Thread: 'Gaelic Blessing' Board: Ecclesiantics / Ship of Fools.


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Posted by Amos (# 44) on :
 
I expect many people have run into what is known as the Gaelic Blessing, or the Irish Blessing. It's said to be traditional:

May the road rise up to meet you.
May the wind be always at your back.
May the sun shine warm upon your face;
the rains fall soft upon your fields and until we meet again,
may God hold you in the palm of His hand.

Is it traditional though? Where does it come from? When did it first appear? Does anyone actually use it as a blessing?

I've been asked once to use it as the final blessing at a funeral, and once at a school service. Personally, I don't regard it as a blessing and suspect that it has its origins in the 1980s with the Irish Tourist Board, or something of the kind. But I may be wrong.

And then there's the Apache Wedding Blessing, which seems to have been written by a guy named Larry from New Jersey, or someone like that.

Are these folk religion? New Agery? Ersatz? I'd be interested in hearing others' views and experiences, and where other people put their foot down.
 
Posted by Leorning Cniht (# 17564) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Amos:
I expect many people have run into what is known as the Gaelic Blessing, or the Irish Blessing. It's said to be traditional:
Wikipedia on this topic might be correct.

I think it's OK as a blessing. It's a bit blah, but it's OK. For what it's worth, I've heard it as a blessing in a TEC context from time to time. I don't think I've heard it used as a final blessing, but I have heard it used in the context of prayers and blessing of a family who is moving away.

In general, I'm not sure its origins are important. What does it say? If it says what you want to say, does it matter if the Irish Tourist Board said it first?

[ 20. July 2017, 13:51: Message edited by: Leorning Cniht ]
 
Posted by Jengie jon (# 273) on :
 
Yes but that is about a different text. There seems to be some info on this thread on another forum.

Jengie
 
Posted by BroJames (# 9636) on :
 
The "Gaelic Blessing" set to music by John Rutter etc. appears in David Adam's The Edge of Glory where he attributes it to the Iona Community. They describe it as "a traditional Celtic blessing".

The "Irish Blessing"
quote:
“May the road rise to meet you
May the wind be always at your back
May the sun shine warm upon your face
The rains fall soft upon your fields
And until we meet again
May God hold you
In the palm of His hand.”
often also described as 'ancient' and/or 'traditional' is attributed to, and acknowledged by the Rev Dr Richard J Krecjir who,
quote:
In a pinch and no internet then… needed to come up with something … at All Saints Church, Carmel, California, in 1982 for a youth Irish party and dance, evangelism event at The Mission Ranch Restaurant and dance barn in Carmel, Ca. … He took Numbers 6:24 and merged it with a Gaelic "Go n-éiri an bóthar leat," which means may success be with you, also a Celtic blessing…”


[ 20. July 2017, 15:30: Message edited by: BroJames ]
 
Posted by american piskie (# 593) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Amos:


I've been asked once to use it as the final blessing at a funeral,

As we left my mother's funeral, at which her parish minister had done exactly this, one of my brothers asked plaintively whether we hadn't made it clear we wanted a Christian service.


You should have posted this in Another Place.
 
Posted by Anselmina (# 3032) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by american piskie:
quote:
Originally posted by Amos:


I've been asked once to use it as the final blessing at a funeral,

As we left my mother's funeral, at which her parish minister had done exactly this, one of my brothers asked plaintively whether we hadn't made it clear we wanted a Christian service.


You should have posted this in Another Place.
Not that I disagree entirely with you, but what is particularly unChristian about asking God to hold you in the palm of his hand, which is at least scriptural?
 
Posted by MrsBeaky (# 17663) on :
 
My brother had me read this at his wedding at Brecon Cathedral. It was the final prayer during the prayers slot not the final blessing as I am not clergy....
Despite the fact that it is a bit twee, we are half Irish and as we'd nearly lost said brother to cancer it was all rather moving.
My voice cracked on the last line. [Hot and Hormonal]
 
Posted by Og, King of Bashan (# 9562) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by BroJames:
The "Irish Blessing"
quote:
“May the road rise to meet you
May the wind be always at your back
May the sun shine warm upon your face
The rains fall soft upon your fields
And until we meet again
May God hold you
In the palm of His hand.”
often also described as 'ancient' and/or 'traditional' is attributed to, and acknowledged by the Rev Dr Richard J Krecjir who,
quote:
In a pinch and no internet then… needed to come up with something … at All Saints Church, Carmel, California, in 1982 for a youth Irish party and dance, evangelism event at The Mission Ranch Restaurant and dance barn in Carmel, Ca. … He took Numbers 6:24 and merged it with a Gaelic "Go n-éiri an bóthar leat," which means may success be with you, also a Celtic blessing…”
Is there any independent confirmation of this, other than that one Facebook post? I googled "Richard Krecjir Irish Blessing" and came up with one page worth of results, all of which were an identical comment cut and paste into discussions on blog posts about the Irish Blessing.

It could be true, but I've spent a lot of time in bars having beers with people with the gift of the gab, and my bullshit detector is going nuts right now.
 
Posted by Callan (# 525) on :
 
I have been occasionally asked to use this at weddings or funerals. I invariably follow it up with "and the blessing of God Almighty, the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit be upon you and remain with you always. Amen".

There are worse things. I incline to the view that if the rest of the liturgy is basically all right it can't be compromised by a bit of mawkish poetry chosen by the family. People take comfort in all sorts of weird and wonderful things and as long as it's not the lyrics of their favourite track by Cradle of Filth, or some such, I think we can roll with it.

People nowadays are relatively ignorant about Christianity, and I don't think that they can be educated by the clergy wagging the big waggy finger of disapproval.

I mainly object to being mucked around by funeral directors, most of whom are excellent, but some of whom could be poured into their suits if they were any slacker; and the clergy. I once found myself assisting at a funeral where the officiant had agreed that the Bible reading could be substituted by "death is nothing at all". The family don't want a Bible reading, I was assured. I slotted one in anyway, just before the intercessions, and the family didn't bat an eyelid. The clergyman concerned was later sent to prison. The fact that this wasn't taken into consideration when sentence was given has always struck me as being something of a miscarriage of justice.
 
Posted by Amos (# 44) on :
 
Credit where credit's due though. It was written by the Revd Richard Krecjir in 1982 in Carmel, California. Just as the Apache Wedding Blessing is apparently out of a Western novel called 'Blood Brother' by Elliott Arnold. Neither of them is either Irish or Apache.
 
Posted by Anglican_Brat (# 12349) on :
 
Where I am, the Deep Peace blessing is more prevalent in churches, both as a sung piece and as a benediction:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eve2y-P-Zjk

I suspect, both Gaelic blessings would best be described as modern paraphases of Celtic spirituality, which is more nuanced, that its eager proponents would suggest. Most "Celtic" Christian proponents have an axe to grind with Augustine, and see Celtic Christianity as a happy, less sin-obsessed, more nature loving version of medieval Catholicism. Any cursory glance at the Irish Penitentials would pour cold water on such a characterization.
 
Posted by dyfrig (# 15) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Amos:
Neither of them is either Irish or Apache.
That's ok - Adam's stuff isn't really "Celtic" in any meaningful snse of the word.
 
Posted by Og, King of Bashan (# 9562) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Amos:
Credit where credit's due though. It was written by the Revd Richard Krecjir in 1982 in Carmel, California.
No, I was able to confirm with a quick Google search that this story is 100% bullshit.

How do I know? First, we have a 1973 Wayne Newton record, May the Road Rise to Meet You. The chorus is the Irish blessing.

I also found a biography of Faulkner that indicates that his mother wrote him a letter around 1960, saying that she had just seen these words.

I'm sure you can find earlier references, but I'm satisfied. Myth: Busted.
 
Posted by Lamb Chopped (# 5528) on :
 
We had some freaky thing called the Cherokee Prayer at my Dad's funeral. I haven't got a clue where i came from, though I darkly suspect an email multiply forwarded. I had nothing to say to what went into the funeral, which also included kilted bagpipe players and a luau theme (we kids resisted and dressed in ordinary black).

(I am dreadfully suspicious of anything that starts out "O Great Spirit." It seems to me just the sort of mushy-wushy pseudo-spiritual thing that your average dude from New Jersey (or wherever) would add to his own composition to make it sound "Indianish."

FWIW, we are partly Cherokee. But we lost our heritage due to a generation that tried desperately to hide it.
 
Posted by BroJames (# 9636) on :
 
Hmm. Kudos. Clearly right. I wonder why/ how Richard Krecjir comes to claim it? [Paranoid]
 
Posted by Oscar the Grouch (# 1916) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Og, King of Bashan:
quote:
Originally posted by Amos:
Credit where credit's due though. It was written by the Revd Richard Krecjir in 1982 in Carmel, California.
No, I was able to confirm with a quick Google search that this story is 100% bullshit.

How do I know? First, we have a 1973 Wayne Newton record, May the Road Rise to Meet You. The chorus is the Irish blessing.

I also found a biography of Faulkner that indicates that his mother wrote him a letter around 1960, saying that she had just seen these words.

I'm sure you can find earlier references, but I'm satisfied. Myth: Busted.
Also - my first encounter with the blessing came through Noel Paul Stookey (of Peter, Paul and Mary fame). On his 1977 live album "Real to Reel", he closes the concert by singing a version of the blessing.

I don't know exactly how old it is, but it is certainly older than 1977!
 
Posted by Basilica (# 16965) on :
 
I'd say around a quarter of my baptisms include a family member (almost invariably a grandmother) reading the "Gaelic/Irish/Celtic Blessing".

I always include it with the rest of the prayers. The sentiments are perfectly nice, if a little trite, and far better than the "Dear Granny, we're so glad you've gone to Heaven and turned into a star" stuff that I so often hear at funerals...
 
Posted by Og, King of Bashan (# 9562) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by BroJames:
Hmm. Kudos. Clearly right. I wonder why/ how Richard Krecjir comes to claim it? [Paranoid]
Gift of the gab, as they say. Probably started as a joke, but got out of hand. When I was a tour guide, we had a guy on staff who was infamous for making crap up off the cuff and passing it out as good history. The joke was that one day, he decided that his tour was too dull, and added one fib to spice things up. By the end of the day, he had forgotten that it was a fib rather than a regular part of the tour, and he would feel the need to add a new fib. Multiply that by five years on the job, and you have one heck of a tour.
 
Posted by Cottontail (# 12234) on :
 
I was at an ordination service once, where the person leading worship had been called in at the last minute, and was therefore somewhat unprepared. She decided to ad lib the Irish Blessing at the end, but it came out thusly:
quote:
May the road rise to meet you,
and the sun shine on your fields;
May the wind be always in your face
and the rain fall on your back ...
Thus delivering what was effectively a parting curse. [Devil]
 
Posted by Nick Tamen (# 15164) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by BroJames:
Hmm. Kudos. Clearly right. I wonder why/ how Richard Krecjir comes to claim it? [Paranoid]
Given that both you and Amos, the other person to cite the story, spelled his name "Krecjir," as did the link you posted, but a little googling showed that his name is "Krejcir", I wonder whether he ever actually made the claim.
 
Posted by Og, King of Bashan (# 9562) on :
 
Only one way to find out. Some California based shipmate is going to have to mystery worship his place, misquote the Blessing to him, and see how he reacts.
 
Posted by Gee D (# 13815) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by BroJames:
Hmm. Kudos. Clearly right. I wonder why/ how Richard Krecjir comes to claim it? [Paranoid]
Because he's one of the O'Krecjir's of County Offaly.
 
Posted by BroJames (# 9636) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Nick Tamen:
quote:
Originally posted by BroJames:
Hmm. Kudos. Clearly right. I wonder why/ how Richard Krecjir comes to claim it? [Paranoid]
Given that both you and Amos, the other person to cite the story, spelled his name "Krecjir," as did the link you posted, but a little googling showed that his name is "Krejcir", I wonder whether he ever actually made the claim.
No, that's my fault. Finger dyslexia (i.e. not typing letters in the right order) and a failure properly to remember how to spell a name I don't know how to say. [Frown]

[ 21. July 2017, 05:51: Message edited by: BroJames ]
 
Posted by mr cheesy (# 3330) on :
 
It definitely existed before the 1980s, but so far I've only found books which contain it dating from the 1970s.
 
Posted by Galloping Granny (# 13814) on :
 
I know a woman cleric who always uses the 'Deep peace' thing.
Unfortunately if there was an elocution segment when she trained she didn't absorb any of it. She declaims it as 'Deepeace of the running wave....etc' I know her well enough to have once tried to get her to emphasise the 'deep' – well, someone has chosen to use an original expression, and I can feel the intention of the choice of word. But she didn't know what I was talking about. So we're stuck with 'Deepeace'.

GG
 
Posted by Honest Ron Bacardi (# 38) on :
 
"Da peace o' da runnin' wave innit..."

Rutter's musical version is a modestly popular request for weddings, though I have never come across it in funerals or baptisms as Wikipedia asserts. Probably a local custom difference. The piece is usually referred to as The Garlic Blessing by choir members who have a low tolerance for mawkishness.
 
Posted by dj_ordinaire (# 4643) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Gee D:
quote:
Originally posted by BroJames:
Hmm. Kudos. Clearly right. I wonder why/ how Richard Krecjir comes to claim it? [Paranoid]
Because he's one of the O'Krecjir's of County Offaly.
Well, if Barack Obama is from Offaly I don;t see whyRichard Krejcir can't be... (seriously - he even has a Plaza named after him in Moneygall...).
 
Posted by BroJames (# 9636) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by mr cheesy:
It definitely existed before the 1980s, but so far I've only found books which contain it dating from the 1970s.
Substantial elements of it are quoted in William Faulkner and Southern History by Joel Williamson as having been sent to Faulkner by his mother in 1960 or earlier.
 
Posted by mark_in_manchester (# 15978) on :
 
I thought I ought to look this up, but I see it only dates to 1986.

Still, maybe it would do for the recessional.
 
Posted by Gee D (# 13815) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by dj_ordinaire:
quote:
Originally posted by Gee D:
quote:
Originally posted by BroJames:
Hmm. Kudos. Clearly right. I wonder why/ how Richard Krecjir comes to claim it? [Paranoid]
Because he's one of the O'Krecjir's of County Offaly.
Well, if Barack Obama is from Offaly I don;t see whyRichard Krejcir can't be... (seriously - he even has a Plaza named after him in Moneygall...).
I was also relying upon the said name rather than the written.
 
Posted by Amos (# 44) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Galloping Granny:
I know a woman cleric who always uses the 'Deep peace' thing.
Unfortunately if there was an elocution segment when she trained she didn't absorb any of it. She declaims it as 'Deepeace of the running wave....etc' I know her well enough to have once tried to get her to emphasise the 'deep' – well, someone has chosen to use an original expression, and I can feel the intention of the choice of word. But she didn't know what I was talking about. So we're stuck with 'Deepeace'.

GG
I've heard children warned not to say 'Deep heat.'
 
Posted by fletcher christian (# 13919) on :
 
A very similar form of it does exist in old Irish, the use of which I have a feeling died out before the 1980's. Did it make an appearance in Carmichael's Carmina Gadelica?
 
Posted by Oblatus (# 6278) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Honest Ron Bacardi:
"Da peace o' da runnin' wave innit..."

Rutter's musical version is a modestly popular request for weddings, though I have never come across it in funerals or baptisms as Wikipedia asserts. Probably a local custom difference. The piece is usually referred to as The Garlic Blessing by choir members who have a low tolerance for mawkishness.
I heard Rutter himself acknowledge that the choirboy's version is "A Garlic Dressing."
 
Posted by ExclamationMark (# 14715) on :
 
It seems to have appeared in the revival of so called "Celtic" worship about 20 years ago ("God bless my little cow and all that").

It may say something but not in the way I want to say it, so I don't use it.

As for anything by John Rutter .... I was put off by his setting for Communion back in the 1970's. Yuk.
 
Posted by venbede (# 16669) on :
 
Why does "Celtic spirituality " never mean the Free Presbyterian Church of Ulster?
 
Posted by Jengie jon (# 273) on :
 
Two answers both of which contribute based on Scotland. First, it almost was at one stage. If I recall Ian Bradley correctly the 'Celtic revival' in Scotland in the late 19th Century saw Columba as a good Presbyterian Boyo.

Secondly, Alexander Carmichael the compiler of the Carmina Gadilica deliberately repudiated his Presbyterian upbringing in favour of the Catholicism in the Western Isles* which led to a perception of the tradition only going through the Roman Catholic lineage.

Jengie

*I think this is Scottish Roman Catholicism which even in the late twentieth century had subtle differences of form from Irish Roman Catholicism. I presume down to milieux.
 
Posted by Arethosemyfeet (# 17047) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by venbede:
Why does "Celtic spirituality " never mean the Free Presbyterian Church of Ulster?
Ulster Protestantism has its origin in the lowlands, and hence is culturally Anglo-Saxon rather than Celtic. Or because Calvin wasn't a celt. Take your pick [Biased] .
 
Posted by Callan (# 525) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Galloping Granny:
I know a woman cleric who always uses the 'Deep peace' thing.
Unfortunately if there was an elocution segment when she trained she didn't absorb any of it. She declaims it as 'Deepeace of the running wave....etc' I know her well enough to have once tried to get her to emphasise the 'deep' – well, someone has chosen to use an original expression, and I can feel the intention of the choice of word. But she didn't know what I was talking about. So we're stuck with 'Deepeace'.

GG
Play Electric Six at her until she starts saying "Deep-ah Peace-ah"

Originally posted by Arethosemyfeet:

quote:
Ulster Protestantism has its origin in the lowlands, and hence is culturally Anglo-Saxon rather than Celtic. Or because Calvin wasn't a celt. Take your pick
Calvin was deffo a Celt. He was French. Didn't De Gaulle talk about "nos ancestries les gaulois"?
 
Posted by Jengie jon (# 273) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Arethosemyfeet:
quote:
Originally posted by venbede:
Why does "Celtic spirituality " never mean the Free Presbyterian Church of Ulster?
Ulster Protestantism has its origin in the lowlands, and hence is culturally Anglo-Saxon rather than Celtic. Or because Calvin wasn't a celt. Take your pick [Biased] .
Not at all sure. Gaelic speak was the common language right down to the Rhins of Galloway. On the Western seaboard, it becomes difficult to make the distinction between Highland and Lowland.

Jengie
 
Posted by venbede (# 16669) on :
 
In my reference to the Free Prebyterians I was trying to make the same point as ken would with more elegance and force, namely that celtic spirituality includes things like Cornish Methodism, Welsh revivalism and the Wee Frees. I mentioned the Free Presbyterians because they seemed as far removed as possible from the usual twee celticism.

Do you mean the Scottish lowlands? I wouldn’t fancy my chances in the back streets of Glasgow saying Robert Burns was an Anglo Saxon.
 
Posted by Og, King of Bashan (# 9562) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by ExclamationMark:
As for anything by John Rutter .... I was put off by his setting for Communion back in the 1970's. Yuk.
Rutter sucks? Just the kind of bold hot original take that I come to the ship for.

[Biased]
 
Posted by fletcher christian (# 13919) on :
 
Posted by venebede:
quote:

In my reference to the Free Prebyterians I was trying to make the same point as ken would with more elegance and force, namely that celtic spirituality includes things like Cornish Methodism, Welsh revivalism and the Wee Frees. I mentioned the Free Presbyterians because they seemed as far removed as possible from the usual twee celticism.
The Free Presbyterian Church of Ulster was founded by Ian Paisley and he spent considerable effort trying to mould aspects of 'Celtic Christianity' to his cause, but the problem is that his aim was to remove the 'Celtic' aspect and 'hyper-Calvinise' everything mixed in with a heady dose of politics, separatism and sectarianism. Despite the distance between the Free P's and what we might recognise as Christianity today or in the 'Celtic' era, there are similarities that can be drawn; such as the sober lifestyle, the strict ethical lines and the rejection of materialism. It's much harder to draw parallels theologically.

I do quite like Bradley - mostly because you can plot his changing direction of thought throughout his books, and he isn't ashamed of changing his mind, which I find rather refreshing. His broad overviews are very good, if somewhat dense, but there are very considerable gaps in knowledge. He is particularly poor on Irish Christianity for instance. A much better place to start is James Mackey's collation of essays by different scholars under the title of 'An Introduction To Celtic Christianity'; hard to find, but worth the effort.

I haven't found the Gaelic blessing in Carmichael - perhaps it isn't there at all - but I suspect it may be in some form. I know there is an altered form in old Irish in Hyde's 'Religious Spngs of Connaught' but as yet I haven't been able to locate it. Anyway, the joke in Ireland is that the wind at your back should always be your own.
 
Posted by Arethosemyfeet (# 17047) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by venbede:

Do you mean the Scottish lowlands? I wouldn’t fancy my chances in the back streets of Glasgow saying Robert Burns was an Anglo Saxon.
I wouldn't fancy my chances saying anything very much on the back streets of Glasgow, but Burns wrote predominantly in Scots, which is a descendant of Anglo-Saxon rather than Gaelic.
 
Posted by Jengie jon (# 273) on :
 
The tides and flows of people, language and power in South West Scotland have resulted in a complex and different history from anywhere else in the British Isles. Anywhere which can both have been part of Gaeldom and Northumbria deserves respect.


Jengie
 
Posted by wild haggis (# 15555) on :
 
Interesting this thread, reading some of the rubbish that there is, especially about Celtic Christianity. Wouldn't it be nice to have some real Celts contributing?

I think I qualify: being Scottish with some Irish blood and now living in Wales!!!!

Firstly, don't believe everything you read on Google! It can be useful but take much with a pinch of salt, in your porridge.

There are 2 different prayers being talked about here. "The Deep Water" one which I had never really heard until I attended an Iona service in the 1990s and then sang the Rutter version in a choir in 2000s. But that's not to say it might be older.

That is different blessing from "The Road rise to met you" prayer.

I remember being given an Irish linen cushion cover to embroider, from my Irish uncle in the late 1950s with that Irish Blessing on it:- the road rise to meet you one. He told me that it was a very old Irish prayer, that some thought it came from the monks of Glendalough but he didn't think so. But it was exceedingly old.

Certainly not from 1970s (they hadn't been invented then) or an American (not Celtic by any stretch of the imagination!). My uncle came from a village just outside Derry. My other ancestors came from around Ballymena. The other side of my family is firmly Scottish.

I once attended Ian Paisely's church, out of curiousity, in 1970s, and there was nothing whatsoever Celtic in it. Very, very Calvinist in the extreme - and political too. But that was a long time ago.

As to Robert Burns being Anglo Saxon....awa an bile yir heed and then eat yir big bunnet ye sassenach!

Language is constantly changing and adapting. Look at English now and the amount of Americanisms and Aussie terms we now have. You would never understand proper Anglo-Saxon (try reading Beowolf in the original). Language is not static. I'm trying to learn Welsh at the moment - whew! I'll get there.

In Scotland we have: Gaelic, the language of the Highlands and Islands (Sottish Gaelic is related to Irish. Welsh, a Cetic language, is related to Cornish and Breton. I had a lecturer at the Uni of Lisbon who was trying to record Portuguese Celtic in Tras os Montes before it disappeared for good. Celts get everywhere!) Doric is an amalgum language (most English or Americans would be flumoxed) of the NE of Scotland and Lalands/Scots is the language of the lowlands and then of course we have Parliamo Glasga (an example which can be red above).

Can I suggest that you read some of Burns poems in Scots such as "To the Haggis" and see how much you understand? Strictly speaking not a Celtic language but not Anglo Saxon either. "The Cotters Saturday Night" is part in Scots and part in English. How many of you have actually read Bur's poms. You sing "Auld Lang syne" but the original words you would probably not understand.

Please don't make nasty comments about Glasgow. It is now one of the most vibrant cities in Europe with high culture in opera, dance, theatre and music to better anywhere. And it's cheaper than London! Visit it before you make rude comments. Sure there are deprived areas but there are deprived areas everywhere today.

By the way there is a resurgence of "Scots" (old lalands) being revived today in Scotland. Children get it in Scottish schools and you can buy books written in it from "The Gruffalo" to Harry Potter (I think I'm right, can be corrected if I'm wrong on Harry).

There is a lot of rubbish out there that calls itself Celtic Christianity and most certainly has nothing to do with the Celtic lands.

Celtic Christianity is not cosy with nice wee poems. It's a robust form of Christianity seated deep within day to day life of working in our world communicating with God through marked prayer times and then spending times away in contemplation before returning to the world that needs God in ways it can understand.

Try out Iona Community or Northumbria Fellowship to see what the modern day inheritors of Celtic Christianity are really about.

And may the road rise to meet you (means it is easier to make long journeys if the road comes to you). Why not come and visit our Celtic lands and meet real Celtic Christians there?
 
Posted by Baptist Trainfan (# 15128) on :
 
I can never quite work out the "May the Road rise to met you" prayer - I much prefer walking along roads that gently slope downhill.
 
Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on :
 
Ahem. Wild Haggis has just neatly explained that phrase for you.

[Razz]

IJ
 
Posted by Baptist Trainfan (# 15128) on :
 
I really ought to have read her post properly! [Hot and Hormonal]
 
Posted by Enoch (# 14322) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Jengie jon:
Not at all sure. Gaelic speak was the common language right down to the Rhins of Galloway. On the Western seaboard, it becomes difficult to make the distinction between Highland and Lowland.
Jengie, are you sure of that? I've a recollection of having been told somewhere that before the South West of Scotland spoke Scots, it spoke a P Celtic language, i.e. Welsh related rather than Gaelic related.


More generally, I'd agree with anyone who says that the all fey, pentatonic and girl singers with flowing hair and long dresses style truly represents a Celtic truth that we have all lost, is talking twaddle, unless they have room in their vision for the austerities of pre-Vatican II Irish Catholicism, the hwyl of the Welsh Revivals and the Gaelic speaking denominations of Lewis.

Besides, has anyone who goes on about Celtic Christianity remembered that the first Celtic Christians we can know anything about are the people to whom St Paul wrote his Epistle to the Galatians?
 
Posted by Jengie jon (# 273) on :
 
Firstly I had a local friend from the Rhins who talked about the last Gaelic speaker who I think died around when her Grandmother's generation were children (WW I). This is local as in family has lived in the area for 400 years. Secondly, when checking yesterday I came across the map of Gaelic speakers in 1400 on this page.

Jengie

[ 30. July 2017, 14:58: Message edited by: Jengie jon ]
 
Posted by Nick Tamen (# 15164) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by wild haggis:
As to Robert Burns being Anglo Saxon....awa an bile yir heed and then eat yir big bunnet ye sassenach!

Language is constantly changing and adapting. Look at English now and the amount of Americanisms and Aussie terms we now have. You would never understand proper Anglo-Saxon (try reading Beowolf in the original). Language is not static.
All true, but the point, I think, was simply that Scots is a Germanic, and specifically Anglo-Saxon, language. It developed out of Northumbrian Old English, with heavier doses of Norse and Gaelic and much lighter influence of Norman French than that of English to the south.

Meanwhile, while I appreciate all that you said, some of us do understand what the original words to "Auld Lang Syne" mean. And some of us have slogged through "Beowulf" in Old English. ”The Dream of the Rood," too. [Biased]
 
Posted by Albertus (# 13356) on :
 
And here we are, from that page Jengie cited, on the question of 'Welsh' or 'Gaelic' in SW Scotland:
quote:
With the domination of the Picts by the Scots in the 800s, Scottish Gaelic replaced Pictish across a large part of Scotland, and it subsequently replaced the Cumbric spoken by the residents of the Kingdom of Strathclyde when they, too, became dominated by their Scottish Gaelic-speaking neighbours.
Any Welsh speaker will recognise Strathclyde as Ystrad Clud very easily!

[ 30. July 2017, 21:51: Message edited by: Albertus ]
 


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