Thread: Limbo moments in the Church Year's calendar? Board: Ecclesiantics / Ship of Fools.


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Posted by Late Quartet (# 1207) on :
 
Are there any limbo moments in church calendars: I imagine there isn't really any limbo, more that it's that I've never found out?

I just found a kind-of 'limbo moment' in the CofE calendar; i.e. I didn't know about it before today, for CofE Common Worship at least: between Candlemas and the subsequent Sunday the Collect/s and Post Communion for the Fifth Sunday before Lent are to be used.

I started wondering about different moments, like the the 3 days between Ash Wednesday and the first Sunday of Lent, I don't know what happens, is it the Ash Wednesday Collect/s and Post Communion?

I also was wondering a few weeks back about the non-limbo of when the fourth Sunday of Advent is also Christmas Eve; at what point do you, ideally, switch from one Collect to the other, at sunset was my personal preference, but perhaps there's a tighter rule than that?

There's no limbo for 'Weekdays after Pentecost' that gets its own thing, but after Ascension in Common Worship it doesn't spell out whether to use that prayer for the following 3 days? I only know that the prayer for the 6th Sunday after Easter says 'not used after Ascension Day'.

[ 16. January 2018, 15:43: Message edited by: Late Quartet ]
 
Posted by Nick Tamen (# 15164) on :
 
I’m not sure what you mean by “limbo moments.” Can you flesh it out a little?
 
Posted by mr cheesy (# 3330) on :
 
Presumably it means times that are between church seasons.
 
Posted by Late Quartet (# 1207) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Nick Tamen:
I’m not sure what you mean by “limbo moments.” Can you flesh it out a little?

Yes, hard to explain, I'd describe it as a slightly ambiguous gap between one day in the calendar and the next:

e.g. between Candlemas and the next Sunday there's a rubric for a set of Collects that nearly fall off the end of the list—the fifth Sunday before Lent—even though those days after Candlemas are not in the week that is the fifth Sunday before Lent. If you are like me you have to go and look for the rubric for that week's Collect to find this out for the very first time, hence me describing it as a limbo moment in the Church Year calendar.
 
Posted by Pigwidgeon (# 10192) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Nick Tamen:
I’m not sure what you mean by “limbo moments.” Can you flesh it out a little?

It's those special days when the congregation has to bend over backwards and dance under a horizontal pole.
[Biased]
 
Posted by Ecclesiastical Flip-flop (# 10745) on :
 
May not be exactly a limbo moment and I was very conscious of Advent IV and Christmas Eve being two days rolled into one at the end of this past year.

But this year, with Candlemas on 2nd February, followed closely by Ash Wednesday on 14 February, has only a 12 day gap to change the 'mood' of the Church's seasons. Those of the traditionalists used to keeping up with the 'gesima Sundays' are experiencing quite an overlap!
 
Posted by Jengie jon (# 273) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Pigwidgeon:
quote:
Originally posted by Nick Tamen:
I’m not sure what you mean by “limbo moments.” Can you flesh it out a little?

It's those special days when the congregation has to bend over backwards and dance under a horizontal pole.
[Biased]

I believe in certain URCs then that is St Andrew's day.

We have certain churches called St Andrews where the current congregation is mainly of Carribean extraction. They kept the party but changed how it was celebrated.

Jengie
 
Posted by Nick Tamen (# 15164) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Pigwidgeon:
quote:
Originally posted by Nick Tamen:
I’m not sure what you mean by “limbo moments.” Can you flesh it out a little?

It's those special days when the congregation has to bend over backwards and dance under a horizontal pole.
[Biased]

Ah, would that it were. That I might be able to help with. But being Presbyterian means having a somewhat simpler and more straightforward liturgical calendar—we did have to navigate Advent IV and Christmas Eve this year, but no Candlemas or gesimas to worry with—so the kind of “limbo moments” described by Late Quartet really aren’t an issue for us. We’re just in Ordinary Time until Ash Wednesday.
 
Posted by L'organist (# 17338) on :
 
The "gap" between Candlemas and the first Sunday in Lent are where you have Septuagesima, Sexagesima and Quinquagesima. If Easter is really late then you have Candlemas on the proper day but the sundays are still officially Sundays after the Epiphany.

Now I realise that some may not order their church year as in the BCP but for those of us who do, that is the schedule - so no gap.
 
Posted by Albertus (# 13356) on :
 
Yes. Some may find the BCP not sufficiently varied for their liking, but in matters like this it is helpfully straightforward. I've never much cared for what I think of as the fiddly bits that later calendars seem to impose.

Advent
(Christmas)
Sundays after Christmas
(Epiphany)
Sundays after Epiphany
Septua-, Sexa-, and Quinquagesima
Sundays in Lent
Easter
Sundays after Easter
(Ascension Day)
Sunday after Ascension Day
Whitsunday
Trinity Sunday
Then lots of Sundays after Trinity until you start Advent again.

Simples!
 
Posted by Chorister (# 473) on :
 
Green Time.
 
Posted by Ricardus (# 8757) on :
 
Not really limbo, but there is an oddity in the BCP in that if the person leading Evensong is not a priest, then, instead of the long absolution ('who desireth not the death of a sinner, but rather that he should turn from his wickedness and live' etc), that person is directed to read the Collect for the 21st Sunday after Trinity. Presumably if it actually is the 21st Sunday after Trinity, then you get that same Collect twice.
 
Posted by Ecclesiastical Flip-flop (# 10745) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Ricardus:
Not really limbo, but there is an oddity in the BCP in that if the person leading Evensong is not a priest, then, instead of the long absolution ('who desireth not the death of a sinner, but rather that he should turn from his wickedness and live' etc), that person is directed to read the Collect for the 21st Sunday after Trinity. Presumably if it actually is the 21st Sunday after Trinity, then you get that same Collect twice.

Should it occur, there is always the collect for Ash Wednesday to fall back upon. Many years ago, I rember an instance when said collect was used by a lay officiant in place of the absolution at Morning or Evening Prayer.
 
Posted by Enoch (# 14322) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Ricardus:
Not really limbo, but there is an oddity in the BCP in that if the person leading Evensong is not a priest, then, instead of the long absolution ('who desireth not the death of a sinner, but rather that he should turn from his wickedness and live' etc), that person is directed to read the Collect for the 21st Sunday after Trinity. Presumably if it actually is the 21st Sunday after Trinity, then you get that same Collect twice.

I can see the oddity should it involve duplication, but there's no oddity at all about why the collect should be used rather than the normal absolution.

[ 17. January 2018, 18:35: Message edited by: Enoch ]
 
Posted by Ricardus (# 8757) on :
 
Yes - it's the oddity of the duplication that I was getting at, but I didn't express it very well.

That said, I have heard lay readers read the absolution - more out of a failure to spot the rubric (which confusingly is given afterwards rather than deliberate disobedience - and I'm still not sure how 'naughty' that is; as far as I can see the absolution does not actually declare at any point that the speaker is absolving anyone.
 
Posted by keibat (# 5287) on :
 
Shame on Readers who don't realize they are not authorized to pronounce absolution.

*Is outrage!* – Well, no, not really, is unprofessional.

À propos limbos, interstitials, etc, my wife and I have both the C of E Daily Office app and the Lectionary app, and use them regularly. The Lectionary app frequently offers you choices, usually dependent on whether you've kept the Festival of the Epiphany, for example, on 6 Jan or shifted it to the following Sunday.
The Daily Prayer app, on the other hand, makes those choices for you, so perhaps reflects the prevailing expectation among ... well, I'm not sure: perhaps just among the software geeks who wrote the app.
 
Posted by Enoch (# 14322) on :
 
Although the App is excellent, personally I'd recommend also splashing out the money each autumn to buy the maroon coloured lectionary for the forthcoming year.

Although it has its irritants (see Leo's recent gripe), if you're CofE, once you have it, you never need to agonise about any of these vexations again. You are entitled to follow it. Where it gives you a choice, you are entitled to exercise that choice. And that's it. Problem solved.

Likewise whatever ecclesial community you belong to. If it publishes a lectionary, buy it, follow it. It's your discipline. Don't be looking over your shoulder worrying whether you should be doing something else. You shouldn't.

[ 17. January 2018, 21:42: Message edited by: Enoch ]
 
Posted by Jengie jon (# 273) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by keibat:
The Daily Prayer app, on the other hand, makes those choices for you, so perhaps reflects the prevailing expectation among ... well, I'm not sure: perhaps just among the software geeks who wrote the app.

I can tell you the difference. The daily prayer is partially aimed at private devotion. While if you are leading a regular act of worship you might well want to make changes, when I pick up an app for my daily prayer I am relying on it to lead me rather than wanting to fuss precisely over what I should read.

This is especially true as I use it on the dates when I do not have time to use my own personal office which is lot more involved. What time I want to spend time talking with God rather than deciding what to say.

Jengie

[ 18. January 2018, 07:37: Message edited by: Jengie jon ]
 
Posted by BroJames (# 9636) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by keibat:
The Daily Prayer app, on the other hand, makes those choices for you, so perhaps reflects the prevailing expectation among ... well, I'm not sure: perhaps just among the software geeks who wrote the app.

Actually I am reasonably confident that some of those involved were liturgy geeks as well.
 


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