong since Evensong is an amalgamation of Vespers and Compline.

Here's a more precise listing of when to say what:
• Alma Redemptoris Mater (from Vespers of Saturday before the 1st Sunday in Advent through the second Vespers of February 2)
• Ave Regina Caelorum (from Compline of February 2nd until Compline of Wednesday in Holy Week)
• Regina Coeli (from Compline of Easter Sunday until the Compline of Friday after Pentecost Sunday)
• Salve Regina (from 1st Vespers of the Feast of the Blessed Trinity – which is the Sunday after Pentecost Sunday – until None on Saturday before the 1st Sunday of Advent)

My takeaway from the above is that, if you're an Anglo-Catholic saying Evensong on the evening of Candlemas, you say the Alma Redemptoris Mater. If you are saying Compline on the evening of Candlemas, you would instead say the Ave Regina Caelorum, etc. etc.

Thanks to everyone for your input. A few questions:

-If you do not pray First Vespers on Saturday before the First Sunday in Advent, on Candlemas, or on the Saturday before Trinity Sunday, do you still use the Marian Antiphon at Compline on those same evenings that you would have used had you prayed First Vespers? What if you are a person (not clergy) who, for whatever reason, tends to only pray Compline each night?

-I think you are not supposed to pray Vespers on Holy Thursday, Good Friday, and Holy Saturday if you attend the Mass of the Lord's Supper, Service of the Lord's Passion, and Easter Vigil, but what about Compline on those days? And if you do pray Compline on those days, which Marian Antiphon should you use?

Posted by TomM (# 4618) on :

Based on no authority whatsoever, I'd suggest that during the Paschal Triduum, as part of the traditional simplification of the Office, it would be right and proper to omit any Marian antiphon.

Posted by David Goode (# 9224) on :

Benedictine Daily Prayer 2 has offices for all three days, including Vespers. The rubric suggests omitting Compline on Holy Saturday and Vigils on Easter morning if one is to participate in the Easter Vigil, which makes perfect sense. I cant see any sense in omitting the beautiful office of Vespers on those days.

I think TomM is right about omitting the antiphon. It wouldn't feel right to say or sing it.

As to your first question about the antiphon when omitting First Vespers on days when the antiphons change, I would say two things:

* that the day is the day, whether or not one has marked it as such with a First Vespers, and should take the antiphon of the day; but

* having said that, I wouldn't worry too much about it; bad things won't happen to you if you delay the change by a day.

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